PDA

View Full Version : Pleasant surprises and disappointments so far in the preseason



broncofaninfla
08-31-2010, 02:23 PM
Which player/players has been a pleasant surprise to you so far this preseason? Which player/players has a disappointment? Explain......

:beer:

Northman
08-31-2010, 02:33 PM
Which player/players has been a pleasant surprise to you so far this preseason? Which player/players has a disappointment? Explain......

:beer:

Surprises:

Robert Ayers- Really stepping it up with Doom being out which is what we needed.

Kyle Orton- Absolutely amazing how much better he is at least as far as his patience in the pocket and improved decision making.

Brandon Lloyd- At times has been hit or miss but for the most part he has really impressed me by catching the ball in traffic and trying to make plays.

Lance Ball- I just have a feeling that outside Moreno that Ball will be our #2 before the season is ended. I dont think White and Bucky will be able to stay healthy enough in the long run.

Perish Cox- Started out rough in the first preseason game but has really come on especially in the last one. The INT was outstanding.

Disappointments:

Alphonso Smith- Biggest disappointment. For a guy who can seem to get into position to make plays he cant even do the fundamentals of tackling to make those plays. This was a huge risk by McD and has blown up in his face.

Brady Quinn- I really thought this guy would step up to the plate. But no matter what string of defenders he faces he just isnt that good. At least he came cheap but obviously Tebow is already ready to surplant him at the #2 position.

broncophan
08-31-2010, 02:41 PM
Surprises:

Robert Ayers- Really stepping it up with Doom being out which is what we needed.

Kyle Orton- Absolutely amazing how much better he is at least as far as his patience in the pocket and improved decision making.

Brandon Lloyd- At times has been hit or miss but for the most part he has really impressed me by catching the ball in traffic and trying to make plays.

Lance Ball- I just have a feeling that outside Moreno that Ball will be our #2 before the season is ended. I dont think White and Bucky will be able to stay healthy enough in the long run.

Perish Cox- Started out rough in the first preseason game but has really come on especially in the last one. The INT was outstanding.

Disappointments:

Alphonso Smith- Biggest disappointment. For a guy who can seem to get into position to make plays he cant even do the fundamentals of tackling to make those plays. This was a huge risk by McD and has blown up in his face.

Brady Quinn- I really thought this guy would step up to the plate. But no matter what string of defenders he faces he just isnt that good. At least he came cheap but obviously Tebow is already ready to surplant him at the #2 position.

I agree........but I don't really think Quinn came cheaply......Hillis and a(low round) draft pick??......It would not bother me if it was JUST a (low round) draft pick.
But then again......Hillis wasn't going to play here anyhow I guess....

Northman
08-31-2010, 02:43 PM
I agree........but I don't really think Quinn came cheaply......Hillis and a(low round) draft pick??......It would not bother me if it was JUST a (low round) draft pick.
But then again......Hillis wasn't going to play here anyhow I guess....

Yea, i agree with you but considering that Hillis was going unused i look at it more as a wash with the edge going to Cleveland obviously.

Lonestar
08-31-2010, 02:44 PM
Surprises:

Robert Ayers- Really stepping it up with Doom being out which is what we needed.

Kyle Orton- Absolutely amazing how much better he is at least as far as his patience in the pocket and improved decision making.

Brandon Lloyd- At times has been hit or miss but for the most part he has really impressed me by catching the ball in traffic and trying to make plays.

Lance Ball- I just have a feeling that outside Moreno that Ball will be our #2 before the season is ended. I don't think White and Bucky will be able to stay healthy enough in the long run.

Perish Cox- Started out rough in the first preseason game but has really come on especially in the last one. The INT was outstanding.

Disappointments:

Alphonso Smith- Biggest disappointment. For a guy who can seem to get into position to make plays he cant even do the fundamentals of tackling to make those plays. This was a huge risk by McD and has blown up in his face.

Brady Quinn- I really thought this guy would step up to the plate. But no matter what string of defenders he faces he just isnt that good. At least he came cheap but obviously Tebow is already ready to surplant him at the #2 position.

overall I agree with you commentary let me add that having a years experience, good wheels has made Orton very mobile and that has surprised me about his pocket awareness.

Think we have a keeper here until at least tebwo is ready to play.

As for Quinn looks a lot like Orton did in those early PS games last year.

underrated29
08-31-2010, 02:44 PM
Surprises- jarvis moss, batiste, hunter, willis

Disappoint- quinn, jamal williams, seth olsen,

Lonestar
08-31-2010, 02:45 PM
Yea, i agree with you but considering that Hillis was going unused i look at it more as a wash with the edge going to Cleveland obviously.

If quinn can get his act together then he may just be a great backup down the line or better yet great trade bait.

Northman
08-31-2010, 02:46 PM
If quinn can get his act together then he may just be a great backup down the line or better yet great trade bait.

Maybe. But if he loses his position to Tebow his chances to prove anything will diminish a lot.

broncophan
08-31-2010, 02:46 PM
Yea, i agree with you but considering that Hillis was going unused i look at it more as a wash with the edge going to Cleveland obviously.

yea.....I know that has been discussed here alot.....but I think that trade is just going to look worse and worse....at least for the broncos , as the season goes....

broncophan
08-31-2010, 02:47 PM
If quinn can get his act together then he may just be a great backup down the line or better yet great trade bait.

I hope......

I Eat Staples
08-31-2010, 02:50 PM
The Good

Orton - Looks like he knows exactly what he is doing, and is starting to get better at actually doing it. Smart player, good leader. I feel he can win a superbowl with a good team around him.

Syd'Quan Thompson - He's not that fast, but he's elusive and looks good returning. I could see him developing into a nice #3 corner, #4 at worst, and a featured punt returner.

Perrish Cox - Hasn't gotten beat much, looks athletic, fast, smart, and has good coverage skills. Not sold on his return ability, but he could be our future #2 or even #1 corner.

Beadles and Walton - Looking good so far. I just hope they don't hit too big of a wall from being played so much already.

The Bad

Jamal Williams and Bannan - I was excited for them, but they haven't looked good. I'm hoping they're just holding back for preseason.

Brady Quinn - He sucks, has no clue what the hell he's doing out there.

Richard Quinn - I don't think he's even played.

The running game - We're missing out top 2 backs, but we haven't been able to run the ball at all.

broncophan
08-31-2010, 02:54 PM
Maybe. But if he loses his position to Tebow his chances to prove anything will diminish a lot.

well.....it sure looked like that is on its way to happening sooner than I thought it would.......if the game the other night was anyindication....Quinn was in for what???.......2 snaps??

TXBRONC
08-31-2010, 03:03 PM
Surprises:

Robert Ayers

Jarvis Moss

Perrish Cox

Syd'quan Thompson

Kyle Orton

Disappointments:

Alphonso Smith

Nate Jones

Brady Quinn

Richard Quinn

topscribe
08-31-2010, 03:21 PM
Studs

Kyle Orton - Actually no surprise to me. He's doing what I figured he would with healthy ankles and within a familiar system.
J.D. Walton and Zane Beadles - Makings of a delightfully NASTY O-line
Jabar Gaffney, Brandon Lloyd, and Eric Decker - Signs of filling the hole BMarsh left behind.
Perrish Cox - Champ's heir apparent?
Robert Ayers - Again, no special surprise. I was thrilled when they selected him, and I'm not sorry.
LenDale White - Forced his way onto this list when he moved a Steelers pile, of all things.

Duds

Alphonso Smith - Dang, I hate this. I really like the kid.
Nate Jones - Impressed early, seems to have gotten burned some lately.
Jarvis Moss - Went wild against Cincy's 2nd & 3rd stringers, seemed to disappear against the Steelers. Here's hoping he proves me wrong.
Jarvis Green - Haven't heard his name over three games now. He'll do until the next draft or crop of FAs, I guess.

On the Fence

Tim Tebow - Up & down, as to be expected for a rookie. He's not here because he's bad, only because we still have to see.
Brandon Stokley - Tough choice. Still can play, but there's so much good, new talent, and Stokes does not play STs. He won't be on the waiver wire come sunset.
Syd'Quan Thompson - Spectacular in what he does, namely as a returner. But the Broncos also have Cox and Royal. If Smith goes, he stays, and vice versa.
The entire O-line depth - Once they put in 2nd & 3rd stringers, the dam seems to break.
Worrell Wiliams - Has his brother's size and speed. Can he play like him?


FWIW :D


-----

Bosco
08-31-2010, 03:26 PM
Surprises:

Alphonso - I knew we would see improvement in him, but this kid has been rock solid all preseason. He went from the guy that teams actively targeted in 2009 to someone who teams have been avoiding thus far in 2010. His man coverage skills look as solid as they were at Wake Forest and his zone coverage ability has improved substantially.

Perrish Cox - I figured this guy would be a project player for several years while he worked as our return man. As it turns out, he could be getting substantial playing time as a rookie. So far he's exceeding my expectations.

Joe Mays - He looks like someone who could challenge for a starting spot in the future.

Disappointments:

Zane Beadles - He hasn't looked bad, but not as good as I expected either. Seth Olsen looks to be outplaying him right now, although I'm sure that will change once Beadles becomes more accustomed to this level of play.

BeefStew25
08-31-2010, 03:30 PM
If quinn can get his act together then he may just be a great backup down the line or better yet great trade bait.

Let's lets the coaches decide! LOL!

DenBronx
08-31-2010, 08:36 PM
Surprises:
Alphonso - I knew we would see improvement in him, but this kid has been rock solid all preseason. He went from the guy that teams actively targeted in 2009 to someone who teams have been avoiding thus far in 2010. His man coverage skills look as solid as they were at Wake Forest and his zone coverage ability has improved substantially.

Perrish Cox - I figured this guy would be a project player for several years while he worked as our return man. As it turns out, he could be getting substantial playing time as a rookie. So far he's exceeding my expectations.

Joe Mays - He looks like someone who could challenge for a starting spot in the future.

Disappointments:

Zane Beadles - He hasn't looked bad, but not as good as I expected either. Seth Olsen looks to be outplaying him right now, although I'm sure that will change once Beadles becomes more accustomed to this level of play.


:confused:

gobroncsnv
08-31-2010, 10:53 PM
LenDale White - Forced his way onto this list when he moved a Steelers pile, of all things.
-----

just couldn't think of a better way for you to put this... :cool:

broncofaninfla
09-01-2010, 09:32 AM
I pretty much agree with everybody and would add Mays and Hunter as pleasant surprises.

Disappointed in both Quinn’s. In fact I doubt Brady Quinn will be on the roster in 2011.

I Eat Staples
09-01-2010, 09:41 AM
I pretty much agree with everybody and would add Mays and Hunter as pleasant surprises.

Disappointed in both Quinn’s. In fact I doubt Brady Quinn will be on the roster in 2011.

I agree on Hunter. I really like him, I hope he gets some meaningful playing time this season.

Lonestar
09-01-2010, 09:50 AM
I pretty much agree with everybody and would add Mays and Hunter as pleasant surprises.

Disappointed in both Quinn’s. In fact I doubt Brady Quinn will be on the roster in 2011.

Quinn is acting like Orton did last preseason clueless.

Why is Tebow doing better? Because the scheme is very familar to him.
While everyone thought that quinn would have a leg up because he worked under mangini who also taught Josh the scheme everyone forgets that right after he left they went to urban meyers to get the finer points of the spread to add into maniginis scheme.

Look forward to him make some strides like Orton did this year he is to cheap to dump until his contract is due.
Mobile Post via Mobile.BroncosForums.com/forums

broncohead
09-01-2010, 09:58 AM
Cox and Thompson by far for late round rookies, Orton, Ayers. Not impressed with Moss but think he is servicable. Quinn needs to step it up big time

slim
09-01-2010, 10:06 AM
I have been pleasantly surprised by all of the rookies that are posting here.

I am disappointed in some of the vets...like clay, for example. I know it's early, but I think he has really taken a step back this year.

topscribe
09-01-2010, 10:21 AM
I have been pleasantly surprised by all of the rookies that are posting here.

I am disappointed in some of the vets...like clay, for example. I know it's early, but I think he has really taken a step back this year.

Yes, but you have picked up the slack with your farts.

It's always good to know there's somebody who can step right in . . .

-----

slim
09-01-2010, 10:22 AM
Yes, but you have picked up the slack with your farts.

It's always good to know there's somebody who can step right in . . .

-----

My farts smell like onions and ketchup!

Traveler
09-01-2010, 10:31 AM
Surprises

1. Perrish Cox- This kid will replace Champ when he moves to Safety or isn't re-signed.

2. Ryan McBean- Surprised only because he's kept Jarvis Green on the second team. Doesn't reflect well on Mr. Green.

3. J.D. Walton- Hasn't looked back since taking control of the C position in OTA's.

4. Robert Ayers- Seems to be upping his game with Dumervil out.

5. Tim Tebow- Still one of the few on the fence about selecting him. Having said that, from the short time I've seen him, he seems to have a better command of the offense than Brady Quinn.

6. Jason Hunter- Has flashed enough potential to push Jarvis Moss back to the second team IMO.

7. Joe Mays- Plays with the passion and the wreckless abandon I like to see in a LB.


Disappointments

1. Elvis Dumervil's Injury- Losing him for what might be the entire season really hurts the team. Especially the defense!

2. Jarvis Green- Getting paid too much money for a second stringer. Not better than advertised.

3. Nate Jones- Jack-of-all-trades, master of none. Pretty solid on ST though.

4. Brady Quinn- No explanation required.

5. Richard Quinn- Can't contribute from the training room. Makes his 2nd round selection the worst 2009 pick by McDaniels IMO.

6. Demaryius Thomas- Only listed here because I've not had a chance to see what he brings to the team. Could easily be atop the "Surprises" list if/when he gets healthy.

topscribe
09-01-2010, 10:35 AM
My farts smell like onions and ketchup!

Never could figure why you put that stuff on your pancakes . . .

-----

TXBRONC
09-01-2010, 10:40 AM
:confused:

Agreed I don't see a lot of improvement in Smith's play from last season to this one.

BroncoNut
09-01-2010, 11:36 AM
I'm gonna post before reading any of this to give my unbiased version. I am mostly pleasantly surprised. Orton is a surprise, the rookie db's are a surprise. I was disappointed in our run D at the beginning of last psg, but it seemed to come together towards the end. I am pleased with what i've seen in our FA pickups. Lendale White, not bad, certainly not disappointed. I like how Ayers has stepped up play. I am no disappointed in anything at this point. That could of course change.

weazel
09-01-2010, 12:01 PM
Surprises:

Alphonso - I knew we would see improvement in him, but this kid has been rock solid all preseason. He went from the guy that teams actively targeted in 2009 to someone who teams have been avoiding thus far in 2010. His man coverage skills look as solid as they were at Wake Forest and his zone coverage ability has improved substantially.

Perrish Cox - I figured this guy would be a project player for several years while he worked as our return man. As it turns out, he could be getting substantial playing time as a rookie. So far he's exceeding my expectations.

Joe Mays - He looks like someone who could challenge for a starting spot in the future.

Disappointments:

Zane Beadles - He hasn't looked bad, but not as good as I expected either. Seth Olsen looks to be outplaying him right now, although I'm sure that will change once Beadles becomes more accustomed to this level of play.

in what alternate universe have you been watching these games?

broncohead
09-01-2010, 12:21 PM
5. Richard Quinn- Can't contribute from the training room. Makes his 2nd round selection the worst 2009 pick by McDaniels IMO.


By far the biggest and forgot to mention. Don't think he has much of a future here in Denver

Lonestar
09-01-2010, 12:24 PM
By far the biggest and forgot to mention. Don't think he has much of a future here in Denver

I suspect you are wrong unless he is IRd he will be our future graham.

topscribe
09-01-2010, 01:21 PM
I suspect you are wrong unless he is IRd he will be our future graham.

I've heard that, while he has a long way to go as a receiver, he may be actually a
better blocker than Graham. That would be a pretty good blocker, wouldn't it?

-----

Bosco
09-01-2010, 02:48 PM
By far the biggest and forgot to mention. Don't think he has much of a future here in Denver

He's been injured.

broncohead
09-01-2010, 03:00 PM
He's been injured.

Guess I missed that part. Thought he was behind on the depth chart.

Bosco
09-01-2010, 03:10 PM
Guess I missed that part. Thought he was behind on the depth chart.

He's been out all preseason I think. Ankle injury IIRC.

missingnumber7
09-01-2010, 03:23 PM
Orton has supprised me in one big way, he actually moves now. I think he is the short term solution

Our entire front 7 has looked improved, and the young LB core looks good, and as always its nice to see Joe Mays running around hitting people for my favorite team again.

The only thing that has really disappointed me was Quinn, but that didn't supprise me. He seems alot like Simms last year. Came in thinking he was going to get to compete for the #1 spot, and blam they draft tebow and now hes got to compete just to be #2. And then orton steps it up. I think that if he pulls his head out of his arse we could have 3 decent qbs, but if not we will pray for a healthy Orton all year long(as I already am)

I Eat Staples
09-01-2010, 04:14 PM
I suspect you are wrong unless he is IRd he will be our future graham.

Graham can at least catch a pass when it's thrown at him.


He's been injured.

Yes, he's been suffering with a serious condition called he can't catch. It's plagued him since college.

Bosco
09-01-2010, 04:31 PM
Yes, he's been suffering with a serious condition called he can't catch. It's plagued him since college.

That would be false.


Hands: Quinn has large, soft hands and does a nice job of looking the ball in. His punch and hand placement are very effective when blocking, doing a nice job of locking on and steering his man wide from the play. The offensive system that UNC uses relegates the tight end to mostly dump-off and safety valve duties as a receiver. He has large mitts for hands, settles in the zone nicely, does a good job of selling his short-area routes and will secure the ball before turning upfield. He can easily catch the low ball and you will never see him fumble. He can extend for the ball well, but has not had a chance to show if he can catch with his back to the quarterback. GRADE: 6.4

http://www.cbssports.com/nfl/draft/players/historical/563214

I Eat Staples
09-01-2010, 05:03 PM
That would be false.



http://www.cbssports.com/nfl/draft/players/historical/563214

Richard Quinn and his 12 career college catches thank you for that.

Bosco
09-01-2010, 05:07 PM
Richard Quinn and his 12 career college catches thank you for that.

Guess you missed this part.


The offensive system that UNC uses relegates the tight end to mostly dump-off and safety valve duties as a receiver. He has large mitts for hands

Once again, you try to equate usage with ability.

I Eat Staples
09-01-2010, 05:21 PM
Guess you missed this part.



Once again, you try to equate usage with ability.

Just because he has large hands doesn't mean he can catch well.

Lonestar
09-01-2010, 05:27 PM
BOy I'm sure glad we have Xman, the scouting department as well as position coaches to help make these decisions.

Not sure what our squad would look like if Y'all were in charge..

I'm sure I have even seen someone talking about getting rid of Champ. because he has lost a step from his 4.2 speed. :laugh::laugh::laugh::laugh::laugh: :laugh::laugh::laugh::laugh:

Bosco
09-01-2010, 05:41 PM
Just because he has large hands doesn't mean he can catch well.


Hands: Quinn has large, soft hands and does a nice job of looking the ball in. His punch and hand placement are very effective when blocking, doing a nice job of locking on and steering his man wide from the play. The offensive system that UNC uses relegates the tight end to mostly dump-off and safety valve duties as a receiver. He has large mitts for hands, settles in the zone nicely, does a good job of selling his short-area routes and will secure the ball before turning upfield. He can easily catch the low ball and you will never see him fumble. He can extend for the ball well, but has not had a chance to show if he can catch with his back to the quarterback. GRADE: 6.4

Facepalm.

I Eat Staples
09-01-2010, 05:53 PM
Facepalm.

Whoever wrote that was clearly impressed by all of his 12 catches.

Dean
09-01-2010, 10:41 PM
I've heard that, while he has a long way to go as a receiver, he may be actually a
better blocker than Graham. That would be a pretty good blocker, wouldn't it?

-----

I'm curious as to what you see that leads you to that conclusion. Graham is one if not the best blocking TE in the NFL right now. R. Quinn is a better blocker? How so?

broncofaninfla
09-02-2010, 08:06 AM
Whoever wrote that was clearly impressed by all of his 12 catches.

and that super impressive rookie season. Did he even have a catch last season? I remember one blocked punt from him, that's it.

Unfortunatly there are some with blind love for "all things Mcd". I on the other hand, hope he turns out to be a good coach and his players turn out to be stars but until that happens, "all things Mcd" have to prove things to me.

topscribe
09-02-2010, 08:19 AM
I'm curious as to what you see that leads you to that conclusion. Graham is one if not the best blocking TE in the NFL right now. R. Quinn is a better blocker? How so?

Read my comment again. Did I come to a conclusion? I said that I heard that
he may be even better. A couple comments out of camp along the way . . .

-----

BroncoNut
09-02-2010, 08:20 AM
Read my comment again. Did I come to a conclusion? I said that I heard that
he may be even better. A couple comments out of camp along the way . . .

-----

pwned

slim
09-02-2010, 08:49 AM
Read my comment again. Did I come to a conclusion? I said that I heard that
he may be even better. A couple comments out of camp along the way . . .

-----
Cockblocker!

BroncoNut
09-02-2010, 09:03 AM
Cockblocker!
Top is bringing it today. He's a brahma bull

Grover
09-02-2010, 09:20 AM
Quinn has been injured and hasn't played much so far this year. Didn't do much last year when he did play, outside of that one blocked punt. Anyone who says he's a good blocker, or has overheard a rumor that he's a good blocker, must be referring to his body of work in college, because he's only taken baby steps so far in the NFL.

topscribe
09-02-2010, 09:21 AM
Cockblocker!

:confused:



Top is bringing it today. He's a brahma bull

Nah, just a big teddy bear. :D

Besides, I wouldn't get too hard on Dean . . . he's my bud. http://i258.photobucket.com/albums/hh256/AZDynamics/Smilies/thdrink.gif



Quinn has been injured and hasn't played much so far this year. Didn't do much last year when he did play, outside of that one blocked punt. Anyone who says he's a good blocker, or has overheard a rumor that he's a good blocker, must be referring to his body of work in college, because he's only taken baby steps so far in the NFL.

May be true. Just going by a couple comments out of camp that I read . . . :whoknows:

-----

Northman
09-02-2010, 09:29 AM
Whoever wrote that was clearly impressed by all of his 12 catches.

Come on now, its just a sports writer. They wouldnt know anything about players. :laugh:

LTC Pain
09-02-2010, 10:01 AM
Surprises (Positives)
- Orton's leadership and effectiveness
- Cox and Thompson on kick returns
- The play of Ayers and Moss at OLB
- Champ looked dominant against the Bengals
- Pass protection
- Prater and Colquitt
-First team offense looks good.
Disappointments (Negatives)
- Running game - think this is a combo of poor run blocking and injuries to RBs (new scheme?)
- Run defense isn't shutting down anything yet.
- B Quinn - Does he need more time to learn the system? #15 seems to be picking it up okay.
- Injuries to key players.
- Special teams hot and cold.
- Not impressed with the front three on defense.

LRtagger
09-02-2010, 04:02 PM
Whoever wrote that was clearly impressed by all of his 12 catches.

12 catches, but I would imagine DROPS would be indicative of whether he has good hands or not.

How many DROPS did he have as opposed to catches?

Bosco
09-02-2010, 04:09 PM
12 catches, but I would imagine DROPS would be indicative of whether he has good hands or not.

How many DROPS did he have as opposed to catches?

Not to mention those are scouting reports that take into consideration the combine, pro-days and the like.

I Eat Staples
09-02-2010, 04:21 PM
There's been reports from camp of Richard Quinn dropping passes. If he was a good receiver, he would have been targeted more in college and played more in the NFL.

There's a reason he was used almost exclusively on special teams last year.

Ravage!!!
09-02-2010, 04:44 PM
ahhh.. if we could all just be brilliantly knowledgeable.

But then, everyone on the board would be looked upon as pompous know-it-alls that believe they know more than anyone else.

arapaho2
09-02-2010, 04:48 PM
Which player/players has been a pleasant surprise to you so far this preseason? Which player/players has a disappointment? Explain......

:beer:



i am pleased with ortons play...not the best ever but he should do
well

i like what i see from ayers alot

smith, branson and both quinns are disapointment

LRtagger
09-02-2010, 08:57 PM
There's been reports from camp of Richard Quinn dropping passes. If he was a good receiver, he would have been targeted more in college and played more in the NFL.

There's a reason he was used almost exclusively on special teams last year.

Lots of receivers don't adjust quickly to the NFL game....much less a blocking TE. It doesn't necessarily mean he has bad hands. Good WR drop passes, too.

I'm not saying you are wrong, but you are basing your judgement on college stats you looked up and what you have heard from random camp reports. Meanwhile you discount legitimate scouting reports from guys who have seen him participate in pass catching drills for NFL scouts.

UNC doesn't utilize pass-catching TEs. For all you know he was targetted 13 times and had 12 catches. The guy was in a run-first college offense that didnt use TEs as receivers...obviously he is going to have a hard time transitioning to being a pass-catching threat in the NFL.

I wouldn't be so quick to say he has bad hands is all. If he develops into another Dan Graham I'll be happy.

Ravage!!!
09-02-2010, 09:18 PM
He's not a pass catching TE. Never was, never will be. He was drafted to be a blocking TE, as the system doesn't even use TEs much anyway (as pass catchers). Ask Graham and any other TE that had been in the system in NE.

So it comes down to whether or not a blocking TE was worth moving up to get. Is a Graham worth a top 2nd round pick? :whoknows: Not sure.

But lets not try to suggest the only reason he caught twelve passes is because he was thrown 13 or whatevers. If he was good in that skillset, he would have shined as that kind of player. He is what he is..... a Tackle that plays on the end of the line.

LRtagger
09-02-2010, 09:22 PM
I agree...McD does not utilize the pass catching TE much, so it's a wash...assuming he becomes the next Dan Graham.

Either way, I was just debating the bad hands vs good hands comments.

He caught a lot of passes in HS FWIW. :D

Anyways, I would say for a TE who caught only 8 passes as a senior, but still was an All-American honorable mention says he did something well...my guess is block.

Ravage!!!
09-02-2010, 10:01 PM
I'm not saying he's a bad blocker. I'm guessing he's good at it. But he BETTER be considering where we took him and used draft picks to move UP to get him. I personally think it was too much and too high for a TE that won't be involved in the passing game, but.... :whoknows: Oh well.

There will be some here that try to make it sound like it was a great pick by pointing out every time the guy does his job, and makes a block.

Bosco
09-03-2010, 12:32 AM
He's not a pass catching TE. Never was, never will be. He was drafted to be a blocking TE He'll never be a field stretching tight end like Gates, Scheffler, Watson...etc, but I wouldn't go as far as to say he'll never be a receiving threat. In a best case scenario he'll provide a reliable target in the short passing game much like Graham is today. That would be a very welcome addition.


as the system doesn't even use TEs much anyway (as pass catchers). Ask Graham and any other TE that had been in the system in NE. That's fairly incorrect as well. In New England, Graham was utilized much the same way he was here in two years under Shanahan while Watson was a fairly big cog in their passing game. In fact there was a discussion here recently about how often different teams targeted their tight ends. One site showed that in 2006 Ben Watson was targeted more than than any TE in the NFL save for a couple (Gates and Gonzalez IIRC).

In short, Josh will use them if he has them, however I doubt you'll see him use a premium pick on one until Graham has retired or moved on as a free agent.


So it comes down to whether or not a blocking TE was worth moving up to get. Is a Graham worth a top 2nd round pick? :whoknows: Not sure. Daniel Graham for a 2nd round pick? I'd make that trade any day.

Dean
09-03-2010, 06:02 AM
Read my comment again. Did I come to a conclusion? I said that I heard that
he may be even better. A couple comments out of camp along the way . . .

-----

I'm still curious. Do you remember where you heard that? :confused:

topscribe
09-03-2010, 09:24 AM
I'm still curious. Do you remember where you heard that? :confused:

Sorry, Dean, no I don't. I read reports off four different boards and all the media
I could find over the duration of camp. I remember hearing or reading a lot of
things, but I won't often remember specifically when or where. I'm not attesting
to their accuracy (or even that of my recollection of it now, to be honest). I
just mentioned I heard (or read) something about it, is all . . .

-----

Dean
09-03-2010, 01:02 PM
Sorry, Dean, no I don't. I read reports off four different boards and all the media
I could find over the duration of camp. I remember hearing or reading a lot of
things, but I won't often remember specifically when or where. I'm not attesting
to their accuracy (or even that of my recollection of it now, to be honest). I
just mentioned I heard (or read) something about it, is all . . .

-----

Okay, I wasn't trying to call you out. It just seemed to to be a very unusual statement.