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Northman
08-22-2010, 12:41 PM
(1st Quarter)

Offense:
Orton made a great play on a 3rd and 6 only to have it negated by an illegal formation penalty. Good rollout by Kyle though i like it. Vandenbosch bails Denver out with a late hit penalty to keep the drive going for now. The pressure that Kyle was supposedly facing wasnt happening on every down. And when he did have time he still looked for the short pass first which is troubling. Lance Ball looked good on the sweep play in which he actually had some room there. Good pass to Gaffney for a first. Great protection by the Oline on the blitz there. Lance Ball has the ball go through his hands in which Bly intercepts the pass. Fargas hasnt done a thing but i pretty much expected that as he isnt that good anyway. Holding penalty kills Orton's John Elway impression. Good footwork by neckbeard to try and make a play and hell, Willis caught a pass. lol Wow, nice pass from Orton to Lloyd but just slightly overthrown but at least it wasnt in double coverage.


Defense:
Starting the game we do have the starting lineup in with our actual starters on the Dline, but alas no pass rush. The other alarming thing is the penalties that we are getting from the get go. Its hard to say how much of the play calling is vanilla for us because McDaniels was quoted as saying we need to improve the pass rush after last week vs Cincy. Detroit's running game is just coming far too easy for them. We just cannot get any push from the Dline and continue to get abused by opposing Olines. Good news is the defense tightened up to force a FG for the Lions. Lions score an easy TD to Calvin Johnson so the turnover pays off for the Lions. Goodman not having a great 1st quarter. As the quarter winds down still zero pass rush from the defense even with four guys coming at Stafford. Detroit is just making it look so easy. Ugh!


Special Teams:
Early on the ST's looks better in terms of tackling.

Starters vs Starters

Detroit- 10
Denver- 0

(End of 1st Quarter)

Will update as i go.


(2nd Quarter)


Offense:
Kyle had some time but waits too long to unload the ball and gets sacked. McDaniels is going to get that guy killed if he cant mix it up more. Kyle hits Lance with a 15 yd TD pass to cut into the Lion lead. Good drive helped a bit by some defensive penalties by Detroit. With the second stringers in there for Detroit its just too difficult to determine how much of it was the Denver starters on offense vs the Detroit second stringers. Even though the Lion Dline is 2nd stringers i did see Bly still out there and Orton has got great chemistry with Gaffney. This last drive is looking very nice and polished. Orton again utilizing the pocket well and making great decisions with the ball even if there is nothing there. Also GREAT clock management by both the players and McDaniels here. Nice job by Orton to Branson for a TD.


Defense:
The one good thing for the starting defense is that they are in a bend but dont break mold right now. But we've seen this before and how will it last an entire game throughout the course of the season? Thus far at the 7:17 mark i still see a lot of Denver starters on this side of the ball. And finally Wink decided to do some blitzing to try and disrupt the Lions offense although Stafford is still having some pretty good success moving the ball. Run stopping is still a problem here even with some backups for Detroit. In the closing minutes Stafford still having a lot of success and a lot of time to pass even while facing the Denver starting front four. Stafford almost connects with Sheff for a TD. But again, a bend but dont break as they force yet another Detroit FG.


Special Teams:
Not a whole to report as there hasnt been much action on this side of the ball.

Denver starters vs some mix match from Detroit.

Detroit- 16
Denver- 14

(End of 2nd Quarter)


(3rd Quarter)


Offense:
Quinn now in for Orton and with time throws short. Beadles now to LT. Quinn completes 3rd and 9 to Decker but HEY! A PENALTY ON DENVER! go figure. Quinn thus far has good protection but is waiting far too long to get rid of the ball. Another bad start for Brady early. Fargas and the run game still is terrible at this point. Despite the great return Denver has too settle for a FG. Decker making his presence known here in the second half which i like. Quinn still looks like he is forcing the ball too much and the Bronco's have to settle for a 45 yd FG attempt by Prater which goes wide. Quinn still off target on a deep bomb but at least overthrown and not under. The commentators are spot on as Quinn just looks jittery rather than calm like Orton.


Defense:
Maryland native Shawn Hill now replacing Stafford at QB for Detroit. Nice end around for Detroit but Aphonso Smith disrupts it (albeit whiffing on the tackling again). Broncos hold and force a punt. Jarvis Moss with a sack and forced fumble, i just wish it could of happened against the Lions starters. But they do manage to stop the drive by Detroit in which Shawn was looking like Montana. The depth of this team is still very concerning and i only pray we dont face anymore serious injuries. Smith drops an easy INT. The dude has got to make those plays.



Special Teams:
Second half opens up with WIllis doing some KO return duties. Got to about the 15 or 20.
HOLY CRAP! Vaughn is a quick mother******! Nice job on the punt coverage. And Perish Cox finally shows what so many thought he could do. Nice return for 65 yds, we could sure use a lot of that this year. Thompson with a punt return and looked like he can create some magic if given half a chance.

Detroit- 16
Denver- 17

(End of 3rd Quarter)


(4th Quarter)


Offense:
Quinn made his best pass of the preseason too Decker. Bruce Hall is running well but again its against the scrub team. I would like to see Quinn and BH work with the 1st stringers just too see where they are at or what they can do. Good drive by Quinn and the Bronco's get a FG and go back on top 20-17. Quinn trying to make a nice run as time expires here but we know the end result.


Defense:
Pretty much scrub time now but our backups are not doing anything at all. Wow, Shawn Hill ran for a first down in super slo-mo. lmao. Detroit finishes the drive with a FG. Nice 20 yd run by Drew Stanton and the Lions regain the lead. Garbage time.


Special Teams:
Nothing of note.


Detroit- 25
Denver- 20

(End of Game)


Overall:
I think the major reason for some of the protection breakdowns on the Oline has more to do with the predictable playcalling rather than the youth or inexperience. At times the protection was rather great whether a regular rush or blitzing. The problem i believe has more to do with the one-sided playcalling. McDaniels is just far too pass happy right now and cannot establish an effective running game to give the offense any balance. He has some success on the sweeps but running inside is doing nothing. Could be because Moreno and Buck are out so time will tell to see where that leads us. But the Oline is STILL having trouble opening up lanes on a consistent basis for the runners. Denver's going to have to work on their discipline regarding penalties because they are just horrible in that dept right now. I will say im impressed with Orton's improvement as a player. He still struggles somewhat with the long pass as far as accuracy but he is trying hard to make plays when he can. Now if the penalties could be cut down it would help tremendously.

T.K.O.
08-22-2010, 01:07 PM
Orton appears to be the "shizzle" my dizzle !:laugh:

Northman
08-22-2010, 01:09 PM
Orton appears to be the "shizzle" my dizzle !:laugh:

Ok Snoop.

topscribe
08-22-2010, 01:16 PM
Well, at least Kyle overthrew his deep passes this week.

As I said last week, after his lucky incompletion (which could easily
have been an INT), if you miss a deep one, miss long, not short!

-----

Northman
08-22-2010, 01:27 PM
Updated

Denver Native (Carol)
08-22-2010, 01:36 PM
From Lindsay Jones

On the 2Q sack of Orton ... where the Broncos missed Dan Graham. Brandon and Geer both got beat. about 1 hour ago via TweetDeck

T.K.O.
08-22-2010, 01:57 PM
if it was'nt for that retarded "tip" on the pick.....orton would have the highest qb rating of any qb thus far in the preseason:elefant:
and yes...i still hope we lose all 4 preseason games and get the losing crap out of the teams system !:beer:

Northman
08-22-2010, 02:01 PM
if it was'nt for that retarded "tip" on the pick.....orton would have the highest qb rating of any qb thus far in the preseason:elefant:
and yes...i still hope we lose all 4 preseason games and get the losing crap out of the teams system !:beer:

Im not worried about his QB rating. If he continues to make smart decisions with the ball and improve his game considerably that would make me a happy camper. Oh, and if he can actually stay healthy would be a bonus.

Northman
08-22-2010, 02:05 PM
Updated.

Ravage!!!
08-22-2010, 02:11 PM
So.. how did our DL look?... pass rush?

gobroncsnv
08-22-2010, 02:13 PM
Orton staying healthy is in large part dependent upon the performance of the oline. Granted, the Lions have some STUDS upfront, but excuses don't really matter. We pay our guys to beat EVERYbody, not just the also-rans. Clady, please heal up, and hurry every chance you get.

Northman
08-22-2010, 02:14 PM
So.. how did our DL look?... pass rush?


Nah, none. Even when Blitzing we were getting nowhere near Stafford. The run game still has me concerned as well because we had our starting Dline in there and they struggled stopping the run. Doom or no Doom we still have some issues out there.

Northman
08-22-2010, 02:17 PM
Orton staying healthy is in large part dependent upon the performance of the oline. Granted, the Lions have some STUDS upfront, but excuses don't really matter. We pay our guys to beat EVERYbody, not just the also-rans. Clady, please heal up, and hurry every chance you get.

I think the Oline did the best they could honestly. From what ive seen (i will give an overall report when the game is over here) a lot of their problems tonight is what ive been worried about since the last game. No run game and its not just the players hurt is the lack of playcalling. If that area doesnt improve it wont matter if Clady is back or not. The defense just has to pin its ears back because we are so predictable and nobody is scared of us running anymore.

Denver Native (Carol)
08-22-2010, 02:24 PM
I think the Oline did the best they could honestly. From what ive seen (i will give an overall report when the game is over here) a lot of their problems tonight is what ive been worried about since the last game. No run game and its not just the players hurt is the lack of playcalling. If that area doesnt improve it wont matter if Clady is back or not. The defense just has to pin its ears back because we are so predictable and nobody is scared of us running anymore.

In both of the preseason games, passing was almost the entire offense - I would think this definitely has to do with injuries, vs playcalling.

Northman
08-22-2010, 02:28 PM
In both of the preseason games, passing was almost the entire offense - I would think this definitely has to do with injuries, vs playcalling.

Not really. McD has been quoted in saying that they need to improve the run game and that they should run the ball more. However, when it comes to the actual playcalling he hasnt called that many vs the pass. Its not shocking to me as this is the same way he called in NE. But, we dont have the talent mass that NE does so he needs to realize that he simply cant call it the same way he did there. Injuries will play their part but if your not even giving a serious attempt at it than there isnt much else to say as too why you fail at it. If he doesnt find a balance he will get Orton killed.

Northman
08-22-2010, 02:50 PM
Updated: Final

gobroncsnv
08-22-2010, 10:55 PM
The Redskins had a pretty decent rushing attack when Theisman's career ended... Routine pass play, and the offensive line didn't hold out a blitz... stuff happens, no matter the preponderance of plays being called. Bad blocking is never a good idea.
Right now, McD just seems to be trying to get the offense to string together some reps, and our rushing attack ain't gonna let that happen in it's current state (due in no small part to injuries). Our only shot as we are currently made up is to be a hugely predominant pass attack. The kids are gonna have to grow up fast, and gel together even faster.

Northman
08-23-2010, 12:50 AM
The Redskins had a pretty decent rushing attack when Theisman's career ended... Routine pass play, and the offensive line didn't hold out a blitz... stuff happens, no matter the preponderance of plays being called. Bad blocking is never a good idea.
Right now, McD just seems to be trying to get the offense to string together some reps, and our rushing attack ain't gonna let that happen in it's current state (due in no small part to injuries). Our only shot as we are currently made up is to be a hugely predominant pass attack. The kids are gonna have to grow up fast, and gel together even faster.

Well, you make an interesting point about growing up fast. The problem here is that if the running game never straightens out or if the defense doesnt improve and we start losing games from the onset when do you consider putting Tebow in? I would have to think that if we start out 0-5 or even 0-6 that you have to consider just giving the kid some playing time regardless of how Orton is playing. For me, its basically a playoffs or bust here because we should be improving every year and not regressing. McD's system has always kind of used a predominant pass attack anyway but back in NE he had better overall talent and better depth at key positions. He wont have that luxury here so he is going to probably come up with a more balanced gameplan to help ease the pressure off of Orton. If he can of course.

gobroncsnv
08-23-2010, 07:08 AM
Good discussion of taking the point to it's final edge... I think the only fly in the ointment with it would be that we really don't have the luxury of keeping the rooks out of the oline, the way the depth chart reads right now. They have to step up to give us the best chance to win. Orton already has.
If things fall off the wagon... hmmm. kinda torn here. My main philosophy is to let a rookie QB ride the pine (yes, wish Cutler would have done that the whole season) and a clipboard. Get the mental reps in, and be RIGHT THERE when they dissect the game films. There are some first year QB's that have done well, but I'd rather have him just be in occasionally, overall given a chance to marinate a bit more. The speed and size of these players is a real shock to literally everybody who comes into the league. I'm for letting that realization soak for a bit before throwing him in there. But that's just me.

TXBRONC
08-23-2010, 08:07 AM
Good discussion of taking the point to it's final edge... I think the only fly in the ointment with it would be that we really don't have the luxury of keeping the rooks out of the oline, the way the depth chart reads right now. They have to step up to give us the best chance to win. Orton already has.
If things fall off the wagon... hmmm. kinda torn here. My main philosophy is to let a rookie QB ride the pine (yes, wish Cutler would have done that the whole season) and a clipboard. Get the mental reps in, and be RIGHT THERE when they dissect the game films. There are some first year QB's that have done well, but I'd rather have him just be in occasionally, overall given a chance to marinate a bit more. The speed and size of these players is a real shock to literally everybody who comes into the league. I'm for letting that realization soak for a bit before throwing him in there. But that's just me.

Letting Wiegmann go that pretty much assured us that at the very least one rookie was going to have to start on the offensive line.

I do agree with North that if Denver start off something 0-5 or 0-6 with Orton at the helm then we might as well let Tebow start by at least the last quarter of the season. Agreed having Tebow sit does give him to absorb more of the playbook. Studying and practice are very helpful but can't simulate the actual speed of the game or an opposing defensive coordinator will do to confuse him.

Elevation inc
08-23-2010, 09:39 AM
Not really. McD has been quoted in saying that they need to improve the run game and that they should run the ball more. However, when it comes to the actual playcalling he hasnt called that many vs the pass. Its not shocking to me as this is the same way he called in NE. But, we dont have the talent mass that NE does so he needs to realize that he simply cant call it the same way he did there. Injuries will play their part but if your not even giving a serious attempt at it than there isnt much else to say as too why you fail at it. If he doesnt find a balance he will get Orton killed.

i think he has no faith for long term in ball or fargas right now to be honest which is why we are pass happy.....he gave hall for example 5 runs in a row because he earned it and he got us 43 yds off those runs......i really think he is just waiting for moreno/buck and white.........there were holes available at times for both ball and fargas, but they didnt hit them quick enough and were closed by the time they got there. both cincy and detroit were stunting, and run blitzing as well, which isnt to common during pre-season....

and we still have manged 28 points in 2 halves of preseason games with our starters and thats without a run game......and while our Offense and defense may be somewhat vailla, defenses of both cincy and detroit were blitzing and stunting the crap out of us and were not vanilla by any means. Both teams were coming like it was a reg season game.

i take big promise in knowing that against what will be 2 top 15 defenses who werent holding back agaisnt us at all, our starting offense scored 28 points in 4 quarters, while still missing Stokely, Thomas, moreno, bucky, white, clady, Graham, quinn and kuper....thats a pretty big deal.....:beer:


our offense is gonna be fun to watch this year......

topscribe
08-23-2010, 09:52 AM
i think he has no faith for long term in ball or fargas right now to be honest which is why we are pass happy.....he gave hall for example 5 runs in a row because he earned it and he got us 43 yds off those runs......i really think he is just waiting for moreno/buck and white.........there were holes available at times for both ball and fargas, but they didnt hit them quick enough and were closed by the time they got there. both cincy and detroit were stunting, and run blitzing as well, which isnt to common during pre-season....

and we still have manged 28 points in 2 halves of preseason games with our starters and thats without a run game......and while our Offense and defense may be somewhat vailla, defenses of both cincy and detroit were blitzing and stunting the crap out of us and were not vanilla by any means. Both teams were coming like it was a reg season game.

i take big promise in knowing that against what will be 2 top 15 defenses who werent holding back agaisnt us at all, our starting offense scored 28 points in 4 quarters, while still missing Stokely, Thomas, moreno, bucky, white, clady, Graham, quinn and kuper....thats a pretty big deal.....:beer:


our offense is gonna be fun to watch this year......

You have some good points here, but I still fear for Orton's health if the
defense has no respect for the running game. If the defenders can pin their
ears back and roam free in the Broncos' backfield, Orton is going to take a lot
more hits than he should, and there will be more to worry about than just his
ankles . . .

-----

Elevation inc
08-23-2010, 10:08 AM
You have some good points here, but I still fear for Orton's health if the
defense has no respect for the running game. If the defenders can pin their
ears back and roam free in the Broncos' backfield, Orton is going to take a lot
more hits than he should, and there will be more to worry about than just his
ankles . . .

-----

meh our OL is fine when it comes to pass protection.....when the other d is bringing 5 or 6 guys every time there is gonna be pressure.....defense wont be able to get away with that when we have buck and moreno in, and even white, they will get punished, and when defense do pressure like that a quick dump to royal in the slot will net big yardage.....

also when we have guys like kuper and clady back and a guy like graham.....we will be really nice....i think our makeshift line is doing just fine right now.....jay cutler is far more mobile that orton, and his starting line is getting him killed, we could be much worse than we are right now.....detroit manhadled pitts helathy OL way worse than us last week.....

Orton will be fine he looks good.....he is your boy have faith.....the Ol isnt struggling that bad is pass protection.....considering we have a career 3rd teamer in batiste at LT, hochstein coming off a serious Knee injury at RG, and 2 fresh rookies inside......

many people here want insta results during preseason(not saying you), but the fact is we are ahead of where we were last year.....and we have 16 players out right now......


we had a horrendous pre-season last year on offense and defense, and people basically said we would get toasted all year, while last year didnt finish well at all.......the pre-season of last year didnt have crap to do with what we did during the reg season.....

for me these 2 games are just fluff games, and always have been......the third is a bit better indicator but even that isnt full proof, as we were horrid last year in game 3 of pre-season....

BroncoJoe
08-23-2010, 10:11 AM
......i really think he is just waiting for moreno/buck and white.........

My sentiments exactly.

BroncoJoe
08-23-2010, 10:13 AM
Also, please keep in mind people that during our SB years we only won one preseason game. They're meaningless.

Northman
08-23-2010, 10:16 AM
i think he has no faith for long term in ball or fargas right now to be honest which is why we are pass happy.....he gave hall for example 5 runs in a row because he earned it and he got us 43 yds off those runs......i really think he is just waiting for moreno/buck and white.........there were holes available at times for both ball and fargas, but they didnt hit them quick enough and were closed by the time they got there. both cincy and detroit were stunting, and run blitzing as well, which isnt to common during pre-season....

and we still have manged 28 points in 2 halves of preseason games with our starters and thats without a run game......and while our Offense and defense may be somewhat vailla, defenses of both cincy and detroit were blitzing and stunting the crap out of us and were not vanilla by any means. Both teams were coming like it was a reg season game.

i take big promise in knowing that against what will be 2 top 15 defenses who werent holding back agaisnt us at all, our starting offense scored 28 points in 4 quarters, while still missing Stokely, Thomas, moreno, bucky, white, clady, Graham, quinn and kuper....thats a pretty big deal.....:beer:


our offense is gonna be fun to watch this year......

I obviously disagree. As i pointed out in another thread we had a healthy back court last year and still ranked 18th. McD's system doesnt really utilize a running back and we dont have the depth to take the kind of chances he is with Orton. And again, this is preseason mate so what we see isnt necessarily what we are going to get. Teams are still feeling out their own playcalling so i think they were feeling their way around as well. I wouldnt take that as an indication that they were gunning for us as more they were looking at different formations and schemes. We also scored 14 of those 28 pts against 2nd and 3rd stringers. Im not nearly as sold on the offense as you are yet. We will know week one where we stand but right now i am concerned with the playcalling.

Northman
08-23-2010, 10:16 AM
Also, please keep in mind people that during our SB years we only won one preseason game. They're meaningless.

Indeed, it doesnt mean you will fail nor does it mean you will be successful.

BroncoJoe
08-23-2010, 10:22 AM
Indeed, it doesnt mean you will fail nor does it mean you will be successful.

Exactly. This team, however is better than last year's team. IMO, of course.

Lonestar
08-23-2010, 11:05 AM
i think he has no faith for long term in ball or fargas right now to be honest which is why we are pass happy.....he gave hall for example 5 runs in a row because he earned it and he got us 43 yds off those runs......i really think he is just waiting for moreno/buck and white.........there were holes available at times for both ball and fargas, but they didnt hit them quick enough and were closed by the time they got there. both cincy and detroit were stunting, and run blitzing as well, which isnt to common during pre-season....

and we still have manged 28 points in 2 halves of preseason games with our starters and thats without a run game......and while our Offense and defense may be somewhat vailla, defenses of both cincy and detroit were blitzing and stunting the crap out of us and were not vanilla by any means. Both teams were coming like it was a reg season game.

i take big promise in knowing that against what will be 2 top 15 defenses who werent holding back agaisnt us at all, our starting offense scored 28 points in 4 quarters, while still missing Stokely, Thomas, moreno, bucky, white, clady, Graham, quinn and kuper....thats a pretty big deal.....:beer:


our offense is gonna be fun to watch this year......

I do not see the lack of running as a condemnation of the RBs, but as that worry about a cobbled up OLINE.

While IMHO Clady will not be back for the opener most if not all the rest should be and the rooks will have had a lot of valuable experience by then.

Now can they hold up under what is not looking like a 20 games season?

Lonestar
08-23-2010, 11:09 AM
I obviously disagree. As i pointed out in another thread we had a healthy back court last year and still ranked 18th. McD's system doesnt really utilize a running back and we dont have the depth to take the kind of chances he is with Orton. And again, this is preseason mate so what we see isnt necessarily what we are going to get. Teams are still feeling out their own playcalling so i think they were feeling their way around as well. I wouldnt take that as an indication that they were gunning for us as more they were looking at different formations and schemes. We also scored 14 of those 28 pts against 2nd and 3rd stringers. Im not nearly as sold on the offense as you are yet. We will know week one where we stand but right now i am concerned with the playcalling.

We also scored those points using our 2-5 string rbs and oline. That just from another POV.

Frankly This offense is designed to pass so will we have 1500 yard RB's unlikely they will be used to keep the D honest and also catch passes out of the backfield. IMO

Northman
08-23-2010, 11:12 AM
We also scored those points using our 2-5 string rbs and oline. That just from another POV.

Frankly This offense is designed to pass so will we have 1500 yard RB's unlikely they will be used to keep the D honest and also catch passes out of the backfield. IMO

Absolutely, except right now there's no indication that he can keep the defense honest which is why i pointed out that concern. I really dont think that Moreno (based off last year) is going to make that much of a difference because the line doesnt seem to be able to create lanes right now.

Elevation inc
08-23-2010, 11:58 AM
I obviously disagree. As i pointed out in another thread we had a healthy back court last year and still ranked 18th. McD's system doesnt really utilize a running back and we dont have the depth to take the kind of chances he is with Orton. And again, this is preseason mate so what we see isnt necessarily what we are going to get. Teams are still feeling out their own playcalling so i think they were feeling their way around as well. I wouldnt take that as an indication that they were gunning for us as more they were looking at different formations and schemes. We also scored 14 of those 28 pts against 2nd and 3rd stringers. Im not nearly as sold on the offense as you are yet. We will know week one where we stand but right now i am concerned with the playcalling.

actually i think zimmer and scwartz who are two aggresive coaches, knew exactly what they wanted to do and that was throw the house at our untested line and spank us, becasue thats what teams did the last eight games of last year.....it didnt work though it was 16-14 at haltime....and our starters outscored cincy's....and we had one of the most makeshift lines in the NFL right now....outside of maybe washington or philly

i bet we havent seen our offense either in its full, as for running the ball.....we will be better....ball and fargas just aint the way to go...for example fargas was getting the rock at times in the third quarter but failing miserably even when he had some holes. Hall took those same type holes and exploited them.

I hope both ball and fargas get cut, because they suck......


I agree that we aren't great in depth at RB, but it isnt near as dire as some here think, im quite sure our offense will be just fine even if we dont focus on a Run game like shanny used to.....and also why focus on running the ball the whole time when they are slamming the line with stunts and run blitzes.......now if injuries keep affecting us, we coudl be screwed.....josh might have to trade brady quinn back for hillis(HAHAHAHAHA)


biggest worry i have about this team right now is getting of the field on long situations, and our Lb's coverage ability.....outside of that i still think we are a wild card team.....at 9-7, 10-6 record......

i see nothing right now with our run game or offense that scares me enough to say we are screwed......on defense i see things that make me go, this might be a tougher year for the defense.....but im not to concerned about this team right now.....not like i have been the last 3 years.......

Elevation inc
08-23-2010, 12:03 PM
Absolutely, except right now there's no indication that he can keep the defense honest which is why i pointed out that concern. I really dont think that Moreno (based off last year) is going to make that much of a difference because the line doesnt seem to be able to create lanes right now.

really 28 points isnt keeping them honest???? both games outside of a drive or 2 in each we drove at will down the field, orton disected both cincy and detroit beautifully.......

he literally destroyed detroit in 53 seconds for a TD drive to close the half......and his TD went to a TE that cant block(part of the OL problem maybe) who is third string......


i have far less concern about our offense right now than i do about our second level on defense(Lb's).....our depth at ILB for example is horrid.....i would be ILB and OLB as the 2 worst positions on the team right now......untill DJ gets back, and haggan moves inside where he belongs...

Tempus Fugit
08-23-2010, 12:23 PM
I obviously disagree. As i pointed out in another thread we had a healthy back court last year and still ranked 18th. McD's system doesnt really utilize a running back and we dont have the depth to take the kind of chances he is with Orton. And again, this is preseason mate so what we see isnt necessarily what we are going to get. Teams are still feeling out their own playcalling so i think they were feeling their way around as well. I wouldnt take that as an indication that they were gunning for us as more they were looking at different formations and schemes. We also scored 14 of those 28 pts against 2nd and 3rd stringers. Im not nearly as sold on the offense as you are yet. We will know week one where we stand but right now i am concerned with the playcalling.

In 2006, the Patriots were 12th in the NFL in rushing yards.

In 2007, the Patriots were 13th in the NFL in rushing yards.

In 2008, the Patriots were 6th in rushing yards.

How is that not utilizing the running backs?

Northman
08-23-2010, 12:24 PM
really 28 points isnt keeping them honest???? both games outside of a drive or 2 in each we drove at will down the field, orton disected both cincy and detroit beautifully.......

he literally destroyed detroit in 53 seconds for a TD drive to close the half......and his TD went to a TE that cant block(part of the OL problem maybe) who is third string......


i have far less concern about our offense right now than i do about our second level on defense(Lb's).....our depth at ILB for example is horrid.....i would be ILB and OLB as the 2 worst positions on the team right now......untill DJ gets back, and haggan moves inside where he belongs...

Cincy yes, Detroit not so much. He didnt move the ball at ease until Detriot starting taking out their defensive starters. They certainly have a better Dline than Cincy does so i wouldnt make too much of it. I just find it funny that you say dont worry about his but yet you know our offense is going to light it up. You simply cant say that man, you may believe it but its just not fact until the regular season hits. I think generally you and i are at the same point but on different sides of the fence in terms of how this team will perform. Ultimately i hope your right but until i see it first hand im going to remain skeptical. :D

Northman
08-23-2010, 12:25 PM
In 2006, the Patriots were 12th in the NFL in rushing yards.

In 2007, the Patriots were 13th in the NFL in rushing yards.

In 2008, the Patriots were 6th in rushing yards.

How is that not utilizing the running backs?

I meant in a more balanced nature. NE has always been a more passing team than running. And it doesnt take away the fact that they have much more depth on their squad than we do.

Elevation inc
08-23-2010, 12:28 PM
I meant in a more balanced nature. NE has always been a more passing team than running. And it doesnt take away the fact that they have much more depth on their squad than we do.

they do have better depth for sure....there number 4 back is maroney who is more talented than any back on our roster not named moreno or buckhalter

i do know this...we would be stupid even if moreno has a great year not to add a legit RB in the first 3 rds in next years draft.....

Elevation inc
08-23-2010, 12:30 PM
Cincy yes, Detroit not so much. He didnt move the ball at ease until Detriot starting taking out their defensive starters. They certainly have a better Dline than Cincy does so i wouldnt make too much of it. I just find it funny that you say dont worry about his but yet you know our offense is going to light it up. You simply cant say that man, you may believe it but its just not fact until the regular season hits. I think generally you and i are at the same point but on different sides of the fence in terms of how this team will perform. Ultimately i hope your right but until i see it first hand im going to remain skeptical. :D

fair enough i guess my excitement about the offense is skewing some bias on my part. but for me the offense is night and day coimpared to last year considering our OL and having to start a 4th string RB.......so i will simemr a tad and just let the reg season do the talking since preseason is meaningless both ways;):lol::beer:

Northman
08-23-2010, 12:33 PM
fair enough i guess my excitement about the offense is skewing some bias on my part. but for me the offense is night and day coimpared to last year considering our OL and having to start a 4th string RB.......so i will simemr a tad and just let the reg season do the talking since preseason is meaningless both ways;):lol::beer:

Well, im glad to see that Orton has improved in certain areas as that will be very important to the passing game. But i still feel that our running game is going to have to improve from 18th to at the very least 10th to give us a serious chance. And unfortuantely for Temp his example of the rushing ranking for NE didnt translate to Denver in 09' so i have to wonder how much of that was McD and how much of it was Belichek? So far when asst. coaches have left NE they have not duplicated their success in NE so again im just on the wait and see approach until he can prove me wrong. Hopefully for the sake of my team he can.

Elevation inc
08-23-2010, 12:54 PM
Well, im glad to see that Orton has improved in certain areas as that will be very important to the passing game. But i still feel that our running game is going to have to improve from 18th to at the very least 10th to give us a serious chance. And unfortuantely for Temp his example of the rushing ranking for NE didnt translate to Denver in 09' so i have to wonder how much of that was McD and how much of it was Belichek? So far when asst. coaches have left NE they have not duplicated their success in NE so again im just on the wait and see approach until he can prove me wrong. Hopefully for the sake of my team he can.

it was the RB's in New england....

Faulk/Morris/Taylor and Maroney beat


Moreno/Buckhalter and Lamont jordan any day of the week as a collective group.....lamont jordan alone was a crap on our core....god he was so bad....


this year i belive white is a improvement over jordan and both bucky and moreno will be better, but i would wager even with a 18th ranked run game again we could still make the playoffs this year....1 game is all we needed last year with a much tougher schedule.....

Tempus Fugit
08-23-2010, 01:11 PM
I meant in a more balanced nature. NE has always been a more passing team than running. And it doesnt take away the fact that they have much more depth on their squad than we do.

Here's something that may help set your mind at ease:

http://www.advancednflstats.com/2010/01/run-pass-balance-historical-analysis.html

And here's a breakdown of the run/pass ratios for 2008-2009:

http://www.fantasydc.com/2008-2009-passrun-ratios/

Notice 2 things:

1.) For 64 teams (2 years of 32 teams), only 6 teams ran more than passed.

2.) Denver in 2008, under Shannahan (65% pass) vs. Denver in 2009, under McDaniels (58%).


Almost every team in the NFL is more a passing team than running. As for depth, that's simply not accurate. The Broncos clearly have more RB depth than New England does right now. It's a product of having RBs injured and replacements signed. What Denver doesn't have is Kevin Faulk. Then again, that's true of 31 NFL teams.

Elevation inc
08-23-2010, 01:16 PM
Here's something that may help set your mind at ease:

http://www.advancednflstats.com/2010/01/run-pass-balance-historical-analysis.html

And here's a breakdown of the run/pass ratios for 2008-2009:

http://www.fantasydc.com/2008-2009-passrun-ratios/

Notice 2 things:

1.) For 64 teams (2 years of 32 teams), only 6 teams ran more than passed.

2.) Denver in 2008, under Shannahan (65% pass) vs. Denver in 2009, under McDaniels (58%).


Almost every team in the NFL is more a passing team than running. As for depth, that's simply not accurate. The Broncos clearly have more RB depth than New England does right now. It's a product of having RBs injured and replacements signed. What Denver doesn't have is Kevin Faulk. Then again, that's true of 31 NFL teams.

disagree big time here...maroney is there 4th string Rb and i would take him over every back on our roster not named moreno or buckhalter.......new england has a better RB core as a unit than we do right now even when ours are healthy

Northman
08-23-2010, 01:21 PM
Here's something that may help set your mind at ease:

http://www.advancednflstats.com/2010/01/run-pass-balance-historical-analysis.html

And here's a breakdown of the run/pass ratios for 2008-2009:

http://www.fantasydc.com/2008-2009-passrun-ratios/

Notice 2 things:

1.) For 64 teams (2 years of 32 teams), only 6 teams ran more than passed.

2.) Denver in 2008, under Shannahan (65% pass) vs. Denver in 2009, under McDaniels (58%).


Almost every team in the NFL is more a passing team than running. As for depth, that's simply not accurate. The Broncos clearly have more RB depth than New England does right now. It's a product of having RBs injured and replacements signed. What Denver doesn't have is Kevin Faulk. Then again, that's true of 31 NFL teams.


I guess i should of clarified my stance regarding depth. Yes, we have depth but its not what i would call "quality" depth. People are using the excuse of not having Moreno and Bucky in the lineup as why our run game is stagnant. If thats the case than the two balls and Fargas are not very good at all. Im thinking it has quite more to do with the Oline (being young and inexperienced) is not creating the lanes necessary on a consistent basis for the backs to use. Throw in the fact that the guys we have right now are not that outstanding anyway. But when you look at NE they have/had guys like Maroney, Morris, Faulk, etc who can make things happen on their own and with great help from the line. Sammy Morris isnt all that great but he is effective in that system but the guys we have are just not that effective.

Tempus Fugit
08-23-2010, 01:53 PM
disagree big time here...maroney is there 4th string Rb and i would take him over every back on our roster not named moreno or buckhalter.......new england has a better RB core as a unit than we do right now even when ours are healthy

Maroney is not the 4th string running back. He's the #1 RB, although it's possible that Taylor will win the job this offseason.

Tempus Fugit
08-23-2010, 01:58 PM
I guess i should of clarified my stance regarding depth. Yes, we have depth but its not what i would call "quality" depth. People are using the excuse of not having Moreno and Bucky in the lineup as why our run game is stagnant. If thats the case than the two balls and Fargas are not very good at all. Im thinking it has quite more to do with the Oline (being young and inexperienced) is not creating the lanes necessary on a consistent basis for the backs to use. Throw in the fact that the guys we have right now are not that outstanding anyway. But when you look at NE they have/had guys like Maroney, Morris, Faulk, etc who can make things happen on their own and with great help from the line. Sammy Morris isnt all that great but he is effective in that system but the guys we have are just not that effective.

