McDaniels forced to mix it up with 3-4 /4-3 defense; due to personnel

[Jagsbch]

Well...I certainly hope we don't dink around with two systems like we did at the end with Shanahan. It is too much.

I hope they pick something and stick to it.


Thing is when ever you run a 3-4 you absolutely have to have the right personnel for it, otherwise you will get raped.

Teams who are in transition to a 3-4 need to entertain the notion of maintaining some of their 4-3 antics until the personnel is in place for the 3-4 to be at its optimal form.

So if you see McDaniels running a 4-3 it just means that he needs to make up for not having an every down NT. That is the first impression the other could be missing your prime sacking LB.

You have to revolve the scheme around your personnel. McDaniels is doing just that, I expect to see other formations from this defense as well, such as a 3-3-5 for example.

I think this defense could find itself more often than not ratating in squads to keep oopnents guessing as to what it is going to be up against on any given play.


Too many players are outcast in the 4-3. Especially our new guys who have always played in a 3-4.

The only reason we would be switching would be to generate a better better pass rush with our players. That would be alright in limited packages, which I expect McDaniels to do. Even if we do some 4-3, Im fairly sure it will only be for specific situations.




you do not need to rely totally on the OLB to rush the QB the best teams bring it from everyone, every where..

the key to the great 3-4 is never let them know who is coming on each play.

the confusion it brings screws up the OLINE protection..


lockerpulse (http://www.lockerpulse.com/NFL/Broncos/)

McDaniels On whether the defense might switch to a 4-3 alignment

“We’ve practiced in the 4-3 already multiple days in camp. Like I said, there’s no way we’re going to replace him in terms of his production as just a single pass rusher. I don’t think that’s fair to anybody but the way we’re going to go about trying to replace him as a player who is on the field a lot. (It) may take a few different people and may take some creativity for us.

I don’t think there is any silver lining in the injury itself. I think, are those players maybe further ahead because they got the reps? Probably. I think both players have started camp really well, I’ll say that.

I think we have got a long way to go. We have a lot of football to play, I think we have a lot of young players on our team at that position who are all trying to improve and like I said, we’ve got some defensive linemen that we’ve already put out there at end and played some 4-3.

We’ve got some other flexibility built into our team so we’ll kind of take inventory of exactly where we’re at and what we need to do and what we think is best.”


It’s possible that we could play, I would say, play some of it. I don’t know if we would go all the way back – we’re not going to change the style of defense that we have – there might just be a bigger body on the edge sometimes.

Like I said, there are multiple ways to look at this: Jarvis (Moss) is certainly a guy who has gotten a lot of reps with that group already in camp and is going to continue to.

We’ve played with four down linemen in the game or in practice so far and again, Mario Haggan always gives you that flexibility because he played there (at outside linebacker/defensive end) all of last year and he had a great year.

We’ll kind of figure out exactly our course of action here and decide on the best thing for the team but we’ll have to wait and see until we gather all that information.”

On what Dumervil brought to the defense

“He’s definitely a guy that we’re going to miss. You can’t replace him with one person, whether I come out and get 20 sacks, it’s not going to matter because my 20 sacks would be even more with him.

You’re never going to replace a guy that you lose and we’re just going to try to get team defense and guys are going to step up and that’s just how we’re going to have to go about things. We’re going to have to keep working and keep trucking.”

[DenBronx]

1 guy gets hurt and we abandon the 3-4? amazing. :coffee:

[broncobryce]

lockerpulse (http://www.lockerpulse.com/NFL/Broncos/)

McDaniels On whether the defense might switch to a 4-3 alignment

“We’ve practiced in the 4-3 already multiple days in camp. Like I said, there’s no way we’re going to replace him in terms of his production as just a single pass rusher. I don’t think that’s fair to anybody but the way we’re going to go about trying to replace him as a player who is on the field a lot. (It) may take a few different people and may take some creativity for us.

I don’t think there is any silver lining in the injury itself. I think, are those players maybe further ahead because they got the reps? Probably. I think both players have started camp really well, I’ll say that.

I think we have got a long way to go. We have a lot of football to play, I think we have a lot of young players on our team at that position who are all trying to improve and like I said, we’ve got some defensive linemen that we’ve already put out there at end and played some 4-3.

We’ve got some other flexibility built into our team so we’ll kind of take inventory of exactly where we’re at and what we need to do and what we think is best.”


It’s possible that we could play, I would say, play some of it. I don’t know if we would go all the way back – we’re not going to change the style of defense that we have – there might just be a bigger body on the edge sometimes.

Like I said, there are multiple ways to look at this: Jarvis (Moss) is certainly a guy who has gotten a lot of reps with that group already in camp and is going to continue to.

We’ve played with four down linemen in the game or in practice so far and again, Mario Haggan always gives you that flexibility because he played there (at outside linebacker/defensive end) all of last year and he had a great year.

We’ll kind of figure out exactly our course of action here and decide on the best thing for the team but we’ll have to wait and see until we gather all that information.”

On what Dumervil brought to the defense

“He’s definitely a guy that we’re going to miss. You can’t replace him with one person, whether I come out and get 20 sacks, it’s not going to matter because my 20 sacks would be even more with him.

You’re never going to replace a guy that you lose and we’re just going to try to get team defense and guys are going to step up and that’s just how we’re going to have to go about things. We’re going to have to keep working and keep trucking.”

How does this tell you we are abandoning the 3-4?

[Lonestar]

Where did you read that?
Mobile Post via Mobile.BroncosForums.com/forums

[Jagsbch]

lockerpulse (http://www.lockerpulse.com/NFL/Broncos/)


1 guy gets hurt and we abandon the 3-4? amazing. :coffee:

Broncos NT can only play 15-20 reps.

The NT is the premier player in the 3-4, now with Elvis out the 4-3 option becomes even more appearant.

Every time I heard McDaniels say 4-3, you want to know what I was actually hearing?

Him calling Aaron Schobel‎ who prefers to play in a 4-3

[dogfish]

lockerpulse (http://www.lockerpulse.com/NFL/Broncos/)

McDaniels On whether the defense might switch to a 4-3 alignment

“We’ve practiced in the 4-3 already multiple days in camp. Like I said, there’s no way we’re going to replace him in terms of his production as just a single pass rusher. I don’t think that’s fair to anybody but the way we’re going to go about trying to replace him as a player who is on the field a lot. (It) may take a few different people and may take some creativity for us.

I don’t think there is any silver lining in the injury itself. I think, are those players maybe further ahead because they got the reps? Probably. I think both players have started camp really well, I’ll say that.

I think we have got a long way to go. We have a lot of football to play, I think we have a lot of young players on our team at that position who are all trying to improve and like I said, we’ve got some defensive linemen that we’ve already put out there at end and played some 4-3.

We’ve got some other flexibility built into our team so we’ll kind of take inventory of exactly where we’re at and what we need to do and what we think is best.”


It’s possible that we could play, I would say, play some of it. I don’t know if we would go all the way back – we’re not going to change the style of defense that we have – there might just be a bigger body on the edge sometimes.

Like I said, there are multiple ways to look at this: Jarvis (Moss) is certainly a guy who has gotten a lot of reps with that group already in camp and is going to continue to.

We’ve played with four down linemen in the game or in practice so far and again, Mario Haggan always gives you that flexibility because he played there (at outside linebacker/defensive end) all of last year and he had a great year.

We’ll kind of figure out exactly our course of action here and decide on the best thing for the team but we’ll have to wait and see until we gather all that information.”

On what Dumervil brought to the defense

“He’s definitely a guy that we’re going to miss. You can’t replace him with one person, whether I come out and get 20 sacks, it’s not going to matter because my 20 sacks would be even more with him.

You’re never going to replace a guy that you lose and we’re just going to try to get team defense and guys are going to step up and that’s just how we’re going to have to go about things. We’re going to have to keep working and keep trucking.”


1 guy gets hurt and we abandon the 3-4? amazing. :coffee:

he didn't say anything about abandoning the 3-4, just mixing some 4-3 looks in-- which we should have been looking to do even if doom didn't get hurt. . .

one of the main reasons belly's old new england defenses were able to give people fits was their versatility-- and it was the exact same thing with rex ryan's baltimore defenses. . . shifting fronts, moving guys around to find mismatches, multiple looks to deal with different offenses, etc. . . man, that stuff is where it's at! mc D is flat out right-- we DON'T have anybody who can replace doom's pass rush single-handedly, we are going to have to get creative to find ways to generate pressure with the guys we have. . .

mixing in a little 4-3 would allow us to get some different personnel on the field also-- take advantage of a few different skill sets while getting a couple starters a breather for a few plays, and make our blitz packages tougher to prepare for. . .

ayers was a down lineman in college, and being able to just put his hand in the dirt and rush the passer a little more might help spark him. . . might give us a chance to let marcus thomas play a little three-technique also. . .

[Jagsbch]

Woody video on Elvis: Where do the Broncos go now? (http://blogs.denverpost.com/broncos/2010/08/05/woody-on-elvis-where-do-the-broncos-go-now/4290/?utm_source=feedburner&utm_medium=feed&utm_campaign=Feed%3A+dp-blogs-broncos+%28Denver+Post%3A+Sports%3A+Broncos%3A+Blo g%29)

Woody also discusses the 3-4/4-3

[claymore]

The silver lining is it happened at the begining of camp. Best of the castoffs are still out there and plenty of time for wink to get crative. Our season wasnt hinged on Doom alone. ALOT of stuff has to go right for us to be competitive.

[DenBronx]

meh: someone wake me up when doom is healed.


I had just bet the whole ranch with one of my raider friends that we would have the better record.

God please fix this.

[LTC Pain]

he didn't say anything about abandoning the 3-4, just mixing some 4-3 looks in-- which we should have been looking to do even if doom didn't get hurt. . .

one of the main reasons belly's old new england defenses were able to give people fits was their versatility-- and it was the exact same thing with rex ryan's baltimore defenses. . . shifting fronts, moving guys around to find mismatches, multiple looks to deal with different offenses, etc. . . man, that stuff is where it's at! mc D is flat out right-- we DON'T have anybody who can replace doom's pass rush single-handedly, we are going to have to get creative to find ways to generate pressure with the guys we have. . .

mixing in a little 4-3 would allow us to get some different personnel on the field also-- take advantage of a few different skill sets while getting a couple starters a breather for a few plays, and make our blitz packages tougher to prepare for. . .

ayers was a down lineman in college, and being able to just put his hand in the dirt and rush the passer a little more might help spark him. . . might give us a chance to let marcus thomas play a little three-technique also. . .

Exactly, so how is McDaniels being "forced" to change defensive schemes??? Very misleading thread title.

[elsid13]

This team isn't moving away from 3/4. Losing Doom was blow, but there is no reason to change the system because lost of ONE player.

[rationalfan]

if i remember right, the team played a little 4-3 last year too. and some 5-2. and probably a smidge of the 8-3. it's mcd's wishes, he likes a defense that adapts to the situation in scheme and form.

this isn't a sky is falling moment for the team. one player was hurt. it happens. there will still be pressure on the quarterback. the only difference is now it will be manufactured through scheme. not idea, but reality.

i still the defense better than i did three years ago. while you could argue shanny applied similar strategies, the team's personnel is now beefier, wiser and not playing with inept safeties.

[Denver Native (Carol)]

http://www.denverbroncos.com/news-and-blogs/article-1/Sacking-Negativity/47fc2dd2-0676-475b-a0e1-d431675c8a1c

McDaniels said the team could use four down linemen and three linebackers at times, though he doesn’t anticipate a complete switch from the 3-4 scheme instituted last season.

[jhildebrand]

I keep saying it. GET LaMar Woodley. The Steelers already admitted publicly they wont keep him. The guy is a beast and wants to get paid. He can play in and out. It is worth a two year deal and a bit of cash to keep the 3-4. Furthermore, he is young and could pay huge dividends.

Injuries like this don't HAVE to ruin a team. It isn't what happens to you, it is what you DO about it.

[broncobryce]

I keep saying it. GET LaMar Woodley. The Steelers already admitted publicly they wont keep him. The guy is a beast and wants to get paid. He can play in and out. It is worth a two year deal and a bit of cash to keep the 3-4. Furthermore, he is young and could pay huge dividends.

Injuries like this don't HAVE to ruin a team. It isn't what happens to you, it is what you DO about it.

We aren't paying him. We just tied up a bunch of $$ in an pass rushing outside linebacker. Sound familiar?

[jhildebrand]

We aren't paying him. We just tied up a bunch of $$ in an pass rushing outside linebacker. Sound familiar?

Well...paying him wont be a problem or a necessity. Afterall, you could trade a pick to Pitt, that way they get something. Tell Woodley to play out his contract and address it at season's end.

The guy is scheduled to make $550,000 this season. That's peanuts. Bumping him up to $2-3 million for this season and a second is worth it to keep the 3-4.

[TXBRONC]

Exactly, so how is McDaniels being "forced" to change defensive schemes??? Very misleading thread title.

Exactly we used the 4-3 defense a lot last season. IIRC we did it quite a bit on 3rd downs.

[Lonestar]

We are not scrapping the 3-4 they have been practicing a version of the 4-3 all TC. Just to keep the option open and to force OC's to worry about both.

Many times last year we played 5-2-4.

Worry about the sky falling when you see huge blue chunks of it on the ground..
Mobile Post via Mobile.BroncosForums.com/forums

[silkamilkamonico]

I'm being real here...

Our offense better be lights out, or there's a very good chance we could be starting the 2010 seasoon right where we ended off the 2009 season.

[dogfish]

I'm being real here...

Our offense better be lights out, or there's a very good chance we could be starting the 2010 seasoon right where we ended off the 2009 season.

i'll be real also-- our offense has approximately as much chance of being "lights out" as i have of being the next denver broncos head coach. . .

ain't happenin'. . . certainly not right out of the gate, not even if we do get clady and moreno back in time to start the season. . . not with two rookie interior OLs, a stone-foot quarterback and the group of receivers we're likely to start the season with. . . plenty of potential in that group, but at this point the second-greatest show on turf they're not. . .

[silkamilkamonico]

In that case....bring on 2012!!

[Jagsbch]

Exactly, so how is McDaniels being "forced" to change defensive schemes??? Very misleading thread title.

It is not misleading at all, you want to go with a 3-4 if you had the personnel to execute it for an entire game. Patriots don't and neither do the Broncos.

A perfect example to what happens when you do not switch to a 4-3 when your personnel is not up to par, is what happens to the Steelers defense time and time again. One minute they rock and the next, everyone is writing them off. It is hit or miss depending on your personnel, Belichick gets it, and so does McDaniels.

The 3-4 while being the most dynamic defense in the league, will be the first to expose your weaknesses as well. The 3-4 base is like a high octane machine, it has to run on all cylinders it is not as forgiving as a 4-3 that will allow you to get away with personnel issues on offense.

So the thread title is not misleading whatsoever.

[Jagsbch]

if i remember right, the team played a little 4-3 last year too. and some 5-2. and probably a smidge of the 8-3. it's mcd's wishes, he likes a defense that adapts to the situation in scheme and form.

this isn't a sky is falling moment for the team. one player was hurt. it happens. there will still be pressure on the quarterback. the only difference is now it will be manufactured through scheme. not idea, but reality.

i still the defense better than i did three years ago. while you could argue shanny applied similar strategies, the team's personnel is now beefier, wiser and not playing with inept safeties.

The team switched from the 4-3 to the 3-4 so yes they did play a 4-3 base.

I expect to see nothing less that McDaniels bringing the house as far as all the various packages we will see. Thing that I fear will hurt this offense the most is when Peyton goes no huddle.

McDaniels will need to practice interchanging the squads for various defensive bases on the fly. Because if Peyton has success with the no huddle, you can bet other teams will try and get the NT for example winded because of not having the time to spell him when running the no huddle.

In the end the NT situation being so limited as far as reps go, force McDaniels hand, and losing Elvis, just added to the pressure McDaniels was in to insure that his 3-4 defense be not exposed due to personnel issues.

[Jagsbch]

I keep saying it. GET LaMar Woodley. The Steelers already admitted publicly they wont keep him. The guy is a beast and wants to get paid. He can play in and out. It is worth a two year deal and a bit of cash to keep the 3-4. Furthermore, he is young and could pay huge dividends.

Injuries like this don't HAVE to ruin a team. It isn't what happens to you, it is what you DO about it.

After seeing how much Elvis got, money is not an object, especially when you consider how you are not being forced to tie up a lot of money at the QB position. This free's up the capital a bit to be able to pay players.

You can hang it up on Woodley no way in hell the Steelers let a guy go who had over 13 sacks last season. No way in hell.

But it does not mean the Broncos arenot in the market to pay a big time Free Agent such as Aaron Schobel‎.

Steelers LB LaMarr Woodley On Contract Talks

"I guess that means we're not going to do [a] deal this year," he said. "Maybe something will come at the end of the season."

KDKA's Bob Pompeani: "So you're okay with that?"

Woodley: "Ain't nothing I can do about it. Like I've been saying, ain't no use of getting mad over things you can't control. You know, all I can do is get out here and continue to play football, go out here and help this team win a championship."

Pompeani: "So that means next year, you go in and you could be free to do whatever you want to do, so what would be the odds of you coming back here?"

Woodley: "I don't know. I guess I have to leave that up to the Steelers. If they allow me to get into that situation, you know, pretty much the ball is in their court. You know, everything is on them."

Pompeani: "But you want to be back if all things are equal?"

Woodley: "Definitely, definitely, c'mon. I love playing for this team – defense, fans [are] good, tradition – I mean wherever I play football, I like to stay. I don't like to move around that much."

Pompeani: "But in any event you have a lot to play for. If you have a good year, your market value is going to skyrocket."

kdka.com/sports (http://kdka.com/sports/LaMarr.Woodley.contract.2.1839286.html)

[SOCALORADO.]

Well...paying him wont be a problem or a necessity. Afterall, you could trade a pick to Pitt, that way they get something. Tell Woodley to play out his contract and address it at season's end.

The guy is scheduled to make $550,000 this season. That's peanuts. Bumping him up to $2-3 million for this season and a second is worth it to keep the 3-4.

If DEN could get Woodley for a 2nd, i would crap my pants!
But we all know that aint happening. Hes had 25 sacks in 2 seasons.
The dude is a top 5 3-4 OLB in the NFL. To get him, DEN has to give up
next years 1st. And PITT is just doin what SD and NE and other smart teams are doing.
Making their rookies and top players play out their contracts cause the CBA is a
unknown situation right now. Maybe for a couple picks. A 2nd and a 3rd. Maaaaaaybe.

[jhildebrand]

If DEN could get Woodley for a 2nd, i would crap my pants!
But we all know that aint happening. Hes had 25 sacks in 2 seasons.
The dude is a top 5 3-4 OLB in the NFL. To get him, DEN has to give up
next years 1st. And PITT is just doin what SD and NE and other smart teams are doing.
Making their rookies and top players play out their contracts cause the CBA is a
unknown situation right now. Maybe for a couple picks. A 2nd and a 3rd. Maaaaaaybe.

I'll look for the article again but IIRC it said the Steelers had no intention to re-do his deal at any point.

Any way, you can always cause havoc within the conference and make the attempt.

Whomever mentioned Schobel...he is leaving Buffalo because he doesn't want to be in a 3-4

[SOCALORADO.]

I'll look for the article again but IIRC it said the Steelers had no intention to re-do his deal at any point.

Any way, you can always cause havoc within the conference and make the attempt.

Whomever mentioned Schobel...he is leaving Buffalo because he doesn't want to be in a 3-4

No they dont want to redo his deal. And its PIT. They say they will make Woodley play out his rookie contract, and then he will get paid.
Thats it. Again, this is how PIT usually does buisness.
Thats how smart owners and GMs are doing buisness during the difficult CBA situation right now.

Chargers GM AJ Smith said Friday that the team has shut down contract negotiations with unsigned restricted free agents Marcus McNeill, Vincent Jackson,...

And even NE was having a bit of a tussle with their HOF QB over a new contrct....

Teams are not signing their players to huge, new deals (especially rookies who are STILL under contract,) right now, and its because they know theres a huge unknown out there right now.

I am sure NE will get the deal done, but thats a HOF QB.

[LTC Pain]

It is not misleading at all, you want to go with a 3-4 if you had the personnel to execute it for an entire game. Patriots don't and neither do the Broncos.

A perfect example to what happens when you do not switch to a 4-3 when your personnel is not up to par, is what happens to the Steelers defense time and time again. One minute they rock and the next, everyone is writing them off. It is hit or miss depending on your personnel, Belichick gets it, and so does McDaniels.

The 3-4 while being the most dynamic defense in the league, will be the first to expose your weaknesses as well. The 3-4 base is like a high octane machine, it has to run on all cylinders it is not as forgiving as a 4-3 that will allow you to get away with personnel issues on offense.

So the thread title is not misleading whatsoever.

McDaniels said last night that the team was already working in some 4-3 sets on defense. He added that they were not switching to a 4-3 just because of the injury to Doom and would continue with the 3-4. You drew a conclusion that is not accurate and put it in the thread title. McDaniels and the Broncos defense are not being "forced" to do anything depsite your opinion on the matter.

[Tempus Fugit]

It is not misleading at all, you want to go with a 3-4 if you had the personnel to execute it for an entire game. Patriots don't and neither do the Broncos.

A perfect example to what happens when you do not switch to a 4-3 when your personnel is not up to par, is what happens to the Steelers defense time and time again. One minute they rock and the next, everyone is writing them off. It is hit or miss depending on your personnel, Belichick gets it, and so does McDaniels.

The 3-4 while being the most dynamic defense in the league, will be the first to expose your weaknesses as well. The 3-4 base is like a high octane machine, it has to run on all cylinders it is not as forgiving as a 4-3 that will allow you to get away with personnel issues on offense.

So the thread title is not misleading whatsoever.

New England has run 4 man fronts throughout Belichick's tenure, even when the team was stacked at linebacker, so I don't really know what you're trying to say here. Belichick likes his defenses to give multiple looks. You may recall some times where he's fielded a defensive lineup without a single DL for some plays.

As for what happens with the Steelers defense, again, I don't know what you're trying to say. That team has had a top defense since Polamalu became the starter. Here are the Steelers defensive scoring ranks since that happened:

1
3
11
2
1
12

[Jagsbch]

I never said it was a switch.

Slow down your roll there a little.

When your nose tackle is slated to be out half of any given game due to being limited to 15-20 reps per game, well that forces your hand hnow doesn't it with the other half of the game to come up with a solution to your NT being on the bench.

This is the primary reason Josh has already been working on the 4-3, especially considering that the NT was not participating in Training Camp up until yesterday that is.

So you see my thread title is accurate. McDaniels is forced to mix it up because of his personnel woes on defense. Elvis just adds an exclamation to McDaniels woes considering he is now missing 3/4's of his 1-2 3-4 punch in any given game.

Any questions?

[Tempus Fugit]

When your nose tackle is slated to be out half of any given game due to being limited to 15-20 reps per game, well that forces your hand hnow doesn't it with the other half of the game to come up with a solution to your NT being on the bench.

Wilfork only played about 60% of the Patriots defensive snaps last season, and he's the best NT in the game.

[elsid13]

Wilfork only played about 60% of the Patriots defensive snaps last season, and he's the best NT in the game.

He also 6 years younger and isn't coming back two major injuries is past couple of seasons.

[Tempus Fugit]

He also 6 years younger and isn't coming back two major injuries is past couple of seasons.

Ok, but if the Broncos are looking at their NT playing 50% of the snaps, and Wilfork is only running 60% of them as is, I'm not seeing any issue about 3-4/4-3. The snaps breakdown will include a lot of nickel and dime packages, after all.

[Jagsbch]

As for what happens with the Steelers defense, again, I don't know what you're trying to say. That team has had a top defense since Polamalu became the starter. Here are the Steelers defensive scoring ranks since that happened:
1
3
11
2
1
12

What does over all defense matter in a pass happy league?

Steelers passing defense ranked 16th last season. Raiders threw for over 300 yards on them.

2009 No. 16
2008 No. 1
2007 No. 3
2006 No. 20
2005 No. 16
2004 No. 4

Now did you notice the extreme variance reflected in attempting to run a 3-4 without the proper personnel?

This is why Bill Belichick the preeminent defensive mind in football; knows when it is optimal to run the 3-4 and when to shift gears back down to the 4-3.

The 3-4 is like an overdrive gear on defense, if you are not up to speed personnel wise the 3-4 can bog you down and the Steelers defense has proven this to be the case time and time again.

One minute the Steelers are running at with the lead pack, and bam instantly the next season they are running with the back of the pack.

Having five Pro Bowlers in your front seven can help disguise your personell woes, but when you bring a magnifying glass to it, you can see the fractures in the defense as if they were red carpets rolled out to lead your team to victory.

The Raiders saw it when they beat the Steelers last last season in week 13. The Packers noticed it in week 15 when Aaron Rogers threw for 3 TD's and 383 yards against them.

Ben in his last 3 games had over 1000 yards combined 7 Td's and only 1 int. There is a reason why the No. 1 team last season in power rankings have fallen to obscurity this season with most folk, and that reason is the defense.

Any questions?

[elsid13]

Ok, but if the Broncos are looking at their NT playing 50% of the snaps, and Wilfork is only running 60% of them as is, I'm not seeing any issue about 3-4/4-3. The snaps breakdown will include a lot of nickel and dime packages, after all.

The defense from play book to the personal is designed for the team to run a 3/4. To switch 4/3 would not make sense. Losing Doom was blow, but is not the end of the world. Denver needs to pick a system a stick to it. Add into the fact there is only one true UT on this team (Thomas) would cause major problems trying to fit the rest of the line to 4 man front.

[Tempus Fugit]

What does over all defense matter in a pass happy league?

Steelers passing defense ranked 16th last season. Raiders threw for over 300 yards on them.

2009 No. 16
2008 No. 1
2007 No. 3
2006 No. 20
2005 No. 16
2004 No. 4

Now did you notice the extreme variance reflected in attempting to run a 3-4 without the proper personnel?

This is why Bill Belichick the preeminent defensive mind in football; knows when it is optimal to run the 3-4 and when to shift gears back down to the 4-3.

The 3-4 is like an overdrive gear on defense, if you are not up to speed personnel wise the 3-4 can bog you down and the Steelers defense has proven this to be the case time and time again.

One minute the Steelers are running at with the lead pack, and bam instantly the next season they are running with the back of the pack.

Having five Pro Bowlers in your front seven can help disguise your personell woes, but when you bring a magnifying glass to it, you can see the fractures in the defense as if they were red carpets rolled out to lead your team to victory.

The Raiders saw it when they beat the Steelers last last season in week 13. The Packers noticed it in week 15 when Aaron Rogers threw for 3 TD's and 383 yards against them.

Ben in his last 3 games had over 1000 yards combined 7 Td's and only 1 int. There is a reason why the No. 1 team last season in power rankings have fallen to obscurity this season with most folk, and that reason is the defense.

Any questions?

1.) Points are what matters with defense.

2.) In 2006 and 2009, Polamalu missed games and Clark missed games. In other words, the problem was at safety, which would be a problem regardless of the front 7 personnel being in 3-4 or 4-3. Last year was an obvious example.

Since points didn't seem to impress you for some bizarre reason, here's the breakdown for total yards since Polamalu has been the starter:

1
4
9
1
1
5

Notice the worst years are 2006 and 2009... AGAIN, seasons when Polamalu was injured, and both still in the top 10.

[Jagsbch]

where did I say it had anything to do with the front 7. My point was that the Steelers front 7 help disguise the problems in their secondary.

Passing defenses rule in this league, if your defense can't stop the passing game, then you have severe issues in this pass happy league. The Raiders beat the Steelers last season enough said.

Running away from the point of why the Steelers did not make the play-offs last season is not doing any justice to this discussion.

Steelers had personnel issues and those issues exposed the 3-4 Defense to a pass happy league that managed to capitalize on it to the point of keeping the former Super Bowl champs ourt of the playoffs last season.

Get a clue and stop beating around the bush.

[slim]

where did I say it had anything to do with the front 7. My point was that the Steelers front 7 help disguise the problems in their secondary.

Passing defenses rule in this league, if your defense can't stop the passing game, then you have severe issues in this pass happy league. The Raiders beat the Steelers last season enough said.

Running away from the point of why the Steelers did not make the play-offs last season is not doing any justice to this discussion.

Steelers had personnel issues and those issues exposed the 3-4 Defense to a pass happy league that managed to capitalize on it to the point of keeping the former Super Bowl champs ourt of the playoffs last season.

Get a clue and stop beating around the bush.

Good post!

I like the way you increased the font size in order to stress a point.

[elsid13]

Good post!

I like the way you increased the font size in order to stress a point.

Somewhere an Ewok is smiling.

[Tempus Fugit]

where did I say it had anything to do with the front 7. My point was that the Steelers front 7 help disguise the problems in their secondary.

Passing defenses rule in this league, if your defense can't stop the passing game, then you have severe issues in this pass happy league. The Raiders beat the Steelers last season enough said.

Running away from the point of why the Steelers did not make the play-offs last season is not doing any justice to this discussion.

Steelers had personnel issues and those issues exposed the 3-4 Defense to a pass happy league that managed to capitalize on it to the point of keeping the former Super Bowl champs ourt of the playoffs last season.

Get a clue and stop beating around the bush.

The 4 starting linebackers missed a grand total of 3 games in 2006, the NT missed only one game and neither DE missed a game.

The 4 starting linebackers missed a grand total of 2 games in 2009, the NT didn't miss a game, and the DEs missed a combined 5 games.

In other words, Personnel in the front 7 has not been the problem in the two worst seasons the Steelers have had defensively since Polamalu became the starter.

This is going to remain true even if you go to a big font in reply again.

[Jagsbch]

The 4 starting linebackers missed a grand total of 3 games in 2006, the NT missed only one game and neither DE missed a game.

The 4 starting linebackers missed a grand total of 2 games in 2009, the NT didn't miss a game, and the DEs missed a combined 5 games.

In other words, Personnel in the front 7 has not been the problem in the two worst seasons the Steelers have had defensively since Polamalu became the starter.

This is going to remain true even if you go to a big font in reply again.

I never said the front 7 was the problem. DOH talk about fail central

[Jagsbch]

Now regarding the Steelers scoring defense last season, it is easy to look good scoring defense wise when over half of your games are against the 25th ranked scoring offenses in the league on average last season.

[SOCALORADO.]

Somewhere an Ewok is smiling.

The name Lex always comes to mind with specific posts, yes?

[Tempus Fugit]

I never said the front 7 was the problem. DOH talk about fail central

Given that "personnel" in the back 4 are generally unaffected by any 4-3/3-4 difference, since the defensive backfield will be running a 4 man package of some kind no matter what is in front of them when in a base defense, you now saying the front 7 is not the problem is indeed fail central.... for you. There's a reason I was pointing out the problems at safety in 2006 and 2009, after all.

You should re-think your position on this matter. And larger font isn't really what I'm getting at here.

[Jagsbch]

The 3-4 defense is so successful because you never know where the pressure is coming from.

But when the pressure is relieved on the opponents QB due to the fact that the folks who are responsible for applying it, are having to shore up the holes in the secondary due to personnel issues there, well this alone ought to have you rethinking your position on the matter.

The pressure of a 4-3 defense is constant, regardless of the secondary woes the team applying the pressure could be experiencing. A good 4-3 can in fact make your secondary woes seem insignificant, where as a 3-4 can be crippled by it.

Any questions?

[Tempus Fugit]

The 3-4 defense is so successful because you never know where the pressure is coming from.

But when the pressure is relieved on the opponents QB due to the fact that the folks who are responsible for applying it, are having to shore up the holes in the secondary due to personnel issues there, well this alone ought to have you rethinking your position on the matter.

The pressure of a 4-3 defense is constant, regardless of the secondary woes the team applying the pressure could be experiencing. A good 4-3 can in fact make your secondary woes seem insignificant, where as a 3-4 can be crippled by it.

Any questions?

Yes. Will you continue to get this wrong, or will you start to admit that your point was in error? As I demonstrated, there were no significant personnel issues in the front 7 during the 2 "down" seasons for the Steelers. Back 4 issues raise the same issues whether the front 7 is running a 3-4 or a 4-3.

Any questions?

[Jagsbch]

Yes. Will you continue to get this wrong, or will you start to admit that your point was in error? As I demonstrated, there were no significant personnel issues in the front 7 during the 2 "down" seasons for the Steelers. Back 4 issues raise the same issues whether the front 7 is running a 3-4 or a 4-3.

Any questions?

If you refuse to acknowledge the nuances of how the front 7 of the 3-4 and 4-3 are impacted by holes needing to be shored up in the secondary, then your obstanence in this case will hinder your understanding of the fundamentals of the game.

In a 4-3 you have 4 down lineman with one responsibilty generally and that is to apply pressure on the QB.

In a 3-4 the 4 linebackers not only have the responsibility for applying pressure on the QB, but they have the responsiblity to make sure the pass coverage remains shored up as well.

This two fold responsibility can be exploited by a good passing offense. Especially when the 4 LB's can't trust the secondary to hold their own. Now not only do you have a secondary that needs to be shored up, but you are doing it with LB's mostly. Big slow LB's at that...

Trust is so vital in the 3-4, if your LB's lack it in the secondary it will have a severe impact in their ability to apply the pressure the QB against a good passing offense, no matter how many Pro Bowlers you have on your front 7.

[Tempus Fugit]

If you refuse to acknowledge the nuances of how the front 7 of the 3-4 and 4-3 are impacted by holes needing to be shored up in the secondary, then your obstanence in this case will hinder your understanding of the fundamentals of the game.

In a 4-3 you have 4 down lineman with one responsibilty generally and that is to apply pressure on the QB.

In a 3-4 the 4 linebackers not only have the responsibility for applying pressure on the QB, but they have the responsiblity to make sure the pass coverage remains shored up as well.

This two fold responsibility can be exploited by a good passing offense. Especially when the 4 LB's can't trust the secondary to hold their own. Now not only do you have a secondary that needs to be shored up, but you are doing it with LB's mostly. Big slow LB's at that...

Trust is so vital in the 3-4, if your LB's lack it in the secondary it will have a severe impact in their ability to apply the pressure the QB against a good passing offense, no matter how many Pro Bowlers you have on your front 7.

You've clowned yourself:


So if you see McDaniels running a 4-3 it just means that he needs to make up for not having an every down NT. That is the first impression the other could be missing your prime sacking LB.

I'd continue with this, but your transition from basing your argument on the NT/OLB issues to now trying to argue the very point I was making (secondary) and pretending it applies to your point, makes it a waste of time.

[TimTebow15MVP]

uhhh we ran some 4-3 last year and even practices it last year.....The defense from day one he said was a 3-4 hybrid, 3-4 is the base defense. but we mix it up.

[LTC Pain]

uhhh we ran some 4-3 last year and even practices it last year.....The defense from day one he said was a 3-4 hybrid, 3-4 is the base defense. but we mix it up.

Exactly. An unlike jabgbag opines in the thread title, Doom's injury doesn't force McDaniels to do squat.

[Jagsbch]

You've clowned yourself:



I'd continue with this, but your transition from basing your argument on the NT/OLB issues to now trying to argue the very point I was making (secondary) and pretending it applies to your point, makes it a waste of time.

Look in the case of the Steelers it was their secondary that acted as a handicap to their 3-4 defense.

McDaniels initial reason for mixing it up with the 3-4 may have initially been the result of Jamal being out for 40 to 50 percent of the game, but now he has a few other factors thrown into the equation to contend with.

In the case of the Broncos, not having 3/4's of your 3-4 one two punch half the game is what could cripple the 3-4 to the point of forcing McDaniels hand to over emphasise the point of the 4-3 yesterday.

Another reason he may have over emphasized the the 4-3 was because Aaron Schobel is on the market. Aaron is actually entertaining playing this season.

“The Texans would be the first choice,” Schobel said. “I could keep my family here. I’m from here.

“At this point, I have interest in them (Texans) and I have interest in still playing,” Schobel said from his home in Columbus. “I’m not positive that’s what I want to do. I just want to keep all my options open.”

foxsportshouston.com (http://www.foxsportshouston.com/08/06/10/Schobel-is-showing-interest-in-Houston/landing.html?blockID=285115&feedID=3714)

Texans may be Aarons first option, but McDaniels wants him to know that it is not his only option.