Alphonso Smith could be one and done in Denver

[turftoad]

Alphonso Smith could be one and done in Denver
Posted by Gregg Rosenthal on August 31, 2010 12:31 PM ET
Josh McDaniels made a few questionable decisions during his desultory first draft as Broncos head coach, but none looks worse than the decision to trade a first-round pick for cornerback Alphonso Smith.

The draft class has time to turn it around, but Smith may not. One year later, Dave Krieger of the Denver Post writes that Smith may not even make the team.

At this point, Smith appears to be battling rookie seventh-round pick Syd'Quan Thompson for the ninth and possibly final defensive back roster spot. Thompson is coming off a preseason performance that showed more promise than anything Smith has done as a pro.

Look, we understand bad picks happen. But McDaniels traded a 2010 first-round pick to Seattle to take Smith No. 37 overall. (The traded pick turned into the No. 14 selection; Seattle took Earl Thomas.) If you are going to gamble that big on an undersized cornerback, you better be right.

Smith's possible release points out just how hard it is to judge college talent. The Broncos took cornerbacks Perrish Cox and Thompson in the fifth and seventh-round respectively in 2010. They both look like long-term keepers.

Smith, essentially taken with a first-round pick, may be one and done.

[underrated29]

speculation. He is not one and done. I guarantee he makes the team.

[rcsodak]

I expect an injury to occur......IR
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[turftoad]

speculation. He is not one and done. I guarantee he makes the team.

How many CB's do you think the Broncs keep?

[topscribe]

Unfortunately, that looks like the situation, Turf. I was not happy with the
selection back then, and, if anything, I have soured even more on it. Just think
what the Broncos could have done this year with three first-rounders . . .

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[TXBRONC]

speculation. He is not one and done. I guarantee he makes the team.

I agree and I don't think Turf would disagree that's it's speculative. However, I don't think it would be shocking if Smith was sent packing. Imho Cox and Thompson have done more to make a case for them to make the team than Smith has.

[Sconnie Bronco]

Whatever. I just dont want him to make the team at the expense of someone more deserving.

Thompson should be a lock though. He's an awesome returner.

[underrated29]

How many CB's do you think the Broncs keep?

champ,goody,cox,alphonzo,nate,syd......dawk,hill,b ruton,mcbath


last year we kept, champ,goody,alhphonzo,tylaw,carter.......dawk,hill ,bruton,mcbath, barrett


so this year since carter and barret is gone, we keep 6cb and 4dbs instead of 5 dbs and 5 s.

Remember Nate jones can play S in a pinch and is also a ST guy like barrett was.

[TXBRONC]

Whatever. I just dont want him to make the team at the expense of someone more deserving.

Thompson should be a lock though. He's an awesome returner.

Or Cox for that matter.

[red98]

speculation. He is not one and done. I guarantee he makes the team.

Too bad. I hope he doesn't make the team as he's shown squat to date.

I'd rather McD and company admit their rookie mistake now, get Smith off the payroll and move on.

I don't see Smith helping us win and would rather see the spot occupied by someone who can.

[Sconnie Bronco]

Or Cox for that matter.

I agree but the article said it was between Thompson and Smith. Sorry, but thats a no-brainer.

Thompson is absolutely electric on punts. Im very excited about Thompson and would be furious if they cut him and keep Smith.

I think Josh would acquit himself better if he keeps a 7th rounder who is better and admit he made a mistake by cutting Smith...if it comes down to that. If they keep Smith, he will be compounding his original mistake with another one and will be criticized for both. I say this assuming Thompson will be good on returns. Ive never been more impressed with anyone we've had returning other than maybe Gordon. I feel that way about Cox too. Not even Hixon was this impressive and he went on to do good things with the Giants.

[topscribe]

Too bad. I hope he doesn't make the team as he's shown squat to date.

I'd rather McD and company admit their rookie mistake now, get Smith off the payroll and move on.

I don't see Smith helping us win and would rather see the spot occupied by someone who can.

I feel for the Phonz. I really do. I wanted to be wrong about him in the worst
way. But, alas, it appears at this point you may be right . . .

-----

[turftoad]

I agree and I don't think Turf would disagree that's it's speculative. However, I don't think it would be shocking if Smith was sent packing. Imho Cox and Thompson have done more to make a case for them make the team than Smith has.

This is true.

[Ravage!!!]

I don't see Smith willing to "fake" and injury and go on IR when he can be cut and try to earn a spot on another team. Would be the dumbest thing for him to do.

I don't see the sense in keeping him at his point. No matter what, the chances of him every justifying using that first round pick on him, at this point, is pretty damned hard to do. For him, it would be better to move on where he is looked upon by fans as a signed FA instead of a busted 1st round pick. Lot less pressure.

As for the coaching staff here... would be better to cut him loose now. I don't think they will ever be able to 'defend' teh pick any more, and it may be better just to move on and forward and accept the big mistake.

[Dreadnought]

As for the coaching staff here... would be better to cut him loose now. I don't think they will ever be able to 'defend' teh pick any more, and it may be better just to move on and forward and accept the big mistake.

I agree. They might even earn some respect for in essence admitting that this guy is a stiff and being done with it. If they cling to him at the expense of a more valuable and deserving player it will only look self serving and defensive at this point

[claymore]

Smith has character. Thats what we payed for guys.

[underrated29]

let me say first, that I am not a smith lover and could care less if we keep him or dont.....



But imo it would be monumentally stupid to cut him loose now. Just think about it. We often times see teams go 4-5 wide. And we will see it a lot. As more and more teams are going pass heavy.



So we have champ, goody, nate, cox---do you really want syd to be the 5th guy out there. Or what if someone goes down, do you really want syd to be who we are going to rely on??



Answer this honestly as if you were a coach. I know I sure as hell wouldnt. What has syd done at CB, not on KR, but at CB? Yes he had the pick 6. On a gift that the qb threw right to him all alone. It was a nice play and I do not want to discount it....But has anyone actually ever looked at his coverage plays, vs alphonso smiths?

THe last two games I have watched the fonz only on D. I am not all that impressed, but he is quick and he has for the most part blanketed his wr. Have you noticed why the qb was not ever throwing at smith. Because he had his guy locked up. I have yet to re watch syd, but I do not think we can accurately judge his coverage ability by 1 game against backups.


I am just trying to be open minded about this. But to me nothing warrants keeping syd over phonz in the CB dept. Just his ST play. Which does warrant it. But we also have royla, willis, cox who can do it too. So with all that said, I still think syd makes the squad, but I also think that phonz makes it too and is listed higher on the depth chart. I mean wouldnt it make sense, if you were a coach?

[claymore]

McDaniels would look like to much of a moron if he dumped Smith and he became good. We grumble with smith on the team, but would raise hell if he was cut and became a starter elsewhere.

[BigDaddyBronco]

They will not activate more than 4 CB's a game, so if you want Smith as injury protection or keep him around to see if he will develop, fine. Syd'Quan would provide both KR depth and CB depth, he is more versatile.

[I Eat Staples]

Well McDaniels didn't know how to draft back then and he still doesn't, so no surprise. But Smith should make the team.

At least give him one more year. Why the hell do we want Nate Jones? No upside.

[BigDaddyBronco]

Well McDaniels didn't know how to draft back then and he still doesn't, so no surprise. But Smith should make the team.

At least give him one more year. Why the hell do we want Nate Jones? No upside.

Because he can play safety, CB, and plays special teams well. Phonso sucks at ST and hasn't shown much at CB.

[claymore]

Wasnt Smith taken to return kicks as well????

[I Eat Staples]

Because he can play safety, CB, and plays special teams well. Phonso sucks at ST and hasn't shown much at CB.

He can play them, just not well.


Wasnt Smith taken to return kicks as well????

Yes, and he sucks at that too.

[TXBRONC]

Wasnt Smith taken to return kicks as well????

Yes.

[claymore]

He can play them, just not well.



Yes, and he sucks at that too.

Hahaha LOL. :laugh:

[turftoad]

Just think of what we could have had with the 14th overall this year.

Josh was like a kid in a candy store last year during the draft. Oh, how is Richard Quinn doing also?

[Lonestar]

Unfortunately, that looks like the situation, Turf. I was not happy with the
selection back then, and, if anything, I have soured even more on it. Just think
what the Broncos could have done this year with three first-rounders . . .

-----

hell the way Josh was slinging trades around might have been 4 first rounders:laugh::laugh::laugh::laugh:

[TXBRONC]

Just think of what we could have had with the 14th overall this year.

Josh was like a kid in a candy store last year during the draft. Oh, how is Richard Quinn doing also?

Is he injuried because I don't think he's played a single down this preseason?

[Lonestar]

let me say first, that I am not a smith lover and could care less if we keep him or dont.....



But imo it would be monumentally stupid to cut him loose now. Just think about it. We often times see teams go 4-5 wide. And we will see it a lot. As more and more teams are going pass heavy.



So we have champ, goody, nate, cox---do you really want syd to be the 5th guy out there. Or what if someone goes down, do you really want syd to be who we are going to rely on??



Answer this honestly as if you were a coach. I know I sure as hell wouldnt. What has syd done at CB, not on KR, but at CB? Yes he had the pick 6. On a gift that the qb threw right to him all alone. It was a nice play and I do not want to discount it....But has anyone actually ever looked at his coverage plays, vs alphonso smiths?

THe last two games I have watched the fonz only on D. I am not all that impressed, but he is quick and he has for the most part blanketed his wr. Have you noticed why the qb was not ever throwing at smith. Because he had his guy locked up. I have yet to re watch syd, but I do not think we can accurately judge his coverage ability by 1 game against backups.


I am just trying to be open minded about this. But to me nothing warrants keeping syd over phonz in the CB dept. Just his ST play. Which does warrant it. But we also have royla, willis, cox who can do it too. So with all that said, I still think syd makes the squad, but I also think that phonz makes it too and is listed higher on the depth chart. I mean wouldnt it make sense, if you were a coach?


As we have seen time and time again CB wind up with Ham strings, ankles or concussions all the time.

mikey used to say you can never have enough RBs, Cbs or LBs he was wise in that regard. I suspect that thompson will wind up PS. and then recalled if no one steps up.

[Northman]

Alphonso Smith could be one and done in Denver
Posted by Gregg Rosenthal on August 31, 2010 12:31 PM ET
Josh McDaniels made a few questionable decisions during his desultory first draft as Broncos head coach, but none looks worse than the decision to trade a first-round pick for cornerback Alphonso Smith.

The draft class has time to turn it around, but Smith may not. One year later, Dave Krieger of the Denver Post writes that Smith may not even make the team.

At this point, Smith appears to be battling rookie seventh-round pick Syd'Quan Thompson for the ninth and possibly final defensive back roster spot. Thompson is coming off a preseason performance that showed more promise than anything Smith has done as a pro.

Look, we understand bad picks happen. But McDaniels traded a 2010 first-round pick to Seattle to take Smith No. 37 overall. (The traded pick turned into the No. 14 selection; Seattle took Earl Thomas.) If you are going to gamble that big on an undersized cornerback, you better be right.

Smith's possible release points out just how hard it is to judge college talent. The Broncos took cornerbacks Perrish Cox and Thompson in the fifth and seventh-round respectively in 2010. They both look like long-term keepers.

Smith, essentially taken with a first-round pick, may be one and done.

Yep. I pointed to this the other night.

[Northman]

let me say first, that I am not a smith lover and could care less if we keep him or dont.....



But imo it would be monumentally stupid to cut him loose now. Just think about it. We often times see teams go 4-5 wide. And we will see it a lot. As more and more teams are going pass heavy.



So we have champ, goody, nate, cox---do you really want syd to be the 5th guy out there. Or what if someone goes down, do you really want syd to be who we are going to rely on??



Answer this honestly as if you were a coach. I know I sure as hell wouldnt. What has syd done at CB, not on KR, but at CB? Yes he had the pick 6. On a gift that the qb threw right to him all alone. It was a nice play and I do not want to discount it....But has anyone actually ever looked at his coverage plays, vs alphonso smiths?

THe last two games I have watched the fonz only on D. I am not all that impressed, but he is quick and he has for the most part blanketed his wr. Have you noticed why the qb was not ever throwing at smith. Because he had his guy locked up. I have yet to re watch syd, but I do not think we can accurately judge his coverage ability by 1 game against backups.


I am just trying to be open minded about this. But to me nothing warrants keeping syd over phonz in the CB dept. Just his ST play. Which does warrant it. But we also have royla, willis, cox who can do it too. So with all that said, I still think syd makes the squad, but I also think that phonz makes it too and is listed higher on the depth chart. I mean wouldnt it make sense, if you were a coach?

Smith cant tackle so whether a team goes 5 wide or not is still a problem for Denver regardless. You can always sign another guy who can at least tackle.

[Nomad]

Too bad! He did a great job at WF! :ohwell: Just goes to show you that some players don't pan out in the NFL no matter how good in college!! I'm sure McDaniels is learning from his rookie mistakes!!

[Northman]

Too bad! He did a great job at WF! :ohwell: Just goes to show you that some players don't pan out in the NFL no matter how good in college!! I'm sure McDaniels is learning from his rookie mistakes!!

If he knows when to cut his losses he is learning. If he chooses Smith over any other DB we have he is a moron.

[Nomad]

If he knows when to cut his losses he is learning. If he chooses Smith over any other DB we have he is a moron.

We'll see after Sunday or is the Vikings game Sat?? But you're right!! Progress over Pride!:D

[underrated29]

I still dont see any other cbs not making the roster that we want too....


Who else would you guys like to see make the team at DB?, more specifically CB?


I cant think of anyone, so as it stands phonzie still makes the team along with everyone else, and phonz is higher on the DC than syd.

[Northman]

I cant think of anyone, so as it stands phonzie still makes the team along with everyone else, and phonz is higher on the DC than syd.

I think that will change. As already pointed out Syd brings more to the table than Smith at this point.

[TXBRONC]

So we have champ, goody, nate, cox---do you really want syd to be the 5th guy out there. Or what if someone goes down, do you really want syd to be who we are going to rely on??



Answer this honestly as if you were a coach. I know I sure as hell wouldnt. What has syd done at CB, not on KR, but at CB? Yes he had the pick 6. On a gift that the qb threw right to him all alone. It was a nice play and I do not want to discount it....But has anyone actually ever looked at his coverage plays, vs alphonso smiths?

THe last two games I have watched the fonz only on D. I am not all that impressed, but he is quick and he has for the most part blanketed his wr. Have you noticed why the qb was not ever throwing at smith. Because he had his guy locked up. I have yet to re watch syd, but I do not think we can accurately judge his coverage ability by 1 game against backups.


I am just trying to be open minded about this. But to me nothing warrants keeping syd over phonz in the CB dept. Just his ST play. Which does warrant it. But we also have royla, willis, cox who can do it too. So with all that said, I still think syd makes the squad, but I also think that phonz makes it too and is listed higher on the depth chart. I mean wouldnt it make sense, if you were a coach?

Seriously Under I would trust Syd and Cassius Vaughn over Smith. I just haven't been that impressed with what he has done when has been in there.

Yes sometimes teams will go 5 wide but how often?

[Northman]

Seriously Under I would trust Syd and Cassius Vaughn over Smith. I just haven't been that impressed with what he has done when has been in there.

Yes sometimes teams will go 5 wide but how often?

Not only that but a 5th wideout vs Smith or even Syd at this point is a wash. There really isnt going to be a 5th wideout who will burn Syd with the speed he has. Oh, and he can tackle.

[I Eat Staples]

McDaniels isn't learning from his mistakes, he took two project players in the first round this year and he's still looking for character over talent.

[Northman]

McDaniels isn't learning from his mistakes, he took two project players in the first round this year and he's still looking for character over talent.

Meh, all coaches will take risks and im all for giving Tebow and Thomas a chance to prove themselves. But Smith has had a year and 3 preseason games to show his worth and not only is being outplayed by rookies but other DB's from last year are already starting and contributing to their respective teams. Oh, and they can tackle.

[underrated29]

Im telling you guys he makes the team and so do all the other cbs, cept vaugh, he is PS.


But I guess we shall see in about what, week and a half?

[TXBRONC]

Not only that but a 5th wideout vs Smith or even Syd at this point is a wash. There really isnt going to be a 5th wideout who will burn Syd with the speed he has. Oh, and he can tackle.

Exactly and what I think push him ahead is that fact he can also return punts and kicks.

[dogfish]

champ,goody,cox,alphonzo,nate,syd......dawk,hill,b ruton,mcbath


last year we kept, champ,goody,alhphonzo,tylaw,carter.......dawk,hill ,bruton,mcbath, barrett


so this year since carter and barret is gone, we keep 6cb and 4dbs instead of 5 dbs and 5 s.

Remember Nate jones can play S in a pinch and is also a ST guy like barrett was.

that's fine if you're right-- but i'm going to be pissed if we cut cox or thompson for phonse. . . those guys have already done way more than him in limited opportunities to show that they can make plays. . . we've needed a legit return man forever-- cox also looks like a keeper at corner, and syd has plenty of potential there. . . if anything, they seriously need to cut nate "no upside" jones before either of those kids. . .

[topscribe]

McDaniels isn't learning from his mistakes, he took two project players in the first round this year and he's still looking for character over talent.

I don't consider Thomas a project player. All reports came back that, when he
was practicing, he was like a man among boys out there. He impressed Champ.
You know, All-World Champ.

I'm not sure I agree with the selection of Tebow, but not because he is a
"project." He was selected because he has what some perceive as superstar
qualities, so I can see the logic in that. If he does turn out as the Broncos FO
thinks he can, then he will have been worth every bit of his first-round selection.
So I don't necessarily disagree - I'm just on the fence a bit.

But between last year's and this year's first-day selections, the only one that
still sticks in my craw is that of Alphonso Smith. (Well, I'm not enamored by
that of Richard Quinn, but if he turns out to be as devastating a blocker as
they think, he might be worth it.)

The first-day selections I like best are Ayers, Thomas, and Beadles. Generally,
I personally like the first-day selections, so far . . .

-----

[Northman]

that's fine if you're right-- but i'm going to be pissed if we cut cox or thompson for phonse. . . those guys have already done way more than him in limited opportunities to show that they can make plays. . . we've needed a legit return man forever-- cox also looks like a keeper at corner, and syd has plenty of potential there. . . if anything, they seriously need to cut nate "no upside" jones before either of those kids. . .

Thats the only thing that worries me. Nomad touched on it if McD keeps him out of pride and we lose one of the other guys i will not be a happy camper. If people think im a poo poo'er now just wait if they cut Syd or Cox in place of Smith. lol

[Tempus Fugit]

I expect that Smith will make the team.

[underrated29]

that's fine if you're right-- but i'm going to be pissed if we cut cox or thompson for phonse. . . those guys have already done way more than him in limited opportunities to show that they can make plays. . . we've needed a legit return man forever-- cox also looks like a keeper at corner, and syd has plenty of potential there. . . if anything, they seriously need to cut nate "no upside" jones before either of those kids. . .

Yes and yes and .....


No way cox is getting cut. He is playing ahead of phonz and is 2nd behind champ.! Cox is da man!!!


I agree so effing much about Nate it is ridiculous. That guy looks worse to me than smith, and I was saying that at TC. That is saying something because i still do not think smith is all that great. I guess josh just likes him because he can play ST gunner and S in a pinch.

Phonz imo is ahead of syd in coverage but behind on ST returns and tackling and coolness. Syd looks like a mini predator! (thats intimidating) But both will make the roster. no way we cut syd and try to sneak him to the PS...He made the roster with his game against the steel.

[claymore]

Smith makes me miss Lenny Walls.

[Northman]

Smith makes me miss Lenny Walls.

:lol:

And thats saying something.

[TXBRONC]

Smith makes me miss Lenny Walls.

I'll see your Lenny Walls and raise you a Kelly Herndon.

[claymore]

:lol:

And thats saying something.

I was so happy when we drafted Darrent Williams.

[Northman]

I'll see your Lenny Walls and raise you a Kelly Herndon.

Dude, i love you TX but no need to go that low. Come on bra. :lol:

[Dreadnought]

I'll see your Lenny Walls and raise you a Kelly Herndon.

Roc Alexander. Case closed

[Northman]

Roc Alexander. Case closed

Oh SHIT! lmao

[topscribe]

Isn't Willie Middlebroken going to get any love here?

-----

[TXBRONC]

Dude, i love you TX but no need to go that low. Come on bra. :lol:


Roc Alexander. Case closed

Ok Dread wins! :lol:

[Lonestar]

Thats the only thing that worries me. Nomad touched on it if McD keeps him out of pride and we lose one of the other guys i will not be a happy camper. If people think im a poo poo'er now just wait if they cut Syd or Cox in place of Smith. lol

Have you seen anything that makes you think that Josh will do this instead of keeping the best man as HIS coaches think.

I have to re state that MOST CB's are not great tacklers they are there to defend the pass and take the balls away from the wr's

Primary jobs being those above and because MOST CB are under 200 pounds in most cases they just have to ride them down.

Few are schooled in being great tacklers in college. IMO

[claymore]

Dread won the game of Gay chicken fellas. Lets wrap it up and close this thread.

[Northman]

Have you seen anything that makes you think that Josh will do this instead of keeping the best man as HIS coaches think.

I have to re state that MOST CB's are not great tacklers they are there to defend the pass and take the balls away from the wr's

Primary jobs being those above and because MOST CB are under 200 pounds in most cases they just have to ride them down.

Few are schooled in being great tacklers in college. IMO

So wait, if one guy is far worse at tackling another you think its ok to keep him just because thats not their speciality? And for starters i would disagree anyway. Tackling is a FUNDAMENTAL of the sport itself. Give me a ******* break dude. Never the less, at this point Smith is not even the best DB we have anyway.

[slim]

Roc Alexander. Case closed

/thread

[Lonestar]

So wait, if one guy is far worse at tackling another you think its ok to keep him just because thats not their speciality? And for starters i would disagree anyway. Tackling is a FUNDAMENTAL of the sport itself. Give me a ******* break dude. Never the less, at this point Smith is not even the best DB we have anyway.

For most of the team tackling is fundamental but for CB a lot less so, ball hawking and coverage is their primary job.

How about we let the coaches decide who is best to keep, cut or trade. I suspect they have a better insight or game film than we do and they actually get paid to make those types of decisions.


Seemed to be OK to do that in the past for most fans.

[Northman]

For most of the team tackling is fundamental but for CB a lot less so, ball hawking and coverage is their primary job.

How about we let the coaches decide who is best to keep, cut or trade. I suspect they have a better insight or game film than we do and they actually get paid to make those types of decisions.


Seemed to be OK to do that in the past for most fans.

Than feel free to leave the thread. Im here to discuss this topic and give my input. If its not important to you than you shouldnt be in this thread now should ya slick?

[I Eat Staples]

they seriously need to cut nate "no upside" jones before either of those kids. . .

This. He's a scrub and won't get better.


I don't consider Thomas a project player. All reports came back that, when he
was practicing, he was like a man among boys out there. He impressed Champ.
You know, All-World Champ.

I'm not sure I agree with the selection of Tebow, but not because he is a
"project." He was selected because he has what some perceive as superstar
qualities, so I can see the logic in that. If he does turn out as the Broncos FO
thinks he can, then he will have been worth every bit of his first-round selection.
So I don't necessarily disagree - I'm just on the fence a bit.

But between last year's and this year's first-day selections, the only one that
still sticks in my craw is that of Alphonso Smith. (Well, I'm not enamored by
that of Richard Quinn, but if he turns out to be as devastating a blocker as
they think, he might be worth it.)

The first-day selections I like best are Ayers, Thomas, and Beadles. Generally,
I personally like the first-day selections, so far . . .

-----

I consider Thomas a project because he only ran like 3 routes in college. I like the Beadles pick, I would have taken Dez over Thomas, and I liked the Ayers pick at the time so I won't criticize it just because it didn't work out yet.

[broncogirl7]

Too much competition, Smith will be out...

[turftoad]

Too much competition, Smith will be out...

I can't believe it BG7, this is probably the first time I have ever agreed with you. :D :D :D

[BeefStew25]

For most of the team tackling is fundamental but for CB a lot less so, ball hawking and coverage is their primary job.

How about we let the coaches decide who is best to keep, cut or trade. I suspect they have a better insight or game film than we do and they actually get paid to make those types of decisions.


Seemed to be OK to do that in the past for most fans.

OMG! No, let's make the decision for them! Silly.

[broncogirl7]

I can't believe it BG7, this is probably the first time I have ever agreed with you. :D :D :D

LOL. Hell must be freezing over. LOL.

[Ravage!!!]

Look at the tackling totals at the end of each season for CBs, on every team in the NFL, then come back and try to make a case that its not a "primary" skill for their position.

[topscribe]

Look at the tackling totals at the end of each season for CBs, on every team in the NFL, then come back and try to make a case that its not a "primary" skill for their position.

Yup. If you're a CB and not a tackler, you'd better be as good in coverage as Deion was . . .

-----

[Ravage!!!]

Yup. If you're a CB and not a tackler, you'd better be as good in coverage as Deion was . . .

-----

Excellent example. Even as great a cover guy he was he still isn't considered, by everyone, to be the best to play purely because he was terrible tackler.

[topscribe]

Excellent example. Even as great a cover guy he was he still isn't considered, by everyone, to be the best to play purely because he was terrible tackler.

I think Orton's tackle Sunday evening topped the best tackle Deion ever made. :laugh:

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[Northman]

I think Orton's tackle Sunday evening topped the best tackle Deion ever made. :laugh:

-----

I think its safe to say that Deion would of ran the other way. :lol:

[TXBRONC]

Too much competition, Smith will be out...


I can't believe it BG7, this is probably the first time I have ever agreed with you. :D :D :D


LOL. Hell must be freezing over. LOL.

Yeah it must be freezing over because I think you might be right BG7.

[Sconnie Bronco]

I think Orton's tackle Sunday evening topped the best tackle Deion ever made. :laugh:

-----

go to the kickoff at 1:12.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KAJMl9PAp40


The guy he chased down could run a 4.21 forty.

[claymore]

I think Orton's tackle Sunday evening topped the best tackle Deion ever made. :laugh:

-----

Orton threw himself on the ground and Harrison landed on him. Orton later complained that it was dirty.

I wouldnt call it a tackle.

[Dreadnought]

Orton threw himself on the ground and Harrison landed on him. Orton later complained that it was dirty.

I wouldnt call it a tackle.

It was still better'n a Deion tackle, Clay. Deion tackled like a 3rd grade girl

[topscribe]

Orton threw himself on the ground and Harrison landed on him. Orton later complained that it was dirty.

I wouldnt call it a tackle.

No he didn't.

-----

[topscribe]

go to the kickoff at 1:12.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KAJMl9PAp40


The guy he chased down could run a 4.21 forty.

Deion was very fast.

He also couldn't tackle.

Or wouldn't . . .

-----

[claymore]

It was still better'n a Deion tackle, Clay. Deion tackled like a 3rd grade girl

Im not saying Orton cant tackle better. Im just sayin that wasnt a tackle. It was a flop on the ground followed by a large fast man pummeling him.

[shank]

didn't read thread...

i supported phonz, but i'm thinking he very well could be done here soon. yes it sucks that we "wasted" a pick on him... but shit happens.

"first" round bust happen. but you know what else happens? fifth and seventh round gems, which it seems we have found in cox and thompson. it all evens out IMO, even if phonz doesn't pan out...

[Ravage!!!]

didn't read thread...

i supported phonz, but i'm thinking he very well could be done here soon. yes it sucks that we "wasted" a pick on him... but shit happens.

"first" round bust happen. but you know what else happens? fifth and seventh round gems, which it seems we have found in cox and thompson. it all evens out IMO, even if phonz doesn't pan out...

Not in mine. Every organization has the busts, but all find the gems. You can pay a lot of "gems" before you reach the cost of a first round bust.

Not o mention, these guys aren't gems until they can actually prove to play well in more than one NFL season.... or even ONE nfl game.

[Ravage!!!]

Im not saying Orton cant tackle better. Im just sayin that wasnt a tackle. It was a flop on the ground followed by a large fast man pummeling him.

Wait... :confused: Isn't this the exact same way you described your weekend?

[Sconnie Bronco]

Deion was very fast.

He also couldn't tackle.

Or wouldn't . . .

-----

Deion couldn't tackle? I haven't heard that before.

Sorry but Deion should have never been mentioned in a thread about Smith.

[Ravage!!!]

Deion couldn't tackle? I haven't heard that before.

Yeah.. none of us heard of him tackling, either. :lol:

[shank]

Every organization has the busts

which is why i don't find the phonz pick as offensive as many others on here. he was a very good college football player, and our staff thought he could bring those skills to the NFL, despite his physical shortcomings.

they were hoping for an elvis doomervil instead of going for a brian bosworth. i don't fault them, cause who WOULDN'T love to go back in time and take doom earlier than the 4th?

if phonz would have come in as a rookie and played like cox is playing now, i don't think we'd have seen too many people bitching.

that's why it's all a wash to me in the end. they took a risk on production. every organization has the busts.

[topscribe]

Deion couldn't tackle? I haven't heard that before.

Sorry but Deion should have never been mentioned in a thread about Smith.

Fine. Then ignore it. :noidea:

-----

[Sconnie Bronco]

Fine. Then ignore it. :noidea:

-----

Right. Just like you and all the other Orton zealots should ignore the Tebow threads/posts.

[Bosco]

speculation. He is not one and done. I guarantee he makes the team.

Exactly. Smith has been the best corner on the team outside of Champ and Goodman this preseason. I don't know where the hell Krieger is getting his information but he should probably consider a good source, or just quit putting out mud slinging pieces.

[topscribe]

Exactly. Smith has been the best corner on the team outside of Champ and Goodman this preseason. I don't know where the hell Krieger is getting his information but he should probably consider a good source, or just quit putting out mud slinging pieces.

Actually, Krieger is pretty abrasive at times, but I have found him pretty insightful.
Now, he might be wrong about Smith, and I might, too. I'm just going by what I've
seen and heard, but I don't claim to be an expert in evaluating corners.

At any rate, I dearly hope you're right . . .

-----

[Ravage!!!]

which is why i don't find the phonz pick as offensive as many others on here. he was a very good college football player, and our staff thought he could bring those skills to the NFL, despite his physical shortcomings.

they were hoping for an elvis doomervil instead of going for a brian bosworth. i don't fault them, cause who WOULDN'T love to go back in time and take doom earlier than the 4th?

if phonz would have come in as a rookie and played like cox is playing now, i don't think we'd have seen too many people bitching.

that's why it's all a wash to me in the end. they took a risk on production. every organization has the busts.

But all draft picks are taken because the current regime "thinks" they can make the transition. The thought process of "well they thought he was the best corner in the draft" doesn't really hold a lot of clout for a defense, when they can't even beat out un-drafted FAs or 7th round picks.

A lot of players are out of the NFL, not because of how they played, but because of how they played compared to the place they were drafted. Would we be complaining about Smith if he was a 7th round pick. Well, we would still be saying he needs to be cut...but at least the word "bust" wouldn't be involved.

But you shouldn't be taking a "risk" with 1st round picks. Hence why other players taken in the first round will ALWAYS have more critical eyes on them.

[Ravage!!!]

Sorry but Deion should have never been mentioned in a thread about Smith.

ANY time, the discussion moves to a player having the inability to tackle.... Deion's name absolutely SHOULD be mentioned. If you are talking about a CB taht can't make a tackle, Deion's name is at the very top of EVERY discussion. Since the only comparison made was "if a CB can't tackle, they better be able to cover like Deion Sanders".... thats very much RIGHT ON THE MARK.

[Bosco]

Actually, Krieger is pretty abrasive at times, but I have found him pretty insightful.
Now, he might be wrong about Smith, and I might, too. I'm just going by what I've
seen and heard, but I don't claim to be an expert in evaluating corners.

At any rate, I dearly hope you're right . . .

-----

I'd just like to know where him (and apparently many posters here) are seeing this massive failure from. I've watched every preseason game two times now and every time Smith has been I've seen a guy who locks down his receiver in man coverage and has made major strides in zone play. His coverage has been so solid that until Pittsburgh, teams pretty much avoided him, and when Pittsburgh attacked him they had almost zero success.

Seriously, I don't understand what other people are using to get so down on him. The coaching staff doesn't seem to be seeing it either.

[Northman]

which is why i don't find the phonz pick as offensive as many others on here. he was a very good college football player, and our staff thought he could bring those skills to the NFL, despite his physical shortcomings.

they were hoping for an elvis doomervil instead of going for a brian bosworth. i don't fault them, cause who WOULDN'T love to go back in time and take doom earlier than the 4th?

if phonz would have come in as a rookie and played like cox is playing now, i don't think we'd have seen too many people bitching.

that's why it's all a wash to me in the end. they took a risk on production. every organization has the busts.


You make some great points about players being busts. That i can agree with and i think thats what has happened here with Smith. But, lets just hope McD doesnt cut someone else loose that has more potential and has already shown more than Smith at this point. Smith has been terrible with a lot of the easy fundamentals and going by the majority sentiment in Bronco nation along with Krieger's insight its quite clear Smith isnt the player that McD thought he had.

[Slick]

But all draft picks are taken because the current regime "thinks" they can make the transition. The thought process of "well they thought he was the best corner in the draft" doesn't really hold a lot of clout for a defense, when they can't even beat out un-drafted FAs or 7th round picks.

A lot of players are out of the NFL, not because of how they played, but because of how they played compared to the place they were drafted. Would we be complaining about Smith if he was a 7th round pick. Well, we would still be saying he needs to be cut...but at least the word "bust" wouldn't be involved.

But you shouldn't be taking a "risk" with 1st round picks. Hence why other players taken in the first round will ALWAYS have more critical eyes on them.

I think you can take risks in the first round in two ways...

1) If your team already has loads of returning talent.

2) You stockpile picks in order to move up and eventually end up with two first round selections again.

[Ravage!!!]

I think you can take risks in the first round in two ways...

1) If your team already has loads of returning talent.

2) You stockpile picks in order to move up and eventually end up with two first round selections again.

I agree with 1), but not two. You are still paying the 1st round pick to be a first round pick. That player still has the high expectations to perform like a 1st round pick. I personally don't care if you "stockpiled" to move up, because you always had the chance to use those picks on other players.

IMO.. first round picks should be the closest you can get to picking a 'sure thing' that you can make. Obviously no one knows, but thats why I don't believe you "take a chance" with them, because,that by definition, is knowing they aren't sure things.

[Northman]

I agree with 1), but not two. You are still paying the 1st round pick to be a first round pick. That player still has the high expectations to perform like a 1st round pick. I personally don't care if you "stockpiled" to move up, because you always had the chance to use those picks on other players.

IMO.. first round picks should be the closest you can get to picking a 'sure thing' that you can make. Obviously no one knows, but thats why I don't believe you "take a chance" with them, because,that by definition, is knowing they aren't sure things.


Ill add that its one thing to bust on a player. But to bust on a player that you HAD to have and moved up to get means that you had far more expectations and should of received that type of play.

[topscribe]

I'd just like to know where him (and apparently many posters here) are seeing this massive failure from. I've watched every preseason game two times now and every time Smith has been I've seen a guy who locks down his receiver in man coverage and has made major strides in zone play. His coverage has been so solid that until Pittsburgh, teams pretty much avoided him, and when Pittsburgh attacked him they had almost zero success.

Seriously, I don't understand what other people are using to get so down on him. The coaching staff doesn't seem to be seeing it either.

You obviously have studied Phonz more closely than I, and I respect that. It's very good news to me.

-----

[broncobryce]

I wouldn't write him off yet.

[Bosco]

You obviously have studied Phonz more closely than I, and I respect that. It's very good news to me.

-----

I think maybe it's just because he hasn't made flashy plays. Cox and Thompson both ended up with picks so in their mind, that means they outplayed Cox.

[Northman]

I think maybe it's just because he hasn't made flashy plays. Cox and Thompson both ended up with picks so in their mind, that means they outplayed Cox.

Yea, thats it. :rolleyes::lol:

[I Eat Staples]

these guys aren't gems until they can actually prove to play well in more than one NFL season.... or even ONE nfl game.

This. :salute:


Deion couldn't tackle? I haven't heard that before.

Sorry but Deion should have never been mentioned in a thread about Smith.

You need to listen more then. Deion was a worse tackler than Antonio Cromartie. That's bad.


Right. Just like you and all the other Orton zealots should ignore the Tebow threads/posts.

That's what I do.


I think maybe it's just because he hasn't made flashy plays. Cox and Thompson both ended up with picks so in their mind, that means they outplayed Cox.

Cox is so good he outplayed himself.

[Slick]

I agree with 1), but not two. You are still paying the 1st round pick to be a first round pick. That player still has the high expectations to perform like a 1st round pick. I personally don't care if you "stockpiled" to move up, because you always had the chance to use those picks on other players.

IMO.. first round picks should be the closest you can get to picking a 'sure thing' that you can make. Obviously no one knows, but thats why I don't believe you "take a chance" with them, because,that by definition, is knowing they aren't sure things.

Good points and I agree to an extent. Allow me to explain my train of thought.

I think in our case this year, by adding all picks...we ended up with what, like 11 or 12? Are you really going to sign or find room for that many rookies in one off season?

You already have a serviceable QB on the roster, you can afford to take a flyer on a guy like Tebow IMO. He doesn't have to come in and succeed right away because there is a decent option at his position. I guess I have no problem with what we did. For me, that risk is worth the potential reward. I do see your point however.

Now what we did the year before...trading a first round pick for a second, even if it was next years first...I still can't wrap my head around that. Idiotic. Josh blew his load that year. He´s rebuilding a team, and he's not going to do it in one year.

[arapaho2]

I think you can take risks in the first round in two ways...

1) If your team already has loads of returning talent.

2) You stockpile picks in order to move up and eventually end up with two first round selections again.


i always though if you had loads of returning talent and had no wish to trade down....you took the best player available...and not just say lets risk it on a chance

[I Eat Staples]

i always though if you had loads of returning talent and had no wish to trade down....you took the best player available...and not just say lets risk it on a chance

Josh McDaniels was told it was "take the highest character guy available".

[BroncoWave]

Josh McDaniels was told it was "take the highest character guy available".

Then why did he draft Perrish Cox and sign LenDale White?

[Denver Native (Carol)]

http://msn.foxsports.com/nfl/story/NFL-cutdown-deadline-players-to-be-cut-traded-2010-preseason

Who could be cut

Brandon Stokley, Broncos WR – For many years, the veteran was widely recognized as one of the better slot receivers in the NFL. But Stokley has dealt with a lingering groin injury which has caused him to miss the last two preseason games and practice time in training camp. The decision to move third-year WR Eddie Royal primarily to the slot could play into the coaching staff’s choice to keep Stokley around. But if he winds up getting cut, he certainly could find a job elsewhere rather easily. Personnel sources said he still moves around enough and works well in confined areas just like he did years ago with the Indianapolis Colts.

Who could be traded

Alphonso Smith, Broncos CB – The second-round pick out of the 2009 draft has fallen down so far down the cornerback depth that he’s now not a certainty to make the 53-man roster. In fact, fifth-round pick Perrish Cox, who the team is very high on, is listed ahead of Smith. But what could keep Smith on the roster is the fact that Denver traded its first-round pick in the 2010 draft in order to be able to select him. Smith’s base salaries are pretty low (2010 - $395,000, 2011 - $480,000, 2012 - $565,000), so trading him shouldn’t be prohibitive. And Smith is actually a player that was very well liked by scouting sources prior to last year’s draft.

[I Eat Staples]

Then why did he draft Perrish Cox and sign LenDale White?

First of all, I wouldn't say they have character issues.

Second of all, he didn't have much to lose with a 5th round pick and FA signing.

I guess everyone will take a chance on these "low character" guys once in a while. McD needs to take a few more.

[BroncoWave]

First of all, I wouldn't say they have character issues.

Second of all, he didn't have much to lose with a 5th round pick and FA signing.

I guess everyone will take a chance on these "low character" guys once in a while. McD needs to take a few more.

The answer is because they have talent, which just blows holes all in your ridiculous theory.

[I Eat Staples]

The answer is because they have talent, which just blows holes all in your ridiculous theory.

So did Cutler, Marshall, Scheffler, Hillis (arguably), and Dez Bryant. He traded or passed on them for guys with "higher character". If you haven't yet realized that McD values character more than talent, then you haven't been paying attention to him.

[Poet]

I doubt he gets cut. The higher draft pick you are, the more leeway you have. For an example on my team, look at Jerome Simpson.

For an example on your team, Jarvis or Jervis or Jacks or J-terribad Moss or something like that.

He's going to get at least another year, imo.

[Bosco]

Yea, thats it. :rolleyes::lol:

Then tell me what you're seeing that leads you to your judgment. So far all I've seen is you bitching about him missing the tackle on a blitz. Can you point me to some missed assignments, blown coverages or anything else that is shaping your negative opinion of him? As I said earlier, I've watched every game twice now and I am simply not seeing all this horrible play on his part.

[topscribe]

So did Cutler, Marshall, Scheffler, Hillis (arguably), and Dez Bryant. He traded or passed on them for guys with "higher character". If you haven't yet realized that McD values character more than talent, then you haven't been paying attention to him.

Kyle has outplayed Cutler, and not by just a little bit; the receivers have very
effectively filled the hole Marshall left; and Hillis would still be #4 or #5 on the
depth chart. So what McDaniels values must be working, so far . . .

-----

[I Eat Staples]

Kyle has outplayed Cutler, and not by just a little bit; the receivers have very
effectively filled the hole Marshall left; and Hillis would still be #4 or #5 on the
depth chart. So what McDaniels values must be working, so far . . .

-----

Filled the hole Marshall left? We have yet to play a regular season game without him. :confused:

I agree on Hillis, I don't think he really fits anything we want to do on offense. But I think Cutler would have been really good on our team.

And how can you say anything he's done is working, or has worked? We won't know until after the season.

[topscribe]

Filled the hole Marshall left? We have yet to play a regular season game without him. :confused:

I agree on Hillis, I don't think he really fits anything we want to do on offense. But I think Cutler would have been really good on our team.

And how can you say anything he's done is working, or has worked? We won't know until after the season.

I said McDaniels' values must be working so far.

Concentrate!

-----

[arapaho2]

Then why did he draft Perrish Cox and sign LenDale White?

because josh speaks with a forked tounge:lol:

[I Eat Staples]

I said McDaniels' values must be working so far.

Concentrate!

-----

Yet what are you basing that on? Preseason? You're the one who needs to concentrate. How can anything be working or not when we haven't played a regular season game yet?

[turftoad]

Kyle has outplayed Cutler, and not by just a little bit; the receivers have very
effectively filled the hole Marshall left; and Hillis would still be #4 or #5 on the
depth chart. So what McDaniels values must be working, so far . . .

-----

Thats right Top, and he showed that by making the playoffs last year. Must be working. :confused:

[topscribe]

Yet what are you basing that on? Preseason? You're the one who needs to concentrate. How can anything be working or not when we haven't played a regular season game yet?

Wow. Just wow. :rolleyes:



Thats right Top, and he showed that by making the playoffs last year. Must be working. :confused:

That's not fair, Turf, and you ought to know that. I haven't necessarily been a fan
of McDaniels' at any time up to now, but I know enough to give a coach more than
one year. And so should you . . .

-----

[Bosco]

Yet what are you basing that on? Preseason? You're the one who needs to concentrate. How can anything be working or not when we haven't played a regular season game yet?

Oh the irony.


Thats right Top, and he showed that by making the playoffs last year. Must be working. :confused: Mike Shanahan didn't make the playoffs until his 4th year as a Head Coach and 2nd year with Denver.

Just for historical reference.

[Northman]

Who could be traded

Alphonso Smith, Broncos CB – The second-round pick out of the 2009 draft has fallen down so far down the cornerback depth that he’s now not a certainty to make the 53-man roster. In fact, fifth-round pick Perrish Cox, who the team is very high on, is listed ahead of Smith. But what could keep Smith on the roster is the fact that Denver traded its first-round pick in the 2010 draft in order to be able to select him. Smith’s base salaries are pretty low (2010 - $395,000, 2011 - $480,000, 2012 - $565,000), so trading him shouldn’t be prohibitive. And Smith is actually a player that was very well liked by scouting sources prior to last year’s draft.

Surely this cant be the case. I mean afterall, he has been stellar in preseason at least according to one individual. I mean, ive watched the preseason games at least 10 times each and i just cant see how anyone would think he is better than the rest on the squad.

[I Eat Staples]

Wow. Just wow. :rolleyes:

My thoughts exactly when I read your post. Glad you agree.



That's not fair, Turf, and you ought to know that. I haven't necessarily been a fan
of McDaniels' at any time up to now, but I know enough to give a coach more than
one year. And so should you . . .

-----

But you're saying what he's doing is working. You have no evidence to support your claim. I'm not calling for his head after one season. But it is completely ridiculous to imply his methods are working.

I don't agree with his methods. You do. That has been established. But saying that his methods are working implies that results have been posted. They haven't. So you have nothing to base your claim on.

[Bosco]

Surely this cant be the case. I mean afterall, he has been stellar in preseason at least according to one individual. I mean, ive watched the preseason games at least 10 times each and i just cant see how anyone would think he is better than the rest on the squad.

Unless you were just talking out of your ass again (which is highly likely) then why haven't you offered up any examples to his poor play even after being directly asked? Surely if Alphonso was playing that terrible, you'd have something.

Right?

[Northman]

Unless you were just talking out of your ass again (which is highly likely) then why haven't you offered up any examples to his poor play even after being directly asked? Surely if Alphonso was playing that terrible, you'd have something.

Right?


I do have something. Its called HE CANT TACKLE WORTH SHIT. I also have 2 articles now that question if he will even be here anymore. What do you have?

[Ravage!!!]

How about the fact that he clearly can't out play a 7th round pick. Couldn't even get on the field because he was beaten out by an undrafted rookie last season. He's not the best of the bunch. He's terrible. If he was playing so "well".. there would be articles talking about how he is finally going to "break out" and show he was WELL worth wasting a 1st round pick on.

Instead, there are articles on how he might not even make the team. This isn't because we are the only ones that can see how lousy Smith is.

[Northman]

How about the fact that he clearly can't out play a 7th round pick. Couldn't even get on the field because he was beaten out by an undrafted rookie last season. He's not the best of the bunch. He's terrible. If he was playing so "well".. there would be articles talking about how he is finally going to "break out" and show he was WELL worth wasting a 1st round pick on.

Instead, there are articles on how he might not even make the team. This isn't because we are the only ones that can see how lousy Smith is.

Dude, seriously. Its pretty obvious to anyone who knows football what is going on there. Will they cut him? Highly doubtful because of where he was taken. But to think he has had a EXCELLENT preseason because he can follow a receiver around on the field doesnt constitute greatness. Especially when said receivers catch the ball and he cant even tackle them. :lol:

[Tempus Fugit]

...If he was playing so "well".. there would be articles talking about how he is finally going to "break out" and show he was WELL worth wasting a 1st round pick on...

:laugh:

Now THAT'S good comedy. The way the poster pretends that he thinks columnists know good corner play from bad? Beautiful use of ironic humor.

[Northman]

:laugh:

Now THAT'S good comedy. The way the poster pretends that he thinks columnists know good corner play from bad? Beautiful use of ironic humor.

As opposed to some wannabe on a message board?

[Bosco]

I do have something. Its called HE CANT TACKLE WORTH SHIT. His lack of tackling prowness was well known to anyone who scouted him. The Broncos knew that when they drafted him, and it's something that is one of the less important skills you seek in cornerbacks.

That said, you keep point to one tackle he missed on an all out blitz. Is that it? How about something more pertinent to his ability as a corner? Anything?


I also have 2 articles now that question if he will even be here anymore. Well now that is mighty convincing stuff there, especially coming from a bastion of journalistic integrity like Dave Krieger. I guess I should just dismiss everything the film says in favor of this tool.

Like you though, he sure seems to have a tough time citing reasons for his stance.

[Northman]

His lack of tackling prowness was well known to anyone who scouted him. The Broncos knew that when they drafted him, and it's something that is one of the less important skills you seek in cornerbacks.

Yea, because thats why DB's have tons a tackles every year in a PASS HEAVY league.


That said, you keep point to one tackle he missed on an all out blitz. Is that it? How about something more pertinent to his ability as a corner? Anything?

:lol:

And you said you watched the games? He's had more than one missed tackle in this preseason genius. Go back and have another tall glass of epic fail. :beer:

[Ravage!!!]

:laugh:

Now THAT'S good comedy. The way the poster pretends that he thinks columnists know good corner play from bad? Beautiful use of ironic humor.

Yeah.. as opposed to some MB "talent scout" who keeps bragging that he knows more about the NFL than anyone/everyone else. Btw... thats not irony. :coffee:

[topscribe]

My thoughts exactly when I read your post. Glad you agree.




But you're saying what he's doing is working. You have no evidence to support your claim. I'm not calling for his head after one season. But it is completely ridiculous to imply his methods are working.

I don't agree with his methods. You do. That has been established. But saying that his methods are working implies that results have been posted. They haven't. So you have nothing to base your claim on.

You know, you not only have a hard time understanding what I have written the
first time, but you can't seem to understand even after I have gone to the effort
of explaining it. Most everyone else on this board can understand what I write.
Guess I'll talk to them and not waste my time with you . . .

-----

[HORSEPOWER 56]

T-R-A-D-E S-M-I-T-H. There have got to be a couple of teams that need CB depth. The only reason Smith is in so much hot water with the press and the fans is because he's in this secondary. I'd bet the Ravens would probably give up a 4th or 5th for him and he'd probably do well there.

[Northman]

T-R-A-D-E S-M-I-T-H. There have got to be a couple of teams that need CB depth. The only reason Smith is in so much hot water with the press and the fans is because he's in this secondary. I'd bet the Ravens would probably give up a 4th or 5th for him and he'd probably do well there.

Surely we can nab a first for him. He's awesome or cant you see it?

[Ravage!!!]

His lack of tackling prowness was well known to anyone who scouted him. The Broncos knew that when they drafted him, and it's something that is one of the less important skills you seek in cornerbacks.

THats the biggest load of horse dung. Corners have TONS of tackles in the NFL. Unlesss you expect them to defend every pass thrown to their guy, or, every pass thrown to the OTHER guy... then they better know how to tackle well.

As pointed out in another thread... unless you can cover like Deion Sanders, you better be a DAMNED good tackler in the NFL. If he's not, then it just shows yet ANOTHER lack of decision making when using a 1st round pick on him.

[I Eat Staples]

You know, you not only have a hard time understanding what I have written the
first time, but you can't seem to understand even after I have gone to the effort
of explaining it. Most everyone else on this board can understand what I write.
Guess I'll talk to them and not waste my time with you . . .

-----

Actually no, you haven't explained any of your reasoning yet. All you've said is that McD's strategy is working, with no results to back up your claim.

[Bosco]

How about the fact that he clearly can't out play a 7th round pick. How has Thompson outplayed him? Until the other night he barely saw the field, while Smith has got extensive playing time.

Your posts don't jive with reality.


Couldn't even get on the field because he was beaten out by an undrafted rookie last season. Irrelevant. Focus on the here and now.


Yea, because thats why DB's have tons a tackles every year in a PASS HEAVY league. You know that of the Top 50 tacklers last year, a total of 5 corners made the list?


:lol:

And you said you watched the games? He's had more than one missed tackle in this preseason genius. Go back and have another tall glass of epic fail. :beer: Failing to keep up again I see. YOU are the one focusing on that one missed tackle. I never said it was the only one he missed.

Let's drop the mental midget act and get with the program here.

[I Eat Staples]

Surely we can nab a first for him. He's awesome or cant you see it?

Yeah, in a few years when we fire McDaniels we can trade Smith to the next team he decides to ruin. :elefant:

[Northman]

YOU are the one focusing on that one missed tackle. I never said it was the only one he missed.



Uh no. Ive pointed out all his miss tackles this preseason. YOUR the one who has only talked about the one in the Pitt game. Sorry, more epic fail on your part. Want to keep playing?

[atwater27]

Let's drop the mental midget act and get with the program here.

That would be good smack talk. If you were, say, at a convalescent home and someone just stole your pudding.

[ydave77]

Quick question for the Nortman/Bosco debate...
Is it possible you 2 simply disagree on the qualities of what makes a good corner?
I have seen in this thread and many others, North, you always attack Alphonso for his tackling abilities.
I agree that Alphonso's tackling definitely leaves much to be desired. He has missed a number I have seen on preseason.
That said, I have not seen many completions against the man he was covering. In fact without reviewing every game, I would guess its less than 3.
Would you say thats accurate north, or do you think his coverage skills suck too?

[Bosco]

Uh no. Ive pointed out all his miss tackles this preseason. YOUR the one who has only talked about the one in the Pitt game. Sorry, more epic fail on your part. Want to keep playing?

Search engine says you're lying.

http://www.broncosforums.com/forums/search.php?searchid=1528620

[Bosco]

Quick question for the Nortman/Bosco debate...
Is it possible you 2 simply disagree on the qualities of what makes a good corner?
I have seen in this thread and many others, North, you always attack Alphonso for his tackling abilities.
I agree that Alphonso's tackling definitely leaves much to be desired. He has missed a number I have seen on preseason.
That said, I have not seen many completions against the man he was covering. In fact without reviewing every game, I would guess its less than 3.
Would you say thats accurate north, or do you think his coverage skills suck too?

I've never contested his lack of tackling ability, so that's not the issue. In reality, I think it's very simple.

- Northman has decided he doesn't like Josh

- Alphonso is the most widely disliked of the 2009 picks.

- Alphonso failing would reinforce Northman's opinion of Josh

- Northman sees a missed tackle or two, makes up his mind that Alphonso has not improved.

- When faced with conflicting viewpoint, rather than consider it, he further commits to his viewpoint and attempts to mock the opposing view point rather than debate it.

I think that's it in a nutshell.

[spikerman]

Wasn't Smith's skill as a kick returner one of the reasons he was drafted? Have they even tried to use him in that capacity this year? They may have and I missed it, but I can't remember them even trying it once.

[Bosco]

Wasn't Smith's skill as a kick returner one of the reasons he was drafted? Have they even tried to use him in that capacity this year? They may have and I missed it, but I can't remember them even trying it once.

He was was never much of a kick returner in college, so I'd have to question if that was true or not.

[BroncoWave]

Wasn't Smith's skill as a kick returner one of the reasons he was drafted? Have they even tried to use him in that capacity this year? They may have and I missed it, but I can't remember them even trying it once.

He had a combined 11 punt/kick returns in his college career so I think it's kinda a myth that we drafted him for that reason.

[spikerman]

I've never contested his lack of tackling ability, so that's not the issue. In reality, I think it's very simple.

- Northman has decided he doesn't like Josh

- Alphonso is the most widely disliked of the 2009 picks.

- Alphonso failing would reinforce Northman's opinion of Josh

- Northman sees a missed tackle or two, makes up his mind that Alphonso has not improved.

- When faced with conflicting viewpoint, rather than consider it, he further commits to his viewpoint and attempts to mock the opposing view point rather than debate it.

I think that's it in a nutshell.
Speaking just for me, it's not that I don't like Smith, it's that he's the most glaring example of the poor personnel decisions the team made last year in the draft. I think most experts would agree that Denver gave up WAY too much to take a flyer on him. I would also argue that Denver gave up way too much to take Richard Quinn, but that's probably another discussion.

As to whether Smith has improved much, unless some of us on here have access to game film we probably can't know since we can't see him for the entirety of the play unless the ball is thrown to his receiver. What we can base it on is how other NFL "people" and sports reporters mention that he is on the bubble. They are going to have access to sources within the organization who do get to watch him every day.

That being said, I don't think the Broncos cut him because of the cost it took to get him.

[spikerman]

He was was never much of a kick returner in college, so I'd have to question if that was true or not.


He had a combined 11 punt/kick returns in his college career so I think it's kinda a myth that we drafted him for that reason.

Thanks. It's entirely possible that I'm not remembering correctly. I didn't watch him much in college and I'm old so the ol' memory ain't what it used to be.

[TXBRONC]

Wasn't Smith's skill as a kick returner one of the reasons he was drafted? Have they even tried to use him in that capacity this year? They may have and I missed it, but I can't remember them even trying it once.

Yep he was suppose to be able to help out in the return game while developing his skills as a corner back.

Yes he got an opportunity to return kicks last and punts last year and he did a poor job. 10 punt returns with a return average of 4.7 yards and 4 kick off returns with an average of 18.8 per return.

[Bosco]

Speaking just for me, it's not that I don't like Smith, it's that he's the most glaring example of the poor personnel decisions the team made last year in the draft. I think most experts would agree that Denver gave up WAY too much to take a flyer on him. I would also argue that Denver gave up way too much to take Richard Quinn, but that's probably another discussion. See, even though I disagree with these viewpoints, at least they have some individual thought and merit behind them. You're right though, it is another discussion as players need to be judged on their individual merits. Whether we spent too much to get them or not, needs to be directed at the front office.


As to whether Smith has improved much, unless some of us on here have access to game film we probably can't know since we can't see him for the entirety of the play unless the ball is thrown to his receiver. What we can base it on is how other NFL "people" and sports reporters mention that he is on the bubble. They are going to have access to sources within the organization who do get to watch him every day.

That being said, I don't think the Broncos cut him because of the cost it took to get him. This one I disagree with. By and large, sports reporters are as clueless...or worst...than the average arm chair quarterback. Very few of them are at all useful for evaluating how well a player is playing.

This is especially true in Denver, where Josh McDaniels showed up and promptly booted the media out of Dove Valley just like the Patriots are apt to do. To date, Schefter and Peter King are the only guys who have shown to get reliable, accurate information out of Denver. To my knowledge, none of them have echoed the concerns that Krieger and the like have shared.

[Bosco]

Thanks. It's entirely possible that I'm not remembering correctly. I didn't watch him much in college and I'm old so the ol' memory ain't what it used to be.

It's more likely that some moron in the media reported this and so you actually did hear correctly, you just heard information that was likely incorrect. :D

[topscribe]

Just a quick question: Bosco says he watched each game twice, concentrating
almost exclusively on Alphonso Smith. Has anybody else done that, or
evaluated him to a significant degree, or is everyone going by random spottings
and news bits from the media?

-----

[spikerman]

Just a quick question: Bosco says he watched each game twice, concentrating
almost exclusively on Alphonso Smith. Has anybody else done that, or
evaluated him to a significant degree, or is everyone going by random spottings
and news bits from the media?

----- I have not, but IMO, without game film or being at the stadium it's pretty difficult to judge since we don't see everything over the network feeds. Obviously there is something keeping him from being higher on the depth chart.

[Northman]

Quick question for the Northman/Bosco debate... Is it possible you 2 simply disagree on the qualities of what makes a good corner?

I think thats pretty evident. I like corners to be complete corners especially when they are taken high in the draft i expect results as a fan. If this was a late round pick i wouldnt care but having seen much better results from rookies this year im not impressed by Smith at all at any level. He hasnt been able to move up the depth chart and now there rumblings that he may not even make the cut.


I have seen in this thread and many others, North, you always attack Alphonso for his tackling abilities.I agree that Alphonso's tackling definitely leaves much to be desired. He has missed a number I have seen on preseason.Well, according to Bosco you and i must be imagining things when watching him whiff on tackles. But, lets keep that to ourselves. :listen:


That said, I have not seen many completions against the man he was covering. In fact without reviewing every game, I would guess its less than 3. Would you say thats accurate north, or do you think his coverage skills suck too?Could be any number of things.

1) How many times is he targeted? To simply say "well uh huh, he isnt being thrown too means he is awesome dude" just doesnt fly. For all we know the receiver that he is up against could be garbage so maybe the QB wont throw to that guy for that reason. I mean, dont you find it odd that Cox started in Bailey's place instead of Smith? I dont think it really takes rocket science to figure that out.

2)Even if he is thrown too he has shown he cant be relied upon to make the tackle. Thats a problem and one that Denver cant afford to have right now.



*Edit- I see Bosco didnt even attempt to answer your question instead to try and make it about me so i apologize for him.

[Northman]

Just a quick question: Bosco says he watched each game twice, concentrating
almost exclusively on Alphonso Smith. Has anybody else done that, or
evaluated him to a significant degree, or is everyone going by random spottings
and news bits from the media?

-----

Ive taken everything into account including watching the games.

[Northman]

I have not, but IMO, without game film or being at the stadium it's pretty difficult to judge since we don't see everything over the network feeds. Obviously there is something keeping him from being higher on the depth chart.

Surely you jest.

[Tempus Fugit]

Yeah.. as opposed to some MB "talent scout" who keeps bragging that he knows more about the NFL than anyone/everyone else. Btw... thats not irony. :coffee:

Try using your head, instead of just popping off with this sort of ridiculous comment. Reporters don't tend to know how to break down cornerback play during exhibition games. They don't know the play calling, and they don't know which person involved might have made a mistake. It's an inherent problem with the combination of not knowing the plays and not knowing enough about the personnel involved. That doesn't stop them from making claims, though, because that's how the business works.

It happens in every city and with every team. A couple years back, the Boston media had Matt Cassel getting cut from the team and Matt Gutierriez becoming the backup. Instead, Cassel remained the backup, Brady got hurt and Cassel took over as the starter. This year, it's been the same thing with different players.

[Lonestar]

Yup. If you're a CB and not a tackler, you'd better be as good in coverage as Deion was . . .

-----

the best CBs never see a tackle in their stats and the only reason that Champ is so good at it well we have sucked at stopping the run therefore he is more of a safety than a CB giving run support.

IF the CB is doing their job properly they break up passes and pick off balls. Therefore do not have to make a tackle.

the best CBs never see the ball thrown at them.

Now can he be taught to tackle? sure, but his forte is ball hawking. which is going to be what he remains strong at. The PI on hims the other night was a prime example of what he is supposed to do knock the ball away before they catch it.

I think it can be said the call was generous at best.

[Lonestar]

didn't read thread...

i supported phonz, but i'm thinking he very well could be done here soon. yes it sucks that we "wasted" a pick on him... but shit happens.

"first" round bust happen. but you know what else happens? fifth and seventh round gems, which it seems we have found in cox and thompson. it all evens out IMO, even if phonz doesn't pan out...

no only that but well it is not like this is the first bust on day one we have ever had :laugh::laugh::laugh::laugh::laugh:

[Northman]

IF the CB is doing their job properly they break up passes and pick off balls.

Which he hasnt done. Go figure.

[dogfish]

Obviously there is something keeping him from being higher on the depth chart.


http://img34.imageshack.us/img34/917/aliense.jpg (http://img34.imageshack.us/i/aliense.jpg/)

Uploaded with ImageShack.us (http://imageshack.us)


:heh:

[TXBRONC]

I think thats pretty evident. I like corners to be complete corners especially when they are taken high in the draft i expect results as a fan. If this was a late round pick i wouldnt care but having seen much better results from rookies this year im not impressed by Smith at all at any level. He hasnt been able to move up the depth chart and now there rumblings that he may not even make the cut.

Well, according to Bosco you and i must be imagining things when watching him whiff on tackles. But, lets keep that to ourselves. :listen:

Could be any number of things.

1) How many times is he targeted? To simply say "well uh huh, he isnt being thrown too means he is awesome dude" just doesnt fly. For all we know the receiver that he is up against could be garbage so maybe the QB wont throw to that guy for that reason. I mean, dont you find it odd that Cox started in Bailey's place instead of Smith? I dont think it really takes rocket science to figure that out.

2)Even if he is thrown too he has shown he cant be relied upon to make the tackle. Thats a problem and one that Denver cant afford to have right now.



*Edit- I see Bosco didnt even attempt to answer your question instead to try and make it about me so i apologize for him.

As I have had opportunity I have watched all three of Denver's preseason games on multiple occassion. Fact is he's missed several tackles and coverage hasn't been the most stellar that I have ever seen. And I might I add that's Alphonso going up against 2nd, 3rd, and 4th stringers. Imo the most notable play he's made is one he was flagged for against the Steeler.

If he's been the 3rd best corner on the team we are shit creek without a paddle when have to defend 3 receiver sets. Thankfully Cox looks like he could handle being the nickle back.

I would like for the kid to succeed but again from what I have seen it doesn't look like he's made improvement from last year to this year.

[Lonestar]

I'd just like to know where him (and apparently many posters here) are seeing this massive failure from. I've watched every preseason game two times now and every time Smith has been I've seen a guy who locks down his receiver in man coverage and has made major strides in zone play. His coverage has been so solid that until Pittsburgh, teams pretty much avoided him, and when Pittsburgh attacked him they had almost zero success.

Seriously, I don't understand what other people are using to get so down on him. The coaching staff doesn't seem to be seeing it either.

As I said before I'll let the coaches and FO worry about if he is doing the job or not.

If he is gone in a trade or stays as a dime or nickle back OK by me.


Good points and I agree to an extent. Allow me to explain my train of thought.

I think in our case this year, by adding all picks...ee ended up with what, like 11 or 12? Are you really going to sign or find room for that many rookies in one off season?

You already have a serviceable QB on the roster, you can afford to take a flyer on a guy like Tebow IMO. He doesn't have to come in and succeed right away because there is a decent option at his position. I guess I have no problem with what we did. For me, that risk is worth the potential reward. I do see your point however.

Now what we did the year before...trading a first round pick for a second, even if it was next years first...I still can't wrap my head around that. Idiotic. Josh blew his load that year. He´s rebuilding a team, and he's not going to do it in one year.

unlikely that after adding 35+ to the roster last year that 15 more are going to stick this year. and do something more than be backups.


Speaking just for me, it's not that I don't like Smith, it's that he's the most glaring example of the poor personnel decisions the team made last year in the draft. I think most experts would agree that Denver gave up WAY too much to take a flyer on him. I would also argue that Denver gave up way too much to take Richard Quinn, but that's probably another discussion.

As to whether Smith has improved much, unless some of us on here have access to game film we probably can't know since we can't see him for the entirety of the play unless the ball is thrown to his receiver. What we can base it on is how other NFL "people" and sports reporters mention that he is on the bubble. They are going to have access to sources within the organization who do get to watch him every day.

That being said, I don't think the Broncos cut him because of the cost it took to get him.

last year draft was well hastily put together with conflicting ideas of what was wanted in the way of players for what style we were going to play. IIRC Nolan had a lot of say on who was drafted. Not the final say but Josh just did not pick this lid out of the air and heap praise on him someone else on the defensive side must have analyzed him for Josh to be so high on him. just maybe it was the scouts initial commentary on him that placed such a high value on him. Y'all remember that they were fired just before the draft. MAybe this is one of the reasons.


Which he hasnt done. Go figure.

IF he does not allow a reception or denies the ball to the receiver how is he going to pick the ball.

Not sure why you are so bitter over this guy especially after this years crop being so good or seems to be.

you do realize that late round picks do work out sometimes and day one picks do not it happens every where in the NFL. not just to Josh.

[ydave77]

I think thats pretty evident. I like corners to be complete corners especially when they are taken high in the draft i expect results as a fan. If this was a late round pick i wouldnt care but having seen much better results from rookies this year im not impressed by Smith at all at any level. He hasnt been able to move up the depth chart and now there rumblings that he may not even make the cut.

Well, according to Bosco you and i must be imagining things when watching him whiff on tackles. But, lets keep that to ourselves. :listen:

Could be any number of things.

1) How many times is he targeted? To simply say "well uh huh, he isnt being thrown too means he is awesome dude" just doesnt fly. For all we know the receiver that he is up against could be garbage so maybe the QB wont throw to that guy for that reason. I mean, dont you find it odd that Cox started in Bailey's place instead of Smith? I dont think it really takes rocket science to figure that out.

2)Even if he is thrown too he has shown he cant be relied upon to make the tackle. Thats a problem and one that Denver cant afford to have right now.



*Edit- I see Bosco didnt even attempt to answer your question instead to try and make it about me so i apologize for him.

Thanks for the reply. I as most probably due, tend to fall the middle of you both. Unquestionably almost everyone would prefer having not traded for Phonsie, and realize that it was a mistake. That doesnt mean though that he still cant be a productive player. I am hoping* that the lack of completions against Smith indicate that he had his man locked up, and not the reasons you alluded to. No way of knowing without "game tape" though.

If he turns out to be a good cover corner, with poor tackle skills, say a Dre Bly type career (he was solid before he came to us), at this pt I would be happy enough, and I think this is still possible for him.

And here's to hoping Cox can become a #1 CB...

[Bosco]

I have not, but IMO, without game film or being at the stadium it's pretty difficult to judge since we don't see everything over the network feeds. Obviously there is something keeping him from being higher on the depth chart. You're exactly right. It's a rather poor medium for dissecting a player's performance, but as fans it's really all we have and we have to make the best of it. Apparently, Northman has identified something within that medium that allowed him to state that Alphonso was disappointing, so maybe he'll eventually cough it up and we can discuss it.



Could be any number of things.

1) How many times is he targeted? To simply say "well uh huh, he isnt being thrown too means he is awesome dude" just doesnt fly. For all we know the receiver that he is up against could be garbage so maybe the QB wont throw to that guy for that reason. I mean, dont you find it odd that Cox started in Bailey's place instead of Smith? I dont think it really takes rocket science to figure that out. So given this criteria, where is your counterpoint to mine? Any of those would be valid if you can actually cite some examples.

[TXBRONC]

Thanks for the reply. I as most probably due, tend to fall the middle of you both. Unquestionably almost everyone would prefer having not traded for Phonsie, and realize that it was a mistake. That doesnt mean though that he still cant be a productive player. I am hoping* that the lack of completions against Smith indicate that he had his man locked up, and not the reasons you alluded to. No way of knowing without "game tape" though.

If he turns out to be a good cover corner, with poor tackle skills, say a Dre Bly type career (he was solid before he came to us), at this pt I would be happy enough, and I think this is still possible for him.

And here's to hoping Cox can become a #1 CB...

Absolutely. Alphonso could develop into solid corner but in my opinion I don't think he's shown much improvement since coming to Denver.

[Lonestar]

Thanks for the reply. I as most probably due, tend to fall the middle of you both. Unquestionably almost everyone would prefer having not traded for Phonsie, and realize that it was a mistake. That doesnt mean though that he still cant be a productive player. I am hoping* that the lack of completions against Smith indicate that he had his man locked up, and not the reasons you alluded to. No way of knowing without "game tape" though.

If he turns out to be a good cover corner, with poor tackle skills, say a Dre Bly type career (he was solid before he came to us), at this pt I would be happy enough, and I think this is still possible for him.

And here's to hoping Cox can become a #1 CB...

BTW you can teach someone to tackle if you want them to do so. BUT natural cover skills are hard to teach if they do not have it by now.

[Ravage!!!]

The NFL doesn't "make" you a good tackler.

If he was drafted, using a first round pick, knowing he was small AND couldn't tackle ... then it again shows not to be the best choice. Especially if he was poor enough in coverage and in tackling, to be beat out by an undrafted player.

[Dzone]

I would guess that keeping Thompson is better financially for the club...how much $$4 will be saved?
If Sydqan turns out to be a far better player than A smith, then the lost #1 isnt quite as painful.

[Northman]

Thanks for the reply. I as most probably due, tend to fall the middle of you both. Unquestionably almost everyone would prefer having not traded for Phonsie, and realize that it was a mistake. That doesnt mean though that he still cant be a productive player. I am hoping* that the lack of completions against Smith indicate that he had his man locked up, and not the reasons you alluded to. No way of knowing without "game tape" though.

All solid points however seeing that the guy is competing with a rookie for the final spot it doenst really tell me that he was worth the value that we traded up for. And my biggest point in all this has been that when it comes to the rest of the squad outside of Bailey and Goodman that Cox and Thompson are better and have more to offer. If they keep them all than great but if one of the other guys gets cut to make room for Smith it would be a bad move in my opinion.


If he turns out to be a good cover corner, with poor tackle skills, say a Dre Bly type career (he was solid before he came to us), at this pt I would be happy enough, and I think this is still possible for him.

Players like Dre Bly are really only effective when you have a solid pass rush. We dont have that and that means that our DB's need to spend more time on their man and make tackles when those receivers get the ball. Believing that Smith can cover when he has been sent to cover 3rd and 4th stringers does not mean he can cover guys like Ocho Cinco, etc. And again i will point to Cox starting over him in place of Bailey. Smith has more tenure in Denver than Cox yet wasnt given the key to fill in for Champ. Thats pretty telling to me as far as his talent and progression as a player.


And here's to hoping Cox can become a #1 CB...

I think he is off too a good start. :beer:

[atwater27]

BTW you can teach someone to tackle if you want them to do so. BUT natural cover skills are hard to teach if they do not have it by now.

If you don't know how to tackle before you enter the NFL, there is no hope for you. Unless you are Deion Sanders.

[Lonestar]

If you don't know how to tackle before you enter the NFL, there is no hope for you. Unless you are Deion Sanders.

Then I guess that position coaches are not necessary, nor are tackling dummies.

Seem to remember over the past few years that club dove valley WAS recinded to bring back contact which included tackling as part of the training camp. Even mid way thorugh mikes lat year here he put them in pads and forced them them into tackling because as a TEAM we had forgotten or never learned how to do it. Guess it WAS also something they had to worry about.

Now in AS's case he never had to be great at it because he WAS a great CB in college where he WAS great at ball hawking.

If you really believe that everyone coming into the NFL does not have anything to learn or perfect, guessing you have not realized how much they learn in Otas, TC and individual coaching sessions.
Mobile Post via Mobile.BroncosForums.com/forums

[I Eat Staples]

All solid points however seeing that the guy is competing with a rookie for the final spot it doenst really tell me that he was worth the value that we traded up for. And my biggest point in all this has been that when it comes to the rest of the squad outside of Bailey and Goodman that Cox and Thompson are better and have more to offer. If they keep them all than great but if one of the other guys gets cut to make room for Smith it would be a bad move in my opinion.

That sums up how I feel. Personally I'd keep those 5 and cut or PS Cassius Vaughn and Nate Jones.

[Northman]

Shannon Sharpe just called.

He said Phonzie is so bad at tackling that he couldnt tackle Orton in a phone booth.

[Nomad]

Shannon Sharpe just called.

He said Phonzie is so bad at tackling that he couldnt tackle Orton in a phone booth.

Not good if you see two men in a phone booth together!!:D Do they even have phone booths or pay phones anymore??

[turftoad]

Then I guess that position coaches are not necessary, nor are tackling dummies.

Seem to remember over the past few years that club dove valley WAS recinded to bring back contact which included tackling as part of the training camp. Even mid way thorugh mikes lat year here he put them in pads and forced them them into tackling because as a TEAM we had forgotten or never learned how to do it. Guess it WAS also something they had to worry about.

Now in AS's case he never had to be great at it because he WAS a great CB in college where he WAS great at ball hawking.

If you really believe that everyone coming into the NFL does not have anything to learn or perfect, guessing you have not realized how much they learn in Otas, TC and individual coaching sessions.
Mobile Post via Mobile.BroncosForums.com/forums

When a player is worth a first round pick, he should need less work than a late round pick. Just sayin. AS needs a lot of work.

[Lonestar]

When a player is worth a first round pick, he should need less work than a late round pick. Just sayin. AS needs a lot of work.

Your partially correct if he was a FIRST round pick IIRC he was #37

but that fupaw aside few players taken in the draft are perfect and do not need to improve their game that is why we have coaches to help them improve techniques.

[topscribe]

Your partially correct if he was a FIRST round pick IIRC he was #37

but that fupaw aside few players taken in the draft are perfect and do not need to improve their game that is why we have coaches to help them improve techniques.

True, Phonz was a second-round pick. But he cost the Broncos a first-round
pick. I think that might have been what Turf probably was alluding to . . .

-----

[Lonestar]

True, Phonz was a second-round pick. But he cost the Broncos a first-round
pick. I think that might have been what Turf probably was alluding to . . .

-----

I know but then I was just trying to make sure EVERYONE knows he was not a #1 like so many seems to boost about, him being this years #14 because he was not and

Frankly had we had that pick I'm pretty sure that Josh would have traded back with it also. Seems to be his MO.

[claymore]

I know but then I was just trying to make sure EVERYONE knows he was not a #1 like so many seems to boost about, him being this years #14 because he was not and

Frankly had we had that pick I'm pretty sure that Josh would have traded back with it also. Seems to be his MO.

So far his MO has been over paying in the draft. We have a hurt WR, a project FB that can throw, R QUinn, A. Smith etc...

All of these guys were taken in the first 2 rounds, and none of them start.

Arguments can be made about Ayers and Moreno... but I like moreno, and think Ayers might work out.

[Northman]

I know but then I was just trying to make sure EVERYONE knows he was not a #1 like so many seems to boost about, him being this years #14 because he was not and




Well, he basically was when he gave away a future 1st round pick. The basis of Turf's post is that we moved up thinking we were taking a player who could come in and contribute more than he has. The fact that DB's taken after him last year are already starting and contributing to their teams tells me he made a major reach with Smith.

[BroncoWave]

Well, he basically was when he gave away a future 1st round pick. The basis of Turf's post is that we moved up thinking we were taking a player who could come in and contribute more than he has. The fact that DB's taken after him last year are already starting and contributing to their teams tells me he made a major reach with Smith.

The value of a future pick is worth half a current pick. So the 14th pick a year from now is only worth a high second the current year, which is right where we got Smith. So no, Smith was not a first round pick. He was a second rounder.

[topscribe]

Well, he basically was when he gave away a future 1st round pick. The basis of Turf's post is that we moved up thinking we were taking a player who could come in and contribute more than he has. The fact that DB's taken after him last year are already starting and contributing to their teams tells me he made a major reach with Smith.

Wow, I was pissed when the Broncos did that.

And my anger has not subsided . . . http://i258.photobucket.com/albums/hh256/AZDynamics/Smilies/thannoyed-1.gif

-----

[topscribe]

The value of a future pick is worth half a current pick. So the 14th pick a year from now is only worth a high second the current year, which is right where we got Smith. So no, Smith was not a first round pick. He was a second rounder.

Had the Broncos kept that pick, the value of it would have been first round, come this year . . .

-----

[BroncoWave]

Had the Broncos kept that pick, the value of it would have been first round, come this year . . .

-----

You are correct, but that is irrelevant when just looking at the 2009 draft, in which A. Smith was a second round pick.

Not saying at ALL that I agreed with the pick or that I agreed with what he traded to get it, I just don't think it's fair to label him as a first round pick when that's not what he is.

Had he been a flat out stud I can GUARANTEE that almost everyone on here would be like "wow, look what a steal McD got in the second round!".

[Northman]

The value of a future pick is worth half a current pick. So the 14th pick a year from now is only worth a high second the current year, which is right where we got Smith. So no, Smith was not a first round pick. He was a second rounder.

Was he traded for a 1st round pick? Yes or No?

[topscribe]

You are correct, but that is irrelevant when just looking at the 2009 draft, in which A. Smith was a second round pick.

Not saying at ALL that I agreed with the pick or that I agreed with what he traded to get it, I just don't think it's fair to label him as a first round pick when that's not what he is.

Had he been a flat out stud I can GUARANTEE that almost everyone on here would be like "wow, look what a steal McD got in the second round!".

Kind of like what the Broncos got in the fifth round this year? http://i258.photobucket.com/albums/hh256/AZDynamics/Smilies/thdrink.gif

-----

[Denver Native (Carol)]

My take - I believe that Smith was a back pick by Coach McD; however, to keep this to a minimum, there were also bad picks by the previous regime - it happens - nothing can be done about it now - time to move on.

[Northman]

You are correct, but that is irrelevant when just looking at the 2009 draft, in which A. Smith was a second round pick.

Not saying at ALL that I agreed with the pick or that I agreed with what he traded to get it, I just don't think it's fair to label him as a first round pick when that's not what he is.

Had he been a flat out stud I can GUARANTEE that almost everyone on here would be like "wow, look what a steal McD got in the second round!".

Actually, i would be like "wow, McD traded up to get this kid and he's a beast" but sadly, no.

[Northman]

And for those who like to keep up on current events. You can find the latest info on Richard Quinn and Alphonso Smith on VH1's latest episode of "Where are they now?".

[Ravage!!!]

The value of a future pick is worth half a current pick. So the 14th pick a year from now is only worth a high second the current year, which is right where we got Smith. So no, Smith was not a first round pick. He was a second rounder.

We used a first round pick, in the second round. Thats still using a first round pick on a player, and thus, he has first round "value" to the drafting team. The ONLY difference it makes that he was picked in the second round, is to the paycheck.

Otherwise, the symantics doesn't really matter.

[topscribe]

My take - I believe that Smith was a back pick by Coach McD; however, to keep this to a minimum, there were also bad picks by the previous regime - it happens - nothing can be done about it now - time to move on.

I know, I know, Carol. You make so much sense.

It's just . . . :frusty:

-----

[Northman]

My take - I believe that Smith was a back pick by Coach McD; however, to keep this to a minimum, there were also bad picks by the previous regime - it happens - nothing can be done about it now - time to move on.

I dont think anyone has argued that it hasnt been done before. But this has nothing to do with the previous HC. This has to do with the very CURRENT HC. Why should we move on when he is still the current HC? Are we not allowed to talk about him anymore? Did i miss a new rule in place here?

[BroncoWave]

We used a first round pick, in the second round. Thats still using a first round pick on a player, and thus, he has first round "value" to the drafting team. The ONLY difference it makes that he was picked in the second round, is to the paycheck.

Otherwise, the symantics doesn't really matter.

No he doesn't. Future picks aren't as valuable.

[topscribe]

I dont think anyone has argued that it hasnt been done before. But this has nothing to do with the previous HC. This has to do with the very CURRENT HC. Why should we move on when he is still the current HC? Are we not allowed to talk about him anymore? Did i miss a new rule in place here?

Don't let that offend you. Carol was only giving her opinion, too.

She's entitled to that as well, right?

-----

[Denver Native (Carol)]

I dont think anyone has argued that it hasnt been done before. But this has nothing to do with the previous HC. This has to do with the very CURRENT HC. Why should we move on when he is still the current HC? Are we not allowed to talk about him anymore? Did i miss a new rule in place here?

I said my take - I am moving on, - you all can do what you want

[Northman]

Don't let that offend you. Carol was only giving her opinion, too.

She's entitled to that as well, right?

-----

As long as its relevant to the actual discussion. I guess she could of left out the "move on" part as it wasnt relevant to the discussion.

[Ravage!!!]

I dont think anyone has argued that it hasnt been done before. But this has nothing to do with the previous HC. This has to do with the very CURRENT HC. Why should we move on when he is still the current HC? Are we not allowed to talk about him anymore? Did i miss a new rule in place here?

We know if it was the "previous regime" that we would be hearing about it and complaining about the "current" HC and not talking about how it happened in the past.

I sure don't seem to see anyone talking about all the late round "finds" that the previous regime found to make up for some of the first round mistakes.

[turftoad]

Your partially correct if he was a FIRST round pick IIRC he was #37

but that fupaw aside few players taken in the draft are perfect and do not need to improve their game that is why we have coaches to help them improve techniques.

Actually, he would have been #14 this year cuz thats what McD gave up for him. He surley thought he was first round talant because thats what he trade/gave up for him.

[Denver Native (Carol)]

As long as its relevant to the actual discussion. I guess she could of left out the "move on" part as it wasnt relevant to the discussion.

My apologies - I realize that I am the only one who has ever posted something that wasn't relevant to the discussion.

[claymore]

My apologies - I realize that I am the only one who has ever posted something that wasn't relevant to the discussion.

I still love you Carol.

[topscribe]

Actually, he would have been #14 this year cuz thats what McD gave up for him. He surley thought he was first round talant because thats what he trade/gave up for him.

I might go back to this year's draft and see who was available at #14.

But I can't afford the window I would throw something through . . .

-----

[topscribe]

I still love you Carol.

There goes the neighborhood . . .

-----

[Northman]

My apologies - I realize that I am the only one who has ever posted something that wasn't relevant to the discussion.

You know i love you. :D

[Denver Native (Carol)]

I still love you Carol.

I know - UNTIL the next time :D

[BigDaddyBronco]

I don't know Claymore's love is pretty deep. He is still weeping over Cutler.

[ikillz0mbies]

So......trading away this year's first round pick for Alphonso Smith is McDaniels' "throwing egg against the wind." That's been established. Perhaps, last year, he was thinking the Broncos would have a higher record, resulting with the pick much lower than 14? I don't know, but whether the Broncos had the 14th pick of this year or the 32nd, a first rounder is still a first rounder. It's just one of those blunders every coach makes and McDaniels is not immune to them.

[bcbronc]

And again i will point to Cox starting over him in place of Bailey. Smith has more tenure in Denver than Cox yet wasnt given the key to fill in for Champ. Thats pretty telling to me as far as his talent and progression as a player.



every player develops at a different rate. Cox looking great so far doesn't automatically guarantee he'll go on to have the better pro career. and even if he does, that doesn't mean Smith can't also develop into a solid player.


When a player is worth a first round pick, he should need less work than a late round pick. Just sayin. AS needs a lot of work.

but you don't generally expect a second rounder to come in and start immediately, especially at corner. basically McDaniels felt a year of development time was worth dropping back a round in the draft. Smith was a playmaker in college, and it's those instincts that got him drafted. form and technique can be refined, but instincts you got or you don't. obviously Smith wasn't NFL-ready last season and might not be this season either, but that doesn't mean he won't be.

Cox passing him on the depth chart is more a testament to Cox's play than anything else. Cox simply earned the PT.

[Northman]

every player develops at a different rate. Cox looking great so far doesn't automatically guarantee he'll go on to have the better pro career. and even if he does, that doesn't mean Smith can't also develop into a solid player.



but you don't generally expect a second rounder to come in and start immediately, especially at corner. basically McDaniels felt a year of development time was worth dropping back a round in the draft. Smith was a playmaker in college, and it's those instincts that got him drafted. form and technique can be refined, but instincts you got or you don't. obviously Smith wasn't NFL-ready last season and might not be this season either, but that doesn't mean he won't be.

Cox passing him on the depth chart is more a testament to Cox's play than anything else. Cox simply earned the PT.


Then you would agree we spent too much on him no? There were a couple of DB's taken right after we took Smith who started immediately with one being the Patriots and both did very well in their first year. Again, i have no problem with a player developing but one that you trade away picks and consider a "must have" i expect to see results far sooner than whats happening. I mean, you make a valid point but one could also say that Smith is just flat out a bust no? I mean, there is that possibility.

[TXBRONC]

Actually, he would have been #14 this year cuz thats what McD gave up for him. He surley thought he was first round talant because thats what he trade/gave up for him.

IIRC serveral people here insisted that if Smith had been taken in just about any other draft he would have been a first round pick.

Also McDaniels said he thought of Smith as first round pick.

[claymore]

I don't know Claymore's love is pretty deep. He is still weeping over Cutler.

If anything Im consistent.

[claymore]

We all love Cox. If Alphonso doesnt wake up and realize how bad ass our cox is, it will bite him in the ass.

[slim]

We all love Cox. If Alphonso doesnt wake up and realize how bad ass our cox is, it will bite him in the ass.

There are alot of good position battles going on.

For one, Branson needs to realize that Dick is coming after him hot and heavy. Dude needs watch his back side.

[Bosco]

Then you would agree we spent too much on him no? There were a couple of DB's taken right after we took Smith who started immediately with one being the Patriots and both did very well in their first year. That was Darius Butler. He started 5 games for a Patriots team that was pretty much depleted of cornerback talent. Not real comparable to Alphonso, who was behind arguably the greatest cornerback in the game and a very solid veteran on the other side.


I mean, you make a valid point but one could also say that Smith is just flat out a bust no? I mean, there is that possibility. Sure, there is that possibility. There's also just as much possibility that he bounces back from a rough rookie year and becomes the top flight corner we thought we were drafting. Making a declaration either way after only one year is intellectually flawed.

[Northman]

That was Darius Butler. He started 5 games for a Patriots team that was pretty much depleted of cornerback talent. Not real comparable to Alphonso, who was behind arguably the greatest cornerback in the game and a very solid veteran on the other side.

Sure, there is that possibility. There's also just as much possibility that he bounces back from a rough rookie year and becomes the top flight corner we thought we were drafting. Making a declaration either way after only one year is intellectually flawed.

Hence why ive maintained its my opinion after what ive seen.

[I Eat Staples]

I might go back to this year's draft and see who was available at #14.

But I can't afford the window I would throw something through . . .

-----

Earl Thomas was chosen at #14 by Seattle. He should be a good safety, and can even play some corner I believe.

I'm not sure why everyone is so upset by the Smith pick. It's not the only proof that McD can't judge talent.

[turftoad]

Earl Thomas was chosen at #14 by Seattle. He should be a good safety, and can even play some corner I believe.

I'm not sure why everyone is so upset by the Smith pick. It's not the only proof that McD can't judge talent.

And we haven't even started talking about Richard Quinn yet. Another reach. :salute:

[I Eat Staples]

And we haven't even started talking about Richard Quinn yet. Another reach. :salute:

I've yet to see Quinn reach for a pass.

[turftoad]

every player develops at a different rate. Cox looking great so far doesn't automatically guarantee he'll go on to have the better pro career. and even if he does, that doesn't mean Smith can't also develop into a solid player.



but you don't generally expect a second rounder to come in and start immediately, especially at corner. basically McDaniels felt a year of development time was worth dropping back a round in the draft. Smith was a playmaker in college, and it's those instincts that got him drafted. form and technique can be refined, but instincts you got or you don't. obviously Smith wasn't NFL-ready last season and might not be this season either, but that doesn't mean he won't be.

Cox passing him on the depth chart is more a testament to Cox's play than anything else. Cox simply earned the PT.

McD viewed him as a first rounder, not a second, thus giving up the #14 pick in this years draft.
That said, you really don't expect a first round CB to take 3 years to develope into a playable option. I mean, he hasn't even developed into a nickle as of yet.
Hell, he may not even make the roster.

[slim]

McD viewed him as a first rounder, not a second, thus giving up the #14 pick in this years draft.
That said, you really don't expect a first round CB to take 3 years to develope into a playable option. I mean, he hasn't even developed into a nickle as of yet.
Hell, he may not even make the roster.

Yes, the draft is a crap shoot.

I think that is pretty well established.

[turftoad]

Yes, the draft is a crap shoot.

I think that is pretty well established.

Especially when you try to reach to far for guys. ;)

[I Eat Staples]

Especially when you try to reach to far for guys. ;)

Especially when your coach doesn't understand how it works.

[Benetto]

McD's Ego is bigger than his brain...That's why Phonsie will not be cut yet.

[sanluis]

Originally Posted by bcbronc View Post
every player develops at a different rate. Cox looking great so far doesn't automatically guarantee he'll go on to have the better pro career. and even if he does, that doesn't mean Smith can't also develop into a solid player.



but you don't generally expect a second rounder to come in and start immediately, especially at corner. basically McDaniels felt a year of development time was worth dropping back a round in the draft. Smith was a playmaker in college, and it's those instincts that got him drafted. form and technique can be refined, but instincts you got or you don't. obviously Smith wasn't NFL-ready last season and might not be this season either, but that doesn't mean he won't be.

Cox passing him on the depth chart is more a testament to Cox's play than anything else. Cox simply earned the PT.
I agree...
Q Jammer took 3 years to become a good corner. He was taken 5th over-all and started right away after holding out. He was king of the PI and drove most Charger fans nuts.A.Smith might take a while to develope as well. Corner is just about the most difficult position to play on D. You are out on an island and it takes a while to take things to the next level.

[bcbronc]

[QUOTE=turftoad;1050714]McD viewed him as a first rounder, not a second, thus giving up the #14 pick in this years draft.

but your giving no value to having a year of development. in a given draft year, maybe the top 1-2 CBs have a reasonable expectation to start as rookie. that year of development has to be included in the equation.

everyone agrees Smith had a disappointing rookie season. but there have been corners who go on to have good careers after a disappointing first season or two.


That said, you really don't expect a first round CB to take 3 years to develope into a playable option. I mean, he hasn't even developed into a nickle as of yet.
Hell, he may not even make the roster.


All McDaniels' 1st round picks save Moreno have been projects. Ayers, DT, Tebow, Smith if you want to include him, all considered projects by the analysts. I guess we'll see how many pan out.

[Lonestar]

I agree...
Q Jammer took 3 years to become a good corner. He was taken 5th over-all and started right away after holding out. He was king of the PI and drove most Charger fans nuts.A.Smith might take a while to develope as well. Corner is just about the most difficult position to play on D. You are out on an island and it takes a while to take things to the next level.

:salute:

your beating a dead horse. once a few have someone in their cross hairs they are dead meat in their eyes. and will never be forgiven.

While many of us will wait till logical decisions are made.

[broncobryce]

:deadhorse:

Bring on the games! We need a new horse. ;)

[Lonestar]

I agree...
Q Jammer took 3 years to become a good corner. He was taken 5th over-all and started right away after holding out. He was king of the PI and drove most Charger fans nuts.A.Smith might take a while to develope as well. Corner is just about the most difficult position to play on D. You are out on an island and it takes a while to take things to the next level.

One of the best posts comes from a NON fan. how insightful is that.

Make one stop and wonder if SOME are to close to see the forest for the trees.

[spikerman]

One of the best posts comes from a NON fan. how insightful is that.

Make one stop and wonder if SOME are to close to see the forest for the trees.

Just out of curiosity Jr, and I promise I'm not trying to be a smart alec, but has McDaniels made any decisions with which you don't agree?

[Bosco]

All McDaniels' 1st round picks save Moreno have been projects. Ayers, DT, Tebow, Smith if you want to include him, all considered projects by the analysts. I guess we'll see how many pan out.

Exactly. I keep trying to tell people this, but many refuse to listen. McD is assembling a layer of solid veteran talent to hold the fort until these young, talented players are ready to take over. Some people need to just ease up and wait for the results to come together.

[I Eat Staples]

Subjectivity can be a bitch.

[spikerman]

I'm just not sure using the first round to draft "projects" is the best way to be successful.

[Tempus Fugit]

Exactly. I keep trying to tell people this, but many refuse to listen. McD is assembling a layer of solid veteran talent to hold the fort until these young, talented players are ready to take over. Some people need to just ease up and wait for the results to come together.

The internet, combined with such things as fantasy football, has really made the idea of player development seem like a foreign concept to a lot of fans. It's made for very unrealistic notions of things like rebuilding and drafting success, as well.

[Bosco]

The internet, combined with such things as fantasy football, has really made the idea of player development seem like a foreign concept to a lot of fans. It's made for very unrealistic notions of things like rebuilding and drafting success, as well.

You're absolutely right.

[Lonestar]

Just out of curiosity Jr, and I promise I'm not trying to be a smart alec, but has McDaniels made any decisions with which you don't agree?


on first thought bringing in Paxton pissed me off. but then after the rave reviews of the punter and holders about how accurate he was and then someone did the math on what it would have cost to resign Leach who was one of my adoptees. Figured it was not such a bad move.

I would have liked him to pick up a NT on day one. But sounds like they have plans for Williams replacement.

Have really liked his BALLS on draft day to get the players they want and still not cost an arm and a leg.

We all know that the previous guy reached a lot for talent but Usually did it from where he was drafting. very little movement for mikey..

Just do not see why everyone is bitching about Joshes second year in drafting when they gave mikey about 15 to get it right. except for 06 where everyone thought he did so good the other first day players did not get a second contract save for 3 LB's one DE, One QB and there was dan neil . IIRC 6 players out of 39 if my math is correct about 15%

Most of mikeys failure were cut in year three during TC when they knew for sure they were busts go back and look at all the wasted money.


http://www.nfl.com/draft/history/fulldraft?teamId=1400&type=team

these were all day one picks none but SIX ever got a second contract IN DEN.

2008 - Denver Broncos
Rd Sel # Player Position School
1 12 Ryan Clady T Boise State
2 42 Eddie Royal WR Virginia Tech


2007 - Denver Broncos
Rd Sel # Player Position School
1 17 Jarvis Moss DE Florida
2 56 Tim Crowder DE Texas


2006 - Denver Broncos
Rd Sel # Player Position School
1 11 Jay Cutler QB Vanderbilt
2 61 Tony Scheffler TE Western Michigan

2005 - Denver Broncos
Rd Sel # Player Position School
2 56 Darrent Williams CB Oklahoma State
3 76 Karl Paymah DB Washington State
3 97 Domonique Foxworth CB Maryland
3 101 Maurice Clarett --

2004 - Denver Broncos
Rd Sel # Player Position School
1 17 D.J. Williams OLB Miami (Fla.)
2 41 Tatum Bell RB Oklahoma State
2 54 Darius Watts WR Marshall
3 85 Jeremy LeSueur CB Michigan

2003 - Denver Broncos
Rd Sel # Player Position School
1 20 George Foster T Georgia
2 51 Terry Pierce LB Kansas State

2002 - Denver Broncos
Rd Sel # Player Position School
1 19 Ashley Lelie WR Hawaii
2 51 Clinton Portis RB Miami (Fla.)
3 96 Dorsett Davis DT Mississippi State

2001 - Denver Broncos
Rd Sel # Player Position School
1 24 Willie Middlebrooks CB Minnesota
2 51 Paul Toviessi DE Marshall
3 87 Reggie Hayward DE Iowa State

2000 - Denver Broncos
Rd Sel # Player Position School
1 15 Deltha O'Neal CB California
2 40 Ian Gold LB Michigan
2 45 Kenoy Kennedy SAF Arkansas
3 70 Chris Cole WR Texas A&M

999 - Denver Broncos
Rd Sel # Player Position School
1 31 Al Wilson MLB Tennessee
2 58 Montae Reagor DE Texas Tech
2 61 Lennie Friedman C Duke
3 67 Chris Watson CB Eastern Illinois

98 - Denver Broncos
Rd Sel # Player Position School
1 30 Marcus Nash WR Tennessee
2 61 Eric Brown SS Mississippi State
3 91 Brian Griese QB Michigan

1997 - Denver Broncos
Rd Sel # Player Position School
1 28 Trevor Pryce DT Clemson
3 67 Dan Neil G Texas

1996 - Denver Broncos
Rd Sel # Player Position School
1 15 John Mobley OLB Kutztown
2 44 Tory James DB Louisiana State
3 65 Detron Smith RB Texas A&M
3 78 Mark Campbell DT Florida

1995 - Denver Broncos
NONE

When Josh tops or even gets close to those numbers then I'll have less positive to say about his players.

[dogfish]

:salute:

your beating a dead horse. once a few have someone in their cross hairs they are dead meat in their eyes. and will never be forgiven.

While many of us will wait till logical decisions are made.

:shocked:



:spit:



:lol::lol::lol:


:hahaha::pound: :laugh: :rofl: :pound:

[Northman]

:salute:

your beating a dead horse. once a few have someone in their cross hairs they are dead meat in their eyes. and will never be forgiven.

While many of us will wait till logical decisions are made.

Indeed. Midgets get a lot of flack on here.

[Lonestar]

:shocked:



:spit:



:lol::lol::lol:


:hahaha::pound: :laugh: :rofl: :pound:

:salute:
glad you got it

[Buff]

Trade him to Baltimore for a 3rd. Problem solved. /thread

[atwater27]

Had he been a flat out stud I can GUARANTEE that almost everyone on here would be like "wow, look what a steal McD got in the second round!".

But he isn't. :rolleyes:

[nevcraw]

a lot of talk for a surefire game day inactive.

[dogfish]

Trade him to Baltimore for a 3rd. Problem solved. /thread

sounds good, make it happen. . .

[TXBRONC]

Indeed. Midgets get a lot of flack on here.

They do indeed. :nod:

[BeefStew25]

It is so sad when a player loses his job. :( I think of that happening at work and I get sad. :(

[BroncoAV06]

Yep


michaelombardi Denver traded DC ASmith to Detroit for Gronkowski and Pick

[TXBRONC]

Well Turf good call. :beer:

[Edmonton Bronco Fan]

I always liked Smith. Didn't show as well as I would have liked (or thought) in his time here, but I think he still has a future in this league. Just taking a little longer to develop than most would have hoped.

Oh well...

[Ravage!!!]

Trade him to Baltimore for a 3rd. Problem solved. /thread

Or to Detroit for a 7th round TE.....

[sanluis]

WoW!!

[BeefStew25]

Two words: RYAN LEAF.

[Buff]

Or to Detroit for a 7th round TE.....

Yeah, well, I knew we weren't getting a 3rd, but I had hopes for a 5th.

There can be no more debate, it was a god awful trade and draft pick - really really awful... But now we can move on at least.