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View Full Version : Denver Broncos: Syd'Quan Thompson, Will Not Be Undermined By NFL Scouts



Jagsbch
07-21-2010, 03:24 PM
http://cdn.bleacherreport.net/images_root/images/photos/000/993/582/83035690_crop_340x234.jpg?1279737137

The 40 yard dash was a factor NFL teams such as the Dallas Cowboys started using in the early 60's to evaluate football players. The 40 yard dash was one of the many innovations Paul Brown is credited for.

Legend has it that when Brown was coaching the Ohio State Buckeyes in the 1940's, he figured that a punt traveled 40 yards, so the 40 yard dash was created to see which player could get to the punt returner the fastest.

The Raiders actually have three of the all time top ten 40 yard dash players on their team.

Here is the the NFL Combine 40 Yard Dash top ten record holders

4.24 Rondel Melendez WR 1999 Atlanta Falcons
4.24 Chris Johnson RB 2008 Tennessee Titans
4.25 Fabian Washington CB 2005 Baltimore Ravens (Drafted by Raiders)
4.25 Darrius Heyward-Bey Oakland Raiders
4.28 Champ Bailey CB 1999 Denver Broncos
4.28 Jerome Mathis WR 2005 Houston Texans
4.28 Jacoby Ford WR 2010 Oakland Raiders
4.29 Stanford Routt CB 2005 Oakland Raiders
4.29 Dominique Rodgers-Cromartie CB 2008 Arizona Cardinals

Thing we have learned 60 years later, is just how overhyped the 40 yard dash can be when it comes to evaluating players. Defenders whose experience and technique often give's them an edge on the field that can often time not be translated or computed on a track.

5'7" Maurice Jones Drew is among many many players who have undermined conventional scouting methods used to determine success at this level. How tall or short you are, how you throw the football, and even how fast you are, should never undermine the intangible that the player brings to the field of play in the form of results.

A players heart is an intangible that can virtually be impossible to compute.

"Our biggest thing was we had to get accurate information into the computer, so the more information you got the better results you got," former Cowboys personnel director Gil Brandt said.

"So we had a chart made up that if a player was X height and ran a 4.45 he'd get 40-plus points. If a player was X height and ran a 4.6, he might get 10-plus points. To me, what the [40] does is it becomes something of a tiebreaker or it's something that alerts you to a player that can be pretty good."

"I'm glad the Saints didn't put too much emphasis on my 40 when I came out," said Jack Del Rio "It's a tool. It's another thing for us to measure, grade, evaluate. I think at the end of the day you're looking for football players that produce for you on the field."

"It's been like that for years," Syracuse cornerback Tanard Jackson said. "Nothing's going to change it. But I'd still like to think the decision-makers want a football player. They want a guy with speed, especially at the position I play, but the film is the film. They want a football player."

"You can get too carried away with straight line speed because change of direction is so important in this game," said Wade Phillips. "Guys that run with their feet a little further apart, even running backs sometimes, aren't as fast but their change of direction is quicker."

Former Ohio State Buckeye linebacker Chris Spielman ran 4.85 40 coming out of college, he still managed to make it to four Pro Bowls in 10 seasons.

To put some perspective on just how slow 4.85 40 is, OT Bruce Cambell, the fourth round selection of the Oakland Raiders in the 2010 NFL draft ran a 4.85 40; this is a guy who is 6'6" and weighs 314 pounds.

"He (Spielman) was so instinctive and anticipated things," Phillips said. "A lot of times, it's the shortest distance between two points. You figure out where that point's going to be and you get there."

Speed is a premium in this league, but like anything else, you can find the "it" factor in players who lack the premium of speed.

There are players that don't have speed, but yet have allowed their heart and mind to take them to a level where a fast player may not have felt compelled to go because their talent's can often time keep them from having to strive as hard.

In the art of war adopting the strategies of sophisticated techniques to the point where they are an instinctual facet of your game, will indeed allow you to overcome stronger and faster opponent's lacking the same.

Dre' Bly was drafted in 1999, and he just signed a two year contract with the Detroit Lions. Bly has been to two Super Bowl's, he won one with the St. Louis Rams, he has also made two Pro Bowl appearances. In 2007 Denver Broncos gave Bly a $33 million contract with an $18 million in bonus money and $16 million guaranteed.

Dre' Bly runs a 4.51 40

Too often the premium of speed in this league, is substituted for phenomenal ability. That appears to be exactly the case with Syd’Quan Thompson who ran a 4.75 40 while recovering from a hamstring injury.

http://forums.denverbroncos.com/image.php?u=8818&dateline=1276350308It is another long article, the rest of it is in this link (http://bleacherreport.com/articles/423200-denver-broncos-sydquan-thompson-will-not-be-undermined-by-nfl-scouts):salute:

Lonestar
07-21-2010, 03:36 PM
you left the best stuff on the next page. :salute:

lets hope he pans out

Poet
07-21-2010, 03:36 PM
The 40 matters. You can't live and die with workout warrior stats, but knowing the physical limitations someone has is important. I think what's more important is football speed - how fast can you run, move and cut with your pads on.

Lonestar
07-21-2010, 03:43 PM
The 40 matters. You can't live and die with workout warrior stats, but knowing the physical limitations someone has is important. I think what's more important is football speed - how fast can you run, move and cut with your pads on.



your correct of course but speed is not every thing, having the innate ability to be in the right spot at the right time will overcome a lot of the "Speed factor" this is essential in the DB positions and at safety most of all.

None of our stellar safeties we have had over the years were burners but they ruled the roost so to speak for decades it was their middle of the field and trespass at your own peril.

Jagsbch
07-21-2010, 03:43 PM
Yes it matters but at the same time it is over-hyped. And when your coming off of a hamstrng injury, and reinjure it while attempting to please the scouts and coaches, well in this case it doesn't matter.

Especially when you where the man according to the scouts prior to running a 40, or getting blazed in a Senior Bowl game due to a hamstring injury...

Lonestar
07-21-2010, 03:44 PM
Yes it matters but at the same time it is over-hyped. And when your coming off of a hamstrng injury, and reinjure it while attempting to please the scouts and coaches, well in this case it doesn't matter.

Especially when you where the man according to the scouts prior to running a 40, or getting blazed in a Senior Bowl game due to a hamstring injury...

your correct BUT if this is a chronic issue his time in the NFL Not For Long is limited.

WARHORSE
07-21-2010, 04:12 PM
See: Jerry Rice 40 time.:coffee:


See: Jerry Rice....GOATime.:shocked:


See: Emmitt Smith 40 time. :coffee:


See: Emmitt Smith GOATime.:shocked:
(yardage)

Jagsbch
07-21-2010, 04:29 PM
Jerry Rice ran a 4.7 40
Emmit Smith ran a 4.8 40 at his college combine

Here is a snippet from an ESPN blog by Matt Mosley...

Yaworsky said to hell with 40-yard dash times and informed Johnson and Jerry Jones that Smith had the best vision of any running back he'd ever scouted.

I finally tracked down Yaworsky in Cleveland, Tenn., on Wednesday. He was very modest about his role in the process and kept deferring to "the talented coaches from Miami" in reference to Johnson and his staff.

"He was unique because he wasn't real tall," Yaworsky finally said after some coaxing. "I thought he was in Jimmy Brown's class from the start. He just had this peripheral vision and he seemed to know exactly where his linemen were going to be without ever having to take a peek."

Yaworsky thought Smith was the perfect type of back because most of his weight was in the lower body and he did a superb job of keeping his pad level low. Smith had an uncanny knack for making his body go limp at the moment of impact so that he never took a lot of clean shots. Old-school scouts such as Yaworsky knew that 40-yard dash times, while instructive, shouldn't define players.

Smith never ran better than a 4.5 40-yard dash, but it was his ability to change direction on a dime without losing speed that made him so special. Football isn't played on a straight line and that's why it's not a given that a 4.3 40-yard dash will translate to great rushing numbers.

I'm not even sure if Smith himself knows how much Yaworsky fought for him leading up to the draft. Time has a way of obscuring the facts and that's why you'll hear other scouts' names come up in regard to Smith. But the guys who looked at that old report know the truth. On Saturday here in Fort Lauderdale, it's pretty much a given that Smith will be voted into the Hall of Fame. He and Jerry Rice are virtual locks.

http://espn.go.com/blog/nfceast/post/_/id/10859/the-scout-who-fought-for-emmitt

Lonestar
07-21-2010, 04:34 PM
See: Jerry Rice 40 time.:coffee:


See: Jerry Rice....GOATime.:shocked:


See: Emmitt Smith 40 time. :coffee:


See: Emmitt Smith GOATime.:shocked:
(yardage)

yes but Emmitt also had an enormous OLINE everyone of them 330+ it was open holes and in many cases he was not touched until he was past the LOS.

HEll I could have run behind that OLINE.

Jerry Rice could get open could fake you out of your drawers, it only takes split second to make a catch.

Jagsbch
07-21-2010, 05:23 PM
This was a responce to PM I sent out earlier today.

I sent you a private message regarding slow CB's from an NFL insider who is also my CB guru. Enjoy!

PM...

The current crop of CB’s that are “relatively slow”, you could also include...

as “slower” CB’s that have done OK for themselves...

Asante Samuel,
Leigh Bodden,
Carlos Rogers,
Anthony Henry,
Walt Harris,
Jacques Reeves
Ryan Mouton

Now, if you want me to get historical with you, Everson Walls led the league in interceptions as a slow Cowboy rookie out of Grambling,

Dennis Thurman played CB before FS,

if I look at the Vikings from the 60’s to 70’s, Karl Kassulke, Paul Krause, Yale Lary and Ed Sharockman would not make a relay team (sorry, can’t remember who played what),

The Cardinals had Roger Wehrlie and I think Larry Wilson played CB before moving to FS,

Let’s see Aaron Beasley, Bobby Bryant, Dave Brown, Dick LeBeau, Spider Lockhart, Rick Volk . . . aw hell, let’s go way back . . . Irv Cross, Tom Brookshier, Dick Nolan, Tom Landry . . . LOL!

That was a sensational read man. Hope I did not offend anyone by posting it.

oubronco
07-21-2010, 06:49 PM
yes but Emmitt also had an enormous OLINE everyone of them 330+ it was open holes and in many cases he was not touched until he was past the LOS.

HEll I could have run behind that OLINE.

Jerry Rice could get open could fake you out of your drawers, it only takes split second to make a catch.

Put Barry Sanders behind that line and he would've set records that would never be touched

Dirk
07-22-2010, 06:23 AM
TD....4.72 40 time. :coffee:

Jagsbch
08-29-2010, 10:01 PM
Looks like somebody just made the team~!!

Jagsbch
08-29-2010, 10:08 PM
Ive got Thompson's nickname

SYD VICIOUS


:elefant:SYD VICIOUS:elefant:

Ravage!!!
08-29-2010, 10:11 PM
PLEASE .. please don't make me dislike this guy by going overboard with him as you have with Tebow.

silkamilkamonico
08-29-2010, 10:13 PM
Champ Bailey
Andre Goodman
Perrish Cox
Sydquan Thomson
Alphonso Smith
Nate Jones


Who gets cut?

Northman
08-29-2010, 10:16 PM
Champ Bailey
Andre Goodman
Perrish Cox
Sydquan Thomson
Alphonso Smith
Nate Jones


Who gets cut?

Smith, maybe Jones.

silkamilkamonico
08-29-2010, 10:20 PM
Smith, maybe Jones.

I don't think Smith should make the team either.

Ravage!!!
08-29-2010, 10:22 PM
hah.. Smith and Jones.

It SHOULD be Smith. But do we cut the guy we used a first round pick on already?

Northman
08-29-2010, 10:25 PM
hah.. Smith and Jones.

It SHOULD be Smith. But do we cut the guy we used a first round pick on already?

Most likely not. But what can he really do? He is fast and gets in position but cant tackle. He cant outdo Cox or Thompson in anything. Even Jones has looked better than him at times. I suppose if McD is going to keep him he will have to cut ties with Quinn as he is worthless as well but not worth the price that Smith came with.

HORSEPOWER 56
08-29-2010, 10:26 PM
hah.. Smith and Jones.

It SHOULD be Smith. But do we cut the guy we used a first round pick on already?

That's why you trade his worthless ass to the DB starved Ravens for whatever you can get!

Ravage!!!
08-29-2010, 10:36 PM
That's why you trade his worthless ass to the DB starved Ravens for whatever you can get!

Why would they trade for him until they find out who we are cutting? Not to mention all the others that will be cut that are already better than he is.

JDL
08-29-2010, 11:34 PM
I love how out of hand things get... I've routinely seen 4.58 for Rice and 4.6 for Davis... far more believable times... sure maybe their slow time was something different, they don't run just one time even at the combine.

The question with all of this should be whether someone is fast on the football field... if you are 5'10 170lbs and run a 4.6... you aren't likely to be very fast with pads on... if you are 5'10 220lbs and run a 4.6... you probably don't lose all that much speed.

Why they do any drills without pads on, I have no idea.

Italianmobstr7
08-30-2010, 12:19 AM
Champ Bailey
Andre Goodman
Perrish Cox
Sydquan Thomson
Alphonso Smith
Nate Jones


Who gets cut?

None of them. Jones can play S and CB. Smith looked better tonight than he had and we spent a 1st rd pick on him. That PI call was BS.

CrazyHorse
08-30-2010, 12:36 AM
Put Barry Sanders behind that line and he would've set records that would never be touched

What about Sanders's pass blocking and catching abilities? Don't forget who has the record for negative yardage either.

sneakers
08-30-2010, 05:58 AM
Really fast in the 40 = drafted by Raiders.

gobroncsnv
08-30-2010, 07:00 AM
So once again, this is interesting to me...why would a team keep a guy just because he's drafted in the first round? Afraid to be shown as having made a mistake? Isn't keeping him, but not starting him kind of the same thing, perhaps to a lesser degree? And isn't it kind of nuts to have to release a player who's better because he wasn't a 1st rounder? (is this my first "all questions" post?)

rcsodak
08-30-2010, 08:01 AM
Champ Bailey
Andre Goodman
Perrish Cox
Sydquan Thomson
Alphonso Smith
Nate Jones


Who gets cut?


None of them. Jones can play S and CB. Smith looked better tonight than he had and we spent a 1st rd pick on him. That PI call was BS.

I agree. 6db's is not too many, especially in today's pass-happy NFL.
Maybe Smith finally 'got it'? He definitely showed more than he has before. But in the same token, I have a feeling McD won't have a problem cutting Smith if he doesn't feel he'll help the team out.

Elevation inc
08-30-2010, 08:21 AM
Champ Bailey
Andre Goodman
Perrish Cox
Sydquan Thomson
Alphonso Smith
Nate Jones


Who gets cut?

no one we will keep all six...tony carter will get cut and cassius vaugn will go to the PS.........

SOCALORADO.
08-30-2010, 08:49 AM
no one we will keep all six...tony carter will get cut and cassius vaugn will go to the PS.........

That sucks if its true, cause BOTH Vaughn and Carter have outplayed Alphie.
Alphie was a mistake.

broncofaninfla
08-30-2010, 08:53 AM
As good as he looked at times last night, also notice Thompson was the little guy hanging on to the Steeler who ran for ten additional yards with Thompson in tow. He has the talent but his size makes hima laibility on defense when it comes to tackling.

Elevation inc
08-30-2010, 09:02 AM
As good as he looked at times last night, also notice Thompson was the little guy hanging on to the Steeler who ran for ten additional yards with Thompson in tow. He has the talent but his size makes hima laibility on defense when it comes to tackling.


meh to be fair he was on the outside a bit and was getting pushed by 3 steeler OL and denvers DL players while trying to make the tackle as well......and thompson is actually well renown for being a very good tackler......so perhaps 1 instance isnt a good body of work.....when comparing to someone like phonz who has at least 6 plus high profile misses this pre-season already......

Lonestar
08-30-2010, 11:42 AM
JUst do not get the hate for smith. You would think he wa a serial killer or something.

CB are one of the hardest spots to learn on the squad.

Regardless of where you are drafted had he been taken as a #3 choice no one would have woody for him. As a ball hawk I like what I have seen of him. Not a great tackler but FEW CBs are and even fewer CBs starts as a rookie usually they are clueless the first year. Yes there are exceptions to that. But it is more the rule.

Tough decisions will have to be made no doubt whatever they ar I'm ok with them.
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I Eat Staples
08-30-2010, 02:39 PM
Didn't read the entire thing, but my thoughts on Syd'Quan from watching him against the Steelers were he's extremely elusive and hard to bring down returning the ball, but he lacks the speed necessary to break away.

gobroncsnv
08-30-2010, 11:18 PM
Well, I'm ok with a 25 yd punt return average... the kid's got SOMETHING. A lot of really fast people can't read/set up blocks...
Not sure what it is with Smith, other than, we gave up a first round pick to get him, and he's not showing the kind of production you would have hoped for that kind of trade bait. Once again, a case where his draft position is being outshone by others who got picked later, some MUCH later. So I play/keep the ones who are doing better. Maybe he'll put it all together after another year, but for now, he's not cracking the 1, or even 2 string, in my book. We got better people than him right now.

rcsodak
08-30-2010, 11:20 PM
Didn't read the entire thing, but my thoughts on Syd'Quan from watching him against the Steelers were he's extremely elusive and hard to bring down returning the ball, but he lacks the speed necessary to break away.

I Eat Staples says "cut Syd', cuz anybody can run back kicks for 60+ yds......

:coffee: