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rcsodak
08-30-2010, 10:56 AM
Whats your take on the hit that Orton took after the non-fumble? If you think it was legal, which I don't and expect a fine, was it necessary?

Talk about it......
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Rex
08-30-2010, 10:57 AM
Whats your take on the hit that Orton took after the non-fumble? If you think it was legal, which I don't and expect a fine, was it necessary?

Talk about it......
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Why was it not legal? There is nothing that could possibly make that illegal

claymore
08-30-2010, 10:57 AM
:laugh:

Mike
08-30-2010, 11:01 AM
Legal hit. Harrison is still a piece of crap.

broncophan
08-30-2010, 11:03 AM
Whats your take on the hit that Orton took after the non-fumble? If you think it was legal, which I don't and expect a fine, was it necessary?

Talk about it......
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sure it was legal.....looked like Orton was going to try to take Harrison's legs out from underneath him.....but Harrison was having none of that and lowered the boom on Orton......nothing wrong with that......I would think Orton will have that on his mind for a while.......I do appreciate the effort by Orton.....

Northman
08-30-2010, 11:07 AM
sure it was legal.....looked like Orton was going to try to take Harrison's legs out from underneath him.....but Harrison was having none of that and lowered the boom on Orton......nothing wrong with that......I would think Orton will have that on his mind for a while.......I do appreciate the effort by Orton.....

Yep, totally legal. There's only 2 ways to handle it, either Orton doesnt try and stop him or he attempts too. He plays the game like a man and helps the team even if it means putting himself in harms way.

Nomad
08-30-2010, 11:10 AM
It was legal but I didn't like it though it is football! Orton needs to hit the weight room before he takes on people like Harrison.

Lonestar
08-30-2010, 11:16 AM
Not so sure that it WAS in two different ways Orton WAS on the ground when hit and while what I saw WAS a crappy feed by the local fox station it looked like he WAS hit in the back with his helmet.

IMO it WAS a cheap shot but then there were a lot of those last night.

I do not remember them as being cheap shot artists like OAK used to be well still are a bit. But last night IIRC they got 4-5 personal fouls.
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BroncoWave
08-30-2010, 11:17 AM
Orton and McDaniels both more or less said in their press conferences that it was a cheap shot. I'll try to pull the quotes.

silkamilkamonico
08-30-2010, 11:21 AM
Who had the cheap shot?

Orton went low and tried to take him out below the knees.

Harrison went low and tried to not be taken out at the knees.

Are we saying Orton's hit was a cheap shot?

Nomad
08-30-2010, 11:23 AM
Not so sure that it WAS in two different ways Orton WAS on the ground when hit and while what I saw WAS a crappy feed by the local fox station it looked like he WAS hit in the back with his helmet.

IMO it WAS a cheap shot but then there were a lot of those last night.

I do not remember them as being cheap shot artists like OAK used to be well still are a bit. But last night IIRC they got 4-5 personal fouls.
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Yeah, either Orton was letting up, going into the fetal position and regreting taking on Harrison or like broncophan said going for the legs! Harrison could have been protecting himself or trying to put the hurtin on Orton just because. I guess he could have hurdled over him. But it is football and Orton is a football player but I didn't like seeing Orton take on Harrison because if they would have hit square, I'm afraid Tebow would be starting week 1!!

BroncoWave
08-30-2010, 11:24 AM
Reporter: "On the hit you took you went down to get his legs, get his ankles, and he went down to meet you?"

Orton: "Yeah, he certainly did. He wasn't trying to do anything other than that, so if that's the way he wants to play then that's the way he wants to play."

It's towards the end of his interview on Broncos.com if you want to watch it.

Mike
08-30-2010, 11:26 AM
Who had the cheap shot?

Orton went low and tried to take him out below the knees.

Harrison went low and tried to not be taken out at the knees.

Are we saying Orton's hit was a cheap shot?

No, Harrison unnecessarily driving his helmet into Orton's back was a cheap shot. Legal, but totally unnecessary especially given it was a preseason game. He was definitely trying to hurt Orton, no doubt in my mind.

topscribe
08-30-2010, 11:27 AM
It was legal but I didn't like it though it is football! Orton needs to hit the weight room before he takes on people like Harrison.

Better yet, just don't take on people like Harrison. Just push him out of bounds.
That's all it would have taken. Harrison was already there.

One thing I liked about it: Orton showed he is a football player. Still didn't like
his taking the risk, though . . .

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NightTrainLayne
08-30-2010, 11:29 AM
No doubt it was a cheap shot, but a legal cheap shot. Harrison being the ball-carrier has every right to deliver a blow, just as Orton as a defender has a right to take out a ball-carrier's legs (not a cheap shot btw).

The reason it's a cheap shot is that Harrison could have gone right over Orton for another 2-3 yard gain (maybe more), but instead decided to put his helmet right into Orton's back while he had the chance.

No big deal. .. it's football and these types of things happen. Orton was too good of a target for Harrison to ignore.

Nomad
08-30-2010, 11:31 AM
Here's a second look! I suck at the youtube thing but here's the link to the hit!!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pEDzDCCvhCo

topscribe
08-30-2010, 11:32 AM
Who had the cheap shot?

Orton went low and tried to take him out below the knees.

Harrison went low and tried to not be taken out at the knees.

Are we saying Orton's hit was a cheap shot?

That's the way you tackle someone who is bigger and stronger than you. How
many times have we seen Champ tackle like that? Is Champ dirty? He has to
make the tackle and still protect himself. I don't see Randy Gradishar in either of
them . . .

-----

topscribe
08-30-2010, 11:34 AM
Here's a second look! I suck at the youtube thing but here's the link to the hit!!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pEDzDCCvhCo

Here's something else about that play, as I reviewed it: Gaffney had control of
the ball as he went down, and the ground caused the fumble. That should have
been a complete pass and no fumble, IMO . . .

-----

BroncoWave
08-30-2010, 11:35 AM
Reporter: "On the hit you took you went down to get his legs, get his ankles, and he went down to meet you?"

Orton: "Yeah, he certainly did. He wasn't trying to do anything other than that, so if that's the way he wants to play then that's the way he wants to play."

It's towards the end of his interview on Broncos.com if you want to watch it.

And here is McD's reaction:

http://blogs.denverpost.com/broncos/2010/08/30/broncos-mcdaniels-didnt-like-harrisons-hit-on-qb-kyle-orton/4832/


The Broncos are expected to ask league officials today to take a second look at the hit Steelers’ linebacker James Harrison put on Orton in the second quarter of the Broncos win over the Steelers Sunday night. Some in the organization believe Harrison should be fined for the play.

Early in the second quarter Harrison believed he was returning a fumble — the play was eventually ruled an incomplete pass — and near the Broncos sideline Orton attempted to make a low tackle. Harrison, seeing it was Orton, dove at the quarterback.

Replays showed the two may have had a helmet-to-helmet collision with Harrison’s helmet making contact with Orton’s neck as well as near the base of Orton’s helmet. Broncos head coach Josh McDaniels was not a fan of the conatact, saying after the game;

“It kind of looked like Harrison knew (Orton) was going to go low and then he would go ahead and go after the quarterback. Whether it was a cheap thing or not, I’m not sure, I’ll have to see it on film. But it did look, I don’t know, it didn’t look right.”

BroncoWave
08-30-2010, 11:36 AM
Here's something else about that play, as I reviewed it: Gaffney had control of
the ball as he went down, and the ground caused the fumble. That should have
been a complete pass and no fumble, IMO . . .

-----

You have to make a "football move" for it to be a completion. If you just catch it and immediately hit the ground and the ball pops out it's not a catch.

Denver Native (Carol)
08-30-2010, 11:36 AM
Post game last night on both local FOX, and cbs4, they referred to it as a "helmet to helmet". Guess it will be up to the NFL to determine what they feel it was or was not.

BroncoNut
08-30-2010, 11:37 AM
are you talking on the play where Orton got hit in the back as the ball carrier was goin out of bounds? No way was tha cheap. Orton turned his back, and it was completely incidental. that's just me though

topscribe
08-30-2010, 11:38 AM
You have to make a "football move" for it to be a completion. If you just catch it and immediately hit the ground and the ball pops out it's not a catch.

I guess you're right there. It was pretty close, either way, it seemed . . .

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claymore
08-30-2010, 11:40 AM
I lose alot of respect for Orton if he complains about this.

topscribe
08-30-2010, 11:41 AM
Post game last night on both local FOX, and cbs4, they referred to it as a "helmet to helmet". Guess it will be up to the NFL to determine what they feel it was or was not.

If I'm a Bronco, I tuck that away in the back of my mind, and the next time we
meet, I remember how, in a meaningless preseason game, the guy tried to take
my team's complete regular season away from us. But that's just me, I guess . . .

-----

topscribe
08-30-2010, 11:43 AM
I lose alot of respect for Orton if he complains about this.

Orton didn't really have much to say about it, only to answer the obvious
questions from the media. He first said, "I don't know whether I was hitting him,
or he was hitting me," and later followed up with, "If that's the way he wants to
play, then that's the way he wants to play, I guess," whatever that meant.

I get the impression the issue was already over for him . . .

-----

BroncoWave
08-30-2010, 11:43 AM
I lose alot of respect for Orton if he complains about this.

I posted his quote in post #12. Didn't really sound like he was complaining, but it did sound like he was implying it may not have been the cleanest shot.

Rex
08-30-2010, 11:48 AM
Not so sure that it WAS in two different ways Orton WAS on the ground when hit and while what I saw WAS a crappy feed by the local fox station it looked like he WAS hit in the back with his helmet.

IMO it WAS a cheap shot but then there were a lot of those last night.

I do not remember them as being cheap shot artists like OAK used to be well still are a bit. But last night IIRC they got 4-5 personal fouls.
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Orton was the DEFENDER. It doesnt matter if he was on the ground and it doesnt matter how he was hit.

Cheap? Yeah. Illegal. No.

Northman
08-30-2010, 11:49 AM
No doubt it was a cheap shot, but a legal cheap shot. Harrison being the ball-carrier has every right to deliver a blow, just as Orton as a defender has a right to take out a ball-carrier's legs (not a cheap shot btw).



Yep.

silkamilkamonico
08-30-2010, 12:05 PM
No, Harrison unnecessarily driving his helmet into Orton's back was a cheap shot. Legal, but totally unnecessary especially given it was a preseason game. He was definitely trying to hurt Orton, no doubt in my mind.


That's the way you tackle someone who is bigger and stronger than you. How
many times have we seen Champ tackle like that? Is Champ dirty? He has to
make the tackle and still protect himself. I don't see Randy Gradishar in either of
them . . .


It's undoubtedly a matter of perception. If the roles were reversed, there isn't one Denver fan who would say it was a cheap shot. Orton didn't need to go after his knees, he could have simply pushed him out of bounds. As for Harrison, he probably saw Orton going after his knees, and acknowledging it was a QB wanted to get a legal hit in. Big deal.

It was a legal hit, and nothing about it was "cheap" by any means.

silkamilkamonico
08-30-2010, 12:06 PM
Also, Champ doesn't go below the knees like Orton did. People get hurt like that. Champ goes below the waste and takes the legs out. Big big difference between the two, IMHO.

Elevation inc
08-30-2010, 12:07 PM
Whats your take on the hit that Orton took after the non-fumble? If you think it was legal, which I don't and expect a fine, was it necessary?

Talk about it......
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orton went in for the tackle he was fair game.....it was dirty, but still fair and legal......

silkamilkamonico
08-30-2010, 12:08 PM
LMAO

I've just watched that replay like 5 times. How is that a cheap shot by Harrison? What's he suuposed to do, let a defender take him out below the knees?

arapaho2
08-30-2010, 12:08 PM
Whats your take on the hit that Orton took after the non-fumble? If you think it was legal, which I don't and expect a fine, was it necessary?

Talk about it......
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legal...yes
fine...no
cheap...depends..on what you call cheap...
unneeded..yes

dogfish
08-30-2010, 12:09 PM
James Harrison say Kyle Orton "got what he had coming"
Posted by Mike Florio on August 30, 2010 1:04 PM ET

When a bank robber gets away with the money, the last thing he should do is call the bank the next day, identify himself, and say, "You're damn right I took the money."

A similar concept applies when a football player apparently gets away with a fairly blatant case of unnecessary roughness.

After recovering a fumble, which eventually was ruled not a fumble, in Sunday night's game between the Steelers and the Broncos, linebacker James Harrison encountered Broncos quarterback Kyle Orton. Orton, not cognizant of the line between bravery and lunacy, tried to tackle Harrison. So Harrison unloaded on Orton. Hard.

"He was running his mouth and getting in the way of the train," Harrison said after the game, per Mike Klis of the Denver Post. "And the train wasn't coming off the track."

If Harrison had said nothing more, we think he'd be fine. It was a rough play, but no one told Orton to get in the way of the train. But then Harrison added a sentence or two that creates the impression that he was trying to injure Orton.

"He was popping off down there the first time they were about to score," Harrison said. "So you run your mouth, expect to get something. Everything's between the lines, so he got what he had coming."

Even though Orton wasn't throwing the ball or otherwise within the protections that apply to quarterbacks, the rules prevent specific instances of unnecessary roughness. Despite the fact that no flag was thrown, Harrison's word could be enough to trigger a letter from the league office informing him that he's getting what he has coming, as in money coming out of his check.

http://football.about.com/gi/dynamic/offsite.htm?zi=1/XJ&sdn=football&zu=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.profootballtalk.com%2Frumormil l.htm

BroncoWave
08-30-2010, 12:13 PM
Well that should answer any questions to those in here trying to claim there was nothing cheap or intentional about it.

silkamilkamonico
08-30-2010, 12:16 PM
Well that should answer any questions to those in here trying to claim there was nothing cheap or intentional about it.

Yea that really cleared everything up, when he said he wanted to give him a pop at the end of the play when he saw him. Apparently now football's come to a point where hard hits = unnecessary roughness.

Elevation inc
08-30-2010, 12:16 PM
James Harrison say Kyle Orton "got what he had coming"
Posted by Mike Florio on August 30, 2010 1:04 PM ET

When a bank robber gets away with the money, the last thing he should do is call the bank the next day, identify himself, and say, "You're damn right I took the money."

A similar concept applies when a football player apparently gets away with a fairly blatant case of unnecessary roughness.

After recovering a fumble, which eventually was ruled not a fumble, in Sunday night's game between the Steelers and the Broncos, linebacker James Harrison encountered Broncos quarterback Kyle Orton. Orton, not cognizant of the line between bravery and lunacy, tried to tackle Harrison. So Harrison unloaded on Orton. Hard.

"He was running his mouth and getting in the way of the train," Harrison said after the game, per Mike Klis of the Denver Post. "And the train wasn't coming off the track."

If Harrison had said nothing more, we think he'd be fine. It was a rough play, but no one told Orton to get in the way of the train. But then Harrison added a sentence or two that creates the impression that he was trying to injure Orton.



"He was popping off down there the first time they were about to score," Harrison said. "So you run your mouth, expect to get something. Everything's between the lines, so he got what he had coming."

Even though Orton wasn't throwing the ball or otherwise within the protections that apply to quarterbacks, the rules prevent specific instances of unnecessary roughness. Despite the fact that no flag was thrown, Harrison's word could be enough to trigger a letter from the league office informing him that he's getting what he has coming, as in money coming out of his check.

http://football.about.com/gi/dynamic/offsite.htm?zi=1/XJ&sdn=football&zu=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.profootballtalk.com%2Frumormil l.htm




lol funny stuff......got whats coming to him? last i checked kyle came back in a play later and we smashed pitt 34-17....so maybe harrison needs to go back to the gym or work on becoming a man again because he obviously didnt give kyle what he had coming.....kyle popping off at the mouth..hilarious....nice try harrison way to try and PR spin your way out of the limelight...lol....

NightTrainLayne
08-30-2010, 12:17 PM
James Harrison say Kyle Orton "got what he had coming"
Posted by Mike Florio on August 30, 2010 1:04 PM ET

When a bank robber gets away with the money, the last thing he should do is call the bank the next day, identify himself, and say, "You're damn right I took the money."

A similar concept applies when a football player apparently gets away with a fairly blatant case of unnecessary roughness.

After recovering a fumble, which eventually was ruled not a fumble, in Sunday night's game between the Steelers and the Broncos, linebacker James Harrison encountered Broncos quarterback Kyle Orton. Orton, not cognizant of the line between bravery and lunacy, tried to tackle Harrison. So Harrison unloaded on Orton. Hard.

"He was running his mouth and getting in the way of the train," Harrison said after the game, per Mike Klis of the Denver Post. "And the train wasn't coming off the track."

If Harrison had said nothing more, we think he'd be fine. It was a rough play, but no one told Orton to get in the way of the train. But then Harrison added a sentence or two that creates the impression that he was trying to injure Orton.

"He was popping off down there the first time they were about to score," Harrison said. "So you run your mouth, expect to get something. Everything's between the lines, so he got what he had coming."

Even though Orton wasn't throwing the ball or otherwise within the protections that apply to quarterbacks, the rules prevent specific instances of unnecessary roughness. Despite the fact that no flag was thrown, Harrison's word could be enough to trigger a letter from the league office informing him that he's getting what he has coming, as in money coming out of his check.

http://football.about.com/gi/dynamic/offsite.htm?zi=1/XJ&sdn=football&zu=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.profootballtalk.com%2Frumormil l.htm

I'd say that's a "Guilty" plea to cheap shot in the 1st degree.

Still legal though.

On another note, his accusation of Orton running his mouth is interesting. . . seems totally out of character for Orton, but I don't know the guy personally.

Elevation inc
08-30-2010, 12:18 PM
Well that should answer any questions to those in here trying to claim there was nothing cheap or intentional about it.

actually i think many feel it was kinda dirty, but still perfectly legal.....if that was a OL player or RB or WR going for the tackle, we wouldnt be having this conversation at all....

BroncoWave
08-30-2010, 12:18 PM
Yea that really cleared everything up, when he said he wanted to give him a pop at the end of the play when he saw him. Apparently now football's come to a point where hard hits = unnecessary roughness.

He admitted himself that it was an unnecessary hit. What else is there to discuss?

BroncoWave
08-30-2010, 12:19 PM
actually i think many feel it was kinda dirty, but still perfectly legal.....if that was a OL player or RB or WR going for the tackle, we wouldnt be having this conversation at all....

Never said it was illegal. Just cheap and unnecessary.

Elevation inc
08-30-2010, 12:20 PM
I'd say that's a "Guilty" plea to cheap shot in the 1st degree.

Still legal though.

On another note, his accusation of Orton running his mouth is interesting. . . seems totally out of character for Orton, but I don't know the guy personally.

personally i hope kyle was popping off at the mouth a bit....:lol:

broncophan
08-30-2010, 12:21 PM
Well that should answer any questions to those in here trying to claim there was nothing cheap or intentional about it.

Yea.....that kinds of changes things.....I think this just may turn into a racial thing now......I bet if Orton was black Harrison would not have hit him....just sayin'

silkamilkamonico
08-30-2010, 12:21 PM
He admitted himself that it was an unnecessary hit. What else is there to discuss?

No, he didn't. Mike Florio is insinuating that.

BroncoWave
08-30-2010, 12:21 PM
personally i hope kyle was popping off at the mouth a bit....:lol:

I just hope that none of our fans hypocritically praise Orton while bashing Rivers for doing the same thing.

NightTrainLayne
08-30-2010, 12:24 PM
personally i hope kyle was popping off at the mouth a bit....:lol:

I agree! It shows he has some confidence in our offense, and his ability to run it. Just surprises me.

BroncoWave
08-30-2010, 12:24 PM
No, he didn't. Mike Florio is insinuating that.

If that hit was a natural part of the play, Harrison would have had no reason to comment on it. The fact that he commented the way he did insinuates that he was trying to go out of his way to put more on Orton than was necessary. Hence the fact that he admitted to an unnecessary hit.

topscribe
08-30-2010, 12:25 PM
I just hope that none of out fans hypocritically praise Orton while bashing Rivers for doing the same thing.

Harrison said he was. Orton said he wasn't. I believe Orton, first because I think
he has a lot more class than Harrison altogether, and second because it doesn't
sound like Orton at all.

And Rivers is still a douchebag . . .

-----

BroncoWave
08-30-2010, 12:27 PM
Harrison said he was. Orton said he wasn't. I believe Orton, first because I think
he has a lot more class than Harrison altogether, and second because it doesn't
sound like Orton at all . . .

-----

Where did Orton deny talking crap to Harrison? Not saying you're wrong, I just missed that quote from him.

Regardless, I'm not sure what motivation Harrison would have to just make that up out of thin air.

topscribe
08-30-2010, 12:30 PM
Where did Orton deny talking crap to Harrison? Not saying you're wrong, I just missed that quote from him.

Regardless, I'm not sure what motivation Harrison would have to just make that up out of thin air.

Why wouldn't Harrison try to justify his actions? What motivation would Orton
have to deny it? Orton did say he had a few things to say afterward, but not
before, as Harrison claimed.

I don't recall off the top right now where I read it - maybe one of the articles in
the DP?

-----

silkamilkamonico
08-30-2010, 12:30 PM
If that hit was a natural part of the play, Harrison would have had no reason to comment on it. The fact that he commented the way he did insinuates that he was trying to go out of his way to put more on Orton than was necessary. Hence the fact that he admitted to an unnecessary hit.

All he said was "Orton had what was coming to him".

Had what exactly?

The big hit that resulted a Orton's stinger?
A cheap shot like people are insinuating that resulted in a stinger?
Poor tackling form that resulted in a stinger?

He didn't even clarify what he had coming to him. You are simply trying to fill in the blank.

BigDaddyBronco
08-30-2010, 12:33 PM
No doubt it was a cheap shot, but a legal cheap shot. Harrison being the ball-carrier has every right to deliver a blow, just as Orton as a defender has a right to take out a ball-carrier's legs (not a cheap shot btw).

The reason it's a cheap shot is that Harrison could have gone right over Orton for another 2-3 yard gain (maybe more), but instead decided to put his helmet right into Orton's back while he had the chance.

No big deal. .. it's football and these types of things happen. Orton was too good of a target for Harrison to ignore.

I was still wanting someone to cut-block or crack-back Harrison. He was a hot head all game.

Total POS.

BroncoWave
08-30-2010, 12:33 PM
Why wouldn't Harrison try to justify his actions? What motivation would Orton
have to deny it? Orton did say he had a few things to say afterward, but not
before, as Harrison claimed.

I don't recall off the top right now where I read it - maybe one of the articles in
the DP?

-----

I don't really see why Harrison felt the need to comment like that at all. He could have just said it was a natural part of the play or something and left it at that.

Based on his quote, I have to think Orton did something to provoke him (although Harrison probably started it). And I don't even think that's a bad thing. Orton's a pro football player. Pro football players talk trash from time to time. If Orton did it, good for him. Shows he has some fire in him.

NightTrainLayne
08-30-2010, 12:33 PM
All he said was "Orton had what was coming to him".

Had what exactly?

The big hit that resulted a Orton's stinger?
A cheap shot like people are insinuating that resulted in a stinger?
Poor tackling form that resulted in a stinger?

He didn't even clarify what he had coming to him. You are simply trying to fill in the blank.

If that was Zane Beadles hitting the deck in front of him does Harrison spear him too? Or does he jump over him for another 2-3 yards? Who knows, but spearing the guy on the ground is a cheap shot whoever it is imo.

Players in the NFL dive like that to "tackle" all the time. It's pretty common. But what's uncommon is for the ball-carrier to ignore the potential for additional yardage and spear the guy head-first. That's why folks are labelling it a cheap shot. However, still a legal hit most likely.

BroncoWave
08-30-2010, 12:35 PM
All he said was "Orton had what was coming to him".

Had what exactly?

The big hit that resulted a Orton's stinger?
A cheap shot like people are insinuating that resulted in a stinger?
Poor tackling form that resulted in a stinger?

He didn't even clarify what he had coming to him. You are simply trying to fill in the blank.

What else could he possibly have meant then? It doesn't take a rocket scientist to fill in that blank.

silkamilkamonico
08-30-2010, 12:39 PM
If that was Zane Beadles hitting the deck in front of him does Harrison spear him too? Or does he jump over him for another 2-3 yards? Who knows, but spearing the guy on the ground is a cheap shot whoever it is imo.

Players in the NFL dive like that to "tackle" all the time. It's pretty common. But what's uncommon is for the ball-carrier to ignore the potential for additional yardage and spear the guy head-first. That's why folks are labelling it a cheap shot. However, still a legal hit most likely.

IMHO he wasn't trying to spear him. He was trying to get low to deliver a blow. It wasn't his fault that Orton's 1)technique was incredibly bad 2) was trying to take him out below the knee.

It's just a matter of perception, like I have said before.

silkamilkamonico
08-30-2010, 12:41 PM
What else could he possibly have meant then? It doesn't take a rocket scientist to fill in that blank.

Seriously? So you are just going to assume? Perhaps the question asked to him (which hasn't even been acknowledged) was "What do you think about Orton's stinger after the fumble". You don't even know what question he was responding too.

I think Orton was trying to get a cheap shot in, because he could have just pushed Harrison out of bounds, like Tebow did later in the game. Instead he goes after his knees. Funny how you aren't mentioning that.

Mike
08-30-2010, 12:44 PM
I think Orton was trying to get a cheap shot in, because he could have just pushed Harrison out of bounds, like Tebow did later in the game. Instead he goes after his knees. Funny how you aren't mentioning that.

No offense silk, but this comment is insanely idiotic.

Lonestar
08-30-2010, 12:45 PM
Harrison said he was. Orton said he wasn't. I believe Orton, first because I think
he has a lot more class than Harrison altogether, and second because it doesn't
sound like Orton at all.

And Rivers is still a douchebag . . .

-----

but a good QB, I can only hope any or all three of our guys becomes as good as he is.

topscribe
08-30-2010, 12:46 PM
I don't really see why Harrison felt the need to comment like that at all. He could have just said it was a natural part of the play or something and left it at that.

Based on his quote, I have to think Orton did something to provoke him (although Harrison probably started it). And I don't even think that's a bad thing. Orton's a pro football player. Pro football players talk trash from time to time. If Orton did it, good for him. Shows he has some fire in him.

Then you do not know Harrison very well. But believe what you want. I am just
going by the respective characters. When it comes to class, I don't believe
Harrison makes a wart on Orton's butt. If all I have is he said, he said, I will
believe Orton.

And Orton did say he said some things after the incident, when he came back
on the field.

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GEM
08-30-2010, 12:46 PM
I lose alot of respect for Orton if he complains about this.

No loss there...you don't have much for him to begin with. :lol:

LTC Pain
08-30-2010, 12:46 PM
No offense silk, but this comment is insanely idiotic.

Quad!

GEM
08-30-2010, 12:48 PM
James Harrison say Kyle Orton "got what he had coming"
Posted by Mike Florio on August 30, 2010 1:04 PM ET

When a bank robber gets away with the money, the last thing he should do is call the bank the next day, identify himself, and say, "You're damn right I took the money."

A similar concept applies when a football player apparently gets away with a fairly blatant case of unnecessary roughness.

After recovering a fumble, which eventually was ruled not a fumble, in Sunday night's game between the Steelers and the Broncos, linebacker James Harrison encountered Broncos quarterback Kyle Orton. Orton, not cognizant of the line between bravery and lunacy, tried to tackle Harrison. So Harrison unloaded on Orton. Hard.

"He was running his mouth and getting in the way of the train," Harrison said after the game, per Mike Klis of the Denver Post. "And the train wasn't coming off the track."

If Harrison had said nothing more, we think he'd be fine. It was a rough play, but no one told Orton to get in the way of the train. But then Harrison added a sentence or two that creates the impression that he was trying to injure Orton.

"He was popping off down there the first time they were about to score," Harrison said. "So you run your mouth, expect to get something. Everything's between the lines, so he got what he had coming."

Even though Orton wasn't throwing the ball or otherwise within the protections that apply to quarterbacks, the rules prevent specific instances of unnecessary roughness. Despite the fact that no flag was thrown, Harrison's word could be enough to trigger a letter from the league office informing him that he's getting what he has coming, as in money coming out of his check.

http://football.about.com/gi/dynamic/offsite.htm?zi=1/XJ&sdn=football&zu=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.profootballtalk.com%2Frumormil l.htm

Hey Harrison....you let a QB stop you from a pick 6. **** already.

BroncoWave
08-30-2010, 12:54 PM
Seriously? So you are just going to assume? Perhaps the question asked to him (which hasn't even been acknowledged) was "What do you think about Orton's stinger after the fumble". You don't even know what question he was responding too.

Come on man, that's freaking weaksauce. I know you are trying to look like an objective fan and not be a homer but come on, use some common sense here. You're just trying not to see what he meant if you really believe any of that crap.


I think Orton was trying to get a cheap shot in, because he could have just pushed Harrison out of bounds, like Tebow did later in the game. Instead he goes after his knees. Funny how you aren't mentioning that.

If you've ever played football and tried to tackle a guy that has WAY more size and speed than you you'd know how retarded that statement is.

topscribe
08-30-2010, 12:58 PM
Hey Harrison....you let a QB stop you from a pick 6. **** already.

Here it is, what Orton was represented as to have said:


Orton told a different timeline. He said he didn't say anything derogatory to Harrison until after they met.
"Yeah, I said something after he hit me," Orton said.

http://www.denverpost.com/broncos/ci_15934273

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silkamilkamonico
08-30-2010, 01:01 PM
No offense silk, but this comment is insanely idiotic.

It's about as ridiculous as saying you can't hit a QB hard when he's trying to make a tackle that is right at the sideline. No offense.

Be honest, insert DJ Williams and Philip Rivers, and there isn't one Denver fan saying that is a cheap shot. They are crying that Rivers is taking him out below the knees instead of pushing him out of bounds, and deserved the hit. I guarantee you that.

BroncoWave
08-30-2010, 01:03 PM
It's about as ridiculous as saying you can't hit a QB hard when he's trying to make a tackle that is right at the sideline. No offense.

Be honest, insert DJ Williams and Philip Rivers, and there isn't one Denver fan saying that is a cheap shot. They are crying that Rivers is taking him out below the knees instead of pushing him out of bounds, and deserved the hit. I guarantee you that.

No one is saying you CAN'T do it, we are just saying that it's cheap and unnecessary. Surely you can see the difference.

silkamilkamonico
08-30-2010, 01:04 PM
Come on man, that's freaking weaksauce. I know you are trying to look like an objective fan and not be a homer but come on, use some common sense here. You're just trying not to see what he meant if you really believe any of that crap.

I don't understand how people are saying it's a cheap shot because he lowered his shoulder and delivered the boom to a guy who just happened to be a QB. You can't do that in football?




If you've ever played football and tried to tackle a guy that has WAY more size and speed than you you'd know how retarded that statement is.

I have, and normally I just push them out of bounds in that case. After all, the collision took place on the out of bounds marker.

NightTrainLayne
08-30-2010, 01:05 PM
It's about as ridiculous as saying you can't hit a QB hard when he's trying to make a tackle that is right at the sideline. No offense.

Be honest, insert DJ Williams and Philip Rivers, and there isn't one Denver fan saying that is a cheap shot. They are crying that Rivers is taking him out below the knees instead of pushing him out of bounds, and deserved the hit. I guarantee you that.

I'd still call it a cheap but legal shot. In fact, I wish DJ had some of that in him. Like Romo, as long as he's on your team you love him for the cheap shots. ;)

topscribe
08-30-2010, 01:07 PM
It's about as ridiculous as saying you can't hit a QB hard when he's trying to make a tackle that is right at the sideline. No offense.

Be honest, insert DJ Williams and Philip Rivers, and there isn't one Denver fan saying that is a cheap shot. They are crying that Rivers is taking him out below the knees instead of pushing him out of bounds, and deserved the hit. I guarantee you that.

I think I get your point. We've had our share: Lynch, Atwater, Dennis Smith,
Wilson, Romanowski - shoot, I used to get a big kick out of hits clear back in
the last millennium, when Dave Costa, Rich Jackson, and Wahoo McDaniels
were delivering them.

I mentioned I have little respect for Harrison. But as far as the hit: football is
football. Either play it, or join a chess club or something. My point is, Orton
should not have been there. He is a football player at heart, but he should
have been a QB in that instance and just pushed Harrison out of bounds, IMO.

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BroncoWave
08-30-2010, 01:07 PM
I don't understand how people are saying it's a cheap shot because he lowered his shoulder and delivered the boom to a guy who just happened to be a QB. You can't do that in football?

It was a completely pointless thing to do. He could have simply hurdled him or gone out of bounds. There was no reason to do what he did unless he was trying to deliver a cheap shot.

And I just saw the replay and it wasn't just leading with the shoulder. He led with his helmet and speared him helmet to helmet. Sorry but like I said, if you don't see what he was trying to do then you are just TRYING not to see it.

Nomad
08-30-2010, 01:08 PM
I'd still call it a cheap but legal shot. In fact, I wish DJ had some of that in him. Like Romo, as long as he's on your team you love him for the cheap shots. ;)

Yeah, I can't remember all the hits by Romo but I bet he had some cheap shots on QBs.

Reading at BM, someone is trying to say or ask the question if Walton intentionally hurt Farrior!:lol:

Elevation inc
08-30-2010, 01:09 PM
It was a completely pointless thing to do. He could have simply hurdled him or gone out of bounds. There was no reason to do what he did unless he was trying to deliver a cheap shot.

And I just saw the replay and it wasn't just leading with the shoulder. He led with his helmet and speared him helmet to helmet. Sorry but like I said, if you don't see what he was trying to do then you are just TRYING not to see it.

lol dude come off it a opposing qb coming for your kness as a defensive player you make that hit period, its been ingrained in them since they were kids to make that contact and bring the pain.....this aint pewee.....orton took a risk it backfired, did harrison put a little extra on??? yes, but it was legal period....

and silk is right had it been Dj vs rivers, everyone would be talking DJ up like heck yeah so cool........or if it was brandon lloyd, eddie royal or lance ball that got hit, no one would care....

props to kyle for being brave, but it backfired...life moves on....

topscribe
08-30-2010, 01:11 PM
Yeah, I can't remember all the hits by Romo but I bet he had some cheap shots on QBs.

Reading at BM, someone is trying to say or ask the question if Walton intentionally hurt Farrior!:lol:

Incredible. :tsk:

As it turned out, Simms pointed out that White had blood on his knee after the
play. It might not have been Walton, after all . . .

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BroncoWave
08-30-2010, 01:12 PM
lol dude come off it a opposing qb coming for your kness as a defensive player you make that hit period, its been ingrained in them since they were kids to make that contact and bring the pain.....this aint pewee.....orton took a risk it backfired, did harrison put a little extra on??? yes, but it was legal period....

and silk is right had it been Dj vs rivers, everyone would be talking DJ up like heck yeah so cool........or if it was brandon lloyd, eddie royal or lance ball that got hit, no one would care....

props to kyle for being brave, but it backfired...life moves on....

Wouldn't it make more sense to try to hurdle him and gain more yards? But no, that would involve putting the team ahead of some petty spat with Orton.

Northman
08-30-2010, 01:13 PM
Yea that really cleared everything up, when he said he wanted to give him a pop at the end of the play when he saw him. Apparently now football's come to a point where hard hits = unnecessary roughness.

Wow, some Bronco fans have become serious pussies. Sorry it had to be said. We've had big hitters like Atwater, Smith, and Lynch who have all been on "illegal" hits yet defended night and day. Here is a case where the QB tried to make a tackle on a guy with the ball and the defender saw the QB and took a shot at him as most would do anyway. Wow, wake up you ******* retards. :lol:

BroncoWave
08-30-2010, 01:15 PM
Wow, some Bronco fans have become serious pussies. Sorry it had to be said. We've had big hitters like Atwater, Smith, and Lynch who have all been on "illegal" hits yet defended night and day. Here is a case where the QB tried to make a tackle on a guy with the ball and the defender saw the QB and took a shot at him as most would do anyway. Wow, wake up you ******* retards. :lol:

Whatever. He led with his helmet and aimed for Orton's helmet. If thinking that's a bit cheap makes me a PY then so be it.

I never said that it was illegal or that I even have that big a problem with it, just calling it like I see it.

Northman
08-30-2010, 01:16 PM
I think I get your point. We've had our share: Lynch, Atwater, Dennis Smith,
Wilson, Romanowski - shoot, I used to get a big kick out of hits clear back in
the last millennium, when Dave Costa, Rich Jackson, and Wahoo McDaniels
were delivering them.

I mentioned I have little respect for Harrison. But as far as the hit: football is
football. Either play it, or join a chess club or something. My point is, Orton
should not have been there. He is a football player at heart, but he should
have been a QB in that instance and just pushed Harrison out of bounds, IMO.

-----

Thank You! Someone with some common sense.

rcsodak
08-30-2010, 01:17 PM
Here's something else about that play, as I reviewed it: Gaffney had control of
the ball as he went down, and the ground caused the fumble. That should have
been a complete pass and no fumble, IMO . . .

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well, the ground cant cause a fumble, but didnt gaf have to make a 'football move' or show he had control?
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Northman
08-30-2010, 01:18 PM
Yeah, I can't remember all the hits by Romo but I bet he had some cheap shots on QBs.

Reading at BM, someone is trying to say or ask the question if Walton intentionally hurt Farrior!:lol:

Its a fair question. The dude's helmet popped off and Walton is known to be a bruiser on the Oline. However, its football and i hold no ill will against Walton just like i dont against Harrison. Its ******* football.

topscribe
08-30-2010, 01:21 PM
well, the ground cant cause a fumble, but didnt gaf have to make a 'football move' or show he had control?
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Well, upon reviewing the play, I inferred that Gaffney did have control as he
went down. But, as BTB mentioned, he had not made a "football move" before
then. If that is a rule, it is a stupid one - if the receiver is sitting on the ground
and makes the catch, it is a reception, right? So why does he have to make a
"football move" if he has control as he goes down? But the rules are the rules.
It is what it is . . .

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rcsodak
08-30-2010, 01:21 PM
I lose alot of respect for Orton if he complains about this.
LMAOA! I'm sure he's gonna lose sleep over that thought, clay. :lol:
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Mike
08-30-2010, 01:26 PM
It's about as ridiculous as saying you can't hit a QB hard when he's trying to make a tackle that is right at the sideline. No offense.

Be honest, insert DJ Williams and Philip Rivers, and there isn't one Denver fan saying that is a cheap shot. They are crying that Rivers is taking him out below the knees instead of pushing him out of bounds, and deserved the hit. I guarantee you that.

Hard hitting is one thing, deliberately playing dirty is another. I have never hesitated to call Bronco players on dirty hits and if DJ did it I would still say it was dirty.

rcsodak
08-30-2010, 01:27 PM
lol funny stuff......got whats coming to him? last i checked kyle came back in a play later and we smashed pitt 34-17....so maybe harrison needs to go back to the gym or work on becoming a man again because he obviously didnt give kyle what he had coming.....kyle popping off at the mouth..hilarious....nice try harrison way to try and PR spin your way out of the limelight...lol....
That was my perception. Orton? Popping off? WTH!? LOL
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shank
08-30-2010, 01:28 PM
Hard hitting is one thing, deliberately playing dirty is another. I have never hesitated to call Bronco players on dirty hits and if DJ did it I would still say it was dirty.

+1. harrison is a dirty player. dirty doesn't always equal illegal. it was a cheap shot, no doubt. i don't like it, and i wouldn't like it if one of our players did it. there is a huge difference between a hard hit and a cheap shot.

topscribe
08-30-2010, 01:31 PM
That was my perception. Orton? Popping off? WTH!? LOL
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As I mentioned, Orton said it was after that hit he said some things. And who
wouldn't, who had any gravel in his gut? Did you see what Harrison did after the
hit? He stood over Orton, still jawing at him. Actually, it was that part that
bothered me most. Harrison didn't appear to give a rat's ass as to how hurt
Orton might have been . . .

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topscribe
08-30-2010, 01:35 PM
Hard hitting is one thing, deliberately playing dirty is another. I have never hesitated to call Bronco players on dirty hits and if DJ did it I would still say it was dirty.


+1. harrison is a dirty player. dirty doesn't always equal illegal. it was a cheap shot, no doubt. i don't like it, and i wouldn't like it if one of our players did it. there is a huge difference between a hard hit and a cheap shot.

Very good points. Unnecessary violence is just that, no matter what colors they
are wearing. However, the hit in question, I believe, was borderline in that way,
it appeared as it was happening, although, as I implied, Harrison might have
tipped his hand as to his intentions by what he did following the hit . . .

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shank
08-30-2010, 01:37 PM
i have no problem with players hitting to hurt. harrison was hitting to injure. and it's not an isolated incident, he's a total douche.

Elevation inc
08-30-2010, 01:37 PM
Wouldn't it make more sense to try to hurdle him and gain more yards? But no, that would involve putting the team ahead of some petty spat with Orton.

lol you must have never played defense before:lol:....a opposing teams qb is arch enemy #1 which is why they are so protected....if they give you that chance because of poor form or common sense you make them pay, standing over him and jawing afterwards is classless, but the hit itself well, its f'in football.......

i mean thats like telling a RB to move around a LB so he doesnt get hit....since it could be easier and net you a few more yards, tough players more often than not go down hill to the contact rather than around and thats exactly what harrison did.....

rcsodak
08-30-2010, 01:38 PM
Seriously? So you are just going to assume? Perhaps the question asked to him (which hasn't even been acknowledged) was "What do you think about Orton's stinger after the fumble". You don't even know what question he was responding too.

I think Orton was trying to get a cheap shot in, because he could have just pushed Harrison out of bounds, like Tebow did later in the game. Instead he goes after his knees. Funny how you aren't mentioning that.
Quit with the absurdity. He stays hi, harrison levels him and we already have 1 qb with sore ribs...or worse. And he wasnt 'going for his knees'. He was AHEAD of the play. Far enough ahead for harrison to see him coming and decide his plan of attack.
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Elevation inc
08-30-2010, 01:39 PM
i have no problem with players hitting to hurt. harrison was hitting to injure. and it's not an isolated incident, he's a total douche.

this has been around football for 40 years......harrison...he is a douche, but orton stuck himself out there, he was fair game.....

weazel
08-30-2010, 01:40 PM
it's football... guys get hit.

topscribe
08-30-2010, 01:42 PM
this has been around football for 40 years......harrison...he is a douche, but orton stuck himself out there, he was fair game.....

Exactly . . . for Harrison, that was just another classless act in a classless career.

From Orton's perspective, Orton has only himself to blame. He has to understand
he is a QB and can't be playing like a linebacker . . .

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claymore
08-30-2010, 01:43 PM
Quit with the absurdity. He stays hi, harrison levels him and we already have 1 qb with sore ribs...or worse. And he wasnt 'going for his knees'. He was AHEAD of the play. Far enough ahead for harrison to see him coming and decide his plan of attack.
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:laugh:

shank
08-30-2010, 01:45 PM
this has been around football for 40 years......harrison...he is a douche, but orton stuck himself out there, he was fair game.....

i'm not crying about it, but i don't condone it. again, there's hitting to hurt and hitting to injure.

orton's approach wasn't textbook form, but he was trying to tackle the way a players supposed to when they are at a weight disadvantage. he was doing everything he could to minimize his risk, so harrison speared him. i'm not crying for orton, or saying that these things don't happen... i'm saying that they happen when douches do them.

Northman
08-30-2010, 01:46 PM
it's football... guys get hit.

There's no crying in football.

topscribe
08-30-2010, 01:47 PM
Just think, over the last couple weeks, how close the Broncos have come to
being down to only Brady Quinn for a QB . . . :shocked:

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Northman
08-30-2010, 01:48 PM
Just think how, over the last couple weeks, how close the Broncos have come
to being down to only Brady Quinn for a QB . . . :shocked:

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What? You wouldnt smell championship in that senario? :lol:

topscribe
08-30-2010, 01:50 PM
What? You wouldnt smell championship in that senario? :lol:

I might be all excited over our top 10 pick in the next draft . . .

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shank
08-30-2010, 01:50 PM
What? You wouldnt smell championship in that senario? :lol:

all i could smell was quinn's finger. and the smell wasn't good.

Mike
08-30-2010, 01:51 PM
What? You wouldnt smell championship in that senario? :lol:

After drafting #1 in next years draft. Possibly. ;)

topscribe
08-30-2010, 01:51 PM
all i could smell was quinn's finger. and the smell wasn't good.
.


:shocked:



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BroncoWave
08-30-2010, 01:52 PM
What? You wouldnt smell championship in that senario? :lol:

I might have had to take a year off from watching the Broncos if Brady Quinn was our only QB entering the season. I don't know if I could have subjected myself to that for 16 weeks.

Bosco
08-30-2010, 01:53 PM
You could make the case that it violates the unwritten "preseason etiquette" rule, but that's about it.

topscribe
08-30-2010, 01:54 PM
I might have had to take a year off from watching the Broncos if Brady Quinn was our only QB entering the season. I don't know if I could have subjected myself to that for 16 weeks.

Oh, I would enjoy it.

I also like to cut myself with broken glass and touch hot irons to my tongue . . .

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Northman
08-30-2010, 01:54 PM
I might have had to take a year off from watching the Broncos if Brady Quinn was our only QB entering the season. I don't know if I could have subjected myself to that for 16 weeks.

Hah! The **** you would buddy. If i would have had to suffer watching so would you. Even if i had to drive down to where you were and force you. ;)

BroncoWave
08-30-2010, 01:55 PM
Hah! The **** you would buddy. If i would have had to suffer watching so would you. Even if i had to drive down to where you were and force you. ;)

:lol: Oh I'm sure I would have wound up forcing myself to watch. My alcohol intake would have risen sufficiently though!

Lonestar
08-30-2010, 02:01 PM
It was a completely pointless thing to do. He could have simply hurdled him or gone out of bounds. There was no reason to do what he did unless he was trying to deliver a cheap shot.

And I just saw the replay and it wasn't just leading with the shoulder. He led with his helmet and speared him helmet to helmet. Sorry but like I said, if you don't see what he was trying to do then you are just TRYING not to see it.

That is what I thought I saw in my choppy local fox broadcast.

I guess I will wit to see if Goodell sends him a little thank you for your donation letter before gloating about it being a illegal hit.

rcsodak
08-30-2010, 02:02 PM
Oh, I would enjoy it.

I also like to cut myself with broken glass and touch hot irons to my tongue . . .

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Top into S&M? Whodathunkit!?
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The Glue Factory
08-30-2010, 02:08 PM
legal...yes
fine...no
cheap...depends..on what you call cheap...
unneeded..yes

Totally! If ref's had ruled it properly as an incomplete pass neither player would have been in the position they were in.

Nomad
08-30-2010, 02:16 PM
That is what I thought I saw in my choppy local fox broadcast.

I guess I will wit to see if Goodell sends him a little thank you for your donation letter before gloating about it being a illegal hit.

I doubt the initial hit would have got him a fine but some believe his words to the press may because of what he said and seems the intention was to hurt at least reading different articles about it, the writers seem to think that.

Zweems56
08-30-2010, 02:16 PM
Yes it was a cheap shot.. for the sole reason that Harrison could have easily hurdled Orton and continued running. Instead, he chose to dive helmet first into the dude's spine.

frenchfan
08-30-2010, 02:22 PM
If I'm a Bronco, I tuck that away in the back of my mind, and the next time we
meet, I remember how, in a meaningless preseason game, the guy tried to take
my team's complete regular season away from us. But that's just me, I guess . . .

-----If I was a Bronco and on the field, I wouldn't complain... I would just give Harri-son of a b.... his money back...
Personally, I've never complained being hit on a contact... But I guess the one who gave it to me just complained some minutes after ;) :D
Sometimes it would be a hit... sometimes it would be a score and a big trash talking... Something like coming in the guy's face and say "Hey guy... Look at the scoreboard and watch my number"... LOL

Do I have to say I tackled someone during a basketball game? I still don't understand why the referee said it was illegal... :confused:
Legal? Hell No.... But that was fun... and I haven't given the first blood :laugh:

To me, the hit was legal but really unnecessary and dirty for a preseason game... Seems like Steelers are afraid of us and of Orton... :pound:

I Eat Staples
08-30-2010, 02:25 PM
Nothing cheap or illegal about it. Orton shouldn't be trying to tackle people in the preseason.

Poet
08-30-2010, 02:29 PM
That's just football.

BroncoWave
08-30-2010, 02:30 PM
Nothing cheap or illegal about it. Orton shouldn't be trying to tackle people in the preseason.

How is leading with your helmet and aiming for the guy's helmet/back not cheap? You can argue it's not illegal but it was clearly a cheap shot and given his history and his comments I really fail to see why anyone would think differently.

topscribe
08-30-2010, 02:32 PM
If I was a Bronco and on the field, I wouldn't complain... I would just give Harri-son of a b.... his money back...
Personally, I've never complained being hit on a contact... But I guess the one who gave it to me just complained some minutes after ;) :D
Sometimes it would be a hit... sometimes it would be a score and a big trash talking... Something like coming in the guy's face and say "Hey guy... Look at the scoreboard and watch my number"... LOL

Do I have to say I tackled someone during a basketball game? I still don't understand why the referee said it was illegal... :confused:
Legal? Hell No.... But that was fun... and I haven't given the first blood :laugh:

To me, the hit was legal but really unnecessary and dirty for a preseason game... Seems like Steelers are afraid of us and of Orton... :pound:

Well, if they weren't before, they should be now. With the inclusion of Walton
and Beadles, that is shaping up as one NASTY O-line . . .

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I Eat Staples
08-30-2010, 02:35 PM
How is leading with your helmet and aiming for the guy's helmet/back not cheap? You can argue it's not illegal but it was clearly a cheap shot and given his history and his comments I really fail to see why anyone would think differently.

If it isn't against the rules how is it "cheap"?

topscribe
08-30-2010, 02:37 PM
If it isn't against the rules how is it "cheap"?

Where've you been, Staples? All through this thread, we've been talking about
the difference between "illegal" and "cheap."

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BroncoWave
08-30-2010, 02:37 PM
pEDzDCCvhCo

Go to the 9 second mark. He clearly dove and aimed his helmet right at Orton's helmet. I really don't see where the argument is. I just can't see how you can argue that spearing a guy helmet to helmet on his way to the ground isn't cheap.

Did Orton say something to deserve it? Maybe. Was his tackling technique poor? Probably. But that doesn't change what Harrison did. You're just naive if you don't think he was trying to injure him.

T.K.O.
08-30-2010, 02:39 PM
I lose alot of respect for Orton if he complains about this.

what percentage of respect do you think it will be ?
and how much will be left ?:confused:;)

I Eat Staples
08-30-2010, 02:42 PM
Where've you been, Staples? All through this thread, we've been talking about
the difference between "illegal" and "cheap."

-----

I just got on and didn't read through all 8 pages, I'll go back. :beer:


pEDzDCCvhCo

Go to the 9 second mark. He clearly dove and aimed his helmet right at Orton's helmet. I really don't see where the argument is. I just can't see how you can argue that spearing a guy helmet to helmet on his way to the ground isn't cheap.

Did Orton say something to deserve it? Maybe. Was his tackling technique poor? Probably. But that doesn't change what Harrison did. You're just naive if you don't think he was trying to injure him.

They asked John Lynch about it, and what he said was true. As a defender, whenever you see a QB in the open field, you take a shot at him. It's not cheap. Orton can defend himself. If he can't, it's on him. QBs shouldn't be any more protected than any other position. If a QB can't take a hit they should get out of the way on a play like that. Simple.

If a HB hits a DB like that no one says anything. On that play, Harrison was in a HB role and Orton was in a DB role.

BroncoWave
08-30-2010, 02:44 PM
Just for fun I googled cheap shot and this was the first video:

BuI6ORUCrzc

That was as cheap as it gets but I lol'ed when I first saw it. It's towards the end of the video.

shank
08-30-2010, 02:44 PM
I lose alot of respect for Orton if he complains about this.

i think it's a total cheap-shot, but i don't disagree with you clay. cheap-shots are a part of sports... let the people who review things review it... orton or the broncos don't need to make an issue of it.

harrison (and other dirty players) usually get whats coming to them, as players and teams don't forget these things. this isn't the first time harrison's sportsmanship has come into question: he's putting a target on his head, i'm just waiting for someone to balance out the karma-scale.

T.K.O.
08-30-2010, 02:46 PM
I just got on and didn't read through all 8 pages, I'll go back. :beer:



They asked John Lynch about it, and what he said was true. As a defender, whenever you see a QB in the open field, you take a shot at him. It's not cheap. Orton can defend himself. If he can't, it's on him. QBs shouldn't be any more protected than any other position. If a QB can't take a hit they should get out of the way on a play like that. Simple.

If a HB hits a DB like that no one says anything. On that play, Harrison was in a HB role and Orton was in a DB role.

yeah but what harrison FAILED to consider is that now orton is gonna be pissed and throw for 35 td's 3 picks and 4300 yds.leaving the steelers with one less chance at a playoff spot !:elefant::salute:

Denver Native (Carol)
08-30-2010, 02:53 PM
If a HB hits a DB like that no one says anything. On that play, Harrison was in a HB role and Orton was in a DB role.

If the hit is determined to be "helmet to helmet", it does not matter who hits who - it is illegal.

Slick
08-30-2010, 02:53 PM
I believe in karma shank.

shank
08-30-2010, 02:58 PM
I believe in karma shank.

i believe in sociological karma. the NFL is a society with the ability to self-regulate to some degree. dirty players will "get what's coming to them."

rcsodak
08-30-2010, 03:01 PM
Pat Kirwin just started his show talking about it. His point was QB's dont spend time tackling dummys. That they prolly shouldnt be sticking their head in on a tackle like that; one most likely they'll lose.
Personally, it looked dirty.....close to, if not, spiking. And contrary to what some posters think, I for one wouldnt be too proud of a bronco had the roles been reversed. I didnt like when romo spit in a players face or when he purposefully head hunted. IT'S A GAME. Orton could easily have beeen concussed, ala Trent Green from his Cinci game.
Mobile Post via Mobile.BroncosForums.com/forums

I Eat Staples
08-30-2010, 03:02 PM
If the hit is determined to be "helmet to helmet", it does not matter who hits who - it is illegal.

First of all, it wasn't helmet to helmet. Second of all, that isn't true. Adrian Peterson hits people helmet to helmet all the time. A HB can go helmet to helmet with a defender. The rules only protect QBs and "defenseless receivers". NFL rules are broken.

Northman
08-30-2010, 03:03 PM
I just got on and didn't read through all 8 pages, I'll go back. :beer:



They asked John Lynch about it, and what he said was true. As a defender, whenever you see a QB in the open field, you take a shot at him. It's not cheap. Orton can defend himself. If he can't, it's on him. QBs shouldn't be any more protected than any other position. If a QB can't take a hit they should get out of the way on a play like that. Simple.

If a HB hits a DB like that no one says anything. On that play, Harrison was in a HB role and Orton was in a DB role.

Yea, but clearly Lynch is a POS. :lol:

This is why you dont see Peyton Manning trying to tackle guys. He knows he isnt built for it and would rather "live" to see another day. I think Top kind of hit the nail on the head with it. Orton was gutsy but very stupid.

Northman
08-30-2010, 03:05 PM
yeah but what harrison FAILED to consider is that now orton is gonna be pissed and throw for 35 td's 3 picks and 4300 yds.leaving the steelers with one less chance at a playoff spot !:elefant::salute:

Their playoff chances were hurt when Little Ben started diddling girls in bathrooms.

Slick
08-30-2010, 03:06 PM
i believe in sociological karma. the NFL is a society with the ability to self-regulate to some degree. dirty players will "get what's coming to them."

I'll fly up and steal the valve stems out of the tires on the Steeler team bus next time they come to town. That's how I roll.


Looking at the video I think Harrison showed some intent to harm, but it didn't look like that big of a hit. Kyle was lucky. It could have been a lot worse. He really had no business trying to tackle that monster in the pre season in the first place. Regular season or playoffs okay, but not here.

claymore
08-30-2010, 03:15 PM
pEDzDCCvhCo

Go to the 9 second mark. He clearly dove and aimed his helmet right at Orton's helmet. I really don't see where the argument is. I just can't see how you can argue that spearing a guy helmet to helmet on his way to the ground isn't cheap.

Did Orton say something to deserve it? Maybe. Was his tackling technique poor? Probably. But that doesn't change what Harrison did. You're just naive if you don't think he was trying to injure him.

I dont see it that way. He lowered his shoulder. THe shoulder made contact first, he was going down,, and he rocked Orton.

I dont think its cheap. I would hope to hell a Bronco would do the same thing.

TXBRONC
08-30-2010, 03:19 PM
It's no different than a 240 lbs runningback running over a 190 lbs defensive back. There was nothing illegal about the hit it's part of the game.

Rex
08-30-2010, 03:19 PM
I dont see it that way. He lowered his shoulder. THe shoulder made contact first, he was going down,, and he rocked Orton.

I dont think its cheap. I would hope to hell a Bronco would do the same thing.

IF Orton was Cutler, you would have beaten your wife and sent Harrison a letter bomb.

shank
08-30-2010, 03:20 PM
I dont see it that way. He lowered his shoulder. THe shoulder made contact first, he was going down,, and he rocked Orton.

I dont think its cheap. I would hope to hell a Bronco would do the same thing.

i would hope to hell that a bronco would try to maximize the play. if harrison goes over orton instead of into him, there's room to gain at least a couple more yards with lendale marying out of bounds.

BroncoNut
08-30-2010, 03:21 PM
pEDzDCCvhCo

Go to the 9 second mark. He clearly dove and aimed his helmet right at Orton's helmet. I really don't see where the argument is. I just can't see how you can argue that spearing a guy helmet to helmet on his way to the ground isn't cheap.

Did Orton say something to deserve it? Maybe. Was his tackling technique poor? Probably. But that doesn't change what Harrison did. You're just naive if you don't think he was trying to injure him.

Of course he was trying to hurt him. That's what's called punishing tacklers.

claymore
08-30-2010, 03:21 PM
IF Orton was Cutler, you would have beaten your wife and sent Harrison a letter bomb.

LOL. Maybe.

Northman
08-30-2010, 03:24 PM
I dont see it that way. He lowered his shoulder. THe shoulder made contact first, he was going down,, and he rocked Orton.

I dont think its cheap. I would hope to hell a Bronco would do the same thing.


If that had been Doom or anyone else on Peyton Manning this board would be celebrating it.

KCL
08-30-2010, 03:24 PM
That hit isn't any worse than this one.. I know you all loved this hit.

xoZEczoSL6M

Nomad
08-30-2010, 03:25 PM
LOL. Maybe.

I wonder how many die hard Tebow fans were cheering and hoping Orton was down ready to send Harrison a thank you card:D!!

I Eat Staples
08-30-2010, 03:26 PM
It's no different than a 240 lbs runningback running over a 190 lbs defensive back. There was nothing illegal about the hit it's part of the game.

Exactly what I said.

Nomad
08-30-2010, 03:26 PM
That hit isn't any worse than this one.. I know you all loved this hit.

xoZEczoSL6M

Didn't he get fined and penalized?? Too long ago for me to remember!!:lol: plus it was a BRONCO to a Chief so it's acceptable:eviltongue:

Northman
08-30-2010, 03:27 PM
That hit isn't any worse than this one.. I know you all loved this hit.

xoZEczoSL6M

Yep, i love that hit. Never agreed with the fine because of the speed of the game but the rules are the rules yet there were MANY Bronco fans defending it. Football is a rough sport and anytime a defender can get a chance to jack someone up regardless of position they are going to do it.

claymore
08-30-2010, 03:27 PM
If that had been Doom or anyone else on Peyton Manning this board would be celebrating it.I would have kicked the dog I would have been so happy!


I wonder how many die hard Tebow fans were cheering and hoping Orton was down ready to send Harrison a thank you card:D!!

Quinn got so excited he jumped up and spilled his nail polish. :laugh:

Buff
08-30-2010, 03:28 PM
Either way, there is no doubt that Harrison is one bad mother******.

KCL
08-30-2010, 03:33 PM
Didn't he get fined and penalized?? Too long ago for me to remember!!:lol: plus it was a BRONCO to a Chief so it's acceptable:eviltongue:

I don't remember...that's been a few years ago...truthfully though...hits are going to happen.

weazel
08-30-2010, 03:47 PM
That hit isn't any worse than this one.. I know you all loved this hit.

xoZEczoSL6M

hear, hear

T.K.O.
08-30-2010, 04:25 PM
James Harrison says Kyle Orton "got what he had coming"
Posted by Mike Florio on August 30, 2010 1:04 PM ET
When a bank robber gets away with the money, the last thing he should do is call the bank the next day, identify himself, and say, "You're damn right I took the money."

A similar concept applies when a football player apparently gets away with a fairly blatant case of unnecessary roughness.

After recovering a fumble, which eventually was ruled not a fumble, in Sunday night's game between the Steelers and the Broncos, linebacker James Harrison encountered Broncos quarterback Kyle Orton. Orton, not cognizant of the line between bravery and lunacy, tried to tackle Harrison. So Harrison unloaded on Orton. Hard.

"He was running his mouth and getting in the way of the train," Harrison said after the game, per Mike Klis of the Denver Post. "And the train wasn't coming off the track."

If Harrison had said nothing more, we think he'd be fine. It was a rough play, but no one told Orton to get in the way of the train. But then Harrison added a sentence or two that creates the impression that he was trying to injure Orton.

"He was popping off down there the first time they were about to score," Harrison said. "So you run your mouth, expect to get something. Everything's between the lines, so he got what he had coming."

Even though Orton wasn't throwing the ball or otherwise within the protections that apply to quarterbacks, the rules prevent specific instances of unnecessary roughness. Despite the fact that no flag was thrown, Harrison's word could be enough to trigger a letter from the league office informing him that he's getting what he has coming, as in money coming out of his check.

Northman
08-30-2010, 04:28 PM
Harrison is just grand standing. Had Orton popped right back up it would be much ado about nothing.

KCL
08-30-2010, 05:56 PM
Kyle Orton is a wimp...:eek:

HORSEPOWER 56
08-30-2010, 08:35 PM
The bottom line is, Orton was a dumbass for even trying that crap in a preseason game... PERIOD. I'd call him a dumbass for doing it in a regular season game. Playoffs are different story because it's lose and go home. That $9 million extension meant the Broncos have some faith in him, not that he needs to try to be superman and tackle 260 lb LBers. He's really lucky he didn't get a concussion that knocked his ass out for the season and potentially jeopardized his pro career.

What do Tom Brady, Drew Brees, and Peyton Manning do after a turnover (even if they threw the INT)? They unbuckle their damn chinstrap and start walking off the field away from the action so they don't get destroyed by the 11 guys on the defense looking to get in a free shot. It's no different than when Al Wilson completely decked Gus Frerotte in the Miami game a few years ago after an INT because Frerotte took two steps toward the play after. It was completely LEGAL.

If Orton thinks every defensive player doesn't want a free shot at him, then I don't know where he learned to play football. Running a CB who just picked you off (and you outweigh by 40 lbs) out of bounds after an INT is one thing. Taking on a LB going full speed is just stupid. If Orton wants to remain a starter in this league, he needs to start playing like one and not taking unnecessary risks. For a smart guy, I don't think he could've done anything more idiotic. Any Brownie points he may have accumulated in respect by his teammates for taking on Harrison would quickly be forgotten had he landed himself on IR.

HORSEPOWER 56
08-30-2010, 08:47 PM
So, where's all the crying for Dennis Dixon? Wesley Woodyard jacked his ass up and it was a little late and a little harder than it needed to be. No flag was thrown and it was legal, but c'mon. That hit had some serious "stank" on it.

QBs football are players, too. When they involve themselves in the action on the field they become just like anyone else. I'd have knocked Orton's lights out, too. I played varsity Strong Safety in High School and there's nothing in this world, not even sex compares, like blowing up a QB.

Orton was responsible for it, not Harrison.

Lonestar
08-30-2010, 08:51 PM
The bottom line is, Orton was a dumbass for even trying that crap in a preseason game... PERIOD. I'd call him a dumbass for doing it in a regular season game. Playoffs are different story because it's lose and go home. That $9 million extension meant the Broncos have some faith in him, not that he needs to try to be superman and tackle 260 lb LBers. He's really lucky he didn't get a concussion that knocked his ass out for the season and potentially jeopardized his pro career.

What do Tom Brady, Drew Brees, and Peyton Manning do after a turnover (even if they threw the INT)? They unbuckle their damn chinstrap and start walking off the field away from the action so they don't get destroyed by the 11 guys on the defense looking to get in a free shot. It's no different than when Al Wilson completely decked Gus Frerotte in the Miami game a few years ago after an INT because Frerotte took two steps toward the play after. It was completely LEGAL.

If Orton thinks every defensive player doesn't want a free shot at him, then I don't know where he learned to play football. Running a CB who just picked you and you outweigh by 40 lbs off out of bounds after an INT is one thing. Taking on a LB going full speed is just stupid. If Orton wants to remain a starter in this league, he needs to start playing like one and not taking unnecessary risks. For a smart guy, I don't think he could've done anything more idiotic. Any Brownie points he may have accumulated in respect by his teammates for taking on Harrison would quickly be forgotten had he landed himself on IR.

sorry but he may be a dumb ass but the other players see him do that and they try harder it is called leadership and one of the reasons they work for him.

Was it smart ? he is not on IR and will not miss the opener. guess it was better than playing BB in the off season. or slipping and falling on a cheeseburger wrapper.:laugh::laugh::laugh::laugh:

Denver Native (Carol)
08-30-2010, 08:56 PM
So, where's all the crying for Dennis Dixon? Wesley Woodyard jacked his ass up and it was a little late and a little harder than it needed to be. No flag was thrown and it was legal, but c'mon. That hit had some serious "stank" on it.

QBs football are players, too. When they involve themselves in the action on the field they become just like anyone else. I'd have knocked Orton's lights out, too. I played varsity Strong Safety in High School and there's nothing in this world, not even sex compares, like blowing up a QB.

Orton was responsible for it, not Harrison.

What would anyone's reaction, or moreso, the other player's reactions be, if Orton just stood there and did nothing on trying to stop Harrison on his way to the end zone?

HORSEPOWER 56
08-30-2010, 08:57 PM
sorry but he may be a dumb ass but the other players see him do that and they try harder it is called leadership and one of the reasons they work for him.

Was it smart ? he is not on IR and will not miss the opener. guess it was better than playing BB in the off season. or slipping and falling on a cheeseburger wrapper.:laugh::laugh::laugh::laugh:

Until that dumb shit lands him on IR and our season goes into the crapper with Brady Quinn at the helm. Then I'm sure all the players will love him for it...:rolleyes:

I'd bet you every other player on the sidelines gave him props for guts and told him he was a dumbass after the play. I wouldn't doubt it if McDaniels gave him an earful, too.

HORSEPOWER 56
08-30-2010, 09:01 PM
What would anyone's reaction, or moreso, the other player's reactions be, if Orton just stood there and did nothing on trying to stop Harrison on his way to the end zone?

Umm, I think they'd all realize it was a PRESEASON GAME THAT DOESN'T MEAN ANYTHING! Taking unnecessary risks isn't the same thing as being a team player or trying hard. I'd be willing to bet there were some guys, and I know there were some coaches, a little miffed at Clady for his unnecessary risk playing basketball.

Like i said, Playoffs... you try to make that tackle. Any other time, you live to fight another day. You're not some 4th string scrub trying to prove something so you can make the team. You're the STARTING QB and the team's success rides on your shoulders.

GEM
08-30-2010, 09:01 PM
Totally! If ref's had ruled it properly as an incomplete pass neither player would have been in the position they were in.

That is what I was screaming at the tv. They are always so ******* quick to blow the whistle, but not in a preseason game with nothing on the line but injuries that could seriously **** up a franchise's season. Total bullshit on the part of the refs.

Lonestar
08-30-2010, 09:02 PM
Until that dumb shit lands him on IR and our season goes into the crapper with Brady Quinn at the helm. Then I'm sure all the players will love him for it...:rolleyes:

I'd bet you every other player on the sidelines gave him props for guts and told him he was a dumbass after the play. I wouldn't doubt it if McDaniels gave him an earful, too.

guess we will know next time if he pulls up like a wimp or goes out to make the play.

I suspect it will be the former. I also suspect that Josh did not tell him to not try to make the play but how to do it better, next time someone fumbles the pass.

HORSEPOWER 56
08-30-2010, 09:04 PM
guess we will know next time if he pulls up like a wimp or goes out to make the play.

I suspect it will be the former. I also suspect that Josh did not tell him to not try to make the play but how to do it better, next time someone fumbles the pass.

I'd rather him be considered a healthy, effective QB "wimp" than a busted up, injured, ineffective one who showed a little guts and a lot of stupidity in a PRESEASON GAME!

topscribe
08-30-2010, 09:05 PM
So, where's all the crying for Dennis Dixon? Wesley Woodyard jacked his ass up and it was a little late and a little harder than it needed to be. No flag was thrown and it was legal, but c'mon. That hit had some serious "stank" on it.

QBs football are players, too. When they involve themselves in the action on the field they become just like anyone else. I'd have knocked Orton's lights out, too. I played varsity Strong Safety in High School and there's nothing in this world, not even sex compares, like blowing up a QB.

Orton was responsible for it, not Harrison.

You're way over the top, HP . . . waaaaaayyyy over the top.

I've hit people on the football field, and I've had sex.

Sex is better . . . :coffee:

-----

Northman
08-30-2010, 09:05 PM
What would anyone's reaction, or moreso, the other player's reactions be, if Orton just stood there and did nothing on trying to stop Harrison on his way to the end zone?

Probably smart? Manning doesnt do that shit and his teammates totally respect him.

HORSEPOWER 56
08-30-2010, 09:06 PM
You're way over the top, HP . . . waaaaaayyyy over the top.

I've hit people on the football field, and I've had sex.

Sex is better . . . :coffee:

-----

Yeah, but good hits on QBs don't come along too often. I can't say the same about sex. Maybe I'm spoiled? :confused:

topscribe
08-30-2010, 09:10 PM
Yeah, but good hits on QBs don't come along too often. I can't say the same about sex. Maybe I'm spoiled? :confused:

You may have a point. It's been 40-45 years since I hit a QB.

Since I last had sex, it's been . . .























. . . maybe I do hit a QB more often . . .



-----

TXBRONC
08-30-2010, 09:23 PM
That is what I was screaming at the tv. They are always so ******* quick to blow the whistle, but not in a preseason game with nothing on the line but injuries that could seriously **** up a franchise's season. Total bullshit on the part of the refs.

I cringed after the play was over but I don't see how we be to hard on the refs. Those things are happening so fast that the human mind isn't always going to be able to process the information in a nano second.

I Eat Staples
08-30-2010, 09:28 PM
What would anyone's reaction, or moreso, the other player's reactions be, if Orton just stood there and did nothing on trying to stop Harrison on his way to the end zone?

It was a preseason game and everyone who was on the field should have known that it was incomplete. At the very worst, it would have been reviewed and overturned.

Zweems56
08-30-2010, 09:35 PM
If it isn't against the rules how is it "cheap"?

Is starting a fight by punching someone in the balls against the rules? Would you consider it cheap?

Denver Native (Carol)
08-30-2010, 09:38 PM
It was a preseason game and everyone who was on the field should have known that it was incomplete. At the very worst, it would have been reviewed and overturned.

No whistle blew, the play continued, but everyone who was on the field should have known that it was incomplete :confused:

topscribe
08-30-2010, 09:45 PM
Is starting a fight by punching someone in the balls against the rules? Would you consider it cheap?

I think the guy who did that to me would find it very expensive . . .

-----

HORSEPOWER 56
08-30-2010, 09:56 PM
I think the guy who did that to me would find it very expensive . . .

-----

Yeah, I hear those prosthetic ones they install into "older gents" can get pretty pricey...

















:lol::salute:

I Eat Staples
08-30-2010, 10:02 PM
Is starting a fight by punching someone in the balls against the rules? Would you consider it cheap?

That's definitely against the rules. Punching someone anywhere is against NFL rules. That may also be considered sexual assault in the eyes of the law. So where is your argument?


No whistle blew, the play continued, but everyone who was on the field should have known that it was incomplete :confused:

If they were watching the play, yes. Couldn't you immediately tell that it was not anywhere close to being a fumble?

TimTebow15MVP
08-30-2010, 10:04 PM
it was a legal hit but a not necassary for the pre season. if its a playoff game yeah go ahead knock the teams qb out for the game or whatever but he went for the kill shot in the pre season game which was expected with how they tried to bully us but they failed. We still moved the ball on them and JD walton had the last laugh. I loved how he noticed farriors helmet was off and launched his helmet into farriors forehead which was another cheap shot but necassary since the bullies started the bullshit dirty play with hella personal fouls.

http://i410.photobucket.com/albums/pp186/broncosfreaks/610x-1.jpg

walton shows why we drafted him. physical NASTY olinemen and i love it. its awesome when your rookie takes something in his own hand and deals with it accordingly. he bashed farriors forehead and sent a loud message that we will not be bullied. i love that pic. **** the steelers.

TXBRONC
08-30-2010, 10:12 PM
Yeah, I hear those prosthetic ones they install into "older gents" can get pretty pricey...

















:lol::salute:

As far as I know science hasn't come up with a prosthetic phallic. That being said maybe Top was referring to doubling up on his Viagra. That would get costly. :shocked:

GEM
08-30-2010, 10:15 PM
Ya know what I got out of last night that I absolutely loved....that they were being downright dirty play after after play and we didn't fold. We took it in stride, used their stupidity to our advantage and put 34 points on the ******* board while only running 200 something yards on the field. If they want to be hothead idiots have at it, but you aren't going to take us off our path and we'll hurt you in the end for pulling the head games.

LOVE IT!

BroncoWave
08-30-2010, 10:19 PM
That is what I was screaming at the tv. They are always so ******* quick to blow the whistle, but not in a preseason game with nothing on the line but injuries that could seriously **** up a franchise's season. Total bullshit on the part of the refs.

It's actually totally the right thing to do if it's really close to just go ahead and call it a catch and a fumble, because that is challengeable. If you just call it incomplete, it can't be challenged. By calling it a catch and fumble, it results in better chance of getting the call right in the end.

topscribe
08-30-2010, 10:26 PM
Yeah, I hear those prosthetic ones they install into "older gents" can get pretty pricey...

:lol::salute:

Well, it's like this . . . I can be pretty patient and forgiving with what's mine.

But don't mess with my wife's property . . .

-----

Zweems56
08-30-2010, 10:48 PM
That's definitely against the rules. Punching someone anywhere is against NFL rules. That may also be considered sexual assault in the eyes of the law. So where is your argument?



If they were watching the play, yes. Couldn't you immediately tell that it was not anywhere close to being a fumble?

I meant a fight in life.. not in football. My point is that not everything that is within the boundaries of the "rules" is considered sportsmanlike. Dude had a perfect opportunity to scoop and score, but instead, he buried his helmet into a quarterback's spine. That is unsportsmanlike, unnecessary, and plain disgusting. Dude should be thinking about scoring for his team, not severing the quarterback's spine. But I wouldn't expect anything different from a piece of trash like Harrison.

Buff
08-30-2010, 11:25 PM
I meant a fight in life.. not in football. My point is that not everything that is within the boundaries of the "rules" is considered sportsmanlike. Dude had a perfect opportunity to scoop and score, but instead, he buried his helmet into a quarterback's spine. That is unsportsmanlike, unnecessary, and plain disgusting. Dude should be thinking about scoring for his team, not severing the quarterback's spine. But I wouldn't expect anything different from a piece of trash like Harrison.

Holy cow, you are so far off here. Go back and watch the play if you don't believe me.

pEDzDCCvhCo

Harrison is about to be forced out of bounds one way or another. He's clearly not going to score. He can either go out of bounds, or stay in bounds and deliver the blow...

What he did is what any coach would want him to do. He plays like a badass, he didn't violate any rules and it wasn't poor sportsmanship. He is just a good football player who happens to play a very violent game.

His comments may have been slightly over the line, but whining about the hit makes us look like school girls.

GEM
08-30-2010, 11:29 PM
Holy cow, you are so far off here. Go back and watch the play if you don't believe me.

pEDzDCCvhCo

Harrison is about to be forced out of bounds one way or another. He's clearly not going to score. He can either go out of bounds, or stay in bounds and deliver the blow...

What he did is what any coach would want him to do. He plays like a badass, he didn't violate any rules and it wasn't poor sportsmanship. He is just a good football player who happens to play a very violent game.

His comments may have been slightly over the line, but whining about the hit makes us look like school girls.

Let's be fair here....neither guy called the reporter to whine or ruffle their badass feathers. It's a story in an otherwise boring preseason (Favre already announced he's back and news is slow) and the media is eating it up. In each case, they were asked the question and answered.

rcsodak
08-30-2010, 11:30 PM
So, where's all the crying for Dennis Dixon? Wesley Woodyard jacked his ass up and it was a little late and a little harder than it needed to be. No flag was thrown and it was legal, but c'mon. That hit had some serious "stank" on it.

QBs football are players, too. When they involve themselves in the action on the field they become just like anyone else. I'd have knocked Orton's lights out, too. I played varsity Strong Safety in High School and there's nothing in this world, not even sex compares, like blowing up a QB.

Orton was responsible for it, not Harrison.

Hmmmm....geeee.....was Dixon on his stomach getting speared in the back?

Yea....thought not. :coffee:

Poor comparison.

TimTebow15MVP
08-30-2010, 11:30 PM
it doesnt matter orton is fine and farriors head was bloody from a dirty hit from walton so it evens out.

rcsodak
08-30-2010, 11:33 PM
Umm, I think they'd all realize it was a PRESEASON GAME THAT DOESN'T MEAN ANYTHING! Taking unnecessary risks isn't the same thing as being a team player or trying hard. I'd be willing to bet there were some guys, and I know there were some coaches, a little miffed at Clady for his unnecessary risk playing basketball.

Like i said, Playoffs... you try to make that tackle. Any other time, you live to fight another day. You're not some 4th string scrub trying to prove something so you can make the team. You're the STARTING QB and the team's success rides on your shoulders.

Ever heard of "you play how you practice"?

Just like half-assing it down the 1st base line when you know you're going to be thrown out.

Seeing a team leader just standing there, ala cutler, is a good way for the rest of the team to say, "well, if HE doesn't give a shit, why should I?".

GEM
08-30-2010, 11:35 PM
Ever heard of "you play how you practice"?

Just like half-assing it down the 1st base line when you know you're going to be thrown out.

Seeing a team leader just standing there, ala cutler, is a good way for the rest of the team to say, "well, if HE doesn't give a shit, why should I?".

Do we need to bring CUTLER into another ORTON thread?

rcsodak
08-30-2010, 11:38 PM
it was a legal hit but a not necassary for the pre season. if its a playoff game yeah go ahead knock the teams qb out for the game or whatever but he went for the kill shot in the pre season game which was expected with how they tried to bully us but they failed. We still moved the ball on them and JD walton had the last laugh. I loved how he noticed farriors helmet was off and launched his helmet into farriors forehead which was another cheap shot but necassary since the bullies started the bullshit dirty play with hella personal fouls.

http://i410.photobucket.com/albums/pp186/broncosfreaks/610x-1.jpg

walton shows why we drafted him. physical NASTY olinemen and i love it. its awesome when your rookie takes something in his own hand and deals with it accordingly. he bashed farriors forehead and sent a loud message that we will not be bullied. i love that pic. **** the steelers.

If that was the case, then he should be fined. NO room for that shit.

On the other hand, I HIGHLY DOUBT he thought that quickly.

Buff
08-30-2010, 11:40 PM
Let's be fair here....neither guy called the reporter to whine or ruffle their badass feathers. It's a story in an otherwise boring preseason (Favre already announced he's back and news is slow) and the media is eating it up. In each case, they were asked the question and answered.

I'm just saying that for fans to claim that it's "disguisting" and "unsportmanlike" is waaaay off base. He didn't get a flag and I'd be really surprised if he gets a fine for the hit. It was just a missed call by the refs that led to a questionable decision from Orton.

TimTebow15MVP
08-30-2010, 11:42 PM
maybe he should be fined. taking cheap shots on our players was BS IMO. you cant always fight evil with kindness. You gotta put somebody on there ass sometimes. he might not had done it on purpose but he did launch when the helmet was clearly off. Maybe its coincedence either way karma is a bitch. he deserved to get his head bloody.

BroncoWave
08-30-2010, 11:43 PM
I'm just saying that for fans to claim that it's "disguisting" and "unsportmanlike" is waaaay off base. He didn't get a flag and I'd be really surprised if he gets a fine for the hit. It was just a missed call by the refs that led to a questionable decision from Orton.

Really? You're taking the "he didn't get a flag" angle? Do you know how many dirty hits happen every week that don't get flagged? The refs don't catch everything. Sorry but that's a really bad argument. And I would have agreed that he won't be fined, but his comments may get him one.

rcsodak
08-30-2010, 11:43 PM
Do we need to bring CUTLER into another ORTON thread?

Can't change it now, you've quoted it.

Geesh, Way to go, GEM! :rolleyes:







:D

topscribe
08-30-2010, 11:43 PM
If that was the case, then he should be fined. NO room for that shit.

On the other hand, I HIGHLY DOUBT he thought that quickly.

Yes, fined by the NFL . . .



Then treated out to dinner by the Broncos? :D



-----

Zweems56
08-30-2010, 11:45 PM
Holy cow, you are so far off here. Go back and watch the play if you don't believe me.

pEDzDCCvhCo

Harrison is about to be forced out of bounds one way or another. He's clearly not going to score. He can either go out of bounds, or stay in bounds and deliver the blow...

What he did is what any coach would want him to do. He plays like a badass, he didn't violate any rules and it wasn't poor sportsmanship. He is just a good football player who happens to play a very violent game.

His comments may have been slightly over the line, but whining about the hit makes us look like school girls.

I don't know about you, but I was never coached to intentionally injure anyone, exposed back or not.

TimTebow15MVP
08-30-2010, 11:45 PM
Yes, fined by the NFL . . .



Then treated out to dinner by the Broncos? :D



-----

i agree:beer:

Buff
08-30-2010, 11:54 PM
Really? You're taking the "he didn't get a flag" angle? Do you know how many dirty hits happen every week that don't get flagged? The refs don't catch everything. Sorry but that's a really bad argument. And I would have agreed that he won't be fined, but his comments may get him one.

I'm not saying a flag/no flag is always a good measurement of whether the hit was dirty or not... But it's a starting point. And in this case the refs were right on top of the call and didn't throw a flag.


I don't know about you, but I was never coached to intentionally injure anyone, exposed back or not.

If it was a RB carrying the ball and hitting a LB, then the RB would get praised for not running out of bounds and delivering a blow instead. In this instance, Harrison got to play the part of the RB and Orton, by engaging him, knowingly and willingly played the part of the LB.

It's not like he got flattened away from the play or something.

We honestly sound like cry baby homers arguing otherwise.

rcsodak
08-31-2010, 12:24 AM
If I was a Bronco and on the field, I wouldn't complain... I would just give Harri-son of a b.... his money back...
Personally, I've never complained being hit on a contact... But I guess the one who gave it to me just complained some minutes after ;) :D
Sometimes it would be a hit... sometimes it would be a score and a big trash talking... Something like coming in the guy's face and say "Hey guy... Look at the scoreboard and watch my number"... LOL

Do I have to say I tackled someone during a basketball game? I still don't understand why the referee said it was illegal... :confused:
Legal? Hell No.... But that was fun... and I haven't given the first blood :laugh:

To me, the hit was legal but really unnecessary and dirty for a preseason game... Seems like Steelers are afraid of us and of Orton... :pound:

:eek:

PAINTERDAVE
08-31-2010, 12:40 AM
Wow. Long thread. I'll admit I did not read every post.

It is football. Legal shot... but dude did not have to lower his shoulder into Orton's back like that.

He CHOSE to do that. It is evident in the video he made that move on purpose.

That is how some guys are.

It makes me think that there are a ton of guys around the league all itching to do the same thing to Tebow once he starts playing.

Some guys are good sports... some guys are brutes.

It is what it is.

Deal is... that play could just as easily ended Orton's season.
That is why Orton is getting his 9 million or whatever it is.

bcbronc
08-31-2010, 01:17 AM
jeebus, thought I logged in on a football site, but apparently this is Ballerina Forums.

imagine, a linebacker had a shot at a QB and took it. seen it all now. :rolleyes:

I mean if Dick Butkus reads this thread, he's going to hunt BaileyTheBest down and give him an ass whuppin. and rightfully so. :cool:

If DJ was in that situation vs Rivers or Manning and freakin hurdled him or STEPPED OUT OF BOUNDS!! oh my freakin gawd, I'd break my TV over my knee, throw half out my window the other half at my wife, fly down to Denver, find DJ...and well, I'd have calmed down by then and DJ is a lot bigger than me, so I'd probably ask for his autograph. But on the inside, I'd be thinking "wuss".

Linebackers attempt to injure QBs every down of every game. It's kinda in the job description. Heck, I coach 10-11 year olds, and I tell them to take every shot you can (between the whistles) at a QB. when I played LB, I loved interceptions cuz I got to go head-hunting on the QB. personally, hated seeing Orton down, but my love of hard-nosed defensive football loved the way Harrison finished that play, trash talking and all.

if you can't stand the contact, drop the helmet and grap a tutu for pucks sake.

topscribe
08-31-2010, 02:27 AM
jeebus, thought I logged in on a football site, but apparently this is Ballerina Forums.

imagine, a linebacker had a shot at a QB and took it. seen it all now. :rolleyes:

I mean if Dick Butkus reads this thread, he's going to hunt BaileyTheBest down and give him an ass whuppin. and rightfully so. :cool:

If DJ was in that situation vs Rivers or Manning and freakin hurdled him or STEPPED OUT OF BOUNDS!! oh my freakin gawd, I'd break my TV over my knee, throw half out my window the other half at my wife, fly down to Denver, find DJ...and well, I'd have calmed down by then and DJ is a lot bigger than me, so I'd probably ask for his autograph. But on the inside, I'd be thinking "wuss".

Linebackers attempt to injure QBs every down of every game. It's kinda in the job description. Heck, I coach 10-11 year olds, and I tell them to take every shot you can (between the whistles) at a QB. when I played LB, I loved interceptions cuz I got to go head-hunting on the QB. personally, hated seeing Orton down, but my love of hard-nosed defensive football loved the way Harrison finished that play, trash talking and all.

if you can't stand the contact, drop the helmet and grap a tutu for pucks sake.

True story: I don't know what the year was, or who his Washington Redskins
were playing on that day, but "Slingin' " Sammy Baugh was getting late hit
after late hit from a particular dirty player on the other side. Late hits were
more tolerated by officials back then, as long as they were "reasonable." But
Sammy was getting pummeled, and he and his line were getting pissed.

So Sammy gave some instructions in the huddle: Let the guy through - don't
touch him. Well, they didn't know what face masks were back then - just a
helmet and chin strap. The mug was out there, ripe for the disfiguring.

On the next play, Sammy faded back to pass, and, here came this guy. Sammy
reached back with a windup that probably resembled the one Timmy Tebow
possesses and threw it hard as he could (and he could throw hard) . . . right
between the dude's eyes. Knocked him colder than a fresh caught trout.

They didn't cry to referees back in the day. They didn't appeal to the NFL. They
simply got even.

Yesterday, the Broncos sent a Steelers safety out of the game with a shoulder
injury and a big, tough linebacker to the locker room, holding his hanky up to
an owie on his forehead. (Love me some J.D. Walton!)

Last year, the big, bad Steelers ambushed the hapless Broncos and intimidated
them and flat beat them up. This year, the Broncos mauled them. Even mild-
mannered Kyle Orton was heard telling the Pittsburgh defense the Broncos
were about to score, just before they did - right into the teeth of that Steeler
defense, right up the gut.

Did you catch the hidden meaning in what Orton said about the hit he took? "If
that's the way he wants to play, then that's the way he wants to play." Did you,
perhaps, detect some kind of prediction in that?--Like, maybe, we'll meet again?

Pity the poor team coming in on Sunday, expecting last year's Broncos.

Thank you, bcbronc, for bringing me to my senses. Maybe, just maybe, we're
about to witness some real football around these parts again!

http://i258.photobucket.com/albums/hh256/AZDynamics/Smilies/BronxRox.gif


/thread

-----

BroncoNut
08-31-2010, 07:40 AM
I like your post top. I'm not so sure yet if we're that big and bad though. I'd like to think your correct though

rcsodak
08-31-2010, 08:29 AM
I'd just like for opposing teams to know they were in a 60min battle afterwards. Leave the cheapshot shit at home. It never helped the raiders achieve anything other than getting labeled as having dumb players.
Mobile Post via Mobile.BroncosForums.com/forums

Sconnie Bronco
08-31-2010, 09:02 AM
I'd just like for opposing teams to know they were in a 60min battle afterwards. Leave the cheapshot shit at home. It never helped the raiders achieve anything other than getting labeled as having dumb players.
Mobile Post via Mobile.BroncosForums.com/forums

What made it a cheapshot?

BroncoWave
08-31-2010, 10:01 AM
If DJ was in that situation vs Rivers or Manning and freakin hurdled him or STEPPED OUT OF BOUNDS!! oh my freakin gawd, I'd break my TV over my knee, throw half out my window the other half at my wife, fly down to Denver, find DJ...and well, I'd have calmed down by then and DJ is a lot bigger than me, so I'd probably ask for his autograph. But on the inside, I'd be thinking "wuss".

Really? So say hypothetically we're down 5 to the Chargers late in the game and have to win to make the playoffs and Rivers is the only person between DJ and the endzone. You'd rather him just deliver a shot a Rivers than hurdle him and go in for the score?

Now if you have the chance to put a clean shot on the QB and you don't have a chance at scoring anyway, I'm all for it. But when you could easily hurdle or sidestep him to get more yards, diving at him for the sake of being a tough guy is just stupid.

Ravage!!!
08-31-2010, 10:09 AM
Harrison wasn't getting into the endzone.

topscribe
08-31-2010, 10:51 AM
I like your post top. I'm not so sure yet if we're that big and bad though. I'd like to think your correct though

The brawn is now out there. The Broncos took care of that in FA and the draft.
What remains, my friend, is what needs to take place in the frontal lobe, i.e.,
the belief system. Dawkins called it the "want-to."

That is why Wink keeps yelling at his players, "Nobody runs on the Denver
Broncos!" If they buy into it, nobody will.

But the Broncos apparently decided they were going to take on the Steelers,
toe-to-toe, blow-by-blow. And they did. I just hope it sank in through it, that
they now can . . .



I'd just like for opposing teams to know they were in a 60min battle afterwards. Leave the cheapshot shit at home. It never helped the raiders achieve anything other than getting labeled as having dumb players.
Mobile Post via Mobile.BroncosForums.com/forums

That's the key. I don't know the circumstances behind what happened to
Farrior, what was taking place in the trenches before that. But I seriously
doubt that was the first shot. I believe most of the Steelers players respect
their colleagues, even from other teams. They play hard and tough and
impose their will on their opponents, as they should. They must be matched
blow for blow, or that battle of wills is lost, and therefore probably the game.
That is the nature of the game.

Those such as Harrison and Farrior, however, go beyond that. When the
Broncos lost Nalen, they lost that Enforcer who let dirty players know that
what goes around, comes around. But now, with the inclusion of Walton and
Beadles, the O-line has suddenly appeared to have taken on some NASTY. If
so, the Enforcer is back!

BTW, the Raiders did have their dirty players, the likes of Ted Hendricks, Jack
Tatum, George Atkinson. But most of them were just hard, tough, players who
knew they could whip you any day of the week and twice on Sunday. Nobody
wanted the play the Raiders - until Randy Gradishar, Rubin Carter, and
company decided they want to . . . real bad. Then nobody wanted to play the
Broncos.

It all happens upstairs, between the ears. The will, the want-to. I'm hoping
McDaniels and Wink and the rest of them are bringing that back to the
Broncos.

I agree with you: Leave the cheap shots out of it . . . as a mode of aggression.
But . . . do what you need to, to defend yourself. I taught my boys growing
up: do everything you can to keep out of a fight, including just walking away,
if you can. But if you must fight, you finish it (and they always have).

Appeal to the league? The league won't make other teams respect the Broncos.
The Broncos will. Or won't. One or the other. It is up to them . . .

-----

BroncoWave
08-31-2010, 10:58 AM
Appeal to the league? The league won't make other teams respect the Broncos.
The Broncos will. Or won't. One or the other. It is up to them . . .

-----

If you're talking about McD appealing that hit to the the league, I think it was the right thing to do if for no other reason than to further show Orton that he has his back and will stick up for him. I doubt McD really cares too much if they fine Harrison or not because the message it sends to Orton is worth more than that.

broncohead
08-31-2010, 11:00 AM
I don't see how Harrison did anything different then what Orton tried doing. Orton could have tried to form tackle but he went low trying to take out his legs below the knees. Players get hurt that way all the time. He wanted to go low so Harrison made him pay for it. Backfired on Orton if you ask me.

TXBRONC
08-31-2010, 11:05 AM
I don't see how Harrison did anything different then what Orton tried doing. Orton could have tried to form tackle but he went low trying to take out his legs below the knees. Players get hurt that way all the time. He wanted to go low so Harrison made him pay for it. Backfired on Orton if you ask me.

I agree. While I don't want Orton of any other Bronco to get hurt I just don't think what Harrison did was illegal.

topscribe
08-31-2010, 11:10 AM
If you're talking about McD appealing that hit to the the league, I think it was the right thing to do if for no other reason than to further show Orton that he has his back and will stick up for him. I doubt McD really cares too much if they fine Harrison or not because the message it sends to Orton is worth more than that.

Of course they should appeal it to the league. I didn't say they shouldn't.
That was not my point.



I don't see how Harrison did anything different then what Orton tried doing. Orton could have tried to form tackle but he went low trying to take out his legs below the knees. Players get hurt that way all the time. He wanted to go low so Harrison made him pay for it. Backfired on Orton if you ask me.

If you are trying to attribute dirty play to Orton, it is a massive fail. Orton
tackled they way they are taught to tackle when the other player is much
bigger than they. Have you ever seen Champ tackle a big running back or TE?
He goes low to take the guy's legs out from under him.

If Orton just had to tackle, that was the way to do it. My contention is, he
didn't have to place himself in harm's way like that in the first place. The
guy was already on the sideline. Orton could have just pushed him out of
bounds. That was Orton's mistake, not dirty play . . .

-----

BroncoNut
08-31-2010, 11:41 AM
The brawn is now out there. The Broncos took care of that in FA and the draft.
What remains, my friend, is what needs to take place in the frontal lobe, i.e.,
the belief system. Dawkins called it the "want-to."

That is why Wink keeps yelling at his players, "Nobody runs on the Denver
Broncos!" If they buy into it, nobody will.

But the Broncos apparently decided they were going to take on the Steelers,
toe-to-toe, blow-by-blow. And they did. I just hope it sank in through it, that
they now can . . .



That's the key. I don't know the circumstances behind what happened to
Farrior, what was taking place in the trenches before that. But I seriously
doubt that was the first shot. I believe most of the Steelers players respect
their colleagues, even from other teams. They play hard and tough and
impose their will on their opponents, as they should. They must be matched
blow for blow, or that battle of wills is lost, and therefore probably the game.
That is the nature of the game.

Those such as Harrison and Farrior, however, go beyond that. When the
Broncos lost Nalen, they lost that Enforcer who let dirty players know that
what goes around, comes around. But now, with the inclusion of Walton and
Beadles, the O-line has suddenly appeared to have taken on some NASTY. If
so, the Enforcer is back!

BTW, the Raiders did have their dirty players, the likes of Ted Hendricks, Jack
Tatum, George Atkinson. But most of them were just hard, tough, players who
knew they could whip you any day of the week and twice on Sunday. Nobody
wanted the play the Raiders - until Randy Gradishar, Rubin Carter, and
company decided they want to . . . real bad. Then nobody wanted to play the
Broncos.

It all happens upstairs, between the ears. The will, the want-to. I'm hoping
McDaniels and Wink and the rest of them are bringing that back to the
Broncos.

I agree with you: Leave the cheap shots out of it . . . as a mode of aggression.
But . . . do what you need to, to defend yourself. I taught my boys growing
up: do everything you can to keep out of a fight, including just walking away,
if you can. But if you must fight, you finish it (and they always have).

Appeal to the league? The league won't make other teams respect the Broncos.
The Broncos will. Or won't. One or the other. It is up to them . . .

-----

Well, "we" did handle the Steelers quite nicely, and I like a lot of what I saw. We shall see. We shall see. (I like alot of what I saw actually as the game progressed, may indeed be a Wink factor there).

broncohead
08-31-2010, 11:56 AM
Of course they should appeal it to the league. I didn't say they shouldn't.
That was not my point.




If you are trying to attribute dirty play to Orton, it is a massive fail. Orton
tackled they way they are taught to tackle when the other player is much
bigger than they. Have you ever seen Champ tackle a big running back or TE?
He goes low to take the guy's legs out from under him.

If Orton just had to tackle, that was the way to do it. My contention is, he
didn't have to place himself in harm's way like that in the first place. The
guy was already on the sideline. Orton could have just pushed him out of
bounds. That was Orton's mistake, not dirty play . . .

-----

I have seen Champ tackle like that but he wraps up, keeps his head up and has a good form tackle which doesn't cause injury. Orton lowered his head and tried leading with his shoulder below his knee which does cause knee/ankle injuries all the time. The way Orton did it and Champ does it is completely different.

topscribe
08-31-2010, 12:03 PM
I have seen Champ tackle like that but he wraps up, keeps his head up and has a good form tackle which doesn't cause injury. Orton lowered his head and tried leading with his shoulder below his knee which does cause knee/ankle injuries all the time. The way Orton did it and Champ does it is completely different.

There's another side to it: Champ is a defensive player. He has been through
extensive training and has years of experience in tackling.

Orton is a QB. QBs do not receive extensive training in tackling. He was doing
what he could to protect himself, which is what QBs should do. It was awfully
poor tackling form - I'll grant that. But it was not dirty play. Orton is not that
kind of player. Harrison, however, is.

To try to implicate Orton in this is asinine.

-----

Sconnie Bronco
08-31-2010, 12:03 PM
I have seen Champ tackle like that but he wraps up, keeps his head up and has a good form tackle which doesn't cause injury. Orton lowered his head and tried leading with his shoulder below his knee which does cause knee/ankle injuries all the time. The way Orton did it and Champ does it is completely different.

Ortons tackle was clumsy and wreckless. When you expose yourself like that, you kind of get what you have coming to you.

If a boxer were to go into the ring and not put his hands up and then gets punched in the face, you wouldnt see people complaining.

But since its a QB you have this big uproar from people who think Orton should be wearing a skirt.

broncohead
08-31-2010, 12:11 PM
There's another side to it: Champ is a defensive player. He has been through
extensive training and has years of experience in tackling.

Orton is a QB. QBs do not receive extensive training in tackling. He was doing
what he could to protect himself, which is what QBs should do. It was awfully
poor tackling form - I'll grant that. But it was not dirty play. Orton is not that
kind of player. Harrison, however, is.

To try to implicate Orton in this is asinine.

-----

Not saying Orton tried to hurt Harrison but that type of tackle does cause injury weather he tried to or not. I could see Harrison thinking you wanna go low like that... fine. I don't see any wrong doing by either player. Bad tackling form usually ends up bad for the tackler and it did somewhat in this case. Glad nobody got injured

Nomad
08-31-2010, 12:14 PM
There's another side to it: Champ is a defensive player. He has been through
extensive training and has years of experience in tackling.

Orton is a QB. QBs do not receive extensive training in tackling. He was doing
what he could to protect himself, which is what QBs should do. It was awfully
poor tackling form - I'll grant that. But it was not dirty play. Orton is not that
kind of player. Harrison, however, is.

To try to implicate Orton in this is asinine.

-----

Ridiculous to say Orton was going for Harrison's knees! I believe Orton knew he made a mistake and was protecting himself from the impact by turning himself away!! Like you say, it looked like inexperience to me!!

topscribe
08-31-2010, 12:18 PM
Not saying Orton tried to hurt Harrison but that type of tackle does cause injury weather he tried to or not. I could see Harrison thinking you wanna go low like that... fine. I don't see any wrong doing by either player. Bad tackling form usually ends up bad for the tackler and it did somewhat in this case. Glad nobody got injured

I understand. Sorry I inferred your message improperly. I still don't hold that
Harrison's intent was anything but dirty, but you are right in that Orton's
tackling form did get him into trouble . . .

-----

broncohead
08-31-2010, 12:23 PM
I understand. Sorry I inferred your message improperly. I still don't hold that
Harrison's intent was anything but dirty, but you are right in that Orton's
tackling form did get him into trouble . . .

-----

Wouldn't doubt Harrison wanted to put the smack down on Orton but to me thats football. QBs just dont play with that intensity but there are a lot of LBers who do and most would love to have a shot like that

topscribe
08-31-2010, 12:28 PM
Wouldn't doubt Harrison wanted to put the smack down on Orton but to me thats football. QBs just dont play with that intensity but there are a lot of LBers who do and most would love to have a shot like that

Well, to a point, yes. And that is where one determines that a shot will be
returned, one way or another. As I mentioned earlier, that may be what Orton
was implying. It is interesting that, of all the to-do that has arisen about the
issue, one person who hasn't been complaining has been Orton himself . . .

-----

I Eat Staples
08-31-2010, 12:34 PM
It's actually totally the right thing to do if it's really close to just go ahead and call it a catch and a fumble, because that is challengeable. If you just call it incomplete, it can't be challenged. By calling it a catch and fumble, it results in better chance of getting the call right in the end.

You're right, but that play wasn't close. And it was preseason.


I meant a fight in life.. not in football. My point is that not everything that is within the boundaries of the "rules" is considered sportsmanlike. Dude had a perfect opportunity to scoop and score, but instead, he buried his helmet into a quarterback's spine. That is unsportsmanlike, unnecessary, and plain disgusting. Dude should be thinking about scoring for his team, not severing the quarterback's spine. But I wouldn't expect anything different from a piece of trash like Harrison.

Then that is against the law. It's called assault. It's against the law to hit people, period.

And Harrison couldn't score. In fact, the hit could only help him gain extra yards.


Really? So say hypothetically we're down 5 to the Chargers late in the game and have to win to make the playoffs and Rivers is the only person between DJ and the endzone. You'd rather him just deliver a shot a Rivers than hurdle him and go in for the score?

Now if you have the chance to put a clean shot on the QB and you don't have a chance at scoring anyway, I'm all for it. But when you could easily hurdle or sidestep him to get more yards, diving at him for the sake of being a tough guy is just stupid.

Harrison couldn't score on the play. He hit the tackler, falling forward for extra yardage. It's how ball carriers are supposed to run.


Ortons tackle was clumsy and wreckless. When you expose yourself like that, you kind of get what you have coming to you.

If a boxer were to go into the ring and not put his hands up and then gets punched in the face, you wouldnt see people complaining.

But since its a QB you have this big uproar from people who think Orton should be wearing a skirt.

I agree.

This discussion is stupid. People are arguing that it's a cheap shot for a ball carrier to hit a tackler, simply because that tackler was a QB trying to tackle on a fumble return. This is an embarrassment to our fan base. Football is a rough sport for god's sake, and there's already too many penalties that are making it a ***** sport. Late hits are wrong. But during a play, no amount of roughness is unnecessary. If you can't take it, toughen up.

And QBs should not be treated differently than other players. They play a position like everyone else. The rules that protect QBs and receivers are already BS as it is.

Lonestar
08-31-2010, 12:38 PM
I have seen Champ tackle like that but he wraps up, keeps his head up and has a good form tackle which doesn't cause injury. Orton lowered his head and tried leading with his shoulder below his knee which does cause knee/ankle injuries all the time. The way Orton did it and Champ does it is completely different.

Champ is an all pro CB certainly a first ballot HOF CB he has played defense all of his life.


Orton is a QB that gets like 3 minutes a year in learning the finer points of tackling.

HUGE difference.

BroncoNut
08-31-2010, 12:42 PM
Not saying Orton tried to hurt Harrison but that type of tackle does cause injury weather he tried to or not. I could see Harrison thinking you wanna go low like that... fine. I don't see any wrong doing by either player. Bad tackling form usually ends up bad for the tackler and it did somewhat in this case. Glad nobody got injured

yeah, I was thinkin of Favre last season in a blocking situation ( I think). It was a cheap shot by Brett, he threw his back into it. very similsar to what Orton did.

broncohead
08-31-2010, 12:51 PM
Champ is an all pro CB certainly a first ballot HOF CB he has played defense all of his life.


Orton is a QB that gets like 3 minutes a year in learning the finer points of tackling.

HUGE difference.

I agree not trying to compare the 2 in terms of tackling skills but bad form can often times end up in getting lit up and thats what happened.

rcsodak
08-31-2010, 12:51 PM
I don't see how Harrison did anything different then what Orton tried doing. Orton could have tried to form tackle but he went low trying to take out his legs below the knees. Players get hurt that way all the time. He wanted to go low so Harrison made him pay for it. Backfired on Orton if you ask me.
I hope you're kidding. A qb 'form tackling' an lb? LMAO! How many reps do you think qb's take in tackling practiices? If an lb sees nothing between him and the endzone but the qb do you really think he's going to try and avoid him? Thats why you see them trying to force them to the sideline or make a halfassed whiff at them. Or do as Orton and go low with help around him.
I can see it now. Brees trying to 'form tackle' a 260# lb with a full head of steam......reminds me of a bug hitting the windshield at 75mph. FRAZIER IS DOWN! LOL
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Sconnie Bronco
08-31-2010, 12:53 PM
I hope you're kidding. A qb 'form tackling' an lb? LMAO! How many reps do you think qb's take in tackling practiices? If an lb sees nothing between him and the endzone but the qb do you really think he's going to try and avoid him? Thats why you see them trying to force them to the sideline or make a halfassed whiff at them. Or do as Orton and go low with help around him.
I can see it now. Brees trying to 'form tackle' a 260# lb with a full head of steam......reminds me of a bug hitting the windshield at 75mph. FRAZIER IS DOWN! LOL
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Be that is it may, its not Harrison's fault that Orton sucks at tackling.

KCL
08-31-2010, 12:53 PM
When the Chiefs played the Broncos in Denver...one of the picks that DJ ran back for a TD...Orton tried to tackle him and he got laid out...the look on his face..don't know if it's on Youtube or not but he did try to stop him from getting into the EZ.

broncohead
08-31-2010, 12:55 PM
I hope you're kidding. A qb 'form tackling' an lb? LMAO! How many reps do you think qb's take in tackling practiices? If an lb sees nothing between him and the endzone but the qb do you really think he's going to try and avoid him? Thats why you see them trying to force them to the sideline or make a halfassed whiff at them. Or do as Orton and go low with help around him.
I can see it now. Brees trying to 'form tackle' a 260# lb with a full head of steam......reminds me of a bug hitting the windshield at 75mph. FRAZIER IS DOWN! LOL
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Just saying he could have done something different then exposing himself like that. Raarely you see someone get hurt trying to form tackle. Not saying it would have worked

NightTrainLayne
08-31-2010, 01:13 PM
What he did is what any coach would want him to do. He plays like a badass, he didn't violate any rules and it wasn't poor sportsmanship. He is just a good football player who happens to play a very violent game.


Since when does attempting to hurt someone purposefully not count as poor sportsmanship?

Buff
08-31-2010, 02:10 PM
Since when does attempting to hurt someone purposefully not count as poor sportsmanship?

Football is a violent game. He was the ball carrier. As long as he does it within the limitations of the rulebook, there is nothing unsportmanlike about it. In football you break the will of your opponent with physicality and brutality, not by avoiding contact.

Plus, it's not Harrison's fault Orton turned his back and assumed the fetal position while attempting to make a tackle.

topscribe
08-31-2010, 02:11 PM
Football is a violent game. He was the ball carrier. As long as he does it within the limitations of the rulebook, there is nothing unsportmanlike about it. In football you break the will of your opponent with physicality and brutality, not by avoiding contact.

Plus, it's not Harrison's fault Orton turned his back and assumed the fetal position while attempting to make a tackle.

Oh, good grief. Master of superfluity . . . :rolleyes:

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BroncoNut
08-31-2010, 02:12 PM
Football is a violent game. He was the ball carrier. As long as he does it within the limitations of the rulebook, there is nothing unsportmanlike about it. In football you break the will of your opponent with physicality and brutality, not by avoiding contact.

Plus, it's not Harrison's fault Orton turned his back and assumed the fetal position while attempting to make a tackle.

Although cold, calloused, and downright chilling, I tend to agree with this more than NTL's take. If NTL is offended or hurt by this in anyway, might I suggest he become a fan of competitive crochet.

Northman
08-31-2010, 02:15 PM
Although cold, calloused, and downright chilling, I tend to agree with this more than NTL's take. If NTL is offended or hurt by this in anyway, might I suggest he become a fan of competitive crochet.


Im not sure what is worse right now. Those who cry about how physical the NFL is or those who think that tackling isnt important for DB's. :lol:

rcsodak
08-31-2010, 03:52 PM
if you can't stand the contact, drop the helmet and grap a tutu for pucks sake.

That's what the CFL is for.

BroncoWave
08-31-2010, 03:56 PM
Im not sure what is worse right now. Those who cry about how physical the NFL is or those who think that tackling isnt important for DB's. :lol:

Who is crying about how physical the NFL is?

rcsodak
08-31-2010, 03:57 PM
Harrison couldn't score on the play. He hit the tackler, falling forward for extra yardage. It's how ball carriers are supposed to run.


Wow, really? Evidently there are 2 different videos, because I sure didn't watch the one where Harrison was "falling forward". :rolleyes:

He deliberately and maliciously drove his shoulder/head into Orton's back/head.

No ands/ifs/buts about it.

Factoid.

Truth.

No Spin.

Cryin' if lyin'.

KCL
08-31-2010, 03:59 PM
Who is crying about how physical the NFL is?

Orton....:confused:


:laugh:

topscribe
08-31-2010, 04:01 PM
Orton....:confused:


:laugh:

Sorry, but he's probably just about the only one who isn't whining about it.

Now, the squaws . . . *looks around* . . . oh, this isn't Smack, is it? :look:



Damn.



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rcsodak
08-31-2010, 04:02 PM
Be that is it may, its not Harrison's fault that Orton sucks at tackling.

Yes, of course, you're right.

So let's have an NFL QB have a career ending injury simply because the dirty LB didn't think he was utilizing a 'form tackle'.

Gotcha.

:coffee:

claymore
08-31-2010, 04:04 PM
Wow, really? Evidently there are 2 different videos, because I sure didn't watch the one where Harrison was "falling forward". :rolleyes:

He deliberately and maliciously drove his shoulder/head into Orton's back/head.

No ands/ifs/buts about it.

Factoid.

Truth.

No Spin.

Cryin' if lyin'.

At about the 10 second mark they are both clearly falling at the same time. Going that fast Harrison braced for the impact... like anyone would. He led with his shoulder. I really dont know what else he could have done.

Orton's very poor atempt at a tackle is the only thing at fault. He flung himself on the ground in the way of a train. It hurt, as to be expected.

pEDzDCCvhCo

KCL
08-31-2010, 04:05 PM
Sorry, but he's probably just about the only one who isn't whining about it.

Now, the squaws . . . *looks around* . . . oh, this isn't Smack, is it? :look:



Damn.



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What about the squaws? I mean the Chiefs....:lol:

topscribe
08-31-2010, 04:08 PM
At about the 10 second mark they are both clearly falling at the same time. Going that fast Harrison braced for the impact... like anyone would. He led with his shoulder. I really dont know what else he could have done.

Orton's very poor atempt at a tackle is the only thing at fault. He flung himself on the ground in the way of a train. It hurt, as to be expected.

pEDzDCCvhCo

I saw Orton later writing down a note: "Stay out of the way of trains."

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rcsodak
08-31-2010, 04:08 PM
Just saying he could have done something different then exposing himself like that. Raarely you see someone get hurt trying to form tackle. Not saying it would have worked

MOST people, when they see a Grizzly coming at them, tend to hit the ground and curl up in the fetal position. They don't stand their ground and look for a way to tackle it.

Common sense.

Same goes in the NFL.

You don't see many rb's stand toe-to-toe with rush LB's on the way to the QB. MOST go low.

Funny....you don't tend to see the LB dive at the rb and spear him in the back/head.

I can't believe the amount of people on here actually backing the pos harrison on this.

I bet it the QB was ******, you'd be screaming a different tune.

Just sayin'. :coffee:

Northman
08-31-2010, 04:08 PM
At about the 10 second mark they are both clearly falling at the same time. Going that fast Harrison braced for the impact... like anyone would. He led with his shoulder. I really dont know what else he could have done.

Orton's very poor atempt at a tackle is the only thing at fault. He flung himself on the ground in the way of a train. It hurt, as to be expected.

pEDzDCCvhCo

So much for the "helmet" in the back. Harrison lead with his shoulder. The crying about this is silly.

topscribe
08-31-2010, 04:09 PM
What about the squaws? I mean the Chiefs....:lol:

Dang it, gal, you take all the fun out of it.

When I bait you, you're supposed to get your feathers ruffled . . .

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KCL
08-31-2010, 04:11 PM
Dang it, gal, you take all the fun out of it.

When I bait you, you're supposed to get your feathers ruffled . . .

-----

Ahhhh sorry about that...I'll try harder next time...:D

Ravage!!!
08-31-2010, 04:11 PM
I just don't see the dirty part. Hell, Harrison nearly turns his back enough to hit Orton with the backside of his shoulder. Where is the 'dirty' in this play?

Honestly.... to me, this sounds like a complaint from someone that either doesn't like the Steelers, doesn't like Harrison, or both. Thats usually where these kind of complaints come from, because in any other circumstance, there is no way this is considered a "dirty" play in the least.

claymore
08-31-2010, 04:11 PM
So much for the "helmet" in the back. Harrison lead with his shoulder. The crying about this is silly.

I saw it during the game, and was genuinley worried about Orton, but not once did I think it was dirty.

If anything I thought that it might endear Orton as a leader, but he shouldnt risk himself during a meaningless game.

KCL
08-31-2010, 04:13 PM
I just don't see the dirty part. Hell, Harrison nearly turns his back enough to hit Orton with the backside of his shoulder. Where is the 'dirty' in this play?

Honestly.... to me, this sounds like a complaint from someone that either doesn't like the Steelers, doesn't like Harrison, or both. Thats usually where these kind of complaints come from, because in any other circumstance, there is no way this is considered a "dirty" play in the least.

You must be talking about rcsodak....;)

Northman
08-31-2010, 04:14 PM
I saw it during the game, and was genuinley worried about Orton, but not once did I think it was dirty.



Nor did i. And again i have to state that if Doom had done the exact same thing to Manning that this board would be defending left and right. Our Qb made a bad decision in preseason and it almost cost him, so what. Any defender is licking his chops to lay a hit on the opposing QB. I guess its a good thing people didnt see how i played defense because i was a nasty little cuss.

rcsodak
08-31-2010, 04:16 PM
Football is a violent game. He was the ball carrier. As long as he does it within the limitations of the rulebook, there is nothing unsportmanlike about it. In football you break the will of your opponent with physicality and brutality, not by avoiding contact.

Plus, it's not Harrison's fault Orton turned his back and assumed the fetal position while attempting to make a tackle.

Wow. You're showing your naivety, buff.

When Bailey goes low, is he facing the ball carrier? No. Reason? The body/joints move better in certain directions when meeting blunt force.

Plus, ever see a foot go through a face mask? It ain't purty.

Ever been kicked in the crotch, even when wearing a cup? It isn't a force field!

topscribe
08-31-2010, 04:20 PM
I just don't see the dirty part. Hell, Harrison nearly turns his back enough to hit Orton with the backside of his shoulder. Where is the 'dirty' in this play?

Honestly.... to me, this sounds like a complaint from someone that either doesn't like the Steelers, doesn't like Harrison, or both. Thats usually where these kind of complaints come from, because in any other circumstance, there is no way this is considered a "dirty" play in the least.


I saw it during the game, and was genuinley worried about Orton, but not once did I think it was dirty.

If anything I thought that it might endear Orton as a leader, but he shouldnt risk himself during a meaningless game.

It was an unnecessary hit by a POS for whom I have no use. But I also have no
use for Orton's decision to try to "tackle" Harrison.

Orton made no excuses. I heard three comments about it from him:

1. "He hit me a good one, that's for sure."
2. "I don't know whether I hit him, or he hit me." (Duh)
3. "If that's they way he wants to play, then that's the way he wants to play."

I admire Orton that he didn't complain. In fact, I caught between the lines that
he may have been saying, "That's fine - we'll see them again." (Just a guess.)

At the same time, why didn't Orton simply push Harrison out of bounds? The
guy was already there. I hope Kyle sees that from the film. I also hope that
McDaniels has already given Kyle one of those "No more 'my bad' " lectures.

Classless move by Harrison. Dumb move by Orton. But I will say this: If you
don't want to get hit, don't play football. Simple.

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KCL
08-31-2010, 04:20 PM
It's football...you know a contact sport...where bodies touch...North I believe you're correct that if Doom had done this to Manning or Brady or some QB...The board would be lit up with props for him.