PDA

View Full Version : Tebow could see ample time with Broncos this year



Denver Native (Carol)
07-21-2010, 09:41 AM
http://www.denverpost.com/broncos/ci_15563767

The media barbecue that traditionally opens Broncos training camp is a week from today. I like to prepare for it by drawing up a list of questions that won't be answered there.

Media wretches are not actually barbecued at the media barbecue, in case you were wondering. At least, we weren't during the Mike Shanahan regime. I'm told he considered it, but the culinary crew was unanimously opposed.

The media barbecue is a semi- social occasion at which the coach offers up pabulum and the wretches eat it up, usually with barbecue sauce. When we're not eating, we entertain ourselves with the questions that won't be answered. Here's one of the more intriguing this year:

Just how much "wild horse" offense should we expect to see this season? Or, to put it another way, just how much Tim Tebow?

My guess is more than you think. In fact, my guess is the Broncos will lead the league in what other teams call wildcat plays, unless Tebow's place in the formation determines what you call it, in which case the counting could get complicated.

As you may have heard, Josh McDaniels, the Broncos' second- year head coach, is not lacking for confidence. So I would be surprised if he drafted Tebow in the first round to be a clipboard holder for even one year. That would be the conventional approach, but conventional does not seem to be what McDaniels is after.

On the other hand, based on the team's extensive work during offseason minicamps, McDaniels made no secret of the fact that last year's starter, Kyle Orton, is well ahead of backups Brady Quinn and Tebow in the base offense. No surprise there. It is Tebow's first pro offense, and Quinn is reaching back to his college days for a similar scheme.

McDaniels expects Orton to improve in his second year in the system, but he also knows the offense lost its most prolific receiver and at least two linemen. So while I'm sure he hopes for more efficiency from the base offensive packages, I'm thinking his vague, but repeated offseason references to schematic changes may have understated his plans.

Enter the wild horse, the equine version of the wildcat. For many teams, this variation on the ancient single wing relies on the element of surprise. A defense sets up for a traditional offensive formation, the huddle breaks with the quarterback where a receiver should be and a running back where the quarterback should be, and the defense adjusts on the fly.

The Broncos ran it occasionally last season with Orton coming in motion from the slot, allowing him to set up behind center and take the snap in the traditional way or let it go straight to running back Knowshon Moreno. As a player many scouts rated a better runner than passer, Tebow offers more options.

The Broncos could run it the way they ran it last year, or they could run it with Tebow in the running back's spot in the shotgun. This latter formation would cause some terminology problems because the wildcat's main characteristic is someone other than the quarterback setting up where the quarterback should be, although it also usually features an unbalanced line. If the quarterback sets up where the quarterback should be, even if it's an alternate quarterback who is primarily a runner, we might need a ruling from Alex Trebek on whether you can call it the wild horse.

We may have to call it the wild Tebow — a package run out of a wildcat formation with a running quarterback taking the snap. This still would provide the Broncos all the wildcat options: Tebow could run the ball, hand or pitch it to a sweeping back or receiver, or pass it.

Even if he is not ready to be a starting NFL quarterback, Tebow is likely to be a better passer than most running backs and a better runner than most quarterbacks. The wild Tebow might give him a way to make one read and know which is required.

You also could run a regular wild horse with Moreno behind center and Tebow splitting wide or setting up in the slot. Unlike Orton, he might actually be used to catch a pass or take a handoff, making the quarterback in the formation more than a decoy.

Just how often should we expect to see situational offensive packages in which Tebow subs for Orton? McDaniels is unlikely to let that slip at the media barbecue, so we'll have to take our best shot:

As with any offensive package, it will depend on how often it works. But particularly in red zone and goal-line situations, in which the Broncos struggled last year, this season's most interesting innovation seems likely to be a heavy dose of the wild Tebow.

MasterShake
07-21-2010, 10:26 AM
All of that...right there... is AWESOME. I can not wait for the season to start!

GEM
07-21-2010, 10:28 AM
My Dad and I are going to one of the 2 a days!! The only thing to bbq will be us in the sun!!! :rockon:

Dirk
07-21-2010, 10:32 AM
I wish I still lived in Denver so I could go to stuff like that.

TXBRONC
07-21-2010, 01:22 PM
No matter what Krieger or anyone else says the formation isn't the Wild Horse or the Wild Tebow (lame nickname imho) it's the Wild Ass formation. :D

Ravage!!!
07-21-2010, 02:36 PM
No matter what Krieger or anyone else says the formation isn't the Wild Horse or the Wild Tebow (lame nickname imho) it's the Wild Ass formation. :D

Wouldn't that make a difference as to whom is in the line-up at the time?? :confused: :D

OrangeHoof
07-21-2010, 02:45 PM
Why does every team have to have their own goofy name for the Wildcat, which is really nothing more than a variation of the T formation from 70 years ago?

