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View Full Version : Which QB is Woody Paige Talking About?



Sconnie Bronco
08-05-2010, 08:20 AM
A good friend of mine is a college football coach who recently went to a clinic held by former Florida Gators offensive coordinator Dan Mullen. He said Tim Tebow is a great leader, a great physical talent, but just can't process information quickly. That doesn't sound too good — seeing that the NFL is all about reading defenses and processing information very quickly. Do you have any inside info regarding Tebow's ability to read defenses at the snap of the ball?

— Alex, St. George, Utah
Woody Paige: Thanks, Alex. Great question. Josh McDaniels told me months ago that one of the major attributes Tebow possessed that impressed the coach was his ability to read defensive linemen and linebackers. Scott Loeffler, the quarterbacks coach at Florida (who formerly was in the NFL), agreed with that assessment.

McDaniels said he questioned Tebow about various alignments and defenses, and Tebow unquestionably knew how to read defenses. The coach also said he had quizzed another famous quarterback (drafted by another team this year), and he had no clue about reading defenses.

"When I asked him why, he said the coaches at (his college) never taught him how to read defenses," McDaniels said.

When McDaniels asked why, on his own or with help, he hadn't studied defenses between the end of the season and before the draft and gotten a better understanding of defenses, the quarterback replied that he intended to do that once he got to the pros.
I genuinely believe McDaniels in this case. He wouldn't have put so much stock in Tebow if he didn't believe the rookie was capable of recognizing defenses at the snap of the ball.

After Mullen left Florida to become the

Tim Tebow. (Hyoung Chang, The Denver Post)Mississippi State head coach, he was quoted as saying that Tebow was the best in the country at moving the ball "but won't beat you with the big play" after the loss of Percy Harvin and a couple of other Gators who left the previous year.
I have gone back and studied the statistics, and the Gators had the 10th-most sacks allowed in the Southeastern Conference during the regular season. I think most people remember the big sack in the Kentucky game that resulted in a Tebow concussion, but the defender was on top of him from the blind side before he could react. Honestly, he didn't get much pass protection last year at Florida and ended up much of the time just taking off and running.

I'm certain that Tebow doesn't comprehend defenses like Peyton Manning, but he has a natural ability to escape, and Mullen and others said he was the toughest back (running or quarter) in the league to tackle.

I will tell you this story: One night long ago, I went out with then-Broncos coach Dan Reeves and then-Nuggets coach Doug Moe for a relaxing dinner at the old Marriott on Hampden in Denver. During the course of the evening, Reeves said Elway couldn't read defenses, and the coaching staff had to anticipate what the defensive alignment would be on a certain play and make a call they thought would take advantage of the situation. I thought Elway got better at (and took more interest in) reading defenses later in his career. Terry Bradshaw never read defenses.

Tebow is smart. He

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studies the playbook more closely than anybody else. If there is a flaw (other than what everybody thinks is his flawed passing motion), it would be that Tebow checks his primary receiver, then takes off running rather than running through his progression of available receivers.

http://www.denverpost.com/broncos/ci_15678251

I thought this was interesting. What QB do you think this is? McCoy...Clausen...Bradford?

Im guessing its McCoy.


There's a lot of other stuff here...about Elway...about Tebow. Where to begin?

Why is Mullen trashing Tebow like that (since its apparently not true)? Ive heard they didnt get along and thats why he left the program.

Also, the story about Elway was interesting.

NightTrainLayne
08-05-2010, 09:34 AM
I love Sam Bradford, but I'm guessing that he's talking about Bradford.

Any OU fan knows that for the past couple of years the Sooners have run their version of a "Hurry-up" Spread, where they line up, see the defensive personnel, and the defensive alignment, and then Bradford and the receivers/RBs would all look to the sideline for the play call to come in.

The play call would be tailored to what the defense was showing.

In that scenario, Bradford would have almost zero need to recognize defensive alignment or "read" the defense. It would be a plus if he did in anticipating where the defensive pieces would be moving, but if I had to guess, I would guess that he's talking about Bradford.

BigDaddyBronco
08-05-2010, 09:38 AM
I love Sam Bradford, but I'm guessing that he's talking about Bradford.

Any OU fan knows that for the past couple of years the Sooners have run their version of a "Hurry-up" Spread, where they line up, see the defensive personnel, and the defensive alignment, and then Bradford and the receivers/RBs would all look to the sideline for the play call to come in.

The play call would be tailored to what the defense was showing.

In that scenario, Bradford would have almost zero need to recognize defensive alignment or "read" the defense. It would be a plus if he did in anticipating where the defensive pieces would be moving, but if I had to guess, I would guess that he's talking about Bradford.
Hey I found a new Night Train pic for you. I'll email it to you.

Sconnie Bronco
08-05-2010, 09:44 AM
I love Sam Bradford, but I'm guessing that he's talking about Bradford.

Any OU fan knows that for the past couple of years the Sooners have run their version of a "Hurry-up" Spread, where they line up, see the defensive personnel, and the defensive alignment, and then Bradford and the receivers/RBs would all look to the sideline for the play call to come in.

The play call would be tailored to what the defense was showing.

In that scenario, Bradford would have almost zero need to recognize defensive alignment or "read" the defense. It would be a plus if he did in anticipating where the defensive pieces would be moving, but if I had to guess, I would guess that he's talking about Bradford.

Good point. I was thinking McCoy because you often hear about how undercoached players at Texas are.

NightTrainLayne
08-05-2010, 09:47 AM
Good point. I was thinking McCoy because you often hear about how undercoached players at Texas are.

It could be any of the top-tier guys really. Who knows.

The important thing to take away I guess is that based on this Tebow should be able to grow into the pro game. At least he's not behind the curve in relation to other rookie QBs in this area according to Paige.

BigDaddyBronco
08-05-2010, 09:49 AM
It could be any of the top-tier guys really. Who knows.

The important thing to take away I guess is that based on this Tebow should be able to grow into the pro game. At least he's not behind the curve in relation to other rookie QBs in this area according to Paige.
Also that Dan Mullen wasn't his most recent coach, isn't with Florida, and might have an axe to grind.

Sconnie Bronco
08-05-2010, 09:50 AM
It could be any of the top-tier guys really. Who knows.

The important thing to take away I guess is that based on this Tebow should be able to grow into the pro game. At least he's not behind the curve in relation to other rookie QBs in this area according to Paige.

I agree...and additionally, there has probably been some questionable info circulated by Mullen who was perceived to be reliable by many.

SOCALORADO.
08-05-2010, 10:00 AM
I love Sam Bradford, but I'm guessing that he's talking about Bradford.

Any OU fan knows that for the past couple of years the Sooners have run their version of a "Hurry-up" Spread, where they line up, see the defensive personnel, and the defensive alignment, and then Bradford and the receivers/RBs would all look to the sideline for the play call to come in.

The play call would be tailored to what the defense was showing.

In that scenario, Bradford would have almost zero need to recognize defensive alignment or "read" the defense. It would be a plus if he did in anticipating where the defensive pieces would be moving, but if I had to guess, I would guess that he's talking about Bradford.

No need to guess, your exactly right.
Bradfords biggest ? is his inability to read defenses because the coaches were doing that on the sideline and then like you said relaying in the play calls. Hes clueless on defensive schemes. He also had the luxury of an aswome O-line, and Ingleisies(!??!) and Gresham to throw to.
From what i've read, STL was more concerned with this lack of knowledge by Bradford than his shoulder!
I always thought MCD was secretly in love with Bradofrd and said as much throughout all of last year, but when it came down to it, he would have taken Tebow over Bradford if DEN had the 1st pick in the draft!

I also recall MCD gushing AFTER the draft was complete about Tebows ability to not only explain complex defenses and how to diagnose them, but also Tebow began using MCD's own lingo as they talked! Tebow just acclimated and identified how MCD refered to a play or defensive alignment and then just himself started using the coach's own personal terms for specific reads and play calling while he was being intervied! This apprently was what put him over the top with MCD.

NightTrainLayne
08-05-2010, 10:04 AM
No need to guess, your exactly right.
Bradfords biggest ? is his inability to read defenses because the coaches were doing that on the sideline and then like you said relaying in the play calls. Hes clueless on defensive schemes. He also had the luxury of an aswome O-line, and Ingleisies(!??!) and Gresham to throw to.
From what i've read, STL was more concerned with this lack of knowledge by Bradford than his shoulder!
I always thought MCD was secretly in love with Bradofrd and said as much throughout all of last year, but when it came down to it, he would have taken Tebow over Bradford if DEN had the 1st pick in the draft!

I also recall MCD gushing AFTER the draft was complete about Tebows ability to not only explain complex defenses and how to diagnose them, but also Tebow began using MCD's own lingo as they talked! Tebow just acclimated and identified how MCD refered to a play or defensive alignment and then just himself started using the coach's own personal terms for specific reads and play calling while he was being intervied! This apprently was what put him over the top with MCD.

And all of this just excites the hell out of me. When you get an offensive guy like McD, and a talented QB like Tebow together. .. and then they practically fall in love with each other. .. Well that's a recipe for success.

SOCALORADO.
08-05-2010, 10:05 AM
It fairly common knowlegde out there on the interwebs about Bradfords lack of defensive knowledge.

http://www.nfldraftdog.com/2010-nfl-draft/sam-bradford.html
A second and nearly equally significant concern is the ability of Bradford to make pre-snap reads. An NFL quarterback must be able to read the defense before the snap to determine if the play needs to be changed or not. The Oklahoma system involves the team looking to the sideline to get the play. The reading of the D is done by the coaching staff in the booth, relayed to the sideline and given to the QB.

In the NFL, the QB must make the reads. Is the opponent going to blitz? Are they in zone, man or a combination coverage? Each of these possibilities requires different patterns and play calls. Many of the Big 12 QBs have never been responsible for making those reads. The problem is made more significant by the multiple defenses the NFL uses. While he had NFL quality receivers, they were not facing NFL quality defensive backs. These guys are bigger, faster, smarter, and hit a lot harder than any college conference defenses.


http://larrybrownsports.com/football/sam-bradford-is-the-right-pick-for-rams/16547
As far as Bradford goes individually, I feel like he has the tools to be successful. He has a good arm and he’s extremely accurate. My concern is less about Bradford’s shoulder and more about other aspects of his college career. For instance, Bradford was surrounded by outstanding receivers (Juaquin Iglesias and Jermaine Gresham amongst them), and he was protected by a superb offensive line. I think he’s the type of guy that will need a major supporting cast to succeed (not unlike many other quarterbacks). Lastly, the offensive coaches did most of the work for Bradford when it came to calling plays and reading defenses. I think it will take Bradford a few years to learn how to call audibles

I am not saying he wont be good, but he does need some tutoring in this dept.

Jagsbch
08-05-2010, 10:12 AM
Bradford is a no brainer, a 50 million dollar no brainer LOL:D

BroncoWave
08-05-2010, 11:46 AM
Also that Dan Mullen wasn't his most recent coach, isn't with Florida, and might have an axe to grind.

What are you trying to say here, that Mullen would have an axe to grind with Tebow?

rationalfan
08-05-2010, 02:31 PM
my money's on mccoy.

it's hard to imagine bradford would have actually met with the broncos, given they were never going to be in a position to draft him. and it's ever harder to imagine that mcd could have had some "secret" meeting that nobody in the ever-expanding "media" would have known about.

clausen could have fit, but i don't remember the broncos ever meeting with him. perhaps at the combine? but i'm not even sure clausen was there.

however, it was well reported that mcdaniels met with mccoy prior to the draft. and it's unlikely mcd was the only guy to figure this out regarding mccoy. could explain why he slipped to the third round.

add it up and it smells like mccoy.

Sconnie Bronco
08-05-2010, 02:39 PM
What are you trying to say here, that Mullen would have an axe to grind with Tebow?

Its possible.

It was rumored that there was tension between Tebow and Mullen.

BroncoWave
08-05-2010, 02:42 PM
Its possible.

It was rumored that there was tension between Tebow and Mullen.

That could not be further from the truth based on everything I have heard. I am a Mississippi State fan so I know alot about Mullen and I hear him talk frequently. He has never had anything but positive things to say about Tim Tebow and holds him in as high a regard as he has ever held any player.

Plus, why would he have an axe to grind with Tebow? Tebow's massive success in college is probably a big reason why Mullen landed a head coaching job in the SEC.

Could you please link an article citing this tension?

Sconnie Bronco
08-05-2010, 02:45 PM
my money's on mccoy.

it's hard to imagine bradford would have actually met with the broncos, given they were never going to be in a position to draft him. and it's ever harder to imagine that mcd could have had some "secret" meeting that nobody in the ever-expanding "media" would have known about.

clausen could have fit, but i don't remember the broncos ever meeting with him. perhaps at the combine? but i'm not even sure clausen was there.

however, it was well reported that mcdaniels met with mccoy prior to the draft. and it's unlikely mcd was the only guy to figure this out regarding mccoy. could explain why he slipped to the third round.

add it up and it smells like mccoy.

Another thing I thought about was that Bradford scored really high on the Wonderlic. Not that this is the end all, be all but I dont think its absurd to make the inference that he's smart enough to be mentally engaged with the nuances of the sport he plays. It would kind of make sense that someone who is smart would be curious enough on their own even with the setup that existed at Oklahoma where the coaches made the reads.

And lets face it, with so much money at stake, these guys typically get professional training for the combine and explaining Xs and Os is a very common practice at the combine. So, with Bradford possibly going in the top 10, youd expect him to be prepared for the various sit-downs with teams.

As you say, Colt was slotted to go lower, and had less at stake. The drop off in money even in the first round is huge.

T.K.O.
08-05-2010, 02:47 PM
the broncos met with 60 players....bradford could have been 1.....

BroncoWave
08-05-2010, 02:48 PM
the broncos met with 60 players....bradford could have been 1.....

They didn't meet with Bradford IIRC. That would have been a wasted meeting unless they were trying to trade up to #1.

slim
08-05-2010, 02:50 PM
I love Sam Bradford, but I'm guessing that he's talking about Bradford.

Any OU fan knows that for the past couple of years the Sooners have run their version of a "Hurry-up" Spread, where they line up, see the defensive personnel, and the defensive alignment, and then Bradford and the receivers/RBs would all look to the sideline for the play call to come in.

The play call would be tailored to what the defense was showing.

In that scenario, Bradford would have almost zero need to recognize defensive alignment or "read" the defense. It would be a plus if he did in anticipating where the defensive pieces would be moving, but if I had to guess, I would guess that he's talking about Bradford.

Man, you totally threw your boy under the bus :laugh:

I'm pretty sure it is McCoy.

JaxBroncoGirl
08-05-2010, 04:18 PM
I have wanted to comment on this all day. If it was Bradford, why pay him 50 million, if it was McCoy then that says a lot in the draft rankings. To tell a possible new coach, I was going to learn to read the defense once I made it to the Pros is most insulting to the coach and the team. I would have never drafted the QB.

It is good for us because we know it was not Tebow. Funny how things work out.............:cool:

BroncoWave
08-05-2010, 04:21 PM
Can any of the UF fans on here comment on any friction between Mullen/Tebow? I follow the SEC very closely and especially Mullen since he coaches my favorite team, and I have never heard anything about this.