Analysis: Hunter's rise on Denver's defense coincides with Moss' fall

[Denver Native (Carol)]

http://www.denverpost.com/broncos/ci_16014864?source=rss

When the Broncos' starting defense lined up for practice Tuesday, newcomer Jason Hunter was at the weakside outside linebacker position — the position star pass rusher Elvis Dumervil usually plays.

Dumervil led the NFL in sacks last season with 17. But when he suffered a season-ending chest injury early in training camp, the Broncos spent the remainder of the preseason trying to figure out the best way to fill that hole in their defense.

Jarvis Moss, a first-round pick in the 2007 draft, was first in line. But he fractured a bone in his left hand and seemed to lose his momentum. He got pushed down inside a few times playing against the run during Denver's last two preseason games.

Hunter's rapid rise to the No. 1 defense in the short time since he was signed off waivers Aug. 19 is because of his performance and the gap between Dumervil and the players behind him.

Hunter was released by the Lions. Coach Jim Schwartz said he didn't have room for Hunter at defensive end in Detroit's revamped line, but he called Hunter "a really tough guy."

After arriving at Broncos headquarters, Hunter went about the business of making the team. He practiced hard from the start, played through the inevitable mistakes, showed some flashes in games and moved up the Denver depth chart.

In the balanced world of the NFL, one player's triumph is another's stumble, and this was a lost opportunity for Moss to strengthen his status.

Immediately after Dumervil suffered his injury in camp, some teammates said this was Moss' opportunity to get his career going. But Moss' hand injury came at the worst time. He had to miss about a week's worth of practices.

Moss will continue to battle for playing time. If he's serious about a career in the NFL, that's his best option. But for a former Florida star who was the overall 17th pick of the 2007 draft, it's another major hurdle.

Coach Josh McDaniels has said "other players" will play in relief of Hunter from time to time, that Hunter hasn't been with the Broncos long enough or shown enough in regular-season games to stay on the field in every down-and-distance situation.

Moss will be among those other players. But that's a long way from what he hoped his 2010 season could be.

[Lonestar]

http://www.denverpost.com/broncos/ci_16014864?source=rss

When the Broncos' starting defense lined up for practice Tuesday, newcomer Jason Hunter was at the weakside outside linebacker position — the position star pass rusher Elvis Dumervil usually plays.

Dumervil led the NFL in sacks last season with 17. But when he suffered a season-ending chest injury early in training camp, the Broncos spent the remainder of the preseason trying to figure out the best way to fill that hole in their defense.

Jarvis Moss, a first-round pick in the 2007 draft, was first in line. But he fractured a bone in his left hand and seemed to lose his momentum. He got pushed down inside a few times playing against the run during Denver's last two preseason games.

Hunter's rapid rise to the No. 1 defense in the short time since he was signed off waivers Aug. 19 is because of his performance and the gap between Dumervil and the players behind him.

Hunter was released by the Lions. Coach Jim Schwartz said he didn't have room for Hunter at defensive end in Detroit's revamped line, but he called Hunter "a really tough guy."

After arriving at Broncos headquarters, Hunter went about the business of making the team. He practiced hard from the start, played through the inevitable mistakes, showed some flashes in games and moved up the Denver depth chart.

In the balanced world of the NFL, one player's triumph is another's stumble, and this was a lost opportunity for Moss to strengthen his status.

Immediately after Dumervil suffered his injury in camp, some teammates said this was Moss' opportunity to get his career going. But Moss' hand injury came at the worst time. He had to miss about a week's worth of practices.

Moss will continue to battle for playing time. If he's serious about a career in the NFL, that's his best option. But for a former Florida star who was the overall 17th pick of the 2007 draft, it's another major hurdle.

Coach Josh McDaniels has said "other players" will play in relief of Hunter from time to time, that Hunter hasn't been with the Broncos long enough or shown enough in regular-season games to stay on the field in every down-and-distance situation.

Moss will be among those other players. But that's a long way from what he hoped his 2010 season could be.


Not looking very good for the overall 17th pick of the 2007 draft,

Lets hope he gets his act together and starts earning a pay check.

As for the newbie welcome aboard kick some ass.

[Bosco]

My guess: Hunter is the starter because he's bigger, stronger, and can hold up to the run better, while Moss will get plenty of playing time, mainly on passing downs.

[Buff]

I refuse to believe that a guy who never played OLB in his life prior to 2 weeks ago is our best option at OLB. Not good.

[bcbronc]

I refuse to believe that a guy who never played OLB in his life prior to 2 weeks ago is our best option at OLB. Not good.

imo he's in there to help stop the run. for a guy just learning the position, he looked pretty good vs scrubs.

I was happy enough with what I saw of Moss as well, considering where my expectations were at. he's not an every down OLB by any stretch, but if he can generate some pressure on passing downs it will be a big plus.

[sneakers]

Not looking very good for the overall 17th pick of the 2007 draft,

Lets hope he gets his act together and starts earning a pay check.

As for the newbie welcome aboard kick some ass.

Looking a lot better than the 1st pick of the 2007 draft.

[Buff]

imo he's in there to help stop the run. for a guy just learning the position, he looked pretty good vs scrubs.

I was happy enough with what I saw of Moss as well, considering where my expectations were at. he's not an every down OLB by any stretch, but if he can generate some pressure on passing downs it will be a big plus.

Yeah, I'm sure that's the thinking... But it reeks of desperation to me. The guy has never played OLB and we're ready to thrust him into a starting role after 2 weeks of practice? That's crazy.

It reminds me of when we played Calvin Lowry and Vernon Fox and any guy with a pulse at safety a couple of years... And we know how well that worked out.

Or when we brought in Ty Law off the streets to play nickel back when he had always played on the outside.

I'd feel a lot better if Andra Davis or Ayodelle were still on the roster and we shifted Haggan outside. While they aren't world beaters, at least they've played the position before.

[Bosco]

I refuse to believe that a guy who never played OLB in his life prior to 2 weeks ago is our best option at OLB. Not good.

Elvis Dumervil anyone?

[bcbronc]

Yeah, I'm sure that's the thinking... But it reeks of desperation to me. The guy has never played OLB and we're ready to thrust him into a starting role after 2 weeks of practice? That's crazy.

ya, losing Dumervil wasn't in the game plan.


It reminds me of when we played Calvin Lowry and Vernon Fox and any guy with a pulse at safety a couple of years... And we know how well that worked out.

please don't say that.


Or when we brought in Ty Law off the streets to play nickel back when he had always played on the outside.

I'd feel a lot better if Andra Davis or Ayodelle were still on the roster and we shifted Haggan outside. While they aren't world beaters, at least they've played the position before.

meh, Ayodelle didn't bring anything and Davis is what he is. I think Haggan can be a better ILB than either, and at least Hunter has some upside, unlike Davis.

[honz]

I refuse to believe that a guy who never played OLB in his life prior to 2 weeks ago is our best option at OLB. Not good.
I imagine he won't be asked to do too much in pass coverage, especially early on. DJ, Davis, and Woodyard seemed to be our designated coverage LB's last year and Doom and Ayers were asked to do very little in that regard. It seems we line up one of our OLB's on the line most of the time anyways. Our LB depth is probably the biggest concern roster wise though, no doubt.

[Ziggy]

The main priority this offseason on defense was said to be improving the run D. Justin Bannan, Jamal Williams and now Hunter bring some beef and power. I still expect to see Moss on most obvious passing downs, but he's just too much of a liability in the run game,.

[TimTebow15MVP]

hunter has shown his potential standing up. big strong physical fast LB. Moss will still play though lets not kid ourselves and act like moss didnt show improvements this off season. But this is a beefy front 7 with williams, mcbean, bannan, and then your OLBers are both 270 big strong and can run, haggans in the middle at 265 big strong and fast. its gonna be hard to run on this team this year.

[TimTebow15MVP]

Yeah, I'm sure that's the thinking... But it reeks of desperation to me. The guy has never played OLB and we're ready to thrust him into a starting role after 2 weeks of practice? That's crazy.

It reminds me of when we played Calvin Lowry and Vernon Fox and any guy with a pulse at safety a couple of years... And we know how well that worked out.

Or when we brought in Ty Law off the streets to play nickel back when he had always played on the outside.

I'd feel a lot better if Andra Davis or Ayodelle were still on the roster and we shifted Haggan outside. While they aren't world beaters, at least they've played the position before.

