Who will win Kuper or Harris?

[Broncos r life]

Who do you think will win the RT position battle? I disagree with this guy completely about Ryan Harris but here is some anaylsis.

http://broncomadness.com/2008/07/20/training-camp-position-battle-kuper-vs-harris/

[kmonty]

His analysis on Harris is all fandom, so take that for what it's worth. Looking at the situation objectively, I still think Harris will win the job.

[Lonestar]

lets hope that the best man wins the job outright and is not influenced by golden domers in any way..

[turftoad]

lets hope that the best man wins the job outright and is not influenced by golden domers in any way..

This one is going to be fun to watch.

[Jwalk - JayCutty6Goes - CasinoRoyal]

Niether. I think its Erik Pears job. But if i was forced to pick i would say Harris because i liek Kuper at guard.

[Requiem / The Dagda]

They should play Kuper at guard and play Harris at tackle. That'd be the smart thing to do.

[underrated29]

I didnt read the article, but i think harris harris harris harris harris wins the job.

Its also what i would prefer.

[Broncos r life]

Looks like the consensus is Harris.

[Dean]

My money is on Kuper. He was listed as the starter so barring a great training camp by Harris there won't be a change. I don't see a fasting (for religious reasons) offensive tackle as being strong enough to hold up. Kuper's combine numbers were definitely good enough to play right tackle and he has a mean streak. I like that in a player.:salute:

[broncofanatic1987]

Niether. I think its Erik Pears job. But if i was forced to pick i would say Harris because i liek Kuper at guard.

Pears is competing for the left tackle job and some people think he's a better left tackle than he is a right tackle.

Last year people were convinced that Kuper was going to be the starting right guard only to see him lose out to Montrae Holland. He only started at left guard because Tom Nalen got hurt which led to Chris Meyers moving over from left guard to center. So basically, last year, Kuper was the fourth best guard on the team. Hamilton and Holland would have been the starters if Hamilton hadn't gotten hurt. Meyers took over the starting job at left guard when Hamilton went down and would have stayed there if Nalen hadn't gotten hurt. Kuper must have played well enough though to make the coaches think that he might be good enough to start somewhere on line. Though the fact that he's competing for the right tackle spot rather than one of the guard positions might mean they think he isn't suited for the interior of the line where he would have to take on defensive tackles and inside linebackers. The move to the tackle position could mean that they think he's better of taking on defensive ends and outside linebackers.

From what I understand, Harris' skill set is suited for the left tackle position as well as his physical dimensions. That doesn't mean he hasn't developed into an all around lineman though. He's had a full season to improve his strength and work on his technique. I would not be surprised if he won the the right tackle job.

I don't think the coaches are likely to move Pears back to the right tackle spot unless they are convinced that neither Kuper nor Harris will do any better than he did last year. I think if they were looking to keep Pears in the starting line up, he would be battling Kuper for the right tackle job instead of Harris.

[Jwalk - JayCutty6Goes - CasinoRoyal]

Truste me barring injury? There is no competition at LT. Shanny has stamped Clady name on that spot from day1. But i didnt like alot of what is een with Pears trying to block speedy rushers. I think hed be far better at RT. But i like Harris also. I guess the best man will win the job. But there is no competition at LT because Clady is starting from day 1

[omac]

At nfl.com, they have Kuper backing up Hamilton at LG, and Harris backing up Pears at RG. At other sites, they have them at other positions.

I'm not too confident with Harris; he had a back injury in college, and again in his first season in the pros. Forget starting, I'd like to see if he can be injury-free for a full season. I don't think he'll start, whether at guard or tackle. I see him as a rotational player this season.

[Timmy!]

I'm an ND fan, and I doubt Harris will start this year. He has to show he his healthy before he wins the starter job. He was dominant his junior year, and was not the same player (injury had something to do with it) his senior year, and as of right now, he has done NOTHING in the pros. The preseason will determine starter at RT, and I wouldn't be surprised if the job was still on the line heading into the 3rd and 4th game.

[Jwalk - JayCutty6Goes - CasinoRoyal]

That is the thing, if Harris is healthy hes damn sure the best guy for the job. He has had a whole year to rehab and get healthy though so im guessing he should be ready. Didnt they say if he had came out hs junior year he would have been a first rounder? Because i recall reading that he was dominant his junior year also.

[Retired_Member_001]

Niether. I think its Erik Pears job. But if i was forced to pick i would say Harris because i liek Kuper at guard.

May I ask, is your Erik Pears prediction because you actually think it will happen? Or because you think Erik Pears can do the job?

If I say so, Erik Pears plays like an Old Lady who's been kicked in her metal help. He gets thrown around by more physical defensive lineman. Take away his amazing performances at LT in 2006 and only look at his full season at RT in 2007. He was horrible last season, not deserving of starting on most teams. I'd take Harris, Kuper and even Champ Bailey over Erik Pears at RT.

[Jwalk - JayCutty6Goes - CasinoRoyal]

I didnt even know Erik Pears was playing RT last year....I thought he stepped in at LT when lepsis got hurt....

[Retired_Member_001]

I didnt even know Erik Pears was playing RT last year....I thought he stepped in at LT when lepsis got hurt....

Matt Lepsis played a full 16 game season at LT last season.

Erik Pears played RT.

TWO seasons ago is when Erik Pears stepped in for Lepsis.

[Jwalk - JayCutty6Goes - CasinoRoyal]

Matt Lepsis played a full 16 game season at LT last season.

Erik Pears played RT.

TWO seasons ago is when Erik Pears stepped in for Lepsis.

:laugh: Really? Damn i smoke too much.

[Jwalk - JayCutty6Goes - CasinoRoyal]

I guess i totally move on when the seasons are over. But with that being said i dont recall Cutler too many shots front side. Those blind side shots were teh crucial ones. Coming from the LT spot.

[topscribe]

My money is on Kuper. He was listed as the starter so barring a great training camp by Harris there won't be a change. I don't see a fasting (for religious reasons) offensive tackle as being strong enough to hold up. Kuper's combine numbers were definitely good enough to play right tackle and he has a mean streak. I like that in a player.:salute:

I really don't believe Harris' religious fasting is any kind of factor in his strength.
It isn't like the go without food for days at a time. They can ingest food during
those times. It just has to be regulated to certain times, as I understand.

My problem with Harris at RT is that I believe he is a LT. RT is more about
power, while LT is more about reaction and foot speed . . . although one needs
a little of both at each position. While only those two are out there, I have to
favor Kuper for those reasons.

I wonder, however, whether Pears should still be over at RT and Kuper still in
at guard. I know some thought Pears stunk out there, but we have to
understand that he was in his first year in the pros at RT. With those
considerations, I thought he accounted well for himself, even though,
admittedly, I did my share of complaining about him last year.

I just think Kuper should be fighting it out with Hamilton at LG, while Pears
and Harris are going at it at RT, and the loser at RT will provide excellent
depth at both tackle positions.

But then, maybe that's why I'm not a coach . . .

-----

[Inkana7]

Okay. From reading this thread I need to say a few things.

1) Erik Pears frigging sucks no matter what position he plays.

2) Ryan Harris is a barely 300 pound LT with a back problem. I don't see that translating to RT very well.

3) Kuper played tackle in college and has great measurables(he actually has long arms, not short arms like that retarded blog stated). He's athletic, has good technique, and I think he'll win the spot.

4) Also, I read somewhere that Harris gave up fasting for Ramadan a long time ago.

[Requiem / The Dagda]

Okay. From reading this thread I need to say a few things.

1) Erik Pears frigging sucks no matter what position he plays.

2) Ryan Harris is a barely 300 pound LT with a back problem. I don't see that translating to RT very well.

3) Kuper played tackle in college and has great measurables(he actually has long arms, not short arms like that retarded blog stated). He's athletic, has good technique, and I think he'll win the spot.

4) Also, I read somewhere that Harris gave up fasting for Ramadan a long time ago.

(A) You're absolutely correct on #1.

(B) Harris' ideal spot is LT, or perhaps LG -- but he can play tackle as well. Strength obviously will be the issue at RT; but if you can play LT -- you should be good enough to play RT. That's the rule of thumb.

(C) Kuper can play RT no doubt, but I'm sick of moving around players. We don't need him to become our offensive DJ Williams. Keep him at guard, stick him there and let him grow into an Faneca type player. He's more than capable of adjusting to other positions, but why go through the headache?

We have the potential to have an awesome offensive line with LT, G, C, and RT set for the future if they set it up according to the correct positions they should be playing. Clady, Kuper (either guard spot), Lichtensteiger and Harris. The only thing we would be lacking is another long-term guard, unless we're okay with Holland being that guy. Shit, move Kuper to RG; put Harris at LG -- and just toss someone, anyone besides Erik Pears at tackle.

If Harris proves he's worthy, and I believe he will, he should be on the field. Kuper should too. Maximize the potential (if deserved) with your younger players and you won't have to worry about it for a decade (hopefully) -- that's just my thoughts though. I'm just really hoping Harris and Kuper both earn starting jobs.

[Dean]

I really don't believe Harris' religious fasting is any kind of factor in his strength.
It isn't like the go without food for days at a time. They can ingest food during
those times. It just has to be regulated to certain times, as I understand.

I have a good background in chemistry but not so much in biochemistry. As I remember there are various energy release cycles but for the immediate high energy release like required in football, the ATP/ADP cycle is the major pathway.

Fat can't be rapidly used by skeletal muscles and this is even compounded by low oxygen levels like in intense energy demands of moving 300 pound men that can benchpress a small car.:D

The tradition of eating only after sunset and before sunrise IMO would lead to ATP shortages late in the game. When the time lag from breakfast is coupled with the excitement, warm-up, and the intense physical activity during a game the supply of ATP would deplete faster than it would replenish.

The glycogen formed by insuline I believe is stored in the liver and is an intermediate energy cycle- not like ATP. If I remember correctly, it will convert into glucose 1-phosphate (?) releasing energy in the decomposition of the glycogen but the sugar can be oxidized to release even more energy. This sounds good but it is not as immediate an energy release as the normal ATP. I think this would result in a energy low much like you get a few hours after you consume the energy drinks that are popular today.


My problem with Harris at RT is that I believe he is a LT. RT is more about
power, while LT is more about reaction and foot speed . . . although one needs
a little of both at each position. While only those two are out there, I have to
favor Kuper for those reasons.

I wonder, however, whether Pears should still be over at RT and Kuper still in
at guard. I know some thought Pears stunk out there, but we have to
understand that he was in his first year in the pros at RT. With those
considerations, I thought he accounted well for himself, even though,
admittedly, I did my share of complaining about him last year.

I thought that Pears played much better the year before last (LT) than he did this last year (RT). He had help from the tight end or chip blocks by the backs at both positions but to me he really struggled this last year especially the last two games where Graham was out.


I just think Kuper should be fighting it out with Hamilton at LG, while Pears
and Harris are going at it at RT, and the loser at RT will provide excellent
depth at both tackle positions.

I think that Kuper would be a great left guard this year as well. However, I believe that Hamilton is a better LG than either Pears or Harris is at playing as a a tackle. If that is the case, I want the best 11 players on the field.


But then, maybe that's why I'm not a coach . . .
-----

After this year, I may not be either. I am starting to look at all I give up to coach. It will be a tough decision.

[Broncos r life]

Okay. From reading this thread I need to say a few things.

1) Erik Pears frigging sucks no matter what position he plays.

2) Ryan Harris is a barely 300 pound LT with a back problem. I don't see that translating to RT very well.

3) Kuper played tackle in college and has great measurables(he actually has long arms, not short arms like that retarded blog stated). He's athletic, has good technique, and I think he'll win the spot.

4) Also, I read somewhere that Harris gave up fasting for Ramadan a long time ago.

Right on the money man! :beer:

[PatricktheDookie]

Kuper

[Lonestar]

My money is on Kuper. He was listed as the starter so barring a great training camp by Harris there won't be a change. I don't see a fasting (for religious reasons) offensive tackle as being strong enough to hold up. Kuper's combine numbers were definitely good enough to play right tackle and he has a mean streak. I like that in a player.:salute:


This is the first time I've heard about fasting where is this coming from..

[dekers]

it does not matter who starts this year. I am just excited about the depth we have on the OL this year. If They can all stay healthy then all of the injures we had last year will turn out to be blessing in disguise. The younger guys all got some experience and playing time , and that can help us this year.

[atwater27]

This one is going to be fun to watch.

Same with McKinley and Thomas at DT.

[dekers]

Same with McKinley and Thomas at DT.

Yeah am pulling for Thomas but it will be fun. Come on training camp.

[lex]

I expect Kuper to win out on this...at least I hope he does. If he is strong enough to play guard (as he did last year), Im much more optimistic about him than Harris. Plus, Kupers measurables at his combine point to him being agile.


JR, Harris is a muslim and fasts around the fall...this was an item of interest last year. He is/was light to begin with and couple that with fasting and people were interested in this.

[Jwalk - JayCutty6Goes - CasinoRoyal]

Hey the month before he goes on his muslim diet just tell him to gain 15 pounds so when he drops that other 10-15 it will balance out lol.

[Kaylore]

Kuper will win. Harris looked weak sauce last year. Apparently it was because of a needed surgery on his spine which he received. Even if he's recovered, he is more of a left tackle and has no starting experience. I don't have faith in a guy coming of back surgery with no experience supplanting a starter. The Broncos hate playing guys with no experience. If Kuper wins the spot then we'll have two 300lb guys at both tackle positions. That will be a welcome change. :D

[Broncos r life]

Exactly Kaylor!!!!!!!

[Lonestar]

I expect Kuper to win out on this...at least I hope he does. If he is strong enough to play guard (as he did last year), Im much more optimistic about him than Harris. Plus, Kupers measurables at his combine point to him being agile.


JR, Harris is a muslim and fasts around the fall...this was an item of interest last year. He is/was light to begin with and couple that with fasting and people were interested in this.

Thanks for the info I did not see this tidbit.

Lets see, a muslim that went to a Catholic university and played football in the fall and we drafted this clown, that had a bad back?.

Yep that fits the mold of a mikey DAFTEE..

[Lonestar]

Hey the month before he goes on his muslim diet just tell him to gain 15 pounds so when he drops that other 10-15 it will balance out lol.

what kind of weight is he going to able to put on?

Mostly fat and that if you read Coach Deans post is not used as well into the body as food ingested prior to working out or playing on game day.. Same would apply to muscle tissue if he could put on an additional 10-15 pound of muscle.

This guy is in the wrong business.. He needs to be able to put nutrients into his body during the day to replace what his body is using to do his job..

[Fan in Exile]

Jr

Harris isn't the only Muslim player and the others have been able to handle it, so that alone doesn't make him a DAFTEE. At least wait until training camp to see how that goes.

[Lonestar]

Jr

Harris isn't the only Muslim player and the others have been able to handle it, so that alone doesn't make him a DAFTEE. At least wait until training camp to see how that goes.

NO but being injured before the draft certainly does not help his cause.. Also knowing he is a devout muslim should have even made this stick out farther as a huge risk..

At this point I can't even say I'm disappointed in mikey just more of his normal decision making IMO.

[topscribe]

NO but being injured before the draft certainly does not help his cause.. Also knowing he is a devout muslim should have even made this stick out farther as a huge risk..

At this point I can't even say I'm disappointed in mikey just more of his normal decision making IMO.

JR, you've already declared Harris a bust and thrown him on the scrap heap.
I don't see a problem at all because, during his "fast," he can eat to his
heart's (or stomach's) content early in the morning and in the evening after
sunset, as I understand. Hamza Abdullah also does that fast, and I neither
saw nor read anything regarding any problems he might have had with his
weight, and he's out there as a safety, running wide open around the field.

I am concerned about Harris' back, but his diet is probably better than the
average player's. After all, he doesn't eat pork or seafood: two items that
are not good for the human body, anyway.

-----

[topscribe]

I have a good background in chemistry but not so much in biochemistry. As I remember there are various energy release cycles but for the immediate high energy release like required in football, the ATP/ADP cycle is the major pathway.

Fat can't be rapidly used by skeletal muscles and this is even compounded by low oxygen levels like in intense energy demands of moving 300 pound men that can benchpress a small car.:D

The tradition of eating only after sunset and before sunrise IMO would lead to ATP shortages late in the game. When the time lag from breakfast is coupled with the excitement, warm-up, and the intense physical activity during a game the supply of ATP would deplete faster than it would replenish.

The glycogen formed by insuline I believe is stored in the liver and is an intermediate energy cycle- not like ATP. If I remember correctly, it will convert into glucose 1-phosphate (?) releasing energy in the decomposition of the glycogen but the sugar can be oxidized to release even more energy. This sounds good but it is not as immediate an energy release as the normal ATP. I think this would result in a energy low much like you get a few hours after you consume the energy drinks that are popular today.

That all seems pretty accurate, although it has been many years since I
have studied this, so I would have to bone up before I could discuss it
intelligently with you.

However, in real practice, I am aware of nothing coming out about that
when he was in college, nor for Abdullah, either in college or last year. I
just don't believe it is much of an issue.

-----

[Lonestar]

JR, you've already declared Harris a bust and thrown him on the scrap heap.
I don't see a problem at all because, during his "fast," he can eat to his
heart's (or stomach's) content early in the morning and in the evening after
sunset, as I understand. Hamza Abdullah also does that fast, and I neither
saw nor read anything regarding any problems he might have had with his
weight, and he's out there as a safety, running wide open around the field.

I am concerned about Harris' back, but his diet is probably better than the
average player's. After all, he doesn't eat pork or seafood: two items that
are not good for the human body, anyway.

-----

Seafood not good for the body?

Most health care professionals swear that most sea food if not polluted is better than almost anything for the protein essential for good muscle grwoth....

[topscribe]

Seafood not good for the body?

Most health care professionals swear that most sea food if not polluted is better than almost anything for the protein essential for good muscle grwoth....

Don't want to get into that here.

Email me if you want clarification. That would probably be best.

-----

[broncofanatic1987]

I could have sworn that someone mentioned that Harris doesn't fast for Ramadan. I'm pretty sure I remember reading that somewhere also. Maybe when I have time, I'll do some research on that. Whatever the case, just because he's a muslim it doesn't mean he can't be a good football player.

We don't know if his back will continue to be a problem. I think we'll have to wait to hear the training camp reports before we start using his back as an excuse to doubt his abilities.

[Retired_Member_001]

JR, you've already declared Harris a bust and thrown him on the scrap heap.
I don't see a problem at all because, during his "fast," he can eat to his
heart's (or stomach's) content early in the morning and in the evening after
sunset, as I understand. Hamza Abdullah also does that fast, and I neither
saw nor read anything regarding any problems he might have had with his
weight, and he's out there as a safety, running wide open around the field.

I am concerned about Harris' back, but his diet is probably better than the
average player's. After all, he doesn't eat pork or seafood: two items that
are not good for the human body, anyway.

-----

That's pretty much it. Muslims don't just stop eating, they do eat but at a certain time. Before anyone doubts him like that, I think it would be best if people actually understood what fasting is before doubting him. He has probably gained weight (gainING weight) since last season as well so this shouldn't be a major factor.

I am worried about Harris at RT because of his lack of drive, however, I do believe if given a fair shot, he could do a decent job for us.

By the way, Seafood is supposed to be REALLY good for you. Scientists can prove that Seafood protects the Human body from many things.

[topscribe]

That's pretty much it. Muslims don't just stop eating, they do eat but at a certain time. Before anyone doubts him like that, I think it would be best if people actually understood what fasting is before doubting him. He has probably gained weight (gainING weight) since last season as well so this shouldn't be a major factor.

I am worried about Harris at RT because of his lack of drive, however, I do believe if given a fair shot, he could do a decent job for us.

By the way, Seafood is supposed to be REALLY good for you. Scientists can prove that Seafood protects the Human body from many things.

See Post #41.

-----

[Inkana7]

Harris doesn't fast. He stopped doing that in college.

[Lonestar]

Harris doesn't fast. He stopped doing that in college.

for his professional sake I hope your correct..

[Dean]

The combine stats for the two are almost identical. Their 40, 20, and 10 yard times are almost identical. Kuper holds a slim 2 bench press lead while Harris is .10 second faster in the 20 yard shuttle. Kuper holds a .19 second lead in the cone drill and has a 4.5 inch lead in the verticle jump.

Which one of these two that starts will more likey be decided upon who has the best blocking technique and who doesn't mind getting his hands dirty.

I think that the starter will be Kuper but the competion should make camp interesting.

[Ziggy]

I'm going with Kuper. He has a mean streak, and a bit more strength than Harris. I love the way that this line is getting more physical, strong, and athletic. I hope the FO keeps bringing these guys in.