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broncobryce
08-31-2010, 05:28 PM
http://www.nfl.com/kickoff/story/09000d5d81a1a299/article/broncos-rookie-tebow-faces-a-long-tough-road-to-success

# By Vic Carucci NFL.com
# Senior Columnist
# Published: Aug. 29, 2010 at 02:19 p.m

If the idea was to get a marketing magnet, the Denver Broncos' stunning defiance of conventional draft wisdom last April was a huge success.

Tim Tebow is the biggest thing to hit the Mile High City since John Elway. He makes fans scream. He makes them buy jerseys. He makes their necks stretch and turn just to get a glimpse of him.

"I haven't ever seen anything like this," Broncos linebacker Elvis Dumervil said. "He's kind of re-charged the community, and he's a great kid."

The football benefit of the Broncos' "crazy" investment of a first-round pick in Tebow isn't nearly as easy to assess. He seems to have so much developing to do -- even by rookie standards -- that several long-time NFL observers are unwilling to venture a guess as to if, let alone when, he'll be ready to start in the league.

Among the most prominent critics is former Broncos tight end Shannon Sharpe. As far as he is concerned, Tebow's marketing impact doesn't make up for his not being a starter this year -- and possibly next year -- and perhaps even in 2012.

"Maybe in college that works for you, but in the National Football League, you need guys that can play," said Sharpe, who works as a CBS analyst. "If you trade up in the draft to take a guy, you think this guy can play and can help you this year. You don't trade up to take a guy and say, 'Two years or three years down the road, he's going to be able to help us win ballgames.' You trade up to get a guy (in the first round), he's supposed to help you this year.

"Now he's sitting on the bench. How's he helping you win? How's he gotten better? A great smile, never been in trouble, reads the Bible -- that's all well and good, and I don't have a problem with any of that. But at the end of the day, you're in the winning business. And when he's not helping you win football games, that smile, that Bible, and the cuddly guy that you can bring home to your mom, it's not going to help then."

Pro Football Hall of Fame quarterback Dan Fouts called the left-handed Tebow "an interesting project." Translation: Don't hold your breath expecting him to be the dominant force in the NFL that he was at the University of Florida.

"I don't see him as a starter," Fouts said. "But I see him as guy that you can put in (in certain situations)."

That's consistent with the plan the Broncos presumably put in place on Aug. 19 when they signed Kyle Orton to a one-year, $9-million contract extension. The deal keeps Orton -- who clearly demonstrated this summer that he is the best quarterback the Broncos have -- in the fold through at least 2011, meaning he will start this year and probably next, while Tebow mostly watches and learns how to be an NFL passer.

If Tebow sees the field within the next two seasons, it will likely be in special situations and formations, such as the Wildcat, that take advantage of his exceptional running ability, extraordinary size (6-foot-3, 245 pounds) and strength for a quarterback.

But what happens if Orton struggles this year? What happens if the Broncos do the opposite of '09 and have a bad start and a great finish? For that matter, what happens if they collapse down the stretch again?

All of those people who have been treating Tebow like a rock star since his arrival in Denver are going to be calling for second-year coach Josh McDaniels, who is already feeling a great deal of heat for showing the door to quarterback Jay Cutler and wide receiver Brandon Marshall, to put their hero under center. Not simply in gimmick formations, but full-time.

They won't care about the work Tebow needs to continue to do on his throwing mechanics. They won't care about how much more he has to learn about the Broncos' offense and reading defenses and making proper adjustments.

They'll expect Tebow to perform the way he did in establishing himself as arguably the greatest player in college football history. They'll expect McDaniels to trust the rookie that he saw fit to choose much higher than most draft analysts believed he should be selected.
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"(Tebow's) got the No. 1 selling jersey in the league," former Pittsburgh Steelers coach and CBS studio analyst Bill Cowher said. "But if that No. 1 selling jersey isn't dressing on Sundays, (the questions McDaniels will hear are), 'Why not, Coach? How are we going to use him, Coach? How are we going to do this?'

"I think it's very important for Josh to make sure that he kind of suppresses maybe some of the expectation that people are having. (Tebow) was taken with the very high expectations as a No. 1. I don't know if he's ready to make that transition that the No. 1 pick, a lot of times, is expected to make. He's going to take some time to develop. It's going to take some time getting acclimated to the speed, not just the position and some of the mechanical changes he may be going through. I think, if Josh can suppress the expectation, then that's going to be a big part of how successful (Tebow) can become."

One school of thought among league observers is that Tebow's specialty role with the Broncos could end up being permanent. They cite the NFL's desire to expand the regular season from 16 to 18 games by 2012, and the likelihood that rosters also would be expanded to help accommodate the added physical toll on players.

"I'm not so sure that there wasn't a thought process put into the expanded roster," Cowher said. "And he could end up being one of those special quarterbacks (exclusively used) in a special package."

McDaniels' history of knowing how to bring out the best in quarterbacks is seen as a reason to believe the Broncos did the right thing by taking on the Tebow project. After all, during his time as an assistant with the New England Patriots, McDaniels had a hand in the molding of Tom Brady's brilliant career. He also did plenty to help Matt Cassel have remarkable success while replacing the injured Brady for virtually all of the 2008 season.

Tebow has demonstrated throughout the offseason and training camp that he has the smarts and the willingness to put in the considerable work necessary to elevate his game.

"I think they're going to continue to develop his footwork and his mechanics and decision-making, anticipation, getting the ball out, his understanding of the system, so that when they do put him out there, he'll be able to have some success," former NFL quarterback and CBS game analyst Rich Gannon said.

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Then there are those in league circles who don't see Tebow succeeding regardless of how much development he has.

"I just don't see it," Sharpe said. "From everything that I've read, (prognosticators) had the guy going possibly between (rounds) three and six. And you trade up to get this guy when you had Jay Cutler. So basically, you're saying Kyle Orton and Tim Tebow are better than Jay Cutler."

The rib injury that Tebow suffered while diving for a touchdown on the final play of his preseason debut against Cincinnati is widely viewed as a sign of just how far he needs to go to make it as a professional. As most quarterbacks find, running doesn't work nearly as well in the NFL as it did in college.

"You break ribs when you go head-first to try to get in the end zone," Fouts said. "Whether he can do the passing part of it is yet to be seen. It's a long process for everybody. It's the same process for (Sam) Bradford and for (Jimmy) Clausen and all these young guys that are coming out. The NFL is tough."

It could prove to be even tougher for Tebow, and the Broncos, if he's forced to play before he's ready -- or if, as some suspect, that time never comes.

broncobryce
08-31-2010, 05:29 PM
I can't believe Sharpe is hating on Tebow like this. His opinion I guess

arapaho2
08-31-2010, 05:51 PM
sharpe speaks his mind ...aint nothing wrong with that plus there is a lot of truth to his views...with a team so filled with weak spots you dont trade those crucial picks to get a 2-3 yr project in the first rnd

i think tebow is a better college player than v young was...but even young was viewed as a guy able to play and take a starting job as a rook...

im not condemming tebow either, but his views are rational

broncophan
08-31-2010, 05:56 PM
I just don't see it," Sharpe said. "From everything that I've read, (prognosticators) had the guy going possibly between (rounds) three and six. And you trade up to get this guy when you had Jay Cutler. So basically, you're saying Kyle Orton and Tim Tebow are better than Jay Cutler."

Shannon Sharpe......needs to get his facts straight......we did not have Cutler when we traded up.....to get Tebow.

and what has Cutler done for anyone to say that Cutler is better than Orton?

dogfish
08-31-2010, 06:22 PM
All of those people who have been treating Tebow like a rock star since his arrival in Denver are going to be calling for second-year coach Josh McDaniels, who is already feeling a great deal of heat for showing the door to quarterback Jay Cutler and wide receiver Brandon Marshall, to put their hero under center. Not simply in gimmick formations, but full-time.

They won't care about the work Tebow needs to continue to do on his throwing mechanics. They won't care about how much more he has to learn about the Broncos' offense and reading defenses and making proper adjustments.

what a bunch of shit. . . i truly don't understand why people have to create so much drama around tebow. . .

well, actually i do understand why somebody like carruci does-- he's a media hack, he has to have something to write about. . . but it's silly and overblown-- this whole idea that the media will somehow "pressure" mcdaniels to start tebow is laughable, and it keeps getting perpetuated. . . what are they going to do, storm dove valley if mcD doesn't play the kid?

sports media needs to stop taking itself so seriously, and just once and for all accept the fact that their opinions have virtually no relevance to the actual game. . . no respectable franchise lets public opinion sway their decisions. . . as i said in another thread, talking heads like jim rome and co. can bitch 'til their lips fall off, and it's not going to have one bit of impact on mcD's decision-- after trading cutler as soon as he got here, people need to understand that he's not concerned about his image or any crap like that. . .

what a joke. . . "oh noes, somebody like broken12 might start up a mean thread on the interwebs! guess we better put tebow in". . .

:rolleyes:

come on, man!

arapaho2
08-31-2010, 06:27 PM
I just don't see it," Sharpe said. "From everything that I've read, (prognosticators) had the guy going possibly between (rounds) three and six. And you trade up to get this guy when you had Jay Cutler. So basically, you're saying Kyle Orton and Tim Tebow are better than Jay Cutler."

Shannon Sharpe......needs to get his facts straight......we did not have Cutler when we traded up.....to get Tebow.

and what has Cutler done for anyone to say that Cutler is better than Orton?

he means we had cutler...traded him for picks and orton...then drafted a project to replace orton

as for cutler vrs orton....i am certain if you took all 32 teams and put them in situation where they had no qb...and the only choice was orton or cutler

90% pick cutler

broncophan
08-31-2010, 06:30 PM
he means we had cutler...traded him for picks and orton...then drafted a project to replace orton

as for cutler vrs orton....i am certain if you took all 32 teams and put them in situation where they had no qb...and the only choice was orton or cutler

90% pick cutler

oh......o.k....ty.....I misread that.

I agree....on the Cutler vs. Orton........but that still doesn't answer my question.......;)

I Eat Staples
08-31-2010, 06:31 PM
I just don't see it," Sharpe said. "From everything that I've read, (prognosticators) had the guy going possibly between (rounds) three and six. And you trade up to get this guy when you had Jay Cutler. So basically, you're saying Kyle Orton and Tim Tebow are better than Jay Cutler."

Shannon Sharpe......needs to get his facts straight......we did not have Cutler when we traded up.....to get Tebow.

and what has Cutler done for anyone to say that Cutler is better than Orton?

It's not just about last year. Anyone grading QBs would rank Cutler as the better prospect.

broncophan
08-31-2010, 06:33 PM
It's not just about last year. Anyone grading QBs would rank Cutler as the better prospect.

that is obvious......but....that still doesn't answer my question.

arapaho2
08-31-2010, 06:38 PM
oh......o.k....ty.....I misread that.

I agree....on the Cutler vs. Orton........but that still doesn't answer my question.......;)

about cutler??
lets put it like this..talent and potential

cutler has all the talent and ability to become one of the greats...not saying he will, but he has the potential

people harp on his ints need to remember

elway had 65 ints through the first 4 seasons
peyton manning had 81

cutler has 63....does that mean he's gonna be great...no
but his ints dont mean HE'S GONNA SUCK EITHER

I Eat Staples
08-31-2010, 06:48 PM
about cutler??
lets put it like this..talent and potential

cutler has all the talent and ability to become one of the greats...not saying he will, but he has the potential

people harp on his ints need to remember

elway had 65 ints through the first 4 seasons
peyton manning had 81

cutler has 63....does that mean he's gonna be great...no
but his ints dont mean HE'S GONNA SUCK EITHER

I didn't even know about those numbers. That is a good post. You can also bring up those QBs wins, because everyone wants to get on Cutler for not winning more despite a terrible defense.

Ravage!!!
08-31-2010, 07:14 PM
Peton had 100 INTs in his first 5 seasons. I guess Peyton couldn't read a defense either.


Nonetheless... Sharpe isn't saying anything new. He's questioning why a team that has SOOO many needs, used so many picks to move UP into the first round to take a guy that may not even be ready to start for 2 years. Thats not normally what you see a 1st round pick used for, and certainly not for a position that is considered the most important in sports. A 2 year 'project' isn't usually taken in the first round, especially after spending 4 picks to get him. A lot of players could have been taken with those picks.

Sharpe never says that Tebow won't become a starting caliber QB. He's just stating that in his opinion, THIS was not the team that has the luxury of spending picks for a project QB. Not when all you have is KO as your starter.

Jagsbch
08-31-2010, 08:58 PM
If Tebow sees the field within the next two seasons, it will likely be in special situations and formations, such as the Wildcat, that take advantage of his exceptional running ability, extraordinary size (6-foot-3, 245 pounds) and strength for a quarterback..

I think McDaniels is trying to get all the media he can lined up in a row to shoot them down as ducks when he reveals to the world that Tebow is his starter..:D:D

Lonestar
08-31-2010, 09:18 PM
Is everyone so sure that jay would have picked up the scheme any faster than Orton did. Or for that matter embraced being a very controled QB. Pesonally I do nothink he would hav been happy here. Espcially since he WAS not going to get a raise till Josh could see if he could become all that he could be.

Anyone know for sure that he would have been happy doing the spread O under Josh?
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broncobryce
08-31-2010, 09:48 PM
Is everyone so sure that jay would have picked up the scheme any faster than Orton did. Or for that matter embraced being a very controled QB. Pesonally I do nothink he would hav been happy here. Espcially since he WAS not going to get a raise till Josh could see if he could become all that he could be.

Anyone know for sure that he would have been happy doing the spread O under Josh?
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Well, Josh would hold him accountable for the picks and we all know Jay wouldn't like that. That's why they hired Martz

Medford Bronco
08-31-2010, 09:52 PM
I can't believe Sharpe is hating on Tebow like this. His opinion I guess

Isnt it way too early to say that someone cant be successul or will have a hard time when the season has not started yet :laugh:

The more people trash Tebow the more I hope he is great. Just to stick it to all the experts that think their crap dont stink

He is the opposite of most of todays athleletes.

He wants to work and learn. I wish all pro athlethes had his attitude.

He might not be a HOFer but he IMHO will be better in the NFL due to his will to win and ablity to learn.

Heck Josh helped Matt Cassel to be 11-5 in 08.

Come on, even most of us would think Tebow has more ablity than Matt Cassel right?

broncobryce
08-31-2010, 09:55 PM
The thing is, he actually looked good in preseason. Not spectacular, but go look at the other rookies. Only one who has looked better is Bradford, the number 1 pick.

HORSEPOWER 56
08-31-2010, 10:01 PM
Am I just an F'n retard or are we NOT the first team to ever draft a QB in the first round (late first round at that) and then NOT start him right away? Are we the first team to ever have a rookie with loads of potential sit behind a seasoned vet or something?

Come on, this is just getting ridiculous. Everyone seems to think that if Tebow doesn't start from day one, he was a bad pick and that he and Mcdaniels will never amount to anything. People actually get paid for this? Does anyone here actually think that Aaron Rodgers would be 1/2 the QB he is today had he been thrown into the fire from day 1? He'd probably be more like the guy drafted in front of him (Alex Smith) who's still trying to put it all together and be a productive starter 5 years later.

If I see just one more dipshit talking head (yeah, you heard me Shannon) say that Tebow was a worthless pick if he doesn't start this year, I think I might just completely lose what little faith i still have in sports journalism. :tsk:

GGMoogly
08-31-2010, 10:40 PM
Sorry, Vic - electronic fish wrap :fish:

Lonestar
08-31-2010, 10:45 PM
Am I just an F'n retard or are we NOT the first team to ever draft a QB in the first round (late first round at that) and then NOT start him right away? Are we the first team to ever have a rookie with loads of potential sit behind a seasoned vet or something?

Come on, this is just getting ridiculous. Everyone seems to think that if Tebow doesn't start from day one, he was a bad pick and that he and Mcdaniels will never amount to anything. People actually get paid for this? Does anyone here actually think that Aaron Rodgers would be 1/2 the QB he is today had he been thrown into the fire from day 1? He'd probably be more like the guy drafted in front of him (Alex Smith) who's still trying to put it all together and be a productive starter 5 years later.

If I see just one more dipshit talking head (yeah, you heard me Shannon) say that Tebow was a worthless pick if he doesn't start this year, I think I might just completely lose what little faith i still have in sports journalism. :tsk:



If he had been taken in the top five I'd be worried if he was not close to starting this year.

the day one picks as a general rule should be immediate starters or be ready to start should the the starter go down.

But where is it written that # 1 picks have to contribute day one in the NFL. other than by morons that think more of themselves than the FO does.

I can see why Josh limits access to the facility for these morons.

dogfish
08-31-2010, 11:07 PM
Am I just an F'n retard or are we NOT the first team to ever draft a QB in the first round (late first round at that) and then NOT start him right away? Are we the first team to ever have a rookie with loads of potential sit behind a seasoned vet or something?

Come on, this is just getting ridiculous. Everyone seems to think that if Tebow doesn't start from day one, he was a bad pick and that he and Mcdaniels will never amount to anything. People actually get paid for this?

preach, brotha. . . shit is sickening. . .

we all get it, he's not a polished passer or a conventional prospect. . . but the hyperbole really is beyond tiresome. . . a lot of people are acting like the guy has a ****ing prosthetic leg, not questions about his delivery. . .

:huh:

i really don't see where he's THAT much different from vince young as a prospect, aside from being able to maintain the appearance of literacy. . . although i do think tebow's maturity will accelerate his development some. . .

and i agree, it's ridiculous to make his time chart any different from any other rookie, especially at the quarterback position. . . some guys play right away, some don't-- simple freakin' concept, huh? VY, flacco and ryan played right away-- palmer, rivers and rodgers didn't. . . what's the big ****in' issue, exactly? aside from people who insist he has to be the savior immediately because "HE WAS A FIRST ROUND PICK!"

when all's said and done, and we go back and look at tim's career, how quickly he got on the field is NOT going to be high on my list of criteria for determining success. . . i'm going to look at how long he played here, how well the team did while he was starting (any super bowl wins? how many division titles? winning seasons?), and then how personally productive he was. . . not when he assumed the starting job. . .

Ravage!!!
08-31-2010, 11:08 PM
If he had been taken in the top five I'd be worried if he was not close to starting this year.

the day one picks as a general rule should be immediate starters or be ready to start should the the starter go down.

But where is it written that # 1 picks have to contribute day one in the NFL. other than by morons that think more of themselves than the FO does.

I can see why Josh limits access to the facility for these morons.

:lol: :lol: WOW... coming from you one can't help but just laugh at this.

It wasn't long ago that you were saying that 1st round picks should not only be starters, but should be pro-bowlers. Every WR drafted SHOULD be better than Rod Smith, since he went undrafted.... right?

Ravage!!!
08-31-2010, 11:11 PM
Not just a first round pick, though. A first round pick that we traded a 2nd, third and 4th round pick to move back into the 1st to get.. in one of the deepest drafts in the last decade, on a team that had a TON of holes to fill. A QB that, unlike Rivers, Rodgers, and Palmer... didn't grade out to be a top round QB because he would be such a project..... again.. unlike Rivers, Rodgers, and Palmer.

Big differences.

dogfish
09-01-2010, 12:00 AM
A QB that, unlike Rivers, Rodgers, and Palmer... didn't grade out to be a top round QB

http://img199.imageshack.us/img199/1405/orlytj.jpg (http://img199.imageshack.us/i/orlytj.jpg/)

mayock projected tebow as a first round pick. . .


Mike Mayock says Tebow a first-rounder, Clausen could fall

NFL Network draft expert Mike Mayock joined the show to preview's tonight's festivities.

-- Mayock thinks teams will try to trade up to the first round to draft Tim Tebow.

Dan asked if the Patriots are interested in Tebow. Mayock answered: "It's public fact that Bill Belichick has met with Tebow. He's had dinner with Tebow. He's friends with Urban [Meyer]. ... But he has a quarterback who's one of the best who's ever played, who's only 31 years old."

-- Mayock thinks the Rams will take Sam Bradford. "A franchise quarterback trumps all," Mayock said. "If you don't have one of those 8-10-12 guys, you're not winning the Super Bowl."

-- Mayock likes Jimmy Clausen, but he thinks his interview with Jon Gruden on ESPN may have hurt him. "I think he's a hard working guy who loves the game of football," Mayock said.

"But there are these nagging concerns about what kind of kid he is. He threw his wide receiver under his bus," Mayock said.


Read More: http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/danpatrick/blog/107861/index.html#ixzz0yFc370Mf

NFLDraftScout.com (http://www.cbssports.com/nfl/draft/prospectrankings/TSX/2010_QB) had him fitting into the end of the first or the beginning of the second. . .

whose rankings were you rollin' with, rav?

Lonestar
09-01-2010, 12:13 AM
preach, brotha. . . shit is sickening. . .

we all get it, he's not a polished passer or a conventional prospect. . . but the hyperbole really is beyond tiresome. . . a lot of people are acting like the guy has a ****ing prosthetic leg, not questions about his delivery. . .

:huh:

i really don't see where he's THAT much different from vince young as a prospect, aside from being able to maintain the appearance of literacy. . . although i do think tebow's maturity will accelerate his development some. . .

and i agree, it's ridiculous to make his time chart any different from any other rookie, especially at the quarterback position. . . some guys play right away, some don't-- simple freakin' concept, huh? VY, flacco and ryan played right away-- palmer, rivers and rodgers didn't. . . what's the big ****in' issue, exactly? aside from people who insist he has to be the savior immediately because "HE WAS A FIRST ROUND PICK!"

when all's said and done, and we go back and look at tim's career, how quickly he got on the field is NOT going to be high on my list of criteria for determining success. . . i'm going to look at how long he played here, how well the team did while he was starting (any super bowl wins? how many division titles? winning seasons?), and then how personally productive he was. . . not when he assumed the starting job. . .

IIRC John did not start till like the sixth game or maybe that was when he got benched. I was in LA at the time so missed a lot of news.

dogfish
09-01-2010, 12:14 AM
also, in regards to the "ton of holes" argument, haven't you been more than somewhat a proponent of the opinion that orton represents one of those holes? correct me if i'm wrong-- i'm not trying to put words in your mouth, but i'm pretty sure i've seen you post that opinion, no?

i don't see how you can have it both ways, really. . . if we had a hole at QB-- which i'm pretty sure you agree with me is THE most important position in the game-- then shouldn't that have been considered a priority in the draft? especially given the time typically associated with developing that position. . . does the guy have to take the exact prospect you want, in the exact spot, to meet with at least some approval? i mean, like or dislike the individual prospect, but you can't fairly say orton isn't the answer in one breath and then criticise JMFMCD for drafting a QB in the next. . .

the value of that particular position when you hit compells you to not let him sit on the board too long. . . people would NOT have been happier if he'd taken tebow at #12, i guarandamntee it! :laugh: the vultures traded down and then back up to get flacco IIRC-- and because he's played well enough for them to win, nobody says anything about it. . . OTOH, you have the example of the texans, who misjudged and traded back too far, and then made a panic move and overpaid to get back in for duane brown. . . IF tebow works out, the reward more than justifies the loss of an additional linebacker or defensive end. . . we'll see in a few years. . .

Lonestar
09-01-2010, 12:17 AM
:lol: :lol: WOW... coming from you one can't help but just laugh at this.

It wasn't long ago that you were saying that 1st round picks should not only be starters, but should be pro-bowlers. Every WR drafted SHOULD be better than Rod Smith, since he went undrafted.... right?

took a flyer to see what you were posting and low and behold more crap. normally do not read your posts.

IIRC this was about ashley

not to long ago ?


2002 - Denver Broncos
Rd Sel # Player Position School
1 19 Ashley Lelie WR Hawaii
2 51 Clinton Portis RB Miami (Fla.)
3 96 Dorsett Davis DT Mississippi State
4 131 Sam Brandon DB Nevada-Las Vegas
5 144 Herb Haygood WR Michigan State
6 191 Jeb Putzier TE Boise State
7 228 Chris Young DB Georgia Tech
7 231 Monsanto Pope DT Virginia

gee you have a better memory than my wife, about some obscure posts 7-8 years ago.

must not have much to worry about huh?

back on not reading for you.

Lonestar
09-01-2010, 12:23 AM
also, in regards to the "ton of holes" argument, haven't you been more than somewhat a proponent of the opinion that orton represents one of those holes? correct me if i'm wrong-- i'm not trying to put words in your mouth, but i'm pretty sure i've seen you post that opinion, no?

i don't see how you can have it both ways, really. . . if we had a hole at QB-- which i'm pretty sure you agree with me is THE most important position in the game-- then shouldn't that have been considered a priority in the draft? especially given the time typically associated with developing that position. . . does the guy have to take the exact prospect you want, in the exact spot, to meet with at least some approval? i mean, like or dislike the individual prospect, but you can't fairly say orton isn't the answer in one breath and then criticise JMFMCD for drafting a QB in the next. . .

the value of that particular position when you hit compells you to not let him sit on the board too long. . . people would NOT have been happier if he'd taken tebow at #12, i guarandamntee it! :laugh: the vultures traded down and then back up to get flacco IIRC-- and because he's played well enough for them to win, nobody says anything about it. . . OTOH, you have the example of the texans, who misjudged and traded back too far, and then made a panic move and overpaid to get back in for duane brown. . . IF tebow works out, the reward more than justifies the loss of an additional linebacker or defensive end. . . we'll see in a few years. . .

IIRC the falcons and crows had pretty good teams already when they drafted their FQB's unlike DEN who had not much but green kids and over the hill vets.

while they won in the first year after that well not as good the next year.IIRC

dogfish
09-01-2010, 12:33 AM
IIRC the falcons and crows had pretty good teams already when they drafted their FQB's unlike DEN who had not much but green kids and over the hill vets.

while they won in the first year after that well not as good the next year.IIRC

actually, that falcons team looked awful. . . but having those extra draft picks from the matt schaub trade along with their own natural high picks-- plus the acquisition of michael turner in FA-- allowed them to turn it around pretty quickly. . .

they also helped themselves out by taking some pretty polished players like ryan and curtis lofton. . . whether those guys have limited ceilings that will slow the falcons down at some point remains to be seen. . .

mcdaniels clearly isn't afraid to take a chance on high-upside guys who aren't projected as being as NFL-ready as some of their counterparts. . . obviously, his thinking is that players with a combination of raw talent and work ethic are solid risks. . . and he's clearly confident in his ability to coach 'em up. . . we should get an early indication of the results from ayers' progress this year, but it'll take a few seasons to really determine how well it worked-- unless ayers and D thomas are all-pros this year, of course. . .

Lonestar
09-01-2010, 12:51 AM
actually, that falcons team looked awful. . . but having those extra draft picks from the matt schaub trade along with their own natural high picks-- plus the acquisition of michael turner in FA-- allowed them to turn it around pretty quickly. . .

they also helped themselves out by taking some pretty polished players like ryan and curtis lofton. . . whether those guys have limited ceilings that will slow the falcons down at some point remains to be seen. . .

mcdaniels clearly isn't afraid to take a chance on high-upside guys who aren't projected as being as NFL-ready as some of their counterparts. . . obviously, his thinking is that players with a combination of raw talent and work ethic are solid risks. . . and he's clearly confident in his ability to coach 'em up. . . we should get an early indication of the results from ayers' progress this year, but it'll take a few seasons to really determine how well it worked-- unless ayers and D thomas are all-pros this year, of course. . .

I have been in the past a pretty firm believer that first round picks should be starters day one. But I can see that there are exceptions to that general rule of thumb CB, Qb and Probably NT/NT are rarely instant starters. I do believe that in our case CB would have to be pretty great to unseat Champ Etal.

As for DT and Ayers I think they may contribute this year. after Ayers figuring out what he was supposed to do after changing positions.

Rarely are QB thrust into starter unless the team sucked beyond belief and drafted top 10 or better.

I'm ok with Tebow setting as long as necessary to get up to speed with everything he needs to learn.

lgenf
09-01-2010, 09:16 AM
NFLDraftScout.com (http://img199.imageshack.us/i/orlytj.jpg/

mayock projected tebow as a first round pick. . .

[URL="http://www.cbssports.com/nfl/draft/prospectrankings/TSX/2010_QB") had him fitting into the end of the first or the beginning of the second. . .

whose rankings were you rollin' with, rav?

Thank you for trying to remind everyone why TT was traded up for.

It was well rumored on draft day that several teams were not only interested in TT but they were going to pick him in the first, but they were slightly lower in the draft round, that is why McD traded up to where he needed to be. If you really think TT was a waste of a first round pick then you haven't been watching the preseason games at all. TT has come into camp, worked harder then anyone, progressed further then any "expert" thought possible in such a short time, and has looked every bit worth the investment so far.

Bradford was the 1st overall pick and unless feeley got hurt was not going to start at least the first part of the year, and that was the very 1st pick.

Broncos have a good QB in Orton, why through TT to the wolves, just so all the "experts" can say I told you so.....

McD has a plan and is sticking with it.

Oh and as for all those holes that needed plugging - check your facts as to how many late draft pics work out for you, become something in the NFL or actually make the freakin team.

You don't get many chances to draft a Franchise QB and you don't pass on them when you can. Sure there are horror stories like Leaf and Russell, but TT did more in college then anyone previous and that my friends is worth the risk.

Hell the Broncos very 1st pick this year (yeah don't forget) the very first pick (Thomas) can't even get on the field.

TT will pay off in the future, could be the near future or longer, but he'll be worth it

I Eat Staples
09-01-2010, 09:29 AM
Come on, even most of us would think Tebow has more ablity than Matt Cassel right?

Unfortunately, no, and I consider Matt Cassel one of the worst starters in the NFL.


The thing is, he actually looked good in preseason. Not spectacular, but go look at the other rookies. Only one who has looked better is Bradford, the number 1 pick.

Those other rookies set the bar exceptionally low. Bradford was terrible in his first game, but has looked really good since.

T.K.O.
09-01-2010, 09:35 AM
the whole premise of the article is B.S.
tebow has already looked beetter than mccoy,clausen and bradford so how is it that he looks crappy even by rookie standards ?
what a crockpot full of squat !:D

arapaho2
09-01-2010, 10:10 AM
I didn't even know about those numbers. That is a good post. You can also bring up those QBs wins, because everyone wants to get on Cutler for not winning more despite a terrible defense.


for the record

orton was 0-7 last season when the defense allowed 25 or more points

cutlers bronco defense allowed a seasonal 28 points per games and nine games over 30 ppg

but see the reality of those stats dont enforce the vision that cutler just sucked and orton just wins

Lonestar
09-01-2010, 10:10 AM
The article is nothing but fodder for those that do not like the changes that Pat wa s forced to make.

He is as much as a FRANCHISE QB as jay WAS when he WAS drafted. A QB with potential. IIRC we also moved up to get him.

Time to move on.

Will he become that superstar that we have craved since John retired? Time tell.

Josh is doing the right thing bringing him along slowly just like half of the Franchise QB's have been in the past.
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arapaho2
09-01-2010, 11:07 AM
The article is nothing but fodder for those that do not like the changes that Pat wa s forced to make.

He is as much as a FRANCHISE QB as jay WAS when he WAS drafted. A QB with potential. IIRC we also moved up to get him.

Time to move on.

Will he become that superstar that we have craved since John retired? Time tell.

Josh is doing the right thing bringing him along slowly just like half of the Franchise QB's have been in the past.
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no he's not...cutler was seen as a guy who could imediatly come in and start...as a rookie he improved the offensive output over a plummer led offense

tebow is seen as a qb not ready for a starting job..and a 2-3 yr project...not a picture of franchise qb..yet

Mike
09-01-2010, 11:10 AM
"Maybe in college that works for you, but in the National Football League, you need guys that can play," said Sharpe, who works as a CBS analyst. "If you trade up in the draft to take a guy, you think this guy can play and can help you this year. You don't trade up to take a guy and say, 'Two years or three years down the road, he's going to be able to help us win ballgames.' You trade up to get a guy (in the first round), he's supposed to help you this year.

"Now he's sitting on the bench. How's he helping you win? How's he gotten better? A great smile, never been in trouble, reads the Bible -- that's all well and good, and I don't have a problem with any of that. But at the end of the day, you're in the winning business. And when he's not helping you win football games, that smile, that Bible, and the cuddly guy that you can bring home to your mom, it's not going to help then."

Certainly seems to be a problem for GB and SD. :coffee:

Lonestar
09-01-2010, 11:25 AM
Certainly seems to be a problem for GB and SD. :coffee:

Yep but then did they trade up to get them :laugh::laugh::laugh::laugh::laugh:


"If you trade up in the draft to take a guy, you think this guy can play and can help you this year. You don't trade up to take a guy and say, 'Two years or three years down the road, he's going to be able to help us win ballgames.' You trade up to get a guy (in the first round), he's supposed to help you this year.

not that it make a bit of difference IMHO.

IF you have a good to great QB in front of the rookie they set until they are needed. In this case you do what you have to do, to get the PLAYER you want.

rationalfan
09-01-2010, 11:50 AM
"If you trade up in the draft to take a guy, you think this guy can play and can help you this year. You don't trade up to take a guy and say, 'Two years or three years down the road, he's going to be able to help us win ballgames.' You trade up to get a guy (in the first round), he's supposed to help you this year."

this is the type of inflexible thinking that causes problems in all aspects of life, not just football.

Lonestar
09-01-2010, 11:54 AM
"If you trade up in the draft to take a guy, you think this guy can play and can help you this year. You don't trade up to take a guy and say, 'Two years or three years down the road, he's going to be able to help us win ballgames.' You trade up to get a guy (in the first round), he's supposed to help you this year."

this is the type of inflexible thinking that causes problems in all aspects of life, not just football.

oh so true but then most of those guys that are saying this tripe were all perfect day one also. RIGHT?

who is to say he will not help us this year with spot duty which I'm not all that surprised that Josh has kept under wraps in the preseason.

I'm thinking that Tebow, Larsen and White will be our goal line group.
with the D never knowing for sure whom to cover.

RyanC
09-01-2010, 12:00 PM
Did you guys catch John Lynch in the booth at the Steelers preseason game?

He said "This [Broncos] organization is one that, at least when I was here, had developed a culture of apathy" (paraphrased). Don't get me wrong, we all love Shanny for the golden years, but I think little by little over the years he started to see the players as livestock.

Did anyone here ever meet Cutler? Grade-A USDA stamped 100% to the core Douche-bag. Look at him on the sidelines, and look me in the face and tell me he cares.

If McD is trying to build a team that cares about the team, cares about the teams objectives, and wants to win as a team he's doing it exactly right IMO. Get guys with good attitudes, heart, and desire to play and to win and put the time and investment into coaching them. When they fight for a cause and feel that they stand for something they are much stronger then the sum of their skill sets.

I don't care if TT doesn't start for 2 years, what these guys fail to realize is that his positive attitude and extreme work ethic are making an impact on game day now.

Lonestar
09-01-2010, 12:11 PM
Did you guys catch John Lynch in the booth at the Steelers preseason game?

He said "This [Broncos] organization is one that, at least when I was here, had developed a culture of apathy" (paraphrased). Don't get me wrong, we all love Shanny for the golden years, but I think little by little over the years he started to see the players as livestock.

Did anyone here ever meet Cutler? Grade-A USDA stamped 100% to the core Douche-bag. Look at him on the sidelines, and look me in the face and tell me he cares.

If McD is trying to build a team that cares about the team, cares about the teams objectives, and wants to win as a team he's doing it exactly right IMO. Get guys with good attitudes, heart, and desire to play and to win and put the time and investment into coaching them. When they fight for a cause and feel that they stand for something they are much stronger then the sum of their skill sets.

I don't care if TT doesn't start for 2 years, what these guys fail to realize is that his positive attitude and extreme work ethic are making an impact on game day now.

I have heard from people that have met jay one on one and you hit the nail on the head as to their thoughts on him.

The TEAM has not been a team for along time. not sure about cattle aspect but we have been scrambling for players since we busted day one picks from 1999 through IMO 09 I know that many thought the 06 draft was great but you really have to look and see if those players are the shits that everyone thought they were now with different teams.

Are he worth the money that they have or will demand down the road.

Give me a bunch of over achievers any day over pricey head cases that have more skill. The mad hungry pack dogs will get you farther that ME players IMHO. the 77 team is a prime example no on was looking for individual honors but they got them all the same.

Looking forward to a lot of folks eating crow when it all starts to come together.

Sconnie Bronco
09-01-2010, 12:46 PM
Oh, finally someone like Peter King of Vic Carrucci has weighed in on Tebow. Now everyone can go about their day accordingly.

I Eat Staples
09-01-2010, 04:16 PM
Oh, finally someone like Peter King of Vic Carrucci has weighed in on Tebow. Now everyone can go about their day accordingly.

I'd much rather hear your opinion. :elefant:

broncobryce
09-01-2010, 05:29 PM
Unfortunately, no, and I consider Matt Cassel one of the worst starters in the NFL.



Those other rookies set the bar exceptionally low. Bradford was terrible in his first game, but has looked really good since.

If you think Cassel is a better prospect or has more skill than Tebow, that tells me all I need to know.

I Eat Staples
09-01-2010, 05:32 PM
If you think Cassel is a better prospect or has more skill than Tebow, that tells me all I need to know.

Cassel is a bad QB. Tebow could probably be an average FB.

broncobryce
09-01-2010, 05:38 PM
Cassel is a bad QB. Tebow could probably be an average FB.

Good thing he's a QB

I Eat Staples
09-01-2010, 05:54 PM
Good thing he's a QB

He's a FB that throws.

Day1BroncoFan
09-01-2010, 06:04 PM
Tebow might have a long, tough road but he has the power I tell ya. He can pull it off. Who gives a crap if he's a starter this year, next year or the year after?

If McD has a plan I am behind him, if it fails I'll be in line to kick him is the butt too.

How the hell do all these guys know if he can contribute as a starter or not. Why shouldn't we cultivate him as long as we have an opportunity to do it.

dogfish
09-01-2010, 06:10 PM
He's a FB that throws.

seriously, this again?

really?


:lol::lol::lol:

I Eat Staples
09-01-2010, 06:16 PM
seriously, this again?

really?


:lol::lol::lol:

Have you seen his arms? There's never been a QB with arms like that.

dogfish
09-01-2010, 06:41 PM
Have you seen his arms? There's never been a QB with arms like that.

you're right! i never noticed that. . .


now i understand why some people don't think tim can make it in the NFL. . . he's TOO STRONG!!


:rofl: :pound:

i take it you're afraid he's going to throw the ball over them mountains?

I Eat Staples
09-01-2010, 06:42 PM
you're right! i never noticed that. . .


now i understand why some people don't think tim can make it in the NFL. . . he's TOO STRONG!!


:rofl: :pound:

i take it you're afraid he's going to throw the ball over them mountains?

No, so far only JaMarcus has managed that. I'm just saying he could be a decent FB when everyone realizes he won't be a good NFL QB.

dogfish
09-01-2010, 06:45 PM
40mxiz-78f0

nevcraw
09-01-2010, 06:52 PM
He's a FB that throws.

No way dude - He's concrete cyanide..

BroncoWave
09-01-2010, 07:12 PM
Have you seen his arms? There's never been a QB with arms like that.

Now it's just obvious that you're a Chargers fan trolling. Glad I never took anything you've posted seriously.

I Eat Staples
09-01-2010, 07:22 PM
Now it's just obvious that you're a Chargers fan trolling. Glad I never took anything you've posted seriously.

I don't even know what to say to that. I guess you can't be a Broncos fan and think Tebow will fail. Who knew?

nevcraw
09-01-2010, 08:18 PM
I don't even know what to say to that. I guess you can't be a Broncos fan and think Tebow will fail. Who knew?

stay gold pony boy! Don't pay no mind to the socs they are harmless.

broncobryce
09-01-2010, 08:49 PM
I don't even know what to say to that. I guess you can't be a Broncos fan and think Tebow will fail. Who knew?

You can, but your hate is showing.
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I Eat Staples
09-01-2010, 08:51 PM
You can, but your hate is showing.
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Wrong. I like Tebow. I love my brother, but do I think he would be a good NFL QB? No. I can like someone and think that their skillset almost guarantees failure in a sport.

Medford Bronco
09-01-2010, 09:08 PM
http://img199.imageshack.us/img199/1405/orlytj.jpg (http://img199.imageshack.us/i/orlytj.jpg/)

mayock projected tebow as a first round pick. . .



NFLDraftScout.com (http://www.cbssports.com/nfl/draft/prospectrankings/TSX/2010_QB) had him fitting into the end of the first or the beginning of the second. . .

whose rankings were you rollin' with, rav?

lol dont let the facts get in the way of a good argument :lol::salute::lol: