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rationalfan
09-07-2010, 01:50 PM
While reading a story about Boise State's win last night, I found this interesting nugget about Boise's quarterback Kellen Moore:

The Broncos' third-year starter was the nation's second-leading passer last season behind only Tim Tebow and entered the year a popular Heisman pick.

Read more: http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2010/writers/stewart_mandel/09/07/boisest.vatech/index.html?eref=sihp#ixzz0ys1ZPFlY

Interesting. It seems every critic of Tebow blasts the guy's throwing ability, his motion, his awareness, etc., while underscoring the fact that he can't pass and they can't believe he's going to be a successful QB. Many of the critics make it sound like he played college football in a wishbone formation where he threw it four times a game. They NEVER mention he was the nation's leading passer last year.

And while I'm aware that college passing success doesn't always equate to success in the NFL, i just think it's worth reminding us that Tebow isn't the absolute "project" many people in the media make him out to be.

slim
09-07-2010, 01:54 PM
We agree.

I Eat Staples
09-07-2010, 02:11 PM
While reading a story about Boise State's win last night, I found this interesting nugget about Boise's quarterback Kellen Moore:

The Broncos' third-year starter was the nation's second-leading passer last season behind only Tim Tebow and entered the year a popular Heisman pick.

Read more: http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2010/writers/stewart_mandel/09/07/boisest.vatech/index.html?eref=sihp#ixzz0ys1ZPFlY

Interesting. It seems every critic of Tebow blasts the guy's throwing ability, his motion, his awareness, etc., while underscoring the fact that he can't pass and they can't believe he's going to be a successful QB. Many of the critics make it sound like he played college football in a wishbone formation where he threw it four times a game. They NEVER mention he was the nation's leading passer last year.

And while I'm aware that college passing success doesn't always equate to success in the NFL, i just think it's worth reminding us that Tebow isn't the absolute "project" many people in the media make him out to be.

Colt Brennan led the nation in passing before. How did that translate to the NFL?

BroncoWave
09-07-2010, 02:23 PM
Colt Brennan led the nation in passing before. How did that translate to the NFL?

Colt Brennan did it against the WAC. Tim Tebow did it against the SEC, which unarguably possesses the biggest, fastest, and most talented defenses in the nation.

The fact that you would even make that comparison is laughable at best.

I Eat Staples
09-07-2010, 02:30 PM
Colt Brennan did it against the WAC. Tim Tebow did it against the SEC, which unarguably possesses the biggest, fastest, and most talented defenses in the nation.

The fact that you would even make that comparison is laughable at best.

Valid point. But they both did it from simple spread offenses and Brennan has a weak arm, while Tebow has mechanical problems.

I'm not saying Tebow isn't ahead of Brennan, and I'm not saying that the situations are the same. But they are similar.

And this thread is specifically about leading the nation in passing. It even used Kellen Moore as an example.

BroncoWave
09-07-2010, 02:32 PM
Valid point. But they both did it from simple spread offenses and Brennan has a weak arm, while Tebow has mechanical problems.

I'm not saying Tebow isn't ahead of Brennan, and I'm not saying that the situations are the same. But they are similar.

The only thing they have in common is that they led the nation in passing. The comparisons end there though. And mechanical problems (which I think are vastly overrated in Tebow's case) can be fixed MUCH more easily than a weak arm.

Thnikkaman
09-07-2010, 02:39 PM
Just for future reference, try not to start a thread by calling someone a tosser.

from Urban Dictionary:

Tosser-
Literally, one who masturbates. Common usage typically refers to anyone of whom you have a low opinion.

I Eat Staples
09-07-2010, 02:40 PM
The only thing they have in common is that they led the nation in passing. The comparisons end there though. And mechanical problems (which I think are vastly overrated in Tebow's case) can be fixed MUCH more easily than a weak arm.

That's true, and there are a few successful QBs with odd mechanics anyway. But neither of them can read defenses, either. Or at least, they didn't read defenses in college. If you believe Tebow learned to read defenses on his own time, I won't confirm or deny.

And this thread was stating that Tebow isn't a project because he led the nation in passing. No matter what your opinion of Tebow is, I think that's a rather bold statement to make.

Ravage!!!
09-07-2010, 02:40 PM
Just for future reference, try not to start a thread by calling someone a tosser.

from Urban Dictionary:

Tosser-
Literally, one who masturbates. Common usage typically refers to anyone of whom you have a low opinion.

Thats what I thought when I saw the title. I was like "well yeah, he's male isn't he?"

GEM
09-07-2010, 02:48 PM
I was ready to come in here and move this baby to the smack forum. :lol:

broncophan
09-07-2010, 02:54 PM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RFE0wW6DfNo

Reminds me of this funny scene from Weird Science ....Gary's mom finds out he tosses off in the bathroom....lol

rationalfan
09-07-2010, 03:16 PM
Colt Brennan led the nation in passing before. How did that translate to the NFL?

thanks capt. obvious, for repeating a point i made sure to mention.

rationalfan
09-07-2010, 03:19 PM
Just for future reference, try not to start a thread by calling someone a tosser.

from Urban Dictionary:

Tosser-
Literally, one who masturbates. Common usage typically refers to anyone of whom you have a low opinion.

it wasn't a mistake. creating a thread/headline/title with words that have double or dubious meanings creates a higher interesting in reading that item.

in this situation, it allows people of opposing viewpoints to find interest in the thread.

rcsodak
09-07-2010, 03:22 PM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RFE0wW6DfNo

Reminds me of this funny scene from Weird Science ....Gary's mom finds out he tosses off in the bathroom....lol
I read a poll that asked where the favorite/safest spot for that was.....and the bathroom was a 'toss-up' with bedroom. lol
ps. Clay's trailer brought up the rear. :grin:
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claymore
09-07-2010, 03:24 PM
I read a poll that asked where the favorite/safest spot for that was.....and the bathroom was a 'toss-up' with bedroom. lol
ps. Clay's trailer brought up the rear. :grin:
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In your butt.

I Eat Staples
09-07-2010, 03:36 PM
thanks capt. obvious, for repeating a point i made sure to mention.

Really? You used it as evidence that he's not a project, as if it means something in the NFL. Then you even contradicted yourself in the last line. If you feel Tebow leading the nation in passing helps validate your claim that he will be successful, then that's fine, I simply used Brennan as a counterpoint.

If my statement was so obvious to you, and leading the nation in passing means nothing, then why did you make this thread?

Thnikkaman
09-07-2010, 03:40 PM
it wasn't a mistake. creating a thread/headline/title with words that have double or dubious meanings creates a higher interesting in reading that item.

in this situation, it allows people of opposing viewpoints to find interest in the thread.

Yes, but knowing this forum and the mods pretty well, your thread is liable to end up in the Lounge or the Black Hole and not reach your intended audience all together.

But hey, its your thread.

rationalfan
09-07-2010, 03:49 PM
Really? You used it as evidence that he's not a project, as if it means something in the NFL. Then you even contradicted yourself in the last line. If you feel Tebow leading the nation in passing helps validate your claim that he will be successful, then that's fine, I simply used Brennan as a counterpoint.

If my statement was so obvious to you, and leading the nation in passing means nothing, then why did you make this thread?

you're over-complicating this. i simply made sure to mention that success in college as a quarterback doesn't always translate to success in the NFL so this thread wouldn't be polluted by posts just like yours; all referencing some college stud who sucked in the nfl.

after reading your second post i have to question your reading comprehension levels. i'm not trying to be a dick, just completely honest.

rationalfan
09-07-2010, 03:51 PM
Yes, but knowing this forum and the mods pretty well, your thread is liable to end up in the Lounge or the Black Hole and not reach your intended audience all together.

But hey, its your thread.

well, i don't know the tendencies of the mods on this site. i like to think that means i'm doing more productive things than arguing on the internet.

slim
09-07-2010, 03:52 PM
We think it is getting tense in here.

I Eat Staples
09-07-2010, 03:52 PM
you're over-complicating this. i simply made sure to mention that success in college as a quarterback doesn't always translate to success in the NFL so this thread wouldn't be polluted by posts just like yours; all referencing some college stud who sucked in the nfl.

after reading your second post i have to question your reading comprehension levels. i'm not trying to be a dick, just completely honest.

Well, you used college success as the sole reason for him not being a project. So if you don't agree with what you said yourself, I don't see why you made this thread.

My reading comprehension is fine. I'm comprehending that you don't even comprehend what you yourself are saying.

BroncoWave
09-07-2010, 03:57 PM
Well, you used college success as the sole reason for him not being a project. So if you don't agree with what you said yourself, I don't see why you made this thread.

My reading comprehension is fine. I'm comprehending that you don't even comprehend what you yourself are saying.

No, he didn't. You reading comprehension really is that bad.

Thnikkaman
09-07-2010, 04:01 PM
well, i don't know the tendencies of the mods on this site. i like to think that means i'm doing more productive things than arguing on the internet.

To quote you, "I'm not trying to be a dik."

slim
09-07-2010, 04:03 PM
To quote you, "I'm not trying to be a dik."

We think you are.

rcsodak
09-07-2010, 04:03 PM
We think it is getting tense in here.
No, but clay's comment made me keep my backside against the wall. :shock:
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rationalfan
09-07-2010, 04:04 PM
To quote you, "I'm not trying to be a dik."

i didn't interpret your post as mean-spirited. at all.

I Eat Staples
09-07-2010, 04:04 PM
No, he didn't. You reading comprehension really is that bad.


While reading a story about Boise State's win last night, I found this interesting nugget about Boise's quarterback Kellen Moore:

The Broncos' third-year starter was the nation's second-leading passer last season behind only Tim Tebow and entered the year a popular Heisman pick.

Read more: http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2010/writers/stewart_mandel/09/07/boisest.vatech/index.html?eref=sihp#ixzz0ys1ZPFlY

Interesting. It seems every critic of Tebow blasts the guy's throwing ability, his motion, his awareness, etc., while underscoring the fact that he can't pass and they can't believe he's going to be a successful QB. Many of the critics make it sound like he played college football in a wishbone formation where he threw it four times a game. They NEVER mention he was the nation's leading passer last year.

And while I'm aware that college passing success doesn't always equate to success in the NFL, i just think it's worth reminding us that Tebow isn't the absolute "project" many people in the media make him out to be.

His reason for Tebow not being a project is the bolded statement. Find me another reason or you're failing at an unprecedented level.

slim
09-07-2010, 04:04 PM
No, but clay's comment made me keep my backside against the wall. :shock:
Mobile Post via Mobile.BroncosForums.com/forums

Clay makes me want to dance naked in a field of tulips.

BroncoWave
09-07-2010, 04:09 PM
[/B]

His reason for Tebow not being a project is the bolded statement. Find me another reason or you're failing at an unprecedented level.

Read his last sentence more closely. The point he was getting at isn't that his passing in college means that he is in no way a project. His point was that given his passing ability in college, he isn't the "absolute" project that people say he is. To put it more simply, he's saying he's not AS BIG a project as many say he is based on the fact he passed so well in college against great competition.

It wasn't that hard to comprehend what he was trying to say. You just read it the way you wanted to because you hate Tebow.

rationalfan
09-07-2010, 04:11 PM
[/B]

His reason for Tebow not being a project is the bolded statement. Find me another reason or you're failing at an unprecedented level.

first, you're not acknowledging the word "absolute" in my first post. it's a qualifying term to guard against hyperbole.

second, the point of the post was to remind myself and anyone who cared to read it that despite the claims of some media critics tebow was a successful passer in college. you understood it to mean my entire reason for creating this thread was to tell people tebow isn't a project. that's not true.

you're focusing on the final sentence which was a qualifying statement to prevent typing responses just like this. irony is great.

Ravage!!!
09-07-2010, 04:14 PM
No, he didn't. You reading comprehension really is that bad.

Sure he did. Rational's point about Tebow not being as 'much of a project' was stated because of the success he had in college throwing the ball. Then you, then came back that his success at throwing the ball was in the SEC as opposed to the WAC, thus indicating his success of throwing the ball in college is more valid then Brennens and can't be compared.

All of which, are using Tebow's success in college as the reasons to believe that Tebow won't be as much of a project as people/fans/critcs/sportswriters has made us out to believe.


Interesting. It seems every critic of Tebow blasts the guy's throwing ability, his motion, his awareness, etc., while underscoring the fact that he can't pass and they can't believe he's going to be a successful QB. Many of the critics make it sound like he played college football in a wishbone formation where he threw it four times a game. They NEVER mention he was the nation's leading passer last year.

And while I'm aware that college passing success doesn't always equate to success in the NFL, i just think it's worth reminding us that Tebow isn't the absolute "project" many people in the media make him out to be.

Staples isn't making accusations, and his points weren't throwing Tebow under the bus nor through the chipper. He just RE-stated what rationalfan typed by stating that college succcess doesn't translate to NFL success, and used a QB as an example. Whether you want to accept that particular example or not, is up to you.

I personally would use Leinart as the perfect example. He not only won the Heisman, but won two national championships and is left handed (although we know left handed doesn't change anything, or does it?). Having success in college doesn't always translate, and neither does leading the NCAA in passing. Especially when we've seen QBs throughout college put up GIGANTIC numbers in the spread offense throughout college, and none of done well in the NFL.

BroncoWave
09-07-2010, 04:20 PM
Sure he did. Rational's point about Tebow not being as 'much of a project' was stated because of the success he had in college throwing the ball. Then you, then came back that his success at throwing the ball was in the SEC as opposed to the WAC, thus indicating his success of throwing the ball in college is more valid then Brennens thus it can't be compared.

All of which, are using Tebow's success in college as the reasons to believe that Tebow won't be as much of a project as people/fans/critcs/sportswriters has made us out to believe.

It is more valid than Brennan's and can't be compared. I still stand by that. That is being used as ONE REASON he is not an absolute project like some say he is. No one is saying that is the ONLY reason, like Staples is trying to claim.

Ravage!!!
09-07-2010, 04:29 PM
It is more valid than Brennan's and can't be compared. I still stand by that. That is being used as ONE REASON he is not an absolute project like some say he is. No one is saying that is the ONLY reason, like Staples is trying to claim.
Thats fine if you believe that and I think Staples agreed with you. It wasn't the point of the example. The point was that college success can't be used as the sole reason to believe someone is going to succeed, or in this case, not be as much of a project as many of the critics/drafters/scouts believe.

Staples just said that rational used the colleges success as the SOLE reason not to believe he's as big a project. Thats the only one he (rational) stated and used as to a reason "why" he (Tebow) isn't such a project...thus that makes it the sole reasoning behind his belief. Even if rational believes there are more reasons, none of them were stated reasons.

I Eat Staples
09-07-2010, 04:36 PM
Read his last sentence more closely. The point he was getting at isn't that his passing in college means that he is in no way a project. His point was that given his passing ability in college, he isn't the "absolute" project that people say he is. To put it more simply, he's saying he's not AS BIG a project as many say he is based on the fact he passed so well in college against great competition.

It wasn't that hard to comprehend what he was trying to say. You just read it the way you wanted to because you hate Tebow.

It doesn't matter if he was saying he was a small project, a big project, a medium project. You stated he didn't use college success as the sole evidence of that. No matter what his claim was, he used college success as the sole evidence. You said he didn't. Find me another form of evidence he used.


first, you're not acknowledging the word "absolute" in my first post. it's a qualifying term to guard against hyperbole.

second, the point of the post was to remind myself and anyone who cared to read it that despite the claims of some media critics tebow was a successful passer in college. you understood it to mean my entire reason for creating this thread was to tell people tebow isn't a project. that's not true.

you're focusing on the final sentence which was a qualifying statement to prevent typing responses just like this. irony is great.

The media critics never said he wasn't successful in college. They said he wouldn't be successful in the NFL. And if you meant something other than what you said, you worded it wrong.

slim
09-07-2010, 04:39 PM
I am glad we cleared that up.

In summary, please say what you mean and try not to read too much into what others are trying to communicate.

Nice work, fellas.

CrazyHorse
09-07-2010, 04:50 PM
Just for future reference, try not to start a thread by calling someone a tosser.

from Urban Dictionary:

Tosser-
Literally, one who masturbates. Common usage typically refers to anyone of whom you have a low opinion.

I was thinking salad tosser as in tossing the salad. Check your urban dictionary for that one.

rationalfan
09-07-2010, 04:56 PM
The media critics never said he wasn't successful in college. They said he wouldn't be successful in the NFL. And if you meant something other than what you said, you worded it wrong.

i did not word anything incorrectly as it pertains to the idea i intended to distribute. i simply didn't take your personal liabilities (biases, selective understanding) into account. there's a fine line between intent and interpretation, but you're hanging from the line writing your own version of history.

we are all less intelligent for having participated in this thread.

Magnificent Seven
09-07-2010, 05:03 PM
Tebow is a dark horse.

GGMoogly
09-07-2010, 05:29 PM
Tebow is a dark horse.

Tebow is a STUD horse! :strongy:

Shazam!
09-07-2010, 07:37 PM
Why compare Tebow to Brennan in the pros? What sense does that make?

Brennan started how many games w/Wash? Tebow 0?

I Eat Staples
09-07-2010, 08:11 PM
i did not word anything incorrectly as it pertains to the idea i intended to distribute. i simply didn't take your personal liabilities (biases, selective understanding) into account. there's a fine line between intent and interpretation, but you're hanging from the line writing your own version of history.

Well let's see. You started this thread saying that because Tebow led the nation in passing, he's not an absolute project. I used Brennan as an example of how college success, even leading the nation in passing, can mean nothing in the NFL. I think it's you having trouble understanding my comments.


we are all less intelligent for having participated in this thread.

So you're saying that you brought us all down to your level. Ok then.


Why compare Tebow to Brennan in the pros? What sense does that make?

Brennan started how many games w/Wash? Tebow 0?

I used Brennan as an example of how college success doesn't necessarily translate to pro success, especially when a player has a certain skillset that works best in the college game.

rationalfan
09-07-2010, 08:48 PM
Well let's see. You started this thread saying that because Tebow led the nation in passing, he's not an absolute project.

ugh. you're twisting this further into a knot of misunderstanding. i've previously stated that the point of the thread was not to illustrate tebow isn't a project. the point of the thread was twofold:
1. To remind myself and others that despite what many media critics say, tebow was a prolific passer in college.

2. To point out the holes in some media's critical observations about tebow.

whether to push your agenda, intentionally start an online pissing match or simply due to misunderstanding, you've distorted this to become some argument about the merits of tebow's potential. of course, i don't expect you to agree or admit there are multiple perspectives to life.

an aside: i work in the media. your posts remind me of the hatemail sent my way by blind fanboys or idealogues who refuse to admit there are, at least, two sides to every story.

this is my last post in this thread. enjoy using your myopic worldview to craft dominion in here. later.

I Eat Staples
09-07-2010, 08:59 PM
1. To remind myself and others that despite what many media critics say, tebow was a prolific passer in college.

Not one media critic has said he wasn't a prolific passer in college. If you disagree, provide a source of a person in the media saying Tebow didn't have good college stats. Not one person has ever said that, and frankly it doesn't mean anything.


2. To point out the holes in some media's critical observations about tebow.


You've failed to do that. You stated something that no media critic disagreed with.

Your argument contains more holes than swiss cheese.

BroncoWave
09-11-2010, 12:32 PM
I didn't want to start a new thread so I figured I would put in this one.

Florida is absolute horse shit this year without Tebow. Sucked last week in their first game and are losing 7-0 in the second quarter to USF right now. It's obvious how much he meant to that team and what a winner he is.

shank
09-11-2010, 12:57 PM
Clay makes me want to dance naked in a field of tulips.

his subliminal messages must not be working properly. he was trying to get you to run backwards naked through a field of corn.

JDL
09-11-2010, 03:40 PM
Colt Brennan did it against the WAC. Tim Tebow did it against the SEC, which unarguably possesses the biggest, fastest, and most talented defenses in the nation.

The fact that you would even make that comparison is laughable at best.

2004

1) Stefan Lefors
2) Alex Smith
3) Jason Campbell
4) Omar Jacobs
5) Bruce Gradkowski

2005

1) Rudy Carpenter
2) Brian Brohm
3) Vince Young
4) Troy Smith
5) Drew Olson

2006

1) Colt Brennan
2) John Beck
3) Jamarcus Russell
4) Tyler Palko
5) Kevin Kolb

2007

1) Sam Bradford
2) Tim Tebow
3) Dennis Dixon
4) Colt Brennan
5) Paul Smith

2008

1) Sam Bradford
2) David Johnson
3) Colt McCoy
4) Tim Tebow
5) Zac Robinson

2009

1) Tim Tebow
2) Kellen Moore
3) Jimmy Clausen
4) Max Hall
5) Kyle Padron


There are some pretty awful NFL passers or never weres on that list.... and not a current elite NFL passer on the list... and it isn't like no NFL QBs have emerged in the last 5 years... Kolb has a shot and then you have the guys that came out this year... but college passer rating has virtually NO correlation to NFL success.

hamrob
09-11-2010, 04:54 PM
Wow, Tim Tebow was in the top-5 three years in a row. What a stud!

Take a look at Tebow's Preseason Stats. Not shabby for a rookie who is such a project. he had a couple over 35yds. He does need to quicken his wind up a bit...but, at the end of the day...he'll be just fine!

TEBOW
http://www.denverbroncos.com/team/roster/Tim-Tebow/071a5a38-08d2-41b2-a0ec-949b28258d40

CLAUSEN
http://www.panthers.com/team/roster/Jimmy-Clausen/57ba15b7-9919-4f38-af52-84a816cb3a3c

BRADFORD
http://www.stlouisrams.com/team/roster/Sam-Bradford/33a79047-0e0d-445e-b937-3ae24311053c

Sure, Bradford finished out the Preseason looking very polished and didn't throw an INT. But, I didn't think Tebow looked all that bad in comparision. And take a look at Tebow's average per throw...over 8yds. Not too shabby. Let all the haters hate...I think we have us a good one!

rcsodak
09-11-2010, 09:45 PM
I didn't want to start a new thread so I figured I would put in this one.

Florida is absolute horse shit this year without Tebow. Sucked last week in their first game and are losing 7-0 in the second quarter to USF right now. It's obvious how much he meant to that team and what a winner he is.

So you're saying having a new QB after 3yrs might just correlate to a struggling offense?

I don't think that's just true with UF. OU went from most probably being in the BCSCG last year, to 8-5.

I Eat Staples
09-11-2010, 10:04 PM
I didn't want to start a new thread so I figured I would put in this one.

Florida is absolute horse shit this year without Tebow. Sucked last week in their first game and are losing 7-0 in the second quarter to USF right now. It's obvious how much he meant to that team and what a winner he is.


So you're saying having a new QB after 3yrs might just correlate to a struggling offense?

I don't think that's just true with UF. OU went from most probably being in the BCSCG last year, to 8-5.

This, as well as the fact that they had several defensive starters taken on the first 2 days, not to mention a WR, TE, and C. Players graduate and teams go through down years. Of course they miss Tebow, but Florida isn't the only team that has struggled after losing their multiple-year, heisman winning QB. :coffee:

rcsodak
09-11-2010, 10:49 PM
This, as well as the fact that they had several defensive starters taken on the first 2 days, not to mention a WR, TE, and C. Players graduate and teams go through down years. Of course they miss Tebow, but Florida isn't the only team that has struggled after losing their multiple-year, heisman winning QB. :coffee:

Bradford
McCoy
Williams (LT)
Gresham

All 1st rounders