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Denver Native (Carol)
07-24-2010, 10:18 AM
http://www.denverpost.com/broncos/ci_15590578

"Just waiting for my opportunity to make more catches."

The resume is there — playoff games, Super Bowl, the catches, the yards, the testimonials from the likes of Bill Belichick about the way he plays.

But in eight previous seasons in the NFL, Jabar Gaffney never has led his team in catches, or receiving yards. He may finally be in position to change all that. With Brandon Marshall taking his off-the-field baggage and three 100-catch seasons to Miami, the Broncos are a team with an opening for a go-to guy in the offense.

"I'm looking at it the way I've always looked at it, going in like I was the No. 1," Gaffney said. "Just waiting for my opportunity to make more catches, have more impact, more chances to make more plays.

"I'm a team-first guy; that's what keeps me around. So you just embrace the opportunities you have. If it happens to be more catches, more opportunities, more balls coming your way, then you try to make the best of it and be ready for it."

Gaffney isn't the biggest receiver on the Broncos' roster, and he isn't the fastest, but if knowledge is power, he may be the most powerful.

He played in Josh McDaniels' offense in New England before he arrived in Denver last year, and he is proficient at as many as five wide receiver spots, depending on how deep the coaches go into the playbook to open up the formation.

"(Gaffney's) always where you need him to be and where you expect him to be," Broncos quarterback Kyle Orton said. "And he does that at every spot. As a quarterback, if you know what you're getting from a receiver, that's always going to help."

Belichick, renowned for tossing praise around like anvils, once described Gaffney as "a tactician." He is a player who can beat you with his head as well as his feet and hands.

When Marshall was benched by McDaniels for the 2009 season finale, it was Gaffney who was Orton's leading target in the ill-fated season-ending loss to the Chiefs. In a game when the Broncos elected to throw the ball 56 times against the league's 31st-ranked run defense, it was Gaffney who finished with 14 catches for 213 yards.

"I'm always working hard with my route running, doing all of the extra stuff that would help me at the receiver position," Gaffney said. "I love getting my routes down and getting as close to perfect as I can. If I drop a pass, I think I need to stay out there extra and do what it takes not to drop another one.

"Coach Belichick always preached 'the more you can do.' So, the more you can do to help the team the more, you're going to be on the field."

But in the years before Belichick, it was Gaffney's father, Derrick, a wide receiver who played in 100 games in his eight seasons with the New York Jets, who sent Jabar into the football world with the idea that the more places on the field he could play the more times he would find himself in the lineup.

"He was a real technician, a good route runner, and the way he said he never dropped passes, that's what I took from him," Gaffney said, laughing.

When Jabar was finishing up his career at Florida, he often spent his final minutes of each day in bed, tossing a ball toward the ceiling. He would catch 50 with each hand, 50 with his right hand only, 50 with his left hand only, 50 with his left eye open and 50 with his right eye open.

Day in, day out, it was the routine, because someday he believed he might catch the pass that would mean the difference.

"I still think that way, go out there and contribute any way you can, with or without the ball," Gaffney said. "I still do all that sometimes when I can't sleep. But now, I'm older, maybe I only get to 15, you know. I just want to help us win. The rest will take care of itself."

Steady receiver

Broncos wide receiver Jabar Gaffney had career highs in catches and yards receiving last season, largely because he could play any of the team's wide receiver spots in the offense:

Year No. Yds. TDs
2002 41 483 1
2003 34 402 2
2004 41 632 2
2005 55 492 2
2006 11 142 1
2007 36 449 5
2008 38 468 2
2009* 54 732 2

* First season with the Broncos

Lonestar
07-25-2010, 12:19 PM
Good article. Surprised that some one has not commented on it yet.
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Tned
07-25-2010, 12:23 PM
Good article. Surprised that some one has not commented on it yet.
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Probably because Gaffney only had a couple good games last year and most of us are hoping we are not going to have to rely on him as the number one receiver.

Lonestar
07-25-2010, 12:37 PM
That is BAD?

Probaly the only reason he had a few games is now in MIA. Hard to shine with BM all over the place.
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Tned
07-25-2010, 12:41 PM
That is BAD?

Probaly the only reason he had a few games is now in MIA. Hard to shine with BM all over the place.
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He and the other WR's have a lot of production to replace. Hopefully, they are up to the task.

NorCalBronco7
07-25-2010, 12:51 PM
Gaffney is a respectable player and dude.

But as a #1 WR he scares me a bit. Sure he blew up the chiefs. B Blowers is no joke either. But, Im fairly confident to say Gaffney cannot be an impact player on most #1 CBs. I understand McDaniels mixes up WR positions all the time to create mismatches, and there may be little emphasis on the #1 according to him, but seeing how targeted Marshall was last year, I believe especially will Orton under center the #1 is infact vital and will still get an ass load of targets.

Thomas needs to step up right away as the #1 for Orton to have anything that resembles his stats of last year. The Broncos have to be currently searching for that #1, with the deck stacked in favor of Thomas, then Gaffney.

Slick
07-25-2010, 12:55 PM
I started to warm up to Gaffney a little last year. I am pulling for him.

...and if it is true what´s been said about him, being a heady, cerebral player, I welcome that influence on our young receivers.

Tned
07-25-2010, 12:56 PM
Gaffney is a respectable player and dude.

But as a #1 WR he scares me a bit. Sure he blew up the chiefs. B Blowers is no joke either. But, Im fairly confident to say Gaffney cannot be an impact player on most #1 CBs. I understand McDaniels mixes up WR positions all the time to create mismatches, and there may be little emphasis on the #1 according to him, but seeing how targeted Marshall was last year, I believe especially will Orton under center the #1 is infact vital and will still get an ass load of targets.

Thomas needs to step up right away as the #1 for Orton to have anything that resembles his stats of last year. The Broncos have to be currently searching for that #1, with the deck stacked in favor of Thomas, then Gaffney.

Early last year we saw the result of McD's rotating number one, where he sat Marshall a bunch, and was playing Gaffney as number one. The offense sputtered. In the second or third game, McD pulled Marshall for the entire second quarter and the offense couldn't do anything. At the half, they put Marshall back in, and both as a receiver and runner, Marshall made plays.

Accept for the KC game, and one other game late, Gaffney played like a 3rd or 4th WR, even when he was lined up as the number 1 WR so often early in the year.

NorCalBronco7
07-25-2010, 01:09 PM
Early last year we saw the result of McD's rotating number one, where he sat Marshall a bunch, and was playing Gaffney as number one. The offense sputtered. In the second or third game, McD pulled Marshall for the entire second quarter and the offense couldn't do anything. At the half, they put Marshall back in, and both as a receiver and runner, Marshall made plays.

Accept for the KC game, and one other game late, Gaffney played like a 3rd or 4th WR, even when he was lined up as the number 1 WR so often early in the year.

I suppose if McDaniels is infact an "offensive genius", the WR positions should fair well. I just dont want to minimize the consistent role Marshall played in his offense. Losing a blue-chip player like BM seems costly and unless someone steps up, the offense will sputter as you say. Our WR situation is unproven accompanied with vertern talent that has never be heavly relied on. Scary. We'll see what McDaniels really got in terms of coaching this year.

Northman
07-25-2010, 01:11 PM
I suppose if McDaniels is infact an "offensive genius", the WR positions should fair well. I just dont want to minimize the consistent role Marshall played in his offense. Losing a blue-chip player like BM seems costly and unless someone steps up, the offense will sputter as you say. Our WR situation is unproven accompanied with vertern talent that has never be heavly relied on. Scary. We'll see what McDaniels really got in terms of coaching this year.

Without a doubt.

Dreadnought
07-25-2010, 01:25 PM
I suppose if McDaniels is infact an "offensive genius", the WR positions should fair well. I just dont want to minimize the consistent role Marshall played in his offense. Losing a blue-chip player like BM seems costly and unless someone steps up, the offense will sputter as you say. Our WR situation is unproven accompanied with vertern talent that has never be heavly relied on. Scary. We'll see what McDaniels really got in terms of coaching this year.

I think the over targeting of Marshall was lethal to ourselves last year, and I'm not sure if the fault for that target lock is more on McDaniels or Orton, but it has to be one of those two. Then, as Tned asserted, whem BMarsh was out of the game we were absolutely friggin' lost. About the only time we used another receiver effectively was when Scheffler destroyed the Chargers in the first game, but we forgot about him quickly enough after that. I am sure Gaffney is not B-Marsh so far as skills and athleticism go, so if there isn't a pretty drastic rewrite of the offense we saw last year our attempting to replicate it will lead to even worse results for 2010.

There - thats my ray o' sunshine for the day.

TXBRONC
07-25-2010, 02:41 PM
Gaffney is a respectable player and dude.

But as a #1 WR he scares me a bit. Sure he blew up the chiefs. B Blowers is no joke either. But, Im fairly confident to say Gaffney cannot be an impact player on most #1 CBs. I understand McDaniels mixes up WR positions all the time to create mismatches, and there may be little emphasis on the #1 according to him, but seeing how targeted Marshall was last year, I believe especially will Orton under center the #1 is infact vital and will still get an ass load of targets.

Thomas needs to step up right away as the #1 for Orton to have anything that resembles his stats of last year. The Broncos have to be currently searching for that #1, with the deck stacked in favor of Thomas, then Gaffney.

Some people have said Gaffney in there to replace Marshall that not accurate. Whether Gaffney is suppose to replace all of Marshall's production or just some portion of he's being called upon to replace some portion of void created by Marshall's departure. Imo the bigger issue is replacing point production.

Bosco
07-25-2010, 03:06 PM
I suppose if McDaniels is infact an "offensive genius", the WR positions should fair well. I just dont want to minimize the consistent role Marshall played in his offense. Losing a blue-chip player like BM seems costly and unless someone steps up, the offense will sputter as you say. Our WR situation is unproven accompanied with vertern talent that has never be heavly relied on. Scary. We'll see what McDaniels really got in terms of coaching this year.

I don't think alot of people truly understand how radically McDaniels had to modify his offense to fit Marshall. Just getting back to using the X and Z receivers as his primaries should be a big boost.

Tned
07-25-2010, 03:44 PM
I don't think alot of people truly understand how radically McDaniels had to modify his offense to fit Marshall. Just getting back to using the X and Z receivers as his primaries should be a big boost.

If that's the case, how come the passing game was so ineffective in the first couple games when he was hardly using Marshall? When he claimed he had many number one receivers?

topscribe
07-25-2010, 04:03 PM
If that's the case, how come the passing game was so ineffective in the first couple games when he was hardly using Marshall? When he claimed he had many number one receivers?

Without reading through the thread, I'm assuming you're talking about the first
couple games of the season? If so, I don't believe that is a good example. After
all, over the first couple games, Orton was still healing from a compound
dislocation of the guiding finger to his throwing hand, the entire offense was
still trying to internalize a new system and playbook, and they were all trying
to get used to each other.

That is not to diminish Marshall's talents - he is a rare breed who can step into
an unfamiliar system and put up numbers simply because he is so immensely
talented.

But to implement the "committee" approach is far more complex, and I can see
how so much more must be working together at one time.

-----

Tned
07-25-2010, 04:06 PM
Without reading through the thread, I'm assuming you're talking about the first
couple games of the season? If so, I don't believe that is a good example. After
all, over the first couple games, Orton was still healing from a compound
dislocation of the guiding finger to his throwing hand, the entire offense was
still trying to internalize a new system and playbook, and they were all trying
to get used to each other.

That is not to diminish Marshall's talents - he is a rare breed who can step into
an unfamiliar system and put up numbers simply because he is so immensely
talented.

But to implement the "committee" approach is far more complex, and I can see
how so much more must be working together at one time.

-----

Clearly Orton wasn't the problem since when Marshall was in the game the offense produced, when Marshall was out, the offense didn't.

topscribe
07-25-2010, 04:10 PM
Clearly Orton wasn't the problem since when Marshall was in the game the offense produced, when Marshall was out, the offense didn't.

I'm not saying Orton was or was not the problem. I was hoping no one would
make the mistake that I'm making this into a thread about Orton. (Not that
you are: I just don't want it to drift that way.)

Orton was only a factor. But again, Marshall was the type of receiver who
could go after a not-so-accurate pass and outfight the defender for it. With
the others, the window shrinks because they do not have that size or those
talents.

Other than that, I really was offering several factors that existed at the same
time - a lot of little things can combine into one big thing . . .

-----

TXBRONC
07-25-2010, 04:21 PM
I'm not saying Orton was or was not the problem. I was hoping no one would
make the mistake that I'm making this into a thread about Orton. (Not that
you are: I just don't want it to drift that way.)

Orton was only a factor. But again, Marshall was the type of receiver who
could go after a not-so-accurate pass and outfight the defender for it. With
the others, the window shrinks because they do not have that size or those
talents.

Other than that, I really was offering several factors that existed at the same
time - a lot of little things can combine into one big thing . . .

-----

Orton finger wasn't an issue.

topscribe
07-25-2010, 04:22 PM
Orton finger wasn't an issue.

Oh brother. :rolleyes:

Okay, so this is now a thread about Orton.

I'm outta here . . .

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BroncoWave
07-25-2010, 07:31 PM
I really like Gaffney. I think there are worse things in the world than him being our #1 WR. No he's not a gamechanger but I think he can do just fine in that role of DT doesn't claim it early on.

Tned
07-25-2010, 07:41 PM
I really like Gaffney. I think there are worse things in the world than him being our #1 WR. No he's not a gamechanger but I think he can do just fine in that role of DT doesn't claim it early on.

Yep, lot's of worse things in the world, such as nuclear war, genocide, rape, murder, etc. However, from a football fan perspective, he hasn't done much to inspire confidence in his being capable of being a number one.

Now, I did say 'much', because we did have those last two games last season. Nearly half of his receptions and a third of his yards came in the last two games. Were they an anomoly, or proof of him breaking out after a forgettable eight years in the NFL?

I hope they were an example of him breaking out, but I wouldn't want to bet much dough on it.

TXBRONC
07-25-2010, 07:56 PM
Oh brother. :rolleyes:

Okay, so this is now a thread about Orton.

I'm outta here . . .

-----

:wave:

TXBRONC
07-25-2010, 08:00 PM
Yep, lot's of worse things in the world, such as nuclear war, genocide, rape, murder, etc. However, from a football fan perspective, he hasn't done much to inspire confidence in his being capable of being a number one.

Now, I did say 'much', because we did have those last two games last season. Nearly half of his receptions and a third of his yards came in the last two games. Were they an anomoly, or proof of him breaking out after a forgettable eight years in the NFL?

I hope they were an example of him breaking out, but I wouldn't want to bet much dough on it.

Even with the extra yards he still managed to put only two touchdowns which pretty much what he has done through out his career.

topscribe
07-25-2010, 10:37 PM
I really like Gaffney. I think there are worse things in the world than him being our #1 WR. No he's not a gamechanger but I think he can do just fine in that role of DT doesn't claim it early on.

Well, he certainly proved capable when they turned to him . . .

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Tned
07-25-2010, 10:41 PM
Well, he certainly proved capable when they turned to him . . .

-----

When they turned to him early in the year or when they turned to him late in the year???

It's important to remember at this point in his career he is a journeyman veteran who has never been an impact player. While it's possible that it will happen with the Broncos, in his ninth year, the odds are against that being the case.

topscribe
07-25-2010, 10:48 PM
When they turned to him early in the year or when they turned to him late in the year???

It's important to remember at this point in his career he is a journeyman veteran who has never been an impact player. While it's possible that it will happen with the Broncos, in his ninth year, the odds are against that being the case.

I never accused Gaffney of being an "impact player." But he proved capable all
year. Does a game come to mind when he showed he was incapable?

-----

Lonestar
07-25-2010, 11:11 PM
When they turned to him early in the year or when they turned to him late in the year???

It's important to remember at this point in his career he is a journeyman veteran who has never been an impact player. While it's possible that it will happen with the Broncos, in his ninth year, the odds are against that being the case.

IIRC Eddie MAC was less than a journeyman WR until he got to DEN later in his career.

Tned
07-25-2010, 11:16 PM
IIRC Eddie MAC was less than a journeyman WR until he got to DEN later in his career.

Might want to recall again. McCaffrey was in his fourth or fifth year in the league when he joined the Broncos, not his eighth. Since they talk about how WR's are one of the slowest positions to develop and typically it takes 2-3 years to become productive in the NFL, McCaffrey was just slightly beyond that. There is no question that the Giants wrote him off and released him, but it isn't exactly a parallel to Gaffney.


I never accused Gaffney of being an "impact player." But he proved capable all
year. Does a game come to mind when he showed he was incapable?

-----

Capable of what? Not falling down? I'm not sure what the question is.

As to impact player, the discussion was about him possibly being the number one WR. If you are the number one WR, you need to be an impact player. If you are the third WR, then capable is probably fine.

TXBRONC
07-25-2010, 11:22 PM
IIRC Eddie MAC was less than a journeyman WR until he got to DEN later in his career.

McCaffery also didn't have journeyman quarterback throwing to him when came to Denver.

Bosco
07-25-2010, 11:26 PM
If that's the case, how come the passing game was so ineffective in the first couple games when he was hardly using Marshall? When he claimed he had many number one receivers?

Besides what Topscribe already mentioned, how about the fact that we still weren't running the offense properly because we were using our Z receiver as the X, the replacement Z receiver wasn't doing a whole lot and the Y receiver was trying to pick up the slack wherever he could.

Not really a recipe for success there.

Once Marshall was up to speed, we could at least run the passing game through him. It was far less than optimal but because of his talent, it was at least doable.

Anyways, drafting Demaryius Thomas and moving Eddie Royal back to the Z spot was done to remedy that problem. Gaffney might start the year as the de facto #1 receiver simply because he's played in this offense for years, but barring some kind of setback, he won't finish the year that way.

Lonestar
07-25-2010, 11:29 PM
Might want to recall again. McCaffrey was in his fourth or fifth year in the league when he joined the Broncos, not his eighth. Since they talk about how WR's are one of the slowest positions to develop and typically it takes 2-3 years to become productive in the NFL, McCaffrey was just slightly beyond that. There is no question that the Giants wrote him off and released him, but it isn't exactly a parallel to Gaffney.



Capable of what? Not falling down? I'm not sure what the question is.

As to impact player, the discussion was about him possibly being the number one WR. If you are the number one WR, you need to be an impact player. If you are the third WR, then capable is probably fine.


I stand corrected I had remembered him being with the giants and 9ers knew he was in the league 12 years or so but had thought 01 was his last year after the leg injury the night before 911.

did the math in my head and came up with 6-7 years. which was close enough for me at the time.

Bosco
07-25-2010, 11:38 PM
Orton finger wasn't an issue.

Have you ever attempted to throw a NFL size football with a dislocated finger covered by a glove on your throwing hand, in any organized and competitive event, much less in the NFL?

If you haven't...and I'm guessing that's the case since no one who had would make such an ignorant statement...then you should probably just refrain from commenting on an issue you have no idea about.

I actually have a faint idea of what Orton was going through as I have personally tried to play quarterback in a semi-organized flag football game with a finger I had slammed in a car door a couple days before,. Not only was throwing the ball extremely painful, it was damn near impossible to get a proper spiral or accurately place the pass outside of about 15 yards. By the time we were finished with our first possession I had to let someone else take over because I just couldn't get it done.

topscribe
07-25-2010, 11:56 PM
Might want to recall again. McCaffrey was in his fourth or fifth year in the league when he joined the Broncos, not his eighth. Since they talk about how WR's are one of the slowest positions to develop and typically it takes 2-3 years to become productive in the NFL, McCaffrey was just slightly beyond that. There is no question that the Giants wrote him off and released him, but it isn't exactly a parallel to Gaffney.



Capable of what? Not falling down? I'm not sure what the question is.

As to impact player, the discussion was about him possibly being the number one WR. If you are the number one WR, you need to be an impact player. If you are the third WR, then capable is probably fine.

If there is a proven "impact player" presently on the squad, then I understand
your comment. I don't know of one, however. Do you? It looks to me as if
Gaffney is the #1 among the remaining players. We don't really have a choice,
do we?

Regarding your remark about capable of "not falling down," I didn't think that I
would have to elaborate on "capable," that you would automatically know what
I meant by it. I would expect that from some of the posters on the board, but
not from you. You are usually a bit more objective than that.

I know you are just back from a long trip. Do you need some rest?

-----

tomjonesrocks
07-26-2010, 12:13 AM
I look for 700-800 yards out of him this year.

Tned
07-26-2010, 07:04 AM
If there is a proven "impact player" presently on the squad, then I understand
your comment. I don't know of one, however. Do you? It looks to me as if
Gaffney is the #1 among the remaining players. We don't really have a choice,
do we?

Regarding your remark about capable of "not falling down," I didn't think that I
would have to elaborate on "capable," that you would automatically know what
I meant by it. I would expect that from some of the posters on the board, but
not from you. You are usually a bit more objective than that.

I know you are just back from a long trip. Do you need some rest?

-----

Top, your veiled slams on me in this post are beneath you or at least should be. I don't know what the **** is wrong with some of you people that whenever a discussion doesn't go your way, you decide to go the personal/slamming route. The fact that some of the most guilty people are the ones that have the most "life experience" is the most disturbing aspect of the behavior.

Your personal digs aside, the question about what 'capable' means is legitimate. Clearly he is 'capable', since he is on an NFL roster. However, there is a big difference between being 'capable' of being a 3rd or 4th or 5th WR and being a number one WR on a team 'capable' of winning.

TXBRONC
07-26-2010, 07:39 AM
I look for 700-800 yards out of him this year.

He had 732 yards receiving this last season. I think the bigger issue is how many touchdowns will he get. For all the yardage and receptions he got in the last game of the year he didn't score once. When Marshall was traded half of Orton's touchdown passes went with him.

topscribe
07-26-2010, 11:09 AM
Top, your veiled slams on me in this post are beneath you or at least should be. I don't know what the **** is wrong with some of you people that whenever a discussion doesn't go your way, you decide to go the personal/slamming route. The fact that some of the most guilty people are the ones that have the most "life experience" is the most disturbing aspect of the behavior.

Your personal digs aside, the question about what 'capable' means is legitimate. Clearly he is 'capable', since he is on an NFL roster. However, there is a big difference between being 'capable' of being a 3rd or 4th or 5th WR and being a number one WR on a team 'capable' of winning.

I did not mean anything as a slam. Your post seemed out of character for
you, so I expressed as much because of my respect for you. Maybe I
misinterpreted your intentions in your post - but then it seems you
misinterpreted my response. I always thought a "you're better than that"
comment, while in the interest of constructive criticism, was a more
complimentary one. But maybe I just worded it badly - if I did, then I apologize
for that.

When I mentioned your trip and getting rest from it, I was sincerely
concerned. Do you recall the PMs I sent to you, saying I hope you were safe
and enjoying your trip? Would that not be a sign of my intentions here?

You said in your MHS to me that I should be ashamed of myself. No, I can't
be ashamed of myself for the way you responded. I can examine what I said
and maybe figure out how I could have said it better. But I can't be ashamed
of myself for good intentions, and that is all they were. :noidea:


I will say, however, that this post of yours was plenty personal. So, at the very
least, I hope you consider us even now . . .

-----

arapaho2
07-26-2010, 12:42 PM
Have you ever attempted to throw a NFL size football with a dislocated finger covered by a glove on your throwing hand, in any organized and competitive event, much less in the NFL?

If you haven't...and I'm guessing that's the case since no one who had would make such an ignorant statement...then you should probably just refrain from commenting on an issue you have no idea about.

I actually have a faint idea of what Orton was going through as I have personally tried to play quarterback in a semi-organized flag football game with a finger I had slammed in a car door a couple days before,. Not only was throwing the ball extremely painful, it was damn near impossible to get a proper spiral or accurately place the pass outside of about 15 yards. By the time we were finished with our first possession I had to let someone else take over because I just couldn't get it done.

and yet the weeks he spent with the glove were basically his best five game group of the season:confused:

weeks 1-5

62.1 com%
247.2ypg
98.% qbr
7 tds...0 ints

weeks 13-17

61.9com%
271ypg
87.1% QBR
9 tds...6 ints

topscribe
07-26-2010, 12:48 PM
and yet the weeks he spent with the glove were basically his best five game group of the season:confused:

weeks 1-5

62.1 com%
247.2ypg
98.% qbr
7 tds...0 ints

weeks 13-17

61.9com%
271ypg
87.1% QBR
9 tds...6 ints

True. But then other factors arose, such as Orton's high ankle sprain and the
running game going to hell . . .

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arapaho2
07-26-2010, 12:52 PM
True. But then other factors arose, such as Orton's high ankle sprain and the
running game going to hell . . .

-----

you mean other excuse arose? dont you:lol:

topscribe
07-26-2010, 12:56 PM
you mean other excuse arose? dont you:lol:

I was only trying to point out some factors that might be behind what developed
last year. Whether or not you want to label them "excuses," there is a reason for
everything, a cause for every effect.

But anyone who would call a high ankle sprain an "excuse" obviously does not
have a clue . . .

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TXBRONC
07-26-2010, 12:59 PM
Orton's high ankle sprain didn't cause him to throw interceptions poor decision making and an inconsistent ability to feel pressure did.

atwater27
07-26-2010, 01:00 PM
Gaffney is a mdeiocre receiver. Nothing to get excited about.

TXBRONC
07-26-2010, 01:09 PM
Gaffney is a mdeiocre receiver. Nothing to get excited about.

I think Tned has it right. Gaffney is a capable 3-5 option. This a receiver who only once in his career had more than two touchdowns for a season. He might be able to put up a descent amount receptions and yards but producing points doesn't seem to be his forte.

topscribe
07-26-2010, 01:10 PM
Orton's high ankle sprain didn't cause him to throw interceptions poor decision making and an inconsistent ability to feel pressure did.

Actually, it had a profound effect on his throws and ability to avoid pressure. The
latter - involving mobility - should not have to be explained. The best way to learn
that is to go incur a high ankle sprain then try to run on it.

Regarding passing, let me try to explain from the standpoint of all my postgraduate
hours in human anatomy and my own playing time on the field. Assuming the QB
is right-handed:

If the high ankle sprain takes place on the right side (which happened in 2008),
the passer cannot push off properly, adversely affecting his usual velocity and
accuracy.

If the high ankle sprain takes place on the left side (which happened in 2009),
the passer cannot plant his front foot for a proper follow-through, adversely
affecting his usual velocity and accuracy.

This is not to be equated to a simple ankle sprain. It is much more severe, an
injury that puts many people on crutches, let alone play football on it.

In 2008, Orton's QBR went from 91.4 before the injury to about 79, IIRC after.
In 2009, it went from 91.1 to about 86 (I don't recall the exact figure, off the
top). Both times, there was a dramatic difference.

You can deny it all you want, but that does not make it any more undebatable . . .

-----

Lonestar
07-26-2010, 01:17 PM
I was only trying to point out some factors that might be behind what developed
last year. Whether or not you want to label them "excuses," there is a reason for
everything, a cause for every effect.

But anyone who would call a high ankle sprain an "excuse" obviously does not
have a clue . . .

-----

you will never change minds on this..

there are reasons for failure that are not excuses.

Tned
07-26-2010, 01:31 PM
I did not mean anything as a slam. Your post seemed out of character for
you, so I expressed as much because of my respect for you. Maybe I
misinterpreted your intentions in your post - but then it seems you
misinterpreted my response. I always thought a "you're better than that"
comment, while in the interest of constructive criticism, was a more
complimentary one. But maybe I just worded it badly - if I did, then I apologize
for that.

When I mentioned your trip and getting rest from it, I was sincerely
concerned. Do you recall the PMs I sent to you, saying I hope you were safe
and enjoying your trip? Would that not be a sign of my intentions here?

You said in your MHS to me that I should be ashamed of myself. No, I can't
be ashamed of myself for the way you responded. I can examine what I said
and maybe figure out how I could have said it better. But I can't be ashamed
of myself for good intentions, and that is all they were. :noidea:


I will say, however, that this post of yours was plenty personal. So, at the very
least, I hope you consider us even now . . .

-----

Top, rather than me replying in kind, I would simply ask that in the future you address any MHS or other private communication, as well as your thoughts on my need for rest or naps, with me via PM or if you have an issue with something I post, please feel free to use the report feature and the mods will review it.

Thanks

topscribe
07-26-2010, 01:34 PM
you will never change minds on this..

there are reasons for failure that are not excuses.

Well, what is amazing to me is that I mentioned Orton's dislocated finger as only
one of the factors with the problems in the passing game during the first couple
games. The other factors I mentioned were team factors, not personally Orton's.
And it all led right back to this.

Wow . . . :tsk:

-----

topscribe
07-26-2010, 01:36 PM
Top, rather than me replying in kind, I would simply ask that in the future you address any MHS or other private communication, as well as your thoughts on my need for rest or naps, with me via PM or if you have an issue with something I post, please feel free to use the report feature and the mods will review it.

Thanks

Wow. My response was an apology more than anything else, Tned - a public apology.

Just wow . . . :tsk:

-----

Tned
07-26-2010, 01:40 PM
Wow. My response was an apology more than anything else, Tned - a public apology.

Just wow . . . :tsk:

-----

:lol: Ok, thanks for that clarification. Apparently apologies look MUCH different in the southwest than the mid-south where I live.

Lonestar
07-26-2010, 01:42 PM
http://www.denverpost.com/broncos/ci_15590578

"Just waiting for my opportunity to make more catches."

The resume is there — playoff games, Super Bowl, the catches, the yards, the testimonials from the likes of Bill Belichick about the way he plays.

But in eight previous seasons in the NFL, Jabar Gaffney never has led his team in catches, or receiving yards. He may finally be in position to change all that. With Brandon Marshall taking his off-the-field baggage and three 100-catch seasons to Miami, the Broncos are a team with an opening for a go-to guy in the offense.

"I'm looking at it the way I've always looked at it, going in like I was the No. 1," Gaffney said. "Just waiting for my opportunity to make more catches, have more impact, more chances to make more plays.

"I'm a team-first guy; that's what keeps me around. So you just embrace the opportunities you have. If it happens to be more catches, more opportunities, more balls coming your way, then you try to make the best of it and be ready for it."

Gaffney isn't the biggest receiver on the Broncos' roster, and he isn't the fastest, but if knowledge is power, he may be the most powerful.

He played in Josh McDaniels' offense in New England before he arrived in Denver last year, and he is proficient at as many as five wide receiver spots, depending on how deep the coaches go into the playbook to open up the formation.

"(Gaffney's) always where you need him to be and where you expect him to be," Broncos quarterback Kyle Orton said. "And he does that at every spot. As a quarterback, if you know what you're getting from a receiver, that's always going to help."

Belichick, renowned for tossing praise around like anvils, once described Gaffney as "a tactician." He is a player who can beat you with his head as well as his feet and hands.

When Marshall was benched by McDaniels for the 2009 season finale, it was Gaffney who was Orton's leading target in the ill-fated season-ending loss to the Chiefs. In a game when the Broncos elected to throw the ball 56 times against the league's 31st-ranked run defense, it was Gaffney who finished with 14 catches for 213 yards.

"I'm always working hard with my route running, doing all of the extra stuff that would help me at the receiver position," Gaffney said. "I love getting my routes down and getting as close to perfect as I can. If I drop a pass, I think I need to stay out there extra and do what it takes not to drop another one.

"Coach Belichick always preached 'the more you can do.' So, the more you can do to help the team the more, you're going to be on the field."

But in the years before Belichick, it was Gaffney's father, Derrick, a wide receiver who played in 100 games in his eight seasons with the New York Jets, who sent Jabar into the football world with the idea that the more places on the field he could play the more times he would find himself in the lineup.

"He was a real technician, a good route runner, and the way he said he never dropped passes, that's what I took from him," Gaffney said, laughing.

When Jabar was finishing up his career at Florida, he often spent his final minutes of each day in bed, tossing a ball toward the ceiling. He would catch 50 with each hand, 50 with his right hand only, 50 with his left hand only, 50 with his left eye open and 50 with his right eye open.

Day in, day out, it was the routine, because someday he believed he might catch the pass that would mean the difference.

"I still think that way, go out there and contribute any way you can, with or without the ball," Gaffney said. "I still do all that sometimes when I can't sleep. But now, I'm older, maybe I only get to 15, you know. I just want to help us win. The rest will take care of itself."

Steady receiver

Broncos wide receiver Jabar Gaffney had career highs in catches and yards receiving last season, largely because he could play any of the team's wide receiver spots in the offense:

Year No. Yds. TDs
2002 41 483 1
2003 34 402 2
2004 41 632 2
2005 55 492 2
2006 11 142 1
2007 36 449 5
2008 38 468 2
2009* 54 732 2

* First season with the Broncos


:focus:

topscribe
07-26-2010, 01:43 PM
:focus:
Thank you. http://i258.photobucket.com/albums/hh256/AZDynamics/Smilies/thdrink.gif

-----

Tned
07-26-2010, 01:45 PM
:focus:


Thank you. http://i258.photobucket.com/albums/hh256/AZDynamics/Smilies/thdrink.gif

-----

Thank you both. This will be a nice change.

WARHORSE
07-26-2010, 02:11 PM
Year No. Yds. TDs
2002 41 483 1
2003 34 402 2
2004 41 632 2
2005 55 492 2
2006 11 142 1
2007 36 449 5
2008 38 468 2
2009* 54 732 2


Look, why spin what is being said?

Gaffney is desiring to make a bigger impact. That is his mindset.

That happens to be the right mindset to have.

If he can be a bigger player for us this year, then hallelujah.

If he is simply a contributing factor to a good offense, then hallelujah.


Everyone here should be pro Gaffney.


Personally, I hope the ball will be spread around more, and there will be more running than passing.

Id rather have a TE with 45 catches, and three WRs with 60-65 catches , than one guy with 103 and another with 90 and a TE with 35.

Throw in a good chunk of RB receptions and Im good.

TXBRONC
07-26-2010, 02:13 PM
Actually, it had a profound effect on his throws and ability to avoid pressure. The
latter - involving mobility - should not have to be explained. The best way to learn
that is to go incur a high ankle sprain then try to run on it.

Regarding passing, let me try to explain from the standpoint of all my postgraduate
hours in human anatomy and my own playing time on the field. Assuming the QB
is right-handed:

If the high ankle sprain takes place on the right side (which happened in 2008),
the passer cannot push off properly, adversely affecting his usual velocity and
accuracy.

If the high ankle sprain takes place on the left side (which happened in 2009),
the passer cannot plant his front foot for a proper follow-through, adversely
affecting his usual velocity and accuracy.

This is not to be equated to a simple ankle sprain. It is much more severe, an
injury that puts many people on crutches, let alone play football on it.

In 2008, Orton's QBR went from 91.4 before the injury to about 79, IIRC after.
In 2009, it went from 91.1 to about 86 (I don't recall the exact figure, off the
top). Both times, there was a dramatic difference.

You can deny it all you want, but that does not make it any more undebatable . . .

-----

Why is that every time you don't like what other people have to say you have this impulse tell us about your mountains of post graduate hours in everything from kitchen sinks to nuclear science? It's irrelavent to me because I have both a graduate and post graduate degree with plenty of hours in human anatomy and physiology.

You're overplaying your hand. While a high ankle sprain is more serious generally speaking a person can be bearing weight on injuried ankle in about week sometimes it's little bit less sometimes it's a little bit more. I watched Orton closely after the injury and by the time the Broncos got to the Giants game on Thanksgiving night his gate look good, he didn't seem show any noticable signs of favoring the injuried ankle and seem to have no problem planting and throwing the ball.

You make all excuses you want but the bottom is this if he was that hurt and couldn't throw the ball he shouldn't been playing.

Lonestar
07-26-2010, 02:14 PM
Year No. Yds. TDs
2002 41 483 1
2003 34 402 2
2004 41 632 2
2005 55 492 2
2006 11 142 1
2007 36 449 5
2008 38 468 2
2009* 54 732 2


Look, why spin what is being said?

Gaffney is desiring to make a bigger impact. That is his mindset.

That happens to be the right mindset to have.

If he can be a bigger player for us this year, then hallelujah.

If he is simply a contributing factor to a good offense, then hallelujah.


Everyone here should be pro Gaffney.


Personally, I hope the ball will be spread around more, and there will be more running than passing.

Id rather have a TE with 45 catches, and three WRs with 60-65 catches , than one guy with 103 and another with 90 and a TE with 35.

Throw in a good chunk of RB receptions and Im good.

As for be more running that passing I doubt that will happen. as this offense is designed for crossing patterns that cofuse the D and get folks open.

The running game is to keep them off balance.

But the rest of your post is spot on.

topscribe
07-26-2010, 02:19 PM
Why is that every time you don't like what other people have to say you have this impulse tell us about your mountains of post graduate hours in everything from kitchen sinks to nuclear science? It's irrelavent to me because I have both a graduate and post graduate degree with plenty of hours in human anatomy and physiology.

You're overplaying your hand. While a high ankle sprain is more serious generally speaking a person can be bearing weight on injuried ankle in about week sometimes it's little bit less sometimes it's a little bit more. I watched Orton closely after the injury and by the time the Broncos got to the Giants game on Thanksgiving night his gate look good, he didn't seem show any noticable signs of favoring the injuried ankle and seem to have no problem planting and throwing the ball.

You make all excuses you want but the bottom is this if he was that hurt and couldn't throw the ball he shouldn't been playing.

If you don't like what I have to say, then put me on Ignore. It's a wonderful feature . . .

And once again, anyone who refers to a high ankle sprain as an "excuse" does
not have a clue.

That aside, look at his performances before the injury and after the injury. Both
years. Or just ignore them if they don't agree with your preconceived ideas.
Makes no difference to me. Your favorite topic when responding to me is myself,
anyway. I'm flattered, but it would be better to address the issue instead.


In fact, I hate these little ongoing confrontations, so I'm putting you on Ignore,
effective immediately . . .

-----

claymore
07-26-2010, 02:27 PM
I like Gaffney. Its not his fault he is our #1 WR.

topscribe
07-26-2010, 02:31 PM
I like Gaffney. Its not his fault he is our #1 WR.

Me, too. He's not BMarsh by any imaginable stretch, but he is capable. Not a
superstar, but capable.

-----

TXBRONC
07-26-2010, 02:32 PM
I like Gaffney. Its not his fault he is our #1 WR.

That is true. However the things I've brought have nothing to do with disliking him because I don't. I am concerned about expecting a journeyman receiver to be a number one.

arapaho2
07-26-2010, 04:11 PM
As for be more running that passing I doubt that will happen. as this offense is designed for crossing patterns that cofuse the D and get folks open.

The running game is to keep them off balance.

But the rest of your post is spot on.

crossing patterns?....is that what they call bubble screen left then crossing over for a bubble screen right?

Denver Native (Carol)
07-26-2010, 04:45 PM
crossing patterns?....is that what they call bubble screen left then crossing over for a bubble screen right?

Was the terminology "bubble screen" actually used by the coaches, game announcers, press, etc., or was it used by people posting on message boards

arapaho2
07-26-2010, 04:52 PM
Was the terminology "bubble screen" actually used by the coaches, game announcers, press, etc., or was it used by people posting on message boards


you know...i dont know..spose its a combination or something a player called it, to a writer first..but it was called by game announcers many times...might be terminology from when they played so i dont know if thats what the broncos call it

arapaho2
07-26-2010, 04:57 PM
taken from wiki

Screens come in all shapes and sizes. A screen to a running back (http://www.broncosforums.com/wiki/Running_back) to either the strong or short side of the field in the flats is often just called a screen. Screens to wide receivers (http://www.broncosforums.com/wiki/Wide_receiver) come in four forms: The bubble screen, middle screen, slot screen, and slip screen.
The bubble screen was essentially created by Don Read when he was coach of the Montana Grizzlies. Lou Holtz, head coach of the Notre Dame Fighting Irish, brought the play into prominence after calling Read and asking for the play. The bubble screen involves a receiver taking a step forward, then darting toward the quarterback to receive the ball while the linemen release to clear a path for the receiver. The benefit of the bubble screen is it works against zone or man coverage

Denver Native (Carol)
07-26-2010, 04:59 PM
I had no idea even what it was, and just found the following:

http://thezoneblitz.blogspot.com/2008/09/new-nfl-buzzword-bubble-screen.html

Sunday, September 21, 2008
New NFL buzzword? Bubble screen
Was it last year or the year before, everyone started using the words "Trap game?" This year's buzz word is "bubble screen." Sam Farmer of the Los Angeles Times explains:

It's a pass thrown behind the line of scrimmage to a receiver or running back who's already in an extended formation. The term "bubble" refers to the pass catcher bubbling back away from the line of scrimmage to give the quarterback a better angle to throw to him.

The goal is to have the receiver catch the ball in front of him, with his shoulders facing forward. At the same time, the receivers outside of him are blocking down the field.

The timing is crucial, because those outside receivers cannot start blocking until the ball has been caught. Otherwise, it's offensive pass interference. (Typically, officials won't call that as long as the ball has left the quarterback's hand.)

Bosco
07-26-2010, 11:36 PM
Was the terminology "bubble screen" actually used by the coaches, game announcers, press, etc., or was it used by people posting on message boards

Arapaho's link is pretty much spot on, I just want to know where this play got such a negative connotation. When done right it is very effective.

Ravage!!!
07-27-2010, 10:37 AM
Arapaho's link is pretty much spot on, I just want to know where this play got such a negative connotation. When done right it is very effective.

That can be said for every single play in the playbook of every single team.

arapaho2
07-27-2010, 10:46 AM
Arapaho's link is pretty much spot on, I just want to know where this play got such a negative connotation. When done right it is very effective.


the problem wasnt that it didnt work...it picked up a few 1st downs...i dont recall it ever springing a big one or a score though

the problem was predictability...going to the well to often...beating a dead horse...theres a old mentality in football that you run a play until they stop it...problem is THEY STOPPED IT MORE OFTEN THAN NOT AND WE KEPT RUNNING IT!!

to the point of predictabilty...that was the issue with the play

i remember games where shannys naked bootleg just shredded teams...they couldnt stop it, and we ran it and ran it....i also remember games where the naked bootleg was sniffed out and shanny quit running it for the most part...he knew it wasnt working and moved on

josh seemed fixated on throwing the bubble screen despite it not working more often than it worked