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View Full Version : Krieger: McDaniels' boldest move



nevcraw
07-25-2010, 10:39 AM
http://www.denverpost.com/broncos/ci_15595674


There has been no shortage of bold moves during the Josh McDaniels era at Dove Valleytrading Jay Cutler, suspending and trading Brandon Marshall, drafting Tim Tebow — but signing Elvis Dumervil to a big-money, long-term contract extension is right up there.

On a micro level — inside the Broncos' locker room — it was something McDaniels pretty much had to do following the tumult of his first 18 months on the job. Other players were well aware that Cutler and Marshall got big new contracts after agitating their way out of town. Until last week, Dumervil's quiet loyalty had earned him nothing but a one-year tender.

The evidence was beginning to suggest that players in line for big bucks weren't going to get them in Denver. The Broncos' second-year coach insisted this wasn't true, but he needed evidence.

The price of the Dumervil message — that team play, loyalty and keeping your mouth shut are rewarded — was to pay last year's NFL sack leader like one of the best defensive players in football. Dumervil's extension was worth more than the one Niners all-world linebacker Patrick Willis signed two months ago.

That puts pressure on Dumervil to play at an elite level, but it also puts pressure on McDaniels to be right about his first big financial commitment as a head coach. To say that Dumervil deserved a multiyear contract offer is not the same as saying he deserves to be paid more than Willis.

Which raises the question: Was McDaniels forced to overpay Dumervil to make his bold statement about loyalty to the locker room?

The Broncos can point out that Dumervil's guaranteed money — reportedly more than $40 million — fits right in with the guarantees to elite pass rushers Julius Peppers and DeMarcus Ware. There is a constant debate within the NFL as to whether sack artists are worth their exorbitant price tags, because while they make bigger plays than traditional linebackers, they make fewer of them.

In any case, both Dumervil's reputation as a player and McDaniels' reputation as a judge of talent are now bound together by this contract.

There's also a macro level here, and Dumervil's new deal is bold in that context too. The team the Broncos have to overcome to get back on top of the AFC West, the San Diego Chargers, has basically renounced two of its best players for more than half the season because it is unwilling to write long-term contract extensions with the league's labor agreement about to expire.

Marcus McNeill, the Pro Bowl left tackle, and Vincent Jackson, the Pro Bowl receiver, are both threatening to sit out the first 10 games, returning only to qualify for another year's service toward free agency. Unlike Dumervil, they refused to sign their one-year contract tenders. The difference was Dumervil knew talks were underway on a long-term deal. McNeill and Jackson knew they weren't.

"It hurts when you don't have your players," Chargers general manager A.J. Smith told Yahoo Sports recently. "How are you going to win a championship without your left tackle and your wideout? I'm sick about it."

Nevertheless, the Chargers won't budge on the long-term contract issue, and they're not alone. The Colts are dragging their feet on an extension for Peyton Manning for the same reason — a lack of visibility into the rules under a new labor agreement.

This refusal is a bit bizarre. NBA teams face the same prospect of a labor dispute next year, but that didn't stop them from paying this year's free agents. A new NFL labor agreement might reduce the salary cap marginally, but it's hard to see how that possibility justifies surrendering stars now, especially when you have a chance to win a championship. The most contentious issues in the NFL talks — HGH testing, a rookie salary scale and an 18-game season — are unrelated to the size of veteran contracts.

Chargers linebacker Shaun Phillips remains convinced club management will come to its senses, telling ESPN last week, "I believe our organization knows we need those guys to win."

The evidence to date suggests the opposite. Smith claims to have moved on, signing journeymen to replace McNeill and Jackson. McNeill's job is to protect star quarterback Philip Rivers' blind side, so the Chargers' contractual caution could endanger their franchise player.

The Broncos showed no such caution, boldly going where many other teams refuse to go with Dumervil's big payday. They also quieted talk they would no longer pay top dollar.

So McDaniels continues to make bold moves. In this case, he just needs Dumervil to make him look good.

__________________________________________________ _____________

Krieger's point is valid and correct. MCd is tied to all his bold moves - this one being the most recent and the one with $$$ signs attached..
the only thing I would argue aginst this article - is the broncos are not the only team paying this year as he is insinuating.. Maybe the only one in the AFC west.

Northman
07-25-2010, 11:47 AM
Although on the surface im sure it looks like McD HAD to pay Doom but the reality McD really doesnt care what anyone else thinks as he has proven that time and time again. He's just far to arrogant to worry about outside influence. I believe that Doom got paid because he believes the kid is worth the money and is a good soja for him.

Lonestar
07-25-2010, 12:15 PM
So is that good or bad.
Mobile Post via Mobile.BroncosForums.com/forums

Slick
07-25-2010, 12:29 PM
I think an even bolder move would have been to let the best pass rusher this team has had in 10 years walk.

Shazam!
07-25-2010, 12:36 PM
What a load of crap.

Another excuse to dump on McD.

The guy can do nothing right.

Every one of his moves will be questioned and dissected until the end result is seen - WINS.

If he didnt give Doom the big money, he'd be blasted for it.

Then when he does, it's 'Well...'

...and Slick is right. Despite his weaknesses he's the best pass rusher the Broncos have had in ages. He must be kept on.


"It hurts when you don't have your players," Chargers general manager A.J. Smith told Yahoo Sports recently. "How are you going to win a championship without your left tackle and your wideout? I'm sick about it."

Dont worry AJ. It isnt a stretch to say SD isnt winning the Super Bowl this year.

Denver Native (Carol)
07-25-2010, 01:03 PM
It amazes me to see the words "arrogant" and "ego" associated with Coach McD, because of the moves he has made - why can't the moves he made, be considered moves he felt necessary to compile the type of players he wants - TEAM players, rather than have ME players? And NO, it was not a bold move in signing Dumervil, as he is a TEAM player.

I found the following interesting:

http://nflsoup.com/?p=2626

It’s interesting how the NFL works, isn’t it?

The Denver Broncos fire long-time NFL coach Mike Shanahan, and in enters this punk-spawn from the Bill Belichick tree, with a chip on his shoulder, and a head the size of Mount Everest.

McDaniels wasted no time shaking things up in Denver, immediately trying to “upgrade” over Pro Bowl quarterback Jay Cutler by attempting to trade for a one-year wonder n Matt Cassel.

His attempt failed, he had a falling out with Cutler, and the Broncos waiver bye-bye to their golden boy.

Then came the brush with star prima dona receiver Brandon Marshall. We heard about the injuries, treatment from both sides, and contract issues.

Then Marshall played up to his potential (per usual), helped the Broncos to a 6-0 starts, and everything was forgotten. Of course, only until Denver began a disturbing slide, stumbled into Week 17 at 8-7, and did so without a benched Brandon Marshall.

Fast forward to a few weeks ago. The now heavily criticized McDaniels finally pulls the trigger on a trade, sending Marshall to Miami for two second-round picks, and then follows that by getting rid of his offense’s last problem child (all of Denver hopes), while getting a fifth-round pick in return.

There’s a pattern here, folks. McDaniels enters, Cutler leaves. Then Marshall. Then Scheffler. And on a much lighter note, so too did Peyton Hillis.

The question now is, were these guys really the problem, or was McDaniels just letting his ego getting in the way? Well, it is professional football, so there’s no disputing his ego has to play into what went on to some degree, but if you look closely, there is a developing pattern.

And this pattern is weaving a design that will soon form into a winning foundation.

Josh McDaniels isn’t producing some cookie-cutter Bill Belichick feast. He’s dining with his own dish, his chosen utensils, and he’s selectively picking his dinner guests.

He showed this when he brought in the aging, but still wrily veteran safety, Brian Dawkins. He showed it even more by giving some lesser-known defenders a chance to prove themselves.

And then he took that next big step: the risk of having your entire fan-base disown you.

He traded away his elite, cocky starting quarterback. He ridded of a young, superstar wide receiver, and he tossed away another young, play-making tight end.

But then McDaniels made a move that very few of us saw coming. He traded up, and drafted Florida’s Tim Tebow.

And, while it’s true we won’t know what becomes of this for quite some time, it was still all kinds of magical.

Let’s think about this for a moment.

All of McDaniels’ moves and decision got us to this point. It’s like he knew from the start. And it’s almost sad, and rather embarrassing, that we’re just now starting to see it come to fruition.

McDaniels unloaded the guys with the big contracts, the guys who baled over their small contracts, and anyone who wasn’t content enough with their role on the Denver Broncos.

And it led to the consummate team player. It brought McDaniels and the Broncos to Tebow, a guy with the world’s largest chip on his shoulder; a guy who (there is no doubt in my mind) will work harder than anyone else in the league, and he will become a good starting quarterback.

Tebow doesn’t have to be the starter in year one. Because Tebow knows what a team is. He’ll run the tough yards, play a little H-back and tight end, and he’ll help Denver put together some Wildcat packages. After all, whatever the team needs, that comes first.

McDaniels is turning out to be a big, sappy softy. He’s not an egomaniac. Of course, that clearly all depends on your perception of what he’s doing and what your own interpretation of what an egomaniac is.

But he’s a guy who believes in the system. He believe a philosophy is bigger than talent. He knows that the team is more important than any one individual player.

And by trading up to draft Tebow with the 25th selection in the first-round of the 2010 NFL Draft, he showed (through sacrificing elite assets) that a player like Tebow, one who represented exactly what his entire team needs and should strive to be, was more important than paying a big-name receiver, dealing with a pouty star quarterback, or catering to the desires of a pompous tight end.

Josh McDaniels is doing it his way, and damn me if I’m wrong, but I finally am buying into it.

Bosco
07-25-2010, 01:06 PM
He's just far to arrogant to worry about outside influence. I love that about him.

Northman
07-25-2010, 01:07 PM
He is arrogant, most coaches are. lol

Funny, even when you try to defend the guy you still have people crying.

WARHORSE
07-25-2010, 01:14 PM
Although on the surface im sure it looks like McD HAD to pay Doom but the reality McD really doesnt care what anyone else thinks as he has proven that time and time again. He's just far to arrogant to worry about outside influence. I believe that Doom got paid because he believes the kid is worth the money and is a good soja for him.


I guess its possible its arrogance.


But I also think it could be a coach smart enough to know what hes doing.


As Ive stated before, alot of McDs decisions get questioned simply because hes a first time HC.

Anyone see Andy Reid getting a spit storm for cranking out McNabb?

One thing he is not getting, is a tag of arrogance.

He made a decision, and the media and sportsnation all have given their takes on it. Some think it was good, some think it was bad. But it wasnt arrogance because he simply did what he thought was right.

No head coach flinches in the face of their decisions.......and sticks around long.

As I said, JMCD has got big balls. And imo, hes a mans man even if he is young. A lesser man could have EASILY taken the high road on alot of these issues when the media spit storm hit them full in the face.

I think during the NFL owners meeting last year, it started to wear on him.
But in the end, he weathered the storm, and is a stronger man for it.

One thing we know........it cant start much rougher for a guy.

At least hes not Jim Zorn.

Jim Zorn has balls the size of bbs. There is a man who crumbled under the position of HC.

Clinton Portis ran that lockeroom. Not Zorn.

It speaks volumes that Josh has won over the lockeroom as young as he is.

VOLUMES.

Does anyone doubt that if there was a veteran in the group that didnt like what was going on, that they didnt have the ammo to give McD problems?

Bye Brandon.

Bye Scheffler.

Bye Cutler.


BIG BALLS.:coffee:


Hello DOOM!!!!


Awesome statement on behalf of Pat, McD and X.


Denver wanted to do this on many levels. Im glad its done, but more than that, I hope it works out.

We deserve a break.

Northman
07-25-2010, 01:18 PM
I guess its possible its arrogance.


But I also think it could be a coach smart enough to know what hes doing.


As Ive stated before, alot of McDs decisions get questioned simply because hes a first time HC.

Anyone see Andy Reid getting a spit storm for cranking out McNabb?

One thing he is not getting, is a tag of arrogance.

He made a decision, and the media and sportsnation all have given their takes on it. Some think it was good, some think it was bad. But it wasnt arrogance because he simply did what he thought was right.

No head coach flinches in the face of their decisions.......and sticks around long.

As I said, JMCD has got big balls. And imo, hes a mans man even if he is young. A lesser man could have EASILY taken the high road on alot of these issues when the media spit storm hit them full in the face.

I think during the NFL owners meeting last year, it started to wear on him.
But in the end, he weathered the storm, and is a stronger man for it.

One thing we know........it cant start much rougher for a guy.

At least hes not Jim Zorn.

Jim Zorn has balls the size of bbs. There is a man who crumbled under the position of HC.

Clinton Portis ran that lockeroom. Not Zorn.

It speaks volumes that Josh has won over the lockeroom as young as he is.

VOLUMES.

Does anyone doubt that if there was a veteran in the group that didnt like what was going on, that they didnt have the ammo to give McD problems?

Bye Brandon.

Bye Scheffler.

Bye Cutler.


BIG BALLS.:coffee:


Hello DOOM!!!!


Awesome statement on behalf of Pat, McD and X.


Denver wanted to do this on many levels. Im glad its done, but more than that, I hope it works out.

We deserve a break.

Sure, your entitled to an opinion mon. :beer:

Dreadnought
07-25-2010, 01:36 PM
It amazes me to see the words "arrogant" and "ego" associated with Coach McD, because of the moves he has made - why can't the moves he made, be considered moves he felt necessary to compile the type of players he wants - TEAM players, rather than have ME players? And NO, it was not a bold move in signing Dumervil, as he is a TEAM player.

Carol, I think its because - at least in my case - I simply reject the interpretation that the guys we got rid of were any less "Team" players than the ones he acquired. Its nonsense on stilts, frankly. They are more McDaniels guys, sure - but more "team" players? Rubbish. Total revisionism, or rather some of these guys get falsely label as "selfish" for the supposed crime of being dumped from the roster by a coach a lot of fans have invested emotionally in, and probably for good reason. I ain't buying it myself for a second, and I think its why I remain a disgruntled and pissed off fan. Loyalty from fans should extend to some extent to ex-Broncos IMO.

Exceptions should be made for proven turds like Eddie Kennison, Travis Henry, and Dale Carter of course :D

Elevation inc
07-25-2010, 01:47 PM
Im not always sure if the moves he makes are whats best for the team, but the reality is i respect him no matter what becasue he is one of the very few in the NFL who does what he belives in period!!!!!! He belives his system of high character is what works and he has orchestrated his team and built it to perfection regarding that stance....We have yet to see his full squad his way on the field.....none of us really no if we will get 4 wins eight wins or 12 wins, some of us have more hope than others....and thats fine its not a big deal.....but i give credit where credit is due, and MCD has earned my respect.....lets hope the wins and a playoff berth are the next sequence for this team.....

Elevation inc
07-25-2010, 01:51 PM
Carol, I think its because - at least in my case - I simply reject the interpretation that the guys we got rid of were any less "Team" players than the ones he acquired. Its nonsense on stilts, frankly. They are more McDaniels guys, sure - but more "team" players? Rubbish. Total revisionism, or rather some of these guys get falsely label as "selfish" for the supposed crime of being dumped from the roster by a coach a lot of fans have invested emotionally in, and probably for good reason. I ain't buying it myself for a second, and I think its why I remain a disgruntled and pissed off fan. Loyalty from fans should extend to some extent to ex-Broncos IMO.

Exceptions should be made for proven turds like Eddie Kennison, Travis Henry, and Dale Carter of course :D

sheffler couldnt block and as always hurt, cutler wined his way out of denver and marshall acted liek a prima dona WR....those my dear friend our not team players.....i will not stand here and bash the character or those 3 players as i still like all 3, but its twisted to think they were team players.....coaches change and if players cant deal it falls on them as well....and none of those 3 handled shanny being gone well at all....

we have a new team and a new identity...will it work for us??? thats to be detemined, but the players still here are the epitomoy of team first(ELVIS IS A PRIME EXAMPLE OF THAT).....i think this is the first year in 4 or 5 where we havent had a player arrested or in some big legal issue during a off-season..i like wins just as much as the next person, but its nice not hearing what latest bronco was arrested in the news......

Lonestar
07-25-2010, 01:52 PM
Carol, I think its because - at least in my case - I simply reject the interpretation that the guys we got rid of were any less "Team" players than the ones he acquired. Its nonsense on stilts, frankly. They are more McDaniels guys, sure - but more "team" players? Rubbish. Total revisionism, or rather some of these guys get falsely label as "selfish" for the supposed crime of being dumped from the roster by a coach a lot of fans have invested emotionally in, and probably for good reason. I ain't buying it myself for a second, and I think its why I remain a disgruntled and pissed off fan. Loyalty from fans should extend to some extent to ex-Broncos IMO.

Exceptions should be made for proven turds like Eddie Kennison, Travis Henry, and Dale Carter of course :D

just so I have this correct your ok with players that are looking out only for their own glory and stats.

That worry about getting the ball all the time or instead of throwing to the open man in the flat that can get you that first down go for the glory and try to stick it in a VERY tight spot.

You'd rather have me players that can't get along with the HC and cause issues in the locker room.

If that is the case your going to have a long hard time following the Broncos , cause that is the face of the team now and for along time I suspect.

Dreadnought
07-25-2010, 02:57 PM
sheffler couldnt block and as always hurt, cutler wined his way out of denver and marshall acted liek a prima dona WR....those my dear friend our not team players.....i will not stand here and bash the character or those 3 players as i still like all 3, but its twisted to think they were team players.....coaches change and if players cant deal it falls on them as well....and none of those 3 handled shanny being gone well at all....

we have a new team and a new identity...will it work for us??? thats to be detemined, but the players still here are the epitomoy of team first(ELVIS IS A PRIME EXAMPLE OF THAT).....i think this is the first year in 4 or 5 where we havent had a player arrested or in some big legal issue during a off-season..i like wins just as much as the next person, but its nice not hearing what latest bronco was arrested in the news......

sheffler couldnt block and as always hurt - Not true. Blocking was not a strength, for sure, but he is one of the best receiving TE's in the League, IMO a far more important attribute than blocking. His injury record was actually fine when you look at it. McDaniels didn't know what to do with the guy so he treated him like a dog turd. Not surprisingly, he had little interest in sticking around. Neither would I.

cutler wined his way out of denver - I simply believe this to be utterly false. Thats an old story though. I never did believe the McDaniels version of History on this.

marshall acted like a prima dona WR - He acted like a Horses Asss, regularly too. Prima Donna? Not really. There is tons of bonehead in BM, but his problems are very different than, say, Randy Moss or TO. He at least I am frankly glad to see the last of, but at no time did he ever strike me as a "selfish" player, nor was he lazy, nor did he take plays off the way Moss and TO do. A stupid kid, yep. A Goodell problem waiting to happen? Yep. Not the same thing at all.

In any event, my complaint isn't solely the treatment of these three, shabby as it often was in differing ways. There were other good "team" guys got shafted as well, many of whom had a better cause for complaint than Brandon Marshall. If you want to argue that McDaniels needed his own type of ballplayers to make things work I'll partially buy that - but the gratuitous and bogus labeling of anybody who didn't fit in with his plans as a "selfish" type guy is frankly silly and rings utterly false. The whole thing made me think its the kind of horsecrap slung around by a second rate corporate hatchet-man when cleaning house. I've never seen that kind of thing work in any endeavour in real life, and its why I lost respect for the current regime. Not to mention, in the end it leads to epic implosions (as seen in 2009) and the eventual collapse and rebuilding of the franchise, because there is no actual leadership happening. Yelling? Check. Fake tough guy posturing? Check. Blame-shifting? Check. Excuses? Yep. Thats where I think we were by the end of last year and where we are headed.

My hope is that the next guy can take the remarkable and unusual tool we have in Tim Tebow and do something with him - and that he isn't the sort to dump first rate players and blow up a roster for the sole sin of them having been drafted by somebody elses draft team. Thats what I think we have now.

TXBRONC
07-25-2010, 03:02 PM
I think an even bolder move would have been to let the best pass rusher this team has had in 10 years walk.

That or completely insane.

Dreadnought
07-25-2010, 03:03 PM
just so I have this correct your ok with players that are looking out only for their own glory and stats.

Of course not, and I don't think we had any of those guys either. You have no evidence yourself for this, merely an assertion it was so.

Northman
07-25-2010, 03:07 PM
sheffler couldnt block and as always hurt - Not true. Blocking was not a strength, for sure, but he is one of the best receiving TE's in the League, IMO a far more important attribute than blocking. His injury record was actually fine when you look at it. McDaniels didn't know what to do with the guy so he treated him like a dog turd. Not surprisingly, he had little interest in sticking around. Neither would I.

Although i agree that Sheff was a very good receiving TE his ankle injuries were getting very bothersome much like Orton's is. But, when Sheff started running his mouth in the lockeroom it was becoming evident he needed to go so i dont mind cutting him loose.


cutler wined his way out of denver - I simply believe this to be utterly false. Thats an old story though. I never did believe the McDaniels version of History on this.

Not really false when he is quoted directly in the media. McD certainly started the fiasco but in the end Jay couldnt move on from it which was his perogative.


marshall acted like a prima dona WR - He acted like a Horses Asss, regularly too. Prima Donna? Not really. There is tons of bonehead in BM, but his problems are very different than, say, Randy Moss or TO. He at least I am frankly glad to see the last of, but at no time did he ever strike me as a "selfish" player, nor was he lazy, nor did he take plays off the way Moss and TO do. A stupid kid, yep. A Goodell problem waiting to happen? Yep. Not the same thing at all.

Pretty much dead on except when Marshall didnt feel like working or if it was too cold outside. But when he wanted to he gave 100% on the field no doubt about it.


In any event, my complaint isn't solely the treatment of these three, shabby as it often was in differing ways. There were other good "team" guys got shafted as well, many of whom had a better cause for complaint than Brandon Marshall. If you want to argue that McDaniels needed his own type of ballplayers to make things work I'll partially buy that - but the gratuitous and bogus labeling of anybody who didn't fit in with his plans as a "selfish" type guy is frankly silly and rings utterly false. The whole thing made me think its the kind of horsecrap slung around by a second rate corporate hatchet-man when cleaning house. I've never seen that kind of thing work in any endeavour in real life, and its why I lost respect for the current regime. Not to mention, in the end it leads to epic implosions (as seen in 2009) and the eventual collapse and rebuilding of the franchise, because there is no actual leadership happening. Yelling? Check. Fake tough guy posturing? Check. Blame-shifting? Check. Excuses? Yep. Thats where I think we were by the end of last year and where we are headed.

My hope is that the next guy can take the remarkable and unusual tool we have in Tim Tebow and do something with him - and that he isn't the sort to dump first rate players and blow up a roster for the sole sin of them having been drafted by somebody elses draft team. Thats what I think we have now.

Not sure if this here will all come out like you think but i do think if we dont do better than 8-8 this year McD may be gone. He just simply wasnt brought in to regress with this team.

Bosco
07-25-2010, 03:11 PM
McDaniels didn't know what to do with the guy so he treated him like a dog turd. Not surprisingly, he had little interest in sticking around. Neither would I. That's funny. McD was calling the plays for all but Ben Watson's rookie season and managed to make decent use of him when he was healthy.

TXBRONC
07-25-2010, 03:19 PM
McDaniels was calling plays in 2003 and 2004 when Charlie Weis was still the offensive coordiantor? Ah no.

dogfish
07-25-2010, 04:07 PM
enh, don't agree at all. . .

getting rid of cutler was by far and away the bolder move, hands down. . . talented, productive young quarterbacks are the single most valuable commodity in the game, and giving one away when you don't have another is a huge risk-- one that it's still going to take at least several years to determine the outcome of. . .

dumervil has proven to be productive playing different positions, in different schemes, and with little talent around him in the front seven. . . he's relentless on the field, takes well to coaching, and handles himself like a consummate pro at all times. . . signing a guy to that size of deal is always a risk in terms of the injury potential, but it's just part of the game. . .

TXBRONC
07-25-2010, 04:16 PM
enh, don't agree at all. . .

getting rid of cutler was by far and away the bolder move, hands down. . . talented, productive young quarterbacks are the single most valuable commodity in the game, and giving one away when you don't have another is a huge risk-- one that it's still going to take at least several years to determine the outcome of. . .

dumervil has proven to be productive playing different positions, in different schemes, and with little talent around him in the front seven. . . he's relentless on the field, takes well to coaching, and handles himself like a consummate pro at all times. . . signing a guy to that size of deal is always a risk in terms of the injury potential, but it's just part of the game. . .

I hope we get Dumervil some help rushing the passer he's going to need it.

dogfish
07-25-2010, 04:22 PM
Carol, I think its because - at least in my case - I simply reject the interpretation that the guys we got rid of were any less "Team" players than the ones he acquired. Its nonsense on stilts, frankly. They are more McDaniels guys, sure - but more "team" players? Rubbish. Total revisionism, or rather some of these guys get falsely label as "selfish" for the supposed crime of being dumped from the roster by a coach a lot of fans have invested emotionally in, and probably for good reason. I ain't buying it myself for a second, and I think its why I remain a disgruntled and pissed off fan. Loyalty from fans should extend to some extent to ex-Broncos IMO.

Exceptions should be made for proven turds like Eddie Kennison, Travis Henry, and Dale Carter of course :D

really, dread?

don't get me wrong, i do agree to a large extent that a LOT of revisionist history goes on regarding former broncos, but. . . i don't believe for one second that you can't see the difference between brandon marshall freakin' punting the ball in practice, literally just like a petulant seven-year-old (it's on video-- no speculation involved), and the way dumervil has handled his situation. . .

when it comes to scheffler, i absolutely don't blame him for wanting to play somewhere else-- it was clear as day right from the beginning that mcD had zero interest in having the guy here. . . that's how it goes sometimes with regime change. . . while i don't bear scheffler the ill will that most do (i find it kinda childish), i will point out the contrast in the way hillis handled pretty much the exact same situation. . . shut up and play the year out like a pro, you're going somewhere else next year either way. . .

can you imagine tebow complaining to teammates that he wished the season was done because he wasn't featured in the game plan? no way. . . no way! or brian dawkins. . . ?

the perceptions of a lot of fans is a separate issue IMO, and one that i by and large feel the same way you do. . . fan perceptions aside though, i do think it's tough to argue that mcD hasn't been as good as his word when it comes to the type of players he's brought in. . .

HORSEPOWER 56
07-25-2010, 04:22 PM
Well, whatever the "boldest move" is, I'm just happy we locked up the best pass rusher in the league long term.

GO DOOM!!!! :defense:

dogfish
07-25-2010, 04:24 PM
I hope we get Dumervil some help rushing the passer he's going to need it.

yea, no question. . . if ayers can't get it done this year, IMO it has to be a high priority going into the following season. . .


hopefully jarvis green can regain some of his effectiveness in that area assuming we move him back to more of a rotational role. . . .

BroncoWave
07-25-2010, 04:38 PM
My hope is that the next guy can take the remarkable and unusual tool we have in Tim Tebow and do something with him -.

Why not hope that our CURRENT coach can do this with him instead of already wishing him out of town because you don't like the way he does things?

And I am sorry but if you really believe that Cutler, Marshall, and Schef were all team first guys then you are blinded beyond repair by McD hate.

Dreadnought
07-25-2010, 05:58 PM
Why not hope that our CURRENT coach can do this with him instead of already wishing him out of town because you don't like the way he does things?

And I am sorry but if you really believe that Cutler, Marshall, and Schef were all team first guys then you are blinded beyond repair by McD hate.

Remember, McD was the guy I wanted hired to replace Shanny in the first place. He turned me sour through his own poor performance throughout 2009 - and to try and claim "McD hatred" is an attempt to dodge the issues. And I am wishing him out of town ASAP before he can do even more damage. First rule in getting out of a hole is stop digging.


don't get me wrong, i do agree to a large extent that a LOT of revisionist history goes on regarding former broncos, but. . . i don't believe for one second that you can't see the difference between brandon marshall freakin' punting the ball in practice, literally just like a petulant seven-year-old (it's on video-- no speculation involved), and the way dumervil has handled his situation

Oh there is no question BM can be a dick - and I already said I'm glad he's gone. He is just a very different species of dick from TO and Randy Moss. I think he could have been worked with.

Oh, and you mentioned Hillis...the guy was a total class act and consummate team player - and he got shafted anyways. Why? Good friggin question, ain't it? Sure didn't have to do with attitude though, and more proof to me that the existing 2009 roster was not being graded objectively, and that speaks badly to McDaniels character.

The real bad character players are eventually a problem with every coach. If they are only a problem with one coach, guess who is at fault then?

BroncoWave
07-25-2010, 05:59 PM
So you'd rather him fail and leave than succeed and say. That makes alot of sense! :rolleyes:

I cannot WAIT to pull some of these threads back up after this season.

Dreadnought
07-25-2010, 06:02 PM
So you'd rather him fail and leave than succeed and say. That makes alot of sense! :rolleyes:

I cannot WAIT to pull some of these threads back up after this season.

That's because I judge his odds of success at right about zero. He has already proven he is a dud and a blowhard. That question is settled. Now the remaining question is how much more damage does he do? I hope not much

BroncoWave
07-25-2010, 07:00 PM
That's because I judge his odds of success at right about zero. He has already proven he is a dud and a blowhard. That question is settled. Now the remaining question is how much more damage does he do? I hope not much

Wow, just wow. So you are admitting you'd rather him fail so we can get a new coach in rather that see him succeed and build upon what he has done so far. Unbelievable.

I'm REALLY glad you don't own this team. We'd have a different head coach every year if you just declared them failures because of their first season.

To me, last season all but proved how legit of a coach he is. He came in with an entirely new system that the players he inherited weren't suited to at all, got rid of who many considered the best and most important player on the team, and still led the team to the same win total they had the year before. If that's not good coaching I don't know what is.

To put it bluntly, saying his chance at success is zero is about the most idiotic thing I have read on this board all offseason, and that is saying quite a bit.

Like I said, I cannot WAIT to pull threads like these up after this season. I feel there will be alot of crow being eaten.

Dreadnought
07-25-2010, 07:04 PM
Wow, just wow. So you are admitting you'd rather him fail so we can get a new coach in rather that see him succeed and build upon what he has done so far. Unbelievable.

I'm REALLY glad you don't own this team. We'd have a different head coach every year if you just declared them failures because of their first season.

To me, last season all but proved how legit of a coach he is. He came in with an entirely new system that the players he inherited weren't suited to at all, got rid of who many considered the best and most important player on the team, and still led the team to the same win total they had the year before. If that's not good coaching I don't know what is.

To put it bluntly, saying his chance at success is zero is about the most idiotic thing I have read on this board all offseason, and that is saying quite a bit.

Like I said, I cannot WAIT to pull threads like these up after this season. I feel there will be alot of crow being eaten.

Please reread what I wrote, for accuracy this time, and don't make up your own version to then skewer. TIA

Northman
07-25-2010, 07:06 PM
Please reread what I wrote, for accuracy this time, and don't make up your own version to then skewer. TIA

Good luck with that. :lol:

dogfish
07-25-2010, 07:07 PM
Remember, McD was the guy I wanted hired to replace Shanny in the first place. He turned me sour through his own poor performance throughout 2009 - and to try and claim "McD hatred" is an attempt to dodge the issues. And I am wishing him out of town ASAP before he can do even more damage. First rule in getting out of a hole is stop digging.



Oh there is no question BM can be a dick - and I already said I'm glad he's gone. He is just a very different species of dick from TO and Randy Moss. I think he could have been worked with.

Oh, and you mentioned Hillis...the guy was a total class act and consummate team player - and he got shafted anyways. Why? Good friggin question, ain't it? Sure didn't have to do with attitude though, and more proof to me that the existing 2009 roster was not being graded objectively, and that speaks badly to McDaniels character.

The real bad character players are eventually a problem with every coach. If they are only a problem with one coach, guess who is at fault then?

i've never pretended that i have any idea why he didn't like hillis-- still baffles me to be honest with you, but i've decided there's no point worrying about it. . . i certainly wish we'd kept at least a few of those guys (quite frankly, i'll continue on some level to wish we'd kept cutler unless/until tebow proves that he can be the man at this level), but other coaches that were here before mcD got rid of some guys i liked as well. . . mcdaniels doesn't have any kind of copyright on that move-- he just happened to go about it in an unusually spectacular manner. . . a very exuberant manner, shall we say. . . . :heh:

in all honesty, i'm pretty much the opposite of you-- he was never the guy i wanted. . . i wanted spagnuolo-- and before anyone makes lame cracks about how bad the rams were last year, look at the utter embarrasment of a roster he inherited plus all the injuries they had, and tell me who short of vince lombardi, don shula or tom landry could have done much better. . .

i wanted somebody to come in and basically just gut the defense down to bailey, DJ williams and dumervil and replace everything else from the ground up with an attacking defense. . . maybe draft a couple big nasty interior OLs and a real running back. . .

i didn't want the offensive coach from the belicheat tree, and i hated him when he immediately started blowing up the offense. . . he really earned a lot of my respect back with the defensive staff he put together, though. . . getting an accomplished DC, of course, but also better quality position coaches than we'd had a lot if not most of the time under shanahan (i mean on defense, of course). . . those are the guys that develop your draft picks, and are responsible for a lot of the technique and fundamentals type work. . .

having good, experienced guys in those positions helps teams build depth and get solid contributions out of later round guys over the years. . . given how well shanahan did with offensive assistants and position coaches like gary kubiak, bobby turner, alex gibbs and rick dennison, it's surprising and disappointing that he wasn't ever really able to get the same caliber defensive staff in place. . . not that we didn't have some decent coaches over the years (coyer was a good LB coach, and a competent DC within his limits), but overall the staff on that side of the ball wasn't nearly as good-- and it clearly showed in the results. . .

i liked the addition of veteran leadership on that side of the ball, and the more physcal approach to TC, etc. . . i do still think he's (understandably) raw in a lot of the non-X's-and-O's stuff that head coaches are expected to do, and icontinue to have some serious questions/concerns regarding his people management skills. . . but. . . i'm happy that we got bigger on the offensive line (if you don't love JD walton by the end of the season i will refund your broncos forums subscription cost for the year), and i'm pretty intrigued about what tebow can do. . .

after most of the key guys from those 97-98 superteams retired, shanahan just was never quite able to put the right guys back in place-- he routinely murdered our drafts, ignored the offensive and defensive lines, and embarrassed us with so many free agent debacles. . . said offensive staff, his own game planning talent and one brilliant trade were enough to keep us competetive-- no small feat, for sure-- but i was so sick of watching his silly little finesse teams get toyed with whenever we got to the playoffs, it was getting to the soul-killing point. . . i just couldn't stand it anymore, and he just didn't have any idea how (or even WHY) to put a team out there that wouldn't get pushed around. . . on a very fundamental level, it just makes me happy that we at least brought in a guy who's willing to do the obvious, and get some big boy linemen. . .

it does concern me some that mcD isn't afraid to bring in a lot of rookies who aren't strong candidates to contribute much right away, along with some injury concerns, when we're relying on a rapidly-aging defense. . . i've said it before, if a lot of these guys he's drafted the past two years (ayers, smith, quinn, and now thomas, tebow, beadles, walton and decker) aren't ready to produce at a high level within a year or so, this thing could blow up in his face in a major way. . .

on the flip side, we could be in pretty damn good shape if those guys do come through. . . we still need young talent in the front seven to develop, and probably another running back. . . hopefully adding some badly-needed big hosses on both lines this offseason should pay some pretty quick dividends, though. . . i'm optimistic about martindale as the DC, and if the defense can play the way they did early last year and sustain it with some reinforcements. . . hmmm. . . we could see some real, worthwhile, sustainable progress this year. . .

bannan's not a household name, but guys who do the dirty work and do it well can't be overvalued-- he's done that for years for the ratbirds, and he's going to help. . . he and fields and mcbean give us a competent, blue collar rotation of two-gappers. . . add some vets in the secondary to a core group of brian dawkins, champ bailey, jamal williams, and DJ and doom, and i really feel there's good reason to think this could be the best defense we've had in a long time. . .

lot of older guys, but they can all still play, and that combination of pride, grit and savvy goes a long way. . . too many guys who've played on too many good defenses for me to think they're not going to handle their business. . .

the offense will probably be ugly until some of the new kids can get up to speed, but going forward, a good offensive line and a quarterback who can make things happen on broken plays and scrambles are two things that go really well with a rugged defense-- add in a strong running game, and think about the titans team that lost the super bowl to the rams. . . it's a sound model, and one with the potential to be better if players like tebow, thomas, royal and decker realize their full potential. . . if it plays out that way, great-- if not, mcdaniels will probably be gone in a couple years, and there's certainly no guarantee that another coach/front office combo would have done any better or worse. . .

i feel your pain to an extent, but i hope once the seaso gets rolling you'll tune in and find some reasons to re-evaluate. . . i don't imagine you'll ever care for the feller, but i'd like to see the results be good enugh that you can't argue with 'em. . . :D

[/giganticramble]

BroncoWave
07-25-2010, 07:11 PM
Please reread what I wrote, for accuracy this time, and don't make up your own version to then skewer. TIA

I don't really think you want him to fail, I was just giving you crap. I stand by the rest of my post though.

Bosco
07-25-2010, 07:26 PM
McDaniels was calling plays in 2003 and 2004 when Charlie Weis was still the offensive coordiantor? Ah no.

Ben Watson was a rookie in 2004.

WARHORSE
07-25-2010, 08:47 PM
Sure, your entitled to an opinion mon. :beer:




:beer:


Thank you.

I feel ...................entitled. ;)

WARHORSE
07-25-2010, 08:56 PM
Carol, I think its because - at least in my case - I simply reject the interpretation that the guys we got rid of were any less "Team" players than the ones he acquired. Its nonsense on stilts, frankly. They are more McDaniels guys, sure - but more "team" players? Rubbish. Total revisionism, or rather some of these guys get falsely label as "selfish" for the supposed crime of being dumped from the roster by a coach a lot of fans have invested emotionally in, and probably for good reason. I ain't buying it myself for a second, and I think its why I remain a disgruntled and pissed off fan. Loyalty from fans should extend to some extent to ex-Broncos IMO.

Exceptions should be made for proven turds like Eddie Kennison, Travis Henry, and Dale Carter of course :D


View the tape of Marshall punting the ball instead of handing it to the ball boy.

View the tape of Marshall slapping balls to the ground.

View the tape of Marshall walking while the rest of his 'teamates' were jogging.


Not any less a team player? Im sorry.


I disagree.


Scheffler? Cutler?

Those guys were under contract.


They signed, then wanted out, and when you have to run your mouth off on the sidelines towards undermining the will of the team, you are not thinking of the team, but yourself. Scheffler could have waited until the games were over, and then spoke his desire to the coach.


Cutler? He had one agenda: His own.



Can they end up being team players in the future? Sure.

As long as the going is peachy keen.


Soon as adversity comes, these three are every man for himself.

WARHORSE
07-25-2010, 08:59 PM
i've never pretended that i have any idea why he didn't like hillis-- still baffles me to be honest with you, but i've decided there's no point worrying about it. . .

[/giganticramble]


Honestly, I think Hillis had problems and has problems with the mental side of the game.

He struggled early on staying in Shannys offense too.


Hillis.....Lord help me cause I love the guy......I believe had a problem digesting Josh' offense.

Bosco
07-25-2010, 09:48 PM
Oh, and you mentioned Hillis...the guy was a total class act and consummate team player - and he got shafted anyways. Why? Good friggin question, ain't it? Sure didn't have to do with attitude though, and more proof to me that the existing 2009 roster was not being graded objectively, and that speaks badly to McDaniels character. Hillis played himself out of a spot, just like he did in 2008 when Mike Shanahan was still here.

The guy is immensely talented and a decent person (though not the Saint you seem to believe) but he has a serious lack of football intelligence. That's the mean reason why he lasted until the 7th round.

He very well may turn out to be a good player, but he's going to need a seriously stripped down role that is slowly expanded upon.

nevcraw
07-25-2010, 09:58 PM
Hillis played himself out of a spot, just like he did in 2008 when Mike Shanahan was still here.

The guy is immensely talented and a decent person (though not the Saint you seem to believe) but he has a serious lack of football intelligence. That's the mean reason why he lasted until the 7th round.

He very well may turn out to be a good player, but he's going to need a seriously stripped down role that is slowly expanded upon.

I never realized that ripping the hammy off the bone was "playing himself out of a job". what a dumbass he was for that.

what's your insider info Bosco? & how much time have you spent breaking down anyone's football intel, let alone Hillis?

TXBRONC
07-25-2010, 10:24 PM
I never realized that ripping the hammy off the bone was "playing himself out of a job". what a dumbass he was for that.

what's your insider info Bosco? & how much time have you spent breaking down anyone's football intel, let alone Hillis?

Larsen started three games in his rookie season so no Hillis didn't play himself out of a job.

Dreadnought
07-25-2010, 11:04 PM
I never realized that ripping the hammy off the bone was "playing himself out of a job". what a dumbass he was for that.

what's your insider info Bosco? & how much time have you spent breaking down anyone's football intel, let alone Hillis?

Hung onto the ball on that play, too. Remarkable

Lonestar
07-25-2010, 11:08 PM
Originally Posted by dogfish View Post
i've never pretended that i have any idea why he didn't like hillis-- still baffles me to be honest with you, but i've decided there's no point worrying about it. . .

I had heard that in Mike's regime Booby T was responsible to give the RB's reps in practice and that he did not particularly like Hillis. did not get reps not reps in practice, no game.

I also heard that he was overly football "bright" had issues with understanding the playbook.

although he did real well in 08 kinda because he was the last man standing and by then he had basic idea of the playbook he got to play.

in comes a new playbook and Bobby T was still in charge of telling the man who was ready and who was not.

Whether is ANY truth to that I do not know but it makes more sense to me than Josh being a dumb shit.


Honestly, I think Hillis had problems and has problems with the mental side of the game.

He struggled early on staying in Shannys offense too.


Hillis.....Lord help me cause I love the guy......I believe had a problem digesting Josh' offense.

see above.


View the tape of Marshall punting the ball instead of handing it to the ball boy.

View the tape of Marshall slapping balls to the ground.

View the tape of Marshall walking while the rest of his 'teamates' were jogging.


Not any less a team player? Im sorry.


I disagree.


Scheffler? Cutler?

Those guys were under contract.


They signed, then wanted out, and when you have to run your mouth off on the sidelines towards undermining the will of the team, you are not thinking of the team, but yourself. Scheffler could have waited until the games were over, and then spoke his desire to the coach.


Cutler? He had one agenda: His own.



Can they end up being team players in the future? Sure.

As long as the going is peachy keen.


Soon as adversity comes, these three are every man for himself.


good post I'm glad to know that I'm not the only one to see they were ME players looking for their own glory and stats.

you also forgot the night club incident spraying champagne on people well how else can you say LOOK at ME.

then there was the incident in the end zone with Stokely having to save the day when he wanted to display the black and white glove he had in his crotch.

You also forgot the it is to cold and it hurts my lungs.

then being well enough to play in the pro bowl BOTH years but not to play in the last game of the year 09 and missed OTAs IIRC every year he was with the team.

ME and not TEAM their are more incidents the DUI and telling the cop he hated it in DEN and could not wait to get out of here.

the guy had game but when not on the field under lock and key well Goodells best friend.

Tned
07-25-2010, 11:20 PM
I had heard that in Mike's regime Booby T was responsible to give the RB's reps in practice and that he did not particularly like Hillis. did not get reps not reps in practice, no game.

I also heard that he was overly football "bright" had issues with understanding the playbook.

although he did real well in 08 kinda because he was the last man standing and by then he had basic idea of the playbook he got to play.

in comes a new playbook and Bobby T was still in charge of telling the man who was ready and who was not.

Whether is ANY truth to that I do not know but it makes more sense to me than Josh being a dumb shit.


I've only read you and a couple other posters write about him not being football smart (I think some have used terms like dumb as a brick or something like that). Can you share with us where you have heard this about him? Where/how you came to the conclusion that he wasn't football bright and couldn't understand the playbook?

Lonestar
07-25-2010, 11:35 PM
I've only read you and a couple other posters write about him not being football smart (I think some have used terms like dumb as a brick or something like that). Can you share with us where you have heard this about him? Where/how you came to the conclusion that he wasn't football bright and couldn't understand the playbook?

saw it in an article back during his rookie season a DEN paper I think that he was not uber smart and he was struggling with the playbook.

That was one of the reasons he was not getting reps in practice.

Might have been one of the mailbag article as I seem to remember someone asking about him and that being the answer.

At the time it sounded as good as he must have patted mikes wife on the ass. there seemed to be NO logical reason that he was not playing.

Bosco
07-26-2010, 12:26 AM
I never realized that ripping the hammy off the bone was "playing himself out of a job". what a dumbass he was for that.

He played himself out of a job early in the year. He began the year as our starting fullback but lost that spot to Spencer Larsen who had completely replaced him by the Bucs game IIRC. He got 4 touches against Oakland, and then not again until week 9 when our running back corps was was already seriously depleted.

Long story short, Shanahan benched him in short order and didn't use him again until he really didn't have any other choice.


what's your insider info Bosco? & how much time have you spent breaking down anyone's football intel, let alone Hillis? None of my "inside sources" were required to gain that knowledge. It's been pretty well documented.

From Mile High Report - http://www.milehighreport.com/2009/2/4/744720/hillis-the-hammer-in-2009


Hillis was benched early in the 2008 season. We later learned from Cutler that there was a perception that Hillis had a concentration problem at first and it was seen as lacking a ‘keep your head in the game' approach.

Peyton's SIGMA test results - (link is no longer active)


Hillis’s SIGMA test results raise several concerns. The approach he took to learning and preparation in college produced a personal belief that he was not able to consistently execute his responsibilities in games. There are strong indications that he needs to take more personal responsibility for learning what he needs to know. His coaches should make him execute, again and again, his responsibilities in game-like time constraints. During the off-season, pre-season, and practice, he will sometimes give less than his best effort and will let up when he sees an opportunity to do so. As a result, Hillis has not always been able to meet the challenges placed in front of him by his coaches. There were times when Hillis thought he came up short of meeting his own and his coaches’ expectations. He will be concerned about the kind of system he may be placed in and whether he can be successful and meet everyone’s requirements and demands. Hillis will tend to worry that he is not as prepared as he should be going into games. This self-doubt does not speak well for his chances of advancing and mastering his position requirements at the next level. Hillis is usually content to rely heavily on his natural abilities to get by and believes that his past coaches have had little impact on his performance. He thinks that he knows best and is less likely to listen to coaches’ advice and instructions and instead will try to play the game his own way. When things are not going well for him, Hillis will be openly critical and question his coaches and his teammates.

NFL Draft Scout also spoke of his tendency to self destruct - http://www.cbssports.com/nfl/draft/players/historical/523458


Needs to play with better confidence (will get into a bit of a funk after a bad play) …

Elevation inc
07-26-2010, 12:31 AM
I never realized that ripping the hammy off the bone was "playing himself out of a job". what a dumbass he was for that.

what's your insider info Bosco? & how much time have you spent breaking down anyone's football intel, let alone Hillis?

i pretty sure he meant before that, for many of you that dont remember.....hillis lack of understanding his role and the mental aspect of the game is what lead to spencer larsen switching to FB and hillis being 5th rb on the depth chart....in 2008 7 Rb's had to go down before hillis got a shot, there is a reason for that and it wasnt his hammy.......

i like hillis and was happy with his physicality, but i would be a idiot if i cant realize why he isnt here anymore......he doesnt do well with schemes or the mental aspect of the game.....thats fact not speculation......its also why alot of plays during 2008 when he started went from ZBs runs and more complex formations to dive left dive right with hillis....its simple and works for him....

he should do just fine in clevland where the offense is much simpler.....he will simply be a short yardage guy.....im almost certain he didnt play here, becasue he didnt know what he was doing on the field in this scheme.....

BroncoWave
07-26-2010, 12:47 AM
Another funny thing is that some people claim McD got rid of players like Cutler, Marshall, Scheff, and Hillis because they were Shanny guys and his ego was so big he had to win with his own guys, but look at the 2 biggest contract extensions he has given out: Chris Kuper and Elvis Dumervil. Now correct me if I'm wrong, but I'm pretty sure that BOTH of those guys were drafted by Shanny. Kinda blows that theory.

Maybe, just MAYBE, McDaniels wants to have guys on the team (regardless of who drafted them) who WANT to be Broncos and who want to be part of a TEAM and win football games, not guys who are all about themselves and distractions/cancers to the team.

Nah, that just makes too much sense! It's much more likely that he just hates winning and wants to rid the Broncos of their best players. That makes WAY more sense!

LRtagger
07-26-2010, 09:05 AM
Although on the surface im sure it looks like McD HAD to pay Doom but the reality McD really doesnt care what anyone else thinks as he has proven that time and time again. He's just far to arrogant to worry about outside influence. I believe that Doom got paid because he believes the kid is worth the money and is a good soja for him.

Call me crazy, but I wouldn't want my coach making decisions to appease the masses and media. I want him building a team his way; not in a way to get approval articles from Kizla, Paige, etc.

If that is qualification for arrogance, then whatever.

This article is dumb anyways. We just signed Kuper to a huge extension several weeks ago. We skipped on drama Dez in favor of Thomas. I think its clearly evident that McDaniels will stand behind the team first players that work hard. The Doom signing only solidifies that sentiment, it doesn't prove it.

Lonestar
07-26-2010, 10:38 AM
Another funny thing is that some people claim McD got rid of players like Cutler, Marshall, Scheff, and Hillis because they were Shanny guys and his ego was so big he had to win with his own guys, but look at the 2 biggest contract extensions he has given out: Chris Kuper and Elvis Dumervil. Now correct me if I'm wrong, but I'm pretty sure that BOTH of those guys were drafted by Shanny. Kinda blows that theory.

Maybe, just MAYBE, McDaniels wants to have guys on the team (regardless of who drafted them) who WANT to be Broncos and who want to be part of a TEAM and win football games, not guys who are all about themselves and distractions/cancers to the team.

Nah, that just makes too much sense! It's much more likely that he just hates winning and wants to rid the Broncos of their best players. That makes WAY more sense!

Well that should put that theory to bed.

Great post.

But then WHY would anyone want a TEAM?

Playing a TEAM game.
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