A guy who is at least adequate as both a runner and passer takes a direct snap and has a run-pass option or hands off to another guy who is a better runner than a passer. Gosh Almighty! What WILL they think of next??

This is what all quarterbacks used to do (and many a college system still does) before pro quarterbacks became too expensive and fragile to risk getting beat up on the run part of the option.

So, OK, we spent a #1 pick on a QB who can run well. Ask the Titans how that worked out for them. If Tebow gets his nuts busted by some semi-human Steeler or Raven this season, we're all going to wonder why we all thought this was a good idea.

Most of the successful variations of this have been running backs who were mildly-capable throwers and are a bit more durable than your typical QB. Paying first-round money to a QB who has already suffered his first concussion to run such an option is, in my opinion, ill-considered unless you leave it near the end of the playbook.

Lonestar
07-21-2010, 03:26 PM
But particularly in red zone and goal-line situations, in which the Broncos struggled last year, this season's most interesting innovation seems likely to be a heavy dose of the wild Tebow.



We have had issues in the redone since our Superbowl OLINE retired and TD was hurt. Since then ONLY occasionally have we been decent inside the 5.

MA and poorti$$$ were decent and Mike bell actually had asmany TD one year as yards IIRC. but beyond that rezone has been a FG zone for us for a LONG time.

Tempus Fugit
07-21-2010, 05:06 PM
Ask the Titans how that worked out for them.

The Titans really aren't a good team to use as an example, if you're trying to recommend going away from a running QB. Steve McNair got them to within 3 yards of a Super Bowl win. Vince Young, when he hasn't been melting down emotionally, has gotten them a 26-13 win/loss record as a starter.

oubronco
07-21-2010, 06:50 PM
My Dad and I are going to one of the 2 a days!! The only thing to bbq will be us in the sun!!! :rockon:

Nice shirt there GEM

Lonestar
07-21-2010, 08:59 PM
Running QB's are not exactly losers like some want to preach.

They may not be Payton but have there merits and give defenses something else to worry about.
Mobile Post via Mobile.BroncosForums.com/forums

spikerman
07-21-2010, 09:27 PM
Mobile quarterbacks are nice, but ultimately the NFL has become a passing league. If you have a QB that can run, but can't throw, the odds of winning on a consistent basis are not good. If Tebow does not develop into a good NFL caliber passer, he won't last long, no matter how mobile he is.

TXBRONC
07-21-2010, 09:35 PM
Mobile quarterbacks are nice, but ultimately the NFL has become a passing league. If you have a QB that can run, but can't throw, the odds of winning on a consistent basis are not good. If Tebow does not develop into a good NFL caliber passer, he won't last long, no matter how mobile he is.

I think there is difference between a running quarterback and mobile quarterback.

When I think of running quarterback I think of Bobby Douglass who couldn't throw a pass to save his life but he sure could run over people.

A mobile quarterback is one that get away from the rush but still look for an open receiver first and only take off as a last resort.

spikerman
07-21-2010, 09:37 PM
I think there is difference between a running quarterback and mobile quarterback.

When I think of running quarterback I think of Bobby Douglass who couldn't throw a pass to save his life but he sure could run over people.

A mobile quarterback is one that get away from the rush but still look for an open receiver first and only take off as a last resort.

Yep, you're spot on. When I said "mobile", I should have said "running". Thanks.

TXBRONC
07-21-2010, 09:51 PM
Yep, you're spot on. When I said "mobile", I should have said "running". Thanks.

No problem. :salute:

Lonestar
07-21-2010, 10:20 PM
Mobile quarterbacks are nice, but ultimately the NFL has become a passing league. If you have a QB that can run, but can't throw, the odds of winning on a consistent basis are not good. If Tebow does not develop into a good NFL caliber passer, he won't last long, no matter how mobile he is.



I do not think we are going to have to worry about whether Tebow can pass or not H e fairly good job of theta in college against SEC defenses.

While they are not quite on PAR with the NFL the SEC is where a lot of the talent the NFL has on staff comes from.

Since IIRC he holds most of the College passing marks he is no slouch as SOME want o paint him.

Now granted many college QBs do not make it BIG time, in the NFL I'm going to bet that this one will amy not be a payton manning but doubt he will eb groomsman but somewhere in-between.

Unlike some I'm willing to give him the benefit of doubt the first couple of years in the NFL, it is not like we absolutely have to have him on the field day one either.

We are not quite in the DET ranking in the NFL but not quite at the NJT either. But again some where in-between.

Jagsbch
07-21-2010, 10:23 PM
One has to wonder how will tebows presence on the field impact Knowshon Morenos' fantasy status?

TXBRONC
07-21-2010, 10:30 PM
One has to wonder how will tebows presence on the field impact Knowshon Morenos' fantasy status?

