Have we become more of a passing team?

[lex]

I realize our MO for a long time has been to get bargain basement personnel for the running game and then rely on the system or the acumen of our coach to make the running game work. But now we have Jay Cutler and when you look at how we have been drafting, does it not seem like we are loading up on the passing game? I mean, when it came to drafting a tackle, we took the one who allegedly was the best suited for pass blocking. And then, of course, we took a WR in the 2nd in Royal. And not only that but we also signed 3 WRs in the offseason, none of which were great but at the same time it was clear they were trying to generate more competition 1-5.

Personally, if we become more reliant on the pass and if Jay is getting it done, it would not be so bad...especially if he is fulfilling his potential. Under that scenario, I could live with the pass opening up the run.

BTW, the title should say "...more of a passing team than a running team?"

[Lonestar]

If you really think royale is going to accomplish anything as WR for the next 2-3 years I suspect your smoking something really good..

It is a rare Rookie WR that does anything in the NFL and even less so on the Broncos..

Unless every veteran that is on the team goes down with an injury it is unlikely he will see much more than 10-15 passes this year..

He was drafted to be a KR guy and then take over for brandon as the slot guy when he hangs them up..

As far as the rest of the FA vets brought in it is unlikely that more than one sticks past the 2009 season..

Do not fool yourself mickey is a run first type guy that allows the run to set up the passing game.. It is unlikely that this leopard has changed his spots..

[NameUsedBefore]

I'd say we've become more balanced, but the run-game is still the bread-and-butter.

[Dean]

Mike Shanahan has always believed in balance with slightly more run than pass. He did this when he had a hall of fame QB in Elway. I can't see him changing.

Jay has all the talent in the world but he hasn't shown the ability to put the team on his shoulders and carry them to a victory,

[OMorange&blue]

jeebus...

[DenBronx]

look for shanahan to draft a running back early if the bargain basement running back scenario doesnt work this year. if torain, pittman and young do not do so well i see us drafting a stud or making a trade for a top 5 rb. under shanny denver has always been a run first team.

[lex]

jeebus...

Things like this make you content-los.

[underrated29]

Well JR i disagree that royal will only be a slot wr. I think he is going to be a legit #2 along the lines of a santana moss, or lee evans. But this thread isnt about that so....

I think yes we are going to be more of a passing team until the defense gets back to its old usual form of being a top 10 defense. Once that is done we will also go back to the usual and pound and grind and control the clock. And when the other team is battered and tired we go for the long ball, or bring in our speed demon (hall, young, aldridge) and burn em big.

However, the defense isnt quite back to form so yes this year and probably some next year we will be a big passing team.

I have always been the praponent of start out with a bunch of short quick throws and slants to gain some first downs and then hit them with the run.

[turftoad]

As Cutler gets better so will our passing game. Drafting Clady doesn't mean we're designing our offense for the pass more than the run.
He was the best OT on the board at #12 and was also a need.
Royal will probably be a RS the first year (which was also a need) and will be groomed as a WR for the future.

We brought in a couple of half assed FA WR's that are stop gap guys. Had we brought in a big name FA WR than I could see us being a pass first offense. We didn't.

I think we'll still be ballanced on "O" and that's what we're gearing up for.

I'm still more worried about our run "D". It was just ugly last year.

[OMorange&blue]

Things like this make you content-los.

fail

[oubronco]

If you really think royale is going to accomplish anything as WR for the next 2-3 years I suspect your smoking something really good..

It is a rare Rookie WR that does anything in the NFL and even less so on the Broncos..

Unless every veteran that is on the team goes down with an injury it is unlikely he will see much more than 10-15 passes this year..

He was drafted to be a KR guy and then take over for brandon as the slot guy when he hangs them up..

As far as the rest of the FA vets brought in it is unlikely that more than one sticks past the 2009 season..

Do not fool yourself mickey is a run first type guy that allows the run to set up the passing game.. It is unlikely that this leopard has changed his spots..



but playing in the slot will make it a helluva lot easier on Royal to make a contribution and with Marshal and Kolbert/ Jackson/ Parker or whoever starts at #2 taking the heat off of him he'll do something with his speed

[Lonestar]

but playing in the slot will make it a helluva lot easier on Royal to make a contribution and with Marshal and Kolbert/ Jackson/ Parker or whoever starts at #2 taking the heat off of him he'll do something with his speed

Yes but I'd be surprised if he gets more than 20 receptions this year. as the slot guy in not on the field all downs..

Go back and look at how many rookie WRs in DEN have fared with the number of catches in their rookie years I threw in some sizes also.


royale 5'10" rookie
marshall.. 20 6'4"
hixon..ZIP
Watts..31 6'2"
luke..6
madise..2
ashley..35 6'3"
haygood.. ZIP 5'11"
kasper.. 8 6'1"
cole.. zip 6'0"
muneer moore...ZIP 6'0"
McGriff.. 3 5'8"
Plummer... ZIP 6'3"
billy miller... 5 6'3"
nash... 4 6'3"


Rookie WR in DEN SUCK.. Being behind Stokely and Marshall makes it almost impossible to see meaningful playing time.. Even if he is a wiz bang receiver there is so much more than catching balls when playing for mikey..

[WARHORSE]

If he caught 40 passes, that would be a huge contribution.

[Lonestar]

If he caught 40 passes, that would be a huge contribution.


but he will not..as a rookie unless 3-4 others are injured and unable to play..

[SR]

Mike Shanahan has always believed in balance with slightly more run than pass. He did this when he had a hall of fame QB in Elway. I can't see him changing.

Jay has all the talent in the world but he hasn't shown the ability to put the team on his shoulders and carry them to a victory,

:confused:

[dekers]

If you look at last year, we were able to move the ball very well between the 20 to the 20. But that's when are drives stalled , because we could not run near the goal line. ( we lost a lot of games because we could not finish are drives and get touchdowns ) I think we have brought in more passing weapons to open it up in the red zone. Other teams will have to respect are ability to pass in the red zone , which in turn will open up the run game down by the goal line.

[omac]

I think Shanny was envious of the Pats and Colts QBs and decided he needed one who can also make all the passes. I still think we'll run more, but we'll definitely have much more pocket passing than before.

[Ziggy]

I think we have become more of a passing team by necessity, and not design. Since we can't seem to get either the red-zone yardage, or the short yardage when needed, the pass has been utilized more.

[oubronco]

If you look at last year, we were able to move the ball very well between the 20 to the 20. But that's when are drives stalled , because we could not run near the goal line. ( we lost a lot of games because we could not finish are drives and get touchdowns ) I think we have brought in more passing weapons to open it up in the red zone. Other teams will have to respect are ability to pass in the red zone , which in turn will open up the run game down by the goal line.


we need one of those wr like the pats who pushoff in the endzone and get away with it like when they beat the ravens that was awful

[Jwalk - JayCutty6Goes - CasinoRoyal]

Nope, However i think were more dangerous because we can spread teams out now if we want too. Just gives DCs another demention to worry about when playing us. Because we are the Broncos so we are going to run the ball BUT now we can torch that ass with Cutler passing the ball now.

[Retired_Member_001]

To be a passing team, you need four things and they are all fairly obvious:

1. Good offensive line.

2. Good Wide receivers

3. Good Quarterback.

4. A running back that can get good yards when absolutely needed.

Apart from the 3rd one, the other three are all massive question marks. I think we will be a "balanced" team next season. If the wide receivers do well, and if the Offensive line do well, I think we will turn into more of a passing team.

I think we have the ability to turn into a passing team. We just aren't quite there yet.

[Lonestar]

To be a passing team, you need four things and they are all fairly obvious:

1. Good offensive line.

2. Good Wide receivers

3. Good Quarterback.

4. A running back that can get good yards when absolutely needed.

Apart from the 3rd one, the other three are all massive question marks. I think we will be a "balanced" team next season. If the wide receivers do well, and if the Offensive line do well, I think we will turn into more of a passing team.

I think we have the ability to turn into a passing team. We just aren't quite there yet.


good points but I really doubt we will ever be a pass first team unless our running backs never mature..

Mikeys running philosophy is as ingrained as any I have ever seen.. there are going to be some games when they force us to pass first to open up the run.. Beyond that we will use the run to set up the passing game and TOP..

[Retired_Member_001]

good points but I really doubt we will ever be a pass first team unless our running backs never mature..

Mikeys running philosophy is as ingrained as any I have ever seen.. there are going to be some games when they force us to pass first to open up the run.. Beyond that we will use the run to set up the passing game and TOP..

I do agree. However, if Cutler develops at a phenominal rate, and if none of our running backs turn out amazing, I think Shanahan will want to play to his strengths and pass the ball more.

[lex]

bump


Anyone thinking differently about this?

[Lonestar]

bump


Anyone thinking differently about this?


I really doubt we will ever be a pass first team unless our running backs never mature..

Mikeys running philosophy is as ingrained as any I have ever seen.. there will be some games when they force us to pass first to open up the run.. Beyond that we will use the run to set up the passing game and TOP..

TOP in the NFL game is critical, since we do not have a dominant DL and certainly not real DEEP there in top flight players. We need to keep the D of the field AMAP.

Remember folks how young this team is.. 3 year QB 2-second year RB's with a couple of rookies there.. 3rd year WR and some older newbies. 3rd TE, Graham and Nate. a couple of fragile fossils on the eh OLINE and everyone else pretty much rookie or so green behind their ears they should be counted as a rookie..

ON D a one legged DT that can dominate if he is on the field.. the rest journey men or second second payers..

LB one pro bowl type player and the rest the jury is still out on..

DB on HOF and the rest marginal starters as we speak..

We grind it out as much as we can.. keep that D off the field and fresh.

[Requiem / The Dagda]

bump


Anyone thinking differently about this?

It's always been a system where establishing the run was pertinent, but with the options Cutler has (and I hope we draft at least another) at receiver and tight end, I can't help but see us passing the ball more. I'd really like to see us get to the Green Bay or New England level of pass success last year. I'd settle for Green Bay, because New England obviously seems unlikely.

I'd say with the mediocre talent level we have at RB (I do like some of those guys) -- we might be forced to throw the ball more if they can't establish themselves in the running game.

Couple that in in with the fact that our line right now is pass blocking much better than they are run blocking; and I think you Lex -- could be on to something.

[Rick]

While Shannys track record in Denver has been run first His historical record suggests it is certainly possible we may become a pass first team.

We have the talent to become one.

I certainly don't remember back in the day when Shanny was OC in San Fran that the 49ers ran, ran, ran and then let Montana/Young toss it some...

As head coach here it has been different but really, besides Elway(and we had TD then) and now Cutler, what QB did we have that we felt we could honestly be a pass first team?

[lex]

It's always been a system where establishing the run was pertinent, but with the options Cutler has (and I hope we draft at least another) at receiver and tight end, I can't help but see us passing the ball more. I'd really like to see us get to the Green Bay or New England level of pass success last year. I'd settle for Green Bay, because New England obviously seems unlikely.

I'd say with the mediocre talent level we have at RB (I do like some of those guys) -- we might be forced to throw the ball more if they can't establish themselves in the running game.

Couple that in in with the fact that our line right now is pass blocking much better than they are run blocking; and I think you Lex -- could be on to something.

Thanks. And just to put out there that being more of a passing team doesnt necessarily mean calling more passing plays. It could also mean calling the same play distribution but being more effective at passing than we are at running and correspondingly, the opposing defenses putting greater emphasis on stopping the pass than the run. There was a time when we could dictate terms by deciding to run and then doing so. Not so much the case anymore. This is one of the reasons I would like us to draft Duke Robinson. Id like to see us be equally adept at both. Now, I feel we are stronger at passing. In fact as the season starts, Id really like to see us pass more on first down.

[lex]

While Shannys track record in Denver has been run first His historical record suggests it is certainly possible we may become a pass first team.

We have the talent to become one.

I certainly don't remember back in the day when Shanny was OC in San Fran that the 49ers ran, ran, ran and then let Montana/Young toss it some...

As head coach here it has been different but really, besides Elway(and we had TD then) and now Cutler, what QB did we have that we felt we could honestly be a pass first team?
Youre looking at it like if you have the QB, you pass more, which kind of makes sense, although, even with a great QB, its still better to be able to run the ball as we could once. There are a couple of old axioms: "A good running team will usually beat a good passing team" and also " any time you pass the ball three things can happen and two of them are bad." These two old sayings interface with each other, plus if you can score a lot of points by running the ball, you put more pressure on the other team than if you score a lot of points by passing the ball.

I think the Broncos scoring 500 points as a run first team, is more impressive than what the Vikings did in 98 or what the Pats did last year. But at the same time, its also important to know your strengths and for where we are now, I think we are stronger at passing than at running.

[Lonestar]

I think we may become more efficient than we have been the past couple of years with Jay and a couple of decent WR's as well as TE's .

We have had ONLY one WR for years, ROD a great one that scared few defenses but a productive possession type. When doubled we had little to counter with..

Now we have Marshall, Djack and royale along with a couple of others to keep the DB's honest. have not had this kind of talent and depth since i can remember..

We have sucked in the TE department since Sharpe retired and bunch converted or hurt players.

If Scheffler can beat Nate out of a starting job and blossom like everyone thinks he can then that will be another area that the defense has to cover..


But I still think we will run the ball more IF the kiddies can stay healthy and the OLINE gets to know each other.. It will not be by design that we become a pass first team..

[lex]

I think we may become more efficient than we have been the past couple of years with Jay and a couple of decent WR's as well as TE's .

We have had ONLY one WR for years, ROD a great one that scared few defenses but a productive possession type. When doubled we had little to counter with..

Now we have Marshall, Djack and royale along with a couple of others to keep the DB's honest. have not had this kind of talent and depth since i can remember..

We have sucked in the TE department since Sharpe retired and bunch converted or hurt players.

If Scheffler can beat Nate out of a starting job and blossom like everyone thinks he can then that will be another area that the defense has to cover..


But I still think we will run the ball more IF the kiddies can stay healthy and the OLINE gets to know each other.. It will not be by design that we become a pass first team..

Scheffler is a better TE than Jackson. Its not even a question. Plus he has a rapport with Jay. As far as TEs go, its Graham (blocking) and Scheffler (receiving). And Scheffler could potentially be a pro-bowler because he is capable of putting up some numbers. Nate Jackson is Nate Jackson.

[Lonestar]

Scheffler is a better TE than Jackson. Its not even a question. Plus he has a rapport with Jay. As far as TEs go, its Graham (blocking) and Scheffler (receiving). And Scheffler could potentially be a pro-bowler because he is capable of putting up some numbers. Nate Jackson is Nate Jackson.


the term potential is correct, so far this year he has not shown it.. Unless i blinked when he was doing it..

So far Nate seems to be getting the playing time.. That speaks volumes to me..

[lex]

the term potential is correct, so far this year he has not shown it.. Unless i blinked when he was doing it..

So far Nate seems to be getting the playing time.. That speaks volumes to me..

It tells me they want to look at whether Nate is worth keeping around. How long has he been here? What has he done? Scheffler did more in his first year than Jackson has down in his entire time with us. I think the Broncos want to play Jackson while he's healthy to decide whether or not to continue giving him the benefit of the doubt.

[Lonestar]

It tells me they want to look at whether Nate is worth keeping around. How long has he been here? What has he done? Scheffler did more in his first year than Jackson has down in his entire time with us. I think the Broncos want to play Jackson while he's healthy to decide whether or not to continue giving him the benefit of the doubt.


Mikey likes Nate always has always will. I'm not exactly sure why, but had he not been hurt so much Scheffler IMO would have never been drafted..

Nate is cheap and makes good clutch catches.

Like I said unless Scheffler is still not 100% and that could be the reason he has done little this summer.

Regardless Nate stays as number 3 TE.

[hamrob]

but he will not..as a rookie unless 3-4 others are injured and unable to play..You know I often times can't tell what the heck you're watching to make these type of statements. Royal is going to be a big contributor this year and will catch at least 40 balls. When was the last time the Broncos used a #1 on a Tackle and started him from the get go? Please answer me that Mr. Wiz!

Royal is kicking butt...both in practice and the games. Jay flippin Cutler is saying that they are unstoppable with Marshall and Royal on the field.

If you truly believe he will have less than 20 catches this year...you need to relax and try very hard to come back to reality.

:-)

[hamrob]

Mikey likes Nate always has always will. I'm not exactly sure why, but had he not been hurt so much Scheffler IMO would have never been drafted..

Nate is cheap and makes good clutch catches.

Like I said unless Scheffler is still not 100% and that could be the reason he has done little this summer.

Regardless Nate stays as number 3 TE.Wrong again. Sheff is coming back from his foot injury and the coaches want him to work his way back into the flow. This is Jay's team...Sheff will be the man when we get to the real games. Jackson...if healthy is another weapon at his disposal.

[G_Money]

Nate Jackson and Tony Scheffler play the same position the same way. Both are receiving TEs who create mismatches against LBs who can't run with them.

Scheffler is coming up for a new long-term contract after this year. Both he and Jackson have had health issues. If Jackson can do what Scheffler can do and will do it for much cheaper, then you have to look at it. We did when we drafted Scheffler and let the Catching Cowboy Jeb Putzier move along. We wanted that receiving TE position filled, but didn't need to pay Jeb a bunch of money to do it.

Scheff is gonna want to get paid. Whether we pay him or not depends on several factors (him staying healthy, us wanting to make Jay happy by keeping his friend on the team, length and cost of re-signing him) but one of those factors is probably whether Nate can do what he does on the cheap.

~G

[hamrob]

Nate Jackson and Tony Scheffler play the same position the same way. Both are receiving TEs who create mismatches against LBs who can't run with them.

Scheffler is coming up for a new long-term contract after this year. Both he and Jackson have had health issues. If Jackson can do what Scheffler can do and will do it for much cheaper, then you have to look at it. We did when we drafted Scheffler and let the Catching Cowboy Jeb Putzier move along. We wanted that receiving TE position filled, but didn't need to pay Jeb a bunch of money to do it.

Scheff is gonna want to get paid. Whether we pay him or not depends on several factors (him staying healthy, us wanting to make Jay happy by keeping his friend on the team, length and cost of re-signing him) but one of those factors is probably whether Nate can do what he does on the cheap.

~GWell said. Although, I think chemistry is often under-rated and Scheff and Jay have great chemistry. I think if he stays healthy...he will catch 50+ balls for us his year. I hope Jackson stay healthy as well, because he can line up in receiving situations and create mismatches and provided Cutler with another weapon to work with...but I think Scheff is and will be the man.

Additionally, didn't I read somewhere that Jackson hurt his shoulder in last nights game? Something about a separation?

[honz]

Nate Jackson injured? Never!

[Lonestar]

Originally Posted by Jrwiz
but he will not..as a rookie unless 3-4 others are injured and unable to play..


You know I often times can't tell what the heck you're watching to make these type of statements. Royal is going to be a big contributor this year and will catch at least 40 balls. When was the last time the Broncos used a #1 on a Tackle and started him from the get go? Please answer me that Mr. Wiz!

Royal is kicking butt...both in practice and the games. Jay flippin Cutler is saying that they are unstoppable with Marshall and Royal on the field.

If you truly believe he will have less than 20 catches this year...you need to relax and try very hard to come back to reality.

:-)

Originally Posted by Jrwiz
Mikey likes Nate always has always will. I'm not exactly sure why, but had he not been hurt so much Scheffler IMO would have never been drafted..

Nate is cheap and makes good clutch catches.

Like I said unless Scheffler is still not 100% and that could be the reason he has done little this summer.
Regardless Nate stays as number 3 TE.



Wrong again. Sheff is coming back from his foot injury and the coaches want him to work his way back into the flow. This is Jay's team...Sheff will be the man when we get to the real games. Jackson...if healthy is another weapon at his disposal.


You really need to read my posts better..

IN the second one I made no illusions that Nate is either better or not one of Jays Favorite..

IN the first one I had made statement in the beginning of JULY at the time un-refuted about rookies playing in Mikeys offense and what they accomplished in their rookie year.

Now after watching him in a couple of preseason games, he may be that one kid that gets 40+ catches. But I do not think he will get much more than that.. If he does that means IMHO that the running game went to pot, and Djack and Scheffler have been spending time in the doghouse or training table..

Please remember that in mikeys offense WR have to be able to block for the running game and run precise routes.. OR at least they used to have to do so..

Typically something that rookies do not "get" much in their first have of the season and then most run into a wall about game 10-11..

Everyone is hyped about certain players after a couple of "preseason does not mean anything games".. Lets see what really happens in the fall..

I remember a lot of phenoms in preseason once they have to play against real CB in real games really do not do so well..

I hope I'm wrong here but history says I'm not..

[Broncos Mtnman]

If you really think royale is going to accomplish anything as WR for the next 2-3 years I suspect your smoking something really good..

It is a rare Rookie WR that does anything in the NFL and even less so on the Broncos..

Unless every veteran that is on the team goes down with an injury it is unlikely he will see much more than 10-15 passes this year..

He was drafted to be a KR guy and then take over for brandon as the slot guy when he hangs them up..

As far as the rest of the FA vets brought in it is unlikely that more than one sticks past the 2009 season..

Do not fool yourself mickey is a run first type guy that allows the run to set up the passing game.. It is unlikely that this leopard has changed his spots..


I don't know what game you were watching, but Royal is tearing it up.

He not only will see more than 10-15 passes this year, he's going to be the #2 receiver, beating out the veteran free agents we signed this year.

He's the real deal, and he'll be the starter sooner rather than later.

AND.....

He'll be the return guy we've been needing.

[Broncos Mtnman]

As far as the title of this thread, I think we will be more balanced than we have been in a long time, which means we will be passing more. That doesn't mean we've become a passing team as much as it means that we've been unable to trust the pass for quite some time.

Jay will be a Pro Bowl QB this year.

[Ziggy]

but he will not..as a rookie unless 3-4 others are injured and unable to play..

I'm going to say that he catches at least 30 this season if he doesn't get injured. He's just too tough to get a jam on at the line of scrimmage, and he has great hands. I know everyone was shocked when we drafted him in the 2nd round, but I think he's going to turn out to be another very good draft pick.

[LordTrychon]

lol....

JR may have been early in his statement that Royal will not contribute as a WR this year... but it's pretty funny how many are responding to it like he posted it today.

[topscribe]

If you really think royale is going to accomplish anything as WR for the next 2-3 years I suspect your smoking something really good..

It is a rare Rookie WR that does anything in the NFL and even less so on the Broncos..

Unless every veteran that is on the team goes down with an injury it is unlikely he will see much more than 10-15 passes this year..

He was drafted to be a KR guy and then take over for brandon as the slot guy when he hangs them up..

As far as the rest of the FA vets brought in it is unlikely that more than one sticks past the 2009 season..

Do not fool yourself mickey is a run first type guy that allows the run to set up the passing game.. It is unlikely that this leopard has changed his spots..

Haven't smoked anything in years, JR, and then it was nothing stronger
than Camel Filters (which is strong enough :faint: ).

But Fast Eddie Royal is indeed rare, and he's proving it. Long before they
went to Houston, Shanny indicated Fast Eddie was close to challenging as
a starter. Shanny commented that he could do things on the field that not
many could do.

Moreover, when Shanny was asked this week whether this will be more of
a passing or running team, he responded that we will be what we will be. In
other words, he'll take what they give him. Thing about it is, he has not
had that luxury for some time. Before, with no more talent than he had at
his disposal, he had to set up the pass with the run. Now, with Jay, BMarsh,
Scheff, Stokes, and Fast Eddie, and the line coming together faster than I
thought it would, he can take it at will. And he proved it against a very
good defensive team this week.

But Fast Eddie isn't going to wait for Stokes to quit. He's taking what he
can get, and he's doing it now. Because he can.

-----

[underrated29]

lol....

JR may have been early in his statement that Royal will not contribute as a WR this year... but it's pretty funny how many are responding to it like he posted it today.



Lol- I was thinking that too.

Go back and look at when these posts were made. We made them way back in early july. Before any Training Camp, or practice.

And yes- do take note to the fact that i said royal would be big pimpin' before we saw him on our field. (back when we drafted him)

ok- cockiness aside. Give JR a break, it was a while ago and he has a great point. Our rookies wr, usually suck. Not always, but usually. So until royal finishes the year with 980 yards and 11 tds he is the more valid.

JR- your clock is a tickin' because fast eddie is a commin'.

[LordTrychon]

Lol- I was thinking that too.

Go back and look at when these posts were made. We made them way back in early july. Before any Training Camp, or practice.

And yes- do take note to the fact that i said royal would be big pimpin' before we saw him on our field. (back when we drafted him)

ok- cockiness aside. Give JR a break, it was a while ago and he has a great point. Our rookies wr, usually suck. Not always, but usually. So until royal finishes the year with 980 yards and 11 tds he is the more valid.

JR- your clock is a tickin' because fast eddie is a commin'.

I don't think even JR could be so pessimistic to post what he did after recent developments. ;)

[hamrob]

By JRWIZYou really need to read my posts better..

IN the second one I made no illusions that Nate is either better or not one of Jays Favorite..

IN the first one I had made statement in the beginning of JULY at the time un-refuted about rookies playing in Mikeys offense and what they accomplished in their rookie year.

Now after watching him in a couple of preseason games, he may be that one kid that gets 40+ catches. But I do not think he will get much more than that.. If he does that means IMHO that the running game went to pot, and Djack and Scheffler have been spending time in the doghouse or training table..

Please remember that in mikeys offense WR have to be able to block for the running game and run precise routes.. OR at least they used to have to do so..

Typically something that rookies do not "get" much in their first have of the season and then most run into a wall about game 10-11..

Everyone is hyped about certain players after a couple of "preseason does not mean anything games".. Lets see what really happens in the fall..

I remember a lot of phenoms in preseason once they have to play against real CB in real games really do not do so well..

I hope I'm wrong here but history says I'm not

I just got the fact that your comments regarding Royal were from a month ago. Safe to say that you feel differently today then you did at the beginning of July. Do you still believe that DJack will start in front of Royal? I guess we will have to wait until week 3 to find out...but my money is on Royal.

As for Nate vs. Scheff, yes Shanny likes Nate...why?...probably because the kid is a good guy and the football Gods or God (Bill Walsh) thought highly of him....oh...and he does have talent. Regardless, I think Shanny also understands the talent that Scheff has and the Chemistry he has with Cutler. Perhaps you're right and Nate becomes the #2 guy...we'll have to wait and see...but again I disagree with you, my money is on Scheff.

[Lonestar]

I don't know what game you were watching, but Royal is tearing it up.

He not only will see more than 10-15 passes this year, he's going to be the #2 receiver, beating out the veteran free agents we signed this year.

He's the real deal, and he'll be the starter sooner rather than later.

AND.....

He'll be the return guy we've been needing.

did you also note that this post was a month ago? I expected more out of you.. see the post directly above yours for the current info on the kid.. post 40

[Nature Boy]

The Broncos Running backs suck.

[omac]

The passing game was excellent, and as for the running, Hall looked really good, specially when he ran inside for the TD. Despite his size, he was moving tacklers backwards after the initial hit.

Although this was only preseason, this was against one of the leagues top run defenses, so that's a good thing.

[EMB6903]

If you really think royale is going to accomplish anything as WR for the next 2-3 years I suspect your smoking something really good..

It is a rare Rookie WR that does anything in the NFL and even less so on the Broncos..

Unless every veteran that is on the team goes down with an injury it is unlikely he will see much more than 10-15 passes this year..

He was drafted to be a KR guy and then take over for brandon as the slot guy when he hangs them up..

As far as the rest of the FA vets brought in it is unlikely that more than one sticks past the 2009 season..

Do not fool yourself mickey is a run first type guy that allows the run to set up the passing game.. It is unlikely that this leopard has changed his spots..

by the way the first 2 pre season games have gone and the way our 1st team offense has played (i know its pre season and all) this post has cracked me up looking back at it...so far you couldnt be more wrong.

[topscribe]

The passing game was excellent, and as for the running, Hall looked really good, specially when he ran inside for the TD. Despite his size, he was moving tacklers backwards after the initial hit.

Although this was only preseason, this was against one of the leagues top run defenses, so that's a good thing.

If you review Hall's TD highlight, you will see a Dallas Cowboy hanging onto
Hall, as Hall drags him with him across the goalline. Now, a quick check of the
#56 on that Cowboy's back reveals that he is 250-lb James Brady.

Hall may be small, but that ain't all. There's some power behind that Mighty Mite. :nod:

-----

[omac]

If you review Hall's TD highlight, you will see a Dallas Cowboy hanging onto
Hall, as Hall drags him with him across the goalline. Now, a quick check of the
#56 on that Cowboy's back reveals that he is 250-lb James Brady.

Hall may be small, but that ain't all. There's some power behind that Mighty Mite. :nod:

-----

Yup! He probably uses leverage real well. He'll definitely have a much lower center of gravity than most defenders he'll face, so that's a good thing. :cheers:

[broncobryce]

And, once the final cuts are made, maybe we will pick up TJ Duckett or somebody for insurance until Torrain is back. I've heard people suggest Alexander, but I think he is done plus he wants starters money. (he needs to retire.)

[omac]

And, once the final cuts are made, maybe we will pick up TJ Duckett or somebody for insurance until Torrain is back. I've heard people suggest Alexander, but I think he is done plus he wants starters money. (he needs to retire.)

Najeh Davenport is available now, but he might have character concerns. Talent-wise, he'd be a very serviceable backup.

[broncosinindy]

I think we may become more efficient than we have been the past couple of years with Jay and a couple of decent WR's as well as TE's .

We have had ONLY one WR for years, ROD a great one that scared few defenses but a productive possession type. When doubled we had little to counter with..

Now we have Marshall, Djack and royale along with a couple of others to keep the DB's honest. have not had this kind of talent and depth since i can remember..

We have sucked in the TE department since Sharpe retired and bunch converted or hurt players.

If Scheffler can beat Nate out of a starting job and blossom like everyone thinks he can then that will be another area that the defense has to cover..


But I still think we will run the ball more IF the kiddies can stay healthy and the OLINE gets to know each other.. It will not be by design that we become a pass first team..

i hope you are not including the years we had EM and SS

[MOtorboat]

i hope you are not including the years we had EM and SS

:confused:

[OMorange&blue]

I realize our MO for a long time has been to get bargain basement personnel for the running game and then rely on the system or the acumen of our coach to make the running game work. But now we have Jay Cutler and when you look at how we have been drafting, does it not seem like we are loading up on the passing game? I mean, when it came to drafting a tackle, we took the one who allegedly was the best suited for pass blocking. And then, of course, we took a WR in the 2nd in Royal. And not only that but we also signed 3 WRs in the offseason, none of which were great but at the same time it was clear they were trying to generate more competition 1-5.

Personally, if we become more reliant on the pass and if Jay is getting it done, it would not be so bad...especially if he is fulfilling his potential. Under that scenario, I could live with the pass opening up the run.

BTW, the title should say "...more of a passing team than a running team?"

yes...

[Kaylore]

People forget the days of Griese pre-arm injury with a younger Eddie-Mac, a Rod Smith just entering his prime, and Sharpe with a lot in the tank. We were always a team with a dynamic passing game. We shifted away from that a bit to tailor or offense toward Plummer's strengths and weaknesses. We're back to our roots.

It doesn't hurt that it's becoming a passing league, either.

[DenBronx]

lol....

JR may have been early in his statement that Royal will not contribute as a WR this year... but it's pretty funny how many are responding to it like he posted it today.

lol he posted that back on 07-07....so i think after seeing what royal could do in a couple of games he might think otherwise now. i know alot of people are pretty shocked at how fast this kids developing. i for one hope he continues to get better. i would love for royal to prove everyone wrong...nothing wrong with that. im sure jrwiz wouldnt have a problem if he became a star wr....at least i hope not.

[DenBronx]

People forget the days of Griese pre-arm injury with a younger Eddie-Mac, a Rod Smith just entering his prime, and Sharpe with a lot in the tank. We were always a team with a dynamic passing game. We shifted away from that a bit to tailor or offense toward Plummer's strengths and weaknesses. We're back to our roots.

It doesn't hurt that it's becoming a passing league, either.


i think we have depended on the running game to be our savior with basement running backs for too long. i think next year we will look for a game changing franchise back. however, after seeing mikey blunder wr choices for so many years its nice to see he trying to put alot of emphasis on the passing game.

[claymore]

lol he posted that back on 07-07....so i think after seeing what royal could do in a couple of games he might think otherwise now. i know alot of people are pretty shocked at how fast this kids developing. i for one hope he continues to get better. i would love for royal to prove everyone wrong...nothing wrong with that. im sure jrwiz wouldnt have a problem if he became a star wr....at least i hope not.


i think we have depended on the running game to be our savior with basement running backs for too long. i think next year we will look for a game changing franchise back. however, after seeing mikey blunder wr choices for so many years its nice to see he trying to put alot of emphasis on the passing game.
After Watts and nameless others, its easy to say I told you so now. I was a little more sold on royal though. ;)

:D

[DenBronx]

After Watts and nameless others, its easy to say I told you so now. I was a little more sold on royal though. ;)

:D

well...looking back we should have kept hixon and cut martinez. some guys take forever to develop and some guys make an impact the first day they hit the field. with the exception of the phenom marshal, it does seem like royal is more nfl ready than any wr rookie we have had in a while. royal is the type of wr if he has the open field its going to be very hard to catch him, that is why he is so good as a returner. i'm hoping we see him with lots of snaps these next 2 games and id like to see what he can do against some good db's.

[Lonestar]

lol he posted that back on 07-07....so i think after seeing what royal could do in a couple of games he might think otherwise now. i know alot of people are pretty shocked at how fast this kids developing. i for one hope he continues to get better. i would love for royal to prove everyone wrong...nothing wrong with that. im sure jrwiz wouldnt have a problem if he became a star wr....at least i hope not.


I hope he becomes what everyone thinks he is now..

I doubt that he will have that much impact once the season starts and Marshall is back from his suspension.. We have all seen this before, a rookie tearing it up in TC only to disappear till mid season and then hit the rookie wall.

Rookie WR in Mikeys offense just have not done well. 30-40 passes max over the years.. IF that, most have been an after thought..

But of course if the injury bug hits he might see more time.

Time will tell..

[SarahKay]

As long as its 50-50 I'm cool with it.

Passing is always exciting.. and a great running game can even be more exciting. This year should be a great year. Cant see what Jay and the receiving corps can do.

[WhatEver!!!]

As long as its 50-50 I'm cool with it.

Passing is always exciting.. and a great running game can even be more exciting. This year should be a great year. Cant see what Jay and the receiving corps can do.

It seems you quoted my thoughts exactly. There is nothing like seeing the RB get the ball in the backfield, disappear behind the linemen only to reappear breaking it for a TD.

I also think, with our new WRs, we should go for the deepball more often. We saw that in the Cow game but I am thinking more like what NE does. We have to deal the deathblow. We have seen too many times in the pass few years when we lead at the half only to loss or barely win. Put the game away!!! Pass every down, NO. But do not start to run out the clock with only a 10 point lead with 2 quarters to go.

Yes, it would be great to see (once in a while) a 1 minute drive. Hopefully the Dline will get some pressure on the QB so our great CB coup can do what they do.

[WhatEver!!!]

As long as its 50-50 I'm cool with it.

Passing is always exciting.. and a great running game can even be more exciting. This year should be a great year. Cant see what Jay and the receiving corps can do.

It seems you quoted my thoughts exactly. There is nothing like seeing the RB get the ball in the backfield, disappear behind the linemen only to reappear breaking it for a TD.

I also think, with our new WRs, we should go for the deepball more often. We saw that in the Cow game but I am thinking more like what NE does. We have to deal the deathblow. We have seen too many times in the pass few years when we lead at the half only to loss or barely win. Put the game away!!! Pass every down, NO. But do not start to run out the clock with only a 10 point lead with 2 quarters to go.

Yes, it would be great to see (once in a while) a 1 minute drive. Hopefully the Dline will get some pressure on the QB so our great CB corp can do what they do.

[lex]

bump

[JONtheBRONCO]

Yes...... AND I LOVE IT!!! FAST Eddie BABAAYY!

[JONtheBRONCO]

You have got to play to the strength of your team... Cutler.. Eddie looks good, the line looks.. Oh my, better than I've seen in a long time. I don't even care if it is the Raiders, they got to Cutty last year.. Clady looks solid in PP.

[MOtorboat]

I absolutely love what I'm seeing, but I'm not going to hide the fact that our lack of balance may hurt us against better teams.

I think we're showing that knack for putting bad teams out of their misery, but I worry about not being able to compete in close, ball-control type games.

[lex]

You have got to play to the strength of your team... Cutler.. Eddie looks good, the line looks.. Oh my, better than I've seen in a long time. I don't even care if it is the Raiders, they got to Cutty last year.. Clady looks solid in PP.

Agreed. Imagine how much more dangerous it will be when Marshall comes back...assuming Jay is still looking at the whole field and doesnt revert to locking onto Marshall.

[lex]

I absolutely love what I'm seeing, but I'm not going to hide the fact that our lack of balance may hurt us against better teams.

I think we're showing that knack for putting bad teams out of their misery, but I worry about not being able to compete in close, ball-control type games.

As much as Id like to see the second coming of the 97/98 Broncos, Id settle for a competent offense that can absolutely punish the other team. If Jay gets time like that all year, I feel good in most games. Jay is one of the best passers in the NFL.

[MOtorboat]

As much as Id like to see the second coming of the 97/98 Broncos, Id settle for a competent offense that can absolutely punish the other team. If Jay gets time like that all year, I feel good in most games. Jay is one of the best passers in the NFL.

Oh, I agree with that, but I think a little more balance may be needed against better teams.

This isn't much of a test so far, especially since Oakland just cannot move the ball.

[MOtorboat]

P.S. That was better with Andre...

[broncofaninfla]

It used to be we would establish the run to open the pass, looks like now we will establish the pass to open the run. Guess what folks? We have ourselves a SOLID offense this year. Pray none of the key players get hurt.

[HolyDiver]

With Royal and Marshall, I definately think we are a pass first team now.

[Tned]

bump

I think we are back to being a 'Shanahan' team. Meaning this.

Creating a game plan to take advantage of the opponents weaknesses, whether that means run heavy, pass heavy or more balanced.

They used to say, "give Shanahan two weeks and he can come up with a game plan to beat anyone". So, while you have to have the personell to execute the game plan, and typically you only have one week, the basics of the statement are what is important.

The basic concept of that statement is that Shanahan's strength is finding and exposing a defenses weakness.

So, while with better pass protection, we have FAR more options available, in general I think we are going to see Shanahan go back to no being predictable. One week we might come out passing 8 of the first 10 plays, another week running 8 of the first 10, and some weeks five pass, five runs.

I think our 'identity' will be change week to week, based on what the other team's weaknesses are.

[BigDaddyBronco]

I think we have struggled to have a great passing game over the last few years due to the lack of depth at receiver.

Case in point for the improvement in the receiving corps, how many passes were thrown to Graham last night. Zero maybe. That is good news in my book.

[broncofaninfla]

I think we are back to being a 'Shanahan' team. Meaning this.

Creating a game plan to take advantage of the opponents weaknesses, whether that means run heavy, pass heavy or more balanced.

They used to say, "give Shanahan two weeks and he can come up with a game plan to beat anyone". So, while you have to have the personell to execute the game plan, and typically you only have one week, the basics of the statement are what is important.

The basic concept of that statement is that Shanahan's strength is finding and exposing a defenses weakness.

So, while with better pass protection, we have FAR more options available, in general I think we are going to see Shanahan go back to no being predictable. One week we might come out passing 8 of the first 10 plays, another week running 8 of the first 10, and some weeks five pass, five runs.

I think our 'identity' will be change week to week, based on what the other team's weaknesses are.

I totally agree :beer:

[nj10]

If you really think royale is going to accomplish anything as WR for the next 2-3 years I suspect your smoking something really good..

It is a rare Rookie WR that does anything in the NFL and even less so on the Broncos..

Unless every veteran that is on the team goes down with an injury it is unlikely he will see much more than 10-15 passes this year..

He was drafted to be a KR guy and then take over for brandon as the slot guy when he hangs them up..

As far as the rest of the FA vets brought in it is unlikely that more than one sticks past the 2009 season..

Do not fool yourself mickey is a run first type guy that allows the run to set up the passing game.. It is unlikely that this leopard has changed his spots..


Thank you for that expert analysis...:coffee:

[Lonestar]

Thank you for that expert analysis...:coffee:

your welcome..

What happened last not was not normal mikey.. He has always set up the pass with the run. But then occasionally he designs game plans to take advantage of the defenses weakness and that obviously was misdirection plays and passing the ball..

Did anyone think that having two rookie OT's would not have gotten Jay killed?

Now next week it will be a better test against a true 3-4 D with the personnel to make the OLINE wonder who is coming after the QB each snap. And typically this ZBS has struggled running the ball against good 3-4's..

[Tned]

your welcome..

What happened last not was not normal mikey.. He has always set up the pass with the run. But then occasionally he designs game plans to take advantage of the defenses weakness and that obviously was misdirection plays and passing the ball..

Did anyone think that having two rookie OT's would not have gotten Jay killed?

Now next week it will be a better test against a true 3-4 D with the personnel to make the OLINE wonder who is coming after the QB each snap. And typically this ZBS has struggled running the ball against good 3-4's..

I think that anyone that watched the preseason, saw indications that this line (including the tackles) were going to be the best pass protection line in years.

As to setting up the pass with the run, that isn't what Shanny has always done. In recent years (the Plummer years), when the Broncos had the number 1 rushing game, and a so/so passing game, they certainly set up the pass with the run. If you go back to the Elway years, they were just as likely to setup the run with the pass, as they were to setup the pass with the run.

Sometimes they started off smashing TD down their throats, other times they started out with Elway passing all over the field.

The only thing we don't know right now is whether or not this team can run the ball first. If they can run the ball when they have to.

[lex]

I think we are back to being a 'Shanahan' team. Meaning this.

Creating a game plan to take advantage of the opponents weaknesses, whether that means run heavy, pass heavy or more balanced.

They used to say, "give Shanahan two weeks and he can come up with a game plan to beat anyone". So, while you have to have the personell to execute the game plan, and typically you only have one week, the basics of the statement are what is important.

The basic concept of that statement is that Shanahan's strength is finding and exposing a defenses weakness.

So, while with better pass protection, we have FAR more options available, in general I think we are going to see Shanahan go back to no being predictable. One week we might come out passing 8 of the first 10 plays, another week running 8 of the first 10, and some weeks five pass, five runs.

I think our 'identity' will be change week to week, based on what the other team's weaknesses are.

Most coaches embrace balance. So to try to script balance into the play calling doesnt really say a lot. The bigger question is what will we do when we need to score. Last night compared to the way we were able to pass the ball, our running plays looked token. While the play selection may reflect a desire to be a balanced team, actually watching us be far more adept at passing than we are at running tells a different story and one that is more telling.

[NameUsedBefore]

I agree with the 'balanced' sentiment. A passing team would be like the Rams in its heyday.

[BigDaddyBronco]

I agree with the 'balanced' sentiment. A passing team would be like the Rams in its heyday.
Or the Lions last year under Mike Martz's offense.

[NameUsedBefore]

Or the Lions last year under Mike Martz's offense.

I think any Mike Martz's offense in general is a good meter for a passing team :lol:

[lex]

I agree with the 'balanced' sentiment. A passing team would be like the Rams in its heyday.

If you are a lot better at passing, calling 50% pass/run plays doesnt make you balanced as opposed to a passing team.

[Tned]

Most coaches embrace balance. So to try to script balance into the play calling doesnt really say a lot. The bigger question is what will we do when we need to score. Last night compared to the way we were able to pass the ball, our running plays looked token. While the play selection may reflect a desire to be a balanced team, actually watching us be far more adept at passing than we are at running tells a different story and one that is more telling.

I have agreed that to date (pre-season and game 1) the running game hasn't looked well, which is why I stated, "The only thing we don't know right now is whether or not this team can run the ball first. If they can run the ball when they have to."

However, while most teams 'strive to be balanced', when Shanahan had both a passing game and running game (late '90s), he didn't strive to be anything, he gameplanned for the opposing team, and became a run-first team or a pass-first team, based on who he was playing.

Some weeks he passed to setup the run, some weeks he ran to setup the pass.

What we don't know right now, is whether or not this team can run, to setup the pass game and play action.

However, early indications are that the line can protect well enough to be a pass-first team, but San Diego should be a good test to see if that is the case.

[lex]

I have agreed that to date (pre-season and game 1) the running game hasn't looked well, which is why I stated, "The only thing we don't know right now is whether or not this team can run the ball first. If they can run the ball when they have to."

However, while most teams 'strive to be balanced', when Shanahan had both a passing game and running game (late '90s), he didn't strive to be anything, he gameplanned for the opposing team, and became a run-first team or a pass-first team, based on who he was playing.

Some weeks he passed to setup the run, some weeks he ran to setup the pass.

What we don't know right now, is whether or not this team can run, to setup the pass game and play action.

However, early indications are that the line can protect well enough to be a pass-first team, but San Diego should be a good test to see if that is the case.

I think if the defense played us anything close to honestly, we would try to run the ball. If teams made it outrageously easy to pass but loading up on the run, then, yeah, we'd pass. But if teams respected both, we would revert to running. I mean, we ran the ball for 100 yards in how many consecutive playoff games? I think the reason we still ran the ball is because in most cases we knew the other team didnt want to give up easy pass plays also. Otherwise, youd see alternating 100 yard rushing games and 300 yards passing games.

[Tned]

I think if the defense played us anything close to honestly, we would try to run the ball. If teams made it outrageously easy to pass but loading up on the run, then, yeah, we'd pass. But if teams respected both, we would revert to running. I mean, we ran the ball for 100 yards in how many consecutive playoff games? I think the reason we still ran the ball is because in most cases we knew the other team didnt want to give up easy pass plays also. Otherwise, youd see alternating 100 yard rushing games and 300 yards passing games.

We had a HOF QB and one of the best RB's in the game, it was tough for them to defend, for sure, but even during Griese's era, sometimes from the very first play (as in Elway's era) the scripted plays would be almost all pass, because the team maybe had a tendency to play 8 in the box with a strong run defense, and Shanahan would pass to setup the run.

My only pont, based on watching every game Shanahan has coached for the Broncos is that while he clearly is a proponent of running the ball, what he really is, is a guy that likes misdirection and to play to a team's weaknesses and from week to week that can be polar opposites. If we played a great run D next week, he might come out going shotgun in the early part of the game to loosen up the D, or in a standard set, but with three wide. He simply doesn't fall within 'normal' stereotypes of run first or pass first coaches.

[lex]

bump

[BroncoTech]

If you really think royale is going to accomplish anything as WR for the next 2-3 years I suspect your smoking something really good..

It is a rare Rookie WR that does anything in the NFL and even less so on the Broncos..

Unless every veteran that is on the team goes down with an injury it is unlikely he will see much more than 10-15 passes this year..

He was drafted to be a KR guy and then take over for brandon as the slot guy when he hangs them up..

As far as the rest of the FA vets brought in it is unlikely that more than one sticks past the 2009 season..

Do not fool yourself mickey is a run first type guy that allows the run to set up the passing game.. It is unlikely that this leopard has changed his spots..

Hey no dis-respect this quote is from July, and who knew...
But it does look kinda of funny reading it now. I guess it depends on the rookie.

[Lonestar]

Hey no dis-respect this quote is from July, and who knew...
But it does look kinda of funny reading it now. I guess it depends on the rookie.


Yep have said a few times it was wrong .. but I'd make the same prediction the next time around..

Rookie WR in the NFL are general seen but never heard from..

their is about one a year worth a damn.. and mikeys record for drafting WR is now at 2 for 18 during his time in DEN.. Considering Marshall was nothing REAL special his rookie year the bet would still be a safe one..

I figured that Jay would have been running for his life considering he had two rookie tackles in front of him, a rookie ORG and a concussion waiting to happen at OLG and a realllllllly old guy at center..

NO one really thought this OLINE would gel this fast for pass protection.. Anyone that says they really believed that is lying.. they may have hoped but it was all dreams..

Glad I was wrong.. now if they could all get on the same PAGE..