Haggans is a BEAST in the middle. Mcdaniels fondled with haggans at OLB for one game this pre season and quicky moved him back inside as he released akinyole. this defense is better with haggans in the middle rather than him rushing the passer every play from the edge.

[arapaho2]

I refuse to believe that a guy who never played OLB in his life prior to 2 weeks ago is our best option at OLB. Not good.

doom never really played OLB in a 3-4 prior to last year either..that worked out pretty well

[Lonestar]

Elvis Dumervil anyone?

the irony of it all


hunter has shown his potential standing up. big strong physical fast LB. Moss will still play though lets not kid ourselves and act like moss didnt show improvements this off season. But this is a beefy front 7 with williams, mcbean, bannan, and then your OLBers are both 270 big strong and can run, haggans in the middle at 265 big strong and fast. its gonna be hard to run on this team this year.

Lets hope the BEEF will not get lost in being out of position. If the stay in their lanes and not pursue then we should be better.

that was what killed us late last year winding up chasing folks down from behind because one or more guys did not stay at home.

[claymore]

Elvis Dumervil anyone?

Didnt Dumervil know he was going to play OLB thru most of the offseason and all of TC?

[Traveler]

It doesn't speak well of Moss that Hunter supplanted him so quickly. Maybe the injury played a part. Not sure Moss would hold up as a starter anyway.

A little OT, but looking at the possible starters on defense this weekend, JMFMcD has "gotten bigger", as he stated earlier this offseason. Especially with the linebackers. Now we'll find out if bigger is truly better. Every lineman we have with the exception of McBean is over 300 lbs.

DL

Bannon- 310
J. Williams- 348
McBean- 297 (throw in Vickerson at 325)

LB's

Hunter- 271
Haggan- 267
D.J. Williams- 242
Ayers- 274

[claymore]

It doesn't speak well of Moss that Hunter supplanted him so quickly. Maybe the injury played a part. Not sure Moss would hold up as a starter anyway.

A little OT, but looking at the possible starters on defense this weekend, JMFMcD has "gotten bigger", as he stated earlier this offseason. Especially with the linebackers. Now we'll find out if bigger is truly better.

DL

Bannon- 310
J. Williams- 348
McBean- 297

LB's

Hunter- 271
Haggan- 267
D.J. Williams- 242
Ayers- 274
Not to sound negative.... But I think the most important guy on our defense is Williams backup. I just cant see him going the whole season.

[Lonestar]

It doesn't speak well of Moss that Hunter supplanted him so quickly. Maybe the injury played a part. Not sure Moss would hold up as a starter anyway.

A little OT, but looking at the possible starters on defense this weekend, JMFMcD has "gotten bigger", as he stated earlier this offseason. Especially with the linebackers. Now we'll find out if bigger is truly better.

DL

Bannon- 310
J. Williams- 348
McBean- 297 (throw in Vickerson at 325)

LB's

Hunter- 271
Haggan- 267
D.J. Williams- 242
Ayers- 274

as compared to the BIG guy last year fields at 310. this is a major upgrade an should be able to handle most OLINES .

Lets just hope they do not wear down like in the past.

[Traveler]

Not to sound negative.... But I think the most important guy on our defense is Williams backup. I just cant see him going the whole season.

I can live with Fields and Thomas.

[slim]

I refuse to believe that a guy who never played OLB in his life prior to 2 weeks ago is our best option at OLB. Not good.

Exactly. This is bad.

[slim]

It doesn't speak well of Moss that Hunter supplanted him so quickly. Maybe the injury played a part. Not sure Moss would hold up as a starter anyway.

A little OT, but looking at the possible starters on defense this weekend, JMFMcD has "gotten bigger", as he stated earlier this offseason. Especially with the linebackers. Now we'll find out if bigger is truly better. Every lineman we have with the exception of McBean is over 300 lbs.

DL

Bannon- 310
J. Williams- 348
McBean- 297 (throw in Vickerson at 325)

LB's

Hunter- 271
Haggan- 267
D.J. Williams- 242
Ayers- 274

It doesn't speak well of the talent we have on defense.

If we can pick up a player off the street and he is an instant starter...sweet jeebus.

[Traveler]

It doesn't speak well of the talent we have on defense.

If we can pick up a player off the street and he is an instant starter...sweet jeebus.

Can't argue that point.:eek:

[slim]

Can't argue that point.:eek:

Hold me :sad:

[Traveler]

Hold me :sad:

UH...........................NO!:shocked:

[Bosco]

Can't argue that point.:eek:

I can. Let's remember that this guy is replacing our injured All-Pro linebacker and will be platooning with Moss to replace him. :D

[spikerman]

Maybe it's time to break out that 4-3 they were practicing in training camp. :tsk:

[dogfish]

UH...........................NO!:shocked:

way to not take one for the team you selfish SOB. . . :tsk:

[dogfish]

on topic: i'm actually a lot less worried about hunter than i am about our offensive tackle situation. . .

yes, it is a concern that hunter pretty much stepped off the street and into a job. . . but-- as much as i really don't like doing this, i have to say that it's as much an indictment of the position shanahan left us in on defense as it is an indictment on mcD's personnel management. . .

not that i'm especially thrilled at the rate he's restocking, but you have to give it to him-- he inherited virtually nothing even usable beyond champ, DJ and elvis. . . if our defensive "talent" hadn't been historically bad, maybe we'd have something left we could use a year or two later, instead of having to start basically from scratch. . .

of course, that also raises the specter of the old "he shouldn't have taken apart the offense" deabte, but i've got about no interest in rehashing that one-- really, you guys go ahead if you want. . .

in any case, it looks like he has done a good job of rebuilding quality depth at certain positions. . . the defensive secondary, interior offensive line and wide receiver positions look more or less set for the next couple of years-- at all three of those spots, we go to the end of the depth chart with players who have either some proven ability, or a nice chunk of potential. . . barring injury, guys like D. thomas, decker, matt willis, syd'quan, cassius vaughn, mcbath, bruton and perrish cox all have a chance to be starters or important reserves for this team well into the foreseeable future. . .

quarterback is pretty much set for the next few years, love it or hate it. . .

and walton, beadles, daniels and olsen (i consider beadles a guard at this point) will hopefully play well enough to join clady and kupes (and harris, if he's here) to constitute the majority of our ofensive line for years. . . it's even possible that we have OT solidified as well-- i'm just not sold yet. . . batiste is a warm body, and i'm assuming waiver wire guy will be the same. . . we'll see how well clady can come back this year, how quickly harris can get back on the field (and whether he can stay there), and whether beadles can play OT if he has to. . .

either way, having at least a few positions more or less squared away makes the rest of the rebuild pretty obvious. . . the next two years we're going to have to focus on the defensive front seven, plain and simple. . . throw in one pick in the top three rounds for another RB, and possibly a pick for a right tackle. . . as of right now it still looks to me like we need better depth at TE as well, but you can usually find TEs cheap-- and same goes for safety. . . of course our needs will continue to change between now and the next draft-- somebody getting hurt, a draft pick flopping, a late rounder turning into a star, etc-- but you can see a pretty clear pattern. . .

if nothing else, we're going to end up giving a lot of young/inexperienced LBs some looks this year just by default. . . given that it's a position where we have such need, there's a big opportunity there for some young guy who might not have gotten a chance otherwise to step up and make a career for himself. . . long odds, but it doesn't take the next james harrison, either. . .

if hunter can be solid against the run, he'll have fulfilled most of my immediate expectations. . . although he's new to the position :doh:, at least hunter isn't a rookie as well. . . he's had time to get used to the speed of the game. . .

in all honesty, it's quite likely to be a problem spot all year-- that's the bottom line when you lose an all-pro at the position, and the guy you drafted last year is already pencilled in as a starter on the other side. . . that lack of depth is part of what you typically go through when you switch defensive fronts-- couple that with the worst possible injury plus the failure of veteran 3-4 'backers like ayodele and greisen, and bad luck hit us in one of the vulnerable spots on the roster. . .

i think lack of pass rush is probably going to cost us our shot at being a decent team this year, but maybe one of these guys can step up. . . it would be nice if we could at least develop one or two of 'em into viable backups to play behind the stud 'backers we draft in the next year or two. . . :wishfulthinking:

[Dzone]

Moss just looks skinny and dainty...Like most anyone could just run him over.....You just dont see scrawny dudes making it these days...