Why would one have to wonder unless one thinks he's going to be used as a running back? According to McDaniels Tebow is a quarterback, not a running back, an H back, a tight end, or a wide receiver.

Jagsbch
07-21-2010, 10:37 PM
Why would one have to wonder unless one thinks he's going to be used as a running back? According to McDaniels Tebow is a quarterback, not a running back, an H back, a tight end, or a wide receiver.

http://forums.denverbroncos.com/image.php?u=8818&dateline=1276350308Why would one have to wonder? 3rd down and goal who are you giving the ball to?:welcome:

TXBRONC
07-21-2010, 10:41 PM
Why would one have to wonder? 3rd down and goal who are you giving the ball to?:welcome:

More times than not Moreno. :coffee:

Jagsbch
07-21-2010, 10:45 PM
http://forums.denverbroncos.com/image.php?u=8818&dateline=1276350308What I am talking about is "Things You've Never Seen Before" :listen:

TXBRONC
07-21-2010, 10:49 PM
http://forums.denverbroncos.com/image.php?u=8818&dateline=1276350308What I am talking about is "Things You've Never Seen Before" :listen:

Actually you're not. Maybe you're aware of this, but this NFL is not the SEC. :welcome:

honz
07-22-2010, 01:05 AM
My guess? Tebow won't see the field this year more than 2-3 times a game in "gadget" formations unless Orton gets injured or we are out of the playoff race.

Dirk
07-22-2010, 06:07 AM
I'm kind of thinking the same. Tebow may see some time but very little.

If I were McD, he would be holding a clipboard all year. Unless catastrophy occurs.

TXBRONC
07-22-2010, 08:55 AM
My guess? Tebow won't see the field this year more than 2-3 times a game in "gadget" formations unless Orton gets injured or we are out of the playoff race.


I'm kind of thinking the same. Tebow may see some time but very little.

If I were McD, he would be holding a clipboard all year. Unless catastrophy occurs.

I think he'll be in a little more than two to three times a game. I figure somewhere in the neighborhood of about five maybe six times a game.

I understand wanting to him sit and learn but I don't have problem with him being invovled in the game plan.

Dirk
07-22-2010, 09:33 AM
I agree that it wouldn't hurt to have him in from time to time. I am of the old school thought of letting them learn instead of throwing them to the wolves.

Ravage!!!
07-22-2010, 09:58 AM
A LOT is invested to simply sit him. Won't happen. Every QB that has sat, has said that sitting wasn't NEAR as good as getting on the field and learning. Sitting on the sideline for 3 years won't give him the experience of 1/2 a season of starting.

Tebow will be starting by the end of the season, imo. Before that, we'll see him in a number of plays that are specifically designed to get Tebow on the field. The coach NEEDS to get him on the field to justify the draft pick.

We were 8-8 last year, with a record downfall after a 6-0 start. You can't go into the next draft and take a 1st rounder that doesn't even see the field. McD will have to justify that pick by getting Tebow on the field. I feel thats a given.

I think early on, we'll see a few plays with Tebow in. Some for the short yardage, 3rd down conversions. This will be just a few. Just enough to say "we aren't pushing him to be the starter, he's not starting soon over Orton, but he IS going to be used since that's what we drafted him for." Enough times for McD to be show the value/benefit/talent of Tebow.

Then as the season progresses, we'll see more. After mid-season, I won't be surprised if there's a call for Tebow to be the starter from the fans and media, and eventually (by 12 games in, easily imo)...Tebow is taking the reigns. Maybe sooner if Orton follows his pattern of getting hurt.

BroncoWave
07-22-2010, 09:58 AM
I think it would be a mistake for Tebow to sit on the bench all year. You get better from playing. Yeah you can learn stuff watching from the bench but that learning curve goes up exponentially when you are learning it on the field.

Now if we had a great QB who was capable of winning us a SB I might change my opinion, but I think most of us know that Kyle Orton is not our long term solution at QB, so why not get Tebow a few snaps a game this year? What could it possibly hurt?

BroncoWave
07-22-2010, 09:59 AM
A LOT is invested to simply sit him. Won't happen. Every QB that has sat, has said that sitting wasn't NEAR as good as getting on the field and learning. Sitting on the sideline for 3 years won't give him the experience of 1/2 a season of starting.

Tebow will be starting by the end of the season, imo. Before that, we'll see him in a number of plays that are specifically designed to get Tebow on the field. IMO, the coach NEEDS to get him on the field to justify the draft pick.

We were 8-8 last year, with a record downfall after a 6-0 start. You can't go into the next draft and take a 1st rounder that doesn't even see the field. McD will have to justify that pick by getting Tebow on the field. I feel thats a given.

I think early on, we'll see a few plays with Tebow in. Some for the short yardage, 3rd down conversions. This will be just a few. Just enough to say "we aren't pushing him to be the starter, he's not starting soon over Orton, but he IS going to be used since that's what we drafted him for." Enough times for McD to be show the value/benefit/talent of Tebow.

Then as the season progresses, we'll see more. After mid-season, I won't be surprised if there's a call for Tebow to be the starter from the fans and media, and eventually (by 12 games in, easily imo)...Tebow is taking the reigns. Maybe sooner if Orton follows his pattern of getting hurt.

I agree with every word of this. This may be the first post on Tebow we have agreed on! :lol:

TXBRONC
07-22-2010, 10:14 AM
I agree with every word of this. This may be the first post on Tebow we have agreed on! :lol:

I just saw the four horsemen of the Apocalypse. :eek:

jhildebrand
07-22-2010, 10:39 AM
A LOT is invested to simply sit him. Won't happen. Every QB that has sat, has said that sitting wasn't NEAR as good as getting on the field and learning. Sitting on the sideline for 3 years won't give him the experience of 1/2 a season of starting.

Tebow will be starting by the end of the season, imo. Before that, we'll see him in a number of plays that are specifically designed to get Tebow on the field. The coach NEEDS to get him on the field to justify the draft pick.

We were 8-8 last year, with a record downfall after a 6-0 start. You can't go into the next draft and take a 1st rounder that doesn't even see the field. McD will have to justify that pick by getting Tebow on the field. I feel thats a given.

I think early on, we'll see a few plays with Tebow in. Some for the short yardage, 3rd down conversions. This will be just a few. Just enough to say "we aren't pushing him to be the starter, he's not starting soon over Orton, but he IS going to be used since that's what we drafted him for." Enough times for McD to be show the value/benefit/talent of Tebow.

Then as the season progresses, we'll see more. After mid-season, I won't be surprised if there's a call for Tebow to be the starter from the fans and media, and eventually (by 12 games in, easily imo)...Tebow is taking the reigns. Maybe sooner if Orton follows his pattern of getting hurt.

I agree with everything, Rav.

However, if this team finds a way to start 6-0 again, or are fighting for the AFC W lead, I guarnatee Tebow wont be starting.

TXBRONC
07-22-2010, 10:40 AM
I think it would be a mistake for Tebow to sit on the bench all year. You get better from playing. Yeah you can learn stuff watching from the bench but that learning curve goes up exponentially when you are learning it on the field.

Now if we had a great QB who was capable of winning us a SB I might change my opinion, but I think most of us know that Kyle Orton is not our long term solution at QB, so why not get Tebow a few snaps a game this year? What could it possibly hurt?


Elway has said that he was glad that he had to the chance to start as rookie even though he struggled. There are quarterbacks that have sat for a year or two and then step in and are fine. However, I think it better if they get experience because it's the only become comfortable with speed of the game.

If Tebow is brought in to games play quarterback I fully agree I don't think it would hurt. But if he's brought into games to play multiple positions I don't think that would help him as much in developing his skills as a quarterback. McDaniels said his intent isn't use Tim at multiple positions but let him develop as a quarterback.

Mike
07-22-2010, 10:50 AM
I don't see where too much was invested for him to sit out a season or any reason why McD has to justify the pick by playing him. I am sure that he will get involved somewhat in the offense. But as the regular starting QB? Outside of injuries at the QB position, I seriously doubt it.

TXBRONC
07-22-2010, 11:14 AM
I don't see where too much was invested for him to sit out a season or any reason why McD has to justify the pick by playing him. I am sure that he will get involved somewhat in the offense. But as the regular starting QB? Outside of injuries at the QB position, I seriously doubt it.

As far what Tebow will be paid I agree McDaniels wont have much money tied up in Tim as Spagnuolo will in Bradford. However, as far as McDaniels coaching career is concerned he has lot invested in this kid.

Having Orton does give McDaniels luxury working Tim in slowly and I think that what's more than likely going to happen. However, I also think McDaniels wouldn't think twice about stating Tim if out played Orton in camp or if we Denver isn't the hunt for the playoffs.

BroncoWave
07-22-2010, 11:38 AM
Elway has said that he was glad that he had to the chance to start as rookie even though he struggled. There are quarterbacks that have sat for a year or two and then step in and are fine. However, I think it better if they get experience because it's the only become comfortable with speed of the game.

If Tebow is brought in to games play quarterback I fully agree I don't think it would hurt. But if he's brought into games to play multiple positions I don't think that would help him as much in developing his skills as a quarterback. McDaniels said his intent isn't use Tim at multiple positions but let him develop as a quarterback.

I think there is about a 0% chance of Tebow playing multiple positions as long as he is playing for McDaniels. I think he's made it pretty clear that he is strictly a QB.

TXBRONC
07-22-2010, 11:43 AM
I think there is about a 0% chance of Tebow playing multiple positions as long as he is playing for McDaniels. I think he's made it pretty clear that he is strictly a QB.

It wouldn't be the first time that a coach says one thing and does another. However, I don't think one of those instances where you take what the coach says with a grain of salt. :salute:

Ravage!!!
07-22-2010, 12:15 PM
I don't see where too much was invested for him to sit out a season or any reason why McD has to justify the pick by playing him. I am sure that he will get involved somewhat in the offense. But as the regular starting QB? Outside of injuries at the QB position, I seriously doubt it.

McD traded away one pro-bowl QB, then decided to make that trade with a team because of a specific QB, instead of trading with another team that had higher/better picks. Then, turns around the next season and spends four draft picks (in a draft that is considered to be the deepest in a decade+) to replace the QB he specifically picked over another. After collapsing a 6-0 start, and using 4 picks to take a QB (one that was WIDELY controversial in taking in the first round to begin with)... I believe there is a LARGE feeling of need to justify such a pick. Especially all that has gone on the last two off-seasons of trading away the team's top offensive talent.

If we are in a playoff hunt, I don't see us putting Tebow in as starter. But I personally don't feel that will be the case this season. So I feel that Tebow will be starting by the 12 game to finish the year as the starting QB, so that he has the experience to move as the starter next season (which I believe is an absolutely guaranteed).

JaxBroncoGirl
07-22-2010, 12:19 PM
As far what Tebow will be paid I agree McDaniels wont have much money tied up in Tim as Spagnuolo will in Bradford. However, as far as McDaniels coaching career is concerned he has lot invested in this kid.

Having Orton does give McDaniels luxury working Tim in slowly and I think that what's more than likely going to happen. However, I also think McDaniels wouldn't think twice about stating Tim if out played Orton in camp or if we Denver isn't the hunt for the playoffs.

Since we have not started camp yet, we can only speculate as to what is going to happen in the QB position. IMHO, Tim will play several plays per game. Orton hopefully will take his 2nd year and have more confidence more receivers and throw the ball down the field, be more productive in the red zone. It all depends on the offensive line. Can Orton be productive if his line does not hold up? Tim can (college) and has the adaptability to create plays when the original play is dead. I have seen so much division on Orton, I want to see him in action. Between Tebow and Orton negative press and negative comments from the fans - I hope with all my heart they both come out like Twin Elways. Go Broncos!!!!!!!!!!!:cool:

Ravage!!!
07-22-2010, 12:24 PM
It wouldn't be the first time that a coach says one thing and does another. However, I don't think one of those instances where you take what the coach says with a grain of salt. :salute:

Depends on what you are considering multiple positions. If you are talking about him lining up at RB during some wild-horses formation, then I wouldn't surprised by that at all (and expect it).

But I don't think there is a chance that we use Tebow as anything other than QB. I personally think McD is just too confident to do that, for he'll believe he can train Tebow to be the franchise QB. Using him as a utility guy at other positions would be putting his franchise QB in jeopardy.... not to mention that it would be looked upon that Tebow doesn't have "what it takes" to make it as a full-time QB if we are using him as an H-back or RB.

BroncoWave
07-22-2010, 12:41 PM
McD traded away one pro-bowl QB, then decided to make that trade with a team because of a specific QB, instead of trading with another team that had higher/better picks. Then, turns around the next season and spends four draft picks (in a draft that is considered to be the deepest in a decade+) to replace the QB he specifically picked over another. After collapsing a 6-0 start, and using 4 picks to take a QB (one that was WIDELY controversial in taking in the first round to begin with)... I believe there is a LARGE feeling of need to justify such a pick. Especially all that has gone on the last two off-seasons of trading away the team's top offensive talent.

If we are in a playoff hunt, I don't see us putting Tebow in as starter. But I personally don't feel that will be the case this season. So I feel that Tebow will be starting by the 12 game to finish the year as the starting QB, so that he has the experience to move as the starter next season (which I believe is an absolutely guaranteed).


The "he traded away 4 draft picks" thing is so overblown IMO. The ONLY reason he stockpiled those 4 picks was to go back up and get Tebow. If he wasn't planning on getting Tebow, I really don't think he would have stockpiled those picks.

At the end of the day, we wound up with the same number of picks we started the day with and he effectively used a first and a second on Thomas and Tebow.

So for people to use the "he traded 4 draft picks" thing to put more pressure and expectations on Tebow is horribly misguided IMO.

Mike
07-22-2010, 12:41 PM
McD traded away one pro-bowl QB, then decided to make that trade with a team because of a specific QB, instead of trading with another team that had higher/better picks. Then, turns around the next season and spends four draft picks (in a draft that is considered to be the deepest in a decade+) to replace the QB he specifically picked over another. After collapsing a 6-0 start, and using 4 picks to take a QB (one that was WIDELY controversial in taking in the first round to begin with)... I believe there is a LARGE feeling of need to justify such a pick. Especially all that has gone on the last two off-seasons of trading away the team's top offensive talent.

If we are in a playoff hunt, I don't see us putting Tebow in as starter. But I personally don't feel that will be the case this season. So I feel that Tebow will be starting by the 12 game to finish the year as the starting QB, so that he has the experience to move as the starter next season (which I believe is an absolutely guaranteed).

Without trying to make this personal, you view it this way because of your dislike for the coach and the direction the team is going.

The Cutler situation had nothing to do with Tebow, so that doesn't come into play at all. I see it this way. McD saw a player he liked and maneuvered to get him. Sure, it was a gamble. But late first round gambles are nothing to get bent out of shape on, IMO. There is no way you will convince me that the justification of the pick has to be this year, nor will McD's career ride on how Tebow pans out.

Lonestar
07-22-2010, 01:44 PM
I think it would be a mistake for Tebow to sit on the bench all year. You get better from playing. Yeah you can learn stuff watching from the bench but that learning curve goes up exponentially when you are learning it on the field.

Now if we had a great QB who was capable of winning us a SB I might change my opinion, but I think most of us know that Kyle Orton is not our long term solution at QB, so why not get Tebow a few snaps a game this year? What could it possibly hurt?

continuity

Is KO the long term guy I think the jury is still out on that, I think that tebow will be that FQB that everyone seems to think you have to have to win super bowls.

But I believe that he will sit more, learning about the NFL speed of the game absorb a lot in film sessions while playing the Opposing Qb in practice getting his reps there while working on his mechanics.

Unlike some I do not believe that because he is a 1st round choice and will be getting 1st round money, being drafted near the bottom of that round will not make it mandatory for him to play day one.

I believe that Josh will get him on the field in certain situations to keep the D guessing on what will happen, but full time unlikely unless the other two Qb prove ineffective or are hurt.

I think that Josh has learned from his time in the league that starting rookie QB are more likely to cause long term harm than good.

We have two CHEAP veterans in front of him that should be good enough to allow him time to develop and be brought along like others have been.

I do not think Josh will have any pressure to do otherwise from Pat as when he was drafted he realized that he was a longer term fix for us rather than has to be on the field day one type.

the only folks that have such expectations are the fans and while most think they know more about the game than Josh, Pat knows better. Or he would have hired one of us to coach instead of Josh. :laugh::laugh::laugh::laugh::laugh:

Lonestar
07-22-2010, 01:51 PM
I don't see where too much was invested for him to sit out a season or any reason why McD has to justify the pick by playing him. I am sure that he will get involved somewhat in the offense. But as the regular starting QB? Outside of injuries at the QB position, I seriously doubt it.

His draft status of being a number one is what exercises everyone.

While #1 picks are supposed to be starters we have all seen that it does not always work out as planned when they are rushed into the line up. RB and LB seem to be about the only ones that step in and paly day one at a decent level.

Some OL types and safeties fall into the next level of competency.

Skill positions like WR, CB, DL and QB seem to take more time to develop and should not be rushed, while they are some time starters, they seldom live up to the hype the fans believe in. Often it is two or three years down the road before most of these type blossom.

although there are exceptions to all of these scenarios.

Lonestar
07-22-2010, 01:56 PM
The "he traded away 4 draft picks" thing is so overblown IMO. The ONLY reason he stockpiled those 4 picks was to go back up and get Tebow. If he wasn't planning on getting Tebow, I really don't think he would have stockpiled those picks.

At the end of the day, we wound up with the same number of picks we started the day with and he effectively used a first and a second on Thomas and Tebow.

So for people to use the "he traded 4 draft picks" thing to put more pressure and expectations on Tebow is horribly misguided IMO.

I agree a lot of blow hard headedness on that one.

In actuality we did wind up with one less 4th round pick after everything was said and done with all of the moving around so in effect he cost a 4th round pick plus the one we took him at.

Pretty fair horse trading if you ask me,

Lonestar
07-22-2010, 02:00 PM
Without trying to make this personal, you view it this way because of your dislike for the coach and the direction the team is going.

The Cutler situation had nothing to do with Tebow, so that doesn't come into play at all. I see it this way. McD saw a player he liked and maneuvered to get him. Sure, it was a gamble. But late first round gambles are nothing to get bent out of shape on, IMO. There is no way you will convince me that the justification of the pick has to be this year, nor will McD's career ride on how Tebow pans out.


amen Brother you nailed this one. :salute::salute::salute::salute::salute:

TXBRONC
07-22-2010, 02:26 PM
Since we have not started camp yet, we can only speculate as to what is going to happen in the QB position.

I don't think there is any speculating. Orton goes in as the starter and will remain such unless Quinn or Tebow can unseat him.


IMHO, Tim will play several plays per game.

I guess it depends on your definition of several plays. If you're thinking in terms of how often he was used at Florida in his freshman season that probably not going to happen. As I said imho he'll be in about 5 to 6. If that goes well then there is pretty good possibility his time on the field could increase.


Orton hopefully will take his 2nd year and have more confidence more receivers and throw the ball down the field, be more productive in the red zone. It all depends on the offensive line. Can Orton be productive if his line does not hold up?

Orton should be better given that he has a full year in the system but I don't know if he'll throw the ball down the field more. It doesn't seem to something he's comfortable and by his own admission he plays it safe. The offensive line had some issues but wasn't nearly as bad as some people would have you believe. Orton is immoble and at best pocket presences is inconsistent. Those are two things that can't be blamed on a high ankle sprain. Anyway if the line can stay healthy they'll be fine.


Tim can (college) and has the adaptability to create plays when the original play is dead. I have seen so much division on Orton, I want to see him in action. Between Tebow and Orton negative press and negative comments from the fans - I hope with all my heart they both come out like Twin Elways. Go Broncos!!!!!!!!!!!:cool:

Orton doesn't have the make up be anywhere never the level of John Elway. He's journeyman quarterback.

Tim will hopefully be great a quarterback in his own right.

spikerman
07-22-2010, 05:58 PM
I would love to see McDaniels send Tebow in for Denver's first offensive play at Jacksonville - even if it's a handoff. Might as well get the Jaguar fans to turn on their team early.

spikerman
07-22-2010, 06:01 PM
Is KO the long term guy I think the jury is still out on that, ...
Nothing against Orton but I certainly hope not, because if he is, the Tebow pick truly was a waste.

Lonestar
07-22-2010, 06:01 PM
I would love to see McDaniels send Tebow in for Denver's first offensive play at Jacksonville - even if it's a handoff. Might as well get the Jaguar fans to turn on their team early.

There could be riots in the stands if the play went for 6.

I know some folks from down that way and they were stunned when they did not take him with their #1 and when we got him I got hate mail from them.

YEs it will be an interesting game.

Lonestar
07-22-2010, 06:05 PM
Nothing against Orton but I certainly hope not, because if he is, the Tebow pick truly was a waste.

Not at all if Orton shows BIG time that he is a viable QB then the worst case scenario is one or the other is traded for mega picks..

Is there any doubt in anyones mind they would not try to sign KO to a longer term contract with the hopes of getting more picks for him?

Bueller Bueller?

I think we can say that Josh is one smart cookie when it comes to horse trading..

Jagsbch
07-22-2010, 09:18 PM
http://forums.denverbroncos.com/image.php?u=8818&dateline=1276350308You have to go all the way back to 2005 to find a QB picked in the first round who did not start, and the only reason why he did not start, was because Brett Favre was the QB. :elefant::elefant::elefant::elefant::elefant:

Mathew Stafford
Mark Sanchez
Josh Freeman
Joe Flacco
Matt Ryan
JaMarcus Russell
Brady Quinn
Vince Young
Matt Leinart
Jay Cutler
Alex Smith
Aaron Rogers

jhildebrand
07-22-2010, 09:46 PM
http://forums.denverbroncos.com/image.php?u=8818&dateline=1276350308You have to go all the way back to 2005 to find a QB picked in the first round who did not start, and the only reason why he did not start, was because Brett Favre was the QB. :elefant::elefant::elefant::elefant::elefant:

Mathew Stafford
Mark Sanchez
Josh Freeman
Joe Flacco
Matt Ryan
JaMarcus Russell
Brady Quinn
Vince Young
Matt Leinart
Jay Cutler
Alex Smith
Aaron Rogers

Quinn was forced to throw 8 passes in 1 game in 07. I would argue he didn't play.

Jagsbch
07-22-2010, 10:01 PM
http://a323.yahoofs.com/ymg/ept_sports_nfl_experts__24/ept_sports_nfl_experts-348240111-1278046261.jpg?ym1QwYDDhmKLIXc_

According to Madden, Tim Tebow is tougher than Chuck Norris

Just be glad that Madden doesn't measure spiritual strength. Everyone else would be in the 70s or 80s, and Tebow would rate a 3,982, and guardian angels would hover over every football he throws, reverently guiding it into the hands of the unworthy, but now blessed, receiver.

http://sports.yahoo.com/nfl/blog/shutdown_corner/post/According-to-Madden-Tim-Tebow-is-tougher-than-C?urn=nfl-253029

Jagsbch
07-22-2010, 10:03 PM
Quinn was forced to throw 8 passes in 1 game in 07. I would argue he didn't play.

I automatically assumed he started, he did not have one start his rookie season, what a jip for all that hype eh?

Northman
07-22-2010, 10:05 PM
I automatically assumed he started, he did not have one start his rookie season, what a jip for all that hype eh?

I think Quinn didnt start because his contract wasnt finished if i remember correctly. Not too mention Anderson had a great year before that and thus had the starting job.

JaxBroncoGirl
07-23-2010, 10:38 AM
I would love to see McDaniels send Tebow in for Denver's first offensive play at Jacksonville - even if it's a handoff. Might as well get the Jaguar fans to turn on their team early.

That is exactly what will happen, the entire Jaguar fan base will be cheering for the Broncos.......:salute:

topscribe
07-23-2010, 10:55 AM
Nothing against Orton but I certainly hope not, because if he is, the Tebow pick truly was a waste.

Would it be better that Orton should bust, just to justify Tebow's selection?

Two good players are better than one. If Orton turns out to be the kind of
player that my observations have caused me to think he could be, then why
would that be bad? I'm having a hard time with that one. :confused:

-----

TXBRONC
07-23-2010, 11:01 AM
Nothing against Orton but I certainly hope not, because if he is, the Tebow pick truly was a waste.

Unless Orton does something extraordinary like leading Denver deep into the playoffs Tebow will eventually get his shot at starting.

jhildebrand
07-23-2010, 11:24 AM
I automatically assumed he started, he did not have one start his rookie season, what a jip for all that hype eh?

Careful! The Browns maneuvering to get back into that first round after taking Thomas was much the same as the Broncos with Tebow.

TXBRONC
07-23-2010, 11:29 AM
Careful! The Browns maneuvering to get back into that first round after taking Thomas was much the same as the Broncos with Tebow.

I have thought this myself.

arapaho2
07-23-2010, 12:19 PM
Not at all if Orton shows BIG time that he is a viable QB then the worst case scenario is one or the other is traded for mega picks..

Is there any doubt in anyones mind they would not try to sign KO to a longer term contract with the hopes of getting more picks for him?

Bueller Bueller?

I think we can say that Josh is one smart cookie when it comes to horse trading..


a smart cookie would not commit money to a player he wants to trade....if thers no takers..were stuck

jhildebrand
07-23-2010, 03:32 PM
a smart cookie would not commit money to a player he wants to trade....if thers no takers..were stuck
Especially when he took a hit like he did with Simms.

TXBRONC
07-23-2010, 04:10 PM
Not at all if Orton shows BIG time that he is a viable QB then the worst case scenario is one or the other is traded for mega picks..

Is there any doubt in anyones mind they would not try to sign KO to a longer term contract with the hopes of getting more picks for him?

Bueller Bueller?

I think we can say that Josh is one smart cookie when it comes to horse trading..


a smart cookie would not commit money to a player he wants to trade....if thers no takers..were stuck

I think McDaniels is a whole smarter than to do what Jr is suggesting. If he was going give Orton a long term contract he would have done it already. This was time to do it if he was going to. because McDaniels could have given Orton a raise that wouldn't have been "unfriendly" to the team. Yet McDaniels didn't do that instead he trades for Quinn and drafts and a quarterback in the first round.

spikerman
07-23-2010, 05:06 PM
Would it be better that Orton should bust, just to justify Tebow's selection? Obviously McDaniels doesn't see Orton as a long-term solution which is why he brought in Quinn and Tebow. Frankly, unless this is a Super Bowl caliber team (and it definitely does not appear to be - on paper) this will most likely be Orton's last year in Denver.



Two good players are better than one. If Orton turns out to be the kind of
player that my observations have caused me to think he could be, then why
would that be bad? I'm having a hard time with that one. :confused:

-----
It's never bad to have two good players, but if Orton comes in and sets the world on fire, that means that the Broncos did not need to draft a quarterback and could have addressed their many other needs. That's why the pick would have been a waste.

GGMoogly
07-23-2010, 07:16 PM
I've been TEBOWFIED! Gimme all Timmy, all the time!!! :cheer2:

TXBRONC
07-23-2010, 10:19 PM
I've been TEBOWFIED! Gimme all Timmy, all the time!!! :cheer2:

You just said in the Dumervil thread that how Dumervil goes so go the Broncos. Now you say this? For shame. :tsk: :D

GGMoogly
07-23-2010, 10:33 PM
You just said in the Dumervil thread that how Dumervil goes so go the Broncos. Now you say this? For shame. :tsk: :D

If you're actually going to read what I post, this isn't going to work for either of us. :tsk:

TXBRONC
07-23-2010, 10:42 PM
If you're actually going to read what I post, this isn't going to work for either of us. :tsk:

Double G you know I was kidding don't you?

GGMoogly
07-24-2010, 12:18 AM
Double G you know I was kidding don't you?

:nod:

TXBRONC
07-24-2010, 09:23 AM
:nod:

:2thumbs: