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Tned
09-07-2010, 12:21 PM
Ok, with talk about the Smith drafting, fall from grace and then trade, it got me to thinking (that's how us southern boys say it).

What are the biggest mistakes/blunders in Broncos history? List what you think are the biggest blunders in Broncos history (recent or distant).

Tned
09-07-2010, 12:22 PM
I'll start, the first two that come to mind are the QB blunders.

Drafting Tommy Maddox when Elway was in the prime of his career.

Signing Plummer as a free agent, when it was clear he wasn't capable of being a 'real' winning QB.

DenBronx
09-07-2010, 12:28 PM
Letting go of Shanahan, the Goodmans, Cutler, Marshall, Sheffler and Hillis when we had a young nucleus of talent that could develop together. I would have loved to see them all together the next year. Good things could have happened for the Broncos.

Monumental mistake if you ask me.


Now were on pace to break records with draft bust.

We ship Sheff because we "don't use pass catching TE's" then trade away pick 14 for a 7th round "pass catching TE" to the SAME TEAM that thought Sheff was an upgrade over the one they shipped us!


Not to mention dead money is starting to pile up with blundered free agent signings.

Ziggy
09-07-2010, 12:28 PM
Drafting Ted Gregory in the first round is the forgotten one. He was a NT that was so undersized and undertalented, he didn't make it out of his rookie training camp. The Broncos ended up trading him for another bust from New Orleans before his first season even started.

Ravage!!!
09-07-2010, 12:30 PM
Hiring Kennison.

Hiring Wade PHillips.

Ravage!!!
09-07-2010, 12:31 PM
Drafting Ted Gregory in the first round is the forgotten one. He was a NT that was so undersized and undertalented, he didn't make it out of his rookie training camp. The Broncos ended up trading him for another bust from New Orleans before his first season even started.

wow, Zig.. I had to google that name. 1965 is going back a ways :beer:

Tned
09-07-2010, 12:31 PM
Drafting Mike Anderson, who let the team down with his dope smoking.

BigDaddyBronco
09-07-2010, 12:36 PM
Shanny not kidnapping Elways family to force him to come back and win his third straight SB.

Instead we had Griese and Lepsis destroy TD's knee the next year.

jhildebrand
09-07-2010, 12:37 PM
Dan Williams
Mike Croel
Toviessi
Alphonso Smith

BroncoWave
09-07-2010, 12:40 PM
This thread will end well. :popcorn:

BroncoNut
09-07-2010, 12:40 PM
when they fumble or throw an interception

T.K.O.
09-07-2010, 12:42 PM
losing:salute:

arapaho2
09-07-2010, 12:42 PM
in no order

eddiekinnesen

darrle gardner

tradeing cutler

dismantleing a young upcomeing offense because it wasnt your picks

not fireing reeves sooner and getting a coach that could build a team around elway..instead of shitting away his talents till the 4th qrt

topscribe
09-07-2010, 12:43 PM
I'll start, the first two that come to mind are the QB blunders.

Drafting Tommy Maddox when Elway was in the prime of his career.

Signing Plummer as a free agent, when it was clear he wasn't capable of being a 'real' winning QB.

You stole my thunder right there. That was the first thing I thought of. Here
the Broncos had a superstar QB and a pressing need on defense, and they
spend a #1 on a QB! IIRC, I had to replace a front window that year.

Worse, Maddox as, for all intents and purposes, a bust! There have been some
pretty bad blunders before and since, but I think that one was in a class by
itself . . .


I hope, however, you had your tongue in your cheek regarding Plummer. I
believe three straight playoff years proved that move a good one . . .

-----

SOCALORADO.
09-07-2010, 12:43 PM
Willie Frickin Middlebrooks


















Finished puking.
We did however trade Willie for an incredibly awsome DE by the name of.........
(Puking again).............

Nomad
09-07-2010, 12:44 PM
For me, drafting Cutler instead of Ngata!!

But as Nut said, when fumbles occur and picks are thrown!!

BroncoNut
09-07-2010, 12:46 PM
there have probably been many draft busts. We'll never know on Jay Cutler , he's seems to be heading toward being a bust in the league, but maybe he wouldn't have been if Shanahan had stayed on in denver. ah, that's a whole nuther can of worms I suppose.

I Eat Staples
09-07-2010, 12:50 PM
Signing Plummer as a free agent, when it was clear he wasn't capable of being a 'real' winning QB.

Is this a serious statement?

Anyway, our offense in 08 was similar to the Saints offense in 08. They just won the superbowl this year. We could have been heading in the same direction they were, a wide open, high-powered passing attack that needed to revamp the defense. The Saints improved their defense, while keeping the offense mostly the same. If we would have done that, we would be a serious contender.

Whether or not you believe Shanahan was the guy to lead that team to a potential superbowl, I think with the overhaul McD did to our offense, it's evident that he wasn't the right man for the job.

Our biggest mistake was overhauling our offense when it was our defense that needed to be fixed. So hiring McD was the biggest mistake, as he led to it all.

BigDaddyBronco
09-07-2010, 12:53 PM
How about Dale Carter.

That sucked.

claymore
09-07-2010, 12:56 PM
Everything after 2009. Not a single mistake before that point.

Dreadnought
09-07-2010, 12:57 PM
You stole my thunder right there. That was the first thing I thought of. Here
the Broncos had a superstar QB and a pressing need on defense, and they
spend a #1 on a QB! IIRC, I had to replace a front window that year.

Worse, Maddox as, for all intents and purposes, a bust! There have been some
pretty bad blunders before and since, but I think that one was in a class by
itself . . .


I hope, however, you had your tongue in your cheek regarding Plummer. I
believe three straight playoff years proved that move a good one . . .

-----


I've said it before, but part of me thinks Maddox must have had nekkid pics of Reeves in an awkward position or something. That stiff followed him to NY and ATL IIR after essentially costing him his Denver job.

Well, OK, I don't really think that about nekkid pix, but it was weird. Reeves just couldn't bring himself to admit Maddox was simply an awful QB

Dismantling the '08 offense remains the worst for me though, topping the Maddox fiasco.

CrazyHorse
09-07-2010, 12:59 PM
Maurice Clarett

BroncoNut
09-07-2010, 01:00 PM
How about Dale Carter.

That sucked.

Didn't she go on to have success on a sitcom? oh,, that's right, that was NELL Carter. :lol: ehhhh......

Dale was before my time. draft bust I take it?

Alphonso Smith is an almost obvious mistake for a first round pick, but then again, if we used that first round pic, we might have used it on a bust. Hate to complicate things here but.... :whoknows:

BroncoNut
09-07-2010, 01:01 PM
Maurice Clarett

I think that's a good one there.

Ravage!!!
09-07-2010, 01:02 PM
Didn't she go on to have success on a sitcom? oh,, that's right, that was NELL Carter. :lol: ehhhh......

Dale was before my time. draft bust I take it?

Alphonso Smith is an almost obvious mistake for a first round pick, but then again, if we used that first round pic, we might have used it on a bust. Hate to complicate things here but.... :whoknows:


Dale was a great CB in Kansas City.... but was a major lame bust by the time we picked him up in FA

CrazyHorse
09-07-2010, 01:05 PM
Blowing a 3 game division lead.

Traveler
09-07-2010, 01:05 PM
Drafting Ted Gregory in the first round is the forgotten one. He was a NT that was so undersized and undertalented, he didn't make it out of his rookie training camp. The Broncos ended up trading him for another bust from New Orleans before his first season even started.

Crazy part of the story was the team hadn't seen him in person. They realized is size limitation(s) when he arrived at the team facilty for the first time.

If I remember correctly, Woody Paige wrote an article about how the staff was in shock when they saw him.

Has to be the number one all-time blunder!

Northman
09-07-2010, 01:07 PM
How about Dale Carter.

That sucked.

Definitely my first choice.

Dale Carter
Maurice Clarett
Marcus Nash
George Foster
Alphonso Smith
Richard Quinn
Ashley Lelie
Willie Middlebrooks
Tommy Maddox
Bobby Humphrey
IHOP
Eddie Kennison
J.J Arrington

MasterShake
09-07-2010, 01:07 PM
Kennison and Lelie.

honz
09-07-2010, 01:07 PM
I know it sucks to have players shipped away that you have become emotionally invested in, but I have no problem anymore with the trading of Cutler. His true colors have come out and he turned out to be a complete douche bag. I don't want that guy leading my team...it seems a lot of people have forgotten about how hard he choked at the end of the 2008 season, especially in the Buffalo game. He missed at least 2 wide open throws that would have gotten us to the playoffs.

Scheffler and Marshall are great talents and their leadership isn't quite as important as the QB's, but Scheff quitting on the team last year was unacceptable and I'm not so sure Marshall deserves to be paid like a top 5 WR in this league. He is a great player, but not a true deep threat...and he seemed to be becoming more of a diva every year.

Scheff, Marshall, and Cutty will likely all be successful this year, but unlike with Cutler last year, it's not going to bother me when they have big games. I know having a good football team is more important than having a bunch of good guys on the team, but I still enjoy rooting for the nice guys. I just hope that Orton, Tebow, Thomas, Decker, etc. can help us forget about the other guys with their play on the field.

Traveler
09-07-2010, 01:08 PM
Everything after 2009. Not a single mistake before that point.

OUCH! Sarcasm so thick you can cut it with a knife.

BroncoNut
09-07-2010, 01:08 PM
Dale was a great CB in Kansas City.... but was a major lame bust by the time we picked him up in FA

so, he fizzled with Denver huh?

dogfish
09-07-2010, 01:09 PM
letting brady quinn within a thousand yards of dove valley. . .

BroncoNut
09-07-2010, 01:12 PM
letting brady quinn within a thousand yards of dove valley. . .

ouch.

Dreadnought
09-07-2010, 01:12 PM
Everything after 2009. Not a single mistake before that point.

C;mon Claymore. I know you don't mean that. That would mean you approved of the Jake Plummer signing, and I know you better'n that :laugh:

CrazyHorse
09-07-2010, 01:12 PM
Ian Gold and Nate Webster.
http://www.snubian.com/images/webster2.jpg

We could have had Takeo Spikes and Jeremiah Trotter at the time.

Ravage!!!
09-07-2010, 01:13 PM
so, he fizzled with Denver huh?

Yeah. He was "fizzling" before we signed him, but once he signed big FA contract here, he went to poop and did absolutely nothing.

What was the big DTs name that did the same thing... the one with the pancake house incident??? (anyone?)

Ravage!!!
09-07-2010, 01:14 PM
Ian Gold and Nate Webster.
http://www.snubian.com/images/webster2.jpg

We could have had Takeo Spikes and Jeremiah Trotter at the time.

heh.. I would rather have THAT Webster than Nate!! :lol:

Dreadnought
09-07-2010, 01:15 PM
Yeah. He was "fizzling" before we signed him, but once he signed big FA contract here, he went to poop and did absolutely nothing.

What was the big DTs name that did the same thing... the one with the pancake house incident??? (anyone?)

Daryl Gardner?

Ravage!!!
09-07-2010, 01:16 PM
Daryl Gardner?

Thats it....

BroncoNut
09-07-2010, 01:18 PM
Is Ashley Lelie even still in the league?

Northman
09-07-2010, 01:18 PM
Ian Gold and Nate Webster.
http://www.snubian.com/images/webster2.jpg

We could have had Takeo Spikes and Jeremiah Trotter at the time.


I actually liked Gold but definitely in the minority here.

Tned
09-07-2010, 01:23 PM
I actually liked Gold but definitely in the minority here.

Ditto.

Ravage!!!
09-07-2010, 01:24 PM
I actually liked Gold but definitely in the minority here.

I didn't mind Ian. ONce he came back from TB you could see a change. He was pretty good that first and maybe second year. But that last year here, he just wasn't good anymore. Really fell off the cliff.

slim
09-07-2010, 01:25 PM
Drafting Jay Cutler.

claymore
09-07-2010, 01:26 PM
Ive always held the drafting of DJ williams against Ian Gold. I wanted Steven Jackson :sobad:.

I think trading Portis was a mistake as well. I think he could have put us over the hump in 2006.

Dreadnought
09-07-2010, 01:26 PM
I actually liked Gold but definitely in the minority here.

Gold was very solid his first time here - a small but fast and smart LB - but once he lost a step he was merely undersized. He became a liability

OrangeHoof
09-07-2010, 01:27 PM
so, he fizzled with Denver huh?

Not just fizzled. Dale Carter was a Pro Bowl corner with the Chefs who played with a mean streak. When he got to Denver, the only thing we got was the mean streak - cheap personal fouls at exactly the wrong time. It was as if he was a double agent sent to ruin us on defense.

I was going to bring up Ted Gregory when I clicked on this thread but that's been mentioned as are most of the best examples.

I could bring up Michael Dean Perry not getting his fat butt off the field in time to avoid a "too many men" penalty in a crucial playoff loss.

I just hope hiring Josh McDaniels isn't seen in five years as our greatest personnel blunder.

Buff
09-07-2010, 01:31 PM
Letting Mike Shanahan make defensive personnel decisions.

Ravage!!!
09-07-2010, 01:33 PM
Letting Mike Shanahan make defensive personnel decisions.

Letting McD make the offensive personnel decisions









(:lol: I know I"m going to get flamed for this, and I'm saying it purely for fun)








mostly :D

topscribe
09-07-2010, 01:35 PM
Ive always held the drafting of DJ williams against Ian Gold. I wanted Steven Jackson :sobad:.

I think trading Portis was a mistake as well. I think he could have put us over the hump in 2006.

Portis wasn't that kind of guy. Besides, that kind of remark belongs in the Lounge . . .

-----

Elevation inc
09-07-2010, 01:38 PM
1. Jarvis Moss
2. Maurice Clarrett
3. George foster
4. Willie Middlebrooks
5. Lennie Walls
6. Tommy Maddox
7. Brian Griese
8 Alphonso Smith
9. Tim Crowder

10. THE WORST FA CLASS I CAN REMEMBER IN A 2 YEAR PERIOD.....
Siging Travis Henry/Webster/MCree/Manuel/Lowery/Fox/Koutivides/Colbert/DJAX/Sam Adams/Kennedy/Dwayne Robertson/Antwan Burton/that is considered 1 complete Epic fail sequence(MCD hasnt touched that FA crop failure in a 2 year time period yet....just saying.....)

D1g1tal j1m
09-07-2010, 01:39 PM
Drafting Ashley and Foster. They did nothing to add to our offense...

Ravage!!!
09-07-2010, 01:40 PM
1. Jarvis Moss
2. Maurice Clarrett
3. George foster
4. Willie Middlebrooks
5. Lennie Walls
6. Tommy Maddox
7. Brian Griese
8 Alphonso Smith
9. Tim Crowder

10. THE WORST FA CLASS I CAN REMEMBER IN A 2 YEAR PERIOD.....
Siging Travis Henry/Webster/MCree/Manuel/Lowery/Fox/Koutivides/Colbert/DJAX/Sam Adams/Kennedy/Dwayne Robertson/Antwan Burton/that is considered 1 complete Epic fail sequence(MCD hasnt touched that FA crop failure in a 2 year time period yet....just saying.....)

wow.. hasn't reached that in the whole two years here? :lol:

Dreadnought
09-07-2010, 01:41 PM
1

10. THE WORST FA CLASS I CAN REMEMBER IN A 2 YEAR PERIOD.....
Siging Travis Henry/Webster/MCree/Manuel/Lowery/Fox/Koutivides/Colbert/DJAX/Sam Adams/Kennedy/Dwayne Robertson/Antwan Burton/that is considered 1 complete Epic fail sequence(MCD hasnt touched that FA crop failure in a 2 year time period yet....just saying.....)

As big a Shanahan supporter as I was and remain, that list is freakin' painful to look at.

slim
09-07-2010, 01:42 PM
Players we drafted in the first round that never played a down for us:

1. Marcus Nash
2. Ted Gregory
4. Dick Butkus

Traveler
09-07-2010, 01:44 PM
As big a Shanahan supporter as I was and remain, that list is freakin' painful to look at.

+1

My head hurts after reading that list by Elevation!

Northman
09-07-2010, 01:45 PM
Not just fizzled. Dale Carter was a Pro Bowl corner with the Chefs who played with a mean streak. When he got to Denver, the only thing we got was the mean streak - cheap personal fouls at exactly the wrong time. It was as if he was a double agent sent to ruin us on defense.

I was going to bring up Ted Gregory when I clicked on this thread but that's been mentioned as are most of the best examples.

I could bring up Michael Dean Perry not getting his fat butt off the field in time to avoid a "too many men" penalty in a crucial playoff loss.

I just hope hiring Josh McDaniels isn't seen in five years as our greatest personnel blunder.


I never even wanted him because of what he did to Rod Smith (i think it was him where undercut his legs). Not too mention he was a thug off the field and it just never sat right with me.

rationalfan
09-07-2010, 01:57 PM
fun thread.

a few things stick out instantly: the broncos drafted dick butkus? how did they let him leave? anyone know? also, this list is so weighted to the near past that it's hard to believe many of these moves were as bad as the ones the broncos made in the pre-orange crush era. those teams were terrible. had to be some bad personnel moves.

a few people mentioned lelie. uh, the guy did have a 1000 yard season for the broncos. hardly a bad move. if my memory is correct, anthony miller and mike pritchard never did that for the broncos - much worse moves, in my opinion.

somebody said plummer wasn't a winner. i believe he's the franchise's qb with the highest winning percentage, which means he is a winner.

honz
09-07-2010, 02:06 PM
Jake Plummer was a pretty good QB, only he seemed like Jamarcus Russell compared to Elway. He will always be judged unfairly.

I Eat Staples
09-07-2010, 02:08 PM
Blowing a 3 game division lead.

2 years in a row, mind you.


As big a Shanahan supporter as I was and remain, that list is freakin' painful to look at.

I second this. The only signings I liked at the time were Henry and Colbert, and they didn't work out.

Grover
09-07-2010, 02:23 PM
You guys are mostly talking mistakes on choosing specific players, either by FA or in the draft. And I agree there are too many questionable choices and a whole lot of failure.

I think the biggest single mistake in the history of the franchise is tearing down the old Mile High Stadium. the place was full of loud, noisy and totally cool football awesomeness. And that's just from TV because I've never attended a Broncos game in Denver.

Our home field advantage went bye bye as soon as we started playing at Invesco Field at Mile High.

And that, at least from this fan's perspective, is the single worst decision ever in Broncos Football, again, from a fan's standpoint. It may have worked out for Bowlen from a business standpoint, but it does not work as a fan of Broncos football.

CrazyHorse
09-07-2010, 02:23 PM
fun thread.

a few things stick out instantly: the broncos drafted dick butkus? how did they let him leave? anyone know? also, this list is so weighted to the near past that it's hard to believe many of these moves were as bad as the ones the broncos made in the pre-orange crush era. those teams were terrible. had to be some bad personnel moves.

a few people mentioned lelie. uh, the guy did have a 1000 yard season for the broncos. hardly a bad move. if my memory is correct, anthony miller and mike pritchard never did that for the broncos - much worse moves, in my opinion.

somebody said plummer wasn't a winner. i believe he's the franchise's qb with the highest winning percentage, which means he is a winner.

Butkus was also drafted by the Chicago Bears of the NFL while Denver was still an AFL team.

Dreadnought
09-07-2010, 02:28 PM
I almosty forgot - trading two first round draft picks to the San Diego Chargers for backup QB Steve Tensi in '67. Tensi had a lazer-rocket arm and bum knees; playing behind a bunch of turnstile O-Linemen he was battered out of football after just 4 years

Traveler
09-07-2010, 02:29 PM
I almosty forgot - trading two first round draft picks to the San Diego Chargers for backup QB Steve Tensi in '67. Tensi had a lazer-rocket arm and bum knees; playing behind a bunch of turnstile O-Linemen he was battered out of football after just 4 years

You're telling your age!:D

broncophan
09-07-2010, 02:35 PM
Allowing Doug Williams play like Joe Montana in the Superbowl
Allowing Joe Montana to play like Joe Montana in the Superbowl
Allowing the Redskins to score 35 points in one frickin qtr. in the superbowl.
Someone not kicking Michael Dean Perry in the ass to get him off the field in the playoff loss to the jags.
:(

dogfish
09-07-2010, 02:36 PM
Players we drafted in the first round that never played a down for us:

1. Marcus Nash
2. Ted Gregory
4. Dick Butkus

merlin olsen as well, IIRC. . . .

slim
09-07-2010, 02:38 PM
merlin olsen as well, IIRC. . . .

Yeah, he chose the NFL over the AFL.

What a snob.

Ravage!!!
09-07-2010, 02:39 PM
Our biggest mistake was overhauling our offense when it was our defense that needed to be fixed. So hiring McD was the biggest mistake, as he led to it all.




Dismantling the '08 offense remains the worst for me though, topping the Maddox fiasco.

I think I want to change my answer to echo these two.

We may very well look back at that dismantling as one of the biggest set-backs in Broncos history.

Lonestar
09-07-2010, 02:49 PM
Not hiring a qualified GM or DC and leaving them alone to do their job.

Jay Culter draft when we needed DT for that matter still do. NT

Not firing slowick

the following drafts.


2007 - Denver Broncos
Rd Sel # Player Position School
1 17 Jarvis Moss DE Florida
2 56 Tim Crowder DE Texas
3 70 Ryan Harris OT Notre Dame a deal considering the rest of the draft
4 121 Marcus Thomas DT Florida





2005 - Denver Broncos
Rd Sel # Player Position School
2 56 Darrent Williams CB Oklahoma State
3 76 Karl Paymah DB Washington State
3 97 Domonique Foxworth CB Maryland
3 101 Maurice Clarett -- Ohio State major fubar
6 200 Chris Myers G Miami (Fla.)
7 239 Paul Ernster K Northern Arizona

2004 - Denver Broncos
Rd Sel # Player Position School

2 41 Tatum Bell RB Oklahoma State
2 54 Darius Watts WR Marshall ONE HANDED WR what a FUBAR this is near the top of the list.

003 - Denver Broncos
Rd Sel # Player Position School
1 20 George Foster T Georgia
2 51 Terry Pierce LB Kansas State
4 108 Quentin Griffin RB Oklahoma
4 114 Nick Eason DT Clemson
4 128 Bryant McNeal DE Clemson
5 157 Ben Claxton C Mississippi
5 158 Adrian Madise WR Texas Christian
6 194 Aaron Hunt -- Texas Tech
7 227 Clint Mitchell DE Florida
7 235 Ahmaad Galloway RB Alabama

WHERE ARE THEY NOW!!!!!
2002 - Denver Broncos
Rd Sel # Player Position School
1 19 Ashley Lelie WR Hawaii
2 51 Clinton Portis RB Miami (Fla.) head case ,but a good deal because we got champ with
3 96 Dorsett Davis DT Mississippi State
4 131 Sam Brandon DB Nevada-Las Vegas
5 144 Herb Haygood WR Michigan State
6 191 Jeb Putzier TE Boise State
7 228 Chris Young DB Georgia Tech
7 231 Monsanto Pope DT Virginia

2001 - Denver Broncos
Rd Sel # Player Position School
1 24 Willie Middlebrooks CB Minnesota
2 51 Paul Toviessi DE Marshall

2000 - Denver Broncos
Rd Sel # Player Position School
1 15 Deltha O'Neal CB California
2 40 Ian Gold LB Michigan
2 45 Kenoy Kennedy SAF Arkansas
3 70 Chris Cole WR Texas A&M
4 101 Jerry Johnson DT Florida State
4 112 Cooper Carlisle G Florida
5 154 Muneer Moore WR Richmond
6 189 Mike Anderson RB Utah great couple of years till he met mary Jane
7 214 Jarious Jackson QB Notre Dame
7 246 Leroy Fields -- Jackson State
1999 - Denver Broncos
Rd Sel # Player Position School
1 Al Wilson
2 58 Montae Reagor DE Texas Tech
2 61 Lennie Friedman C Duke
3 67 Chris Watson CB Eastern Illinois
3 93 Travis McGriff WR Florida

1998 - Denver Broncos
Rd Sel # Player Position School
1 30 Marcus Nash WR Tennessee

1993 - Denver Broncos
Rd Sel # Player Position School
1 11 Dan Williams DE Toledo

1992 - Denver Broncos
Rd Sel # Player Position School
1 25 Tommy Maddox QB UCLA


1991 - Denver Broncos
Rd Sel # Player Position School
1 4 Mike Croel OLB Nebraska
2 30 Reggie Johnson TE Florida State
3 61 Keith Traylor LB Central Oklahoma allowing him to leave.

1978 - Denver Broncos
Rd Sel # Player Position School
1 27 Don Latimer NT Miami (Fla.)

1970 - Denver Broncos
Rd Sel # Player Position School
1 11 Bobby Anderson RB Colorado


lets see FA acquisitions

Quitterson
IHOP DT
Dale Carter.
bringing back Gold to take DJ's spot.

giving Price a mega contract that was not incentified.

Allowing heyward to leave when we could have had him cheap after his 8 sack season.

Well that is about it for now I'm sure others will have their favorites.

Tned
09-07-2010, 02:53 PM
Not hiring a qualified GM or DC and leaving them alone to do their job.

Jay Culter draft when we needed DT for that matter still do. NT



True, if we hadn't made the huge mistake of signing Plummer, then we might not have had to draft Cutler.

I think you would agree that we couldn't keep getting by with the smoke and mirror offense needed to cover up Jake's deficiencies.

Lonestar
09-07-2010, 02:54 PM
I almosty forgot - trading two first round draft picks to the San Diego Chargers for backup QB Steve Tensi in '67. Tensi had a lazer-rocket arm and bum knees; playing behind a bunch of turnstile O-Linemen he was battered out of football after just 4 years


I watched him turn into a shell shocked QB it was to the point I believe I saw him flinch each time the ball was hiked and it was a pass play.

he was a sloth footed guy, I doubt he could out run a snail.

BigDaddyBronco
09-07-2010, 02:56 PM
True, if we hadn't made the huge mistake of signing Plummer, then we might not have had to draft Cutler.

I think you would agree that we couldn't keep getting by with the smoke and mirror offense needed to cover up Jake's deficiencies.

I don't know that smoke and mirrors offense got us to a AFC Championship game while the high powered, hard throwing, super offense got us to 8-8.

Oh wait, I know, it was all the defenses fault.

Mike
09-07-2010, 02:59 PM
I don't know that smoke and mirrors offense got us to a AFC Championship game while the high powered, hard throwing, super offense got us to 8-8.

Oh wait, I know, it was all the defenses fault.

Comeon, dismantling the greatest offense that never was is a travesty.

Lonestar
09-07-2010, 03:03 PM
True, if we hadn't made the huge mistake of signing Plummer, then we might not have had to draft Cutler.

I think you would agree that we couldn't keep getting by with the smoke and mirror offense needed to cover up Jake's deficiencies.

I disagree we needed an OLINE that could pick up the blitz.

You win or lose on the LOS . Jake won a lot of games for us, yes there was smoke and mirrors mostly because of our in ability to stay under the cap with out wasting 5-20 million a year in dead space.

had mikey been able to draft worth a crap we would not have needed to rely on expensive older FA.

There were 6 day one picks during his regime 18% that we resigned to a second contract. Most of his "mistakes" were cut after TC in their third year.

OR the good ones were allowed to leave because we did not have cap space.


I often wondered if they would have had a great GM bringing in talent for his team just how good we could have been with his offensive genius.


But alas we will never know because of the failure during his drafts.

most of the other teams built via the draft and they were long term contenders, while we got our asses kicked in the first round. Second for PIT

Tned
09-07-2010, 03:07 PM
I disagree we needed an OLINE that could pick up the blitz.

You win or lose on the LOS . Jake won a lot of games for us, yes there was smoke and mirrors mostly because of our in ability to stay under the cap with out wasting 5-20 million a year in dead space.


I think one thing we can all agree on is that Jake didn't win a lot of games, but the system won a lot of games. Just like the system made Jay look better than he was, with Kubiak running the Shanahan/Kubiak system, he made Jake look light years better than he was. Granted, he was only a game manager, but Kubiak allowed the Broncos to win a ton of games in spite of Jake being under center.

I Eat Staples
09-07-2010, 03:07 PM
True, if we hadn't made the huge mistake of signing Plummer, then we might not have had to draft Cutler.

I think you would agree that we couldn't keep getting by with the smoke and mirror offense needed to cover up Jake's deficiencies.

I don't understand, that "smoke and mirror" offense took us to the AFC championship.

BigDaddyBronco
09-07-2010, 03:09 PM
I might agree with you JR, but I think that if Shanny had a GM telling him who he could play with does he ever come here in the first place and do we win 2 SB's?

It might have been a necessary evil at the time, but if Bowlen could have forced the issue in say 2001 or 2002 maybe either we could have rebuilt years ago, or Shanny wouldn't have been fired for being a terrible GM.

Ravage!!!
09-07-2010, 03:09 PM
:lol:

He's working on his pot-stirring skills, and it started with the opening post. But he must be getting better, you guys are falling right in!! :lol:

Tned
09-07-2010, 03:10 PM
I don't understand, that "smoke and mirror" offense took us to the AFC championship.

Yes, but as some of our better football minds have pointed out, it wasn't good enough to beat a real team, like Pitt. We got lucky in the NE game, and in the Pitt game when the time came to dispense with the smoke and mirrors and just sit in the pocket ant make plays, Jake was a big fail.

Ravage!!!
09-07-2010, 03:11 PM
Things haven't changed. The relationship with mcd and the GM is the same as it was when Shannahan was here. joshy is in charge, just as Mike was.

Tned
09-07-2010, 03:13 PM
Things haven't changed. The relationship with mcd and the GM is the same as it was when Shannahan was here. joshy is in charge, just as Mike was.

Yep, that's what the beat reporters at Dove Valley every day say is how the Broncos are run.

BigDaddyBronco
09-07-2010, 03:13 PM
Things haven't changed. The relationship with mcd and the GM is the same as it was when Shannahan was here. joshy is in charge, just as Mike was.
Maybe Bowlen doesn't want to pay for a real GM.:noidea:

slim
09-07-2010, 03:15 PM
Things haven't changed. The relationship with mcd and the GM is the same as it was when Shannahan was here. joshy is in charge, just as Mike was.

Good point.

They are both dictators...."my way or the highway" kind of guys.

There are a lot of similarities, when you think about it.

Tned
09-07-2010, 03:16 PM
Good point.

They are both dictators...."my way or the highway" kind of guys.

There are a lot of similarities, when you think about it.

Yep, a ton. I hope 13 years from now we are talking about McDaniels 14 year run as Broncos head coach.

I Eat Staples
09-07-2010, 03:16 PM
I don't know that smoke and mirrors offense got us to a AFC Championship game while the high powered, hard throwing, super offense got us to 8-8.

Oh wait, I know, it was all the defenses fault.

Well in 08, of course it was the defense's fault. They were terrible, no matter how much you slice it out of anti-Jay hatred.


Yes, but as some of our better football minds have pointed out, it wasn't good enough to beat a real team, like Pitt. We got lucky in the NE game, and in the Pitt game when the time came to dispense with the smoke and mirrors and just sit in the pocket ant make plays, Jake was a big fail.

Well yeah, Pittsburgh exposed us, and Jake never was a good pocket passer. But that was just good defensive game-planning, most teams have a few weaknesses and Pitt exposed ours.

Tned
09-07-2010, 03:18 PM
Well yeah, Pittsburgh exposed us, and Jake never was a good pocket passer. But that was just good defensive game-planning, most teams have a few weaknesses and Pitt exposed ours.

I think it's fair to say the Broncos only had one weakness in that AFCCG, which was at QB. Unfortunately, once they had a blueprint for beating Jake, he was done in the NFL. His lousy 2006 proved that point.

BigDaddyBronco
09-07-2010, 03:19 PM
Well in 08, of course it was the defense's fault. They were terrible, no matter how much you slice it out of anti-Jay hatred.



Well yeah, Pittsburgh exposed us, and Jake never was a good pocket passer. But that was just good defensive game-planning, most teams have a few weaknesses and Pitt exposed ours.

Our defense sucked against Pitt as well. Jake did his Jay impersonation and threw a bunch of game killing INT's, but the defense didn't make one 3rd down stop.

weazel
09-07-2010, 03:24 PM
Letting go of Shanahan, the Goodmans, Cutler, Marshall, Sheffler and Hillis when we had a young nucleus of talent that could develop together. I would have loved to see them all together the next year. Good things could have happened for the Broncos.

Monumental mistake if you ask me.


Now were on pace to break records with draft bust.

We ship Sheff because we "don't use pass catching TE's" then trade away pick 14 for a 7th round "pass catching TE" to the SAME TEAM that thought Sheff was an upgrade over the one they shipped us!


Not to mention dead money is starting to pile up with blundered free agent signings.

except they didnt trade "Sheff" (sic) because we dont use pass catching TE's... they traded him because he quit on the team and turned into a douchebag

broncophan
09-07-2010, 03:25 PM
Our defense sucked against Pitt as well. Jake did his Jay impersonation and threw a bunch of game killing INT's, but the defense didn't make one 3rd down stop.

If I remember .....didn't Champ blow an easy int. at a key point in that game??........not blaming him.....just sayin'....

BigDaddyBronco
09-07-2010, 03:26 PM
If I remember .....didn't Champ blow an easy int. at a key point in that game??........not blaming him.....just sayin'....

Never happened. :D

I remember our nickle back getting owned that game. Who was it, Foxworth?

broncophan
09-07-2010, 03:28 PM
Never happened. :D

I remember our nickle back getting owned that game. Who was it, Foxworth?

yea....I think so....:(

slim
09-07-2010, 03:28 PM
I might agree with you JR, but I think that if Shanny had a GM telling him who he could play with does he ever come here in the first place and do we win 2 SB's?

It might have been a necessary evil at the time, but if Bowlen could have forced the issue in say 2001 or 2002 maybe either we could have rebuilt years ago, or Shanny wouldn't have been fired for being a terrible GM.

If shanny had not drafted Jay Cutler he would still be coaching the Broncos. If he holds on to Plummer for a few more years we make the playoffs in '06, '07 or '08 and shanny keeps his job.

It was Cutler's inability to lead this team to the playoffs that ultimately got shanny fired.

I Eat Staples
09-07-2010, 03:28 PM
Our defense sucked against Pitt as well. Jake did his Jay impersonation and threw a bunch of game killing INT's, but the defense didn't make one 3rd down stop.

Our defense sucked for that one game. In 08, our defense sucked the entire year. Worst NFL defense I've ever witnessed.

claymore
09-07-2010, 03:29 PM
If shanny had not drafted Jay Cutler he would still be coaching the Broncos. If he holds on to Plummer for a few more years we make the playoffs in '06, '07 or '08 and shanny keeps his job.

It was Cutler's inability to lead this team to the playoffs that ultimately got shanny fired.

Sweet Geebus Slim!....

BigDaddyBronco
09-07-2010, 03:30 PM
Our defense sucked for that one game. In 08, our defense sucked the entire year. Worst NFL defense I've ever witnessed.
Yea it was painfull. Ever watch any of the KC games a few years ago. They were worse.

BigDaddyBronco
09-07-2010, 03:31 PM
Sweet Geebus Slim!....
That is called a shot across the bow... :laugh:

Tned
09-07-2010, 03:31 PM
except they didnt trade "Sheff" (sic) because we dont use pass catching TE's... they traded him because he quit on the team and turned into a douchebag

I think there is a big difference between "quitting" on the team, which is what Kennison did, and telling a teammate that he wanted out of Denver, after Denver shopped him the previous off season, and rarely used him during the season.

How exactly is that 'quitting on the team'. This isn't the kind of stuff that Jake did, where he could care less if the Broncos won or loss in 2006, Scheffler showed up for every game and clearly gave it his all.

claymore
09-07-2010, 03:32 PM
Yea it was painfull. Ever watch any of the KC games a few years ago. They were worse.

ST's and Dante Mf'en Hall pissed me off worse than the ST's. Gosh damn!

BigDaddyBronco
09-07-2010, 03:32 PM
If shanny had not drafted Jay Cutler he would still be coaching the Broncos. If he holds on to Plummer for a few more years we make the playoffs in '06, '07 or '08 and shanny keeps his job.

It was Cutler's inability to lead this team to the playoffs that ultimately got shanny fired.
What did Tubby call Cutler?

CoK6

Coach Killer #6

claymore
09-07-2010, 03:32 PM
That is called a shot across the bow... :laugh:

That cut me all the way to the white meat!

Mike
09-07-2010, 03:33 PM
ST's and Dante Mf'en Hall pissed me off worse than the ST's. Gosh damn!

The refs even worse than both of those.

BigDaddyBronco
09-07-2010, 03:33 PM
I think there is a big difference between "quitting" on the team, which is what Kennison did, and telling a teammate that he wanted out of Denver, after Denver shopped him the previous off season, and rarely used him during the season.

How exactly is that 'quitting on the team'. This isn't the kind of stuff that Jake did, where he could care less if the Broncos won or loss in 2006, Scheffler showed up for every game and clearly gave it his all.
Hey Jake gave it his all when he was holding for FG's and XP.

slim
09-07-2010, 03:34 PM
That cut me all the way to the white meat!

Sorry Clay.

slim
09-07-2010, 03:35 PM
What did Tubby call Cutler?

CoK6

Coach Killer #6

Lovie will be looking for work soon.

broncophan
09-07-2010, 03:37 PM
I can't remember who we were playing....but a few years ago.....we missed a long field goal.....and an opposing player caught it and ran it back like 109 yards....:(......that's another record that will never be broken....half of our players on the field didn't even try to tackle the guy...

claymore
09-07-2010, 03:37 PM
The refs even worse than both of those.

The maddest ive ever been in my whole life were...

Losing to Jacksonville in the playoffs
Dante Hall
Quentin Griffin caughing it up on the one yard line for the goahead win...
Devin Hester's 2 returns for scores a couple years ago. How in the eff do you kick it to guys like that?

Tned
09-07-2010, 03:38 PM
The refs even worse than both of those.

Yea, on the long punt return, there were at least two clear blocks in the back, but it's like the refs were so mesmerized by his dancing around, they forgot to actually do their job. Even in live action I was screaming, that was a block in the back, and then the replays confirmed it, plus showed another.

BigDaddyBronco
09-07-2010, 03:39 PM
The maddest ive ever been in my whole life were...

Losing to Jacksonville in the playoffs
Dante Hall
Quentin Griffin caughing it up on the one yard line for the goahead win...
Devin Hester's 2 returns for scores a couple years ago. How in the eff do you kick it to guys like that?

I remember my wife telling me to settle down after the 2nd Hester TD. I might have been foaming at the mouth.

BigDaddyBronco
09-07-2010, 03:40 PM
Yea, on the long punt return, there were at least two clear blocks in the back, but it's like the refs were so mesmerized by his dancing around, they forgot to actually do their job. Even in live action I was screaming, that was a block in the back, and then the replays confirmed it, plus showed another.
Ian Gold's was terrible. It was right in front of the friggin play. How do you not call that?

Tned
09-07-2010, 03:41 PM
I can't remember who we were playing....but a few years ago.....we missed a long field goal.....and an opposing player caught it and ran it back like 109 yards....:(......that's another record that will never be broken....half of our players on the field didn't even try to tackle the guy...

Yep, that was bad. Not sure who returned it, but pretty sure it was against the Ravens.

I Eat Staples
09-07-2010, 03:41 PM
except they didnt trade "Sheff" (sic) because we dont use pass catching TE's... they traded him because he quit on the team and turned into a douchebag

You know, you have a point. Maybe I misjudged McD's leadership skills. A good leader does indeed rub off on those around him.


Devin Hester's 2 returns for scores a couple years ago. How in the eff do you kick it to guys like that?

I don't know what you're talking about. After a slow process lasting years, I've succeeded in completely removing that from my memory.

Lonestar
09-07-2010, 03:42 PM
I think it's fair to say the Broncos only had one weakness in that AFCCG, which was at QB. Unfortunately, once they had a blueprint for beating Jake, he was done in the NFL. His lousy 2006 proved that point.

wow can;t beleive your respoding like that .

Anyone that saw the game objectively saw that the Blitzers were meeting Jake before he got to his 5 or 7 steps.

How can that be Jake's fault? the inability to pick up a blitz or pass rusher starts and end on the LOS. Or maybe in the OC mind.

Being an OLD OG I know when the NT and DE's are in the backfield there is only one group that can be blamed. and it is not the QB. When OLB are meeting at the QB before he gets to his spot the TE and RB are not doing their job.

Sorry Jake did his best that day to mitigate the pass rush and blitz but one guy against PIT dose not make it.

claymore
09-07-2010, 03:42 PM
I remember my wife telling me to settle down after the 2nd Hester TD. I might have been foaming at the mouth.

Yeah, Thats one of those games where I looked up and every door in the house was closed, cause noone wanted to be around me.

broncophan
09-07-2010, 03:44 PM
Yep, that was bad. Not sure who returned it, but pretty sure it was against the Ravens.

yea.....seems to me it was a Monday night game....it seems whenever the broncos did stupid crap like that....it was always a nationaly televised game...

Lonestar
09-07-2010, 03:47 PM
If shanny had not drafted Jay Cutler he would still be coaching the Broncos. If he holds on to Plummer for a few more years we make the playoffs in '06, '07 or '08 and shanny keeps his job.

It was Cutler's inability to lead this team to the playoffs that ultimately got shanny fired.

Not so sure I think dingers new drop back passing Offense when he came in started the slide down that slippery slope.


Jake was not suited for pocket passing and it was designed for the new toy jay, but I do agree that mickey must have thought if we scored enough we could beat anyone because once jay came to town the D went into the toilet.

Mike
09-07-2010, 03:47 PM
The maddest ive ever been in my whole life were...

Losing to Jacksonville in the playoffs
Dante Hall
Quentin Griffin caughing it up on the one yard line for the goahead win...
Devin Hester's 2 returns for scores a couple years ago. How in the eff do you kick it to guys like that?

I believe these incidents are why my wife won't watch a game with me anymore. Well, she says I am getting better...but I think that is mostly because I have low expectations now.

Tned
09-07-2010, 03:48 PM
wow can;t beleive your respoding like that .

Anyone that saw the game objectively saw that the Blitzers were meeting Jake before he got to his 5 or 7 steps.

How can that be Jake's fault? the inability to pick up a blitz or pass rusher starts and end on the LOS. Or maybe in the OC mind.


It was his fault because Kubiak and company had to design an offense to fit Jake's limited skill set (not to mention, shrinking the playbook, because of said skill set and his propensity for bonehead plays). Then, when the Broncos were beaten late in the season, other teams had a blueprint of how to beat the Broncos. Contain Jake in the pocket, and he would fold like a house of cards on a windy day.

Ultimately, it was Shanahan and Kubiak's fault for building an offense around a lousy QB, which was ok for racking up regular season wins, but not for winning the tough games. We would have been better off with Griese back there.

slim
09-07-2010, 03:49 PM
I believe these incidents are why my wife won't watch a game with me anymore. Well, she says I am getting better...but I think that is mostly because I have low expectations now.

Take notes, young men.

This is how you build a successful relationship.

dogfish
09-07-2010, 03:50 PM
I can't remember who we were playing....but a few years ago.....we missed a long field goal.....and an opposing player caught it and ran it back like 109 yards....:(......that's another record that will never be broken....half of our players on the field didn't even try to tackle the guy...

it was a sunday night or MNF game against the bears-- the player was nathan vasher, and i believe that record actually WAS broken when ed reed or cromartie had a return from deeper in the endzone. . . .

Mike
09-07-2010, 03:50 PM
We would have been better off with Griese back there.

:tape:

I Eat Staples
09-07-2010, 03:50 PM
yea.....seems to me it was a Monday night game....it seems whenever the broncos did stupid crap like that....it was always a nationaly televised game...

Yeah I know it was Monday night, I didn't remember the team though.

weazel
09-07-2010, 03:51 PM
I think there is a big difference between "quitting" on the team, which is what Kennison did, and telling a teammate that he wanted out of Denver, after Denver shopped him the previous off season, and rarely used him during the season.

How exactly is that 'quitting on the team'. This isn't the kind of stuff that Jake did, where he could care less if the Broncos won or loss in 2006, Scheffler showed up for every game and clearly gave it his all.

actually his words were more along the lines of saying he wished the season was over... not just that he wanted out. Either way, he got his wish. Why is that on the team?

nevcraw
09-07-2010, 03:52 PM
Didn't she go on to have success on a sitcom? oh,, that's right, that was NELL Carter.

good comparison - both were cokeheads.

Ravage!!!
09-07-2010, 03:52 PM
Yeah I know it was Monday night, I didn't remember the team though.

Definitely the Ravens.....:tsk:

nevcraw
09-07-2010, 03:55 PM
Not having a sniper take out Michael dean Perry as he sauntered off the field.


Didn't read them all but in case it was not mentioned - Deltha Oneil.

Tned
09-07-2010, 03:55 PM
actually his words were more along the lines of saying he wished the season was over... not just that he wanted out. Either way, he got his wish. Why is that on the team?

I didn't say it was "on the team", just that you are factually incorrect when you say he quit the team. Based on what we know, that is a 100% false statement.

Lonestar
09-07-2010, 03:58 PM
Originally Posted by Tned
I think there is a big difference between "quitting" on the team, which is what Kennison did, and telling a teammate that he wanted out of Denver, after Denver shopped him the previous off season, and rarely used him during the season.

How exactly is that 'quitting on the team'. This isn't the kind of stuff that Jake did, where he could care less if the Broncos won or loss in 2006, Scheffler showed up for every game and clearly gave it his all.

not sure what games you were watching but I never once saw Jake do anything but hustle and try to win games all the while trying to help his replacement learn the game. Knowing that he was going to be replaced.

the only thing that MIGHT be contributed as giving up on the team was retiring after he had enough crap from his HC and that was before they tried to weazel a trade on him. Talk about stabbing a winning player in the back.

So he had the last laugh married a hottie and is living the good life instead of getting beat up every sunday.

TXBRONC
09-07-2010, 03:58 PM
I actually liked Gold but definitely in the minority here.

I liked Gold and he thought he played alright until about the last year or two of his career when seems his skills deteriorated.

I Eat Staples
09-07-2010, 03:58 PM
it was a sunday night or MNF game against the bears-- the player was nathan vasher, and i believe that record actually WAS broken when ed reed or cromartie had a return from deeper in the endzone. . . .

Cromartie has the longest play in NFL history, which cannot be broken.

Tned
09-07-2010, 03:59 PM
Didn't read them all but in case it was not mentioned - Deltha Oneil.

Crazy thing is that O'Neil had a couple good years with the Bengals after he left.

Still can't get the Monday night game out of my head, where the Broncos were leading, and the Patriots backed up to their own goal line on 4th down, snapped the ball out of the endzone for an intentional safety. Then, on the free kick, O'neal lets the kick go over his head, and when he finally corrals it, they have the Broncos down on their own 20 or so, rather than mid-field (or better) as it should have been on a free kick. That was pretty much the end for Deltha, there was no getting out of Shanahan's dog house after that.

broncophan
09-07-2010, 04:02 PM
it was a sunday night or MNF game against the bears-- the player was nathan vasher, and i believe that record actually WAS broken when ed reed or cromartie had a return from deeper in the endzone. . . .

wow....well thats good.....one less "bad" record the broncos have been on the wrong end of.

Tned
09-07-2010, 04:02 PM
not sure what games you were watching but I never once saw Jake do anything but hustle and try to win games all the while trying to help his replacement learn the game. Knowing that he was going to be replaced.

the only thing that MIGHT be contributed as giving up on the team was retiring after he had enough crap from his HC and that was before they tried to weazel a trade on him. Talk about stabbing a winning player in the back.

So he had the last laugh married a hottie and is living the good life instead of getting beat up every sunday.

Come on, the NFL had a blueprint to beat Jake, keep him in the pocket. Knowing his career was over, between Jake looking over his shoulder and the other teams not falling for the smoke and mirrors, he was just going through the motions. If it wasn't for an unbelievable defense to start the season (on pace for fewest points given up, if I remember correctly), he might not have won a single game that year.

He folded like a Gyro in the hands of a Greek master.

BigDaddyBronco
09-07-2010, 04:02 PM
it was a sunday night or MNF game against the bears-- the player was nathan vasher, and i believe that record actually WAS broken when ed reed or cromartie had a return from deeper in the endzone. . . .
Holy crap! I saw that Vasher was cut this weekend and I was like, "where have I heard that name before." That is like having a flashback to when your heart was first broken.

Buff
09-07-2010, 04:02 PM
Crazy thing is that O'Neil had a couple good years with the Bengals after he left.

Still can't get the Monday night game out of my head, where the Broncos were leading, and the Patriots backed up to their own goal line on 4th down, snapped the ball out of the endzone for an intentional safety. Then, on the free kick, O'neal lets the kick go over his head, and when he finally corrals it, they have the Broncos down on their own 20 or so, rather than mid-field (or better) as it should have been on a free kick. That was pretty much the end for Deltha, there was no getting out of Shanahan's dog house after that.

He also got beat for the game winning TD a few minutes later IIRC.

Lonestar
09-07-2010, 04:03 PM
Crazy thing is that O'Neil had a couple good years with the Bengals after he left.

Still can't get the Monday night game out of my head, where the Broncos were leading, and the Patriots backed up to their own goal line on 4th down, snapped the ball out of the endzone for an intentional safety. Then, on the free kick, O'neal lets the kick go over his head, and when he finally corrals it, they have the Broncos down on their own 20 or so, rather than mid-field (or better) as it should have been on a free kick. That was pretty much the end for Deltha, there was no getting out of Shanahan's dog house after that.

delta could not let a good or bad play go would run one back and then the next play give it back on bad coverage.

A great athlete but totally unsuited to be on an island by himself. CB and QB have to have short memories.

Tned
09-07-2010, 04:06 PM
He also got beat for the game winning TD a few minutes later IIRC.

You're probably right. I remember that being a MAJOR **** up game for him, so I bet giving up the TD capped it off. We were up like three points, they do the intentional safety -- we're up by 5 points. They kick the free kick which O'neil screws up, and NE quickly gets the ball back and scores -- but, I don't remember the score itself. The safety (hitting the field goal upright) and the free kick over O'neil's head are indelibly burned into my brain.

Tned
09-07-2010, 04:08 PM
delta could not let a good or bad play go would run one back and then the next play give it back on bad coverage.

A great athlete but totally unsuited to be on an island by himself. CB and QB have to have short memories.

Yep, great description of him. Great athlete, who could make great plays in the return game or at CB, but not really a great CB. I think the reason he thrived in Cincy those two or three years is they played a very aggressive defense, which suited his high risk/high reward style of play.

topscribe
09-07-2010, 04:09 PM
You guys are mostly talking mistakes on choosing specific players, either by FA or in the draft. And I agree there are too many questionable choices and a whole lot of failure.

I think the biggest single mistake in the history of the franchise is tearing down the old Mile High Stadium. the place was full of loud, noisy and totally cool football awesomeness. And that's just from TV because I've never attended a Broncos game in Denver.

Our home field advantage went bye bye as soon as we started playing at Invesco Field at Mile High.

And that, at least from this fan's perspective, is the single worst decision ever in Broncos Football, again, from a fan's standpoint. It may have worked out for Bowlen from a business standpoint, but it does not work as a fan of Broncos football.

Its structure could terrorize you. The fans would get to stomping, and the
stands would just shake. The noise could get deafening, especially when the
Raiders were in town. Between that and the altitude, the other team was
already behind the eight ball before the opening kickoff . . ..

-----

Lonestar
09-07-2010, 04:09 PM
Come on, the NFL had a blueprint to beat Jake, keep him in the pocket. Knowing his career was over, between Jake looking over his shoulder and the other teams not falling for the smoke and mirrors, he was just going through the motions. If it wasn't for an unbelievable defense to start the season (on pace for fewest points given up, if I remember correctly), he might not have won a single game that year.

He folded like a Gyro in the hands of a Greek master.

Well I guess we were watching different teams because the one I saw had Jake playing out of the pocket where he had NEVER be comfortable with , we all knew at the time it was designed for jay.

Jake gave it his all every game every play. if you dd not see that it must have been because you were itching for jay to start.

Even late in the season when he went in for Jay he did not lay down keep putting his body out there trying to win games. He never quit on his team mates.

If your unable to see that then we have nothing else to discuss on the matter. will have to agree to disagree.

Lonestar
09-07-2010, 04:11 PM
Its structure could terrorize you. The fans would get to stomping, and the
stands would just shake. The noise could get deafening, especially when the
Raiders were in town. Between that and the altitude, the other team was
already behind the eight ball before the opening kickoff . . ..

-----

hell I used to be in that top level I was scared half the time that the thing would collapse.

The only thing I knew was that I would be on the top of it all was like 8 rows from the top. :laugh::laugh::laugh::laugh:

topscribe
09-07-2010, 04:14 PM
I think one thing we can all agree on is that Jake didn't win a lot of games, but the system won a lot of games. Just like the system made Jay look better than he was, with Kubiak running the Shanahan/Kubiak system, he made Jake look light years better than he was. Granted, he was only a game manager, but Kubiak allowed the Broncos to win a ton of games in spite of Jake being under center.

To a degree. I prefer to think that Kubiak's system made Jake as good as he
was, at what he was good at. (What did I just say? :confused: ) The threat
of bootlegs and rollouts made Jake look better even in the pocket. Jake could
throw on the run with anybody. Period.

Where Jake was bad, he was a liability. But where he was good, he was really
good. In 2005, Jake and Kubes finally figured out how to use Jake's strengths.
But Kubes left, and Dinger came to town, and it was all over. IMO.

-----

broncophan
09-07-2010, 04:15 PM
Its structure could terrorize you. The fans would get to stomping, and the
stands would just shake. The noise could get deafening, especially when the
Raiders were in town. Between that and the altitude, the other team was
already behind the eight ball before the opening kickoff . . ..

-----

never there to see a bronco game....wish I had been able to....

the memories here in Ohio......of the 4:00 Sunday afternoon game being the Broncos playing at Mile High.....and seeing the cameras shake....and listening to Enberg and Merlin Olsen go on and on about how loud it was and how the whole place would shake...great memories..........sorry....for being off topic...

GGMoogly
09-07-2010, 04:16 PM
Different blunders in different areas at different times:

FO - not hiring a GM for Reeves, Shanny, and McD
Reeves - not keeping Shanny (one of the GREATEST offensive minds ever to coach) and crappy ST.
Shanny - not sticking with one (halfway capable) DC and crappy ST.
McD - yeah, well...he got us Tebow, besides crappy ST.

Free agents - Gotta put Carter and Gardner on top (special place in Hell reserved for Eddie "the Quitter" Kennison :mad:) I liked the Snake and the passion he brought, but not necessarily the left handed ints. (I actually chuckle now when I watch that one - :lol: EPIC FAIL)

Draft - The unseen T. Gregory is my pick for the worst, but there have been so many (Nash, Middlebrooks, et al.) I DON'T think M. Clarett was that big of a blunder. Sure, he's a criminal, but it was only a 3rd rounder. I didn't lose any sleep over it. Maddox? More of a JaMarcus-type that we didn't need, but he wasn't that horrible and he did have the one great year in Pittsburgh.

Tned
09-07-2010, 04:18 PM
Well I guess we were watching different teams because the one I saw had Jake playing out of the pocket where he had NEVER be comfortable with , we all knew at the time it was designed for jay.

Jake gave it his all every game every play. if you dd not see that it must have been because you were itching for jay to start.

Even late in the season when he went in for Jay he did not lay down keep putting his body out there trying to win games. He never quit on his team mates.

If your unable to see that then we have nothing else to discuss on the matter. will have to agree to disagree.

You know I liked Jake. I think he gave it all he had most games, but he just kind of sucked as a QB. As you say, he couldn't play from the pocket. Last time I checked, that's kind of a prerequisite for playing the QB position.

While Kubiak and Shanahan did a great job of shrinking the playbook, and having him work only half the field (the half he rolled out to), and turned him into a decent "game manager", once he was forced to stay in the pocket and be a quarterback, vs. a running quarterback, nothing good happened.

I'm not saying he pulled a Kennison and walked out, but it was clear that he was done and couldn't handle the pressure of the first round pick looking over his shoulder.

When things got tough, Jake folded like a piece of Brooklyn pizza.

topscribe
09-07-2010, 04:19 PM
Well I guess we were watching different teams because the one I saw had Jake playing out of the pocket where he had NEVER be comfortable with , we all knew at the time it was designed for jay.

Jake gave it his all every game every play. if you dd not see that it must have been because you were itching for jay to start.

Even late in the season when he went in for Jay he did not lay down keep putting his body out there trying to win games. He never quit on his team mates.

If your unable to see that then we have nothing else to discuss on the matter. will have to agree to disagree.

I guess a lot of people have forgotten how many games in a row Jake went
without an interception in 2005. Jake was a HUGE reason the Broncos won
that year.

-----

Northman
09-07-2010, 04:20 PM
I guess a lot of people have forgotten how many games in a row Jake went
without an interception in 2005. Jake was a HUGE reason the Broncos won
that year.

-----

He was part of it just like he was a HUGE reason we lost the AFCCG too.

Bosco
09-07-2010, 04:22 PM
No need to crank up the "Mike Shanahan Draft Day **** Ups" highlight reel as that's pretty well covered here, so I'll skip ahead.

- Letting Darrien Gordon and Steve Atwater leave so that we could sign Dale Carter. Not only did we lose a couple good players, we also brought a cancer into the locker room that mingled for years after Carter was gone. That cancer claimed the football lives of two promising youngsters, Darrius Johnson and David Bowens.

- Mike Shanahan's extremely bloated and confusing coaching staffs during the last half of his career. I've talked to several people, a former player included, who have stated that the hierarchy of Shanahan's staff was the proverbial "left hand doesn't know what the right hand is doing" which was particularly troublesome for the rookies and younger players that were constantly receiving conflicting and contradictory coaching.

- Speaking of coaching staff **** ups, how about Bob Slowik? Not only did Shanahan feel he deserved to be promoted to DC despite failing in the same role with three different teams, he essentially fired his new, well respected DC (Bates) midseason to put Slowik in that position even though we had spent three of our four 2007 draft picks on defensive linemen to run his scheme. Shanahan then watched Slowik make the 2007 defense progressively worse, which continued into 2008 and then felt he somehow had the right to declare that Slowik would be back for 2009 without even consulting Bowlen.

- Not firing Jacob Burney. Bob Slowik holds the title for absolute worst coaching hire under Shanahan, but Burney is a close second. He never really taught his players anything as his preferred coaching method seemed to be to yell and scream at them and hope they figured it out themselves. It's my opinion that he is nearly as responsible for our horrible defensive lines as Shanahan was for not stocking them with better talent.

- Not doing a better job of keeping veteran leadership on the team. This lack of leadership on the team has been well documented as a huge problem and had that not happened, it's very likely that Cutler and Scheffler don't develop the attitude that they are above the team and would not have been shipped out of town.

- Letting our special teams degrade to a laughable state. No further explanation needed.

Josh McDaniels has a few as well, and while they're nowhere near as catastrophic as the above, I must mention them out of fairness.

- Hiring Mike Nolan and making him change his scheme. Josh should have either accepted Nolan as he was or hired someone better from the start, like Dom Capers, which was my preference. Water under the bridge though, as I really like Don Martindale.

- Not cracking down on Scheffler much earlier. Josh might have been able to salvage this situation had Scheffler been given his attitude adjustment early on instead of at the end of the season.

broncophan
09-07-2010, 04:23 PM
I guess a lot of people have forgotten how many games in a row Jake went
without an interception in 2005. Jake was a HUGE reason the Broncos won
that year.

-----

I appreciate the amount of wins he and the broncos had while he was here..........didn't really appreciate him flipping off the fan(s) though....

topscribe
09-07-2010, 04:24 PM
You know I liked Jay. I think he gave it all he had most games, but he just kind of sucked as a QB. As you say, he couldn't play from the pocket. Last time I checked, that's kind of a prerequisite for playing the QB position.

While Kubiak and Shanahan did a great job of shrinking the playbook, and having him work only half the field (the half he rolled out to), and turned him into a decent "game manager", once he was forced to stay in the pocket and be a quarterback, vs. a running quarterback, nothing good happened.

I'm not saying he pulled a Kennison and walked out, but it was clear that he was done and couldn't handle the pressure of the first round pick looking over his shoulder.

When things got tough, Jake folded like a piece of Brooklyn pizza.

I don't believe that was it. He was down here, where I am, playing for the
Cardinals for years. You think things didn't get tough for him here?

Jake didn't fold from pressure. He just lost his desire to play football - his
"want-to," as Dawk and Doom like to put it. Jake showed that by his
unconditional retirement. He was smart. He saw that, and he got out. And he
never came back, even though it cost him millions, even though Gruden made
a personal flight up to Idaho to try to persuade him to come back.

-----

topscribe
09-07-2010, 04:25 PM
I appreciate the amount of wins he and the broncos had while he was here..........didn't really appreciate him flipping off the fan(s) though....

Personally, I enjoyed that. As I stated elsewhere, I KNOW the ONE fan he
flipped off, and the fan had it coming. Didn't bother me at all . . .

-----

Northman
09-07-2010, 04:27 PM
Jake didn't fold from pressure. He just lost his desire to play football - his
"want-to," as Dawk and Doom like to put it. J

-----

Yep, he quit because he no longer was the starter and when he got traded to Tampa didnt want to compete for a starting job.

broncophan
09-07-2010, 04:29 PM
Romanowski spitting in Stokes face.........not sure if that had been mentioned......but that was pretty bad....

Tned
09-07-2010, 04:30 PM
I don't believe that was it. He was down here, where I am, playing for the
Cardinals for years. You think things didn't get tough for him here?

Jake didn't fold from pressure. He just lost his desire to play football - his
"want-to," as Dawk and Doom like to put it. Jake showed that by his
unconditional retirement. He was smart. He saw that, and he got out. And he
never came back, even though it cost him millions, even though Gruden made
a personal flight up to Idaho to try to persuade him to come back.

-----

I always hated how close the names Jay and Jake were. Between good Jake, bad Jake, sober Jay and drunk Jay, that was a whole lot of J's to keep track of.

Anyway, the post you responded to should have said, "I like Jake", which I think everyone probably got from context.

I agree, his heart wasn't in football anymore, and I applaud him for getting out while he was still reasonably healthy, since he didn't enjoy the game anymore, and after realizing that when the team needed him most, Jake folded like space in a good sci fi movie.

topscribe
09-07-2010, 04:31 PM
Yep, he quit because he no longer was the starter and when he got traded to Tampa didnt want to compete for a starting job.

You can believe what you want. But Jake gave up about $6 million, IIRC, to
stay out of football. That is a powerful lot of not wanting to compete. Now, if
the fire for football in general is gone, then of course he didn't want to compete
for a starting job. After all, you're going to compete for something only if you
really want it. He didn't want it anymore. To this day, he said he never misses
it, and he's never looked back. I admire him for recognizing there is more to life
than playing football . . .

-----

BroncoWave
09-07-2010, 04:32 PM
Yep, he quit because he no longer was the starter and when he got traded to Tampa didnt want to compete for a starting job.

Isn't that more noble then cheating the Bucs out of money while being out their playing a game that he no longer had a love and commitment for?

Ravage!!!
09-07-2010, 04:33 PM
which is probably a big reason we drafted a 1st round QB to replace him.

Northman
09-07-2010, 04:34 PM
You can believe what you want. But Jake gave up about $6 million, IIRC, to
stay out of football. That is a powerful lot of not wanting to compete. Now, if
the fire for football in general is gone, then of course he didn't want to compete
for a starting job. After all, you're going to compete for something only if you
really want it. He didn't want it anymore. To this day, he said he never misses
it, and he's never looked back. I admire him for recognizing there is more to life
than playing football . . .

-----

Not that powerful, he already had made a crapload of money so he was already set for life. As too his "never looking back" you can buy that crap all you want. Pretty funny that all of a sudden HE DIDNT WANT TO PLAY after being benched and traded without a starting guarantee. I hope he's happy, he did the best he could with his limitations so i will always appreciate that but no one is going to try and sell me that he just all of a sudden woke up one day and lost the desire. He had help along the way when it came to making that decision.

topscribe
09-07-2010, 04:34 PM
I always hated how close the names Jay and Jake were. Between good Jake, bad Jake, sober Jay and drunk Jay, that was a whole lot of J's to keep track of.

Anyway, the post you responded to should have said, "I like Jake", which I think everyone probably got from context.

I agree, his heart wasn't in football anymore, and I applaud him for getting out while he was still reasonably healthy, since he didn't enjoy the game anymore, and after realizing that when the team needed him most, he folded like space in a good sci fi movie.

Yes, I liked Jake. I liked Griese, until he lost his marbles. I liked Jay - still do,
actually. You know how I feel about Kyle. And of course, whether I liked You
Know Who was a no-brainer.

They all have had their redeeming qualities. I guess that's what I tend to look at. :shrugs:

-----

Northman
09-07-2010, 04:35 PM
Isn't that more noble then cheating the Bucs out of money while being out their playing a game that he no longer had a love and commitment for?

Uh yea, i guess. Doesnt change the fact that he just didnt want to compete. :confused:

slim
09-07-2010, 04:36 PM
Do you guys remember when a rookie QB took over a 7-4 team and lead them to an 8-8 record?

I can't remember his name, but I think he replaced Jake Plummer. Man, what a mistake that was.

BroncoWave
09-07-2010, 04:36 PM
Not that powerful, he already had made a crapload of money so he was already set for life. As too his "never looking back" you can buy that crap all you want. Pretty funny that all of a sudden HE DIDNT WANT TO PLAY after being benched and traded without a starting guarantee. I hope he's happy, he did the best he could with his limitations so i will always appreciate that but no one is going to try and sell me that he just all of a sudden woke up one day and lost the desire. He had help along the way when it came to making that decision.

Why is that so hard to believe? That has happened to several pro athletes.

BroncoWave
09-07-2010, 04:37 PM
Uh yea, i guess. Doesnt change the fact that he just didnt want to compete. :confused:

Why is that a bad thing?

Northman
09-07-2010, 04:37 PM
Why is that so hard to believe? That has happened to several pro athletes.


Because i dont believe it, the timetable doesnt support anything else.

Northman
09-07-2010, 04:39 PM
Why is that a bad thing?

What quitting? I dont know, i dont like quitters especially under those circumstances.

Tned
09-07-2010, 04:39 PM
Yes, I liked Jake. I liked Griese, until he lost his marbles. I liked Jay - still do,
actually. You know how I feel about Kyle. And of course, whether I liked You
Know Who was a no-brainer.

They all have had their redeeming qualities. I guess that's what I tend to look at. :shrugs:

-----

I wish Jake had found Brian's marbles after the AFCCG embarrassment and the first round QB selection that followed. It would have been nice for Jake to show a pair and actually give Jay a run for his money in terms of the starting job.

Instead, Jake just folded like a beach chair at the end of summer....

BroncoWave
09-07-2010, 04:40 PM
What quitting? I dont know, i dont like quitters especially under those circumstances.

Every single player in NFL history has retired at some point. Are they all quitters too?

Ravage!!!
09-07-2010, 04:40 PM
Do you guys remember when a rookie QB took over a 7-4 team and lead them to an 8-8 record?

I can't remember his name, but I think he replaced Jake Plummer. Man, what a mistake that was.

Funny... I consider that one of its crowning moments! Our rookie QB came in and IMPROVED the offense in scoring and set a rookie NFL record for throwing multible TDs! That was the moment when I saw that the Broncos weren't willing to settle for mediocre/average talent behind center, and move forward to a next, YOUNG, generation that had tons up upside.

Now.. once again we are with the same kind of QB bheind center, and once more drafting a QB to move forward.

Northman
09-07-2010, 04:41 PM
Do you guys remember when a rookie QB took over a 7-4 team and lead them to an 8-8 record?

I can't remember his name, but I think he replaced Jake Plummer. Man, what a mistake that was.

Yea, phew! We were really blowing up the league thats for sure. Even when Jake came back in his first pass was a INT. Captain comeback....errr...wait. :lol:

slim
09-07-2010, 04:41 PM
Every single player in NFL history has retired at some point. Are they all quitters too?

This is not a true statement.

Exhibit A - Brett Farve.

Northman
09-07-2010, 04:41 PM
Every single player in NFL history has retired at some point. Are they all quitters too?


Did they all retire after not being handed a starting job? I think not. :lol:

spikerman
09-07-2010, 04:42 PM
You're probably right. I remember that being a MAJOR **** up game for him, so I bet giving up the TD capped it off. We were up like three points, they do the intentional safety -- we're up by 5 points. They kick the free kick which O'neil screws up, and NE quickly gets the ball back and scores -- but, I don't remember the score itself. The safety (hitting the field goal upright) and the free kick over O'neil's head are indelibly burned into my brain.

If I recall correctly, O'Neal gave up the go-ahead TD pass as well.

BroncoWave
09-07-2010, 04:42 PM
This is not a true statement.

Exhibit A - Brett Farve.

Obviously not including current players. But thanks for that captain smartass! :salute:

topscribe
09-07-2010, 04:42 PM
Not that powerful, he already had made a crapload of money so he was already set for life. As too his "never looking back" you can buy that crap all you want. Pretty funny that all of a sudden HE DIDNT WANT TO PLAY after being benched and traded without a starting guarantee. I hope he's happy, he did the best he could with his limitations so i will always appreciate that but no one is going to try and sell me that he just all of a sudden woke up one day and lost the desire. He had help along the way when it came to making that decision.

What makes you think it was "all of the sudden"? How do you know what was
going through his mind for a long time? YOU are the one claiming he "just all of a
sudden woke up one day and lost his desire." Did you ever bother to find out, or
are you just talking out of one side of your imagination?

The fact is, Jake himself commented he never was entirely devoted to football.
He said he always knew there were other things he'd rather be doing, and
what he has done since seems to verify that.

You can go on imagining that Jake lost heart all you want. But I don't believe
that for a minute. I believe he never did have the heart for football, to the
degree he needed, anyway.

That doesn't mean he didn't play his heart out on the field, because he did.
It's just that it was getting close to time, and the events in 2006 comprised
the catalyst to the inevitable.

That's my take, anyway . . .

-----

BroncoWave
09-07-2010, 04:43 PM
Did they all retire after not being handed a starting job? I think not. :lol:

What proof do you have that that was his reasoning, other than your biased point of view?

slim
09-07-2010, 04:43 PM
Funny... I consider that one of its crowning moments! Our rookie QB came in and IMPROVED the offense in scoring and set a rookie NFL record for throwing multible TDs! That was the moment when I saw that the Broncos weren't willing to settle for mediocre/average talent behind center, and move forward to a next, YOUNG, generation that had tons up upside.

Yes, the 1-4 finish to that season was quite an achievment.

I was thrilled as well!!

Northman
09-07-2010, 04:43 PM
Funny... I consider that one of its crowning moments! Our rookie QB came in and IMPROVED the offense in scoring and set a rookie NFL record for throwing multible TDs! That was the moment when I saw that the Broncos weren't willing to settle for mediocre/average talent behind center, and move forward to a next, YOUNG, generation that had tons up upside.

Well, why should a rookie get any slack when a 8 year vet couldnt get it done?

Tned
09-07-2010, 04:44 PM
Do you guys remember when a rookie QB took over a 7-4 team and lead them to an 8-8 record?

I can't remember his name, but I think he replaced Jake Plummer. Man, what a mistake that was.

Yep, I do. Because Jake quit on his team, they had to throw Jay into the fire before he was ready. Combine that with a defense that came crashing back down to earth after their incredible start, and it was almost as bad an ending as last year's 2-8 finish.

I still wonder what type of QB Jay might have turned into if Jake hadn't folded like a single in a G-string.

Northman
09-07-2010, 04:44 PM
What proof do you have that that was his reasoning, other than your biased point of view?

None, just like no one can prove that it wasnt. On this board its all opinions so what is your point here? :lol:

slim
09-07-2010, 04:44 PM
Obviously not including current players. But thanks for that captain smartass! :salute:

Exhibit B - Korey Stringer

Ravage!!!
09-07-2010, 04:44 PM
so then, instead of NOT taking TBs money because he knew he wasn't devoted...he just took the Broncos money when not being devoted. Hmmmm..that kinda sucks.

BroncoWave
09-07-2010, 04:44 PM
Exhibit B - Korey Stringer

:tsk:

Northman
09-07-2010, 04:45 PM
What makes you think it was "all of the sudden"? How do you know what was
going through his mind for a long time? YOU are the one claiming he "just all of a
sudden woke up one day and lost his desire." Did you ever bother to find out, or
are you just talking out of one side of your imagination?

The fact is, Jake himself commented he never was entirely devoted to football.
He said he always knew there were other things he'd rather be doing, and
what he has done since seems to verify that.

You can go on imagining that Jake lost heart all you want. But I don't believe
that for a minute. I believe he never did have the heart for football, to the
degree he needed, anyway.

That doesn't mean he didn't play his heart out on the field, because he did.
It's just that it was getting close to time, and the events in 2006 comprised
the catalyst to the inevitable.

That's my take, anyway . . .

-----

And we disagree. Welcome to internet forums.

Ravage!!!
09-07-2010, 04:45 PM
Yes, the 1-4 finish to that season was quite an achievment.

I was thrilled as well!!

The team was bad....for sure. I was just thrilled to see some upside to such a horrible offensive team that year. Was nice to actually see a QB on the field that cared.

topscribe
09-07-2010, 04:46 PM
I wish Jake had found Brian's marbles after the AFCCG embarrassment and the first round QB selection that followed. It would have been nice for Jake to show a pair and actually give Jay a run for his money in terms of the starting job.

Instead, Jake just folded like a beach chair at the end of summer....

If you say so. :whoknows:

As the song goes, "You've got to know when to hold them, know when to fold
them." I believe Jake just knew it was time. If you don't have the desire, you
don't have the desire. When the fire has gone out, it's not going to heat up
anything. I believe that is where Jake finally found himself: a fire that long had
flickered, and now finally had died . . .

-----

spikerman
09-07-2010, 04:46 PM
I can't remember who we were playing....but a few years ago.....we missed a long field goal.....and an opposing player caught it and ran it back like 109 yards....:(......that's another record that will never be broken....half of our players on the field didn't even try to tackle the guy...

I'm pretty sure it was Chris McAlister

BroncoWave
09-07-2010, 04:46 PM
None, just like no one can prove that it wasnt. On this board its all opinions so what is your point here? :lol:

You are the one making the claim, and when there is a claim made that usually means there is a burden of proof. I am making no claims, I am simply taking him at his word. Given that, I'm not the one who has to prove anything. You have to prove that he's lying.

slim
09-07-2010, 04:47 PM
The team was bad....for sure. I was just thrilled to see some upside to such a horrible offensive team that year. Was nice to actually see a QB on the field that cared.

Yeah, 13-3 team the year before. They were horrible.

topscribe
09-07-2010, 04:47 PM
And we disagree. Welcome to internet forums.

Well, my take is that you are arguing from the standpoint of a football fan.

I'm arguing from the human perspective . . .

-----

Northman
09-07-2010, 04:48 PM
You are the one making the claim, and when there is a claim made that usually means there is a burden of proof. I am making no claims, I am simply taking him at his word. Given that, I'm not the one who has to prove anything. You have to prove that he's lying.

Um, no i dont. I can choose to believe him or not believe him. WTF :lol:

Ravage!!!
09-07-2010, 04:48 PM
You are the one making the claim, and when there is a claim made that usually means there is a burden of proof. I am making no claims, I am simply taking him at his word. Given that, I'm not the one who has to prove anything. You have to prove that he's lying.

Not really. He has the opinion that he's simply not divulging everything to the public. He doesn't have to prove an opinion.

Tned
09-07-2010, 04:48 PM
What makes you think it was "all of the sudden"? How do you know what was
going through his mind for a long time? YOU are the one claiming he "just all of a
sudden woke up one day and lost his desire." Did you ever bother to find out, or
are you just talking out of one side of your imagination?

The fact is, Jake himself commented he never was entirely devoted to football.
He said he always knew there were other things he'd rather be doing, and
what he has done since seems to verify that.

You can go on imagining that Jake lost heart all you want. But I don't believe
that for a minute. I believe he never did have the heart for football, to the
degree he needed, anyway.

That doesn't mean he didn't play his heart out on the field, because he did.
It's just that it was getting close to time, and the events in 2006 comprised
the catalyst to the inevitable.

That's my take, anyway . . .

-----

I agree 100%. There is no doubt in my mind that he did just all of a sudden decide to quit after being traded to TB. It was clear the entire year before that he had all but quit already. He was going through the motions and drawing a paycheck, biding his time, knowing that his days as a starting QB were over.

Since I like Jake (not liked), it was hard for me to watch Jake fold like the three fingers on his hand that he wasn't using to flip off Broncos fans.

HORSEPOWER 56
09-07-2010, 04:49 PM
fun thread.

a few things stick out instantly: the broncos drafted dick butkus? how did they let him leave? anyone know? also, this list is so weighted to the near past that it's hard to believe many of these moves were as bad as the ones the broncos made in the pre-orange crush era. those teams were terrible. had to be some bad personnel moves.

a few people mentioned lelie. uh, the guy did have a 1000 yard season for the broncos. hardly a bad move. if my memory is correct, anthony miller and mike pritchard never did that for the broncos - much worse moves, in my opinion.

somebody said plummer wasn't a winner. i believe he's the franchise's qb with the highest winning percentage, which means he is a winner.

I think Butkus was before the merger and he chose to play in the NFL vice the AFL. I could be wrong, though.

I saw someone mention Lenny Walls... wasn't he an UDFA? Those guys are lucky to make the squad anyway, I'd hardly call him a bust. After all, he started more games than Alphonso Smith.

Maddox, only because he was a first rounder. I think that was just Reeves being PO'd at Elway and hoping Maddox could take the job so he could trade John away.

Most of the drafts and FA periods Shanahan had before '06 were pretty dismal, especially the 1st rounders (as the previous lists have shown). Our lone successful guy (DJ Williams) wasn't even the best player available at the time. I'd much rather have Steven Jackson or Vince Wilfork (damn that'd be nice!) over DJ. Nothing personal, but DJ still has failed to impress me. He's not an elite talent at LB. I know he's been moved around, but even playing his natural WLB position, he wasn't anything special. He's not lights out vs the run or the pass. He's decent at both.

The one thing I will say for Shanahan is that even with poor draft crops and mediocre FAs, he still kept us successful and "in the hunt". Even with some of Shanahan's blunders, he still never traded away next year's first rounder for a second round CB. He also never spent a 2nd rounder (acquired through more draft pick trades) on a blocking TE that really shows no sign of EVER starting.

Shanahan had some awful drafts and we really can't judge McDaniels on his drafts for another year or two (except for the Smith debacle). Frankly, I really liked this year's draft class and think the majority will be pretty successful.

Ravage!!!
09-07-2010, 04:50 PM
Yeah, 13-3 team the year before. They were horrible.

yes..they were. Did you not watch them play? I was at that first game, in St Louis that year...when Jake kept throwing INTs. He was just flat out BAD that season. But.. we've seen teams go from 13-3 to 8-8 before. Just as we have seen teams go from 2-14 to winning the Super Bowl.

Not quite sure what the 13-3 the season before has to do with Cutler coming into the last four games of the season because Jake was sucking eggs, though. :confused:

Jay wasn't put in because Jake was lighting it up. Everyone and their grandmother was calling for him to be benched the way he was playing.

Northman
09-07-2010, 04:50 PM
Not really. He has the opinion that he's simply not divulging everything to the public. He doesn't have to prove an opinion.

Its not even that. Players lie all the time to make themselves look better than they should. Jake never handled getting benched well and when he went to Tampa and was told that he would have to compete for a starting job he chose to retire instead. Actions to me speak louder than words and thats what i took from his actions. But i dont have to prove shit its not like anyone is a mind reader here. I simply formed my opinion based on what i read and saw.

Tned
09-07-2010, 04:51 PM
If you say so. :whoknows:

As the song goes, "You've got to know when to hold them, know when to fold
them." I believe Jake just knew it was time. If you don't have the desire, you
don't have the desire. When the fire has gone out, it's not going to heat up
anything. I believe that is where Jake finally found himself: a fire that long had
flickered, and now finally had died . . .

-----

Yep, and the darkness that followed his extinguished light enFolded his teammates in the dark embrace of a lost season.

GGMoogly
09-07-2010, 04:52 PM
I agree 100%. There is no doubt in my mind that he did just all of a sudden decide to quit after being traded to TB. It was clear the entire year before that he had all but quit already. He was going through the motions and drawing a paycheck, biding his time, knowing that his days as a starting QB were over.

Since I like Jake (not liked), it was hard for me to watch Jake fold like he three fingers on his hand that he wasn't using to flip off Broncos fans.

Are you saying he folded like a clean shirt in a Chinese laundry? :confused:

topscribe
09-07-2010, 04:53 PM
I agree 100%. There is no doubt in my mind that he did just all of a sudden decide to quit after being traded to TB. It was clear the entire year before that he had all but quit already. He was going through the motions and drawing a paycheck, biding his time, knowing that his days as a starting QB were over.

Since I like Jake (not liked), it was hard for me to watch Jake fold like he three fingers on his hand that he wasn't using to flip off Broncos fans.

Boy, you are on a roll with all the analogies today, aren't you? :lol:

-----

Dreadnought
09-07-2010, 04:58 PM
yes..they were. Did you not watch them play? I was at that first game, in St Louis that year...when Jake kept throwing INTs. He was just flat out BAD that season. But.. we've seen teams go from 13-3 to 8-8 before. Just as we have seen teams go from 2-14 to winning the Super Bowl.

Not quite sure what the 13-3 the season before has to do with Cutler coming into the last four games of the season because Jake was sucking eggs, though. :confused:

Jay wasn't put in because Jake was lighting it up. Everyone and their grandmother was calling for him to be benched the way he was playing.

Jake Plummer put up a QB rating almost ten points below Kordell Stewart's career average in 2006. That year was the worst Denver QB performance since Matt Robinson. Even if you don't like the QB rating formula (I kinda do) if your numbers are remotely in the same vicinity as Kordell Stewart's you officially suck at tackle football and should retire. The league had wised up to Jake Plummer's one trick that year.

jhildebrand
09-07-2010, 05:00 PM
Jake was done the moment teams made sure to leave a DE or LB home to stop the boot. That was it!

GGMoogly
09-07-2010, 05:01 PM
Jake Plummer put up a QB rating almost ten points below Kordell Stewart's career average in 2006. That year was the worst Denver QB performance since Matt Robinson. Even if you don't like the QB rating formula (I kinda do) if your numbers are remotely in the same vicinity as Kordell Stewart's you officially suck at tackle football and should retire. The league had wised up to Jake Plummer's one trick that year.

I guess he kinda folded like a cheap wallet in the back pocket of a fat man... :eek:

Northman
09-07-2010, 05:01 PM
Jake Plummer put up a QB rating almost ten points below Kordell Stewart's career average in 2006. That year was the worst Denver QB performance since Matt Robinson. Even if you don't like the QB rating formula (I kinda do) if your numbers are remotely in the same vicinity as Kordell Stewart's you officially suck at tackle football and should retire. The league had wised up to Jake Plummer's one trick that year.

Indeed. Thats like saying Lelie was a great receiver based off one year.

Lonestar
09-07-2010, 05:01 PM
Yep, he quit because he no longer was the starter and when he got traded to Tampa didnt want to compete for a starting job.

How does telling the team your retiring and then having the team trade your rights as to get out from under the contract come down to didn't want to compete for the job.



Talking about revision history.

It well documented that he told his closest friends on the team before that last game it was his last.

the to have mikey try to weazel out of the contract for a draft choice KNOWING he was retiring. that was even lo for mikey.

Tned
09-07-2010, 05:02 PM
Boy, you are on a roll with all the analogies today, aren't you? :lol:

-----

Yea, but the typos are killing me.

Jake folded like a Russian dancer in a cruise ship performance...

Northman
09-07-2010, 05:04 PM
I guess he kinda folded like a cheap wallet in the back pocket of a fat man... :eek:

Why you got to pick on Slim?

Northman
09-07-2010, 05:04 PM
Yea, but the typos are killing me.

Jake folded like a Russian dancer in a cruise ship performance...


:lol::lol::lol:

HORSEPOWER 56
09-07-2010, 05:05 PM
How does telling the team your retiring and then having the team trade your rights as to get out from under the contract come down to didn't want to compete for the job.



Talking about revision history.

It well documented that he told his closest friends on the team before that last game it was his last.

the to have mikey try to weazel out of the contract for a draft choice KNOWING he was retiring. that was even lo for mikey.

That was actually hella smart. What it did was prevent Jake from deciding to "un-retire" after his release and come back the very next season to play for a division rival (like the Raiders - not that it probably would've been terrible for us) or a conference rival. It forced his hand in that either he played for Tampa or nobody. I liked the move.

Northman
09-07-2010, 05:07 PM
How does telling the team your retiring and then having the team trade your rights as to get out from under the contract come down to didn't want to compete for the job.



Talking about revision history.

It well documented that he told his closest friends on the team before that last game it was his last.

the to have mikey try to weazel out of the contract for a draft choice KNOWING he was retiring. that was even lo for mikey.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jake_Plummer


Following the end of the regular season, Plummer was traded to the Tampa Bay Buccaneers (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tampa_Bay_Buccaneers) on March 3, 2007 for a 2008 conditional draft pick - however, a very short time later, rumors began to surface that Plummer was going to choose retirement over competition with Buccaneers quarterbacks Bruce Gradkowski (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bruce_Gradkowski), Tim Rattay (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tim_Rattay), Jeff Garcia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jeff_Garcia), and Luke McCown (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Luke_McCown).[4] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jake_Plummer#cite_note-3) On March 9, Plummer ended the speculation surrounding him by announcing his decision to retire at a live press conference. Plummer also confirmed his retirement through the Jake Plummer Foundation's website.[5] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jake_Plummer#cite_note-4)

Tned
09-07-2010, 05:07 PM
Jake Plummer put up a QB rating almost ten points below Kordell Stewart's career average in 2006. That year was the worst Denver QB performance since Matt Robinson. Even if you don't like the QB rating formula (I kinda do) if your numbers are remotely in the same vicinity as Kordell Stewart's you officially suck at tackle football and should retire. The league had wised up to Jake Plummer's one trick that year.

Ouch, seeing it in type really hurts. It was clear that after the AFCCG debacle, and then having his replacement picked in the top 12, while he was sulking in some mountain cabin, that once 2006 rolled around, Jake folded like Mike Shanahan's playbook, which got rid of the half of the playbook that Jake couldn't run.

topscribe
09-07-2010, 05:07 PM
Yea, but the typos are killing me.

Jake folded like a Russian dancer in a cruise ship performance...

Are we going to get into some "Yo mama's so fat . . . " lines here pretty soon?

You're threatening to throw this whole thread into the Black Hole, fella! :lol:

-----

GGMoogly
09-07-2010, 05:07 PM
Yea, but the typos are killing me.

Jake folded like a Russian dancer in a cruise ship performance...

...or like a paper napkin in a five-star restaurant! :beer:

topscribe
09-07-2010, 05:10 PM
...or like a paper napkin in a five-star restaurant! :beer:

Like a cheap folding chair at a Weight Watchers convention?

-----

Lonestar
09-07-2010, 05:11 PM
Why is that so hard to believe? That has happened to several pro athletes.

Jake was quoted several times over the years that he was surprised that PHX drafted him and that there was never any thought to playing in the NFL while he was in college.

He thought it was funny that teams wanted to pay him to play football.
He was a humble guy from what I've been told was there for any charity that needed help, never turned down giving auto graphs.

Told the NFL to stick in their ear over him wearing his Buddies number after he was killed.

He dressed in jeans and t shirt most of the time and drove honda BOX for car.

Seemed to have given a crap about earthly items.

While everyone else was was spending all of their money he was happy in a honda. When it was time to retire I suspect he had invest well and could afford to walk away on his own terms and not worry about it again.

Did mention a hottie wife.

slim
09-07-2010, 05:11 PM
I guess he kinda folded like a cheap wallet in the back pocket of a fat man... :eek:

And here come the fat jokes.

:weepsuncontrollably:

Tned
09-07-2010, 05:13 PM
...or like a paper napkin in a five-star restaurant! :beer:

Jake folded like a linen napkin at Wolfgang Pucks.

Northman
09-07-2010, 05:13 PM
Jake was quoted several times over the years that he was surprised that PHX drafted him and that there was never any thought to playing in the NFL while he was in college.

He thought it was funny that teams wanted to pay him to play football.
He was a humble guy from what I've been told was there for any charity that needed help, never turned down giving auto graphs.

Told the NFL to stick in their ear over him wearing his Buddies number after he was killed.

He dressed in jeans and t shirt most of the time and drove honda BOX for car.

Seemed to have given a crap about earthly items.

While everyone else was was spending all of their money he was happy in a honda. When it was time to retire I suspect he had invest well and could afford to walk away on his own terms and not worry about it again.

Did mention a hottie wife.

Oh yea, and this:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jake_Plummer


Following the end of the regular season, Plummer was traded to the Tampa Bay Buccaneers (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tampa_Bay_Buccaneers) on March 3, 2007 for a 2008 conditional draft pick - however, a very short time later, rumors began to surface that Plummer was going to choose retirement over competition with Buccaneers quarterbacks Bruce Gradkowski (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bruce_Gradkowski), Tim Rattay (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tim_Rattay), Jeff Garcia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jeff_Garcia), and Luke McCown (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Luke_McCown).[4] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jake_Plummer#cite_note-3) On March 9, Plummer ended the speculation surrounding him by announcing his decision to retire at a live press conference. Plummer also confirmed his retirement through the Jake Plummer Foundation's website.[5] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jake_Plummer#cite_note-4)

GGMoogly
09-07-2010, 05:13 PM
Like a cheap folding chair at a Weight Watchers convention?

-----

Like an omelet at a greasy spoon! ;)

Tned
09-07-2010, 05:16 PM
Like an omelet at a greasy spoon! ;)

Actually, if truth be known, what really happened in 2006 is that...

Jake folded like Jake in an AFC Championship Game... ;)

Tned
09-07-2010, 05:18 PM
Jake was quoted several times over the years that he was surprised that PHX drafted him and that there was never any thought to playing in the NFL while he was in college.

He thought it was funny that teams wanted to pay him to play football.
He was a humble guy from what I've been told was there for any charity that needed help, never turned down giving auto graphs.

Told the NFL to stick in their ear over him wearing his Buddies number after he was killed.

He dressed in jeans and t shirt most of the time and drove honda BOX for car.

Seemed to have given a crap about earthly items.

While everyone else was was spending all of their money he was happy in a honda. When it was time to retire I suspect he had invest well and could afford to walk away on his own terms and not worry about it again.

Did mention a hottie wife.

Those are all admirable qualities in a 'person', but as a football player, as a team mate, he should never have laid down and quit on his team. When his team needed him most, Jake shouldn't have folded like a sand castle at high tide.

topscribe
09-07-2010, 05:18 PM
Like an omelet at a greasy spoon! ;)

Like a $98 futon in Slim's family room . . .

----

slim
09-07-2010, 05:19 PM
Oh yea, and this:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jake_Plummer

In summary, we have concluded that Jake Plummer retired from the game of football.

Nice work, fellas.

GGMoogly
09-07-2010, 05:19 PM
Actually, if truth be known, what really happened in 2006 is that...

Jake folded like Jake in an AFC Championship Game... ;)

<sigh> :(

topscribe
09-07-2010, 05:19 PM
Actually, if truth be known, what really happened in 2006 is that...

Jake folded like Jake in an AFC Championship Game... ;)

Eeewwww . . . that was cold . . .

-----

Ravage!!!
09-07-2010, 05:20 PM
Are you saying he folded like a clean shirt in a Chinese laundry? :confused:

How did Joe Tribiani say it?? Something along the lines of "like an old man getting kicked in the gut"

Lonestar
09-07-2010, 05:21 PM
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jake_Plummer

Nice you believe everything about wik, did you just put it there before posting it.

He told his buddies on the team before the last game this was it he was going to retire, now if you want which is obvious that you do that he retired because he did not want to compete have a ball ..

revise history all you want.

topscribe
09-07-2010, 05:22 PM
How did Joe Tribiani say it?? Something along the lines of "like an old man getting kicked in the gut"

Let's stick to Slim and the fat jokes.

No need going after me . . . :eviltongue:

-----

Tned
09-07-2010, 05:30 PM
Nice you believe everything about wik, did you just put it there before posting it.

He told his buddies on the team before the last game this was it he was going to retire, now if you want which is obvious that you do that he retired because he did not want to compete have a ball ..

revise history all you want.

Why do you think Jake is off hiding in the mountains? He knows he quit on his team, that he folded like his Carhartt coat at the end of winter.

arapaho2
09-07-2010, 05:32 PM
How does telling the team your retiring and then having the team trade your rights as to get out from under the contract come down to didn't want to compete for the job.



Talking about revision history.

It well documented that he told his closest friends on the team before that last game it was his last.

the to have mikey try to weazel out of the contract for a draft choice KNOWING he was retiring. that was even lo for mikey.


i call bull!!!!

jake didnt say he was quitting...he said he played his last game as a bronco right after the last game of the season

he then publically asked for a trade to a team he could start on...he thought kubiak in houston would jump at the chance, he was wrong

he was then traded to a team he would have to compete for the starting job ...and got butt hurt and retired

http://www.denverpost.com/ci_5340491

In a turbulent turn of events, Jake Plummer has decided to retire rather than accept a trade from the Broncos to the Tampa Bay Buccaneers, a source close to the situation said today.
The primary reason Plummer has decided to retire after 10 NFL seasons is he didn't want to go to a team with where there would be another quarterback controversy. Plummer, 31, was demoted in Denver with five games remaining during the 2006 season and was replaced by rookie Jay Cutler.
Cutler said last week that he wouldn't be surprised if Plummer retired rather than go into a similar situation. Plummer said in late December he wanted to play only as a starter.
Tampa Bay coach Jon Gruden tried to talk Plummer into playing for the Buccaneers. After a long conversation with his agents this morning, Plummer decided to quit rather than go to Tampa Bay.

Lonestar
09-07-2010, 05:32 PM
well this thread is going no where. except to bait with one liners so have a ball folks.

adios

Ravage!!!
09-07-2010, 05:37 PM
How does telling the team your retiring and then having the team trade your rights as to get out from under the contract come down to didn't want to compete for the job.



Talking about revision history.

It well documented that he told his closest friends on the team before that last game it was his last.

the to have mikey try to weazel out of the contract for a draft choice KNOWING he was retiring. that was even lo for mikey.

Talk about revisionist memory. Is there a single thing in this post that is accurate anywhere outside your own made up imagination?

Arapaho covered.... but... wow

BroncoWave
09-07-2010, 05:38 PM
Are we going to get into some "Yo mama's so fat . . . " lines here pretty soon?

You're threatening to throw this whole thread into the Black Hole, fella! :lol:

-----

Did you REALLY think this thread had a future other than that? Tned might have well have thrown a match into a pool of gasoline by starting this thread! :lol:

Dzone
09-07-2010, 05:52 PM
ultimately trading the 14th pic in 2010 for a TE who was drafted 255th in 2009...so far thats been Mcds biggest draft blunder...This year Picking a guy in round 1 who had just had foot surgery. Im sorry, but that is looking mighty stupid about now.
Also:Ted Gregory
Willie Middlebrooks
Tommy Maddox

Dzone
09-07-2010, 05:56 PM
signing that KC cornerback who was a cokehead..what was that dudes name?

Just came to me...Dale Carter..what a loser...like maurice clarrett...and that running back with the 10 kids from 10 different women who ended up in prison for dealing coke..#20..Dang, I hate when my memory does that

TXBRONC
09-07-2010, 06:05 PM
Because i dont believe it, the timetable doesnt support anything else.

The timing was suspect at best. At the end of the '06 season he said wanted to be traded to a playoff caliber team and that was an assurance that he would be the starter. When he found out it was the Buccaneers and that he would be one of like 6 or 7 quarterbacks vying for the starter role then he decided his heart wasn't in it. Maybe that was authentic but imho it was strange.

Ravage!!!
09-07-2010, 06:07 PM
signing that KC cornerback who was a cokehead..what was that dudes name?

Just came to me...Dale Carter..what a loser...like maurice clarrett...and that running back with the 10 kids from 10 different women who ended up in prison for dealing coke..#20..Dang, I hate when my memory does that

Travis Henry

Tned
09-07-2010, 06:11 PM
I've got to say, posting using revisionist history is both fun and gives you a shit load of leeway in your posting. I was able to make pretty much any argument I wanted, but simply 'revising' history to match the point I wanted to make. How liberating!!

I guess I can see why revisionist history has become the post de jour lately. It's much easier to revise history to prove your point, then to do it the old fashion way, which is to have an open and honest debate.

Tned
09-07-2010, 06:12 PM
Did you REALLY think this thread had a future other than that? Tned might have well have thrown a match into a pool of gasoline by starting this thread! :lol:

Come on, the spark was already there, all I had to do was pour the gasoline to get the blaze burning a little hotter... ;)

Slick
09-07-2010, 06:16 PM
Demolishing Mile High Stadium.

Northman
09-07-2010, 06:17 PM
i call bull!!!!

jake didnt say he was quitting...he said he played his last game as a bronco right after the last game of the season

he then publically asked for a trade to a team he could start on...he thought kubiak in houston would jump at the chance, he was wrong

he was then traded to a team he would have to compete for the starting job ...and got butt hurt and retired

http://www.denverpost.com/ci_5340491

In a turbulent turn of events, Jake Plummer has decided to retire rather than accept a trade from the Broncos to the Tampa Bay Buccaneers, a source close to the situation said today.
The primary reason Plummer has decided to retire after 10 NFL seasons is he didn't want to go to a team with where there would be another quarterback controversy. Plummer, 31, was demoted in Denver with five games remaining during the 2006 season and was replaced by rookie Jay Cutler.
Cutler said last week that he wouldn't be surprised if Plummer retired rather than go into a similar situation. Plummer said in late December he wanted to play only as a starter.
Tampa Bay coach Jon Gruden tried to talk Plummer into playing for the Buccaneers. After a long conversation with his agents this morning, Plummer decided to quit rather than go to Tampa Bay.

Hey Araph, dont believe everything you read on the Denver Post. Did you just write that before posting in? :lol::lol::lol::lol::lol:

topscribe
09-07-2010, 06:52 PM
Come on, the spark was already there, all I had to do was pour the gasoline to get the blaze burning a little hotter... ;)

http://i258.photobucket.com/albums/hh256/AZDynamics/Goofies/LarrytheCableGuy.jpg

. . . "Some of us are full of it, and others are made of it."

-----

atwater27
09-07-2010, 06:55 PM
Worst decision Denver has ever made? Easy. Allowing McDaniels to blow up a perfectly good offense when he should have just fixed the defense. The difference between good leaders and bad leaders? Good leaders put to use what they have that works already and fix what is broken. McDaniels just blew it all up. This is a fact. As much as you try to spin it, you can't take away that fact.
So I guess the fault should go on Bowlen, really. He should have made it perfectly clear, a term of employment, that the offense should be left intact for at least a season.
In this scenario, Denver would have had a winning record and probably made the playoffs last season, McD would look like a studmuffin, we would all love him and be happy right now.

cuzz4169
09-07-2010, 07:14 PM
Dale carter
Daryl Gardener
Drafting Tommy Maddox
Marcus Nash
Maurice Clarett
George Foster
Willie Middlebrooks
Detron Smith Blocking fullback in the 3rd round?!
Dan Williams 11th overall pick!!??
Mike Croel 4th overall!!?? I wanna puke

Elevation inc
09-08-2010, 01:39 AM
i have thoroughly enjoyed the entire thread top to bottom....thanks TNED......lol

sneakers
09-08-2010, 02:28 AM
Letting go of Ron Dayne

spikerman
09-08-2010, 06:09 AM
And yet, at least through the end of last year and this year's preseason the defense still looks to have the same problems.

Dreadnought
09-08-2010, 08:34 AM
A Reminder - this thread is about past Broncos mistakes. It will not be allowed to turn into nothing but yet another tiresome compare and contrast thread between the '09 and '08 offenses. Want to discuss that? Fine. Start a seperate thread. Do not derail this one.

silkamilkamonico
09-08-2010, 11:31 AM
Worst decision ever was Bowlen not looking in a new coaching direction 2+ years ago. Really 4 or 5 years ago, IMO. The organization was stale and consistently average for far too long.

GEM
09-08-2010, 11:53 AM
I actually liked Gold but definitely in the minority here.

I loved his first stint in Denver. He had that "it" factor. Mean and didn't give a shit. Flipping off Quitterson. That pic of him standing over Gannon. He was one of my favorites. Then they shipped him off to Tampa and they destroyed him. He came back with no swagger and his speed was gone. Sucks.

OldschoolFreak
09-08-2010, 11:55 AM
I know some people have acquiring Jake as the worst decision but I'd actually go the opposite direction.

This team was that close in 06 and if instead of Cutler, we'd addressed the team's needs by adding a stud defender (Ngata?, DeMeco Ryans, a safety to replace Lynch?) we might have made it over the hump. The Cutler move killed team chemistry and effectively dismantled a 13-3 team that was on the brink of a Superbowl the year before.

Instead of staying the course and building on that core, we went in another direction. The subsequent shakeup of team chemistry by handing over the reigns to a mistake-prone shiny new toy led to a 9-7 season and the first of years of mediocrity.

Sheesh.

GEM
09-08-2010, 12:03 PM
The maddest ive ever been in my whole life were...

Losing to Jacksonville in the playoffs
Dante Hall
Quentin Griffin caughing it up on the one yard line for the goahead win...
Devin Hester's 2 returns for scores a couple years ago. How in the eff do you kick it to guys like that?

Saurbraun had too much confidence in his leg, IIRC he was told to kick it away and kicked it right to him. He lost his job that day.