Why is Steve Atwater's #27 Not Retired?

[Overtime]

Why is Steve Atwater's number 27 not retired?

Why does some little punk like No-show Morono allowed to wear the number of one of the greatest, hardest hitting, most ferocious Safety to ever play the game?

I believe Pat Bowlen needs to rectify this situation and retire Atwater's #27 and add it to the Broncos Ring of Fame.

[BroncoWave]

Just to piss you off.

[Northman]

There would be simply too many numbers to retire. Atwater is my 2nd favorite Bronco player of alltime but the reality is if you retired every number there just wouldnt be anything left. I believe Shannon's isnt retired either and he was a much more impactful player than Steve when all was said and done.

[pnbronco]

Love your passion for Atwater OT. However I've heard from more than one player that knew both Atwater and Dennis Smith, they all said that Smith hit just as hard on the field if not harder and was a terror at Safety. Plus Dennis was passing on his knowledge as he got older and became like a player/coach and could read any play on the field.

[Italianmobstr7]

Just like North said, because there's not enough numbers available to retire them for every great player Denver has ever had. We'd have to retire #80, #84, #30 etc... I love Atwater as much as the next guy, but several players have worn #27 since Atwater retired.

[T.K.O.]

http://photos.upi.com/story/preview/97243987d1e96974c58aa01a86935e7a/NFL-RAIDERS-BRONCOS.jpg:salute:

[TXBRONC]

If Denver retired the number of every great player there wouldn't be any left to use.

[Overtime]

not saying all of them, but Steve Atwater was above and beyond great. I definitely think his number should be retired without question.

[Slick]

He might have had a shot had he not left us for the Jets.

Oh how I miss him and Dennis Smith. Two absolute studs.

[atwater27]

Without Atwater we would have lost the Green Bay Super Bowl. And who knows, that probably would have destroyed Elway's and the rest of the team's confidence and we would not even have gone to play Atlanta the next year. #27 belongs in the rafters.

[Magnificent Seven]

We need to keep # 27 rolling... because it is part of Mile High Magic. Steve Atwater and Darrent Williams were outstanding players. So, I am hoping that Moreno will be other outstanding player with that number.

# 7 is part of Mile High Magic...however, that number did a lot of things for city of Denver.

[Denver Native (Carol)]

Without Atwater we would have lost the Green Bay Super Bowl. And who knows, that probably would have destroyed Elway's and the rest of the team's confidence and we would not even have gone to play Atlanta the next year. #27 belongs in the rafters.

I could also say without #7's helicopter, we would have lost that SB. And, without TD running crazy we would have lost that SB. Many Bronco players made plays in that game.

I am not dissing Atwater, as I feel him, as well as other Broncos, are more than deserving to be in the HOF.

[Northman]

I could also say without #7's helicopter, we would have lost that SB. And, without TD running crazy we would have lost that SB. Many Bronco players made plays in that game.

I am not dissing Atwater, as I feel him, as well as other Broncos, are more than deserving to be in the HOF.

Yea, i think we've learned by now that it took a complete team to win those championships. Some could easily say that John Mobley's play at the end was the key factor and so on. Love Atwater, but his coverage skills were a little less to be desired as good as a hard hitter that he was. He wasnt nearly as special as some other Bronco greats but he was fun to watch.

[EMB6903]

There would be simply too many numbers to retire. Atwater is my 2nd favorite Bronco player of alltime but the reality is if you retired every number there just wouldnt be anything left. I believe Shannon's isnt retired either and he was a much more impactful player than Steve when all was said and done.
Much more impactful player?

Atwater~~~~~~~~>Sharpe

[Italianmobstr7]

Without Atwater we would have lost the Green Bay Super Bowl. And who knows, that probably would have destroyed Elway's and the rest of the team's confidence and we would not even have gone to play Atlanta the next year. #27 belongs in the rafters.

We'd have lost to Green Bay without a lot of the players on that team... Terrell Davis for one. The entire offensive line... Atwater was great, there's no denying it. He didn't have the impact on the Broncos like a player like Floyd Little or John Elway did. He didn't even play for us every game of his career (Not that it was his fault). He deserves to be in the ring of fame, but not to have his jersey retired.

[Bosco]

He might have had a shot had he not left us for the Jets.

Oh how I miss him and Dennis Smith. Two absolute studs.

Just to be clear here, the Broncos (mainly Greg Robinson) dumped Atwater. I believe Atwater was even willing to take a pay cut to stay but they wanted to get Eric Brown on the field full time and use the savings to sign Dale Carter.

[Northman]

Just to be clear here, the Broncos (mainly Greg Robinson) dumped Atwater. I believe Atwater was even willing to take a pay cut to stay but they wanted to get Eric Brown on the field full time and use the savings to sign Dale Carter.

Considering he spent most of that season hurt it turned out to be the right move by Denver. Steve didnt want to retire (obviously even though he did retire after that season with the Jets) so Denver had make a decision which Shanahan basically puts ownership on.

From Atwater's book "Think like a Champion".

Mike Shanahan:

"The toughest decision I've ever had to make as a head coach happened a mere two weeks after we beat the Atlanta Falcons (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Atlanta_Falcons) in the Super Bowl. We were getting ready to leave for the annual college scouting combine in Indianapolis...when our eight-time Pro Bowl safety and defensive captain Steve Atwater dropped by our training complex. He visited our defensive coordinator, Greg Robinson (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Greg_Robinson), and defensive back coach, Ed Donatell (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ed_Donatell), inquiring about his future. Steve was smart enough to know that we were scheduled to pay him $3 million in 1999 and that we were pressed up against the NFL-imposed salary cap (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Salary_cap)...He asked Greg and Ed 'Am I going to be here? What's my status for next year?'

"In all honesty, our initial plan was to wait until March 1st, when we would have asked Steve to take a salary reduction to give us more flexibility under the salary cap...but the more I thought about it, and the more I agonized over it, the more I realized that...it could not wait, not when Steve had brought the issue to a head... It would have been so simple to temporarily sweep the problem underneath the rug. It certainly would have made things easier on me and the organization for a while. But that would not have been fair to Steve. So, in what was the most difficult decision I've had to make...I decided to cut Steve.

"...the decision was best for all parties. We saved money we needed, Steve had a chance to shop himself as an unrestricted free agent, and he wound up signing a three-year, $8.2 million contract with the New York Jets. Is it easy picturing Steve in green and white...? No. Was it the right thing for him and our team? Absolutely."

[Overtime]

well, the one thing about Atwater I loved most, was that when the Broncos needed a big play in a big game, he always came through, and to me that defines his worth as having his # retired.

[Dean]

well, the one thing about Atwater I loved most, was that when the Broncos needed a big play in a big game, he always came through, and to me that defines his worth as having his # retired.

Atwater was a huge hitter and a very good safety :2thumbs: but your statement "when the Broncos needed a big play in a big game, he always came through" Is going a bit too far IMO. I thought Dennis Smith (in his prime) was the better overall safety of the two. I am not trying to dump on Steve but I don't remember it that way. :peep:

[nbenallo33]

...now comming in at wide reciever # 188 demaryius thomas!


that would just sound retarded

[JDL]

Just to be clear here, the Broncos (mainly Greg Robinson) dumped Atwater. I believe Atwater was even willing to take a pay cut to stay but they wanted to get Eric Brown on the field full time and use the savings to sign Dale Carter.

That's not entirely accurate. Atwater was also unwilling to be the backup and it was clear at that point he had worn down. I don't begrudge him leaving or the team letting him see if he could find a starting position somewhere. He did. He is one of the very elite Broncos of all-time and belongs in the Hall of Fame let alone ring of fame.

Also - it is a major disservice to say there were a ton of players that were irreplaceable on that Super Bowl team. Yeah there were a lot of great players, but we replaced Zimmerman with Harry Swayne and won the Super Bowl the next year and TD had his very best season. Atwater was the 2nd best player on the field that day, period. TD then him. If TD doesn't deservingly win MVP, Atwater would have. He and TD bailed out the team in so many respects during that game. In case you forget, 1) we could not pass the ball at ALL! 2) We could not stop Green Bay and the two plays that led to significant stops, including the game winning stops were the two biggest momentum plays for the D. It is silly essentially make the argument they were all important... there is important and then there is crucial... see Zimmerman. We wouldn't be as good without some of those guys sure, but Atwater had one of the all-time greatest games by a defensive player and he did it in a Super Bowl that took super human efforts from him and TD to win it.

[Ravage!!!]

Same reason Karl Mecklenburg's #77 isn't retired.

[atwater27]

That's not entirely accurate. Atwater was also unwilling to be the backup and it was clear at that point he had worn down. I don't begrudge him leaving or the team letting him see if he could find a starting position somewhere. He did. He is one of the very elite Broncos of all-time and belongs in the Hall of Fame let alone ring of fame.

Also - it is a major disservice to say there were a ton of players that were irreplaceable on that Super Bowl team. Yeah there were a lot of great players, but we replaced Zimmerman with Harry Swayne and won the Super Bowl the next year and TD had his very best season. Atwater was the 2nd best player on the field that day, period. TD then him. If TD doesn't deservingly win MVP, Atwater would have. He and TD bailed out the team in so many respects during that game. In case you forget, 1) we could not pass the ball at ALL! 2) We could not stop Green Bay and the two plays that led to significant stops, including the game winning stops were the two biggest momentum plays for the D. It is silly essentially make the argument they were all important... there is important and then there is crucial... see Zimmerman. We wouldn't be as good without some of those guys sure, but Atwater had one of the all-time greatest games by a defensive player and he did it in a Super Bowl that took super human efforts from him and TD to win it.

Couldn't agree more man. the guy played (and hit) his heart out. He was in on so many defensive stops, tackles, assisted tackles, defended passes. He had a sack and a forced fumble. That performance would have made him super bowl MVP in many a Super Bowl. Offense gets all the glory, though.
Steve Atwater was a phenomenal, hall of fame worthy player. To say he doesn't deserve to have his number retired is to have never seen him play.

[TXBRONC]

Couldn't agree more man. the guy played (and hit) his heart out. He was in on so many defensive stops, tackles, assisted tackles, defended passes. He had a sack and a forced fumble. That performance would have made him super bowl MVP in many a Super Bowl. Offense gets all the glory, though.
Steve Atwater was a phenomenal, hall of fame worthy player. To say he doesn't deserve to have his number retired is to have never seen him play.

I understand the sentiment about retiring Atwater's number but I don't think it's as important as remembering the great years he gave us. We would have gotten the production out him regardless of what number he wore.

[BroncoWave]

Couldn't agree more man. the guy played (and hit) his heart out. He was in on so many defensive stops, tackles, assisted tackles, defended passes. He had a sack and a forced fumble. That performance would have made him super bowl MVP in many a Super Bowl. Offense gets all the glory, though.
Steve Atwater was a phenomenal, hall of fame worthy player. To say he doesn't deserve to have his number retired is to have never seen him play.

I watched him play and I don't think his number should be retired. This is nothing against him at all either. I just look at the standard the players with retired numbers have set: Elway and Little. Both were lifelong Broncos who were the faces of the franchise for basically their entire careers . While Atwater was great, he wasn't quite on that plateau IMO.

[atwater27]

I watched him play and I don't think his number should be retired. This is nothing against him at all either. I just look at the standard the players with retired numbers have set: Elway and Little. Both were lifelong Broncos who were the faces of the franchise for basically their entire careers . While Atwater was great, he wasn't quite on that plateau IMO.

No defensive players can have the overall impact of a Quarterback, 1st of all, second of all, IMO Atwater is higher on my list of all time Broncos greats than Floyd Little. He and Dennis Smith.

[BroncoWave]

No defensive players can have the overall impact of a Quarterback, 1st of all, second of all, IMO Atwater is higher on my list of all time Broncos greats than Floyd Little. He and Dennis Smith.

Defensive players can be the face of their franchise. Ever heard of Ray Lewis? Lawrence Taylor?

[Italianmobstr7]

No defensive players can have the overall impact of a Quarterback, 1st of all, second of all, IMO Atwater is higher on my list of all time Broncos greats than Floyd Little. He and Dennis Smith.

Well that's because you're biased. I never got the pleasure of watching Floyd Little play, but I did get to see Atwater. Atwater was absolutely great. I have read A LOT about Floyd Little though, and if you have Atwater ranked above him either you haven't seen or read about Little much. Floyd WAS the Denver Broncos. Nicknamed "The Franchise." If it wasn't for Floyd Little there would be no Denver Broncos. He helped save the team and keep them in Denver by going door to door and BEGGING people to donate money to build a stadium to keep the team in Denver. The greatest running back in Syracuse history (yes, even better than Jim Brown). Atwater was great, but he wasn't the franchise, or even the franchises best player at any time in his career. The ONLY 2 Broncos who deserve to have their numbers retired right now, are the ones that do. John Elway, Frank Tripucka, Floyd Little. That's it. Just those 3. It's too late to retire the number now anyways, it's been used by at least 3 players since Atwater retired. I know you love Atwater, but his jersey number will never be retired by the Broncos and it never should.

[Dirk]

I loved Atwater. A fan favorite for sure. But the same could be said for Tyrone Braxton. Who's numbers were better except in tackles IIRC. I could be wrong about that. I believe Atwater made it to more PBs too.

Point being is that a fan favorite won't generally get their number retired. They have to be almost like a "saving grace" of a player to have that honor, like Elway and Little.

[atwater27]

Defensive players can be the face of their franchise. Ever heard of Ray Lewis? Lawrence Taylor?

They aren't safeties. Anyways, obviously we disagree. I would have thought the smilin assassin would have more support here. Apparently I'm wrong.

[atwater27]

I loved Atwater. A fan favorite for sure. But the same could be said for Tyrone Braxton. Who's numbers were better except in tackles IIRC. I could be wrong about that. I believe Atwater made it to more PBs too.

Point being is that a fan favorite won't generally get their number retired. They have to be almost like a "saving grace" of a player to have that honor, like Elway and Little.

Atwater was twice the player Braxton was IMO.

[atwater27]

I guess over 1000 tackles, 8 pro bowls and 2 All Pro Teams doesn't mean shit around here.

[BroncoWave]

I think you are taking this way too personally because he's your favorite player. NO ONE is discrediting anything he did or saying anything negative about him. Just because we don't think his jersey should be retired doesn't mean we think any less of him as a player.

Retiring a jersey is the highest honor a team can give a player. As great a player as Atwater was, he just didn't have the impact on our franchise that Little or Elway did.

[pnbronco]

I really respect Atwater and I'm so grateful for the time he played here in Denver, he was a great Bronco. There are just not enough #'s to retire all the great Broncos we have had in Denver. I believe that's why the Broncos have the Ring of Fame. Hopefully more of those guys will make it to the Hall of Fame.

[Denver Native (Carol)]

I really respect Atwater and I'm so grateful for the time he played here in Denver, he was a great Bronco. There are just not enough #'s to retire all the great Broncos we have had in Denver. I believe that's why the Broncos have the Ring of Fame. Hopefully more of those guys will make it to the Hall of Fame.

I totally agree - Pat Bowlen has not turned his back on honoring the Broncos greats.

http://www.denverbroncos.com/team/tradition/ring-of-fame.html

The Denver Broncos Ring of Fame was created in 1984 by team owner Pat Bowlen to honor former players and administrators who played significant roles in the franchise's history.

The Denver Broncos Ring of Fame roster grew to 21 in 2007 when running back Terrell Davis (1995-2002) joined the Ring's distinguished membership. Before Davis' induction, the most recent additions came in 2005 when safety Steve Atwater (1989-98) was inducted and in 2003 when tackle Gary Zimmerman (1993-97) was enshrined.

In 2001, linebacker Karl Mecklenburg (1983-94) and safety Dennis Smith (1981-94) were named Broncos Ring of Famers. Quarterback John Elway (1983-98) was inducted into the Ring of Fame in 1999 in a ceremony held at halftime of the Broncos' season-opening Monday Night Football game vs. Miami on Sept. 13, 1999. As testament to the legend he established during his 16-year career, Elway is the only inductee for whom the customary five-year waiting period was waived.

Elway's induction was the first since 1993 when cornerback Louis Wright (1975-86) joined the Ring of Fame, a year after linebacker Tom Jackson (1973-86) entered the Ring in 1992.

Linebacker Randy Gradishar (1974-83) was the only 1989 inductee, following the 1988 inductions of quarterback Craig Morton (1977-82), wide receiver Haven Moses(1972-81) and kicker Jim Turner (1971-79).

Former defensive back Billy Thompson (1969-81) was honored in 1987, and three players joined the elite group in 1986: quarterbacks Frank Tripucka (1960-63) and Charley Johnson (1972-75), and defensive end Paul Smith (1968-78).

In 1985, former owner Gerald H. Phipps became the first non-player to have his name placed on the Ring.

The Ring of Fame was established in 1984 with an inaugural class of four members: running back Floyd Little (1967-75), defensive end Rich Jackson (1967-72), wide receiver Lionel Taylor (1960-66) and safety Austin "Goose" Gonsoulin (1960-66).

The Ring of Fame is displayed on the Level 5 facade of INVESCO Field at Mile High.

[Dean]

I guess over 1000 tackles, 8 pro bowls and 2 All Pro Teams doesn't mean shit around here.

Atwater's stats were great but let's look at Dennis Smith's. 1152 tackles (6 assists), 15 sacks, 17 fumble recoveries (1 TD), 30 interceptions, and 6 times in the pro-bowl with 4 times all-pro.

Do we retire two numbers?

The Broncos has had several great players and IMO anyone would be hard pressed to argue that. The problem is how many numbers can you retire?:confused:

[Northman]

They aren't safeties. Anyways, obviously we disagree. I would have thought the smilin assassin would have more support here. Apparently I'm wrong.

He has support as being a great and fun player to watch. But he doesnt really warrant retiring his number as there are a slew of guys who were equally as good or better than him.

[Northman]

As great a player as Atwater was, he just didn't have the impact on our franchise that Little or Elway did.

And thats really the bottom line here.

[Denver Native (Carol)]

I just did some research, and as of now, Washington has only retired 1 jersey number, and Dallas has retired none.

[TXBRONC]

I guess over 1000 tackles, 8 pro bowls and 2 All Pro Teams doesn't mean shit around here.

Come on Atwater. The guy was a great safety but I'm more interested in him getting into the Hall of Fame.

[NorCalBronco7]

Excellent post Overtime.

Besides Randy Gradishar, Atwater in my opinion is the most underrated Bronco in the last 30 years. 8 probowls, 2 SBs, 90 all-decade team. C'mon!

If any player from the 90's Broncos defense deserves to have there number retired, its Atwater. I have never understood why #27 is still available today, because there will never be a better #27 than Atwater. Its a flat out shame his number wont be in the ring of fire.

[Dean]

Since Atwater and TD have been mentioned in this thread, here is a what are they doing now article.

http://www.dallasnews.com/sharedcontent/dws/spt/columnists/rgosselin/stories/080810dnsponflgosselin.2595185.html

[Northman]

Since Atwater and TD have been mentioned in this thread, here is a what are they doing now article.

http://www.dallasnews.com/sharedcontent/dws/spt/columnists/rgosselin/stories/080810dnsponflgosselin.2595185.html


Pretty impressive. They really look up to Shanahan and rightfully so. I hope they succeed at the coaching level.

[Denver Native (Carol)]

Excellent post Overtime.

Besides Randy Gradishar, Atwater in my opinion is the most underrated Bronco in the last 30 years. 8 probowls, 2 SBs, 90 all-decade team. C'mon!

If any player from the 90's Broncos defense deserves to have there number retired, its Atwater. I have never understood why #27 is still available today, because there will never be a better #27 than Atwater. Its a flat out shame his number wont be in the ring of fire.

Not sure what you mean by ring of fire - if you mean the ring of fame at Invesco, it is there.

the most recent additions came in 2005 when safety Steve Atwater (1989-98) was inducted

[Italianmobstr7]

They aren't safeties. Anyways, obviously we disagree. I would have thought the smilin assassin would have more support here. Apparently I'm wrong.

Troy Polamalu... Ronnie Lott (He was the face of the 49ers D).

[BroncoWave]

Troy Polamalu... Ronnie Lott (He was the face of the 49ers D).

Ed Reed in recent years as well.

[atwater27]

Atwater's stats were great but let's look at Dennis Smith's. 1152 tackles (6 assists), 15 sacks, 17 fumble recoveries (1 TD), 30 interceptions, and 6 times in the pro-bowl with 4 times all-pro.

Do we retire two numbers?

The Broncos has had several great players and IMO anyone would be hard pressed to argue that. The problem is how many numbers can you retire?:confused:

27 and 49. Retire them today. There will never be 2 better safeties to play for this team.

[BroncoWave]

27 and 49. Retire them today. There will never be 2 better safeties to play for this team.

You have no way of knowing that. Odds are sometime in the next 100 or so years there will be someone come along who is a better safety than one or both of them. Are we going to retire his number too?

And if we are going to retire the best safety in team history's number, why not the best player at every other position? Why does safety get special treatment? Why not retire Elam, Sharpe, Smith, and Gradishar's numbers as well? Do you not see where this would become a slippery slope?

As great as Atwater was, there have been quite a few other broncos just as good at their respective positions. I just don't see why you can't be happy with him being in the ring of fame. That is still a great honor.

Elway and Little set the bar to have your number retired in Denver. And as great as Atwater was, he's just not in that category.

[atwater27]

You have no way of knowing that. Odds are sometime in the next 100 or so years there will be someone come along who is a better safety than one or both of them. Are we going to retire his number too?

And if we are going to retire the best safety in team history's number, why not the best player at every other position? Why does safety get special treatment? Why not retire Elam, Sharpe, Smith, and Gradishar's numbers as well? Do you not see where this would become a slippery slope?



No, because besides Gradishar, noone on that list approaches Atwater or Smith.

[HORSEPOWER 56]

Am I wrong in thinking that only 2 Broncos #s are retired (7-Elway, and 44-Little)?

With all this talk about retiring numbers, consider this: With all the years, rings, and HOFers produced by the great Cowboys and Raiders teams of the past, do you know how many #s those teams have retired?

ZERO. Not Staubach, Stabler, Dorsett, Long, Irvin, E Smith, Aikman, Belitnikoff, etc, etc, etc got their # retired.

I'd much rather see guys like Shannon Sharpe, TD, Rod Smith, and Steve Atwater get a legit shot at the HOF than to see the Broncos retire their number.

[dogfish]

why isn't tom nalen's number retired?

15 years, all in denver-- started 12 consecutive seasons, playing all 16 games in ten of those. . . he blocked for 6 different 1,000-yard rushers, including a 2,000-yard rusher and league MVP, and helped the broncos win two super bowls. . .

and you guys are on crack if you think his performance wasn't absolutely crucial to our first super bowl win-- go back and watch him kick gilbert "gravedigger" brown's ass up and down the field, and come tell me TD and atty were the only heroes. . . .


:welcome:

[TXBRONC]

Am I wrong in thinking that only 2 Broncos #s are retired (7-Elway, and 44-Little)?

With all this talk about retiring numbers, consider this: With all the years, rings, and HOFers produced by the great Cowboys and Raiders teams of the past, do you know how many #s those teams have retired?

ZERO. Not Staubach, Stabler, Dorsett, Long, Irvin, E Smith, Aikman, Belitnikoff, etc, etc, etc got their # retired.

I'd much rather see guys like Shannon Sharpe, TD, Rod Smith, and Steve Atwater get a legit shot at the HOF than to see the Broncos retire their number.

Frank Tripucka's number 18 is also retired.

HP I think you might have Biletnikoff associated with wrong team.

[Northman]

Am I wrong in thinking that only 2 Broncos #s are retired (7-Elway, and 44-Little)?

With all this talk about retiring numbers, consider this: With all the years, rings, and HOFers produced by the great Cowboys and Raiders teams of the past, do you know how many #s those teams have retired?

ZERO. Not Staubach, Stabler, Dorsett, Long, Irvin, E Smith, Aikman, Belitnikoff, etc, etc, etc got their # retired.

I'd much rather see guys like Shannon Sharpe, TD, Rod Smith, and Steve Atwater get a legit shot at the HOF than to see the Broncos retire their number.

Denver currently has 3 retired numbers although i cannot remember the last guy. I think his name starts with a T. Tripuka or something like that?

[Northman]

Frank Tripucka's number 18 is also retired.

HP I think you might have Biletnikoff associated with wrong team.

thats it.