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Denver Native (Carol)
08-22-2010, 05:16 PM
http://blogs.denverpost.com/broncos/2010/08/22/what-preseason-says-about-2010-broncos/4651/

Ordinarily, I have a pretty good feel about what kind of team the Broncos will have heading into training camp.

This year, training camp is finished and here’s what I always tell people who ask what kind of team I think the Broncos will have this year: Anywhere from 6-10 to 10-6.

I know, it’s a copout. It’s also the smartest prognastication you’ll see. Because nobody can possibly have a clue. This team, more than any other I’ve covered, can go either way.

Kyle Orton looks great. He’s the primary reason why this team can improve on 8-8. But injuries to Elvis Dumervil and Ryan Clady _ who happen to be the team’s only two returning All Pro players _ are reasons to think the team can regress.

The preseason has offered few clues because so many key players have been held out. The first-team Lions moved the ball easily against the Broncos’ first-team defense, at least until getting deep in the red zone. But how do you knock a defense that isn’t playing Dumervil, Champ Bailey or D.J. Williams?

The offense has shown no running game. But how can it with its top three running backs, and best blocker missing?

“”I think that hopefully we’ll have some guys turn the corner this week,” Broncos coach Josh McDaniels said Saturday night after the Lions’ game. “”We’re hopeful we’ll have more guys out there (against Pittsburgh) who weren’t out there tonight.”

Williams, running backs Correll Buckhalter and LenDale White, third-string quarterback Tim Tebow, and right guard Chris Kuper are among those who are close to returning from their injuries.

Starting tailback Knowshon Moreno is coming along from his hamstring injury, but he may be held back one more week as a precaution. Slot receiver Brandon Stokely will need at least one more week to rehab from his groin injury. It wouldn’t hurt Demaryius Thomas if he was held out a few more days, based on what we saw last week while he was working out on the side with conditioning coach Rich Tuten.

silkamilkamonico
08-22-2010, 05:23 PM
Denver played without half of it's starters last night on offense I believe.

I think our offense is going to be very good this year as long as the oline continues to come along and gets healthy.

Denver Native (Carol)
08-22-2010, 05:31 PM
Denver played without half of it's starters last night on offense I believe.

I think our offense is going to be very good this year as long as the oline continues to come along and gets healthy.

I could not understand all of the negatives last night in the game day thread, CONSIDERING sixteen Bronco players did not play last night. We have not yet seen what either the offense or defense will look like this year, and won't, until everyone (except Dumervil), gets healthy and can play.

broncofaninfla
08-22-2010, 06:11 PM
So what does last nights effort say about our reserves?

silkamilkamonico
08-22-2010, 06:17 PM
So what does last nights effort say about our reserves?

Who cares. They're practice players, or getting cut.

Denver Native (Carol)
08-22-2010, 06:26 PM
So what does last nights effort say about our reserves?

A few will be kept, just like any other team does

GGMoogly
08-22-2010, 06:37 PM
Putting aside my preseason silliness, I'm much more excited about this team than I was over last year's model. Obviously (IMO), the biggest worry is our young Oline. Clady and Kuper's return will help, but growing pains will be had. I really like what I see with Beadles and Walton, but they're rookies and line play is ubër-dependent on familiarity with the group. Still, I don't see us giving up many more sacks due to Orton's growing mastery of the system and quicker decision making. At some point, however, Tebow will start because he will be forced to start. This league is too brutal to expect sixteen starts from Kyle. If he CAN do it, more power to him...it's just an awful lot to ask.

The defense? A little scary. I firmly believe this offense has the talent to average 24 pts/gm, so can the D hold teams under that (ideally under 17pts)? I'm sure one of you statistical aces out there can tell me what we were last year, but again, I feel we've improved. We've added the big boys up front, Ayers looks like he's getting it (bummer about Doom...), I like Co...er...Parrish (still not keen on Alphonso). IDK..could still be some heartaches ahead, but I'm jazzed. (My orange-colored glasses refuse to let me see the age in Champ's and Dawkin's eyes)

All in all, I'm ready :hungry:...My money is on the over in Vegas!

...oh, and more TEBOW!!! :whoo:

Northman
08-22-2010, 06:45 PM
No preseason should ever be taken as the be all, end all to a season. However, it does show some problems and improvements from players, playcalling, etc. So we are not supposed to take the lack of running game seriously because a couple of starters are out (even though with a healthy backcourt we ranked 18th last year in rushing) but at the same time are supposed to "believe" that our offense will be lights out this year? Uh, no sorry. You cant have your cake and eat it too. If one faction is a sham than its all a sham and we can all just **** until week one. But, thats not reality and thats not what this board is about. We discuss what we believe and what we see and make our judgements from there right, wrong, or indifferent. Supposedly McDaniels has a system in place that should be able to run just about anyone in it which is probably why guys like Orton and Cassell can flourish in them and put up pretty numbers. Either way, i love the fact that i can talk about what i see is positives and negatives of my favorite team. Game on.

I Eat Staples
08-22-2010, 07:45 PM
Who cares. They're practice players, or getting cut.

Who cares about our 2nd team defense? I certainly do. What happens when the starters get injured or tired? Our defense collapsed last year because our starters were worn down, and we had no quality backups. Judging from this preseason, our backup defense still looks horrible. Every team needs some depth at every position. How can you possibly not care about your defensive subs?

Northman
08-22-2010, 08:13 PM
Who cares about our 2nd team defense? I certainly do. What happens when the starters get injured or tired? Our defense collapsed last year because our starters were worn down, and we had no quality backups. Judging from this preseason, our backup defense still looks horrible. Every team needs some depth at every position. How can you possibly not care about your defensive subs?


Yea, at some point you have to build depth and we dont have that which hurts even more.

rcsodak
08-22-2010, 09:28 PM
Last year, Doom PS stats were less than impressive. He had a handful of tackles and 1 sack. And yet he ended up leading the league in sacks. That tells me either McD isn't showing his hand, or Doom just "got it".

Last year in the 4th PS game, both Moss/Ayers had sacks. Look what that translated to.

In other words.....we won't know what they're going to have until the season starts.

silkamilkamonico
08-22-2010, 09:34 PM
Who cares about our 2nd team defense? I certainly do. What happens when the starters get injured or tired? Our defense collapsed last year because our starters were worn down, and we had no quality backups. Judging from this preseason, our backup defense still looks horrible. Every team needs some depth at every position. How can you possibly not care about your defensive subs?

3 of our second teamers were playing with the first team, one is injured, and 3 are coming off injury, and there was plenty of bright spots from the "reserves" who will actually make the team. And no, our defense collapsed last year because we couldn't stop the run, which in turn led to a worn out defense. We weren't that good at defense at the end of the year, that's the reality of it.

And defensive "subs" are a far cry from the "reserves" that were getting worked in the second half, not to mention the DC isn't even calling a game to win, they are calling a game to see how players react in certain situations. There is nothing wrong with our subs.

I Eat Staples
08-22-2010, 09:49 PM
3 of our second teamers were playing with the first team, one is injured, and 3 are coming off injury, and there was plenty of bright spots from the "reserves" who will actually make the team.

Our first team let the Lions drive the ball down to our goal line effortlessly on pretty much every drive, so the second teamers playing on our first team didn't look so great.


And no, our defense collapsed last year because we couldn't stop the run, which in turn led to a worn out defense. We weren't that good at defense at the end of the year, that's the reality of it.

The reason our defense got worn out doesn't matter in this discussion. My point was that our starters were worn out and our subs played poorly.

And yes, we weren't good at defense at all. Adding quality depth would obviously help that. 2nd team defense does matter.


And defensive "subs" are a far cry from the "reserves" that were getting worked in the second half, not to mention the DC isn't even calling a game to win, they are calling a game to see how players react in certain situations. There is nothing wrong with our subs.

Reserve can mean 2nd teamer. Those matter in the NFL.

And although it is preseason, letting the Lions move the ball downfield effortlessly doesn't look good on your defense.

BroncoWave
08-22-2010, 10:00 PM
Our first team let the Lions drive the ball down to our goal line effortlessly on pretty much every drive, so the second teamers playing on our first team didn't look so great.



The reason our defense got worn out doesn't matter in this discussion. My point was that our starters were worn out and our subs played poorly.

And yes, we weren't good at defense at all. Adding quality depth would obviously help that. 2nd team defense does matter.



Reserve can mean 2nd teamer. Those matter in the NFL.

And although it is preseason, letting the Lions move the ball downfield effortlessly doesn't look good on your defense.

I wouldn't be so quick to dismiss the Lions this year. They are putting together some decent pieces. Stafford will improve in his second year, Best looks to be a really good rookie and CJ is obviously one of the best WR's in the league. It wouldn't shock me to see them flirt with .500 this year. As quickly as things change in this league I'm not sure why that would shock anyone.

I Eat Staples
08-22-2010, 10:02 PM
I wouldn't be so quick to dismiss the Lions this year. They are putting together some decent pieces. Stafford will improve in his second year, Best looks to be a really good rookie and CJ is obviously one of the best WR's in the league. It wouldn't shock me to see them flirt with .500 this year. As quickly as things change in this league I'm not sure why that would shock anyone.

I think the Lions will go 6-10 because of their horrid defense, but I agree that they have a very good offense. I think they'll put up a lot of points this year.

Regardless, you don't want any team to abuse your defense the way Detroit did to ours.

BroncoWave
08-22-2010, 10:07 PM
I think the Lions will go 6-10 because of their horrid defense, but I agree that they have a very good offense. I think they'll put up a lot of points this year.

Regardless, you don't want any team to abuse your defense the way Detroit did to ours.

They do have a good d-line though so that will help their defense. They are in a really tough division so that will hurt them but they have some potential. 6-8 wins would be a good step for them this year.

silkamilkamonico
08-22-2010, 10:52 PM
Our first team let the Lions drive the ball down to our goal line effortlessly on pretty much every drive, so the second teamers playing on our first team didn't look so great.

Because of one drive? So you're saying our offense looked like NFL cellar dwellars, or NFL juggernauts, depending on which drive I choose to look at?






And yes, we weren't good at defense at all. Adding quality depth would obviously help that. 2nd team defense does matter.



Reserve can mean 2nd teamer. Those matter in the NFL.

And although it is preseason, letting the Lions move the ball downfield effortlessly doesn't look good on your defense.

I'm just going to go ahead and reiterate my first comment. Who cares about the practice players and guys that will get cut how they looked on defense. They're irrelevant. There's plenty of depth at every position on our defense that have proven themselves to play well during the season to stress out on how they are playing in different roles during the preseason with a vanilla defensive scheme.

:coffee:

Northman
08-23-2010, 01:03 AM
They do have a good d-line though so that will help their defense. They are in a really tough division so that will hurt them but they have some potential. 6-8 wins would be a good step for them this year.

Had Favre not come back i think you would be onto something but i still dont think they get past 5-6 wins either. Anything can happen but that division is way too tough and they arent quite there yet.

Elevation inc
08-23-2010, 09:41 AM
So what does last nights effort say about our reserves?

there reserves thats what it says......:D

topscribe
08-23-2010, 10:13 AM
So what does last nights effort say about our reserves?

If I understand you correctly, it causes concerns about our depth in certain
areas. And I am genuinely concerned at this point . . .

-----

BroncoJoe
08-23-2010, 10:20 AM
I think the Lions will go 6-10 because of their horrid defense, but I agree that they have a very good offense. I think they'll put up a lot of points this year.

Regardless, you don't want any team to abuse your defense the way Detroit did to ours.

I beg to differ - their DL is one that frankly, I'd want on our team. LB's are slightly above average as are their DB's.

This Lions defense will be in the top 1/2 statistically.

broncofaninfla
08-23-2010, 11:57 AM
If I understand you correctly, it causes concerns about our depth in certain
areas. And I am genuinely concerned at this point . . .

-----

Correct, preseason is a good guage for what kind of depth a team has. So far I am very concerned with our OL, RB, OLB and ILB depth. A lot of these guys will be active on Sundays and will be expected to contribute and even start in situations in which the starters are hurt.

Elevation inc
08-23-2010, 12:13 PM
Correct, preseason is a good guage for what kind of depth a team has. So far I am very concerned with our OL, RB, OLB and ILB depth. A lot of these guys will be active on Sundays and will be expected to contribute and even start in situations in which the starters are hurt.

meh i disagree with the OL depth usually you have seven-eight guys on the gameday roster anyways

Clady/Harris/Batiste/Walton/Beadles/Hochstein/Kuper/Seth Olsen....batsiste can play guard and both tackle spots, hochstein can play everywhere but LT, Beadles can play tackle and guard.....the versatility means this is probally who we will have on the 53 and thats actually pretty rock solid once they get going.....


As for RB i agree.....i like Moreno/Bucky/White, but even i am aware they need to show some good stuff this year.....problem is most teams have no depth behind there 3rd rb either......most teams arent starting a 4th string TB during the pre-season.....so my concern isnt to big untill i see what moreno/bucky/white are doing.....


my biggest concern for this team right now is OLB depth behind ayers and moss, and ILB depth behind haggan and DJ......it seems we have none.....hopefully this changes....


otehrwise i aint to worried overall knowing its pre-season and we never do well anyways in the pres-season....

silkamilkamonico
08-23-2010, 12:18 PM
Haggan has moved back outside, with Adoyle/Woodyard/Mays battling for the other ILB next to DJ.

Elevation inc
08-23-2010, 12:23 PM
Haggan has moved back outside, with Adoyle/Woodyard/Mays battling for the other ILB next to DJ.

i am willing to bet that if moss steps up next game and the one after they will chance ayers and moss outside and haggan dj inside......

mays and akin are playing terribly right now.....and woodyard is to small for a full time gig inside at TED, opposite DJ.....and if they move dj to TEd thats a big dmage to us becasue DJ doesnt shed well at all......we need haggan at TED period!!!! it will make our defense better having haggan inside and moss outside then having haggan outside and mays or ayodele inside.....


i think haggan outside is a bad idea if we have to rely on mays or ayodele inside next to DJ.....

Slick
08-23-2010, 12:29 PM
This year, training camp is finished and here’s what I always tell people who ask what kind of team I think the Broncos will have this year: Anywhere from 6-10 to 10-6.

I think we'll be lucky to win 5 games this year.

Elevation inc
08-23-2010, 12:38 PM
I think we'll be lucky to win 5 games this year.

im calling at least a split with oak and KC, wins against Seattle/Jax/SF/ST Louis/Arizona for sure.....thats eight wins....2 more somewhere in there or even 1 and we could be looking at a wildcard......

Elevation inc
08-23-2010, 12:40 PM
JOSH MCD's quote on why we didnt run like we wanted to last night



On Running The Ball More
“Yeah, I think so. The issue we kept find ourselves in were second-and-9, second-and-10. Our first down rushing wasn’t as productive as we would have liked it to be. I think we were trying to avoid third and long as much as we could, so that kind of kept us out of some second down run opportunities. But we came in looking to run a little bit more than we did.”

Slick
08-23-2010, 12:46 PM
im calling at least a split with oak and KC, wins against Seattle/Jax/SF/ST Louis/Arizona for sure.....thats eight wins....2 more somewhere in there or even 1 and we could be looking at a wildcard......

I just don't see it...where's the talent on this team?

Our running game won't change a whole lot even with Moreno, Buckhalter or White IMO. The defense, WR corps, TE's are mediocre at best. I'm not mailing it in as a fan, but I simply don't see us being able to stop people, or score enough points on a regular basis.

Plus, if I set my personal expectations as a fan low, I save myself the disappointment. I'll continue to wear my jerseys and scream at the TV/computer but I just don't see it this year guys.

Surprise me Broncos.

Elevation inc
08-23-2010, 12:50 PM
I just don't see it...where's the talent on this team?

Our running game won't change a whole lot even with Moreno, Buckhalter or White IMO. The defense, WR corps, TE's are mediocre at best. I'm not mailing it in as a fan, but I simply don't see us being able to stop people, or score enough points on a regular basis.

Plus, if I set my personal expectations as a fan low, I save myself the disappointment. I'll continue to wear my jerseys and scream at the TV/computer but I just don't see it this year guys.

Surprise me Broncos.


dude tebow is my 5th cousin on my fathers, brothers, firends side......i have god blood in my vains and can predict the future.....:lol::beer:


on a serious note low expectations superceded by a team playing above those is always a good thing.....so keep at it:beer:

Northman
08-23-2010, 12:52 PM
I just don't see it...where's the talent on this team?

Our running game won't change a whole lot even with Moreno, Buckhalter or White IMO. The defense, WR corps, TE's are mediocre at best. I'm not mailing it in as a fan, but I simply don't see us being able to stop people, or score enough points on a regular basis.

Plus, if I set my personal expectations as a fan low, I save myself the disappointment. I'll continue to wear my jerseys and scream at the TV/computer but I just don't see it this year guys.

Surprise me Broncos.


Exactly. Great minds think alike. :beer:

TXBRONC
08-23-2010, 12:57 PM
I don't think the preseason tells us that much about team generally speaking. The first two preseason games really don't even put a game plan together IIRC.

silkamilkamonico
08-23-2010, 01:01 PM
i am willing to bet that if moss steps up next game and the one after they will chance ayers and moss outside and haggan dj inside......

mays and akin are playing terribly right now.....and woodyard is to small for a full time gig inside at TED, opposite DJ.....and if they move dj to TEd thats a big dmage to us becasue DJ doesnt shed well at all......we need haggan at TED period!!!! it will make our defense better having haggan inside and moss outside then having haggan outside and mays or ayodele inside.....


i think haggan outside is a bad idea if we have to rely on mays or ayodele inside next to DJ.....

If we have absolutely no depth outside, and if Moss doesn't pan out, I think we're better off shoring up the OLB position than TED, otherwise if we leave Haggan inside in that scenario we will be very weak at one of the OLB positions which is an even worse position to be in, IMHO.

Elevation inc
08-23-2010, 01:03 PM
If we have absolutely no depth outside, and if Moss doesn't pan out, I think we're better off shoring up the OLB position than TED, otherwise if we leave Haggan inside in that scenario we will be very weak at one of the OLB positions which is an even worse position to be in, IMHO.

well i guess i could see that in some respects since Ted isnt near as important as OLB...its just i hope to god mays or ayodele gets there head out of there ass becasue if they dont we are gonna be run all over in the middle again....

silkamilkamonico
08-23-2010, 01:21 PM
Let's just hope Moss continues to make strides in his development to OLB like he has shown, and if he continues to do so I think we will be ok.

Elevation inc
08-23-2010, 01:26 PM
Let's just hope Moss continues to make strides in his development to OLB like he has shown, and if he continues to do so I think we will be ok.

i hope so.....i dont like haggan outside at all.....didnt last year and even more so this year.....i think he is custome made for TED.........

hope to god ayers and moss combine for some big things this year outside,.....

ikillz0mbies
08-23-2010, 01:32 PM
I think White will be cut before the season even begins. He got injured when he got here and missing preseason games surely doesn't help.

Slick
08-23-2010, 01:45 PM
I don't think the preseason tells us that much about team generally speaking. The first two preseason games really don't even put a game plan together IIRC.

True Tex, and I'm just going with my gut and what I see on the roster at this point.

Some of the new guys could surprise us.

I'm not trying to say we'll get killed all year. I think we'll be in most every game if not all of them, I just think we fall a little short this year.

Elevation inc
08-23-2010, 02:03 PM
I think White will be cut before the season even begins. He got injured when he got here and missing preseason games surely doesn't help.

dude is still better than fargas/ball/hall combined when his heads on straight......and we dont have to cut him we can put him exempt/suspended then clear a space when his suspension is over...most likely ball will stay on as rb 4 behind moreno/buck/Fargas...then ball will be cut or reassigned to the PS when white comes back which is fine by me.....i have not been impressed with ball at all...he reminds me of andre hall...YUCK!!!!!!

white also showed more in his few carries in TC before he got hurt than ball or hall that whole day......pretty sure when its said and done game 5 we will have moreno/bucky/fargas/white...which is actually better than last year

we dont have to make any decision regarding white till after game 4 of the reg season......

TXBRONC
08-23-2010, 02:55 PM
True Tex, and I'm just going with my gut and what I see on the roster at this point.

Some of the new guys could surprise us.

I'm not trying to say we'll get killed all year. I think we'll be in most every game if not all of them, I just think we fall a little short this year.

Oh I hear ya. We could fall short this there are a lot questions mark and it's hard say how it's all going to fit together.

arapaho2
08-23-2010, 03:39 PM
a big concern for me is moreno...dude hasnt got any time in camp, hasnt been involved

the other week marshall faulk did a segment on moreno and showed despite what some people are saying here...it wasnt just the blocking that was a problem...moreno was just not takeing the right lane, missing his cut, not following the play design, and basically running into tackles

with no camp and no preseason that will probably not change

I Eat Staples
08-23-2010, 04:07 PM
Because of one drive? So you're saying our offense looked like NFL cellar dwellars, or NFL juggernauts, depending on which drive I choose to look at?






I'm just going to go ahead and reiterate my first comment. Who cares about the practice players and guys that will get cut how they looked on defense. They're irrelevant. There's plenty of depth at every position on our defense that have proven themselves to play well during the season to stress out on how they are playing in different roles during the preseason with a vanilla defensive scheme.

:coffee:

I don't remember mentioning one drive. I was referring to the entire first half, where the Lions abused our defense and moved the ball downfield with ease. Our redzone defense looked decent, that's about it.


I beg to differ - their DL is one that frankly, I'd want on our team. LB's are slightly above average as are their DB's.

This Lions defense will be in the top 1/2 statistically.

Above average? :confused:

Their LBs and secondary are awful in my opinion, the only players I like from those positions are Julian Peterson and Louis Delmas.


Exactly. Great minds think alike. :beer:

Make that 3 of us. I think the Broncos will have 7 or 8 wins, but I agree with most of what he said.