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Denver Native (Carol)
07-10-2008, 09:14 AM
http://msn.foxsports.com/nfl/story/8331438/Community:-Toughest-places-to-play-in-NFL?CMP=OTC-K9B1

As the 2008 NFL season approaches, I get giddier and giddier as each day goes by. Training camp is just around the corner, and there is plenty of reading material back on the Internet regarding teams, players, predictions, and rankings.

I stumbled upon the 2007 Sports Illustrated's "Toughest Places to Play" list. In order, from one to 10, they had the following: Chiefs, Pats, Colts, Broncos, Seahawks, Steelers, Bears, Packers, Eagles, and Vikings.

I didn't agree with it, so I came up with my own.

The factors I considered are, in no particular order: how successful the team has been at their home stadium since 2002, the exterior elements that have an effect (weather, dome noise, etc), the knowledge and enthusiasm of the fans, the tradition and history, and what places I wouldn't want to play as an opponent in a must win situation.

1. New England Patriots (39-9) It kills me to put the Patriots atop yet another list, but you can't argue their success at home. Three times in the past six years, they have won all eight home games, and they have not lost more than three in any season dating back to 2002. The cold weather in November and December, paired with very knowledgeable New England fanbase, makes it extremely difficult to win a game up there.

2. Seattle Seahawks (37-11) Qwest Field has to be one of the greatest designs when it comes to making a venue intimidating. It has gotten so loud at Qwest, teams have often accused Seattle of using false means of generating noise. The fans are made part of the team by the infamous 12th-man flag that is waved before each game. In short, it's not a fun place for an opponent to play.

3. Indianapolis Colts (39-9) Why are they ranked third despite having an identical record to the Patriots? Is this another way for a writer to spurn the Colts? No. While the Colts' dome environment makes it very hard to hear and communicate, they can't be No 1 on this list considering their last home game was a playoff loss. Great environment nonetheless.

4. Pittsburgh Steelers (34-13-1) First thought that comes to mind when you think Pittsburgh? Black-and-gold-donning fans pressed together, cold breaths coming out of each, a sea of terrible towels waving vehemently. That's Pittsburgh. Oh, and it's also pretty loud there.

5. Philadelphia Eagles (31-17) They pelted Santa Claus with snowballs, jailed some of their excessively rowdy fans, and are not hospitable (threaten, harass, assault to name a few) to opponents' fans. Would Philly have it any other way? I think not.

6. Denver Broncos (34-14) The high altitude isn't the only thing that makes it hard for opponents to win in Denver. The teams have been successful and their rivalries are very intense. Nothing like hard-hitting football on a cold December night, a mile high on a mountain with 76,100 on hand.

7. Kansas City Chiefs (33-15) Yes, I know they only won two games last year at home and lost six. That is why they are not higher up. Why are they as high as seven you ask?

Because when you try to play a game in front of 79,400 people in red shirts that make it look like you're in a bowl of blood, it's hard to focus. As lousy as the Chiefs' teams have been of late, they have still won more than twice as many games at home than lost.

8. Jacksonville Jaguars (30-18) This may come as a surprise to many, but the Jaguars are a very good team at home. They have won six out of eight games in each of their last three seasons. Though they are still a relatively new team that lacks the tradition and history of many of the aforementioned clubs, they don't let you beat them in their own backyard; plain and simple.

9. Green Bay Packers (30-18) People will be angry that I have the Packers so low on a list, given the rich history of Lambeu Field. There is no doubt that Lambeu is a place you don't want to play late in the season or in the playoffs. However, their solid armor was dented first when Michael Vick (remember him?) beat them in Green Bay, and then last year when the New York Giants defeated the Pack in the NFC Championship game.

I've got to dock them points for that. They've also lost four or more games three of the past six seasons at home.

10. Minnesota Vikings (29-19) What? The Vikings? Yes, and as lousy as they have been over the last six years, they still have won more games at home than the former NFC Champion Chicago Bears have won at Soldier Field.

The Vikings have had a losing record at the Metrodome only once since 2002, and with a season full of high aspirations in 2008, I wouldn't be surprised if the Vikings win seven out of eight at home.

I know there will be many fans furious as to why I left their teams off the list, starting with Chicago. Quite frankly, they haven't been as good at home as the others on this list have. When you think Chicago, you think of cold weather and hard-hitting football.

You also think of low-scoring wins. Still, the Bears have lost 20 at home, something no one else on this list has done.

As far as the Dallas fans go, you have a legitimate gripe because the Cowboys have an identical home record since 2002 as the Vikings. However, the Dallas teams have been better than the Vikings' teams.

It's a lot easier to show up and cheer for your squad when they are competitive. If both teams were of equal caliber, and if I was an opponent, the place I would rather play is Dallas. Minnesota gets too loud and intimidating when the Vikings have a good squad. Texas Stadium just isn't up to par.

Let the bashing of this list begin.

Kapaibro
07-10-2008, 09:19 AM
I think judging a place by how teams have performed in the last cuple of years is a bit off.

The Pats of the last few years have had a good (urk I hate to say it) team, and cushy schedule.

The real indication would be to speak to the players who are on the field rather than a journalist.

Kaylore
07-10-2008, 09:20 AM
You have us too high. If you're basing teams like the Patriots on their recent history, then you have to lower us on ours. We haven't been a good home team for a few years - the crowd and altitude notwithstanding.

Kapaibro
07-10-2008, 09:24 AM
You have us too high. If you're basing teams like the Patriots on their recent history, then you have to lower us on ours. We haven't been a good home team for a few years - the crowd and altitude notwithstanding.

Try and remember that DNC didn't write this. some journo did, ergo, the link at the top.

scott.475
07-10-2008, 09:31 AM
I would add the Ravens. Seriously, if the thought of being stabbed by the home team is not intimidating, I don't know what is.

I LOVE that the Coliseum is no where!

Jwalk - JayCutty6Goes - CasinoRoyal
07-10-2008, 09:54 AM
Havent had much mile high magic over the last couple years though. Mainly because of the fairweather fans in Colorado who sells there tickets during an AFC championship game. But we havent had dominant teams either. We should get the magic back this year.

lex
07-10-2008, 10:17 AM
I have no idea where Denver should be. The altitude is still in play but I dont think the new stadium is as much of an advantage as the old one.

I also think its flawed to base it on how good the team is. I look at this as it being more about the venue than the team itself. But maybe when you look at the level of success Denver has had over the years and the fact that we only have one HOFer to show for it, there's something else in play. Maybe historically, we should get credit in spades for being a tough road venue, since our level of success has to be attributable to something, if not the players.

Kaylore
07-10-2008, 10:26 AM
The fans at Invesco have been good. People have regularly been very loud. Billick mentioned he thought it was louder there during MNF a couple years ago then in Arrowhead, and that was the year we were 9-7. Having a good defense is key to taking advantage of the home field because they can't hear the snap count and make adjustments.

Lonestar
07-10-2008, 12:12 PM
You have us too high. If you're basing teams like the Patriots on their recent history, then you have to lower us on ours. We haven't been a good home team for a few years - the crowd and altitude notwithstanding.

since moving to invest co and leaving MILE HIGH the design as well as the whine and cheese crowd and couple it with a lack of talent this team has had a real difficult time in winning at home..

Once the whine and cheese group gets tried of coming to games and as the Broncos get their rookie talent up and running we might be higher in the top ten..

turftoad
07-10-2008, 12:26 PM
since moving to invest co and leaving MILE HIGH the design as well as the whine and cheese crowd and couple it with a lack of talent this team has had a real difficult time in winning at home..

Once the whine and cheese group gets tried of coming to games and as the Broncos get their rookie talent up and running we might be higher in the top ten..

Agreed. I think if we still played in the old Mile High, we'd be right up there in the top 3.

turftoad
07-10-2008, 12:27 PM
Havent had much mile high magic over the last couple years though. Mainly because of the fairweather fans in Colorado who sells there tickets during an AFC championship game. But we havent had dominant teams either. We should get the magic back this year.

Fairweather fans?? :confused:

How many years in a row has Mile High been sold out??

Jwalk - JayCutty6Goes - CasinoRoyal
07-10-2008, 01:06 PM
Fairweather fans?? :confused:

How many years in a row has Mile High been sold out??

How many thousands of Pitt fans were at the AFC championship game??? Looked like atleast 15 thousand.

Lonestar
07-10-2008, 01:15 PM
Fairweather fans?? :confused:

How many years in a row has Mile High been sold out??

since 1977 or so. when I gave up my priority when I moved out of state there were 17000+ people on a Wait list for season tickets..

One of the reason I did so, but I kick myself in the ass every morning when I get up..

Yes I'm told there are fair weather fans that leave early if the game is not competitive either way..

Or if the weather is harsh..

not to mention many are aghast if you get up and cheer for a good play many are to genteel to do so..

lex
07-10-2008, 05:40 PM
Fairweather fans?? :confused:

How many years in a row has Mile High been sold out??


since 1977 or so. when I gave up my priority when I moved out of state there were 17000+ people on a Wait list for season tickets..

One of the reason I did so, but I kick myself in the ass every morning when I get up..

Yes I'm told there are fair weather fans that leave early if the game is not competitive either way..

Or if the weather is harsh..

not to mention many are aghast if you get up and cheer for a good play many are to genteel to do so..

Actually, I believe the last non-sellout was the last game of the 1969 season (I think was against the Bengals), which amazingly easily preceded our first winning season.

Lonestar
07-10-2008, 05:46 PM
Actually, I believe the last non-sellout was the last game of the 1969 season (I think was against the Bengals), which amazingly easily preceded our first winning season.


could have been before that But I was referring to season tickets sell out..

lex
07-10-2008, 05:52 PM
could have been before that But I was referring to season tickets sell out..

Ahh fair enough.

http://www.orangeforceone.com/DenverBook/broncos.htm

BTW, Im actually on that list.

Broncos Mtnman
07-10-2008, 07:37 PM
I don't think win/lose record is necessarily an indicator as to how tough a stadium is.

I go to KC for our game every year and I can tell you that Arrowhead is one tough place to play.

Ask Rod Smith. He'll agree that Arrowhead is probably the toughest place to play in the NFL.

Invesco is getting better. The first few seasons we were in the new stadium, there was alot of adjusting going on. I know that there is more of a "corporate" feeling at Invesco as compared to Mile High, but even the rich and famous are starting to get the hang of it.

Winning of course would help alot.

Watchthemiddle
07-10-2008, 07:41 PM
I don't think win/lose record is necessarily an indicator as to how tough a stadium is.

I go to KC for our game every year and I can tell you that Arrowhead is one tough place to play.

Ask Rod Smith. He'll agree that Arrowhead is probably the toughest place to play in the NFL.

Invesco is getting better. The first few seasons we were in the new stadium, there was alot of adjusting going on. I know that there is more of a "corporate" feeling at Invesco as compared to Mile High, but even the rich and famous are starting to get the hang of it.

Winning of course would help alot.

KC is really tough in December...:tsk:..it seems like no matter what the record is, they are tough that time of year.

broncosfanscott
07-10-2008, 09:22 PM
KC is really tough in December...:tsk:..it seems like no matter what the record is, they are tough that time of year.

I hear ya. I would have placed them higher than 7th despite how they did in '07.

The fact that the Pats have been successful over the past years helps them be #1 according to the guy doing this. However they did lose to us. :laugh:

Nature Boy
07-11-2008, 02:36 AM
Toughest place to play in the NFL? The old mile high stadium for opposing teams and for the Broncos? It's gotta be Kansas City. Them tomatoes are always tough to beat in their house.

The Broncos fair very well against the Patriots and Seahawks in their homes, which is ranked #1 and #2 on this list but we can never beat Indianapolis no matter where we play. Peyton Manning just has Mike Shanahan's numbers.

jrelway
07-11-2008, 07:13 PM
Havent had much mile high magic over the last couple years though. Mainly because of the fairweather fans in Colorado who sells there tickets during an AFC championship game. But we havent had dominant teams either. We should get the magic back this year.

fairweather fans only exist in san diego.

lex
07-12-2008, 07:31 AM
fairweather fans only exist in san diego.

I dont know man. There has been a lot of migration of Californians moving to Denver. Its nice and the property in Cal. was so high that Denver offered a bang for the buck that was appealing. And unfortunately, among other things, like clogging the freeways and driving up prices in Denver, its been observed that theyve diluted the connection between Denver and the Broncos. The old-timers are tried and true Broncos fans but walking among them you have all these transplants. Im kind of glad Ive lived away for a lot of this transition. It kind of makes me sad.

And dont get me wrong, Im not so much cutting down Californians as much as Im expressing my appreciation for the way it was which was more distinctly Denver. California has its own things to be proud of but supporting sports teams is not one of them unfortunately. Theyre laid back way makes them easy to get along with in many cases but it also may not go hand in hand with being a passionate fan. Again, its just an observation and its not unique to me.

broncosfanscott
07-12-2008, 08:12 PM
San Diego is just a fairweather city and I think there are more transplants from other cities and countries here than most cities in this country. A lot of the people here are laid back and SD has never really been a diehard sports city. I mean two NBA teams did leave to go elsewhere.