[Lonestar]

on topic: i'm actually a lot less worried about hunter than i am about our offensive tackle situation. . .

yes, it is a concern that hunter pretty much stepped off the street and into a job. . . but-- as much as i really don't like doing this, i have to say that it's as much an indictment of the position shanahan left us in on defense as it is an indictment on mcD's personnel management. . .

not that i'm especially thrilled at the rate he's restocking, but you have to give it to him-- he inherited virtually nothing even usable beyond champ, DJ and elvis. . . if our defensive "talent" hadn't been historically bad, maybe we'd have something left we could use a year or two later, instead of having to start basically from scratch. . .

of course, that also raises the specter of the old "he shouldn't have taken apart the offense" deabte, but i've got about no interest in rehashing that one-- really, you guys go ahead if you want. . .

in any case, it looks like he has done a good job of rebuilding quality depth at certain positions. . . the defensive secondary, interior offensive line and wide receiver positions look more or less set for the next couple of years-- at all three of those spots, we go to the end of the depth chart with players who have either some proven ability, or a nice chunk of potential. . . barring injury, guys like D. thomas, decker, matt willis, syd'quan, cassius vaughn, mcbath, bruton and perrish cox all have a chance to be starters or important reserves for this team well into the foreseeable future. . .

quarterback is pretty much set for the next few years, love it or hate it. . .

and walton, beadles, daniels and olsen (i consider beadles a guard at this point) will hopefully play well enough to join clady and kupes (and harris, if he's here) to constitute the majority of our ofensive line for years. . . it's even possible that we have OT solidified as well-- i'm just not sold yet. . . batiste is a warm body, and i'm assuming waiver wire guy will be the same. . . we'll see how well clady can come back this year, how quickly harris can get back on the field (and whether he can stay there), and whether beadles can play OT if he has to. . .

either way, having at least a few positions more or less squared away makes the rest of the rebuild pretty obvious. . . the next two years we're going to have to focus on the defensive front seven, plain and simple. . . throw in one pick in the top three rounds for another RB, and possibly a pick for a right tackle. . . as of right now it still looks to me like we need better depth at TE as well, but you can usually find TEs cheap-- and same goes for safety. . . of course our needs will continue to change between now and the next draft-- somebody getting hurt, a draft pick flopping, a late rounder turning into a star, etc-- but you can see a pretty clear pattern. . .

if nothing else, we're going to end up giving a lot of young/inexperienced LBs some looks this year just by default. . . given that it's a position where we have such need, there's a big opportunity there for some young guy who might not have gotten a chance otherwise to step up and make a career for himself. . . long odds, but it doesn't take the next james harrison, either. . .

if hunter can be solid against the run, he'll have fulfilled most of my immediate expectations. . . although he's new to the position :doh:, at least hunter isn't a rookie as well. . . he's had time to get used to the speed of the game. . .

in all honesty, it's quite likely to be a problem spot all year-- that's the bottom line when you lose an all-pro at the position, and the guy you drafted last year is already pencilled in as a starter on the other side. . . that lack of depth is part of what you typically go through when you switch defensive fronts-- couple that with the worst possible injury plus the failure of veteran 3-4 'backers like ayodele and greisen, and bad luck hit us in one of the vulnerable spots on the roster. . .

i think lack of pass rush is probably going to cost us our shot at being a decent team this year, but maybe one of these guys can step up. . . it would be nice if we could at least develop one or two of 'em into viable backups to play behind the stud 'backers we draft in the next year or two. . . :wishfulthinking:

Overall damned fine post.

I think we have almost ALL starting positions handles with solid if not great players.

The OLB I think will take care of itself and SACK will come from other spots in the D. When you blitz from different spots the O has to account for everyone every play.

Not just worry about one guy coming.

What we lack at is depth at almost every spot, when number 1 goes down it then in most spots jumps to #5 in Quality.
That comes from blotching day one picks over the years. BUT we need not discuss that one now.

Most teams quality one are built via the draft not getting aging FA's in to fill all the holes. Then they can afford to let a money grubbing player go because there is one as good that was drafted two years ago waiting to take his spot.

It will take us 4-5 drafts to get to that point were we are pretty self sufficent and will use FA less and less. Only picking someone up that can give us a few years while we groom his replacement that we draft that year.
If we pick up 2 to 4 starter quality players each year then we can sustain quality play for ever.

[LRtagger]

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