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elsid13
08-19-2010, 08:37 PM
http://www.denverbroncos.com/news-and-blogs/article-1/Orton-Earns-Contract-Extension/45bfadba-f0b3-4f8d-8f72-c4b86a7babe9


I think I am going to be sick

broncobryce
08-19-2010, 08:39 PM
You just beat me to it. They must expect him to light it up this season.

elsid13
08-19-2010, 08:40 PM
You just beat me to it. They must expect him to light it up this season.


Or there is gas leak at Dove Valley.

broncobryce
08-19-2010, 08:46 PM
Insurance in case Tebow needs more than 1 season to take over. I think Orton would be the ideal backup. (ducks a punch from Top)

TXBRONC
08-19-2010, 08:47 PM
It really depends on what they decided to give him.

Mike
08-19-2010, 08:49 PM
:pop2:

elsid13
08-19-2010, 08:50 PM
For those scoring at home, Kyle Orton's one-year extension for 2011 is for $9 million. His two-year total now will be over $12 million.

http://twitter.com/adam_schefter

elsid13
08-19-2010, 08:51 PM
So much for Tebow being ready to start next season......

Mike
08-19-2010, 08:51 PM
Good for Kyle. Dude has been nothing but a pro throughout this situation.

tubby
08-19-2010, 08:59 PM
Great move by the Broncos! Total no brainer.

Denver Native (Carol)
08-19-2010, 08:59 PM
http://www.denverpost.com/sports/ci_15832953

The Broncos on Thursday made a move to the future, signing first-string quarterback Kyle Orton to a contract extension, the team said.

Orton is in his sixth year in the NFL and second with the Broncos. Last season, he recorded career high stats with 3,802 yards passing.

"Considering the labor environment, I'm aware of how difficult it was to get this deal done and am extremely appreciative," Orton said in a statement.

Denver Native (Carol)
08-19-2010, 09:02 PM
http://content.usatoday.com/communities/thehuddle/post/2010/08/broncos-sign-qb-kyle-orton-to-contract-extension-through-2011/1

In a move that cements his status as the team's starter, the Denver Broncos announced a contract extension for QB Kyle Orton on Thursday.

ESPN reported it was a one-year extension that will grant Orton's rights to the Broncos through the 2011 season.

Broncos coach Josh McDaniels said in a statement he was "excited" about the deal.

"His leadership and knowledge of the offense have enabled (Orton) to have a solid offseason and training camp, and we are collectively looking forward to the 2010 season," McDaniels said.

Orton, 27, is the starter in Denver despite the addition of former Browns first-round pick Brady Quinn in March and the drafting of Tim Tebow in the first round in April.

With Orton under contract for two more years, the Broncos seem to be leaving room for the possibility that Tebow could grow into their starter within a few years.

TXBRONC
08-19-2010, 09:03 PM
So much for Tebow being ready to start next season......

I don't think this necessarily means that Tebow wont be ready next year. Now if the situation is right this tees it up for trading Orton next season.

Also I'm sure this was done to piss off UF fans that have followed Tebow to the Broncos. :lol: (Just kidding)

Denver Native (Carol)
08-19-2010, 09:07 PM
I think the following says it all:

http://www.denverbroncos.com/news-and-blogs/article-1/Orton-Earns-Contract-Extension/45bfadba-f0b3-4f8d-8f72-c4b86a7babe9

ENGLEWOOD, Colo. -- Head Coach Josh McDaniels said Kyle Orton handled competition in the offseason like a professional, earning the starting quarterback job.

On Thursday, the signal caller got a little more job security, as the Broncos signed Orton to a contract extension.

"I am excited to announce that we have agreed on an extension of Kyle Orton’s contract," McDaniels said. "His leadership and knowledge of the offense have enabled him to have a solid offseason and training camp, and we are collectively looking forward to the 2010 season."

In the team's first preseason game in 2010, Orton led the team on two touchdown drives against the Bengals in the first quarter, finishing 8-for-13 for 84 yards with two touchdowns and a quarterback rating of 119.9.

That performance came on the heels of the best statistical season of his career in 2009.

"I really enjoy playing for the Denver Broncos as well as being part of this organization and this community," said Orton, whose 29-19 career record as a starting quarterback ranks eighth in the NFL among active players. "This is the place that my wife and I definitely want to be. Considering the labor environment, I’m aware of how difficult it was to get this deal done and am extremely appreciative of all of the hard work and support from (General Manager) Brian Xanders and Coach McDaniels during this process."

Last season, Orton -- a team captain -- played all 16 games with 15 starts for the Broncos, setting career highs for pass attempts, completions, passing yards, touchdowns pases and passer rating while tying his career low for interceptions.

He completed 336-of-541 passes -- a completion percentage of 62.1 -- for 3,802 yards with 21 touchdowns and 12 interceptions for an 86.8 passer rating. It was the sixth-most passing yards for a season in team history, and he tied a club record -- alongside John Elway -- with 10 games with a passer rating of at least 90.0 that tied for fifth in the NFL for the year. His 2.2 interception percentage ranked third in team history and sixth in the NFL for the 2009 season.

In his five seasons in the NFL, Orton has thrown for 9,121 yards and 51 touchdowns.

"I’m eager to get this season started and will do whatever I can to help this team be successful," Orton said.

T.K.O.
08-19-2010, 09:13 PM
this is not a knee jerk reaction,it must have been in the works for a while,but it does not say alot about how well quinn is picking things up or performing....i mean quinn is 700K and a former 1st rounder. orton is orton and proved to be worth an extension. if not by the fans....by the people who sign the checks !:salute:

rcsodak
08-19-2010, 09:20 PM
Good for them! This speaks volumes, imo, of the FO and Mr Bowlen. They realize what Orton means to this team this year, and to "show him the money" now, instead of him playing for peanuts, can only elevate his play and confidence.
That said, I'm also agreeing with Tx. Now, with him under contract next year, they COULD pull a trade IF one of the other QB's were to surpass him.

Great job, Broncos!

Congrats, Kyle...You deserve it!

BigDaddyBronco
08-19-2010, 09:21 PM
Good for Orton. I think it will take a couple of years for Tebow to be really ready to be a pro-QB so this is a nice stop-gap. Plus the way Orton handles himself and works at it, how can you hate on the guy, not his arm or talent, but the guy himself.

dogfish
08-19-2010, 09:23 PM
a one year extension?

that's ideal, IMO-- couldn't be happier about it. . .

sorry sid, we need more than one quarterback, and quinn's useless. . . if we let orton go after the season, we'd just be looking around for someone like him. . . unless you really want some complete bum like simms or quinn as our backup. . . i don't. . .

this just gives us another competent option if tebow isn't ready next year-- and a strong backup/mentor if he is. . .

Lonestar
08-19-2010, 09:32 PM
I suspect the next announce we will hear is that Brady Quinn has been traded .

Now that they have their two QB's of the future nailed down.

Good for Orton now he can kick some ass on the field after getting some financial security.

Davii
08-19-2010, 09:34 PM
I like the deal. I think Orton has certainly earned it with his play, and it keeps the Broncos options open in regards to Tim Tebow. If he needs another year he will get it. I think Tim can definitely be the #2 this year, and will be even better next year. I'm not sure he'll be ready for the #1 role though.

Everyone says a QB's third year in a system is when they are at their best, so we get Orton as our starter in his third system year next year, and then we get Tebow in his third system as our starter the following year.

This deal was really a no brainer, we needed Orton locked up for next year if for nothing more than stability and more time for Tim to mature.

Win for all.

Denver Native (Carol)
08-19-2010, 09:38 PM
I suspect the next announce we will hear is that Brady Quinn has been traded .

Now that they have their two QB's of the future nailed down.

Good for Orton now he can kick some ass on the field after getting some financial security.

I can't see going with only two QBs, and it does not make sense to get rid of Quinn, and bring in another QB who starts all over trying to learn the system.

nevcraw
08-19-2010, 09:39 PM
:D:D
I suspect the next announce we will hear is that Brady Quinn has been traded .

Now that they have their two QB's of the future nailed down.

Good for Orton now he can kick some ass on the field after getting some financial security.

not sure about the kicking ass part because of the the OL in flux sit but looks like we will have new 6th round pick in exchange for Quinn..

5.5 guaranteed is not out of this world for a starter/tebow jock holder... :D

Northman
08-19-2010, 09:43 PM
The deal is understandable considering the options out there. But i do hope Tebow catches on fast and can surplant him as soon as possible.

Davii
08-19-2010, 09:46 PM
I can't see going with only two QBs, and it does not make sense to get rid of Quinn, and bring in another QB who starts all over trying to learn the system.

Depends on Quinn's play through the pre-season and practice. If he doesn't improve he doesn't do us much good on the roster. If he improves, great.

But from what I saw this past week Quinn will be lucky if he is 2nd string on this team come the regular season.

Additionally, if our eventual plan is to start Tebow next year or the year after, that would mean Kyle is probably off to greener pastures at the end of this extension. That being the case I would rather see another young QB come in that can be the eventual Tebow backup. If Quinn doesn't pick it up he's no better than Simms was in the #2 role.

topscribe
08-19-2010, 09:51 PM
Good for Orton. I think it will take a couple of years for Tebow to be really ready to be a pro-QB so this is a nice stop-gap. Plus the way Orton handles himself and works at it, how can you hate on the guy, not his arm or talent, but the guy himself.

A $9 million year would seem to speak a lot for his arm and his talent, wouldn't it?

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Lonestar
08-19-2010, 09:53 PM
A $9 million year would seem to speak a lot for his arm and his talent, wouldn't it?

-----
we could have franchised him for less. so I'd guess they really wanted to keep him. but then we can franchise him next year now.

jhildebrand
08-19-2010, 09:54 PM
I don't see anything to be upset about. Competition breeds success. It's a one year deal and for a good value considering the position.

At the end of the day, SD is better for having had Drew Brees and Rivers on the roster at the same time. This can only make this team better.

Denver Native (Carol)
08-19-2010, 09:57 PM
http://twitter.com/psmyth12

# Orton's 10 games with a passer rating of at least 90 in 2009 tied Denver's single-season record (Elway, '97). 10 minutes ago via Twitter for BlackBerry®

# Orton for his career in red zone: 39 TDs to only 3 INTs - 5th best among current NFL QBs. 14 minutes ago via Twitter for BlackBerry®

# Kyle Orton's 3,802 passing yards with Broncos in 2009 marked the 12th most in NFL history by a player in 1st yr w/team. about 1 hour ago via web

Northman
08-19-2010, 09:59 PM
I don't see anything to be upset about. Competition breeds success. It's a one year deal and for a good value considering the position.

At the end of the day, SD is better for having had Drew Brees and Rivers on the roster at the same time. This can only make this team better.


Lol

Well, i wouldnt really put Orton in Brees or Rivers class but i do get the drift or your point. Considering the options out there at the QB position Orton is one of the better ones to have considering and the fact its only a 1 year deal is nice. In the long run i dont think Tebow will have that much trouble learning the system or being ready in a years time but the question is will he live long enough taking shots like he did the other night.

topscribe
08-19-2010, 10:02 PM
I don't see anything to be upset about. Competition breeds success. It's a one year deal and for a good value considering the position.

At the end of the day, SD is better for having had Drew Brees and Rivers on the roster at the same time. This can only make this team better.

This contract would seem an acknowledgment by the FO that they think they may
have two very good QBs on the roster, and they want to see what happens in
the future . . .

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Davii
08-19-2010, 10:08 PM
This contract would seem an acknowledgment by the FO that they think they may
have two very good QBs on the roster, and they want to see what happens in
the future . . .

-----

Well, another thing that jumps out at me, sort of... Orton and Tebow are both team oriented individuals, and it wouldn't surprise me a whole lot to see both of them in the mix a LOT. At least next year.

If McD is planning on making packages to take full advantage of Tebow's talents I wouldn't be the least bit surprised to see the two switch QB duties throughout a game. Nor would I be surprised to see them both on the field in Wild Horses type formations.

Northman
08-19-2010, 10:11 PM
Well, another thing that jumps out at me, sort of... Orton and Tebow are both team oriented individuals, and it wouldn't surprise me a whole lot to see both of them in the mix a LOT. At least next year.

If McD is planning on making packages to take full advantage of Tebow's talents I wouldn't be the least bit surprised to see the two switch QB duties throughout a game. Nor would I be surprised to see them both on the field in Wild Horses type formations.

Do you see that as long term or just as a gimmick for the 1st year or two? Frankly, i would just like to see one QB behind center as i have yet to see the two headed QB system end with a SB win. I think overall Tebow brings a lot more to the table but i could see McD dabble with the silly wildcat stuff.

topscribe
08-19-2010, 10:13 PM
A $9 million gimmick? I don't think Mr. Bowlen would go for that . . .

-----

Northman
08-19-2010, 10:15 PM
A $9 million gimmick? I don't think Mr. Bowlen would go for that . . .

-----


Im talking about the wildcat formation being a gimmick. Orton is just a vet getting paid 9 million until Tebow is fully ready. Orton couldnt gimmick his way out of a paper bag.

dogfish
08-19-2010, 10:18 PM
Orton couldnt gimmick his way out of a paper bag.

is that good, or bad?


:noidea:


:lol:

ikillz0mbies
08-19-2010, 10:19 PM
Good move. Plus, the extension isn't long. It's just to keep the seat warm until Tebow is ready. This also spells the end of Brady Quinn. Don't see how this is such a bad move.

dogfish
08-19-2010, 10:20 PM
So excited I just peed a little!

Sincerely,

Claymore

Northman
08-19-2010, 10:20 PM
Good move. Plus, the extension isn't long. It's just to keep the seat warm until Tebow is ready.

Definitely, with the team rebuilding he is a seat warmer until we are ready to make a serious run.

Ravage!!!
08-19-2010, 10:21 PM
This still doesn't mean Orton is here next season. If Tebow isn't ready to start by next sesason, its a MAJOR MAJOR fubar on the coaching staff for selecting a first round QB that can't start.

I personally don't see this as making a difference.

Northman
08-19-2010, 10:21 PM
So excited I just peed a little!

Sincerely,

Claymore

Someone might need to call him. He could be on suicide watch.

topscribe
08-19-2010, 10:21 PM
So excited I just peed a little!

Sincerely,

Claymore

That wasn't from excitement.

That was from being "pissed" off . . .

-----

Denver Native (Carol)
08-19-2010, 10:23 PM
http://www.denverpost.com/broncos/ci_15832953

The Broncos on Thursday night made a move to the future, signing quarterback Kyle Orton to a contract extension through the 2011 season.

Orton was playing on a one-year, $2.621 million contract through the end of this season.

He will make about $8.8 million in salary in 2011, with a $5.5 million guarantee. That brings the balance of his contract over two years to more than $11 million, with $7.6 million guaranteed.

Orton, who arrived in Denver as part of the trade that sent Jay Cutler to Chicago in April 2009, would have become an unrestricted free agent after the 2010 season.

He had expressed desire for a new contract from the Broncos in the offseason, but instead saw the team trade for Brady Quinn in March and draft Tim Tebow in April.

Yet Orton emerged as the clear No. 1 quarterback in training camp. He now has the chance to keep the Tebow Era at bay for another year.

The deal will give Orton three years, in the prime of his career, to succeed with the Broncos under coach Josh McDaniels.

It will also help ease the pressure for rookie quarterback Tim Tebow, who could not get two years of developing under Orton and Brady Quinn, who is also signed through 2011.

Orton is in his sixth year in the NFL and second with the Broncos. Last season, he recorded career high stats with 3,802 yards passing.

"Considering the labor environment, I'm aware of how difficult it was to get this deal done and am extremely appreciative," Orton said in a statement.

Davii
08-19-2010, 10:25 PM
Do you see that as long term or just as a gimmick for the 1st year or two? Frankly, i would just like to see one QB behind center as i have yet to see the two headed QB system end with a SB win. I think overall Tebow brings a lot more to the table but i could see McD dabble with the silly wildcat stuff.

I completely agree with you. I don't think it would last long term. Next year though? I think we might see quite a bit of it. McD knows that Tebow must play in order to improve as quickly as he wants. Why not play him more and more as he improves?

I think we will see some of it this year, but I definitely think with Orton locked up for another season we will see more and more of it until eventually Kyle is off to greener pastures and Tim is the #1.

Lonestar
08-19-2010, 10:27 PM
That wasn't from excitement.

That was from being "pissed" off . . .

-----

actually I was thinking he was on a suicide watch by now.

ikillz0mbies
08-19-2010, 10:28 PM
Definitely, with the team rebuilding he is a seat warmer until we are ready to make a serious run.

Absolutely. Orton gives a team a much better chance to win the division for the next two year.

Davii
08-19-2010, 10:28 PM
This still doesn't mean Orton is here next season. If Tebow isn't ready to start by next sesason, its a MAJOR MAJOR fubar on the coaching staff for selecting a first round QB that can't start.

I personally don't see this as making a difference.

Can't say I completely agree, but I do to a point. If Orton is still the better option next season and Tim takes the reigns fully in 2012 it isn't the best scenario for the draft selection.

But what if the two years learning enables him to step in and be our franchise QB for a decade or more at that point?

Then there can be no doubt it was a smart move. Only time will tell.

Northman
08-19-2010, 10:30 PM
I completely agree with you. I don't think it would last long term. Next year though? I think we might see quite a bit of it. McD knows that Tebow must play in order to improve as quickly as he wants. Why not play him more and more as he improves?

I think we will see some of it this year, but I definitely think with Orton locked up for another season we will see more and more of it until eventually Kyle is off to greener pastures and Tim is the #1.

Personally, im kinda hoping we dont see it next year. Im hoping by the end of the season McD gets Tebow some playing time this year while the team tries to get a feel for chemistry again and we have time to heal all our players. Obviously, if Tebow isnt ready by season's end than we see Orton again next year but im hoping we dont have to really wait that long. Its a good safety net to have Orton signed for next year but hopefully not necessary in the long run.

Northman
08-19-2010, 10:32 PM
Absolutely. Orton gives a team a much better chance to win the division for the next two year.

Whoa Whoa Whoa brother. Baby steps, baby steps. We arent quite there yet. :lol:

Bronco4ever
08-19-2010, 10:33 PM
As long as he doesn't have the same fate as Doom after signing an extension, I'm all for this. Orton is a good leader for this team and I'm excited to see what he can do in year 2.

broncobryce
08-19-2010, 10:33 PM
This still doesn't mean Orton is here next season. If Tebow isn't ready to start by next sesason, its a MAJOR MAJOR fubar on the coaching staff for selecting a first round QB that can't start.

I personally don't see this as making a difference.

Aaron Rodgers, Phillip Rivers. Would you call those dumb moves? How stupid they are for drafting them.:rolleyes:

Denver Native (Carol)
08-19-2010, 10:33 PM
Can't say I completely agree, but I do to a point. If Orton is still the better option next season and Tim takes the reigns fully in 2012 it isn't the best scenario for the draft selection.

But what if the two years learning enables him to step in and be our franchise QB for a decade or more at that point?

Then there can be no doubt it was a smart move. Only time will tell.

http://blogs.denverpost.com/broncos/2010/08/19/broncos-sign-orton-to-1-year-extension/4606/

The deal will give Orton three years, in the prime of his career, in Josh McDaniels’ offensive system. It will also help ease the pressure for rookie quarterback Tim Tebow, who could now get two years of developing under Orton and Brady Quinn, who is also signed through 2011.

Tebow could follow the development program that Philip Rivers went through in San Diego, where he sat two years behind Drew Brees, and Aaron Rodgers, who waited three years in Green Bay before Brett Favre retired for the first time following the 2007 season.

Rivers and Rodgers are now considered among the top five or six quarterbacks in the NFL, so it’s clear patience had its benefits.

rationalfan
08-19-2010, 10:35 PM
This still doesn't mean Orton is here next season. If Tebow isn't ready to start by next sesason, its a MAJOR MAJOR fubar on the coaching staff for selecting a first round QB that can't start.

why? it's not like tebow was a top five pick. he was the 25th pick. it's a safe move with a manageable contract. it seems a bigger "fubar" was jarvis moss at 19 (i think) or moreno at 12. selecting a QB of the future late in the first round shows moxie, not idiocy. he'll have time to grow without the pressure of having to achieve immediate success. think aaron rodgers. if tebow's 75 percent as good the team scored a coup.

some of y'all need to listen to GNR and remember how to use "patience." it's a virtue.

Lonestar
08-19-2010, 10:36 PM
Aaron Rodgers, Phillip Rivers. Would you call those dumb moves? How stupid they are for drafting them.:rolleyes:

you could have added big Ben to the list had the injury not happened.

pnbronco
08-19-2010, 10:37 PM
Good for Kyle. Dude has been nothing but a pro throughout this situation.

Mike I second, third and so on that.....I'm so glad for Kyle. It's probably my age, but when someone is rewarded for working their tail off, being a pro and being a total class act it just makes me feel like sometimes life can be fair.

I was driving home from Loveland after working for 12 hours today and when I heard I couldn't stop smiling, it made those last 20 miles go a little faster.......:D

Ravage!!!
08-19-2010, 10:37 PM
Can't say I completely agree, but I do to a point. If Orton is still the better option next season and Tim takes the reigns fully in 2012 it isn't the best scenario for the draft selection.

But what if the two years learning enables him to step in and be our franchise QB for a decade or more at that point?

Then there can be no doubt it was a smart move. Only time will tell.

Sure.... I can't disagree with that. But thats that goes for every draft pick. I mean, if a guy takes 5 years to become a franchise type of QB, was the pick the right one? Sure.... in the long run. But you normally don't like to see first round QBs take that long to show they are "the man."

But if/when you spend 4 picks to take ONE player... I personally believe that he should be on teh field as soon as those that are on the field the first year. I mean, if they are THAT valuable, and that good to use that much for, then they should be as good as the ones we see on the field in day one.

I get what you are saying. But imo, if he cant' beat out a journeyman type QB after his first season in the NFL, then the draft decision takes a SERIOUS hit.

Northman
08-19-2010, 10:37 PM
why? it's not like tebow was a top five pick. he was the 25th pick. it's a safe move with a manageable contract. it seems a bigger "fubar" was jarvis moss at 19 (i think) or moreno at 12. selecting a QB of the future late in the first round shows moxie, not idiocy. he'll have time to grow without the pressure of having to achieve immediate success. think aaron rodgers. if tebow's 75 percent as good the team scored a coup.

some of y'all need to listen to GNR and remember how to use "patience." it's a virtue.

Welcome to the Jungle brother. :D

Ravage!!!
08-19-2010, 10:42 PM
Aaron Rodgers, Phillip Rivers. Would you call those dumb moves? How stupid they are for drafting them.:rolleyes:

They didn't spend 4 picks to get either. Neither was "intended" to sit. If you want to go back in history and talk about the QBs that started from day one, I feel pretty confident I can counter your Rodgers and Rivers with 10 other examples.

Rivers would have started from day one if he didn't hold out. We don't know if sitting made them better or not. They were both top QBs coming out of college, and its just as reasonable to think that they would have been the same QB on the field... maybe a season sooner. When both QBs have been asked, BOTH have said that they didn't learn NEARLY as much watching as they did that first season on the field. So did sitting benefit them, or did they simply lose a season from getting more valuable experience?? :whoknows:

topscribe
08-19-2010, 10:44 PM
:popcorn: I'm thoroughly enjoying this.



*Damn. I shouldn't have had that last sip of brandy*



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TXBRONC
08-19-2010, 10:45 PM
Can't say I completely agree, but I do to a point. If Orton is still the better option next season and Tim takes the reigns fully in 2012 it isn't the best scenario for the draft selection.

But what if the two years learning enables him to step in and be our franchise QB for a decade or more at that point?

Then there can be no doubt it was a smart move. Only time will tell.

Rivers was the 5th overall pick in his draft class and he sat for two seasons FWIW.

That being said I don't think Orton getting a one year extension is any kind of absolute guarantee that he'll be in Denver next season. I think what this move does ultimately does is give McDaniels the ability to trade Orton under the right circumstances rather than him getting away as UFA, or keep him as a starter for one more year if needed, or as solid back up behind Tebow if they can't get a decent trade for Orton.

Ravage!!!
08-19-2010, 10:45 PM
why? it's not like tebow was a top five pick. he was the 25th pick. it's a safe move with a manageable contract. it seems a bigger "fubar" was jarvis moss at 19 (i think) or moreno at 12. selecting a QB of the future late in the first round shows moxie, not idiocy. he'll have time to grow without the pressure of having to achieve immediate success. think aaron rodgers. if tebow's 75 percent as good the team scored a coup.

some of y'all need to listen to GNR and remember how to use "patience." it's a virtue.

We didn't use 4 picks to move up (in one of the deepest drafts in the last decade) to grab either of those players. Neither did GB to grab Aaron Rodgers.

As I said in the post above, we dont' know if sitting was benificial or if it purely delayed the same result. Aaron himself said that playing was a LOT LOT more valuable than holding the clipboard.

If you are going to spend that kind of value to trade up and grab a player.... they have a lot more expectations placed upon them. Just as 1st round picks have more expectations than a 4th round pick. Thats just rational thinking.

Northman
08-19-2010, 10:48 PM
They didn't spend 4 picks to get either. Neither was "intended" to sit. If you want to go back in history and talk about the QBs that started from day one, I feel pretty confident I can counter your Rodgers and Rivers with 10 other examples.

Rivers would have started from day one if he didn't hold out. We don't know if sitting made them better or not. They were both top QBs coming out of college, and its just as reasonable to think that they would have been the same QB on the field... maybe a season sooner. When both QBs have been asked, BOTH have said that they didn't learn NEARLY as much watching as they did that first season on the field. So did sitting benefit them, or did they simply lose a season from getting more valuable experience?? :whoknows:


All valid points. Bottom line for all this is if Denver is still able to compete for the division or gain access to the playoffs than its a luxury to have Tebow sitting. But, if we are only getting 4-5 wins than i cant see the advantage of having him sit on the bench. If the team isnt winning than let the kid get his lumps so that when the team is ready to roll he has the experience necessary to lead the team into the future.

Ravage!!!
08-19-2010, 10:51 PM
Rivers was the 5th overall pick in his draft class and he sat for two seasons FWIW.

That being said I don't think Orton getting a one year extension is any kind of absolute guarantee that he'll be in Denver next season. I think what this move does ultimately does is give McDaniels the ability to trade Orton under the right circumstances rather than him getting away as UFA, or keep him as a starter for one more year if needed, or as solid back up behind Tebow if they get a decent trade for Orton.

I think this is exactly the situation. Although, I firmly believe that Orton won't be the back-up to Tebow next season. I think that causes a lot of "controversy" on the team, from the fans, and absolutely for the 'new' QB that is now looking over his shoulder at the former starter just waiting to come in at the earliest mistake you make.

tomjonesrocks
08-19-2010, 11:18 PM
:lalala:

TXBRONC
08-19-2010, 11:23 PM
I think this is exactly the situation. Although, I firmly believe that Orton won't be the back-up to Tebow next season. I think that causes a lot of "controversy" on the team, from the fans, and absolutely for the 'new' QB that is now looking over his shoulder at the former starter just waiting to come in at the earliest mistake you make.

Agreed if Tebow is ready then keeping Orton around for another year wouldn't be ideal. I think it would be possible to have work for a year but I wouldn't want to push past that.

TimTebow15MVP
08-19-2010, 11:25 PM
Once again mcdaniels works his genius. He knows orton is about to have a pro bowl season. this baby extension means we dont gotta tag him this off season to get that high draft pick were gonna get when hes traded next year. Orton gets to make more money this year as he deserves also, Mcdaniels looked out for orto and the team

JDL
08-19-2010, 11:32 PM
Orton is not a franchise QB, any reasonable fan can see that, but he is competent QB, good team player, even leader, he's gutsy and finds a way to get the job done. Those are the types of guys you love to have around and you know when it is time for Tebow to get his opportunity, he is not going to sit on the sideline and pout like some former Bronco we all remember.

The money is also a total non-factor, if Orton is starting then he is getting paid the going rate, and even if he is not, Tebow would be making much less than the going rate, so it all balances out. We are not going to be overspending (unless both just stink the barn out) on the QB position.

TXBRONC
08-19-2010, 11:43 PM
Once again mcdaniels works his genius. He knows orton is about to have a pro bowl season. this baby extension means we dont gotta tag him this off season to get that high draft pick were gonna get when hes traded next year. Orton gets to make more money this year as he deserves also, Mcdaniels looked out for orto and the team

I don't think McDaniels did this thinking that Orton is on the verge of having a pro bowl type season. I don't see Orton getting this contract extension guarantees that we get a high pick for him should he be traded. Again assuming Tebow takes the reins next year what this means Orton doesn't get away without getting something in exchange. Maybe this extension brings a high pick but I doubt it will.

PAINTERDAVE
08-19-2010, 11:50 PM
Yeah... it seems like it gives the broncos options...
as far as what they can do with Orton.

I don't know if he is gonna have a pro bowl year...
or if he is gonna break his leg.

I will admit that I did not see this move coming...

glad to see Orton getting paid more...
glad we have options on him depending how the season goes.

Shazam!
08-19-2010, 11:52 PM
Good for Orton.

He's been a solid professional when Denver brought in two QBs. Not only that but he is the best they have at the position right now.

Let's see what he does this Season in year two.

TimTebow15MVP
08-19-2010, 11:53 PM
Orton will be only 28. somebodies gonna give up a high 2nd or late 1st for a pro bowl QB. Whose a leader also. I think mcdaniels was very well thinking about the season ortons gonna have. i mean lets face it he did have a pretty damn good season last year with 3800 yards and 21 touchdowns. the OL will be better, the targets are better, were wayyyyy too deep at WR this year and orton spreads it around nicely this year which was expected since hes comfortable in the system now he does not have to lock on his best WR and force it to him 200 times. This is like the deepest WR core the broncos has ever had. Orton will indeed set the league on fire this year. Wait till thomas and deck get back on the field. Bay Bay alreadt set camp on fire with deep ball after deep ball i cant wait untill Orton gets that target back.

Northman
08-20-2010, 12:21 AM
Orton will be only 28. somebodies gonna give up a high 2nd or late 1st for a pro bowl QB. Whose a leader also. I think mcdaniels was very well thinking about the season ortons gonna have. i mean lets face it he did have a pretty damn good season last year with 3800 yards and 21 touchdowns. the OL will be better, the targets are better, were wayyyyy too deep at WR this year and orton spreads it around nicely this year which was expected since hes comfortable in the system now he does not have to lock on his best WR and force it to him 200 times. This is like the deepest WR core the broncos has ever had. Orton will indeed set the league on fire this year. Wait till thomas and deck get back on the field. Bay Bay alreadt set camp on fire with deep ball after deep ball i cant wait untill Orton gets that target back.


The only problem with this is Denver would have to have an extremely successful season (let alone Orton would have to light it up even more than last year) to be considered for the pro bowl. Orton plays in a conference where guys like Manning, Brady, Schaub, and Rivers also are involved. With the exception of Schaub the other 3 constantly have their teams in the playoffs so it would be extremely difficult for Orton to make the pro bowl. Cutler did it with an 8-8 season but not without controversy considering what Rivers did down the stretch of that year. Now, with the chances of Bmore's offense most likely to improve with the arrival of Boldin and Sanchez in NY i just dont see Orton getting the nod over any of those despite another 3,000 yd season. Its basically a popularity contest and Orton just doesnt have the following that the other guys do in terms of "quality" pro bowl QB material.

Timmy!
08-20-2010, 12:38 AM
I like everything about it. If it was 3 years I'd be upset, but a 1 year extension is perfect. Orton has handled everything as well as anybody could ask for. Now go out there and light it up so Tebow can sit and learn and take the reigns when the time is right. Viva la Neckbeard.

bcbronc
08-20-2010, 12:48 AM
next rounds on Orton!

:beer:

topscribe
08-20-2010, 12:59 AM
You know what is ironic? With his $8.8 million contract, Orton will be making
more than Cutler ($7.5 million) in the same year, according to the DP . . .

-----

BroncoBJ
08-20-2010, 01:04 AM
I think its a pretty good move. If Orton does well then chances are we do well and hes here again next year while were winning. And if he has a good year but we feel Tebow is ready next year, then we have a nice solid backup in Orton or we just trade him and get value.

So I think its nothing but a win win situation. And heres to Orton having a great season :rockon:

Northman
08-20-2010, 01:32 AM
for example lets say kyle plays very well this year....you could make a arguement that the competition that was created by drafting tebow, was actually a great move since it pushed kyle to perform even better.

Depends on your stance with Orton i guess. There have been some who use his ankle injury as a crutch even though he had a decent season last year. Those same individuals would say that Orton would shine this year being healthy and being in the 2nd year system with or without a QB competition.


All the while that first rd pick is being groomed the correct way with no pressure to lead the team right away.

There seems to be this misconception that great Qb's need to sit in order to actually be great. Thats just not accurate. While it does not hurt a young QB to sit the great ones who do start early show signs that they are going to be franchise QB's. The part of that is what kind of talent they have around them. For guys like Matt Ryan and Mark Sanchez both have the ability to work with solid talent around them and it hasnt hurt them to be starters thus far.


I'm am not a big Orton fan, but the guy has earned mad respect as of late....if he can lead us to the playoffs this year, i could care less what rd tebow was drafted in.....because ultimaetly Tebow learning behind orton without the pressure becomes better for this org in the long run......


What are you giving him mad respect for? Is it for his character? I think thats a given as he's been the consummate professional from day one so if thats the case i would agree. However, while being a good QB he just isnt a great QB. If Orton has success this year will it be because of the surrounding talent or because of him? And if its the surrounding talent than i wouldnt completely write off Tebow being just as successful with the same talent. Again, if we are successful and make the playoffs with Orton than its a bonus to have Tebow sit. However, if we are struggling and arent winning many games i just cant see keeping Tebow on the bench at that point.

broncophan
08-20-2010, 01:32 AM
Good to see the front office and Bowlen step up and take care of Orton....

Tempus Fugit
08-20-2010, 01:44 AM
Excellent signing.

topscribe
08-20-2010, 03:00 AM
Depends on your stance with Orton i guess. There have been some who use his ankle injury as a crutch even though he had a decent season last year. Those same individuals would say that Orton would shine this year being healthy and being in the 2nd year system with or without a QB competition.

Of course, you would be referring to me. In fact, I have never used it as a
"crutch." To the contrary, I have used it as a compliment because Orton did
do a decent job, not only last year but the past two years, while playing on
one, sometimes two, high ankle sprains.

Those who have no concept on how a high ankle sprain affects both a QB's
passing and mobility will consider the citing of such an injury an "excuse."
Injuries hamper ability. There is no getting around it. A sore shoulder hurts a
baseball pitcher's performance. Carpal tunnel affects a tennis player's ability
to hold his racket. A high ankle sprain inhibits either the QB's ability to push
off or to plant his foot, depending on which ankle was sprained . . . but two
high ankle sprains at the same time should put a QB on IR, let alone do a
decent job, as you mentioned.

One of the people who have cited this condition as hampering Orton's ability
is Orton himself, analogizing it with playing on "two flat tires." If you take
issue with that, then I can't wait to hear how it came out, after you have a
chance to discuss it with Orton in person.



What are you giving him mad respect for? Is it for his character? I think thats a given as he's been the consummate professional from day one so if thats the case i would agree. However, while being a good QB he just isnt a great QB. If Orton has success this year will it be because of the surrounding talent or because of him? And if its the surrounding talent than i wouldnt completely write off Tebow being just as successful with the same talent. Again, if we are successful and make the playoffs with Orton than its a bonus to have Tebow sit. However, if we are struggling and arent winning many games i just cant see keeping Tebow on the bench at that point.

Well, you've tipped off right here what you're going to say: that it was the
talent around Orton. You seem already to have that prepared.

However, that's just the thing: You don't know how good or great Orton can
be. No one does, not even McDaniels. That is why he's paying Orton more
next year than even Cutler is making ($7.5 million). He is not paying Orton
$8.8 million to be a backup QB, any more than he drafted Tebow #1 to be a
backup. Obviously, McDaniels wants to see what is going to happen, but he
has just demonstrated he is serious about making it a competition.

But even Orton has said that for the first time in his career he's now getting
a fair chance to prove himself. We have not seen him in anywhere near the
situation where we can judge just how good he is, or isn't. Only fans on the
football message boards seem to think they know.

-----

Mr D
08-20-2010, 03:01 AM
Well deserved, great move. Good insurance for next season, won't be stuck to start a QB you don't want to.

With that being said, I think this shows the type of organization the Broncos are. It's great respect to Orton to give him 9 million (I'm sure there are escalators).

Another thing is that it shows great confidence in Kyle. He's worked on his improving his throwing power/deep ball, worked on improving in the system, and being a team player.

Every single player respects him, and every single report out their on the Broncos training camp shows that he looks great.

A+ contract extension. Kyle will be the highest paid QB on his team for the 1st time in his career.

Mr D
08-20-2010, 03:04 AM
Of course, you would be referring to me. In fact, I have never used it as a
"crutch." To the contrary, I have used it as a compliment because Orton did
do a decent job, not only last year but the past two years, while playing on
one, sometimes two, high ankle sprains.

Those who have no concept on how a high ankle sprain affects both a QB's
passing and mobility will consider the citing of such an injury an "excuse."
Injuries hamper ability. There is no getting around it. A sore shoulder hurts a
baseball pitcher's performance. Carpal tunnel affects a tennis player's ability
to hold his racket. A high ankle sprain inhibits either the QB's ability to push
off or to plant his foot, depending on which ankle was sprained . . . but two
high ankle sprains at the same time should put a QB on IR, let alone do a
decent job, as you mentioned.

One of the people who have cited this condition as hampering Orton's ability
is Orton himself, analogizing it with playing on "two flat tires." If you take
issue with that, then I can't wait to hear how it came out, after you have a
chance to discuss it with Orton in person.




Well, you've tipped off right here what you're going to say: that it was the
talent around Orton. You seem already to have that prepared.

However, that's just the thing: You don't know how good or great Orton can
be. No one does, not even McDaniels. That is why he's paying Orton more
next year than even Cutler is making ($7.5 million). He is not paying Orton
$8.8 million to be a backup QB, any more than he drafted Tebow #1 to be a
backup. Obviously, McDaniels wants to see what is going to happen, but he
has just demonstrated he is serious about making it a competition.

But even Orton has said that for the first time in his career he's now getting
a fair chance to prove himself. We have not seen him in anywhere near the
situation where we can judge just how good he is, or isn't. Only fans on the
football message boards seem to think they know.

-----
I'm a bit confused on the Jay Cutler contract. He must have some crazy escalators or something, because yahoo sports and fox sports has him making 22 million this year.

I know that can't be guaranteed so if someone can clarify this it would be good.

topscribe
08-20-2010, 03:07 AM
I'm a bit confused on the Jay Cutler contract. He must have some crazy escalators or something, because yahoo sports and fox sports has him making 22 million this year.

I know that can't be guaranteed so if someone can clarify this it would be good.

I'm just going by what the Denver Post (http://www.denverpost.com/broncos/ci_15832953) has to say. (Scroll down to the bottom
of the article.) However, it's not as if the media has always been right . . .

-----

Mr D
08-20-2010, 03:09 AM
I'm just going by what the Denver Post (http://www.denverpost.com/broncos/ci_15832953) has to say. (Scroll down to the bottom
of the article.) However, it's not as if the media has always been right . . .

-----

That list looks accurate considering thats probably guaranteed money.

They really need to fix those rookie contracts... can't believe stafford got more guaranteed money than brady and brees. I mean, SERIOUSLY?

ursamajor
08-20-2010, 04:08 AM
Its good to hear Kyle is getting paid. He is a classy guy and hard worker. He deserves it.

Jagsbch
08-20-2010, 05:01 AM
How much does Orton get this year as a result of the extension?

Ok I figured it out.

Kyle Orton's is scheduled to make 3 million this year. wopty do.... not to mention he only gets a fraction of that if he gets traded.

Your going to pay Orton 9 million to sit on the bench next season? I don't think so... This is nothing but a smokescreen to sell Orton in a trade.

This contract means nothing considering if he is traded the team he goes too will renegotiate his contract for a longer term one. This is designed to do nothing more IMO than up the ante of his trade.

HORSEPOWER 56
08-20-2010, 05:26 AM
Good for Kyle. I'm happy that his effort and professionalism has been rewarded. Now, let's see if he really can shine this year and earn that big extension or if he turns into a pumpkin like so many pros do after they get paid.

If Kyle does well this year, that's good for the Broncos. And that's good for me. If he doesn't, he'll be one of the highest paid backups in the league next year. Either way, he wins.

Jagsbch
08-20-2010, 05:47 AM
This just add's more quetions IMO than actual answers.

I personally don't see this as a reward, a reward would allow him to be getting paid now. Is he getting paid now? Money on paper in this league does not necessarily equate to making cents...

It is a 12 million dollar contract spread out over 2 years, 9 million next season 3 million this season. (Lots of conflicting reports regarding amount)

How much of a signing bonus did he get that is the question. How much guaranteed money did he get from next years salary this year? If the guaranteed money revolves around next season, such as roster Bonus ect. then this again is nothing more than a smokescreen designed to do nthing more than play up the value of Orton for trade purposes IMO.

claymore
08-20-2010, 06:13 AM
I like the move, but I think we have more money invested in backup QB's than any team in league history.

Apollo
08-20-2010, 06:36 AM
You know what is ironic? With his $8.8 million contract, Orton will be making
more than Cutler ($7.5 million) in the same year, according to the DP . . .

-----

Based off of last season's performance, rightfully so. Orton was more accurate, threw for more yards and threw less than half the amount of INT's Cutler did.

spikerman
08-20-2010, 06:36 AM
After this move, if I'm Brady Quinn I might not completely unpack my suitcases.

claymore
08-20-2010, 06:38 AM
After this move, if I'm Brady Quinn I might not completely unpack my suitcases.

Gay guys travel light.

elsid13
08-20-2010, 06:57 AM
This contract would seem an acknowledgment by the FO that they think they may
have two very good QBs on the roster, and they want to see what happens in
the future . . .

-----

Or more likely they feel that they don't have good option to replace him in house or on the open market. What they done is extended Tebow learning curve time that's it. This really isn't commit to Orton because it is one year deal. In the end the most important position on the team is still up in the air and we have not found the long term solution yet.

For everyone else the franchise tag would have cost Denver about 14 to 16 plus million dollar for QB

sneakers
08-20-2010, 07:36 AM
All Hail King Neckbeard!!!!

SOCALORADO.
08-20-2010, 07:45 AM
Ortons new contract spells the end of the Quinn era in DEN. He will be cut soon, and looking for a job.
The contract also was a smart move by the FO. Locks up a servicable QB that knows the system and will start this year. Next year, Tebow will take over and DEN will still have a solid back up and not some chump calibur QB like Simms, who cant even operate the offense in its most stripped down form. Keeps the young Tebow a bit on edge knowing theres a guy on the sidelines who can come in and run the complete offense in a moments notice.
This also allows DEN more breathing room in terms of a trade in the offseason with Orton if it just should happen.

slim
08-20-2010, 07:55 AM
http://www.denverbroncos.com/news-and-blogs/article-1/Orton-Earns-Contract-Extension/45bfadba-f0b3-4f8d-8f72-c4b86a7babe9


I think I am going to be sick

It is a one year extension. BFD.

Stop being a drama queen.

Tned
08-20-2010, 08:10 AM
Good for Kyle. Dude has been nothing but a pro throughout this situation.

Yep. My first reaction was simply "good for Orton". I think he's spent roughly half of his time in the league as a starter, but I think they've said he always been the lowest paid QB on his team. While I'm sure he wants a long term deal (and voiced frustration about how the CBA expiring hurt him and other RFA's), his $3 Mil RFA/tender contract this year and $9 million next year (even the $6 million or so if he's cut/injured) mean he will probably make more money over the next 18 months than he did his first five years in the league.


All valid points. Bottom line for all this is if Denver is still able to compete for the division or gain access to the playoffs than its a luxury to have Tebow sitting. But, if we are only getting 4-5 wins than i cant see the advantage of having him sit on the bench. If the team isnt winning than let the kid get his lumps so that when the team is ready to roll he has the experience necessary to lead the team into the future.

I'm torn about the sitting on the bench thing. I'm not convinced that the old style method of having a QB hold a clip board on the sideline for a couple years isn't better than the way they throw these guys into the fire now.


I like everything about it. If it was 3 years I'd be upset, but a 1 year extension is perfect. Orton has handled everything as well as anybody could ask for. Now go out there and light it up so Tebow can sit and learn and take the reigns when the time is right. Viva la Neckbeard.

Yep, that about sums up how I feel about it.


That list looks accurate considering thats probably guaranteed money.

They really need to fix those rookie contracts... can't believe stafford got more guaranteed money than brady and brees. I mean, SERIOUSLY?

This is from Rotoworld (http://www.rotoworld.com/content/playerpages/player_contract.aspx?sport=nfl&id=3608), they usually seem to be pretty accurate on their contract details:


10/20/2009: Signed a five-year, $49.77 million contract. The deal contains $20 million guaranteed, including a $7 million signing bonus, virtually all of Cutler's first-year salary, and $3.3 million of his 2010 base pay. Cutler can earn $500,000 workout bonuses in each year 2010-2013. 2009: $10.035 million (+ $100,000 workout bonus), 2010: $7.5 million, 2011: $8.1 million, 2012: $8.2 million, 2013: $8.9 million, 2014: Free Agent. Cap charge: $11.435 million (2009).

Looks like $7.5 million, plus possibly the $500k workout bonus.



For everyone else the franchise tag would have cost Denver about 14 to 16 plus million dollar for QB

Ok, I was wondering about the cost of franchising him. Earlier in the thread, I think I read that it would have been cheaper to franchise him, but your numbers are more what I would have expected if we went that route.

broncofaninfla
08-20-2010, 08:14 AM
The deal pretty much spells the end for Quinn. If the Broncos thought they had something there they wouldn't extend Orton. Extending Orton gives Tebow more time to develop and the Broncos more time to evaluate him as the future face of this franchise. It's a good move IMO. Though lacking in physical skills, Orton knows the offense. He'll make a good mentor for Tebow and solid backup when and if Tebow takes the lead. If Brandstater is cut from Indi I wouldn't be surprised to see Denver cut Quinn and resign Brandstater.

Nomad
08-20-2010, 08:14 AM
Stop being a drama queen.

slim's phrase of the month!!:lol:

slim
08-20-2010, 08:23 AM
slim's phrase of the month!!:lol:

August is almost over.

Check back on Sept 1 for my new phrase of the month.

Nomad
08-20-2010, 08:25 AM
The deal pretty much spells the end for Quinn. If the Broncos thought they had something there they wouldn't extend Orton. Extending Orton gives Tebow more time to develop and the Broncos more time to evaluate him as the future face of this franchise. It's a good move IMO. Though lacking in physical skills, Orton knows the offense. He'll make a good mentor for Tebow and solid backup when and if Tebow takes the lead. If Brandstater is cut from Indi I wouldn't be surprised to see Denver cut Quinn and resign Brandstater.

If Tebow doesn't play then Quinn will have plenty of gametime to prove himself and build his so called lack of confidence. He's 4 yr NFL player and I would hope he shows a little more effort than last week!!

Thnikkaman
08-20-2010, 08:34 AM
I love this move./

slim
08-20-2010, 08:37 AM
I love this move./

What are you talking about?

The season is over. Hell, the franchise is ruined.

Ravage!!!
08-20-2010, 08:46 AM
Still seems to me, that the way the contract "bonuses" are given out, that the team has allowed plenty of time to trade him away before anything is given. Its not overly expensive, so any team looking for a traveling starter can take over the "guaranteed" money without breaking any banks since its such a short term deal (not to mention any renegotiating after the trade).

I think I'm with TXBRONC on this one, and think this was purely a move to guarantee the Broncos get something in return next season instead of letting him walk for free. I just don't see it being a realistic expectation that Orton be the back-up to TT next year.

claymore
08-20-2010, 08:57 AM
What are you talking about?

The season is over. Hell, the franchise is ruined.

When McD signs an extension thats when its time to wash our mouths out with a chainsaw.

Ravage!!!
08-20-2010, 08:58 AM
When McD signs an extension thats when its time to wash our mouths out with a chainsaw.

:lol: :lol:

elsid13
08-20-2010, 09:13 AM
When McD signs an extension thats when its time to wash our mouths out with a chainsaw.

Real men love the the bubble screen

slim
08-20-2010, 09:20 AM
When McD signs an extension thats when its time to wash our mouths out with a chainsaw.

I don't see why we should wait that long.

Since McD was hired, I have actually started cutting myself again. That is the beginning of the end for me.

elsid13
08-20-2010, 09:22 AM
I don't see why we should wait that long.

Since McD was hired, I have actually started cutting myself again. That is the beginning of the end for me.

WE don't need to hear about your latest diet fad....

slim
08-20-2010, 09:28 AM
WE don't need to hear about your latest diet fad....

Don't make fun of me, sid.

I am crying as I type this.

elsid13
08-20-2010, 09:35 AM
Don't make fun of me, sid.

I am crying as I type this.


Slim, I am sorry that I made you cry. Watching a large man cry, with snot running out his nose is not a pretty sight. I will have Clay deliver 2 dozen bacon encased hot wings to relieve the pain.

claymore
08-20-2010, 09:58 AM
I don't see why we should wait that long.

Since McD was hired, I have actually started cutting myself again. That is the beginning of the end for me.

Lets buy matching sneakers for the suicide. :cry:

Northman
08-20-2010, 10:00 AM
Oh man, Clay, Slim, and Elsid have all made my day here in this thread. God i love you emo chumps. Keep it Brootal brothers. \m/ lol

T.K.O.
08-20-2010, 10:45 AM
Don't make fun of me, sid.

I am crying as I type this.

i think that should be your "saying of the month" in sept:beer:

frauschieze
08-20-2010, 10:58 AM
Slim, I am sorry that I made you cry. Watching a large man cry, with snot running out his nose is not a pretty sight. I will have Clay deliver 2 dozen bacon encased hot wings to relieve the pain.

Please have that delivery rerouted to my office. That sounds delicious and it's not nearly enough food to satisfy slim. Better to send him to two or three buffets.

LRtagger
08-20-2010, 11:09 AM
Wait, I thought we were just going to let him walk after this season regardless.

elsid13
08-20-2010, 11:32 AM
Please have that delivery rerouted to my office. That sounds delicious and it's not nearly enough food to satisfy slim. Better to send him to two or three buffets.

You right I should just send Slim some roller skates to improve his time through the buffet lines

Northman
08-20-2010, 11:34 AM
You right I should just send Slim some roller skates to improve his time through the buffet lines


:lol::lol::lol:

frauschieze
08-20-2010, 11:47 AM
You right I should just send Slim some roller skates to improve his time through the buffet lines

Now you are talking like a true friend. :salute:

TXBRONC
08-20-2010, 11:57 AM
Orton will be only 28. somebodies gonna give up a high 2nd or late 1st for a pro bowl QB. Whose a leader also. I think mcdaniels was very well thinking about the season ortons gonna have. i mean lets face it he did have a pretty damn good season last year with 3800 yards and 21 touchdowns. the OL will be better, the targets are better, were wayyyyy too deep at WR this year and orton spreads it around nicely this year which was expected since hes comfortable in the system now he does not have to lock on his best WR and force it to him 200 times. This is like the deepest WR core the broncos has ever had. Orton will indeed set the league on fire this year. Wait till thomas and deck get back on the field. Bay Bay alreadt set camp on fire with deep ball after deep ball i cant wait untill Orton gets that target back.

We'll see. Orton will have to outplay Manning, Brady and Rivers. Thomas has a tremendous amount of potential but I don't know how he's going to light it up when he can't practice because he's hurt. Also Orton wasn't forced to feed the ball Marshall. When you have three more receivers going out on most pass plays that aren't a bubble screen it's more by choice than design.

TXBRONC
08-20-2010, 12:00 PM
Wait, I thought we were just going to let him walk after this season regardless.

Ok some probably said that, but did he have one year contract extension at the time? Who here knew that Orton was going get his contract extended by a year?

Overtime
08-20-2010, 12:01 PM
he didn't earn anything really. just poor decision making by the Broncos front office.

the only thing he should have earned is to get cut from the roster.

another 2 years of Noodle arm. wonderful. :coffee:

T.K.O.
08-20-2010, 12:11 PM
cut the guy who has proven to be the clear starter at qb and has the best grasp of the system ?
that makes alot of sense:confused:
maybe we should start quinn after his stellar game the other night:shocked:

claymore
08-20-2010, 12:24 PM
cut the guy who has proven to be the clear starter at qb and has the best grasp of the system ?
that makes alot of sense:confused:
maybe we should start quinn after his stellar game the other night:shocked:

Oh you are so smug today.

T.K.O.
08-20-2010, 12:30 PM
Oh you are so smug today.

http://www.observer.com/files/full/dale.jpg

Denver Native (Carol)
08-20-2010, 12:33 PM
http://blog.denverbroncos.com/mrice/the-right-stuff/

I’m not sure what kind of year Broncos’ quarterback Kyle Orton will have. But I have a feeling it is going to be better than a lot of people think.

Orton absolutely deserves the contract extension he received and I am glad he and the Broncos came to an agreement. There is no doubt that Orton seems to have a much better command of the offense than he did a year ago. He seems to have more confidence in running it. And he seems to be unbelievably focused in doing whatever it takes to win games.

Even though it was “only” a preseason game last Sunday night, Orton was precise, efficient and creative in his limited duty. He led the Broncos to two touchdowns in the three series in which he played, marching the troops 72 yards in six plays and then taking seven plays to go 68 yards.

Orton completed 8-of-13 passes for 84 yards and two touchdowns. He found Eddie Royal on a 12-yard pass and then, according to Coach Josh McDaniels, checked out of a run play and threw an easy 6-yard scoring pass to Brandon Lloyd.

Keep in mind, this was against the Bengals’ first-team defense, a unit that was 4th-best in the NFL last year, allowing 301.4 yards per game of total offense. And the Bengals allowed an average of 18.2 points per game, 6th-best in the league.

I know, those are last year’s stats. There is no denying, however, that Cincinnati has a really good defense.

And while we’re on the topic of last year’s stats, here is one you might have missed. In his first season in a new system, Orton threw for 3,802 yards, the sixth-highest single season total in Broncos’ history. And he did it on an ankle that was hardly 100% much of the season.

I admit, I am biased. I want Kyle Orton to succeed, and not just because he plays for the Broncos. I want Kyle Orton to succeed because he seems to be a genuinely good guy.

While wanting a long-term deal, he didn’t complain about not getting one. While I imagine Orton was stung when the Broncos traded for Brady Quinn and then drafted Tim Tebow, he didn’t throw a fit. While knowing the NFL is a business, he was refreshingly candid when he said he wants to be with the Broncos for a long time.

Professionalism, class and character matter. Kyle Orton has demonstrated all three. I root for guys like that.

We all know there is more to the NFL than being a good guy. Can Orton lead the Broncos to the playoffs? I don’t know. I think he has the ability but he also will need some help for that to happen this season. There is no shame in that; most quarterbacks need help.

I won’t pretend that I think Orton is a future Hall of Famer or even one of the elite quarterbacks in the NFL right now.

But he is who the Broncos have. And I believe he is good enough to get them to where they want to go. No doubt, the Broncos could do a whole lot worse at the quarterback position.

Orton just has the right stuff. He has the right approach; that is, hard work is the foundation of success. He has the right perspective; that is, it is about winning games. And he has the right disposition; that is, he keeps his cool when things get heated.

Now all he needs is some more wins. It wouldn’t surprise me at all if he gets some of those this season.

What are your thoughts about Kyle Orton and the job he could do this year? Thanks for reading and posting.

Sincerely,
Mike

Northman
08-20-2010, 12:56 PM
Now all he needs is some more wins.

Yes, i would agree with this.

Shazam!
08-20-2010, 01:00 PM
Kyle may surprise us all in 2010.

Tempus Fugit
08-20-2010, 01:08 PM
he didn't earn anything really. just poor decision making by the Broncos front office.

the only thing he should have earned is to get cut from the roster.

another 2 years of Noodle arm. wonderful. :coffee:

It's a one year extension, so:

They aren't tied to him long-term if Tebow beats him out next year

They are protected if Tebow isn't ready next year

They get to squat on his rights for a lot less than franchise tag value.

The money will offer Orton some security and keep him from having his contract nagging at him in the back of his mind.


If you can't see the obvious positives of this, you're deliberately looking to be negative.

Cugel
08-20-2010, 01:15 PM
This still doesn't mean Orton is here next season. If Tebow isn't ready to start by next sesason, its a MAJOR MAJOR fubar on the coaching staff for selecting a first round QB that can't start.

I personally don't see this as making a difference.

Since when has this coaching staff cared about that? It's been one big FUBAR after another hasn't it?

Here's what ESPN has to say:


Right now, I’d say the odds are high are that Orton will be the starter in Denver in 2011 (http://espn.go.com/blog/nflnation/tag/_/name/kyle-orton). He wasn’t given $9 million to be a backup. Denver can always cut him if he struggles in 2010, but that won’t happen because of the big guaranteed money. So, Orton has two more years as Denver starter.

Does this mean Tebow has been a disappointment so far? No, it just allows him to grow at his own pace. There is no fast timetable or pressure on anyone -- Tebow or the organization. It has been clear to the team that Orton is much further along than Tebow, so the team gave itself some insurance.

Tebow still has a long way to go to show he can be an effective starter. His throwing motion clearly still needs refining and he has to work on his foot work. But this Orton extension is not a statement by the Broncos that it thinks drafting Tebow was a mistake. It that was the case, Orton, 27, would have been given a much longer extension.

That, of course, could happen down the road if Tebow shows he’s not ready to take over. For now, Tebow will be given the chance to grow at a fair pace and he will be used in red-zone and special formations as a rookie. If Quinn continue to falter and Tebow makes strides, Tebow will likely be Orton’s backup fairly soon.

However, Thursday’s extension may be mean Tebow will be a backup in Denver in 2011 as well as this season.


Two points:

#1 McDaniels is not entirely as dumb as I thought. Clearly he's not going to risk his career in Denver on a rookie QB. He has to impress THIS season or he's likely to be GONE. Pat Bowlen got rid of Mike Shanahan because of mediocre seasons and not making the playoffs. Two years of mediocre seasons and not making the playoffs won't do wonders for McDaniels' job security. :coffee:

#2 -- I'm not convinced this article is right. It IS probable that Orton will be on the roster in 2011 now because of the cap hit they'd take to cut him before season's end, but that does NOT mean that Tebow won't be starting next season.

Tebow DOES of course need some work (pre-season means squat people -- Matt Mauch looked like a God during the pre-season and you know how that turned out?) :coffee:

But, overall -- this is an obvious move. If Tebow flames out next season like Jamarcus Russell or Vince Young, then there's a plan B available who just might be able to save McDaniels' job. If not, you have an experienced backup who knows the system in case of injury.

topscribe
08-20-2010, 01:22 PM
he didn't earn anything really. just poor decision making by the Broncos front office.

the only thing he should have earned is to get cut from the roster.

another 2 years of Noodle arm. wonderful. :coffee:
-

Wow. Evidence doesn't mean anything to some people, does it?

http://i258.photobucket.com/albums/hh256/AZDynamics/Miscellaneous/PDHeadInSand.gif



Kyle may surprise us all in 2010.

Well yes. He already has, to those with any semblance of an open mind.

-----

Cugel
08-20-2010, 01:24 PM
Kyle may surprise us all in 2010.

I think you have to say that McDaniels may surprise us all in 2010 and 2011 by keeping Orton as the starter until 2012. Normally, you'd say there's "no chance in Hell" of that happening, right? You don't draft a rookie QB with your #1 pick and pay him all that money to let him sit on the bench for 2 seasons.

But, if McDaniels thinks Orton gives him a better chance to win, I don't think he'll hesitate to leave Tebow riding the pine -- and take the negative press criticism of his "dafting". You don't get the impression he much cares what people think of him or his decisions.

Of course it all depends on how the team performs so we could wind up seeing Tebow starting by mid-season -- just as Cutler started week 12 in 2006 even though the Broncos had a winning record under Plummer and were coming off the AFC Championship game in 2005.

Northman
08-20-2010, 01:26 PM
#1 McDaniels is not entirely as dumb as I thought. Clearly he's not going to risk his career in Denver on a rookie QB. He has to impress THIS season or he's likely to be GONE. Pat Bowlen got rid of Mike Shanahan because of mediocre seasons and not making the playoffs. Two years of mediocre seasons and not making the playoffs won't do wonders for McDaniels' job security. :coffee:



Absolutely.

topscribe
08-20-2010, 01:27 PM
Oh you are so smug today.

Looks perhaps like a little backlash from 1½ years of hammering, if you get my drift . . .

-----

Slick
08-20-2010, 01:46 PM
I think it was a good move. After seeing Quinn and Tebow play a little the other night it was clear to me that Orton is the better of the 3.

Kyle has been a pro's pro and it sounds like he has the respect of his teammates.

I've always thought getting him in return for Cutler and the picks was merely a stop gap until McD found his guy. Maybe Kyle will turn out to be his guy after all.

Having said that, I still want Tebow to turn into the stud that leads us for the next 10-15 years.

Lonestar
08-20-2010, 01:47 PM
I think you have to say that McDaniels may surprise us all in 2010 and 2011 by keeping Orton as the starter until 2012. Normally, you'd say there's "no chance in Hell" of that happening, right? You don't draft a rookie QB with your #1 pick and pay him all that money to let him sit on the bench for 2 seasons.

But, if McDaniels thinks Orton gives him a better chance to win, I don't think he'll hesitate to leave Tebow riding the pine -- and take the negative press criticism of his "dafting". You don't get the impression he much cares what people think of him or his decisions.

Of course it all depends on how the team performs so we could wind up seeing Tebow starting by mid-season -- just as Cutler started week 12 in 2006 even though the Broncos had a winning record under Plummer and were coming off the AFC Championship game in 2005.

Maybe I missed something but I thought we traded back several times to acquire more picks .

and IIRC DT was out number 1 pick in the draft. and in all actuality Tebow was our #4 pick as that was the actual pick we used for him. But then I could be wrong. I know it was not the #12 pick we had this year.

Lonestar
08-20-2010, 01:51 PM
Pat Bowlen got rid of Mike Shanahan because of mediocre seasons and not making the playoffs. .


that was only one of the reasons and it actually was for not making the playoffs for 3 years.

The last being an EPIC failure down the stretch, with all of his guys that he wanted on his team.


Pat saw the direction that mikey took us since the Lombardi's arrived and wanted to change the direction of the slide.

claymore
08-20-2010, 02:04 PM
Looks perhaps like a little backlash from 1½ years of hammering, if you get my drift . . .

-----

Now that he's paid his ankles will go into full blown chernobyl mode.

LRtagger
08-20-2010, 02:06 PM
Ok some probably said that, but did he have one year contract extension at the time? Who here knew that Orton was going get his contract extended by a year?

I knew that we weren't going to let him walk away after this season.

At least not without an attempt at keeping him or getting value for him from another team. I didn't expect him to be signed this soon, but I knew he would either extend him or franchise him for next season.

claymore
08-20-2010, 02:12 PM
I knew that we weren't going to let him walk away after this season.

At least not without an attempt at keeping him or getting value for him from another team. I didn't expect him to be signed this soon, but I knew he would either extend him or franchise him for next season.

It does clear the way for a 5th round pick from the vikings. :D

spikerman
08-20-2010, 02:15 PM
that was only one of the reasons and it actually was for not making the playoffs for 3 years.

The last being an EPIC failure down the stretch, with all of his guys that he wanted on his team.


Pat saw the direction that mikey took us since the Lombardi's arrived and wanted to change the direction of the slide.

Whew, at least with Shanahan gone we won't have to put up with any more mediocre seasons.

Tempus Fugit
08-20-2010, 02:19 PM
Thank goodness we've finally been able to get a thread that evolves into a bashing of the current coaching staff. I was worried that we'd never see one of these on the site.

Northman
08-20-2010, 02:19 PM
Whew, at least with Shanahan gone we won't have to put up with any more mediocre seasons.

wait....... :lol:



Sorry, had to.

Northman
08-20-2010, 02:20 PM
Thank goodness we've finally been able to get a thread that evolves into a bashing of the current coaching staff. I was worried that we'd never see one of these on the site.

You'll get used to it. Been going on since this site and every other Bronco forum has been online.

claymore
08-20-2010, 02:21 PM
Thank goodness we've finally been able to get a thread that evolves into a bashing of the current coaching staff. I was worried that we'd never see one of these on the site.


You'll get used to it. Been going on since this site and every other Bronco forum has been online.

It might end when we have a winning season.

spikerman
08-20-2010, 02:21 PM
wait....... :lol:



Sorry, had to.

I see your sarcasm detector is in fine working order.

Northman
08-20-2010, 02:22 PM
Thank goodness we've finally been able to get a thread that evolves into a bashing of the current coaching staff. I was worried that we'd never see one of these on the site.

http://www.filmschoolrejects.com/images/why-so-serious-1.jpg

Northman
08-20-2010, 02:23 PM
I see your sarcasm detector is in fine working order.


Its friday what can i say.

Slick
08-20-2010, 02:23 PM
It might end when we have a winning season.
Or until you start smoking again, or at least get back on the Chantrix.

dogfish
08-20-2010, 02:24 PM
August is almost over.

Check back on Sept 1 for my new phrase of the month.

i think you should go with "i am the walrus". . . :listen:

Northman
08-20-2010, 02:25 PM
Or until you start smoking again, or at least get back on the Chantrix.


Actually, i think if Clay just gets his little midget back he might be ok. He misses MO.

dogfish
08-20-2010, 02:26 PM
If you can't see the obvious positives of this, you're deliberately looking to be negative.

he's a brady quinn fanboi who just saw the writing on the wall. . . although that doesn't limit his hatred to just orton. . .

claymore
08-20-2010, 02:27 PM
Or until you start smoking again, or at least get back on the Chantrix.

Im happy. I just dont like Satan in charge of my beloved team.

Tempus Fugit
08-20-2010, 02:27 PM
You'll get used to it. Been going on since this site and every other Bronco forum has been online.

Nah.... I'll just start putting the people who can't get over things after a year and a half on ignore. It's not as if that will lessen the forum experience.

Tempus Fugit
08-20-2010, 02:28 PM
he's a brady quinn fanboi who just saw the writing on the wall. . . although that doesn't limit his hatred to just orton. . .

But it's a one year deal. People are acting as if it's a death knell for Quinn. That's not necessarily the case.

Northman
08-20-2010, 02:29 PM
Nah.... I'll just start putting the people who can't get over things after a year and a half on ignore. It's not as if that will lessen the forum experience.

Thats certainly one way to go about it.

claymore
08-20-2010, 02:29 PM
Quinn controls his own fate.

TXBRONC
08-20-2010, 02:30 PM
I knew that we weren't going to let him walk away after this season.

At least not without an attempt at keeping him or getting value for him from another team. I didn't expect him to be signed this soon, but I knew he would either extend him or franchise him for next season.

There is no way you could have known you could only guess. It just so happens that you guessed right.

Northman
08-20-2010, 02:30 PM
Quinn controls his own fate.

No he doesnt. He seems destined to suck and he has no control over that evidently. :lol:

elsid13
08-20-2010, 02:35 PM
Quinn controls his own fate.

wounder what King Neckbeard has to say about that:

http://twitter.com/kingneckbeard

Too bad Brady Quinn had to play tho. I think if there was an exposed XXXX on the field he would have put it in his mouth. He sucks that much

I Eat Staples
08-20-2010, 02:37 PM
I was extremely excited when I heard this. Quinn looked horrible, and I don't see Tebow as an NFL QB. Orton is the best we have, and he's looked excellent in TC and pre-season. Orton has shown promise, and he's certainly better than Tebow...

NightTrainLayne
08-20-2010, 02:42 PM
I was extremely excited when I heard this. Quinn looked horrible, and I don't see Tebow as an NFL QB. Orton is the best we have, and he's looked excellent in TC and pre-season. Orton has shown promise, and he's certainly better than Tebow...

Welcome to the board. :welcome:

Denver Native (Carol)
08-20-2010, 02:48 PM
I was extremely excited when I heard this. Quinn looked horrible, and I don't see Tebow as an NFL QB. Orton is the best we have, and he's looked excellent in TC and pre-season. Orton has shown promise, and he's certainly better than Tebow...

Welcome to Broncos Forums :salute: I do feel it was a very good move to extend Orton's contract; however, I do not agree with you - I think Tebow will be a very good NFL QB.

TXBRONC
08-20-2010, 02:56 PM
Welcome to Broncos Forums :salute: I do feel it was a very good move to extend Orton's contract; however, I do not agree with you - I think Tebow will be a very good NFL QB.

Agreed on both counts. It was a good move to extend Orton's contract because it gives McDaniels and the team some flexibility.

Denver Native (Carol)
08-20-2010, 03:45 PM
http://maxdenver.com/blog1/2010/08/20/creative-negotiation-got-orton-deal-done/#more-972

ENGLEWOOD, Colo. – In some precincts around the league, contract re-negotiations have gone stagnant or outright ignored, as the battle lines between owners and players are drawn in advance of a potential lockout next spring.

The Broncos have done the opposite — first with Chris Kuper, then Elvis Dumervil and now with an extra year and $9 million added to Kyle Orton’s contract.

“From talking to David Dunn, my agent, it was an interesting situation throughout the negotiations,” said Orton, who answered questions Friday after signing the extension, which keeps him in Denver through the 2011 season.

“Certainly in the labor environment we’re in, (Dunn) felt like the Broncos were very creative — that Brian Xanders, coach (Josh McDaniels) and the whole organization were very creative to try and get a deal done that we both liked and is fair for both parties.”

The key to the Broncos’ negotiating perspective is simple: act like there’s going to be a 2011 season. A protracted disagreement may seem inevitable; Orton, who is one of the Broncos’ representatives to the NFLPA, admitted that the players “are still taking the approach that we’re going to be locked out.”

“We’re hoping that’s not the case,” Orton added, “but to not prepare for something like that would be a fault by all the players.”

But the impasse won’t last forever. Whether there’s a full 2011 season, a truncated campaign or a completely lost season — there will be football at some point in the future. When that happens, teams must be constructed and contracts will be honored.

The only inevitable part of the labor dispute is that it will end. It’s wise to be prepared for next season — even if it doesn’t come off on schedule.

“We’ve gone about our business in trying to do the best thing for our team,” McDaniels said. “We understand that there is some uncertainty out there. Everybody is dealing with it and we just try to deal with it the best we can.

“Our philosophy is pretty simple: if we have players that are good solid players that can help us win, we’d like to try to keep them here.”

But as Orton and his teammates arrived for camp, he believed that no extension was in the works.

“I went into camp saying, ‘Nothing’s going to get done. I’m going to go out, have the best year of my career and have to wait until next year,’ and I was fine,” Orton said. “If something came about that we thought was fair, we were going to take it.

“It came about pretty quickly.”

ORTON LET DUNN HANDLE THE NEGOTIATONS, choosing to keep his focus on the practice field. That proved a wise choice on both counts; Orton got the deal he wanted while consolidating his position as the team’s starting quarterback.

“I hope my play tells the team that I’m the guy,” Orton said. “I feel like I’ve elevated my play and leadership and understanding of the offense. I think we’ve got a lot of guys in the huddle that see that, and that gives them that comfort.”

It comforts McDaniels, as well.

“He’s certainly a different player, there’s no question about it,” McDaniels said. “There’s things that he does now, every day, that there’s no way he was ready to do last year in our system: his ability to communicate with the players, to change plays, to get out of a bad play.”

Such as the third-and-1 at the Cincinnati 6-yard-line on Sunday night, where the Broncos went to the line of scrimmage intending to run, but changed to a pass when the Bengals crept eight men into the box.

There was “no way” Orton could have done that last year, he admitted — not just because of his own development, but that of his teammates.

“This is an offense where we do a lot of two-play calls in the huddle,” Orton said.

“I’m feeling better with that and certainly the receivers are able to adjust and take that information that I want to give them. Maybe we have two seconds on the play clock, but maybe it’s a head not or a look in the eyes or whatever and we can figure it out and get the play run how we want to run it.”

Denver Native (Carol)
08-20-2010, 04:01 PM
http://blogs.denverpost.com/broncos/2010/08/20/ortons-deal-will-be-big-hit-in-broncos-locker-room/4643/

Broncos players and coaches are at Dove Valley going through their final game preparations for Saturday’s preseason game against Detroit. I expect Kyle Orton is getting more than a few handshakes and pats on the back from his teammates.

Orton, as we all know by now, just signed a one-year contract extension that will pay him $8.8 million in 2011 on top of the $2.62 million he will make this season as the team’s starting quarterback.

Other players were not available for interviews today — typical team policy for the day before games — but I imagine the news of Orton’s extension went over very well.

Not only is Orton a popular guy in the locker room and the unquestioned leader of the offense, it was clear throughout training camp that Orton is, by far, the team’s best quarterback. His teammates noticed, and know that Orton gives the team the best chance to win now. Not to mention that if the quarterback is happy, it certainly helps morale for the rest of the team.

Orton’s extension should also send a message to the rest of the team that players can work and play their way into more money and a longer contract.

“I think our philosophy is pretty simple,” coach Josh McDaniels said. “I mean, if we have players in this locker room that are good, solid players that we feel like that can help us win, we would like to try to keep them here. This gives us an opportunity to continue that with Kyle.”

I Eat Staples
08-20-2010, 04:13 PM
Welcome to the board. :welcome:

Thanks! :salute:


Welcome to Broncos Forums :salute: I do feel it was a very good move to extend Orton's contract; however, I do not agree with you - I think Tebow will be a very good NFL QB.

Thanks! :salute:

And as for Tebow being a good NFL QB, he has a lot to prove in my eyes before I consider him anything more than a player that was picked far too high. He hasn't had to read defenses, so he's going to struggle there, and he has to release the ball quicker. Even in our first preseason game, that reversed call on the fumble (which was obviously an incomplete pass) was caused by Tebow not releasing the ball quickly, and not noticing the defender coming from the blindside.

Tebow did play pretty well in that game, but against future practice squad players if that. He has a lot of work to do to become a legitimate QB. I'm not saying he can't, but I wouldn't bet on it. I surely hope he proves me wrong, and at the very least Orton's extension will give him more time to develop.

TXBRONC
08-20-2010, 04:28 PM
Since when has this coaching staff cared about that? It's been one big FUBAR after another hasn't it?

Here's what ESPN has to say:



Two points:

#1 McDaniels is not entirely as dumb as I thought. Clearly he's not going to risk his career in Denver on a rookie QB. He has to impress THIS season or he's likely to be GONE. Pat Bowlen got rid of Mike Shanahan because of mediocre seasons and not making the playoffs. Two years of mediocre seasons and not making the playoffs won't do wonders for McDaniels' job security. :coffee:

#2 -- I'm not convinced this article is right. It IS probable that Orton will be on the roster in 2011 now because of the cap hit they'd take to cut him before season's end, but that does NOT mean that Tebow won't be starting next season.

Tebow DOES of course need some work (pre-season means squat people -- Matt Mauch looked like a God during the pre-season and you know how that turned out?) :coffee:

But, overall -- this is an obvious move. If Tebow flames out next season like Jamarcus Russell or Vince Young, then there's a plan B available who just might be able to save McDaniels' job. If not, you have an experienced backup who knows the system in case of injury.

Agreed another mediocre season or worse wont help matters however, the drafting of Tebow may have bought McDaniels an extra year. I think this season would have to be a complete stinker for him to be on the hot seat next year something along the lines of 5 wins or less.

I remember watching Matt Mauch but I sure don't remember him looking like a god in his first training camp I also remember him looking terrible in his second and then getting cut.

I agree Jamarcus Russell flamed out he was first round bust just waiting to happen. I don't follow how Young fits into that category since he's still in the League and if I'm not mistaken he's going start for the Titan this year. Yes Tebow might not make it but hopefully he will. Tebow has strong work ethic something Russell NEVER had.

jhildebrand
08-20-2010, 04:29 PM
Lol

Well, i wouldnt really put Orton in Brees or Rivers class but i do get the drift or your point. Considering the options out there at the QB position Orton is one of the better ones to have considering and the fact its only a 1 year deal is nice. In the long run i dont think Tebow will have that much trouble learning the system or being ready in a years time but the question is will he live long enough taking shots like he did the other night.

Well its hard to consider him to those guys...right now! Remember, SD let Brees walk because at the end of the day they BELIEVED all the limitations the goofy sports writers continued to label him with-too short, not NFL QB material, etc... Rivers took time to learn the system too.

You should know me by now, North. I guess all I am trying to say is, even I have been super critical of Orton, let's reserve FINAL judgement for the end of this season.

jhildebrand
08-20-2010, 04:32 PM
This still doesn't mean Orton is here next season. If Tebow isn't ready to start by next sesason, its a MAJOR MAJOR fubar on the coaching staff for selecting a first round QB that can't start.

I personally don't see this as making a difference.

So was it a fubar for SD to draft Rivers? :confused: After all he sat for a while. Rodgers sat. Kolb has sat.

I think the only thing it clarifies is that McD is in the camp of sit a QB instead of baptism by fire.

jhildebrand
08-20-2010, 04:37 PM
Rivers would have started from day one if he didn't hold out.

Funny... he didn't beat out Brees the following season despite being in camp on time. So to say he would have been the starter save holding out simply doesn't hold water.

Denver Native (Carol)
08-20-2010, 04:39 PM
Thanks! :salute:



Thanks! :salute:

And as for Tebow being a good NFL QB, he has a lot to prove in my eyes before I consider him anything more than a player that was picked far too high. He hasn't had to read defenses, so he's going to struggle there, and he has to release the ball quicker. Even in our first preseason game, that reversed call on the fumble (which was obviously an incomplete pass) was caused by Tebow not releasing the ball quickly, and not noticing the defender coming from the blindside.

Tebow did play pretty well in that game, but against future practice squad players if that. He has a lot of work to do to become a legitimate QB. I'm not saying he can't, but I wouldn't bet on it. I surely hope he proves me wrong, and at the very least Orton's extension will give him more time to develop.

He is a rookie - all rookies have a lot to learn, all rookies need to learn the system, the players around them, all rookies make mistakes. etc., etc., etc. I certainly am not going to say that Tebow will fail, after one preseason game.

TXBRONC
08-20-2010, 04:43 PM
So was it a fubar for SD to draft Rivers? :confused: After all he sat for a while. Rodgers sat. Kolb has sat.

I think the only thing it clarifies is that McD is in the camp of sit a QB instead of baptism by fire.

If Rivers hadn't of held out he may have started his rookie season. By the time Rivers signed there was just no way he was going to overtake Brees in camp. Then course Brees went out and had pro bowl season so they franchised him so I guess that pretty much guaranteed that Rivers was going to have sit for one more season. Kolb and Rogers were sitting behind two of the better quarterbacks in the League so those weren't going to start away.

I Eat Staples
08-20-2010, 04:53 PM
He is a rookie - all rookies have a lot to learn, all rookies need to learn the system, the players around them, all rookies make mistakes. etc., etc., etc. I certainly am not going to say that Tebow will fail, after one preseason game.

I'm not basing it off the preseason game, I just used that game as an example. I've been very skeptical of Tebow since the draft.

arapaho2
08-20-2010, 05:34 PM
A $9 million year would seem to speak a lot for his arm and his talent, wouldn't it?

-----


i'd say it speaks more to josh realizing tebow isnt pro ready and wont be fully a starting caliber qb for a while....a 1st round project

BroncoWave
08-20-2010, 05:38 PM
So was it a fubar for SD to draft Rivers? :confused: After all he sat for a while. Rodgers sat. Kolb has sat.

I think the only thing it clarifies is that McD is in the camp of sit a QB instead of baptism by fire.

As did Schaub.

Ravage!!!
08-20-2010, 05:54 PM
So was it a fubar for SD to draft Rivers? :confused: After all he sat for a while. Rodgers sat. Kolb has sat.

I think the only thing it clarifies is that McD is in the camp of sit a QB instead of baptism by fire.

Yeah, but RIvers sat behind Brees. Rodgers behind Brett Favre. Kolb behind McNabb (plus we don't know if Kolb will be crap, yet). YOu are talking about three of the best QBs in the NFL. Kyle Orton is NOT in that category.

Plus.. if SD didn't draft Rivers, they could have kept Brees and used that 5th pick on another position, or traded down and gotten MORE picks. You telling me that the Chargers wouldn't have been BETTER off with Brees and addition talent on that SD team instead of drafting yet another QB?

THe Packers wouldn't have drafted Rodgers had they really believed that Favre wasn't going to retire. They believed he had one more year in him, and drafted Rodgers to sit behind one of the greatest to ever play.

3rd).. Do you KNOW that Rivers and Rodgers gained anything from sitting two years? No. You speculate simply because they sat. I'm willing to bet that they would have been the same QBs whether they sat or not.. and would have gone through their lumps sooner. Ask either one of them if they feel they learned more from carrying a clip board, or from playing on the field.

If you use 4 picks to draft a 1st round QB, then I believe he BETTER be ready to start by the second season. Not to say that he's a complete bust if he doesn't, but it absolutely was a fubar to use so many picks to grab a QB that can't even start for 3 years? really? If he needed that much work to get on the field, why was he taken in the first round? How is it that QBs all over the NFL are able to start from game one, but we are trying to say that its "ok" to sit a QB for 2 seasons behind Kyle Orton after spending that kind of loot to get him? Thats a FUBAR pick, imo, if thats the scenario that plays out.

Ravage!!!
08-20-2010, 06:06 PM
Funny... he didn't beat out Brees the following season despite being in camp on time. So to say he would have been the starter save holding out simply doesn't hold water.

you just made the point for me that it wasn't a great idea to draft Rivers.

Brees played poorly enough for the Chargers to draft a top 5 talent at QB. Everyone knew that it was Rivers job when drafted... but he sat out expecting to get #1 overall money since he was traded for the player taken at that spot.

They put the franchise tag on Brees and had a single season to see who they were going to keep and who they were going to trade away. They don't gain anything by sitting Brees. They were paying him Franchise tag money for a single season. Sitting him gave them squat...either by determining if he was the guy, OR, letting him showcase his abilities for trade.

Had Brees not injured his shoulder at the end of the season, and putting "doubt" into the minds of the Chargers, they would have kept Drew. Instead they opted for Rivers who had a healthy shoulder and was being paid top 5 money and sitting the bench.

topscribe
08-20-2010, 07:07 PM
i'd say it speaks more to josh realizing tebow isnt pro ready and wont be fully a starting caliber qb for a while....a 1st round project

Of course you would. But how does that make sense? It would not explain to me
why they are paying a QB more than Brady, Brees, or Cutler is making this year,
just to babysit Tebow. It doesn't explain why the Broncos chose to execute a
contract now, when Orton had already suggested he would play on to the best of
his ability, one way or another.

You can stubbornly hang on to your dislike for Orton as a QB. But that puts you in
disagreement with the entire Broncos organization, from Mr. Bowlen to Xanders to
the coaches to the players, all who have observed Orton every single day in camp
and every single day the entire year before.

-----

claymore
08-20-2010, 07:11 PM
If Orton was so beloved we wouldnt have draftedTebow or brought in Quinn :barf:. Lets not forget it was what a year extension? So if he does well this year we have some options.

JamesNrvAttackr
08-20-2010, 07:24 PM
Even in our first preseason game, that reversed call on the fumble (which was obviously an incomplete pass) was caused by Tebow not releasing the ball quickly, and not noticing the defender coming from the blindside.



Actually that hit wasn't a blindside hit. It would be considered a front side hit.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dv8ak0J91-c
Approx 1:40s
The sack against Kentucky where he got his concussion was also a
front side hit. I see that incorrectly described as a blindside hit alot.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wf7Kw_D4_5g

I'm not trying to pick on Tebow.

Orton did the same thing on the first offensive play at Baltimore last year.
Sacked hard frontside that he should of seen earlier.
http://www.nfl.com/videos/nfl-game-highlights/09000d5d813e0ced/NFL-GameDay-Broncos-vs-Ravens-highlights
Man what a crap game that was.

Not trying to pretend I'm Mr. Football analyst. Just that they both should
have seen or felt the rush earlier.

I Eat Staples
08-20-2010, 07:28 PM
Actually that hit wasn't a blindside hit. It would be considered a front side hit.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dv8ak0J91-c
Approx 1:40s
The sack against Kentucky where he got his concussion was also a
front side hit. I see that incorrectly described as a blindside hit alot.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wf7Kw_D4_5g

I'm not trying to pick on Tebow.

Orton did the same thing on the first offensive play at Baltimore last year.
Sacked hard frontside that he should of seen earlier.
http://www.nfl.com/videos/nfl-game-highlights/09000d5d813e0ced/NFL-GameDay-Broncos-vs-Ravens-highlights
Man what a crap game that was.

Not trying to pretend I'm Mr. Football analyst. Just that they both should
have seen or felt the rush earlier.

Yeah that was frontside, my bad I'm not used to having a lefty under center :D. But yeah the point was he should have recognized the pass rush coming and got out of the way or just threw it away.

spikerman
08-20-2010, 07:48 PM
You can stubbornly hang on to your dislike for Orton as a QB. But that puts you in
disagreement with the entire Broncos organization, from Mr. Bowlen to Xanders to
the coaches to the players, all who have observed Orton every single day in camp
and every single day the entire year before.

----- Personally, I'm pretty neutral on Orton. I think he's an average pro QB that probably won't be able to take a team to the Super Bowl without a dominant defense. Basically, imo, he is the dreaded "game manager".

Regarding the part of your post that I quoted above, personally I'm not that sold on Xanders' or McDaniels' talent evaluation skills as of yet. Because of that, I'm not sure that disagreeing with current management is such a bad thing or automatically makes a person wrong.

I Eat Staples
08-20-2010, 07:51 PM
Regarding the part of your post that I quoted above, personally I'm not that sold on Xanders' or McDaniels' talent evaluation skills as of yet. Because of that, I'm not sure that disagreeing with current management is such a bad thing or automatically makes a person wrong.

Despite my support for Orton, I completely agree with that. Xanders and McDaniels have done nothing but give us reason to be skeptical, IMO, and that is an understatement.

NightTrainLayne
08-20-2010, 07:55 PM
Yeah, but RIvers sat behind Brees. Rodgers behind Brett Favre. Kolb behind McNabb (plus we don't know if Kolb will be crap, yet). YOu are talking about three of the best QBs in the NFL. Kyle Orton is NOT in that category.


This is kind of 20/20 hindsight don't you think? Brees and McNabb weren't considered top three QB's at the time really. Certainly Brees wasn't.

topscribe
08-20-2010, 07:58 PM
Personally, I'm pretty neutral on Orton. I think he's an average pro QB that probably won't be able to take a team to the Super Bowl without a dominant defense. Basically, imo, he is the dreaded "game manager".

Regarding the part of your post that I quoted above, personally I'm not that sold on Xanders' or McDaniels' talent evaluation skills as of yet. Because of that, I'm not sure that disagreeing with current management is such a bad thing or automatically makes a person wrong.

I guess you missed it: I said from Mr. Bowlen to Xanders to the coaches to the
players. You cited only Xanders and McDaniels: I cited about 100 people. I'm
talking about Champ ("He's my guy"), Darrell Reid, who volunteered his
endorsement of Orton (not just responded to a question), and Brandon Marshall
(who doesn't compliment anybody he doesn't feel like complimenting) - among
many others.

Nonetheless, while you are questioning McDaniels' evaluation of talent, remind
yourself that he worked personally with one Tom Brady - quite a standard to
go by.

All my arguments, for which I have been ridiculed and hammered over the last
1½ years, don't seem so hilarious $8.8 million later, do they? The naysayers,
who are rabidly hanging onto their unfounded opinions, are the ones who are
looking increasingly silly now . . .

-----

spikerman
08-20-2010, 08:10 PM
I guess you missed it: I said from Mr. Bowlen to Xanders to the coaches to the
players. You cited only Xanders and McDaniels: I cited about 100 people. I'm
talking about Champ ("He's my guy"), Darrell Reid, who volunteered his
endorsement of Orton (not just responded to a question), and Brandon Marshall
(who doesn't compliment anybody he doesn't feel like complimenting) - among
many others. It's really only Xanders and McDaniels' opinions that matter. I'll choose to take Bowlen at his word and believe that he doesn't get involved in the football nuts and bolts such as the talent evaluation process. As for the players, what are they going to say? Do you honestly think they would criticize their current starting quarterback? I'll discount Champ's opinion specifically. After all, this was the guy who told us that Slowik was the just what the defense needed. Like I said, I'm pretty neutral on Orton. I don't really get excited about him, but he's not terrible either. He's an average NFL calibre QB so I'm not out just to criticize the guy.



Nonetheless, while you are questioning McDaniels' evaluation of talent, remind
yourself that he worked personally with one Tom Brady - quite a standard to
go by. His work with Tom Brady has nothing to do with talent evaluation. If he had been the one to spot the "diamond in the rough" of a scrawny Michigan QB that's one thing. His job was to work with him and improve his performance. I believe Brady was already a pretty established quarterback by the time he and McDaniels started working closely together.


All my arguments, for which I have been ridiculed and hammered over the last
1½ years, don't seem so hilarious $8.8 million later, do they? The naysayers,
who are rabidly hanging onto their unfounded opinions, are the ones who are
looking increasingly silly now . . .

----- Like I said, I'm not so sure that I trust the Broncos' management's evaluation skills enough to say this was a good idea. I hope that it turns out great for Denver and not that they're thinking that they have to make the best of a bad situation.

nevcraw
08-20-2010, 08:19 PM
http://insider.espn.go.com/nfl/features/rumors#5768

Orton's Denver future

On Thursday, the Denver Broncos announced that they had extended the contract of quarterback Kyle Orton for one more season (through 2011).

Orton's uncertain future was one of the many facets to the discussion on Tim Tebow's progress towards starting. One idea out there was that with Orton set to hit free agency this upcoming offseason, that would mean that Tebow would be in line to seriously compete for the starting gig for 2011. Now that Orton will be back, Tebow's chances of being the 2011 starter have been reduced, it would seem.

Perhaps the lever that made the extension for Orton happen was actually Brady Quinn. If the new deal hadn't happened, the Broncos would go into the 2011 offseason with Quinn and Tebow; should Tebow still be unready to start, they'd be stuck with Quinn. Given what we saw against Cincinnati this past Sunday, that isn't something that anyone in the organization likely wants.
- Tim Kavanagh

__________________________________________________ ________________

Exactly!

TXBRONC
08-20-2010, 08:27 PM
http://insider.espn.go.com/nfl/features/rumors#5768

Orton's Denver future

On Thursday, the Denver Broncos announced that they had extended the contract of quarterback Kyle Orton for one more season (through 2011).

Orton's uncertain future was one of the many facets to the discussion on Tim Tebow's progress towards starting. One idea out there was that with Orton set to hit free agency this upcoming offseason, that would mean that Tebow would be in line to seriously compete for the starting gig for 2011. Now that Orton will be back, Tebow's chances of being the 2011 starter have been reduced, it would seem.

Perhaps the lever that made the extension for Orton happen was actually Brady Quinn. If the new deal hadn't happened, the Broncos would go into the 2011 offseason with Quinn and Tebow; should Tebow still be unready to start, they'd be stuck with Quinn. Given what we saw against Cincinnati this past Sunday, that isn't something that anyone in the organization likely wants.
- Tim Kavanagh

__________________________________________________ ________________

Exactly!

I think it was a good move on McDaniels part and I think Orton deserved the bump in salary. But its still just a one year extention.

topscribe
08-20-2010, 08:29 PM
It's really only Xanders and McDaniels' opinions that matter. I'll choose to take Bowlen at his word and believe that he doesn't get involved in the football nuts and bolts such as the talent evaluation process. As for the players, what are they going to say? Do you honestly think they would criticize their current starting quarterback? I'll discount Champ's opinion specifically. After all, this was the guy who told us that Slowik was the just what the defense needed. Like I said, I'm pretty neutral on Orton. I don't really get excited about him, but he's not terrible either. He's an average NFL calibre QB so I'm not out just to criticize the guy.

Excuse me, but last time you singled out Xanders and McDaniels, and now you
single out Champ. You glossed over Darrell Reid, who I said volunteered his
praise of Orton without being asked and Brandon Marshall, who is not a
teammate of Orton's. And I provided those examples as representations of
others.

Okay, so you say only Xanders' and McDaniels' opinions count. So you think
they gave Orton $9 million because Orton is a teammate and they don't want
to speak bad of him? McDaniels gushed over Orton in his presser, and he had
that contract to back what he said. Orton was awarded more than what
Brady, Brees, or Cutler will make this year, according to the Denver Post.

Now, you offered your evaluation of Orton. That's fine. But on what are you
basing it? His play last year? Are you denying that his two high ankle sprains
hampered his play? Because even Orton finally admitted he was playing "on
two flat tires" and did not have his usual velocity or accuracy, he said. So if
he was "average" last year, then that doesn't apply to now, but it really
makes him look good (to those who will admit it) next to the "average" QBs
who played healthy, which would include virtually all of them.



His work with Tom Brady has nothing to do with talent evaluation. If he had been the one to spot the "diamond in the rough" of a scrawny Michigan QB that's one thing. His job was to work with him and improve his performance. I believe Brady was already a pretty established quarterback by the time he and McDaniels started working closely together.

So you are telling me that, after McDaniels worked with Brady every single
day, day after day, day after day, for several years, that he did not know
what a good QB is? Your answer is to tell me what his job was? Brady was a
pretty established quarterback by the time he and McDaniels started working
closely together. Therefore, McDaniels learned firsthand what a quality QB is
by working closely with a well established Tom Brady. See how you made my
point?


Like I said, I'm not so sure that I trust the Broncos' management's evaluation skills enough to say this was a good idea. I hope that it turns out great for Denver and not that they're thinking that they have to make the best of a bad situation.

Well, you don't trust their management skills, but you trust your own to make
the evaluation of what level Orton plays. Now, I don't mean anything personal,
but that seems kind of turned around, doesn't it? I mean, that is their job. No,
I trust their judgment in this one area more than I do yours. Sorry . . .

-----

I Eat Staples
08-20-2010, 08:41 PM
I guess you missed it: I said from Mr. Bowlen to Xanders to the coaches to the
players. You cited only Xanders and McDaniels: I cited about 100 people. I'm
talking about Champ ("He's my guy"), Darrell Reid, who volunteered his
endorsement of Orton (not just responded to a question), and Brandon Marshall
(who doesn't compliment anybody he doesn't feel like complimenting) - among
many others.

Nonetheless, while you are questioning McDaniels' evaluation of talent, remind
yourself that he worked personally with one Tom Brady - quite a standard to
go by.

All my arguments, for which I have been ridiculed and hammered over the last
1½ years, don't seem so hilarious $8.8 million later, do they? The naysayers,
who are rabidly hanging onto their unfounded opinions, are the ones who are
looking increasingly silly now . . .

-----

He had nothing at all to do with Tom Brady. Tom Brady was an established superstar by the time McD even worked with him. And for those who think McD made Cassell a good QB: look how Cassell played in KC. It's not hard to be decent in McD's gimmick spread offense.

topscribe
08-20-2010, 08:45 PM
He had nothing at all to do with Tom Brady. Tom Brady was an established superstar by the time McD even worked with him. And for those who think McD made Cassell a good QB: look how Cassell played in KC. It's not hard to be decent in McD's gimmick spread offense.



So you are telling me that, after McDaniels worked with Brady every single
day, day after day, day after day, for several years, that he did not know
what a good QB is? Your answer is to tell me what his job was? Brady was a
pretty established quarterback by the time he and McDaniels started working
closely together. Therefore, McDaniels learned firsthand what a quality QB is
by working closely with a well established Tom Brady. See how you made my
point?


Did you skip over this? Or did you just ignore it? Because if you are going to
respond to me, please acknowledge all what I said. Don't cherry-pick my
comments and try to argue that with me.

Ironically - and humorously - it is Cassel who has nothing to do with this. :laugh:

But I know what you are saying (even though it is entirely irrelevant to the
topic at hand). Now, I don't know about Cassell's situation, but I do know
that Orton was "decent" in Chicago the year before - and it was not in
McDaniel's system.

-----

TXBRONC
08-20-2010, 08:52 PM
Personally, I'm pretty neutral on Orton. I think he's an average pro QB that probably won't be able to take a team to the Super Bowl without a dominant defense. Basically, imo, he is the dreaded "game manager".

Regarding the part of your post that I quoted above, personally I'm not that sold on Xanders' or McDaniels' talent evaluation skills as of yet. Because of that, I'm not sure that disagreeing with current management is such a bad thing or automatically makes a person wrong.

Maybe you should change your name to Switzerland? :D

spikerman
08-20-2010, 08:58 PM
Excuse me, but last time you singled out Xanders and McDaniels, and now you
single out Champ. You glossed over Darrell Reid, who I said volunteered his
praise of Orton without being asked and Brandon Marshall, who is not a
teammate of Orton's. And I provided those examples as representations of
others. I singled out Bailey specifically because he has been known to gush over people in the past that haven't exactly worked out. I also asked what you expected the players to say. As for Marshall, he hasn't taken a shot at anybody in the Broncos' organization since he left. Besides, he was Orton's favorite, some would say only, target last year. I'm sure Marshall loves the guy.



Okay, so you say only Xanders' and McDaniels' opinions count. So you think
they gave Orton $9 million because Orton is a teammate and they don't want
to speak bad of him? McDaniels gushed over Orton in his presser, and he had
that contract to back what he said. Orton was awarded more than what
Brady, Brees, or Cutler will make this year, according to the Denver Post. This goes back to my point of not being sold on their judgement yet. Personally, I'm not concerned with how much they're paying him. If you're trying to tell me that he's comparable to Brees and Brady I think that would pretty much be the end of our discussion. Cutler is a different story.



Now, you offered your evaluation of Orton. That's fine. But on what are you
basing it? His play last year? Are you denying that his two high ankle sprains
hampered his play? Because even Orton finally admitted he was playing "on
two flat tires" and did not have his usual velocity or accuracy, he said. So if
he was "average" last year, then that doesn't apply to now, but it really
makes him look good (to those who will admit it) next to the "average" QBs
who played healthy, which would include virtually all of them. Not everything is based off of last year. Yes he had ankle problems last year, just like every year it seems. I know you like to bring up his arm strength and that's fine, but he has not had the reputation of having a rocket in the NFL. As I said earlier, I think he's an average NFL QB. With that, I think he has an "average" NFL arm. I also think almost all quarterbacks nowdays play with some type of injury. Some are worse than others. I have no way of knowing if Orton's was worse than some of the other's.



So you are telling me that, after McDaniels worked with Brady every single
day, day after day, day after day, for several years, that he did not know
what a good QB is? Your answer is to tell me what his job was? Brady was a
pretty established quarterback by the time he and McDaniels started working
closely together. Therefore, McDaniels learned firsthand what a quality QB is
by working closely with a well established Tom Brady. Again, we're talking about talent evaluation. A lot of coaches work with players every day and can turn an average or "good" player into a great player, but that doesn't mean they have the skillset to identify those players on the way up.
See how you made my point? Unfortunately, no I don't.



Well, you don't trust their management skills, but you trust your own to make
the evaluation of what level Orton plays. Now, I don't mean anything personal,
but that seems kind of turned around, doesn't it? I mean, that is their job. No,
I trust their judgment in this one area more than I do yours. Sorry . . .

-----
Hmm, well if you go back and read my posts you'll see that I'm only giving my opinion of how I see things. I never claimed to know more, just that my opinion differs from the Broncos' braintrust. Again, in my opinion, I haven't seen Xanders or McDaniels do anything to prove that they are great at spotting talent. You certainly can't prove it by the drafts they've had so far. That's not to say that some of the players they've drafted won't be good, but so far none of their choices have been difference makers (yes I know it's early, but it would have been nice to see someone really stand out last year). Let me just say that for the sake of my favorite team, I hope you're right Top. I'm just skeptical.

I Eat Staples
08-20-2010, 09:07 PM
Did you skip over this? Or did you just ignore it? Because if you are going to
respond to me, please acknowledge all what I said. Don't cherry-pick my
comments and try to argue that with me.

Ironically - and humorously - it is Cassel who has nothing to do with this. :laugh:

But I know what you are saying (even though it is entirely irrelevant to the
topic at hand). Now, I don't know about Cassell's situation, but I do know
that Orton was "decent" in Chicago the year before - and it was not in
McDaniel's system.

-----

If you're being serious and not sarcastic, then actually I quoted your post but did something else before typing my full reply. It wasn't until I submitted it that I saw your other post.

And, actually, Cassell does have something to do with this as much as Brady does. Both were coached by McD.

And also in regard to Brady, he didn't even get along with McD. This is to be expected, McD is extremely hard to get along with. He has shown he can't deal with egos. This is a major weakness in an NFL coach, as the majority of talented NFL players have large egos. Instead of trying to coach these players and build character in them, he got rid of them. Bold and selfish, and he has yet to see any positive results.

topscribe
08-20-2010, 09:10 PM
I singled out Bailey specifically because he has been known to gush over people in the past that haven't exactly worked out. I also asked what you expected the players to say. As for Marshall, he hasn't taken a shot at anybody in the Broncos' organization since he left. Besides, he was Orton's favorite, some would say only, target last year. I'm sure Marshall loves the guy.

This goes back to my point of not being sold on their judgement yet. Personally, I'm not concerned with how much they're paying him. If you're trying to tell me that he's comparable to Brees and Brady I think that would pretty much be the end of our discussion. Cutler is a different story.

Not everything is based off of last year. Yes he had ankle problems last year, just like every year it seems. I know you like to bring up his arm strength and that's fine, but he has not had the reputation of having a rocket in the NFL. As I said earlier, I think he's an average NFL QB. With that, I think he has an "average" NFL arm. I also think almost all quarterbacks nowdays play with some type of injury. Some are worse than others. I have no way of knowing if Orton's was worse than some of the other's.

Again, we're talking about talent evaluation. A lot of coaches work with players every day and can turn an average or "good" player into a great player, but that doesn't mean they have the skillset to identify those players on the way up. Unfortunately, no I don't.


Hmm, well if you go back and read my posts you'll see that I'm only giving my opinion of how I see things. I never claimed to know more, just that my opinion differs from the Broncos' braintrust. Again, in my opinion, I haven't seen Xanders or McDaniels do anything to prove that they are great at spotting talent. You certainly can't prove it by the drafts they've had so far. That's not to say that some of the players they've drafted won't be good, but so far none of their choices have been difference makers (yes I know it's early, but it would have been nice to see someone really stand out last year). Let me just say that for the sake of my favorite team, I hope you're right Top. I'm just skeptical.

"Everyone plays with an injury" is a common comeback to that, which is ironic
because it is nowhere near an answer to it. That is not the point - and I hope
you can get it because those who stubbornly want to bash Orton can't seem to.

I'm talking about how the specific injury of a high ankle sprain affects the
passing ability. Now, I don't feel like going into detail because I have broken
it down and carefully explained the physiological aspects of a high ankle sprain,
as it affects a QB's passing ability, several times already. I will say it adversely
affects both the velocity and accuracy of a pass. I'm tired of going over all
the rest. But "everyone plays with injuries" is NOT an answer to it.

Am I repeating myself? You bet. Because I have had to explain that again and
again, ad nauseam, and it still hasn't done any good. And now that Orton
himself has explained it, it still doesn't matter.

But then, your allusion that I am trying to equate Orton with Brady and Brees
indicates to me that - you're right - we should not be having this discussion.
I never indicated anything of the sort. :tsk:

-----

spikerman
08-20-2010, 09:12 PM
you're right - we should not be having this discussion.----- Agreed.

Ravage!!!
08-20-2010, 09:18 PM
This is kind of 20/20 hindsight don't you think? Brees and McNabb weren't considered top three QB's at the time really. Certainly Brees wasn't.

Fair enough..... Brees wasn't a top QB but McNabb certainly was. He was taking his team to consecutive NFC Championships before Kolb was drafted. If Brees was, I agree SD wouldn't have drafted Rivers. But thats not really a normal situation that occured. Its so rare, I can't think of another one like it.

topscribe
08-20-2010, 09:22 PM
If you're being serious and not sarcastic, then actually I quoted your post but did something else before typing my full reply. It wasn't until I submitted it that I saw your other post.

And, actually, Cassell does have something to do with this as much as Brady does. Both were coached by McD.

And also in regard to Brady, he didn't even get along with McD. This is to be expected, McD is extremely hard to get along with. He has shown he can't deal with egos. This is a major weakness in an NFL coach, as the majority of talented NFL players have large egos. Instead of trying to coach these players and build character in them, he got rid of them. Bold and selfish, and he has yet to see any positive results.

I'm not prepared to discuss McDaniels' human relations because that is wandering
way off the topic.

But McDaniels coached both Orton and Brandstater, too. And he also coached
Simms. He also coached Matt Gutierrez with NE. Does that mean they also
are relevant to the issue?

I am saying that a person who has worked with the likes of Tom Brady, day
after day, week after week, month after month, for several years would know
what a good QB looks like, unless he is retarded or something - and I am
certain McDaniels is not retarded.

I don't know why this has become such a big issue. But then, I have seen it
before: someone will pick out a side remark and just pick and pick on it. Leave
it alone, for pity's sake, and concentrate on the big picture. Wow.

-----

I Eat Staples
08-20-2010, 09:23 PM
Fair enough..... Brees wasn't a top QB but McNabb certainly was. He was taking his team to consecutive NFC Championships before Kolb was drafted. If Brees was, I agree SD wouldn't have drafted Rivers. But thats not really a normal situation that occured. Its so rare, I can't think of another one like it.

It still confuses me as to how Brees went from being an average QB on the decline to being the consensus 2nd best QB in the NFL. :confused:

Looks like Orton still has hope. :D

TXBRONC
08-20-2010, 09:25 PM
It still confuses me as to how Brees went from being an average QB on the decline to being the consensus 2nd best QB in the NFL. :confused:

Looks like Orton still has hope. :D

Brees was younger when the light bulb popped on. ;)

I Eat Staples
08-20-2010, 09:25 PM
I'm not prepared to discuss McDaniels' human relations because that is wandering
way off the topic.

But McDaniels coached both Orton and Brandstater, too. And he also coached
Simms. He also coached Matt Gutierrez with NE. Does that mean they also
are relevant to the issue?

I am saying that a person who has worked with the likes of Tom Brady, day
after day, week after week, month after month, for several years would know
what a good QB looks like, unless he is retarded or something - and I am
certain McDaniels is not retarded.

I don't know why this has become such a big issue. But then, I have seen it
before: someone will pick out a side remark and just pick and pick on it. Leave
it alone, for pity's sake, and concentrate on the big picture. Wow.

-----

I'm not sure what your point is. I support Orton as well as you do. I do not, however, support McDaniels. And if he knows what a good NFL QB looks like, why did he draft Tebow in the first round? He certainly doesn't have the same qualities Tom Brady does...

topscribe
08-20-2010, 09:31 PM
I'm not sure what your point is. I support Orton as well as you do. I do not, however, support McDaniels. And if he knows what a good NFL QB looks like, why did he draft Tebow in the first round? He certainly doesn't have the same qualities Tom Brady does...

I'm not sure why you don't know what my point is. I thought I stated it very
clearly. I think you have to go back to my original post and try to read it in
context. My point is well laid out there, as it usually is.

Nonetheless, is that an argument? - I mean the "why draft Tebow" bit? That
has been tossed around by the naysayers all along. I guess it was fairly
effective until Orton got the $9 million contract. Now, that can be countered
with, "Why did the Broncos give Orton such a huge salary so early?" See how
that works?

In both cases, they are poor arguments because neither proves anything,
other than the Broncos have a high opinion of both players. So I don't know
what the point is there . . .

P.S. I'm not a big fan of McDaniels, and I think that is known here. However,
I do credit him for being extremely intelligent, and I think he can recognize
both excellence and and shortcomings as easily as anybody.

-----

TXBRONC
08-20-2010, 09:33 PM
I'm not sure what your point is. I support Orton as well as you do. I do not, however, support McDaniels. And if he knows what a good NFL QB looks like, why did he draft Tebow in the first round? He certainly doesn't have the same qualities Tom Brady does...

Why did McDaniels take Tebow in the first round? Because there was rumor that the Bills were trying to move into 25th slot to take Tebow. So if McDaniels really wanted which he had to do it. Also I do remember reading that a lot pundits thought Tebow could possible go late in the first round. It just happens I saw one mock draft that had him going with 25th pick.

To be fair all 32 teams passed on Brady for 5 full rounds. I saw interview with Scott Pioli and said that if they had know what kind of quarterback would turnout to be they would have selected him in the first round.

Tempus Fugit
08-20-2010, 09:50 PM
I'm not sure what your point is. I support Orton as well as you do. I do not, however, support McDaniels. And if he knows what a good NFL QB looks like, why did he draft Tebow in the first round? He certainly doesn't have the same qualities Tom Brady does...

What are these Brady qualities that Tebow is missing?

I Eat Staples
08-20-2010, 09:56 PM
I'm not sure why you don't know what my point is. I thought I stated it very
clearly. I think you have to go back to my original post and try to read it in
context. My point is well laid out there, as it usually is.

Nonetheless, is that an argument? - I mean the "why draft Tebow" bit? That
has been tossed around by the naysayers all along. I guess it was fairly
effective until Orton got the $9 million contract. Now, that can be countered
with, "Why did the Broncos give Orton such a huge salary so early?" See how
that works?

In both cases, they are poor arguments because neither proves anything,
other than the Broncos have a high opinion of both players. So I don't know
what the point is there . . .

P.S. I'm not a big fan of McDaniels, and I think that is known here. However,
I do credit him for being extremely intelligent, and I think he can recognize
both excellence and and shortcomings as easily as anybody.

-----

Those are two very different QBs. If McD thinks one of them is going to be the guy, I don't see how he could think very highly of the other.


Why did McDaniels take Tebow in the first round? Because there was rumor that the Bills were trying to move into 25th slot to take Tebow. So if McDaniels really wanted which he had to do it. Also I do remember reading that a lot pundits thought Tebow could possible go late in the first round. It just happens I saw one mock draft that had him going with 25th pick.

To be fair all 32 teams passed on Brady for 5 full rounds. I saw interview with Scott Pioli and said that if they had know what kind of quarterback would turnout to be they would have selected him in the first round.

Of course they would say that about Brady now, but passing up on him was not a bad choice back then, it wasn't even considered to take him higher than where he went. He was a backup to Brian Griese for pete's sake.

It doesn't seem smart to take Tebow in the first round. If the Bills wanted to trade up and "overpay" for him, I say let them have him. Now if Tebow becomes a great QB, McD will look good. As a Broncos fan, I'd love to see that happen. But looking at the pick in the present, not the future, I feel the chances of Tebow becoming a great QB are too low to trade up and draft him. Obviously McD felt differently.

Northman
08-20-2010, 09:56 PM
The naysayers,
who are rabidly hanging onto their unfounded opinions, are the ones who are
looking increasingly silly now . . .

-----


Emm, not really. If Orton was truly "franchise" material he would be locked up longterm. And its not uncommon for a player to get as much as he can on shorter contracts. Most of the time they want at least a longterm deal to have that security blanket but if they cant get that the agent then tries to get the best deal they can. Actually, the fact that Orton has been endorsed by the coach (like he would actually publically state any different) yet did not lock him up longterm goes against your arguement. Some have already pointed to that should Tebow not be ready by the end of the this year that they wont have to worry about Orton bailing in the FA market. This was just a common sense move but because he got a nice chunk of change does not mean he is HOF material.

I Eat Staples
08-20-2010, 09:58 PM
What are these Brady qualities that Tebow is missing?

Reading defenses, throwing motion, quick release, pocket presence, accuracy, decision making. Now I don't know how far along Brady was in these things when he entered the NFL, and obviously the scouts didn't think he was any better than Tebow. But just comparing the two, fairly or unfairly, it is what it is.

topscribe
08-20-2010, 10:02 PM
Emm, not really. If Orton was truly "franchise" material he would be locked up longterm. And its not uncommon for a player to get as much as he can on shorter contracts. Most of the time they want at least a longterm deal to have that security blanket but if they cant get that the agent then tries to get the best deal they can. Actually, the fact that Orton has been endorsed by the coach (like he would actually publically state any different) yet did not lock him up longterm goes against your arguement. Some have already pointed to that should Tebow not be ready by the end of the this year that they wont have to worry about Orton bailing in the FA market. This was just a common sense move but because he got a nice chunk of change does not mean he is HOF material.

Why do people do that? Where did I use the term "Franchise" or suggest Orton
is "HOF material"? Why has that so consistently happened, that people have
attributed to me things I never said?

-----

Tempus Fugit
08-20-2010, 10:03 PM
Reading defenses, throwing motion, quick release, pocket presence, accuracy, decision making. Now I don't know how far along Brady was in these things when he entered the NFL, and obviously the scouts didn't think he was any better than Tebow. But just comparing the two, fairly or unfairly, it is what it is.

To make the "accuracy" claim in the face of Tebow's completion percentage is silly. To make the decision making claim when Tebow's a rookie is to note that the sun rises in the east and sets in the west. To make the pocket presence comment when Tebow is a rookie is to point out that water is wet. Really, the only legitimate point you raised is regarding Tebow's release. Essentially, your argument is that Tebow isn't as good as the QB who just might be the best who's ever played the game, and that Tebow's lack of experience leads to QB issues.

You're not exactly deciphering the Rosetta stone here.

Tned
08-20-2010, 10:10 PM
Nah.... I'll just start putting the people who can't get over things after a year and a half on ignore. It's not as if that will lessen the forum experience.

I'm curious if you are also bothered by and going to put on ignore the people that a year and a half later want to turn every thread into an opportunity to bash the former head coach and former players? Just curious.


http://insider.espn.go.com/nfl/features/rumors#5768

Perhaps the lever that made the extension for Orton happen was actually Brady Quinn. If the new deal hadn't happened, the Broncos would go into the 2011 offseason with Quinn and Tebow; should Tebow still be unready to start, they'd be stuck with Quinn. Given what we saw against Cincinnati this past Sunday, that isn't something that anyone in the organization likely wants.
- Tim Kavanagh

__________________________________________________ ________________

Exactly!

Sitting at dinner tonight, I was saying the same thing. That I think there is a pretty good chance that the Orton extension had less to do with their concern about how long it will take Tebow to start, and more to do with believing Quinn isn't starter or backup material on the Broncos.

I Eat Staples
08-20-2010, 10:13 PM
To make the "accuracy" claim in the face of Tebow's completion percentage is silly. To make the decision making claim when Tebow's a rookie is to note that the sun rises in the east and sets in the west. To make the pocket presence comment when Tebow is a rookie is to point out that water is wet. Really, the only legitimate point you raised is regarding Tebow's release. Essentially, your argument is that Tebow isn't as good as the QB who just might be the best who's ever played the game, and that Tebow's lack of experience leads to QB issues.

You're not exactly deciphering the Rosetta stone here.

No, my argument is that all rookies need to develop those things, but Tebow starts at an extreme disadvantage due to playing in an offense that didn't require him to read defenses at all. Also, he relies on his running ability to make him a better passer, and I certainly have my doubts about Tebow running the ball in the NFL.

topscribe
08-20-2010, 10:16 PM
Those are two very different QBs. If McD thinks one of them is going to be the guy, I don't see how he could think very highly of the other.

Why not? I am a HUGE fan of both Johnny Unitas and John Elway. There is
absolutely no similarity between the two. Can't I like them both?

Same with Orton and Tebow. Yes, they are very different. But both represent
wins in the NFL, albeit in their own ways, so why can't the coach have a high
opinion of both? He obviously does.



Of course they would say that about Brady now, but passing up on him was not a bad choice back then, it wasn't even considered to take him higher than where he went. He was a backup to Brian Griese for pete's sake.

I assume you're talking about Orton because Brady never did back up Griese.
Brady did back up Bledsoe. So, regarding Orton, did you miss Orton's comment
that with the Broncos is the first time he has gotten a fair chance? You are
not considering all of the factors.



It doesn't seem smart to take Tebow in the first round. If the Bills wanted to trade up and "overpay" for him, I say let them have him. Now if Tebow becomes a great QB, McD will look good. As a Broncos fan, I'd love to see that happen. But looking at the pick in the present, not the future, I feel the chances of Tebow becoming a great QB are too low to trade up and draft him. Obviously McD felt differently.

I'm taking the same position on Tebow as I have always taken on Orton: Let's
wait and see. At this point, we have no idea how good either QB can be.

-----

Tempus Fugit
08-20-2010, 10:35 PM
I'm curious if you are also bothered by and going to put on ignore the people that a year and a half later want to turn every thread into an opportunity to bash the former head coach and former players? Just curious.

1.) I find it bothersome to a message board whenever an event is past by a long period of time and people keep worrying at it like dogs on a bone.

2.) I've got 3 people from here on ignore, total. If it were just about silencing the McDaniels critics, I'd have to add another dozen, at a minimum. I'm just about as supportive of the idea of critical opposition as anyone you'll ever meet. It's not about that, though, it's about ruining thread after thread after thread.

This thread is a perfect example. There was absolutely no need to turn this into yet another MacDaniels bashing thread. The usual suspects, along with a new poster, decided to go that route anyway. And, as usual, you decided to go with the moral equivalence approach. This stuff's all become a pattern here. Hell, my pointing it out has even become part of the pattern, and that's why I'm pondering the ignore approach on a larger scale.

Lonestar
08-20-2010, 10:40 PM
It's really only Xanders and McDaniels' opinions that matter. I'll choose to take Bowlen at his word and believe that he doesn't get involved in the football nuts and bolts such as the talent evaluation process. As for the players, what are they going to say? Do you honestly think they would criticize their current starting quarterback? I'll discount Champ's opinion specifically. After all, this was the guy who told us that Slowik was the just what the defense needed. Like I said, I'm pretty neutral on Orton. I don't really get excited about him, but he's not terrible either. He's an average NFL calibre QB so I'm not out just to criticize the guy.

His work with Tom Brady has nothing to do with talent evaluation. If he had been the one to spot the "diamond in the rough" of a scrawny Michigan QB that's one thing. His job was to work with him and improve his performance. I believe Brady was already a pretty established quarterback by the time he and McDaniels started working closely together.

Like I said, I'm not so sure that I trust the Broncos' management's evaluation skills enough to say this was a good idea. I hope that it turns out great for Denver and not that they're thinking that they have to make the best of a bad situation.

actually the players have a lot to do with how the coaches and FO feel about him. IF he was a dick like say Griese was, and was being forced into the position then indeed the other players can make him look really bad.

Something that his team mates have not done.

As for Brady yep he was a pretty good QB that set a bunch of records while working with Josh and had nothing be good things to say about learning a lot from him.

As for trusting Josh and the rest of the coaching team well, I suspect they do not lose sleep about it.

JamesNrvAttackr
08-20-2010, 10:43 PM
I assume you're talking about Orton because Brady never did back up Griese.
Brady did back up Bledsoe.

-----

Top,
I think he is talking at Michigan, in College.
Not really fair though, Brady was only a Freshman and Sophmore at the time. :confused:

Tempus Fugit
08-20-2010, 10:49 PM
No, my argument is that all rookies need to develop those things, but Tebow starts at an extreme disadvantage due to playing in an offense that didn't require him to read defenses at all. Also, he relies on his running ability to make him a better passer, and I certainly have my doubts about Tebow running the ball in the NFL.

So your argument is that you don't like Tebow because he's Tebow. That's fine, but it's not really much of an argument. As for the "offense" argument, given that the McDaniels offense has borrowed liberally from the Florida University schemes, you've probably got that one just about 180 degrees out of phase, because the reads will have similarities, making the adjustment a bit easier for Tebow.

By the way, the QB in this month's draft who'll have the hardest time learning to read defenses based upon college experience (plays were called in from the sideline by the staff, with almost no reads made by the QB) went #1 overall.

Lonestar
08-20-2010, 10:52 PM
Top,
I think he is talking at Michigan, in College.
Not really fair though, Brady was only a Freshman and Sophmore at the time. :confused:

IIRC griese only started one year in college his senior year. But then I could be wrong.

topscribe
08-20-2010, 11:14 PM
Top,
I think he is talking at Michigan, in College.
Not really fair though, Brady was only a Freshman and Sophmore at the time. :confused:

Oh, okay. Well, in that case, Griese was a very good QB in college - and in the
pros, for that matter, until he messed up his shoulder, after which he never
seemed the same. So I'm not sure what his point was there . . .

-----

Northman
08-20-2010, 11:21 PM
Why do people do that? Where did I use the term "Franchise" or suggest Orton
is "HOF material"? Why has that so consistently happened, that people have
attributed to me things I never said?

-----

Its how you go about defending him. You keep making these statements that he is getting paid more than the Brady's and Manning's in one year like he is supposed to be in the same league as them. I suppose when you stop making those comparisons than the "idea" that your trying to classify him in that way will stop. Pretty simple when you break it all down mate.

spikerman
08-20-2010, 11:33 PM
As for trusting Josh and the rest of the coaching team well, I suspect they do not lose sleep about it.
That's good 'cause some of those coaches need their beauty sleep.

JamesNrvAttackr
08-21-2010, 12:56 AM
IIRC griese only started one year in college his senior year. But then I could be wrong.
Yes, you are correct. I remembered Griese started games his Sophmore 1995 and Junior 1996 years. But he wasn't THE starter. Scott Dreisbach was per wikipedia. Man the Michigan University site isn't easy to find older info.

Tned
08-21-2010, 07:21 AM
1.) I find it bothersome to a message board whenever an event is past by a long period of time and people keep worrying at it like dogs on a bone.

2.) I've got 3 people from here on ignore, total. If it were just about silencing the McDaniels critics, I'd have to add another dozen, at a minimum. I'm just about as supportive of the idea of critical opposition as anyone you'll ever meet. It's not about that, though, it's about ruining thread after thread after thread.

This thread is a perfect example. There was absolutely no need to turn this into yet another MacDaniels bashing thread. The usual suspects, along with a new poster, decided to go that route anyway. And, as usual, you decided to go with the moral equivalence approach. This stuff's all become a pattern here. Hell, my pointing it out has even become part of the pattern, and that's why I'm pondering the ignore approach on a larger scale.

I can't put someone on ignore, even if I wanted to, but having said that I never have done it on any board where I wasn't the admin.

When it comes to bashing for the sake of bashing McDaniels, I agree. It's different with him, because he is the current coach, and the current coach is always going to be criticized and second guessed. I would say the HC and QB typically get the most criticism on boards, from what I have seen.

What I find much more tiresome is taking threads about the current Broncos, and turning them into Shanahan/Cutler/etc. bashing threads. A few years ago, we had the same thing happening where people were turning threads in Plummer bashing threads a year or more after he retired.

It just gets old

topscribe
08-21-2010, 07:41 AM
Its how you go about defending him. You keep making these statements that he is getting paid more than the Brady's and Manning's in one year like he is supposed to be in the same league as them. I suppose when you stop making those comparisons than the "idea" that your trying to classify him in that way will stop. Pretty simple when you break it all down mate.

I can't help it if you cannot get the point I'm trying to make. I am not writing it
at a very high scholastic level. But I don't believe there is an excuse for
dishonest misrepresentation of my writing. So, regardless of your reasons, it
behooves you either to be honest in your representations of my posts or to stop
your representations altogether.

-----

Elevation inc
08-21-2010, 07:45 AM
well i decided to skip the last 100 post of craziness since i last checked this thread.

I am not a huge kyle orton fan but i dont know how someone could watch his press conference on the contract extension and not come away impressed.

I have been in kyle opposite corner for sometime, but after watching his latest press conference and MCd's as well. I am fully behind Orton this year. I dont give a rats ass about quinn or tebow at the moment other than that they keep working hard in case of injury to orton. I untill kyle proves me other wise support him as the starting QB and face of this team.....


This guy deserves respect, very few players in the pros carry themselves the way kyle does, and that does not get enough credit around here. We all want wins, wins, and more wins. But its nice for a change having a Qb with a great attitude, great work ethic, and a newfound confidence. Im telling you Kyle is in for a big year. He looked like a scared puppy in all his press conferences and in games last year, so far that has not been the case.....


Kyle......get er done buddy so these boards can get back to normal.....haha

broncophan
08-21-2010, 07:53 AM
"Orton Earns Contract Extension"...............the key word there is "earns"......obviously it is not always about playoff wins etc....we all know that.....just look at what rookies make coming into the league.
I look forward to Orton having a great season...

HORSEPOWER 56
08-21-2010, 08:56 AM
I assume you're talking about Orton because Brady never did back up Griese.
Brady did back up Bledsoe. So, regarding Orton, did you miss Orton's comment
that with the Broncos is the first time he has gotten a fair chance? You are
not considering all of the factors.


I think he was maybe talking about in college at Michigan? I really don't pay attention to Michigan football but IIRC, Brady was Drew Henson's backup, not Brian Griese's

I'm really hopeful for Orton this year. I'd like to see him become what some think he can. I've got nothing but respect for the way he's handled off-field adversity this season. He's been everything you could possibly ask for in your starting QB off the field. Now, lets see how he handles this offense. Nothig will be a bigger indicator than if he can win with the way the roster is right now. No real established playmakers and a dinged up o-line. Our offense is the current definition of "adversity", especially if Clady doesn't return.

Tonight's game vs Detroit will be a good indicator. If he's for real, he should have no trouble duplicating what he did last Sunday vs Cincy because the Lions defense is pretty poor.

topscribe
08-21-2010, 09:19 AM
I think he was maybe talking about in college at Michigan? I really don't pay attention to Michigan football but IIRC, Brady was Drew Henson's backup, not Brian Griese's

Yes, thanks. James called that to my attention, as I revealed below. Brady is
an amazing story. Buried in the depth chart as an underclassman, drafted in
the 6th round . . . shows a player never can be categorically counted out.


Top,
I think he is talking at Michigan, in College.
Not really fair though, Brady was only a Freshman and Sophmore at the time. :confused:


Oh, okay. Well, in that case, Griese was a very good QB in college - and in the
pros, for that matter, until he messed up his shoulder, after which he never
seemed the same. So I'm not sure what his point was there . . .

-----




I'm really hopeful for Orton this year. I'd like to see him become what some think he can. I've got nothing but respect for the way he's handled off-field adversity this season. He's been everything you could possibly ask for in your starting QB off the field. Now, lets see how he handles this offense. Nothig will be a bigger indicator than if he can win with the way the roster is right now. No real established playmakers and a dinged up o-line. Our offense is the current definition of "adversity", especially if Clady doesn't return.

Tonight's game vs Detroit will be a good indicator. If he's for real, he should have no trouble duplicating what he did last Sunday vs Cincy because the Lions defense is pretty poor.

Even though you haven't been a fan of Orton's, you have maintained an open
mind. I have to hand it to you for that . . .

-----

Denver Native (Carol)
08-21-2010, 09:38 AM
http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/trainingcamp10/news/story?id=5480191

ENGLEWOOD, Colo. -- Kyle Orton swears he never saw the arrivals of Brady Quinn and Tim Tebow as a sign of disrespect from the Denver Broncos, only another challenge to embrace.

"I think that's the case for 26, 27 teams in the NFL. They're always trying to replace the quarterback," Orton said Friday, about 15 hours after signing a one-year extension that shows how strong his hold is on the starting job.

"That's just life in this league, life at this position. They're going to try to bring in somebody better and younger and all that stuff," Orton said. "But ultimately, as long as the decision is made on the field and based on play, you really can't have any gripes about it. Fortunately, that's been the case and I've played well."

Orton has made great strides in both his grasp and execution of coach Josh McDaniels' intricate offense in his second season in Denver. Plus, he's not dealing with two bum ankles as he was last season.

As a result, Orton, who threw two TD passes in his three series during the preseason opener at Cincinnati, now is signed through 2011 with more than $8 million guaranteed.

The deal not only gives Orton some of the security he's long sought but also provides Tebow, the former Florida star, with some time to develop into a pro-set passer and offers Quinn time to learn the complex system after three up-and-down seasons in Cleveland.

McDaniels said Tebow and Quinn shouldn't view this development as a dialing down of the pressure because he wants them to continue pushing the incumbent for his starting job.

"I hope there's pressure on all our players to try to compete to play as soon as they can," McDaniels said. "I think the fact of the matter is Kyle's the starter, has played like the starter, is playing very well and playing at a different level than Tim or Brady both play at. ... So, maybe it's a challenge for them, Brady and Tim both."

Orton, who is 29-19 as a starter in Chicago and Denver, has shown no hint that he's ready to relinquish his starting job, and now he's got the contract to prove it.

"I hope my play is what tells the team that I'm the guy," Orton said. "I think I've elevated my play, I've elevated my leadership, I've elevated my understanding of the offense. So, I think we've got a lot of guys in the huddle that have seen that and I hope that's what really gives them that comfort."

All offseason and especially during training camp, McDaniels not only saw how far Tebow and Quinn have to go but how far Orton's come.

"He's certainly a different player, there's no question about it," McDaniels said. "There's things that he does now every day that there's no way he was ready to do last year in our system: his ability to communicate with our players, to change plays, to get out of a bad play. I think the trust that the players have in him ... That's something that comes with time, experience, knowledge, hard work and just repetition.

"And I think that Kyle came back in the spring and was a different player, and we didn't have any practices between January and May. So, he was different right from the get-go. He carried that all the way through the spring and then certainly has come into training camp ready to go and has improved there, too."

Not that Orton was lost after coming over in the Jay Cutler trade -- after all, he had his best statistical season last year, setting career highs in nearly every passing category, including throwing for 3,802 yards -- but his bad ankles messed up his throwing mechanics and the Broncos lost eight of their last 10 to finish at .500.

When he watches Tebow and Quinn struggle to understand or direct Denver's complex offense, Orton feels their frustration, having been there himself not that long ago.

"There's always growing pains when you're coming in," Orton said.

With a year under his belt, a season's worth of plays to look back on and his ankles no longer ailing, Orton was able to vastly improve his play.

"I feel like I've come a really long way in three months and feel like there's still a ton of room for exponential growth," he said.

Orton, who signed a $2.621 million tender in the spring, said he was resigned to playing out the 2010 season as a lame duck quarterback before his agent, David Dunn, and Broncos general manager Brian Xanders came up with the one-year extension Thursday that's worth about $9 million with $5.5 million guaranteed.

"I just went into the whole camp saying nothing's going to get done, I'm going to have the best year of my career and have to wait until next year," Orton said. "And I was fine with that. If something came about that we thought was fair, we were going to take it, and it kind of came about pretty quickly."

McDaniels said the one-year extension "wasn't the only thing discussed. But I think everybody kind of felt this is a good alternative, a good option for all of us, something we both wanted to do."

NOTES
The Broncos have signed free agent linebacker Worrell Williams, the younger brother of Denver inside linebacker D.J. Williams.

Tned-Mobile
08-21-2010, 09:45 AM
Love those Orton quotes Carol just posted. If they let it be decided on the field and he wins, he should start and get paid.
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LordTrychon
08-21-2010, 10:08 AM
Love those Orton quotes Carol just posted. If they let it be decided on the field and he wins, he should start and get paid.
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Paying players only hurts the team... :laugh:

But yeah, you're right. :salute:

I loved the part where he mentioned that 26 teams are looking for the better answer at QB. Smart guy.

Denver Native (Carol)
08-21-2010, 10:18 AM
Kyle talked about his extension yesterday - Under 3 http://www.denverbroncos.com/

rcsodak
08-21-2010, 10:43 AM
The deal is understandable considering the options out there. But i do hope Tebow catches on fast and can surplant him as soon as possible.

"surplant"? I don't think Tebow is into whatever that is......

:confused:

rcsodak
08-21-2010, 10:46 AM
Orton couldnt gimmick his way out of a paper bag.

Probably wouldn't trip over one, either.

rcsodak
08-21-2010, 10:53 AM
This still doesn't mean Orton is here next season. If Tebow isn't ready to start by next sesason, its a MAJOR MAJOR fubar on the coaching staff for selecting a first round QB that can't start.

I personally don't see this as making a difference.

What BS.

How many examples of 1st rounders not starting in their initial 2yrs would you like as an example?

How about 1 to wet your appetite?

Maybe you've heard of him????


Philip Rivers - drafted 2004, STARTED 2006


Your bias shows in every post you make, rav.

rcsodak
08-21-2010, 10:54 AM
Someone might need to call him. He could be on suicide watch.

QUIT!

Now I might pee myself a little......

TXBRONC
08-21-2010, 10:57 AM
Sitting at dinner tonight, I was saying the same thing. That I think there is a pretty good chance that the Orton extension had less to do with their concern about how long it will take Tebow to start, and more to do with believing Quinn isn't starter or backup material on the Broncos.

I wasn't thinking about this when I was responding to Nevcraw. It does make alot sense that this very well could have more to do with McDaniels not believing that Quinn isn't starter or back up material.

TXBRONC
08-21-2010, 11:02 AM
Its how you go about defending him. You keep making these statements that he is getting paid more than the Brady's and Manning's in one year like he is supposed to be in the same league as them. I suppose when you stop making those comparisons than the "idea" that your trying to classify him in that way will stop. Pretty simple when you break it all down mate.

It's not a fair imo comparision. Guys like Brady and Manning are being paid out over several years Orton's is for one year.

Northman
08-21-2010, 11:19 AM
I can't help it if you cannot get the point I'm trying to make. I am not writing it
at a very high scholastic level. But I don't believe there is an excuse for
dishonest misrepresentation of my writing. So, regardless of your reasons, it
behooves you either to be honest in your representations of my posts or to stop
your representations altogether.

-----

You should be in politics, your great at spinning. :lol:

rcsodak
08-21-2010, 11:20 AM
I get what you are saying. But imo, if he cant' beat out a journeyman type QB after his first season in the NFL, then the draft decision takes a SERIOUS hit.

Who you talking about, again?

Cutler?
Favre?`
McNair?
McNabb?
Schaub?
Montana?

They all ended up on different teams, as well.

And the picks you elude to? McD ACQUIRED them all with the intention of using them on Tebow.

Northman
08-21-2010, 11:22 AM
It's not a fair imo comparision. Guys like Brady and Manning are being paid out over several years Orton's is for one year.

Exactly, poor examples that should of never been brought up.

spikerman
08-21-2010, 11:37 AM
Who you talking about, again?

Cutler?
Favre?`
McNair?
McNabb?
Schaub?
Montana?

They all ended up on different teams, as well.

And the picks you elude to? McD ACQUIRED them all with the intention of using them on Tebow. I'm not sure it's fair to include Favre, McNair, McNabb, or Montana on this list. Yes, they ultimately played for different teams, but that was after long and distinguished careers with one team. Favre was traded after one year with the Falcons, but that was well before anybody had any idea of how good he would ultimately become.

Personally, I'm ok with Orton; I just wouldn't expect Denver to challenge for a championship as long as he is the starter unless it builds a dominant defense. Unfortunately, I don't think defense is the current head coach's top priority and I don't think Denver is that close to being dominant.

rcsodak
08-21-2010, 11:41 AM
Ok some probably said that, but did he have one year contract extension at the time? Who here knew that Orton was going get his contract extended by a year?

Maybe just the fact that Some here are able to THINK? :confused:

You might be amazed at the number of posters that have had businesses of their own. Or can think on their feet and look forward.

It's not like we're all just a bunch of community organizers....... :elefant:

Ravage!!!
08-21-2010, 12:06 PM
I'm not sure it's fair to include Favre, McNair, McNabb, or Montana on this list. Yes, they ultimately played for different teams, but that was after long and distinguished careers with one team. Favre was traded after one year with the Falcons, but that was well before anybody had any idea of how good he would ultimately become.

Personally, I'm ok with Orton; I just wouldn't expect Denver to challenge for a championship as long as he is the starter unless it builds a dominant defense. Unfortunately, I don't think defense is the current head coach's top priority and I don't think Denver is that close to being dominant.

rc doesn't get many responses because all his arguments have already been covered. If he would take the time and read ahead and realize that he's not the only one with the same ideas, he would see that his points have already been aired by another poster, and answered.

There is no way anyone with any football knowledge would put Favre, McNair, McNabb, nor Montana anywhere NEAR the term "journeyman" simply because they ended their career on another team. Each one of those QBs played a minimum of ten years with a single franchise. Thats not the same as being on 2 teams in 5 seasons, and on your third by your 7th.

rcsodak
08-21-2010, 12:12 PM
Emm, not really. If Orton was truly "franchise" material he would be locked up longterm. And its not uncommon for a player to get as much as he can on shorter contracts. Most of the time they want at least a longterm deal to have that security blanket but if they cant get that the agent then tries to get the best deal they can. Actually, the fact that Orton has been endorsed by the coach (like he would actually publically state any different) yet did not lock him up longterm goes against your arguement. Some have already pointed to that should Tebow not be ready by the end of the this year that they wont have to worry about Orton bailing in the FA market. This was just a common sense move but because he got a nice chunk of change does not mean he is HOF material.


Updated: August 20, 2010, 6:45 PM ET
Tim Tebow, Brady Quinn could benefit

Associated Press

ENGLEWOOD, Colo. -- Kyle Orton swears he never saw the arrivals of Brady Quinn and Tim Tebow as a sign of disrespect from the Denver Broncos, only another challenge to embrace.

"I think that's the case for 26, 27 teams in the NFL. They're always trying to replace the quarterback," Orton said Friday, about 15 hours after signing a one-year extension that shows how strong his hold is on the starting job.

Kyle Orton's extension likely ensures Brady Quinn, left, and Tim Tebow will get time to develop and learn the Broncos' complex offense.

"That's just life in this league, life at this position. They're going to try to bring in somebody better and younger and all that stuff," Orton said. "But ultimately, as long as the decision is made on the field and based on play, you really can't have any gripes about it. Fortunately, that's been the case and I've played well."

Orton has made great strides in both his grasp and execution of coach Josh McDaniels' intricate offense in his second season in Denver. Plus, he's not dealing with two bum ankles as he was last season.

As a result, Orton, who threw two TD passes in his three series during the preseason opener at Cincinnati, now is signed through 2011 with more than $8 million guaranteed.

The deal not only gives Orton some of the security he's long sought but also provides Tebow, the former Florida star, with some time to develop into a pro-set passer and offers Quinn time to learn the complex system after three up-and-down seasons in Cleveland.

McDaniels said Tebow and Quinn shouldn't view this development as a dialing down of the pressure because he wants them to continue pushing the incumbent for his starting job.

"I hope there's pressure on all our players to try to compete to play as soon as they can," McDaniels said. "I think the fact of the matter is Kyle's the starter, has played like the starter, is playing very well and playing at a different level than Tim or Brady both play at. ... So, maybe it's a challenge for them, Brady and Tim both."

Orton, who is 29-19 as a starter in Chicago and Denver, has shown no hint that he's ready to relinquish his starting job, and now he's got the contract to prove it.

"I hope my play is what tells the team that I'm the guy," Orton said. "I think I've elevated my play, I've elevated my leadership, I've elevated my understanding of the offense. So, I think we've got a lot of guys in the huddle that have seen that and I hope that's what really gives them that comfort."

All offseason and especially during training camp, McDaniels not only saw how far Tebow and Quinn have to go but how far Orton's come.

"He's certainly a different player, there's no question about it," McDaniels said. "There's things that he does now every day that there's no way he was ready to do last year in our system: his ability to communicate with our players, to change plays, to get out of a bad play. I think the trust that the players have in him ... That's something that comes with time, experience, knowledge, hard work and just repetition.

"And I think that Kyle came back in the spring and was a different player, and we didn't have any practices between January and May. So, he was different right from the get-go. He carried that all the way through the spring and then certainly has come into training camp ready to go and has improved there, too."


Not that Orton was lost after coming over in the Jay Cutler trade -- after all, he had his best statistical season last year, setting career highs in nearly every passing category, including throwing for 3,802 yards -- but his bad ankles messed up his throwing mechanics and the Broncos lost eight of their last 10 to finish at .500.

When he watches Tebow and Quinn struggle to understand or direct Denver's complex offense, Orton feels their frustration, having been there himself not that long ago.

"There's always growing pains when you're coming in," Orton said.

With a year under his belt, a season's worth of plays to look back on and his ankles no longer ailing, Orton was able to vastly improve his play.

"I feel like I've come a really long way in three months and feel like there's still a ton of room for exponential growth," he said.

Orton, who signed a $2.621 million tender in the spring, said he was resigned to playing out the 2010 season as a lame duck quarterback before his agent, David Dunn, and Broncos general manager Brian Xanders came up with the one-year extension Thursday that's worth about $9 million with $5.5 million guaranteed.

"I just went into the whole camp saying nothing's going to get done, I'm going to have the best year of my career and have to wait until next year," Orton said. "And I was fine with that. If something came about that we thought was fair, we were going to take it, and it kind of came about pretty quickly."

McDaniels said the one-year extension "wasn't the only thing discussed. But I think everybody kind of felt this is a good alternative, a good option for all of us, something we both wanted to do."

NOTES
The Broncos have signed free agent linebacker Worrell Williams, the younger brother of Denver inside linebacker D.J. Williams.


Copyright 2010 by The Associated Press
http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/trainingcamp10/news/story?id=5480191

rcsodak
08-21-2010, 12:23 PM
I can't put someone on ignore, even if I wanted to, but having said that I never have done it on any board where I wasn't the admin.

When it comes to bashing for the sake of bashing McDaniels, I agree. It's different with him, because he is the current coach, and the current coach is always going to be criticized and second guessed. I would say the HC and QB typically get the most criticism on boards, from what I have seen.

What I find much more tiresome is taking threads about the current Broncos, and turning them into Shanahan/Cutler/etc. bashing threads. A few years ago, we had the same thing happening where people were turning threads in Plummer bashing threads a year or more after he retired.

It just gets old
Sorry to interject, but I sensed my name being thought of.....

Tned, the only time we bring up Shanny/Cutler, etc, are when the CURRENT Broncos, (McD/Orton) get unfairly thrown under a bus for the same happenings of their predecessors. I'd think that was apparent by now.

topscribe
08-21-2010, 02:35 PM
You should be in politics, your great at spinning. :lol:

Whatever you want to call it.

I just don't want what I never said to be attributed to me. That's all.

-----

broncophan
08-21-2010, 03:57 PM
I'm not sure it's fair to include Favre, McNair, McNabb, or Montana on this list. Yes, they ultimately played for different teams, but that was after long and distinguished careers with one team. Favre was traded after one year with the Falcons, but that was well before anybody had any idea of how good he would ultimately become.

Personally, I'm ok with Orton; I just wouldn't expect Denver to challenge for a championship as long as he is the starter unless it builds a dominant defense. Unfortunately, I don't think defense is the current head coach's top priority and I don't think Denver is that close to being dominant.

I haven't expected Denver to challenge for a championship since #7 retired......doesn't mean they can't.....they did with Plummer........but without Elway.....most (realistic) fans would say they have never expected a championship......just need everything in place......and that is what the organization is trying to do.....imo...

jhildebrand
08-21-2010, 04:35 PM
Yeah, but RIvers sat behind Brees. Rodgers behind Brett Favre. Kolb behind McNabb (plus we don't know if Kolb will be crap, yet). YOu are talking about three of the best QBs in the NFL. Kyle Orton is NOT in that category.

Well at the time there were PLENTY of knocks on Brees. That was a large part in their letting him walk. Of course the shoulder injury played into it. However, to say he was one of the best in the league when Rivers was sitting behind him is a fallacy, IMO.

All we heard were the knocks on Brees: too short, not NFL ready, etc... It really wasn't until he landed with Payton in NO that he became the QB we know today. Shoot that O made Tony Romo the "next Favre" :lol:



Plus.. if SD didn't draft Rivers, they could have kept Brees and used that 5th pick on another position, or traded down and gotten MORE picks. You telling me that the Chargers wouldn't have been BETTER off with Brees and addition talent on that SD team instead of drafting yet another QB?

Hindsight is 20/20. In retrospect AJ in SD and their FO would agree with you as do I. The problem is we have to look at it as it happened. SD and their FO bought into the idiotic knocks on Brees. It is only with the benefit of hindsight that one can clearly say they F'ed up. But personally, I am glad they did because it is the Chargers and they are doomed to be the NFL's version of the Cubs! :D



THe Packers wouldn't have drafted Rodgers had they really believed that Favre wasn't going to retire. They believed he had one more year in him, and drafted Rodgers to sit behind one of the greatest to ever play.

They're on record as saying they wanted Rogers all along to sit behind #4 for as long as it took. 1 to 2 years was their estimation. Than Mr. Waffler began the summer time tradition of mind games.



3rd).. Do you KNOW that Rivers and Rodgers gained anything from sitting two years? No.

Do you know they didn't? :confused: It is as much speculation on your part. What I have on my side are guys whose names are: David Carr, Akili Smith, Tim Couch, Jim Drukenmiller, Ryan Leaf, Joey Harrington, Patrick Ramsey.

At the end of the day far more QB's have been drafted in the first round, thrown into the fire, and flamed out than not. Where as when you look at those who have sat, they tend to have a higher success rate as a group.



You speculate simply because they sat. I'm willing to bet that they would have been the same QBs whether they sat or not..

Tough thing is we'll never know.



If you use 4 picks to draft a 1st round QB, then I believe he BETTER be ready to start by the second season.

I agree there. He should be ready to go. However, I am a believer that he has to legitimately win the job not be handed the reigns.

Overtime
08-21-2010, 05:44 PM
cut the guy who has proven to be the clear starter at qb and has the best grasp of the system ?
that makes alot of sense:confused:
maybe we should start quinn after his stellar game the other night:shocked:

i'd rather take my chances with Quinn that orton. Orton went 8-8 last year and he got lucky to start 6-0, but went 2-8 down the final stretch.

so really? Brandstater was much better than Orton last year, but due to McDaniels bias we never got to see him, and now that Tebow was drafted we cut Brandstater.

just my opinion, but I don't think Orton will do anything special this year, and those expecting him to do something special will only be disappointed.

but that's what happens when you let an inexperienced dufus come in as a head coach and run off Pro-Bowl players, only to replace them with Trent Dilferesque caliber players.

:coffee:

NightTrainLayne
08-21-2010, 06:09 PM
i'd rather take my chances with Quinn that orton. Orton went 8-8 last year and he got lucky to start 6-0, but went 2-8 down the final stretch.

so really? Brandstater was much better than Orton last year, but due to McDaniels bias we never got to see him, and now that Tebow was drafted we cut Brandstater.

just my opinion, but I don't think Orton will do anything special this year, and those expecting him to do something special will only be disappointed.

but that's what happens when you let an inexperienced dufus come in as a head coach and run off Pro-Bowl players, only to replace them with Trent Dilferesque caliber players.

:coffee:

Wow. That's some serious hate there. Quinn over Orton? Give me a break