PDA

View Full Version : Broncos' track record bodes well for rookie Torain



SR
07-08-2008, 01:44 PM
Since I'm on the Torain bandwagon, I figured I'd post this. It's a good article by a total Denver homer.

http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/columns/story?columnist=williamson_bill&id=3472063


ENGLEWOOD, Colo. -- Ryan Torain's eyes were caught by the television. It was the fourth pick of the fifth round in April's NFL draft. He noticed that Denver, the team of choice for every college running back, was on the clock.

Torain's mind predictably started to envision 1,000-yard rushing seasons with the Broncos. Suddenly, he was brought back to the draft board by the sound of his ringing cell phone. He looked at the incoming call. There it was.

"It was a 303 [area code] number," Torain said. "I knew the call was coming from Colorado. I have a couple of friends from Colorado and I know the 303 is in Colorado. I was hoping it was the Broncos and not my friends calling."

Indeed, running back heaven was calling.

"I picked up the phone real quick and the voice on the other end said, 'Are you ready to be the next star running back for the Denver Broncos?'" Torain recalled of his brief conversation with a Broncos personnel official. "I said, 'Yes' and I've been smiling ever since."

With the 139th pick of the 2008 draft, the Broncos took Torain, a rugged running back from Arizona State. Even though he was drafted in the fifth round, Torain has a legitimate chance to make an impact this season. He is a prototypical Broncos running back. He hits the hole quickly and he's a downhill runner. He fits in Denver's zone-blocking scheme.

The Broncos using a fifth-round pick on a running back is the equivalent of any other NFL team selecting a tailback in the second round. After all, the Broncos have made a living out of scoring with late-round running backs. Terrell Davis was a sixth-round pick, as was Mike Anderson. Olandis Gary, a fourth-round selection in 1999, rushed for 1,159 yards as a rookie. Mike Bell and Selvin Young became contributors in the past two years after both were picked up as undrafted free agents.

Torain, whom Denver took with the draft choice acquired from AFC West-rival Oakland for defensive tackle Gerard Warren last August, is now part of Denver's running back consortium. And that means he has a chance to be the team's leading rusher this year. Yes, even as a fifth-round pick. Torain will be in the Broncos' camp, so he has a chance to be the top running back. That's how it works in Denver.

n Mike Shanahan's running system, easily the best in the NFL since 1995, five different players have led the team in rushing since 2003: Clinton Portis, Reuben Droughns, Anderson, Tatum Bell, and Young. Only Portis started his respective season as the sure No. 1 runner in training camp. Portis, Droughns, Anderson and Bell each left the team the season after leading the Broncos in rushing.

Shanahan thought he found his long-term answer at running back last year when Denver signed tested veteran Travis Henry to a five-year, $22 million deal. After four games in 2007, the plan was unfolding beautifully as Henry was leading the NFL in rushing. However, injuries and off-field issues ruined Henry's season. After he stopped showing up to work this spring, Henry was cut. His departure once again opened Denver's revolving door at running back.

When training camp opens July 25, Young will go in as the No. 1 back. He is followed by veteran Michael Pittman, recently signed from Tampa Bay, small playmaker Andre Hall and Torain.

Even though he is fourth on the depth chart, Torain shouldn't enter training camp feeling buried. No running back in Denver should ever feel that way. Both Mike Bell and Young came out of nowhere in the past two training camps and became big parts of the offense. The word inside the Denver organization is that Torain has performed well in minicamps and has picked up the running scheme quickly.

"This is a great place for any running back to be," Torain said. "This is the place you want to be. I know I have a long way to go. But running backs can and have done well here. I couldn't think of a better place to be. I'm ready to go for it."

Still, Shanahan maintained during minicamps that his running back crew may be a committee. In the past, Shanahan has been open to the idea, and he likes what he has in this group.

"We have good young players at running back," Shanahan said. "It is going to be interesting in training camp with a lot of good, hard competition. I like what I have in all my guys."

Young has a chance to be the top back, but because of his slight frame, there is concern. He has worn down at Denver and in college at Texas. Young led the Broncos with 729 yards rushing last year, but he spent a lot time on the sideline dealing with nagging injuries. With his game-breaking speed, there will be a place for Young in Denver's offense, but it remains to be seen if he can carry the load on a consistent basis. Shanahan himself has questioned Young's durability multiple times. Young has impressed the Broncos this offseason with his worth ethic and is out to prove he can handle as many carries as the team gives him.

"It's my job to show the coaches I can be productive in that sense, and it's up to me to stay healthy and do the things off the field and in the weight room to combat his ideas," Young said.

Pittman was brought in to be a short-yardage back and to provide toughness with his blocking and receiving in key situations. He'll be a role player. Hall made some big plays last year and will have a chance to get some carries, but like Young, he is small and injury prone.

Then there's Torain, the wild card of the bunch. Many in the Denver organization hope and believe Torain will emerge as the top running back this year. Because he's big and strong, Torain has the ability to carry the ball 20-25 times a game if needed. If he can meet those expectations, Denver will be in great shape and will be able to utilize all four of its tailbacks. But somebody has to be the lead runner and Torain is going to camp ready to stake his claim. And in Denver, even a fifth-round pick can feel this way in July.

"It's all in front of me," Torain said. "I just have to do the right things and hard work and great things can happen for me in Denver."

BroncoNut
07-08-2008, 01:55 PM
Interesting read , thanks.

NameUsedBefore
07-08-2008, 02:05 PM
Broncos' track record bodes well for [insert any running back here].


IMO.

SR
07-08-2008, 02:10 PM
Touche. And Williamson mentions that in his article. But to the contrary, I believe Torain will emerge as our full time #1. I hate the RBBC.

lex
07-08-2008, 03:02 PM
The Broncos using a fifth-round pick on a running back is the equivalent of any other NFL team selecting a tailback in the second round. After all, the Broncos have made a living out of scoring with late-round running backs. Terrell Davis was a sixth-round pick, as was Mike Anderson. Olandis Gary, a fourth-round selection in 1999, rushed for 1,159 yards as a rookie. Mike Bell and Selvin Young became contributors in the past two years after both were picked up as undrafted free agents.

Torain, whom Denver took with the draft choice acquired from AFC West-rival Oakland for defensive tackle Gerard Warren last August, is now part of Denver's running back consortium. And that means he has a chance to be the team's leading rusher this year. Yes, even as a fifth-round pick. Torain will be in the Broncos' camp, so he has a chance to be the top running back. That's how it works in Denver.

n Mike Shanahan's running system, easily the best in the NFL since 1995, five different players have led the team in rushing since 2003: Clinton Portis, Reuben Droughns, Anderson, Tatum Bell, and Young. Only Portis started his respective season as the sure No. 1 runner in training camp. Portis, Droughns, Anderson and Bell each left the team the season after leading the Broncos in rushing.

Like I said at the time. Shanahan wants people to talk about how smart he is. Thats why he settles for bargain basement running backs.

SR
07-08-2008, 03:04 PM
Like I said at the time. Shanahan wants people to talk about how smart he is. Thats why he settles for bargain basement running backs.

I think that's pretty ludicrous.

NameUsedBefore
07-08-2008, 03:05 PM
Like I said at the time. Shanahan wants people to talk about how smart he is. Thats why he settles for bargain basement running backs.

Is that why he spent $22m/5 years on Travis Henry?

SR
07-08-2008, 03:08 PM
Is that why he spent $22m/5 years on Travis Henry?

Dale Carter, Maurice Clarrett (sp?), to name a couple more.

lex
07-08-2008, 03:08 PM
Is that why he spent $22m/5 years on Travis Henry?

Its different when youre coming off a 7-9 season and your best RB was an UFA. Doing this makes people talk about how smart you are. It takes some of the focus off of the crappy season and creates news about how his running game.

lex
07-08-2008, 03:09 PM
I think that's pretty ludicrous.

So?

NameUsedBefore
07-08-2008, 03:09 PM
Its different when youre coming off a 7-9 season and your best RB was an UFA. Doing this makes people talk about how smart you are. It takes some of the focus off of the crappy season and creates news about how his running game.

Since facts didn't do it, I'll just go with Red and say this notion is ludicrous.

SR
07-08-2008, 03:10 PM
Its different when youre coming off a 7-9 season and your best RB was an UFA. Doing this makes people talk about how smart you are. It takes some of the focus off of the crappy season and creates news about how his running game.

I'm sure Shanny is way more concerned with winning over what the retards in the media think. The fact that you would even point this out as his motivation to draft another RB in the second day is ridiculous.

lex
07-08-2008, 03:11 PM
Since facts didn't do it, I'll just go with Red and say this notion is ludicrous.

A lot of good facts do when theyre not even relevant. But you go hide behind SeeingRed though.

SR
07-08-2008, 03:12 PM
A lot of good facts do when theyre not even relevant. But you go hide behind SeeingRed though.

He's backing me because you're wrong. Pretty simple. Don't need to get sad. We're all wrong from time to time.

lex
07-08-2008, 03:13 PM
I'm sure Shanny is way more concerned with winning over what the retards in the media think. The fact that you would even point this out as his motivation to draft another RB in the second day is ridiculous.

First of all, its Shanahan. Its two more letters. Not that hard. Secondly, Im glad you think Shanahan is just serendipitously walking through the meadow and is in no way calculated at all.

tubby
07-08-2008, 03:13 PM
Lex, all I think about when you post regarding Torain is the royal bitch fit you threw when the chiefs took Jamaal Charles. :lol:

NameUsedBefore
07-08-2008, 03:13 PM
A lot of good facts do when theyre not even relevant. But you go hide behind SeeingRed though.

Okay, fine, it isn't ludicrous, it's ridiculous.

Do I stand on my own platform now?

The idea that Shanahan cares what the media thinks is absurd. Mike gets who he wants, period, and he cuts who he wants, period.

lex
07-08-2008, 03:14 PM
He's backing me because you're wrong. Pretty simple. Don't need to get sad. We're all wrong from time to time.

No, he's backing you A) because his "fact" post blew up in his face because of a lack of relevance and B) you are disagreeing with me...its a case of "the enemy of my enemy is my friend."

SR
07-08-2008, 03:15 PM
NUB, I think I have officially given you more High 5's in this thread than all of the others you've posted in combined. Are we becoming friends or something? I don't know. It's kind of a good feeling...down in mah pantalones.

lex
07-08-2008, 03:16 PM
Okay, fine, it isn't ludicrous, it's ridiculous.

Do I stand on my own platform now?

The idea that Shanahan cares what the media thinks is absurd. Mike gets who he wants, period, and he cuts who he wants, period.

No, again, your "fact" post blew up in your face because someone called you out on your red herring and so now your glomming on to someone else.

NameUsedBefore
07-08-2008, 03:19 PM
No, again, your "fact" post blew up in your face because someone called you out on your red herring and so now your glomming on to someone else.

Excuse me, you just said Shanahan goes for bargain bin running-backs to look smart. Not only is the former portion wrong in that he just spent $22/5-years on Travis Henry, but the latter is wrong because he now looks stupid for doing it.

Don't tell me about my statements blowing up in my face when your initial one has no merit by the example of just one player. Just one. I could also go with Maurice Clarrett where Shanahan obviously didn't give a flying **** what the media thought about him and didn't have problems with swallowing his pride and cutting him (an action that also made him look bad).

SR
07-08-2008, 03:20 PM
No, he's backing you A) because his "fact" post blew up in his face because of a lack of relevance and B) you are disagreeing with me...its a case of "the enemy of my enemy is my friend."

Or because your point ran out of credibility as soon as you posted it.

lex
07-08-2008, 03:22 PM
Excuse me, you just said Shanahan goes for bargain bin running-backs to look smart. Not only is the former portion wrong in that he just spent $22/5-years on Travis Henry, but the latter is wrong because he now looks stupid for doing it.

No. Youre missing a big part of it which is that he is going this route after a 7-9 season.


Don't tell me about my statements blowing up in my face when your initial one has no merit by the example of just one player. Just one. I could also go with Maurice Clarrett where Shanahan obviously didn't give a flying **** what the media thought about him and didn't have problems with swallowing his pride and cutting him (an action that also made him look bad).

You must like your red herring well done because it just exploded in your lap.

SR
07-08-2008, 03:23 PM
I wonder what a red herring explosion in my lap would feel like? I'm only used to one kind of explosion in my lap, and it doesn't involve fish...

lex
07-08-2008, 03:24 PM
Or because your point ran out of credibility as soon as you posted it.\

Or maybe the fact that you have to resort to ad hominem attacks this early, establishes that you have nothing of substance to say other than to jump up and down and calling it ridiculous. I think your ridiculous but Im not building my response on that.

SR
07-08-2008, 03:25 PM
It has nothing to do with attacks, it has to do with your point being completely invalid and my refusal to continue to try and debate you on it. You're the only one who can't see the forest from the trees, so to speak.

tubby
07-08-2008, 03:26 PM
Shanahan drafted Ryan Torain b/c he thinks Torain will help the Broncos win games. Period.

lex
07-08-2008, 03:26 PM
It has nothing to do with attacks, it has to do with your point being completely invalid and my refusal to continue to try and debate you on it. You're the only one who can't see the forest from the trees, so to speak.

Translation: "I didnt like what you said, therefore its invalid."

Thats ok dude, Im not for everyone. If I play to rough and get under your skin maybe you should run along.

NameUsedBefore
07-08-2008, 03:27 PM
No. Youre missing a big part of it which is that he is going this route after a 7-9 season.

So why did he grab Jay Cutler after going to the AFC Championship?



You must like your red herring well done because it just exploded in your lap.

Do you even know what the hell a red-herring is? A red-herring is where I mislead you with other intentions in mind. How in the hell I (with no affiliation to the organization) could be doing that while talking about football is beyond me.

SR
07-08-2008, 03:28 PM
Translation: "I didnt like what you said, therefore its invalid."

Thats ok dude, Im not for everyone. If I play to rough and get under your skin maybe you should run along.

No, it has nothing to do with that. A lot of times I don't have any bad thoughts about what you say in the football forums, but on this one you just missed.

SR
07-08-2008, 03:29 PM
Do you even know what the hell a red-herring is?

Apparently it's a fish that can explode in someone's lap.

lex
07-08-2008, 03:40 PM
So why did he grab Jay Cutler after going to the AFC Championship?

Once again, you seem to have a problem with relevance. Now youre talking about drafting a QB.




Do you even know what the hell a red-herring is? A red-herring is where I mislead you with other intentions in mind. How in the hell I (with no affiliation to the organization) could be doing that while talking about football is beyond me.

LOL

lex
07-08-2008, 03:41 PM
No, it has nothing to do with that. A lot of times I don't have any bad thoughts about what you say in the football forums, but on this one you just missed.

It has everything to do with that. In fact, all youve really done is bluster that you dont like that.

turftoad
07-08-2008, 03:42 PM
:focus:

Why is it that anything Torain gets off topic..................... er um, forget it.

Just stay on topic.

underrated29
07-08-2008, 04:20 PM
OMG.

Lex is Ludicrous.

SR and Nub are Ridiculous.


Therefore I must go Plad.

slim
07-08-2008, 04:23 PM
Its different when youre coming off a 7-9 season and your best RB was an UFA. Doing this makes people talk about how smart you are. It takes some of the focus off of the crappy season and creates news about how his running game.

Yeah, either that or Shanny feels that Torain has a chance to be a good pro RB :rolleyes:

underrated29
07-08-2008, 04:26 PM
I agree with SR- Torain will be our starting RB by the bye week.


Back to plad.

SR
07-08-2008, 04:50 PM
Quit agreeing with me people! I don't know shit! Lex is the football God 'round here in these parts. For the love of God!!!!! <---Chris Farley-esque.

NameUsedBefore
07-08-2008, 04:53 PM
If I made a fish-stick out of a red herring would it blow up in my mouth?

'Cause that would be awesome.

turftoad
07-08-2008, 04:53 PM
:focus:

Why is it that anything Torain gets off topic..................... er um, forget it.

Just stay on topic.

Bump

SR
07-08-2008, 04:54 PM
If I made a fish-stick out of a red herring would it blow up in my mouth?

'Cause that would be awesome.

It would be like Pop Rocks, but flavored like Red Herring instead of like strawberries. I think the intense oral explosion would more than make up for the terrible taste.

SR
07-08-2008, 04:55 PM
NUB, I think I have officially given you more High 5's in this thread than all of the others you've posted in combined. Are we becoming friends or something? I don't know. It's kind of a good feeling...down in mah pantalones.

Don't avoid me NUB. I keep checking this thread to see if you've answered me and I've got nothing so far. :mad:

SR
07-08-2008, 04:55 PM
Bump

Sir,

Please forgive me for wandering off track. It's an easy way to distract the people who consistently try to derail this thread with egoism and "never say die" attitudes. It won't happen again, sir.

Respectfully,
SR

NameUsedBefore
07-08-2008, 04:58 PM
Don't avoid me NUB. I keep checking this thread to see if you've answered me and I've got nothing so far. :mad:

I never saw that :lol:

It's just a sign the football season is finally getting some play.


And don't feel bad if I don't hand out my own high-fives; I'm pretty stingy about 'em.

SR
07-08-2008, 05:07 PM
I never saw that :lol:

It's just a sign the football season is finally getting some play.


And don't feel bad if I don't hand out my own high-fives; I'm pretty stingy about 'em.

Are we friends then?


Sorry toad. Last time.

OMorange&blue
07-08-2008, 05:11 PM
Like I said at the time. Shanahan wants people to talk about how smart he is. Thats why he settles for bargain basement running backs.

Yes. Thats why Mike put together a system that churns out 1000 yd RB's. So people will talk about him. :rolleyes:

NameUsedBefore
07-08-2008, 05:12 PM
Are we friends then?


Sorry toad. Last time.

I might fish with you. Although I hate fishing so I probably wouldn't. But the sentiment is there.

SR
07-08-2008, 05:25 PM
I might fish with you. Although I hate fishing so I probably wouldn't. But the sentiment is there.

I promise not to insult you ever again in P&R.

WARHORSE
07-08-2008, 09:16 PM
Like I said at the time. Shanahan wants people to talk about how smart he is. Thats why he settles for bargain basement running backs.


Your insight is amazing Lex. I wish we all could see these things like you can. Then we wouldnt be hanging on your every word, waiting for some more football wisdom to spew forth.

Youre amazing.

Really, really amazing.:salute:



:beer:

Someone should hire you, Im not kidding. You could be like, a GM or sumthin. Run a team.

Hey!!! Even the Broncos!! Why dont you go put in an application or sumthin?

Reach for the stars my man..................thats what BEEF always says.

(or was that reach for the ketchup?)

lex
07-08-2008, 09:31 PM
Your insight is amazing Lex. I wish we all could see these things like you can. Then we wouldnt be hanging on your every word, waiting for some more football wisdom to spew forth.

Youre amazing.

Really, really amazing.:salute:



:beer:

Someone should hire you, Im not kidding. You could be like, a GM or sumthin. Run a team.

Hey!!! Even the Broncos!! Why dont you go put in an application or sumthin?

Reach for the stars my man..................thats what BEEF always says.

(or was that reach for the ketchup?)


It is decidedly so.

Oh, look its sarcasm. Yawn.

threefolddead
07-08-2008, 09:36 PM
Wow... Shanny an attention whore? I just had to laugh. The man has little emotion and rarely ever shows it unless he does that thing where he grits his teeth and show them. Media is always all over that. He is ridiculous when he is off field, can barely keep the man under control. And just LOOK at the running backs he drafted. I mean honestly, 1000 yard seasons. It's just embarrassing.

SR
07-08-2008, 10:05 PM
Wow... Shanny an attention whore? I just had to laugh. The man has little emotion and rarely ever shows it unless he does that thing where he grits his teeth and show them. Media is always all over that. He is ridiculous when he is off field, can barely keep the man under control. And just LOOK at the running backs he drafted. I mean honestly, 1000 yard seasons. It's just embarrassing.

And he did it all so that the media would talk about it.

lex
07-08-2008, 11:27 PM
And he did it all so that the media would talk about it.

Theyre doing it now! I hate to point that out to you but its true.

slim
07-08-2008, 11:33 PM
Theyre doing it now! I hate to point that out to you but its true.

Good Lord....you should drink a beer and relax a bit. Maybe even ask a female if they would be willing to go out with you. If they say "no", well, what did you expect?

WARHORSE
07-08-2008, 11:40 PM
It is decidedly so.

Oh, look its sarcasm. Yawn.


Decidedly.

lex
07-08-2008, 11:42 PM
Good Lord....you should drink a beer and relax a bit. Maybe even ask a female if they would be willing to go out with you. If they say "no", well, what did you expect?


Do you own shoes? Do you have chickens in your front yard?

slim
07-08-2008, 11:47 PM
Do you own shoes? Do you have chickens in your front yard?

Yes and no.

LoyalSoldier
07-09-2008, 12:07 AM
\

Or maybe the fact that you have to resort to ad hominem attacks this early, establishes that you have nothing of substance to say other than to jump up and down and calling it ridiculous. I think your ridiculous but Im not building my response on that.

Or maybe the fact your post wasn't any good to start with and now you are resorting to mudding the water instead of actually posting something worth while.

lex
07-09-2008, 11:24 AM
Or maybe the fact your post wasn't any good to start with and now you are resorting to mudding the water instead of actually posting something worth while.


Yeah, or its more like I said something that a lot of people dont like. Its like that "Should We Trade Brandon Marshall" thread. The very thought made a lot of people upset. Its amazing how much people have softened. The problem is that the reason people have softened is also the reason his trade value has diminished. The thread hinged on a premise though that if you look into the future and being realistic. Those who saw value in trading him, could see more of the same with him. Now, some people had solid reasons for not wanting to trade him but then you also had a lot of emotional knee jerk opposition. Saying, Torain isnt THAT impressive really rubs people the wrong way when they want to blindly believe in him out of pure homerism.


But its amusing how when people agree with me, my posts are awesome but when they dont, they suck. Its really more about the internal turmoil my posts cause some people and not as much about my posts.

Ziggy
07-09-2008, 11:45 AM
Yeah, or its more like I said something that a lot of people dont like. Its like that "Should We Trade Brandon Marshall" thread. The very thought made a lot of people upset. Its amazing how much people have softened. The problem is that the reason people have softened is also the reason his trade value has diminished. The thread hinged on a premise though that if you look into the future and being realistic. Those who saw value in trading him, could see more of the same with him. Now, some people had solid reasons for not wanting to trade him but then you also had a lot of emotional knee jerk opposition. Saying, Torain isnt THAT impressive really rubs people the wrong way when they want to blindly believe in him out of pure homerism.


But its amusing how when people agree with me, my posts are awesome but when they dont, they suck. Its really more about the internal turmoil my posts cause some people and not as much about my posts.


I think it's really more about how you turn every RB thread (and most others), into a pissing match. I can only speak for myself, so I will. You lost your credibility on this board the minute you posted a thread to disown a current Bronco before he even took the field in the NFL. It wouldn't be so bad if you would just suck it up and admit that you're really a Raiders fan. Then your senseless posts would have some reasoning.

Jwalk - JayCutty6Goes - CasinoRoyal
07-09-2008, 11:49 AM
This is true.

Kaylore
07-09-2008, 11:55 AM
Lex you need to just get over that we didn't draft your guy at running back. That's what this is all about. Shanahan hurt your feelings when he didn't use his first round pick on a back. He used it on the best player available and one that will help the run and the pass game. Anyway, you need to build a bridge and get over it. There aren't really any premiere running backs in the league anymore. They all fall apart after a few good seasons. It's a waste of a pick.

Jwalk - JayCutty6Goes - CasinoRoyal
07-09-2008, 12:00 PM
Lex you need to just get over that we didn't draft your guy at running back. That's what this is all about. Shanahan hurt your feelings when he didn't use his first round pick on a back. He used it on the best player available and one that will help the run and the pass game. Anyway, you need to build a bridge and get over it. There aren't really any premiere running backs in the league anymore. They all fall apart after a few good seasons. It's a waste of a pick.

Ill take any of the top 5 backs next year over any back that came out this year anyway...Beani Wells?? Knowshon Moreno?? Leshon McCoy?? Sheesh now thats talent. Mc fadden is tatum bell part 2. Guy has no upper body strenght or lower. Falls down with arm tackles. Who does that sound like? The only back i would have seriously wanted when i think about it now was Stewart but not over a franchise LT.

lex
07-09-2008, 12:01 PM
Lex you need to just get over that we didn't draft your guy at running back. That's what this is all about. Shanahan hurt your feelings when he didn't use his first round pick on a back. He used it on the best player available and one that will help the run and the pass game. Anyway, you need to build a bridge and get over it. There aren't really any premiere running backs in the league anymore. They all fall apart after a few good seasons. It's a waste of a pick.


Which guy was "my guy"? Not only that but Ive frequently advocated not drafting a RB or taking one later over the path we took. I guess you didnt see or understand that I think the half pregnant approach is dumb.

This is really more about not mindlessly getting on board with everyone else...because everyone else is so stellar. And saying something that people disagree with.

Jwalk - JayCutty6Goes - CasinoRoyal
07-09-2008, 12:03 PM
Which guy was "my guy"? Not only that but Ive frequently advocated not drafting a RB or taking one later over the path we took. I guess you didnt see or understand that I think the half pregnant approach is dumb.

This is really more about not mindlessly getting on board with everyone else...because everyone else is so stellar.

So you wanted a RB over an franchise LT? You never heard of building in the trenches first? Do you think any back that went in the first last year is better prospects than Benny Wells? Moreno? McCoy?:confused: Better yet who did you want over Clady? Or Royal?

LoyalSoldier
07-09-2008, 02:42 PM
Yeah, or its more like I said something that a lot of people dont like. Its like that "Should We Trade Brandon Marshall" thread. The very thought made a lot of people upset. Its amazing how much people have softened. The problem is that the reason people have softened is also the reason his trade value has diminished. The thread hinged on a premise though that if you look into the future and being realistic. Those who saw value in trading him, could see more of the same with him. Now, some people had solid reasons for not wanting to trade him but then you also had a lot of emotional knee jerk opposition. Saying, Torain isnt THAT impressive really rubs people the wrong way when they want to blindly believe in him out of pure homerism.


But its amusing how when people agree with me, my posts are awesome but when they dont, they suck. Its really more about the internal turmoil my posts cause some people and not as much about my posts.

No it is because you have called a man a "bargain basement" back

BEFORE HE EVEN PLAYED A DOWN!

I think that alone is enough to make you lose creditability. I don't care what you think of Shanny's methods, but I don't write any of our draft picks off till they show they can't make it in the NFL. I remember just two years ago people were writing Dummervile off in the exact same way.

I thought it was stupid then and I think it is stupid now! I don't say posts suck regularly, but I will say it for some of the ones you have put out. Keep in mind I have never said Mtn_mans, Jrwiz, and even NUBs post suck.

Jwalk - JayCutty6Goes - CasinoRoyal
07-09-2008, 02:45 PM
Good luck trying to tackle Torain when it gets cold... That man has a big bruising body...Might only have a 4-5 year career because of his style of running but hey it should work. If not Knowshon Moreno or Wells...

lex
07-09-2008, 04:57 PM
No it is because you have called a man a "bargain basement" back

BEFORE HE EVEN PLAYED A DOWN!

I think that alone is enough to make you lose creditability. I don't care what you think of Shanny's methods, but I don't write any of our draft picks off till they show they can't make it in the NFL. I remember just two years ago people were writing Dummervile off in the exact same way.

I thought it was stupid then and I think it is stupid now! I don't say posts suck regularly, but I will say it for some of the ones you have put out. Keep in mind I have never said Mtn_mans, Jrwiz, and even NUBs post suck.

At no point in my life, have I ever been worried about "creditability" and certainly not where the herd is concerned.

OMorange&blue
07-09-2008, 05:09 PM
http://content.pyzam.com/funnypics/e/pyzamdickliqour.jpg

LoyalSoldier
07-09-2008, 05:35 PM
At no point in my life, have I ever been worried about "creditability" and certainly not where the herd is concerned.

The funny thing is you act like anyone who doesn't bash Torian is instantly for everything Shanahan does.

Jwalk - JayCutty6Goes - CasinoRoyal
07-09-2008, 05:47 PM
You have to give the guy a shot before you tear him down.

lex
07-09-2008, 05:52 PM
You have to give the guy a shot before you tear him down.

I do only in that, love him or hate him, he's on the team. But I dont really owe him anything where calling it a waste of a pick is concerned.

MOtorboat
07-09-2008, 05:53 PM
Here we go again. Lex is crapping on a player (a fifth round draft pick!) that has never even played.

**EDIT**

lex
07-09-2008, 05:53 PM
The funny thing is you act like anyone who doesn't bash Torian is instantly for everything Shanahan does.

Actually, I reserve that for people who make up words...among other things.

Jwalk - JayCutty6Goes - CasinoRoyal
07-09-2008, 05:55 PM
I do only in that, love him or hate him, he's on the team. But I dont really owe him anything where calling it a waste of a pick is concerned.

Dude how can you say somebody is a waste of pick when they havent even put on the pads yet? You see into the future or something? If so i would like to know if i will be a millionaire at some point in my life.

LoyalSoldier
07-09-2008, 05:57 PM
Actually, I reserve that for people who make up words...among other things.

Make up words? Uh huh.......Batting .100 there.

Jwalk - JayCutty6Goes - CasinoRoyal
07-09-2008, 05:59 PM
Lex? Are you more hurt about us passing a couple of your favorite backs or you know something about Ryan that we dont?

lex
07-09-2008, 06:02 PM
Lex? Are you more hurt about us passing a couple of your favorite backs or you know something about Ryan that we dont?

I know youre trying to steer this towards a conversation about next year. Nice try.

lex
07-09-2008, 06:03 PM
Make up words? Uh huh.......Batting .100 there.

Now, youre making up percentages. Nice. It gets better and better. I cant wait to see what you whip up next in the name of posturing.

Jwalk - JayCutty6Goes - CasinoRoyal
07-09-2008, 06:03 PM
I mean i could have sworn that Ryan was projected as a 2nd round pick untill he got hurt by most scouts right? So we got a 2nd round talent in the 5th round? Not a huge gamble in my opinion. I think most Broncos fans hated that we could not pound it into the endzone last year...I think Torain could help there and if everything goes well he has the frame to be a 25 carry back.

Jwalk - JayCutty6Goes - CasinoRoyal
07-09-2008, 06:04 PM
I know youre trying to steer this towards a conversation about next year. Nice try.

No i really want to know where you get this from?

MOtorboat
07-09-2008, 06:04 PM
Now, youre making up percentages. Nice. It gets better and better. I cant wait to see what you whip up next in the name of posturing.

You can't posture when you've never seen him play.

Oh, that's right, I forgot, you have all the scouting tapes from his college days.

Jwalk - JayCutty6Goes - CasinoRoyal
07-09-2008, 06:05 PM
Well can i see the tapes? Because i cant find any ASU players online. Only high school footage and i liked what i saw to be honest.

lex
07-09-2008, 06:11 PM
No i really want to know where you get this from?

Ive seen Torain play. He's not THAT great. If he has good stats, it will be because of the system.

And you couple that with the idea that there are two opposing approaches to RBs: 1) Theres the approach that says we can get by with anyone....anyone we plug in can get 1000, so we should settle for anyone and use picks on other needs; and then you got 2) the approach that says if you can plug anyone in and they will get 1200 yards, imagine what a high end runner can do. I am of the latter school of thought. Option 1 minimizes our strengths but its more sensible than cutting the baby in half, which is what the Torain pick was.

Also regarding Torain and his draft projection. That was in the preseason before the injury and before all the juniors declared. The fact that Torain was slotted to go that high reflects the absence of the junior RBs which were considerably better than the senior RBs in this draft class. Like I said, I think the 3rd senior RB was taken in the 4th round just to give you some idea how "great" the senior RB class was. So its based on a) having seen him play and b) this erroneous extrapolation that many are making because theyre ignoring the absence of the junior RBs, which were better.

Jwalk - JayCutty6Goes - CasinoRoyal
07-09-2008, 06:16 PM
Ive seen Torain play. He's not THAT great. If he has good stats, it will be because of the system.

And you couple that with the idea that there are two opposing approaches to RBs: 1) Theres the approach that says we can get by with anyone....anyone we plug in can get 1000, so we should settle for anyone and use picks on other needs; and then you got 2) the approach that says if you can plug anyone in and they will get 1200 yards, imagine what a high end runner can do. I am of the latter school of thought. Option 1 minimizes our strengths but its more sensible than cutting the baby in half, which is what the Torain pick was.

Also regarding Torain and his draft projection. That was in the preseason before the injury and before all the juniors declared. The fact that Torain was slotted to go that high reflects the absence of the junior RBs which were considerably better than the senior RBs in this draft class. Like I said, I think the 3rd senior RB was taken in the 4th round just to give you some idea how "great" the senior RB class was. So its based on a) having seen him play and b) this erroneous extrapolation that many are making because theyre ignoring the absence of the junior RBs, which were better.

Dude regardless of it being the system or not, When its all said and done you want something called PRODUCTION. I seen a few ASU games myself. Torain has great quickness, Great feet, And he is a hard runner. He also has pretty good agility to be such a big man. But when the sun sets you still have to give him a shot.

lex
07-09-2008, 06:20 PM
Dude regardless of it being the system or not, When its all said and done you want something called PRODUCTION. I seen a few ASU games myself. Torain has great quickness, Great feet, And he is a hard runner. He also has pretty good agility to be such a big man. But when the sun sets you still have to give him a shot.

No, I want maximum production. I want someone who is good enough not to leave long runs on the table and someone who is fairly durable. Basically, by taking Torain, we are minimizing what should be a strength. Ive already demonstrated how this utility factor that exists with running backs benefits more in total if we take a RB high.

When its a meaningful game and yards are tough to come by, I want that guy who can punish the defense the most when the opening is there and not some guy who is going to slam the ball on the ground after being tackled because of the long run that almost was. The ability to convert that rare opportunity into points, is what I want.

MOtorboat
07-09-2008, 06:21 PM
No, I want maximum production. I want someone who is good enough not to leave long runs on the table and someone who is fairly durable. Basically, by taking Torain, we are minimizing what should be a strength. Ive already demonstrated how this utility factor that exists with running backs benefits more in total if we take a RB high.

And, for the 20-billionth time. You have no way of knowing any of what you just said. None, zip, nada.

lex
07-09-2008, 06:26 PM
And, for the 20-billionth time. You have no way of knowing any of what you just said. None, zip, nada.

Yeah, sure...just like the time I mentioned the idea of an opportunity cost and you accused me of making it up...as if you know what youre talking about. Youre obviously just standing in opposition because youve allowed me to define who you are in large part, which is to say, you really dont stand for anything yourself as much as you oppose me. And here you are again leading the charge of the lilliputian mafia. Yawn.

MOtorboat
07-09-2008, 06:27 PM
Yeah, sure...just like the time I mentioned the idea of an opportunity cost and you accused me of making it up...as if you know what youre talking about. Youre obviously just standing in opposition because youve allowed me to define who you are in large part, which is to say, you really dont stand for anything yourself as much as you oppose me. And here you are again leading the charge of the lilliputian mafia. Yawn.

Actually, I'm pointing out, again...that you cannot be wrong or right about this running back right now. It is impossible. 100 percent impossible to know what is going to happen, and thus 100 percent impossible to asses his performance, or his "opportunity cost."

lex
07-09-2008, 06:35 PM
Actually, I'm pointing out, again...that you cannot be wrong or right about this running back right now. It is impossible. 100 percent impossible to know what is going to happen, and thus 100 percent impossible to asses his performance, or his "opportunity cost."


Youre right. Its a total crapshoot. Thats why there have been more all time great RBs drafted in the 6th round than the 1st round.

MOtorboat
07-09-2008, 06:36 PM
Youre right. Its a total crapshoot. Thats why there have been more all time great RBs drafted in the 6th round than the 1st round.

You're right. The Broncos also accrued much less risk by drafting a running back in the fifth round than the first.

Jwalk - JayCutty6Goes - CasinoRoyal
07-09-2008, 06:39 PM
Youre right. Its a total crapshoot. Thats why there have been more all time great RBs drafted in the 6th round than the 1st round.

Well our best back ever was drafted in the 6th round.

lex
07-09-2008, 08:00 PM
Well our best back ever was drafted in the 6th round.


...and thats why Broncos fans are so easily fooled every time we draft someone like Torain or Mike Bell (who Shanahan also liked...compared him to TD as I recall).

Jwalk - JayCutty6Goes - CasinoRoyal
07-09-2008, 08:22 PM
I think he compared there work ethics. When it was all said and done Mike Bell was just not talented.

lex
07-09-2008, 08:31 PM
You're right. The Broncos also accrued much less risk by drafting a running back in the fifth round than the first.
Actually its less risky for them to take a RB in the first since RB has a smaller bust factor with Denver and also because of the utility factor which Ive previously explained to you.

MOtorboat
07-09-2008, 08:38 PM
Actually its less risky for them to take a RB in the first since RB has a smaller bust factor with Denver and also because of the utility factor which Ive previously explained to you.

Tatum Bell sure proved that true. :rolleyes:

lex
07-09-2008, 08:51 PM
Tatum Bell sure proved that true. :rolleyes:

Typical. Every 5th or 6th Rd pick is Terrell Davis and every RB taken in the 2nd, is Tatum Bell.

Lonestar
07-09-2008, 09:37 PM
once again I'm going to say keep the cheapo personal shots out of the thread .


If you have anything to say without taking shots fine..

:focus:

MOtorboat
07-09-2008, 10:11 PM
Typical. Every 5th or 6th Rd pick is Terrell Davis and every RB taken in the 2nd, is Tatum Bell.

No, just pointing out the flaw in your argument. I've never said Torain will be Terrell Davis. I've just pointed out that you can't judge him off of nothing. You say our "opportunity cost" is maximized by taking a running back in the higher rounds. Well, clearly, that's not true, hence Tatum Bell. Yes, there are two second-round running backs taken by Shanahan, Bell and Portis. One was good, the other was mediocre. Thus, determining your argument that the higher the running back is taken by the Broncos in the draft, the more they maximize their potential. Clearly, that is false. Therefore a running back taken in the fifth round of the draft is less of a risk than one taken in the first or second. Once again, you'll tell me that we should have just signed an undrafted free agent. I'll point to Shanahan's comments that he thinks Torain was a second-round talent. And, you'll notice that the running backs who have eclipsed 1100 yards were taken lower in the draft and not undrafted free agents, once again throwing your argument out the window...again.

Now, again, please explain away your nice little theory.

lex
07-09-2008, 10:22 PM
No, just pointing out the flaw in your argument. I've never said Torain will be Terrell Davis. I've just pointed out that you can't judge him off of nothing. You say our "opportunity cost" is maximized by taking a running back in the higher rounds. Well, clearly, that's not true, hence Tatum Bell. Yes, there are two second-round running backs taken by Shanahan, Bell and Portis. One was good, the other was mediocre. Thus, determining your argument that the higher the running back is taken by the Broncos in the draft, the more they maximize their potential. Clearly, that is false. Therefore a running back taken in the fifth round of the draft is less of a risk than one taken in the first or second. Once again, you'll tell me that we should have just signed an undrafted free agent. I'll point to Shanahan's comments that he thinks Torain was a second-round talent. And, you'll notice that the running backs who have eclipsed 1100 yards were taken lower in the draft and not undrafted free agents, once again throwing your argument out the window...again.

Now, again, please explain away your nice little theory.

Youre saying that you cant judge a guy off of nothing, yet youre arguing against taking a RB higher or taking one later, which is doing precisely that. Nice try.

Actually, Tatum was talented. He was chosen over Mike Anderson who Denver let walk. He had his moments but his undoing was playing through dings that are common throughout the season. But Bell had his moments. He had a couple of big regular season games vs NE and he had that nice Monday night game vs Baltimore. Having said that, he was well short of Portis. But one thing youre missing is that taking a 2nd round RB in one year, is not the same the next year. There area good and bad years for running backs and this was a good year to take a running back high. Instead we took the bargain basement approach because Shanahan has enough of an ego to believe he doesnt need more talent with his system and he also knows that if he goes with the bargain basement approach it will invoke names like Terrell Davis and people will be talking about the system more to go along with the 7-9 season last year.

Besides, this flaw youre speaking of is actually a reason not to take an OT because Foster didnt work out...or not taking a LB in the 1st because Mike Croel didnt work out. This is the flaw in your thinking. Youre using exceptions and even outliers as a basis for concluding you shoudnt take anyone high in the draft. They should minimize risk by trading down to where our highest pick is in the 4th round. This is kind of the line of thinking youre using to build your argument against the notion that players taken higher are more talented.

slim
07-09-2008, 10:25 PM
smh

Broncospsycho77
07-09-2008, 10:31 PM
Youre saying that you cant judge a guy off of nothing, yet youre arguing against taking a RB higher or taking one later, which is doing precisely that. Nice try.

That doesn't change the fact that you've "disowned" him in your signature. The guy has yet to play a down in the NFL, so why are you embarassed that he's on the team? That's ridiculous and dehumanizing.

BTW, didn't your mock draft have us taking Darren McFadden in the 1st round? Just out of curiosity.

lex
07-09-2008, 10:38 PM
That doesn't change the fact that you've "disowned" him in your signature. The guy has yet to play a down in the NFL, so why are you embarassed that he's on the team? That's ridiculous and dehumanizing.

BTW, didn't your mock draft have us taking Darren McFadden in the 1st round? Just out of curiosity.

Yeah, but it was more to emphasize that if we can take him we should. At the time many were saying they wouldnt want him if he fell to 12. I would have been pleased had we traded up to get him. But where the mock you are referring to is concerned, I was saying we should take him if we can. But I would have also been ok with someone like Mendenhall. I wasnt exactly against taking an OL in the 1st either. For the most part I was for taking OL or RB because thats where the value was and I said this numerous times. So it wasnt like I was intolerant of taking an OL.

MOtorboat
07-09-2008, 11:11 PM
Youre saying that you cant judge a guy off of nothing, yet youre arguing against taking a RB higher or taking one later, which is doing precisely that. Nice try.

Actually, Tatum was talented. He was chosen over Mike Anderson who Denver let walk. He had his moments but his undoing was playing through dings that are common throughout the season. But Bell had his moments. He had a couple of big regular season games vs NE and he had that nice Monday night game vs Baltimore. Having said that, he was well short of Portis. But one thing youre missing is that taking a 2nd round RB in one year, is not the same the next year. There area good and bad years for running backs and this was a good year to take a running back high. Instead we took the bargain basement approach because Shanahan has enough of an ego to believe he doesnt need more talent with his system and he also knows that if he goes with the bargain basement approach it will invoke names like Terrell Davis and people will be talking about the system more to go along with the 7-9 season last year.

Besides, this flaw youre speaking of is actually a reason not to take an OT because Foster didnt work out...or not taking a LB in the 1st because Mike Croel didnt work out. This is the flaw in your thinking. Youre using exceptions and even outliers as a basis for concluding you shoudnt take anyone high in the draft. They should minimize risk by trading down to where our highest pick is in the 4th round. This is kind of the line of thinking youre using to build your argument against the notion that players taken higher are more talented.

That's not what I'm arguing at all, but I don't expect you to understand that. You just completely disregard the Bell pick in favor of thinking the Portis pick was maximizing value, which is a blatant disregard for what actually happened.

Your argument has always been about production, not talent, and yet you flip flop on Bell's performance as such. The Broncos took a risk on a second round pick that didn't turn out as good as later-round picks. That, to me anyway, completely disregards any of your argument at all.

Now, you throw out the well, this draft class was better than that draft class argument. That completely deflects your argument, and in fact, goes more towards proving you wrong. Torain was projected as a first-day running back, yet you have this obsession with stating that the junior running backs were better, so the senior class was somehow obsolete.

If this draft class was better than others, then we got a steal and his production will be higher than a fifth-round pick. Instead, you argue that it's better, so we should have picked a running back earlier. That completely goes against any economic term you use to assess the pick.

In fact, Bell's draft class, if you look at it, means the Broncos should have received a lot more than they drafted, but you're not taking that into account one bit. You're judging this draft class without judging any other draft class with any sort of objectivity. In fact the top running back in Clinton Portis' draft class was Willie Green. That completely throws your argument to the wayside.

Once again, your argument loses credability...over and over again.

lex
07-09-2008, 11:26 PM
That's not what I'm arguing at all, but I don't expect you to understand that. You just completely disregard the Bell pick in favor of thinking the Portis pick was maximizing value, which is a blatant disregard for what actually happened.

Your argument has always been about production, not talent, and yet you flip flop on Bell's performance as such. The Broncos took a risk on a second round pick that didn't turn out as good as later-round picks. That, to me anyway, completely disregards any of your argument at all.

Now, you throw out the well, this draft class was better than that draft class argument. That completely deflects your argument, and in fact, goes more towards proving you wrong. Torain was projected as a first-day running back, yet you have this obsession with stating that the junior running backs were better, so the senior class was somehow obsolete.

If this draft class was better than others, then we got a steal and his production will be higher than a fifth-round pick. Instead, you argue that it's better, so we should have picked a running back earlier. That completely goes against any economic term you use to assess the pick.

In fact, Bell's draft class, if you look at it, means the Broncos should have received a lot more than they drafted, but you're not taking that into account one bit. You're judging this draft class without judging any other draft class with any sort of objectivity. In fact the top running back in Clinton Portis' draft class was Willie Green. That completely throws your argument to the wayside.

Once again, your argument loses credability...over and over again.

Once again, you dont even know whats being said. But its not surprising. Ive had to clean up your mess before. And are typically wrong. Again, you advocate minimizing a strength even after Ive provided a mathematical representation of what Im talking about. And I know it wasnt complicated. Its a little disappointing that you didnt understand it but not at all surprising.

Broncospsycho77
07-09-2008, 11:37 PM
Once again, you dont even know whats being said. But its not surprising. Ive had to clean up your mess before. And are typically wrong. Again, you advocate minimizing a strength even after Ive provided a mathematical representation of what Im talking about. And I know it wasnt complicated. Its a little disappointing that you didnt understand it but not at all surprising.

Please, reiterate this train of thought, preferably in more than a sentence or phrase. Let's get back to the roots of this thread... Why is the drafting of Ryan Torrain a publicity stunt by Mike Shanahan?

OMorange&blue
07-09-2008, 11:39 PM
smh
slim, you lost me on this one (no surprise, right?)

"suck my handle"?
"slurp my hole"?
"stupid myopic ho-bag"?

doesn't matter, they all work

:salute:

slim
07-09-2008, 11:41 PM
slim, you lost me on this one (no surprise, right?)

"suck my handle"?
"slurp my hole"?
"stupid myopic ho-bag"?

doesn't matter, they all work

:salute:

Yes.

Broncospsycho77
07-09-2008, 11:42 PM
slim, you lost me on this one (no surprise, right?)

"suck my handle"?
"slurp my hole"?
"stupid myopic ho-bag"?

doesn't matter, they all work

:salute:

Close :lol:

"shake/shaking my head"----> :tsk:

OMorange&blue
07-09-2008, 11:44 PM
Yes.


Close :lol:

"shake/shaking my head"----> :tsk:

ahhh....of course. How silly of me.

LoyalSoldier
07-10-2008, 12:22 AM
Now, youre making up percentages. Nice. It gets better and better. I cant wait to see what you whip up next in the name of posturing.

First of all "your batting .100" is a saying that is an incredibly old and second care to even explain what words I made up? Even if I did the sad thing is that you are now nit picking at my posts.

Sorry, but your posts are getting more and more absurd with every posting.

Timmy!
07-10-2008, 12:56 AM
Oh look, Lex just wants to argue with anybody who doesn't praise his infinite football knowledge. This is new......:rolleyes:

Jwalk - JayCutty6Goes - CasinoRoyal
07-10-2008, 01:30 AM
Mc Fadden is explosive but he has no quickness in and out of his cuts, He has little agility, He falls from arm tackles, His legs are like twigs and he runs upright like LJ. Look what happened to him and he has thick legs? This crush on McFadden is weak. Im glad we didnt trade a first next year for a 10 carry back....Mc Fadden is not even as talented as Reggie Bush but there the same type of back. Torain cant be a wasted pick untill he proves hes a wasted pick. He has the confidence that Shanny believes in him and the work ethic of a Marine!! Let the man have a shot Lex. You will get all riled up next year about the top backs coming out and forget about about McFadden. As a matter of fact when Torain has a Marion Barber effect racking up touchdowns you will forget about Mc Fadden also.

MOtorboat
07-10-2008, 07:25 AM
Once again, you dont even know whats being said. But its not surprising. Ive had to clean up your mess before. And are typically wrong. Again, you advocate minimizing a strength even after Ive provided a mathematical representation of what Im talking about. And I know it wasnt complicated. Its a little disappointing that you didnt understand it but not at all surprising.

These picks blow your theory out of the water:
Detron Smith
Chris Howard
Tatum Bell

Sorry if you can't deal with that fact, but these picks blow your little theory up. I know plenty well what's being said, and I know your argument is completely false, and I know you can't admit it, so now you have to continue on with this charade.

See, lex, its not that I don't understand your argument (evidenced by the entire rest of the board, it's a little hard to follow - I'll put it simpler, you don't make your argument very well), its that your argument doesn't hold a lot of water.

claymore
07-10-2008, 07:30 AM
These picks blow your theory out of the water:
Detron Smith
Chris Howard
Tatum Bell

Sorry if you can't deal with that fact, but these picks blow your little theory up. I know plenty well what's being said, and I know your argument is completely false, and I know you can't admit it, so now you have to continue on with this charade.

See, lex, its not that I don't understand your argument (evidenced by the entire rest of the board, it's a little hard to follow - I'll put it simpler, you don't make your argument very well), its that your argument doesn't hold a lot of water.

Just admit that your wrong MB...... TIA. :coffee:

MOtorboat
07-10-2008, 07:35 AM
Just admit that your wrong MB...... TIA. :coffee:

You're right, clay, a player who's never even seen the field is worthless. Hell, he hasn't even been in full pads, and he's worthless. Shanahan is an idiot.

lex
07-10-2008, 08:44 AM
First of all "your batting .100" is a saying that is an incredibly old and second care to even explain what words I made up? Even if I did the sad thing is that you are now nit picking at my posts.

Sorry, but your posts are getting more and more absurd with every posting.

More posturing. Yawn.

lex
07-10-2008, 08:45 AM
You're right, clay, a player who's never even seen the field is worthless. Hell, he hasn't even been in full pads, and he's worthless. Shanahan is an idiot.

Who is saying Shanahan is an idiot? When was that ever said? Again, with this.

lex
07-10-2008, 08:52 AM
These picks blow your theory out of the water:
Detron Smith
Chris Howard
Tatum Bell

Sorry if you can't deal with that fact, but these picks blow your little theory up. I know plenty well what's being said, and I know your argument is completely false, and I know you can't admit it, so now you have to continue on with this charade.

See, lex, its not that I don't understand your argument (evidenced by the entire rest of the board, it's a little hard to follow - I'll put it simpler, you don't make your argument very well), its that your argument doesn't hold a lot of water.

First of all, you rarely understand anything and since youre part of the herd, it might also be worth considering that Ive pretty much heard everything you can think of to say in the form of a rebuttal. And secondly, wow, I cant believe youre bringing up those names again. Ive already beaten that down. Two of those guy's careers overlapped TDs. You make it so easy to reject your points. TD was taken in the 6th. We were extremely lucky with him. Im fully accepting the likelihood that we would have to take a RB high to get that kind of production. You may be satisfied with getting by but Im not. And we've already discussed the Tatum Bell issue, yet you pretend like it never occurred. Another bad habit of yours.

SR
07-10-2008, 08:57 AM
First of all "your batting .100" is a saying that is an incredibly old and second care to even explain what words I made up? Even if I did the sad thing is that you are now nit picking at my posts.

Sorry, but your posts are getting more and more absurd with every posting.

With all do respect LS, batting .100 is horrible. Batting 1.000 is awesome. But, .100 is like one for ten. Batting 1.000 is ten for ten. I just thought I would correct that for you.

SR
07-10-2008, 08:58 AM
Look everyone, lex must be right because he's the only person that agrees with him. Just let it go.

MOtorboat
07-10-2008, 09:05 AM
Who is saying Shanahan is an idiot? When was that ever said? Again, with this.

Sarcasm. :rolleyes:


First of all, you rarely understand anything and since youre part of the herd, it might also be worth considering that Ive pretty much heard everything you can think of to say in the form of a rebuttal. And secondly, wow, I cant believe youre bringing up those names again. Ive already beaten that down. Two of those guy's careers overlapped TDs. You make it so easy to reject your points. TD was taken in the 6th. We were extremely lucky with him. Im fully accepting the likelihood that we would have to take a RB high to get that kind of production. You may be satisfied with getting by but Im not. And we've already discussed the Tatum Bell issue, yet you pretend like it never occurred. Another bad habit of yours.

You know lex, you ever considered that if no one gets your argument, it might not be the "herd" doesn't understand, it just might very well be your argument is bad?

lex
07-10-2008, 09:20 AM
Sarcasm. :rolleyes:



You know lex, you ever considered that if no one gets your argument, it might not be the "herd" doesn't understand, it just might very well be your argument is bad?

No I havent. I would have to place the herd above myself for that to be so. I dont. Im not going to pretend like I agree with everyone else when I dont. And like Ive said before, Ive actually introduced points that you often ignore or distort. You rarely face up to what I said in its raw form. For example, Ive pointed out that due to some utility factor, drafting a RB maximizes our draft impact more, the higher you take a RB. Youve done nothing to dispell that. Same with opportunity costs. Pretty much all youve done is recycle the same stuff Ive responded to previously but introducing more distortions along the way. Thats your biggest shortcoming in our interaction. If you cant face up to what Ive said with out resorting to distortion, how do you expect me to take you seriously? Again, you make it too easy.

lex
07-10-2008, 09:23 AM
Look everyone, lex must be right because he's the only person that agrees with him. Just let it go.

Yeah, either Im in the top 1% or the bottom 1%, since I disagree with the other 99%. Its extremely unlikely, Im in the bottom 1% considering Ive always been in the top 10%.

Oh, wait! People value false modesty and submitting to the herd here. How silly of me.

Jwalk - JayCutty6Goes - CasinoRoyal
07-10-2008, 09:29 AM
Lex it seems like the reason everybody is bashing is because your nto giving the man a shot...

MOtorboat
07-10-2008, 09:40 AM
If you cant face up to what Ive said with out resorting to distortion, how do you expect me to take you seriously?

Take your own advice.

Davii
07-10-2008, 09:42 AM
Lex is not the subject folks.

:focus:

MOtorboat
07-10-2008, 09:47 AM
Lex is not the subject folks.

:focus:

Neither am I.

Jwalk - JayCutty6Goes - CasinoRoyal
07-10-2008, 09:53 AM
The good thing about all of this is we get to see who was right and who was wrong as the year goes on. So just remember... Im not saying Torain will rush for 2000 yards but i do believe he will play a nice chunky size part in the running game. Being that we dont have a stand out starter yet. Plus we need a bruiser.

Davii
07-10-2008, 09:56 AM
MissouriBronc is not the topic here folks.

:focus:

lex
07-10-2008, 10:10 AM
Take your own advice.

How am I guilty of what Ive addressed to you in the last couple of posts? When you boil this down, it goes back to the two camps I described. Im in one youre in the other and this is a starting point for how you justify the move.

NightTrainLayne
07-10-2008, 10:17 AM
I cannot fathom how this thread continues to go on and on and on. Everything's been said 50 times over again.

Bring on the pre-season!

GEM
07-10-2008, 10:20 AM
:shocked: :tsk: This thread has gotten way off topic and is to the point of ri-friggen-diculous.

Because no one on the board agrees with an opinion they are a herd. If there wasn't such an ego involved, maybe...just maybe someone could open their eyes and see it. Every flippen thread that gets posted in is a downward sprial of disruptiveness. :tsk:

Jwalk - JayCutty6Goes - CasinoRoyal
07-10-2008, 10:23 AM
Thats why i say revisit this topic as the season goes on.

SR
07-10-2008, 10:25 AM
Yeah, either Im in the top 1% or the bottom 1%, since I disagree with the other 99%. Its extremely unlikely, Im in the bottom 1% considering Ive always been in the top 10%.

Oh, wait! People value false modesty and submitting to the herd here. How silly of me.

Actually, the people who usually are in the top 10% are the ones who know it in their head and don't feel the need to express it. That's called modesty. Hate to say it brother, but the top 1% doesn't have Lex in it.

lex
07-10-2008, 10:26 AM
:shocked: :tsk: This thread has gotten way off topic and is to the point of ri-friggen-diculous.

Because no one on the board agrees with an opinion they are a herd. If there wasn't such an ego involved, maybe...just maybe someone could open their eyes and see it. Every flippen thread that gets posted in is a downward sprial of disruptiveness. :tsk:

OK, slow down and back up the truck. You act like Im driving this. The reality is that Im being challenged more than Im challenging others. I could just as easily go at everyone as well. Its more the case that one guy has a different viewpoint and everyone else has their feelings hurt. And you say ego but the flip side would be if I followed the herd.

SR
07-10-2008, 10:29 AM
It's not "following the herd" if "the herd" is right. Sorry lex, but you can't win 'em all. Torain is going to be a beast and you'll be sure to eat crow when he is.

OMorange&blue
07-10-2008, 10:31 AM
No he wont. Its the system.

lex
07-10-2008, 10:31 AM
Actually, the people who usually are in the top 10% are the ones who know it in their head and don't feel the need to express it. That's called modesty. Hate to say it brother, but the top 1% doesn't have Lex in it.

Youre flawed attempt at drawing a correlation between modesty and intelligence aside, you should consider that I dont really constantly dwell on the fact that Im smart unless its pretty much shoved in my face by those who arent, which has been happening a lot lately.

Davii
07-10-2008, 10:34 AM
:mod:

Last reminder folks. The topic is not each other or what camp we fit in or who is a good poster, etc.

The topic is Torain. If we can't keep on topic the thread will be locked.

:focus:

NightTrainLayne
07-10-2008, 10:39 AM
:mod:

Last reminder folks. The topic is not each other or what camp we fit in or who is a good poster, etc.

The topic is Torain. If we can't keep on topic the thread will be locked.

:focus:

Here's where I fit. I don't know if it's part of the herd or not.

Was there somebody better than Torrain we could have targeted in the draft? I'm sure there was.

Will Torrain be effective in our offense? I happen to think so, but we'll have to wait and see.

If Torrain is "effective" and our offense is productive, I really don't care if there could be somebody better out there. If he bombs, then we can play the hind-sight 20/20 game, but for now I'm resigned to actually watching him play when the season starts, rather than quibling over him any more.

How many angels can fit on the head of a pin? Who cares?

GEM
07-10-2008, 10:39 AM
OK, slow down and back up the truck. You act like Im driving this. The reality is that Im being challenged more than Im challenging others. I could just as easily go at everyone as well. Its more the case that one guy has a different viewpoint and everyone else has their feelings hurt. And you say ego but the flip side would be if I followed the herd.

I am saying this as an outsider looking in. You don't take other people's opinions. You just don't. You are condescending to people and from the outside looking in it's completely an ego thing. I'm not jumping your ish, I'm just making an opinion. The reality is you make a really outlandish point and as soon as anyone says anything about you, you go defensive. It's in most of the posts you make. We get that you know football, we get that you love football. You just need to understand that some of the things you post are out there and when not agreed with, you jump defensive and it ruins the intent of the original thread.

I don't go in here posting a whole lot, so don't throw me in with the "herd". I just thought an outsider's opinion might help you see what the people you are fighting with see.

:cheers:

OMorange&blue
07-10-2008, 10:41 AM
Dont let her lie to you. She's our leader.

LoyalSoldier
07-10-2008, 10:41 AM
More posturing. Yawn.

More dodging and posting nonsense. Can't ever answer a question...... *yawn*

GEM
07-10-2008, 10:42 AM
Dont let her lie to you. She's our leader.

You shut your mouth!

:laugh:

OMorange&blue
07-10-2008, 10:43 AM
Yes ma'am.

:salute:

BroncoWave
07-10-2008, 10:45 AM
OMG.

Lex is Ludicrous.

SR and Nub are Ridiculous.


Therefore I must go Plad.

High-five for the Spaceballs joke! :salute:

Lonestar
07-10-2008, 10:48 AM
:mod:

Last reminder folks. The topic is not each other or what camp we fit in or who is a good poster, etc.

The topic is Torain. If we can't keep on topic the thread will be locked.

:focus:

lets have 30 minute time out so folks can

:focus:

Then if we have coherent thoughts on torain great if not it is closed..


see you at 1015 or so..

Lonestar
07-10-2008, 11:19 AM
lets have 30 minute time out so folks can

:focus:

Then if we have coherent thoughts on torain great if not it is closed..


see you at 1015 or so..

OK speed bump is now removed but play nice.. or this will be closed forever..


:focus:

MOtorboat
07-10-2008, 11:21 AM
OK speed bump is now removed but play nice.. or this will be closed forever..


:focus:

Close it.

We are not going to be able to have a productive Torain thread until the season starts, jmho.

NightTrainLayne
07-10-2008, 11:27 AM
Close it.

We are not going to be able to have a productive Torain thread until the season starts, jmho.

Second that.

BroncoNut
07-10-2008, 11:28 AM
I recommend this thread be locked and resurrected no more.

underrated29
07-10-2008, 11:31 AM
High-five for the Spaceballs joke! :salute:



Yeah, I was a little late into the topic so i couldnt get the joke to go smoothly, but i am glad atleast someone got it. :beer:

Lonestar
07-10-2008, 11:47 AM
Close it.

We are not going to be able to have a productive Torain thread until the season starts, jmho.


Second that.


I recommend this thread be locked and resurrected no more.



We all know that this would not happen someone would just open another torain thread and much would be rehashed in it..


If no one rebuts each other time and time again and just ignores outrageous claims or theories then it will fall by the way side.. .

Until TC opens when someone will be proved silly..

Kapeish?

OMorange&blue
07-10-2008, 11:51 AM
Gesundheit.

Kaylore
07-10-2008, 02:03 PM
So you wanted a RB over an franchise LT? You never heard of building in the trenches first? Do you think any back that went in the first last year is better prospects than Benny Wells? Moreno? McCoy?:confused: Better yet who did you want over Clady? Or Royal?

You look so much smarter than anyone playing iconoclast and disagreeing for disagreement sake. And considering no one has played yet and we won't know how good these guys are, and won't for several years anyway, your incessant whining about how screwed we are for not taking a round one RB makes you look even more brilliant. Carry on. :rolleyes:

OMorange&blue
07-10-2008, 02:49 PM
You look so much smarter than anyone playing iconoclast and disagreeing for disagreement sake. And considering no one has played yet and we won't know how good these guys are, and won't for several years anyway, your incessant whining about how screwed we are for not taking a round one RB makes you look even more brilliant. Carry on. :rolleyes:

quoted the wrong guy K.

OMorange&blue
07-10-2008, 02:50 PM
or maybe not. The bootleg is a mis-direction play.

BroncoNut
07-10-2008, 02:59 PM
We all know that this would not happen someone would just open another torain thread and much would be rehashed in it..


If no one rebuts each other time and time again and just ignores outrageous claims or theories then it will fall by the way side.. .

Until TC opens when someone will be proved silly..

Kapeish?

None for me, thanks

Lonestar
07-10-2008, 03:02 PM
None for me, thanks

guess we will see you 25JUL back in the thread..