Broncos' receivers add up to more than Marshall

[Lonestar]

Broncos' receivers add up to more than Marshall
By Mike Klis
The Denver Post
POSTED: 08/18/2010 01:00:00 AM MDT


Broncos wide receivers coach Adam Gase plays safety with a hit to Eddie Royal in Tuesday's practice. Royal made his one catch count in limited action in the preseason opener with a TD. (John Leyba, The Denver Post)
Life at Dove Valley has been less annoying without Brandon Marshall.

It also has been less exciting, less fun, less chaotic, less explaining to do.

This was a given. From the moment Marshall, his 100 annual catches and his seemingly biannual controversies were traded to the Miami Dolphins in April, everyone knew the Broncos would never be the same.

The surprise is the Broncos' newly constructed receiver group demonstrated in its first preseason game Sunday at Cincinnati that it just may be better without Marshall.

"You don't see the marquee names, at least from you guys' perspective, but I think we have a more versatile group," Broncos quarterback Kyle Orton said. "I think we have a group that is really comfortable with the offense and is really starting to grasp what they're supposed to do. I'm really excited about our wide receivers."
Let's compare the first preseason week that was. Marshall had two passes thrown to him, and he Charlie Browned them both. When he continued to battle the drops in practice this week, he punted a ball away in frustration. Something about Marshall punting the ball causes eyebrows to rise.

Meanwhile, in this year's first preseason game, Orton threw touchdown passes to Eddie Royal and Brandon Lloyd. Jabar Gaffney set up one score with a 31-yard reception and another by drawing a 40-yard pass interference penalty.

The early advantage: life without Marshall.

"What makes this group unique from others I've played with is there's so many guys who have a specific skill set," said Lloyd, who has also played for San Francisco, Washington and Chicago in his eight-year career. "You have guys who are really good at deep balls, really good at intermediate balls, really good on the inside. We just have a lot of variety of specific things that guys do really well. We complement each other well."

There is also a huge "X" factor. The Broncos have big plans for their two drafted

Post Poll - Top Target

Which wide receiver will lead the Denver Broncos in receptions this season?

Total Votes = 2854
Jabar Gaffney
32.93 %
Eddie Royal
47.79 %
Brandon Lloyd
4.940 %
Demaryius Thomas
7.007 %
Eric Decker
1.962 %
Matthew Willis
0.981 %
Brandon Stokley
3.433 %
Alric Arnett
0.455 %
Other
0.490 %
rookie receivers, Demaryius Thomas, who was selected three spots ahead of quarterback Tim Tebow in the first round, and Eric Decker, who was nabbed in the third round.
They're both large by receiver standards. Thomas is more about speed and athleticism when the ball is the air. Decker is more about precise route-running and good hands.

Neither has proved he can stay healthy. Each had a broken foot on draft day, and they were rehabbing injuries Tuesday by working with conditioning coach Rich Tuten instead of practicing with the team.

If the kids are healthy by the opener Sept. 12 at Jacksonville, the Broncos' receiving corps could wind up with a nice mix of veterans (Lloyd, Gaffney, Brandon Stokley) and youth (Decker, Thomas, Royal, Matt Willis), big (Thomas, Decker) and fast (Lloyd, Willis, Thomas), quick (Stokley, Royal) and steady (Gaffney).

"Everybody that's in the NFL can play," Gaffney said. "If you couldn't, you wouldn't be here. We're a confident group. We know we have a lot of players that can make plays."

Not one of the Broncos' receivers, though, would be defined as a true No. 1 receiver. Thomas and Decker might be someday, but it will be a while.

Do they need a true No. 1? Pass-happy New Orleans didn't have one last year. As the Saints marched toward their first Super Bowl, their top receiver was Marques Colston, who ranked tied for 27th in receptions (70) and 18th in yards (1,074).

To the contrary, while Marshall

set an NFL record with 21 catches last year against the Indianapolis Colts, it was a game the Broncos lost and the rest of the receiver stat line read: three catches for Gaffney; one 3-yard reception for Royal.
Where's the fun in standing around watching one guy get all the catches?

"I know it's fun to watch when you don't really care where the ball goes," Broncos coach Josh McDaniels said. "And you don't know how the defense is going to play you. Because when you have a surefire guy that (causes defense to) say, 'We have to do a lot of things to take this guy away,' usually you know what's going to happen. We think when we snap the ball, there's five guys who are going to have a chance to get it."

Mike Klis: 303-954-1055 or mklis@denverpost.com

nice chart at the bottom I can't move.
http://www.denverpost.com/broncos/ci_15810613?source=rss

[gobroncsnv]

Wonder if it was Willis' mom who voted for him in the poll?

[PAINTERDAVE]

Yeah...
spread it around...
be creative...
don't be predictable...
win, win, win.

I like this concept better than...

"Another pass to Marshall... only 2 TD's down now!"

Wins valued more than stats.
Team first. Camerdareie among equals.

No more primadonnas.

That is what is so cool about Tebow... talented but...
being all centered and humble and focused and spiritual.

I really like the future of this squad.
Maybe this year turns out to be a rebuilding year...
but when you kick the can down the road..
I think it is gonna be a downhill path.

I expect big things for this team in the next few seasons.

This year? I am into acceptance and I'll take whatever we get.

[Ravage!!!]

I get the idea, but I would rather have a TOP dog and other 'un-marque" players around him than trying to deal without top talent.

Comparing the saints SB run and WRs to ours isn't exactly an apple-to-apple comparison when you consider who's throwing the ball.

I guess I'm timid about expecting much...especially with rookie WRs and Gabbar Gaffney. Making the statement that the Broncos look better after a single pre-season game, is really putting on the orange-tinted glasses, imo. Who cares if Marshall drops passes in pre-season games or at practice? Who cares if our guys don't, in pre-season games and in practice? Its an obvious statement, but still.... it only matters in game time.

Defenses won't be the same when the games are real. We all know this. Vanilla defenses never really give us a clue as to how good/bad a team is going to be. How many years have we seen the Raiders go undefeated in pre-season? Every year they proclaim their dominance is "back." :lol: (gotta love Raiderjoe).

I have HIGH hopes for Decker being a top possession receiver and I love Royal.

[Sconnie Bronco]

I like the make up of the WRs, even without Thomas and Decker. Lloyd, Royal, and Gaffney isnt that bad.

[Lonestar]

The rookies will learn the ropes this year and this TEAM will be young and scary the next few years.
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[tomjonesrocks]

I'm not 1/4 as mad that Marshall's not here that I am Cutler's gone--but I am going to have to see this work to be sold on it.

What team recently went deep into the playoffs with a stack of 600-800 yard WR3's and no top 20 wideout on the roster? That's a question--not a statement. Even those early Pats teams had Branch in his prime...

[Ravage!!!]

I like the make up of the WRs, even without Thomas and Decker. Lloyd, Royal, and Gaffney isnt that bad.

There is only ONE name in there that I would want to rely on at ANY moment of any game. Its absolutely scary to me to think that our WR corp has been dropped down to the point that "Gaffney" is one of our top guys.

[claymore]

If Orton isnt the answer then this year is a waste.

[Ravage!!!]

If Orton isnt the answer then this year is a waste.

We already know Orton isn't the answer. They didn't draft a QB in the first round because they felt he was going to be the guy. That question has already been answered.

[claymore]

We already know Orton isn't the answer. They didn't draft a QB in the first round because they felt he was going to be the guy. That question has already been answered.

I agree a 100%.

[Sconnie Bronco]

There is only ONE name in there that I would want to rely on at ANY moment of any game. Its absolutely scary to me to think that our WR corp has been dropped down to the point that "Gaffney" is one of our top guys.

I dont look at it that way. Gaffney could possibly be the 5th best WR. He'll play because he knows the offense but as far as talent goes, he might be the 5th best. If Gaffney is your 5th best WR, then you have a fairly deep group of WRs. And Im not so sure Denver still doesnt have the best WR in the AFC West, since Vincent Jackson is holding out.

[BORDERLINE]

i'm not buying this.Marshall is a beast. and until D.Thomas steps up and takes his spot i don't believe our WR corps is better off. I just hope E.Royal steps it up and becomes a steve smith/desean jackson type of wide-out.

[slim]

If Orton isnt the answer then this year is a waste.

That's the spirit!!

[BigDaddyBronco]

We all know the Bronco WR's will never match Marshall's arrest record.

[LordTrychon]

I think there's probably several teams that would love our revolution that getting rid of their top guys will make all of their lesser talented guys better, and the team better as a result.

Arizona, Houston, New England... man, are they going to be good when they figure this out.

And imagine how good Indy will be when they realize they're better by cutting Manning, and splitting the passes more evenly between Painter and Brandstetter!

[slim]

We all know the Bronco WR's will never match Marshall's arrest record.

That is not a fair comparison. Beast is the GOAT when it comes to brushes with the law.

[Sconnie Bronco]

i'm not buying this.Marshall is a beast. and until D.Thomas steps up and takes his spot i don't believe our WR corps is better off. I just hope E.Royal steps it up and becomes a steve smith/desean jackson type of wide-out.

I actually think Thomas and Tebow compliment each other well. Thomas brings the deep ball with his 4.3 something speed and height. Tebow throws a great deep ball plus can scramble, which creates scenarios where Thomas can release deep.

[BORDERLINE]

I actually think Thomas and Tebow compliment each other well. Thomas brings the deep ball with his 4.3 something speed and height. Tebow throws a great deep ball plus can scramble, which creates scenarios where Thomas can release deep.

i hope your right but I haven't seen it....I saw Brandon carve the cowboys secondary for that go ahead t.d .......making big catches in the Pats game and many more Y.A.C plays...he is proven...but with that said his off-field issues where too much and even tough i din't want him traded i'm not complaining about it neither. D.Thomas needs to get on the field ASAP. Seems like this guy is just injury prone

[gobroncsnv]

I'd love to see Bay step up too... He's got the height and the speed, without the attitude. While I really liked Eddie's first year, and BMarsh made a decent showing, we're OVERDUE for a rook WR to make a BIG splash. Why CAN'T it be us? Colston, Fitz, Moss, etc. I say it's our turn.

[Lonestar]

Knowing that Josh was there for most of this time frame in NE. I think I now see what his major reasoning is for NO #1 WR.




Sure, they were a better offense, at times, with Moss, especially in 2007. The Brady-Moss battery lit up the NFL and the record books in 2007, with a truly spectacular season for the ages. You know the story: Brady set a record with 50 TD passes; Moss set a record with 23 TD receptions; the Patriots set a record with 589 points while becoming the first 16-0 team in history. But the season ended in disaster: a 17-14 loss to the Giants -- the most spectacular statistical upset in NFL history.

The Tom Brady Era Patriots didn't suffer those kinds of playoff implosions in the days before Moss. They were a better and more consistent postseason offense, and a better playoff team, period, in the days before Moss. Not blaming Moss for the downfall. Maybe it's just coincidence. But you can't help but notice the difference.

The Tom Brady Era Patriots

• Went 12-2 in the playoffs before Moss
• Went 2-2 in the playoffs with Moss

• Won three Super Bowls before Moss
• Won zero Super Bowls with Moss

• Averaged 25.3 PPG in the playoffs before Moss
• Averaged 20.8 PPG in the playoffs with Moss

So which was the better playoff team? The club that went 12-2, won three Super Bowls and averaged 25.3 PPG; or the club that went 2-2, won zero Super Bowls and averaged 20.8 PPG? The answer is obvious. The Patriots were a record-setting playoff team in the days before Moss. They were just an ordinary playoff team with Moss.

Brady was certainly a better postseason quarterback in the early days, too. Whether coincidence or not, we don't know. But we do know that one set of playoff data, one set of Cold, Hard Football Facts, is better than the other.
W-L Att.-Comp. Pct. Yards Yards per attempt TD Int. Rating Points per game
Brady pre-Moss 12-2 295-486 60.7 3,217 6.6 20 9 86.2 25.3
Brady with Moss 2-2 100-151 66.2 891 5.9 8 6 82.9 20.8

The numbers are rather shocking: Brady had a reputation as a dink-and-dunk kind of quarterback in his early days. The numbers support the reputation: his 6.6 YPA in the 14 pre-Moss playoff games was just below the leaguewide average of about 6.8 to 6.9 YPA.

But Brady also dink-and-dunked his way to 10 straight playoff wins at one point, three Super Bowl victories, a pair of Super Bowl MVP awards, a pair of last-second, game-winning Super Bowl drives, and a record 32 completions in Super Bowl XXXVIII. Considering the Patriots seemed to play half their postseason games in snow, rain or bone-chilling cold, the numbers are pretty decent. They were certainly good enough to win consistently.

But with Moss, the quarterback's numbers suffered badly: Brady was, at one point, the least-intercepted passer in postseason history. But he suffered not one but two three-pick playoff games with Moss as his battery mate (vs. San Diego in the 2007 AFC title game; vs. Baltimore in the 2009 wild-card round).

More amazingly, Brady and Moss simply could not get the ball down the field in the playoffs. Moss was supposed to be the greatest downfield threat in history. But Brady's 5.9 YPA average with Moss is incredibly poor, well below his very good career regular-season average of 7.3 YPA.

And Moss was a no-show. In four playoff games with the Patriots, he caught 12 passes for 142 yards and 1 TD. That was one day of work for Deion Branch in the playoffs -- back when New England was winning championships. Put another way: the explosive Brady-Moss battery of the regular season was a major-league dud in the postseason.

Two postseasons best illustrate the difference between the pre- and with-Moss Patriots:

Consider the 2004 postseason. The Patriots scored 437 points during the regular season. Then they walked into Pittsburgh for the AFC title game to face a raucous crowd, the bitter cold, the top-ranked scoring defense in football and a great Steelers team that went 15-1 in the regular season.

The Patriots destroyed Pittsburgh that night. They hung 41 points on the mighty Steelers (34 offensive points) in the greatest postseason offensive effort in franchise history. The effort was paced by a career performance from Branch, who torched the league's best defense for four catches, 116 yards, 29.0 YPC and one TD. Branch followed up that effort with 11 catches for 133 yards while earning Super Bowl MVP honors in a victory over a great Eagles team.

Now consider the 2007 Patriots. They went 16-0 and scored more points than any other team in history (589). But they struggled to move the ball in the AFC title game, eking out a 21-12 home victory over San Diego and its injured quarterback, Philip Rivers. Moss was a no-show: one catch for 18 yards, just weeks after finishing the regular-season with a record 23 TD receptions.

The Patriots offense followed that effort with arguably the greatest postseason choke job in history: after scoring 36.8 PPG in the regular season, they scored a meager 14 points against a Giants club that had gone just 10-6 in the regular season.

Moss made an impact, but hardly a big one for a player considered among the greatest receivers ever: he caught five passes for 62 yards and 1 TD (to his credit, a go-ahead TD late in the fourth quarter).

But at the end of the day, the offense failed to show up for the biggest game of the year, and the shiny hood ornament could do little to aid the team in its time of need.

Maybe you remember how the 2009 season ended, too: The Patriots were destroyed by the Ravens, 33-14, the team's first home playoff loss since 1978. The Brady-Moss battery was a dud ... again. Brady had the worst playoff game of his career (23-for-42, 54.8 percent, 154 yards, a dreadful 3.7 YPA, 2 TD, 3 INT, 49.1 passer rating).

Moss? Five catches, 48 yards, zero TD, zero impact on the outcome of a playoff game. Again.

We don't believe trading Moss makes the Patriots a better team. There's no way we can make that judgment at this point. But we do know this: The Patriots ran better and faster, and crossed the finish line first more often, especially in the playoffs, before they put the shiny chrome ornament on the hood of one of the great postseason teams in history.
http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/201...oss/index.html

Maybe I'm wrong but lots of things make more sense in getting rid of Marshall.

[Tempus Fugit]

Teams completely sold out to stop Moss in the 2007 playoffs, until the Super Bowl. In the Super Bowl, Moss was open many times, but Brady didn't have time to get him the ball.

The article is working from a false premise and trying to find points that don't exist.

[Ravage!!!]

Teams completely sold out to stop Moss in the 2007 playoffs, until the Super Bowl. In the Super Bowl, Moss was open many times, but Brady didn't have time to get him the ball.

The article is working from a false premise and trying to find points that don't exist.

Even then, he was the one that got open to make the catch, near the end of the game, to put them in the lead.

[LordTrychon]

I don't blame them for getting rid of Moss... Belichek claims there were no disciplinary issues or anything... but to dump a player like Moss for a 3rd (compensation only slightly better than they'd be likely to get for letting him leave a FA)... in the middle of the week... yeah.

I don't buy that they're a better team right now for it though. Moss *probably* forced it with some underhanded tactics... but that's all guesswork. The Patriots are taking a bit of a loss here, even if they got him for a 4th.

[Lonestar]

I heard that he had pitched a bitch in the locker room one morning this week. That was what expedited his departure.
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[LordTrychon]

I heard that he had pitched a bitch in the locker room one morning this week. That was what expedited his departure.
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Rumor also had it that Belichek tried to talk to him on the plane and he ignored him. That's been denied, and I've heard sources that say it's unusual behavior for him to be wandering around the plane... so that one may indeed be erroneous.

Either way... they get a third probably if they let him walk via FA... so for them to do this... SOMETHING probably happened. No matter what Belichek says.

[gobroncsnv]

We've got a better passing game this year already without really seeing DT's full impact yet. Marshall's gone, and the only 2 words that come to mind are "so what?"

[Ravage!!!]

We've got a better passing game this year already without really seeing DT's full impact yet. Marshall's gone, and the only 2 words that come to mind are "so what?"

YEah.. but we are throwing the ball 50 times a game. Of course we have more passing yards. The perspective I have, is that for the life of me I can't understand how guys like Lloyd, Royal, and gaffney wouldn't do better with a Marshall on the other side of the field taking double teams?

If they are doing well now, wouldn't Marshall provide them with more single coverages? My understanding is tht QBs look to throw the ball to the single coverage. Wouldn't tittake coverage away from them, when its focused on a more talented WR? Sure it would.

We are spreading the ball around great. We are throwing the ball twice as much as the average, but we are throwing the ball twice as much, per game, than the average team. We SHOULD be putting up big passing numbers with that many attempts.

[Lonestar]

We've got a better passing game this year already without really seeing DT's full impact yet. Marshall's gone, and the only 2 words that come to mind are "so what?"

Once him and decker come online, who neither would have been drafted had BM stayed, and the oline gets used to each other, this passing game will really be special and IMO be even more dynamic than last year.
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[Lonestar]

Let me add that Joshes spread offense is designed to get yards thru the air, with lots of crossing patterns to confuse the the Dbs and almost always has someone open.
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[gobroncsnv]

YEah.. but we are throwing the ball 50 times a game. Of course we have more passing yards. The perspective I have, is that for the life of me I can't understand how guys like Lloyd, Royal, and gaffney wouldn't do better with a Marshall on the other side of the field taking double teams?

If they are doing well now, wouldn't Marshall provide them with more single coverages? My understanding is tht QBs look to throw the ball to the single coverage. Wouldn't tittake coverage away from them, when its focused on a more talented WR? Sure it would.

We are spreading the ball around great. We are throwing the ball twice as much as the average, but we are throwing the ball twice as much, per game, than the average team. We SHOULD be putting up big passing numbers with that many attempts.

Don't really think we're at odds here... other than, your premise is, with a true number one, we'd be better able to spread the ball around because the other guys are getting open when more attention goes the the stud. I am seeing the other guys getting open in spite of not having a "superstar".

Now as far as not having a running game (yet, anyway), I am in FULL agreement with you there. We DO need one, because there are going to be some weather games that will impact the air game.

But for now, if we want to win games on Sundays, we are forced to air it out, because we don't have the line nor the backs for it. We absolutely need to fix this, but until we do, throw the ball if we want the wins.

[Tned]

Don't really think we're at odds here... other than, your premise is, with a true number one, we'd be better able to spread the ball around because the other guys are getting open when more attention goes the the stud. I am seeing the other guys getting open in spite of not having a "superstar".

Now as far as not having a running game (yet, anyway), I am in FULL agreement with you there. We DO need one, because there are going to be some weather games that will impact the air game.

But for now, if we want to win games on Sundays, we are forced to air it out, because we don't have the line nor the backs for it. We absolutely need to fix this, but until we do, throw the ball if we want the wins.

Would you agree that if Marshall was on the field and drawing double teams, then the other 2 or 3 receivers on the field would have a better chance of single coverage and getting open?

If you don't agree he would draw double coverage, do you agree that against most CB's in the league, Marshall wins one on one battles?

[WARHORSE]

Im glad Marshall is gone.

REALLY glad.


Once Marshall was gone, our offense spread the ball around alot more.

Most of that is Ortons growth in the system.

Some of that is the receivers growth in the system.

And some of that is Orton didnt have a security blanket to throw to every time he dropped back and got heat.



But the number one reason Im glad, is because we drafted Optimus Prime.

And in the end.........I believe he will be a dominator.


When you see him touch the ball......youre eyes open a little wider cause you know something exciting is getting ready to happen.


Good riddance Brandon. Thanks for your time, but mostly not.


Youre a fish now.:coffee:

[gobroncsnv]

Would you agree that if Marshall was on the field and drawing double teams, then the other 2 or 3 receivers on the field would have a better chance of single coverage and getting open?

If you don't agree he would draw double coverage, do you agree that against most CB's in the league, Marshall wins one on one battles?

Marshall is a great athlete, and I agree that opposing defenses would be just stupid to leave him with single coverage. But here's the question, is our passing attack better this year than last?

[Tned]

Marshall is a great athlete, and I agree that opposing defenses would be just stupid to leave him with single coverage.

Before answering your question, here is the natural followup to your answers to mind.

Ok, so if opposing offenses would double cover Marshall, which then means that the other receivers will be single covered and more likely to be open.

So, does it not follow that if Marshall was still on the team, drawing double coverage that Lloyd, Royal and company would have a better chance to make plays in the passing game?


But here's the question, is our passing attack better this year than last?

Yes, but the only argument I have read to support the "it's better because Marshall is gone" is that since no WR on the team is as dominant as Marshall, Orton has been forced to spread the ball around rather than constantly throw it to Marshall.

[Poet]

It's a mixed bag. Marshall is a great WR and is better than any individual player you guys have at WR.

As Tned alluded to, him being on the field would only make you a better squad. If you have a system that can make pedestrian WR's into productive ones, that same system is going to make a great WR that much better.

You can't really dispute that.

But I think it is important to remember all the "OMG WE CAN'T RECOVER FROM LOSING MARSHALL!" talk.

[gobroncsnv]

Don't know what more can be said here... Our receivers ARE getting open, ARE catching the balls thrown to them... I just don't think you can ask more of a passing attack than that.
Anyway, peace out... have a good one.

[Lonestar]

Im glad Marshall is gone.

REALLY glad.


Once Marshall was gone, our offense spread the ball around alot more.

Most of that is Ortons growth in the system.

Some of that is the receivers growth in the system.

And some of that is Orton didnt have a security blanket to throw to every time he dropped back and got heat.



But the number one reason Im glad, is because we drafted Optimus Prime.

And in the end.........I believe he will be a dominator.


When you see him touch the ball......youre eyes open a little wider cause you know something exciting is getting ready to happen.


Good riddance Brandon. Thanks for your time, but mostly not.


Youre a fish now.:coffee:

Excellent understanding of the issue and Josh knew that the money/attention he required was more than we needed to deal with.

He knew that while moss was a force that marshall would never be the deep threat he was.

Therefore he had to go to fix the locker room.

Glad he was here and gave us some thrills now I'm glad he is gone and any off the field issuses are someone elses problem.
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