Fargas is battling for the #3/#4 RB position. Lendale White would also be in that mix, if he were actually on the field. The RB breakdown is really:


Moreno v. Maroney
Taylor v. Buckhalter
Morris/BJGE v. Fargas/White/the rest

What the Broncos don't have is Faulk, who's still arguably the best 3rd down back in the NFL. The key for the Broncos running game is the development of Moreno from year 1 to year 2.

Elevation inc
08-23-2010, 02:06 PM
Maroney is not the 4th string running back. He's the #1 RB, although it's possible that Taylor will win the job this offseason.

maroney is not the number 1 back....maroney is in the doghouse up to his eyeballs right now, and has been for a year now....

Northman
08-23-2010, 02:17 PM
After seeing some of the NE preseason games i believe Taylor will be the starting back. Its just a matter if he can stay healthy at this point.

Tempus Fugit
08-23-2010, 02:18 PM
maroney is not the number 1 back....maroney is in the doghouse up to his eyeballs right now, and has been for a year now....

I live in New England. I'm confident that I'm a bit more up to speed on this than you are. Maroney is the #1 RB, with Taylor having a chance to unseat him.

He was the #1 Rb last year, too.

Elevation inc
08-23-2010, 02:31 PM
last year he was number 1 and got in the doghouse......this year he wont be number 1 and isnt getting number 1 reps either........i wouldnt.....he is getting some goalline touches but he aint getting number 1 reps.....fred taylor and sammie morris have both outplayed him.....

Tempus Fugit
08-23-2010, 02:58 PM
last year he was number 1 and got in the doghouse......this year he wont be number 1 and isnt getting number 1 reps either........i wouldnt.....he is getting some goalline touches but he aint getting number 1 reps.....fred taylor and sammie morris have both outplayed him.....

No offense, but you're just uninformed on this subject. Right now, there are 4 "RBs" in Patriots camp of any significance:

Maroney
Taylor
Morris
BenJarvus Green-Ellis (BJGE)

with Faulk as the 3rd down back and guys named Taylor and Clayton to fill out the list.


Fred Taylor has explained what's going on with the running backs:


9. Running back rotation. In a surprise, it was third-year back BenJarvus Green-Ellis as the top runner; he played 21 of the 31 first-half snaps. Veteran Fred Taylor didn't play, and said after the game that he was aware that would be the case. The plan, Taylor said, is to feature different running backs at various points during the preseason.

http://sports.espn.go.com/boston/nfl/columns/story?columnist=reiss_mike&id=5461204

Notice the carry breakdown in the first two weeks.

Week 1:
Taylor (not Fred) - 8
BJGE - 11
Maroney - 8
Clayton 4

Week 2:
Fred Taylor - 11
Morris - 6
BJGE - 7
Clayton - 4

Elevation inc
08-23-2010, 03:10 PM
No offense, but you're just uninformed on this subject. Right now, there are 4 "RBs" in Patriots camp of any significance:

Maroney
Taylor
Morris
BenJarvus Green-Ellis (BJGE)

with Faulk as the 3rd down back and guys named Taylor and Clayton to fill out the list.


Fred Taylor has explained what's going on with the running backs:



http://sports.espn.go.com/boston/nfl/columns/story?columnist=reiss_mike&id=5461204

Notice the carry breakdown in the first two weeks.

Week 1:
Taylor (not Fred) - 8
BJGE - 11
Maroney - 8
Clayton 4

Week 2:
Fred Taylor - 11
Morris - 6
BJGE - 7
Clayton - 4

so how do you get maroney being number 1 from that....hilarious.....no where does it state he is number 1 or show that....and if there is a rotation there isnt a number 1 back then either.....so like i said maroney isnt number 1;)


got it so 3.8 yd avg on eight attempts= #1 back right.....haha

Tempus Fugit
08-23-2010, 03:15 PM
so how do you get maroney being number 1 from that....hilarious.....no where does it state he is number 1 or show that....and if there is a rotation there isnt a number 1 back then either.....so like i said maroney isnt number 1;)


got it so 3.8 yd avg on eight attempts= #1 back right.....haha


His rushing breakdown for that game:

5 yards TD
5 yards
-2 yards
6 yards

"Goal line" rushes
2 yards
0 yards
1 yard TD

13 yards


Further discussion on this is obviously a waste of time.

TXBRONC
08-23-2010, 03:23 PM
After seeing some of the NE preseason games i believe Taylor will be the starting back. Its just a matter if he can stay healthy at this point.

Taylor has only had two season in his career were he's played all 16 game and that was back when he was in the prime of his career.

Northman
08-23-2010, 03:24 PM
Taylor has only had two season in his career were he's played all 16 game and that was back when he was in the prime of his career.

True, and its a shame. I love his running style and when he's healthy my god he can dominate.

Elevation inc
08-23-2010, 03:28 PM
His rushing breakdown for that game:

5 yards TD
5 yards
-2 yards
6 yards

"Goal line" rushes
2 yards
0 yards
1 yard TD

13 yards


Further discussion on this is obviously a waste of time.

your best post yet on the topic.....:beer: