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omac
06-16-2008, 11:30 PM
I just found this site recently; it's got lots of interviews with Royal, Clady, Jackson, etc. Here's one with Niko. :cheers:

http://predominantlyorange.com/2008/06/12/qa-with-niko-koutouvides/


A couple of days ago, I posted the Darrell Jackson interview. Let’s take a look at his friend and former Seattle teammate, Niko Koutouvides. Koutouvides and Jackson will suit up for the Broncos for the first time this year and bring some more Super Bowl experience to the team. Koutouvides is a middle linebacker that was drafted by Seattle in 2004 after playing at Purdue.

Are you concentrating more on securing a starting position or on special teams?

NK: I would love to start on defense, but Seattle used me mainly on special teams. I’m all for starters playing on special teams, and I would love to do both.

Why did you choose to play for the Broncos?

NK: I felt I would have the best chance to go back to the Super Bowl with this team. I felt comfortable with the city and all the coaches after meeting with them.

How do you like Denver so far?

NK: I like it a lot. The mountains are beautiful, but I haven’t been up there yet. Too cold for me. I just look at the top and shiver thinking how cold it must be. I’m from the east coast (grew up in Connecticut) and we don’t have mountains like that.

What are you going to do to stop Darren McFadden when you play the Raiders?

NK: I’ll give him a special rookie welcome if I get the chance. We’ll have something special for Javon Walker too. He’s not too happy with the Broncos right now. You work year round for those kind of games. It’s going to be exciting.

What does a typical day look like for you at this point in the off-season?

NK: I wake up around 6:30, eat, lift, watch film, and then practice. We’re usually done around 1:00. It’s a different story once August hits. During the regular season guys are putting in 11-13 hour days. Between working out, meetings, practicing, watching film, and getting treatment at the beginning and end of the day, we put in long hours. We only get 30 minutes for lunch too. It’s not like we can just show up for 3 hour games on Sundays ready to go. That’s the thing many people don’t realize. It’s a full time job.

Was Travis Henry a distraction to the team?

NK: The team did what it felt was right. Team unity is the most important part of the equation. If the team with the most talent always won it, Dallas would have won the Super Bowl last year. The organization was just trying to build team unity, and took this direction to do it.

* Note: I saw two Travis Henry jerseys all weekend at Fan Fair. The 3 year old kid wearing one obviously didn’t have a choice in the matter, but the 17 year old kid must have not received the memo. People are obviously over Henry’s antics here in Denver.

Retired_Member_001
06-17-2008, 04:15 AM
Unfortunately the question will be whether Javon Walker's knee holds up long enough for us to see his sorry ass get smashed to peices.

dogfish
06-17-2008, 04:25 AM
"We’ll have something special for Javon Walker"


it's official now-- i like this guy! sounds like a straight shooter. . . .

Dean
06-17-2008, 06:38 AM
It apears that the Vegas muggers beat Niko to Walker.

It sounds like his injuries are serious enough that he won't be ready for camp.

SR
06-17-2008, 08:02 AM
Niko is a good dude. I hope they ALL have something "special" for Walker.

Rick
06-17-2008, 08:14 AM
Niko wasn't in veges recently was he?

Hoshdude7
06-17-2008, 09:01 AM
It apears that the Vegas muggers beat Niko to Walker.

It sounds like his injuries are serious enough that he won't be ready for camp.

I bet you Denver players beat the crap out of him.

Thnikkaman
06-17-2008, 09:37 AM
I bet you Denver players beat the crap out of him.

If he plays in the opener, I am willing to bet he won't be in the second meeting.

WARHORSE
06-17-2008, 10:36 AM
Champ will be waiting for Walker.

lex
06-17-2008, 10:39 AM
A couple of days ago, I posted the Darrell Jackson interview. Let’s take a look at his friend and former Seattle teammate, Niko Koutouvides. Koutouvides and Jackson will suit up for the Broncos for the first time this year and bring some more Super Bowl experience to the team. Koutouvides is a middle linebacker that was drafted by Seattle in 2004 after playing at Purdue.

Are you concentrating more on securing a starting position or on special teams?

NK: I would love to start on defense, but Seattle used me mainly on special teams. I’m all for starters playing on special teams, and I would love to do both.

Why did you choose to play for the Broncos?

NK: I felt I would have the best chance to go back to the Super Bowl with this team. I felt comfortable with the city and all the coaches after meeting with them.

How do you like Denver so far?

NK: I like it a lot. The mountains are beautiful, but I haven’t been up there yet. Too cold for me. I just look at the top and shiver thinking how cold it must be. I’m from the east coast (grew up in Connecticut) and we don’t have mountains like that.

What are you going to do to stop Darren McFadden when you play the Raiders?

NK: I’ll give him a special rookie welcome if I get the chance. We’ll have something special for Javon Walker too. He’s not too happy with the Broncos right now. You work year round for those kind of games. It’s going to be exciting.

What does a typical day look like for you at this point in the off-season?

NK: I wake up around 6:30, eat, lift, watch film, and then practice. We’re usually done around 1:00. It’s a different story once August hits. During the regular season guys are putting in 11-13 hour days. Between working out, meetings, practicing, watching film, and getting treatment at the beginning and end of the day, we put in long hours. We only get 30 minutes for lunch too. It’s not like we can just show up for 3 hour games on Sundays ready to go. That’s the thing many people don’t realize. It’s a full time job.

Was Travis Henry a distraction to the team?

NK: The team did what it felt was right. Team unity is the most important part of the equation. If the team with the most talent always won it, Dallas would have won the Super Bowl last year. The organization was just trying to build team unity, and took this direction to do it.

* Note: I saw two Travis Henry jerseys all weekend at Fan Fair. The 3 year old kid wearing one obviously didn’t have a choice in the matter, but the 17 year old kid must have not received the memo. People are obviously over Henry’s antics here in Denver.

This is what I found most interesting about this piece. I always thought Connecticut was in the northeast where it gets cold. Apparently, its somewhere near Florida.

Requiem / The Dagda
06-17-2008, 10:41 AM
"Put up or shut up."

G_Money
06-17-2008, 11:03 AM
He grew up in Connecticut and went to school at Purdue. It's colder in the Midwest and in the Northeast than it is here.

Carmelo Anthony was hilarious talking about that. "Man, I thought Denver was like buried in snow all winter. It's 70 degrees out in December. I'm from Baltimore, and we get ice storms. There's nothin' like that here" or something like that.

People think that because there are mountains around we live in Siberia or something.

It ain't that cold Niko! And no, you don't have mountains on the East Coast, but suck it up and get up there!

~G

Davii
06-17-2008, 11:43 AM
He grew up in Connecticut and went to school at Purdue. It's colder in the Midwest and in the Northeast than it is here.

Carmelo Anthony was hilarious talking about that. "Man, I thought Denver was like buried in snow all winter. It's 70 degrees out in December. I'm from Baltimore, and we get ice storms. There's nothin' like that here" or something like that.

People think that because there are mountains around we live in Siberia or something.

It ain't that cold Niko! And no, you don't have mountains on the East Coast, but suck it up and get up there!

~G

There are plenty of mountains on the east coast. Appalachians?

frauschieze
06-17-2008, 11:57 AM
There are plenty of mountains on the east coast. Appalachians?

Those are hills. :coffee:

G_Money
06-17-2008, 12:17 PM
What frau said - the Apps are foothills. I'm from Jersey, and those ain't mountains over there on the east coast. Even the Vermont mountains, where the whole NE goes to ski, are under 5000 feet.

The gently rolling Apps are cute, but they ain't the Rockies, or the Cascades, which themselves aren't the Alps.

~G

Davii
06-17-2008, 12:21 PM
What frau said - the Apps are foothills. I'm from Jersey, and those ain't mountains over there on the east coast. Even the Vermont mountains, where the whole NE goes to ski, are under 5000 feet.

The gently rolling Apps are cute, but they ain't the Rockies, or the Cascades, which themselves aren't the Alps.

~G

Certainly no comparison to the Rockies. Such a comparison cannot be found within our borders.

dogfish
06-17-2008, 01:29 PM
man, i don't care what he thinks of the climate as long as he can stuff the inside running game. . . .

rcsodak
06-17-2008, 06:52 PM
It apears that the Vegas muggers beat Niko to Walker.

It sounds like his injuries are serious enough that he won't be ready for camp.

Doubt he cares....


...he's been eating at the infamous IHOP, evidently, as he showed up at faiduh facilities out of shape. You'd think running around on a reconstructed knee would require LESS weight, wouldn't you? :confused:

Now he gets to add Twinkies to his diet.

rcsodak
06-17-2008, 06:54 PM
Lex,


NK: I like it a lot. The mountains are beautiful, but I haven’t been up there yet. Too cold for me. I just look at the top and shiver thinking how cold it must be. I’m from the east coast (grew up in Connecticut) and we don’t have mountains like that.

Ummmm...he's referring to the Mountains.......

D1g1tal j1m
06-17-2008, 07:48 PM
Lex,


NK: I like it a lot. The mountains are beautiful, but I haven’t been up there yet. Too cold for me. I just look at the top and shiver thinking how cold it must be. I’m from the east coast (grew up in Connecticut) and we don’t have mountains like that.

Ummmm...he's referring to the Mountains.......

Yeah, I grew up in CT and there are no mountains around. It does get insanely cold in the Winter and when we see white ice caps in them hills it usually means sledders and hot chocolate.

Nature Boy
06-18-2008, 09:06 AM
Dam the off season sucks. We are resorting to what our 2nd string MLB thinks about our main rival's shiny new over paid rookie RB.

I will reserve my right to say that Niko Kooties sucks until he proves that he is better than Al Wilson.

Lonestar
06-18-2008, 06:20 PM
It apears that the Vegas muggers beat Niko to Walker.

It sounds like his injuries are serious enough that he won't be ready for camp.



Have we accounted for the where abouts of all of his ex teammates the other night?

Might have been one of them that left the reminder.. and he is to CS to talk about it..


Sorry I read posts and respond to them as I read them.. Looks like lots of folks had the same idea

Lonestar
06-18-2008, 06:27 PM
He grew up in Connecticut and went to school at Purdue. It's colder in the Midwest and in the Northeast than it is here.

Carmelo Anthony was hilarious talking about that. "Man, I thought Denver was like buried in snow all winter. It's 70 degrees out in December. I'm from Baltimore, and we get ice storms. There's nothin' like that here" or something like that.

People think that because there are mountains around we live in Siberia or something.

It ain't that cold Niko! And no, you don't have mountains on the East Coast, but suck it up and get up there!

~G

I used to work at the DEN APO for a RAC company years ago and when the planes would land from NYC the clowns would come off the planes dressed like they were going to Nome.. Also in most cases thought they could catch the ski lift right outside Stapleton to the mountain.. they were shocked to find out it was 220 mile to Aspen 110 to Vail. 90% thought they would be able to ski the same morning there plane landed.. The richest were the worst..

There are lots of the morons in the US do not have a clue about the rest of the country.. Big city folk are the worst..

Lonestar
06-18-2008, 06:29 PM
Certainly no comparison to the Rockies. Such a comparison cannot be found within our borders.

California has some good ones.. called the Sierras and the Utah that is not flat and hot is not shabby either..

rcsodak
06-18-2008, 06:43 PM
I used to work at the DEN APO for a RAC company years ago and when the planes would land from NYC the clowns would come off the planes dressed like they were going to Nome.. Also in most cases thought they could catch the ski lift right outside Stapleton to the mountain.. they were shocked to find out it was 220 mile to Aspen 110 to Vail. 90% thought they would be able to ski the same morning there plane landed.. The richest were the worst..

There are lots of the morons in the US do not have a clue about the rest of the country.. Big city folk are the worst..
Agreed, jr. Some are still amazed the horse isn't the main mode of transportation in sodak!

rcsodak
06-18-2008, 06:45 PM
California has some good ones.. called the Sierras and the Utah that is not flat and hot is not shabby either..
California???

Jr, I thought we were talking about states in the US?!?!?!

TXBRONC
06-18-2008, 07:23 PM
Dam the off season sucks. We are resorting to what our 2nd string MLB thinks about our main rival's shiny new over paid rookie RB.

I will reserve my right to say that Niko Kooties sucks until he proves that he is better than Al Wilson.

According the depth chart he isn't our 2nd string Mike linebacker he's the starter. I'm not saying he will definitely be the starter when season starters however at this point he hasn't lost the job yet.

It's definitely your prerogative to say Koutouvides sucks but you have nothing to base it on right now.

Rick
06-18-2008, 07:46 PM
Dam the off season sucks. We are resorting to what our 2nd string MLB thinks about our main rival's shiny new over paid rookie RB.

I will reserve my right to say that Niko Kooties sucks until he proves that he is better than Al Wilson.


Wow, so he will automatically suck unless he proves he is BETER than Al?

TXBRONC
06-18-2008, 08:01 PM
Wow, so he will automatically suck unless he proves he is BETTER than Al?

If that's the case that Niko sucks until he proves to be better than Al Wilson then Al sucks because he was nowhere near as good as Randy Gradishar.

Disclaimer: I do think that Gradishar was hands down a better linebacker than Wilson however I don't think Wilson sucked just because he wasn't as good as Gradishar.

Nature Boy
06-18-2008, 08:30 PM
OK, it's gonna be hard to beat Al Wilson. Until Niko proves he can fill Al's role as the heart and sole of the defense, I reserve the right to say he sucks.

TXBRONC
06-18-2008, 08:58 PM
OK, it's gonna be hard to beat Al Wilson. Until Niko proves he can fill Al's role as the heart and sole of the defense, I reserve the right to say he sucks.


Ok but you've just basically said the same thing twice.

Nature Boy
06-18-2008, 09:04 PM
I guess i did. Every great defense through out the years always had a great MLB.

TXBRONC
06-18-2008, 09:45 PM
I guess i did. Every great defense through out the years always had a great MLB.

I agree, but I don't think we have had great defense in the years that Wilson manned the middle. Al was a very good MLB but I don't think he was great. Randy Gradishar on the other hand, he was a great middle linebacker.

Nature Boy
06-18-2008, 09:58 PM
I think Al Wilson 3-4 years ago was easily one of the top 5 MLBs in the league. Definitely one of the fastest, just not the biggest. Although Broncos defenses have not been the best the last decade, they were normally pretty good against the run with Al behind the line.

Lonestar
06-18-2008, 10:26 PM
California???

Jr, I thought we were talking about states in the US?!?!?!

I forgot it is indeed just a little to the left of the US..:laugh::laugh:

rcsodak
06-18-2008, 10:30 PM
OK, it's gonna be hard to beat Al Wilson. Until Niko proves he can fill Al's role as the heart and sole of the defense, I reserve the right to say he sucks.
If Niko can actually wrap his arms around the ball carrier, then he have PASSED Al.

I've never seen a defender think that just by running into the carrier, that he would go down, or lose the ball, as much as I did with Wilson.

rcsodak
06-18-2008, 10:30 PM
OK, it's gonna be hard to beat Al Wilson. Until Niko proves he can fill Al's role as the heart and sole of the defense, I reserve the right to say he sucks.
If Niko can actually wrap his arms around the ball carrier, then he will have PASSED Al.

I've never seen a defender think that just by running into the carrier, that he would go down, or lose the ball, as much as I did with Wilson.

Requiem / The Dagda
06-18-2008, 10:32 PM
Ian Gold makes Al Wilson look like the best LB ever.

rcsodak
06-18-2008, 10:38 PM
Ian Gold makes Al Wilson look like the best LB ever.
And Gold wasn't much to speak of, albeit 1.5yrs.

TXBRONC
06-18-2008, 10:42 PM
If Niko can actually wrap his arms around the ball carrier, then he will have PASSED Al.

I've never seen a defender think that just by running into the carrier, that he would go down, or lose the ball, as much as I did with Wilson.

That was a very bad habit of Wilson.

I don't know what Niko brings to the table but if he can play the run we'll already be a better defense.

Nature Boy
06-18-2008, 10:42 PM
If Niko can actually wrap his arms around the ball carrier, then he have PASSED Al.

I've never seen a defender think that just by running into the carrier, that he would go down, or lose the ball, as much as I did with Wilson.

Al Wilson did miss tackles at times by trying to make the nightly ESPN highlight reel by blowing up ball carriers instead of wrapping them up. So it's not because he can't wrap up, he normally chooses not to but it's few and far in between. It just sticks to our mind when it does happen.

Requiem / The Dagda
06-18-2008, 10:45 PM
And Gold wasn't much to speak of, albeit 1.5yrs.

Touche, RC. . . touche. :salute:

Nature Boy
06-18-2008, 10:46 PM
Ian Gold makes Al Wilson look like the best LB ever.

I don't know why you guys knock on Ian Gold and Al Wilson so much. I thought the threesome of Gold, Mobley and Wilson were the best in the league not too long ago.

Perhaps you guys liked Spragan, Sykes, Webster, etc. better?

Requiem / The Dagda
06-18-2008, 10:49 PM
Um, there's a reason Ian Gold was cut, besides being locker room cancer, he sucked at being a linebacker. Might as well put Beetlejuice at WLB, at least he scares people. Ian Gold couldn't intimidate a retarded toddler.

Nature Boy
06-18-2008, 11:01 PM
Let's just say I don't take your opinion as being true. Champ Bailey thought highly of Ian Gold and he was concerned when he heard Ian Gold will be gone. I can see why Ian Gold is out though. We have DJ Williams who is bigger, faster, younger and just better at WLB who is also holds less against the salary cap.

Rick
06-18-2008, 11:26 PM
I personally don't think Niko has to be great, just has to be good. Just a solid run stuffing MLB.

It is DJ that has to be great and I think he will. It will be DJ that will be in there every snap, not Niko.

dogfish
06-19-2008, 12:24 AM
I personally don't think Niko has to be great, just has to be good. Just a solid run stuffing MLB.

It is DJ that has to be great and I think he will. It will be DJ that will be in there every snap, not Niko.


we had some damn good linebackers over the past decade, and it was never enough to really put our defense over the top. . . it was pretty solid for a few years before the mid '06 collapse, but never dominant. . . hopefully the investments we've made in the D-line recently will build a foundation for a true top :defense: . . . of course, i still think there's a good chance that we could spend a high pick in next year's draft on a LB if niko doesn't pan out. . .

Nature Boy
06-19-2008, 01:18 AM
I personally don't think Niko has to be great, just has to be good. Just a solid run stuffing MLB.

It is DJ that has to be great and I think he will. It will be DJ that will be in there every snap, not Niko.

It certainly doesn't hurt the defense to have a great middle line backer does it. Go check with the Ravens and see why their defense is arguably the best over the span of Ray Lewis' career.

broncohead
06-19-2008, 02:17 AM
It certainly doesn't hurt the defense to have a great middle line backer does it. Go check with the Ravens and see why their defense is arguably the best over the span of Ray Lewis' career.

It doesn't have to be the MLB...

Nature Boy
06-19-2008, 02:29 AM
No one said it has to be. But it sure would be nice wouldn't it?

omac
06-19-2008, 03:27 AM
With Seattle having a pretty good run defense, and Niko watching Lofa during practice and in games, I'm sure a whole lot of that rubbed off of him. I wouldn't be surprised if he turned out to be a pretty solid player and good leader on the field.

Nature Boy
06-19-2008, 06:22 AM
With Seattle having a pretty good run defense, and Niko watching Lofa during practice and in games, I'm sure a whole lot of that rubbed off of him. I wouldn't be surprised if he turned out to be a pretty solid player and good leader on the field.

I sure hope so.

Did I read somewhere that Nate Webster was running with the 1st team during most of this past mini camp?

Nature Boy
06-19-2008, 06:27 AM
"Nate Webster has been seeing first-team reps at middle linebacker during Broncos Organized Team Activities.
Niko Koutouvides isn't going to be handed to the starting job. Koutouvides is limited athletically and Webster has more experience in the defense." -Rotoworld

http://www.rotoworld.com/Content/playerpages/player_main.aspx?sport=Nfl&id=2549

It's early but it's apparent Nate has the step on Niko and Nate sucks. I wonder that says about Niko?

omac
06-19-2008, 06:47 AM
"Nate Webster has been seeing first-team reps at middle linebacker during Broncos Organized Team Activities.
Niko Koutouvides isn't going to be handed to the starting job. Koutouvides is limited athletically and Webster has more experience in the defense." -Rotoworld

http://www.rotoworld.com/Content/playerpages/player_main.aspx?sport=Nfl&id=2549

It's early but it's apparent Nate has the step on Niko and Nate sucks. I wonder that says about Niko?

It doesn't really say much. Ofcourse Nate will be more familiar with the defense, working with Slowik much longer. And athleticism isn't everything; DJ is very athletic, but he didn't have the natural instincts of a mike. Tatupu was considered undersized and slow, yet he did pretty okay.

All we hear now are reports. We'll have to wait till preseason to gauge just how good Niko is.

Traveler
06-19-2008, 09:15 AM
I'm probably going to get skewered for saying this but here goes.

While our linebackers were some of the fastest in the league, none of them had ability as playmakers to change the course of a game.

Interceptions by our LB's were few and far between pre-dating John Mobley and Romo.

Someone please tell me when any of our LB's caused teams to gameplan against them or made intercetions or sacks that directly altered the outcome of a game. My guess is that you'd be hard pressed to do so off the top of your head.

What I mostly remember is our LB's sloppy tackling techniques or going kill shots. Truth be told, Champ Bailey is the best form tackler on this team.

My hope is that with all our LB's playing in their natural positions, we'll see more improvement in both tackling and turnovers.

TXBRONC
06-19-2008, 09:54 AM
It doesn't really say much. Ofcourse Nate will be more familiar with the defense, working with Slowik much longer. And athleticism isn't everything; DJ is very athletic, but he didn't have the natural instincts of a mike. Tatupu was considered undersized and slow, yet he did pretty okay.

All we hear now are reports. We'll have to wait till preseason to gauge just how good Niko is.

I thought D.J. became more instinctive as the season went on last year.

As far Niko is concerned he doesn't have to be as fast Williams or Wilson. If he has good instincts and lateral quickness he'll be just fine. That is of course contingent on him being our starting middle linebacker.

TXBRONC
06-19-2008, 09:57 AM
"Nate Webster has been seeing first-team reps at middle linebacker during Broncos Organized Team Activities.
Niko Koutouvides isn't going to be handed to the starting job. Koutouvides is limited athletically and Webster has more experience in the defense." -Rotoworld

http://www.rotoworld.com/Content/playerpages/player_main.aspx?sport=Nfl&id=2549

It's early but it's apparent Nate has the step on Niko and Nate sucks. I wonder that says about Niko?

OTAs don't mean jack because lots of players get looks with the first team offense and defense during OTAs. Also it doesn't say that Niko hasn't gotten time with first team defense. It sounds like they have shared time with the first team.

omac
06-19-2008, 09:58 PM
I thought D.J. became more instinctive as the season went on last year.

As far Niko is concerned he doesn't have to be as fast Williams or Wilson. If he has good instincts and lateral quickness he'll be just fine. That is of course contingent on him being our starting middle linebacker.

I thought he got better too. Nothing wrong at all with his production and hussle. The quarterbacking of the defense he was starting to do better with later on. Maybe if he stayed in that position for 2 more years ...

I just hope this will be the last time we shuffle DJ around on defense.

TXBRONC
06-19-2008, 10:55 PM
I thought he got better too. Nothing wrong at all with his production and hussle. The quarterbacking of the defense he was starting to do better with later on. Maybe if he stayed in that position for 2 more years ...

I just hope this will be the last time we shuffle DJ around on defense.

I hope so too, while he's capable of playing anyone of the positions, his favorite and where he plays the best is on the weak side.

Lonestar
06-19-2008, 11:00 PM
I thought he got better too. Nothing wrong at all with his production and hussle. The quarterbacking of the defense he was starting to do better with later on. Maybe if he stayed in that position for 2 more years ...

I just hope this will be the last time we shuffle DJ around on defense.


both you and TX are right on here.

DJ is a star in waiting just had to learn three different positions under two different DC..

and for the most part was hand cuffed because of the poor DL play..

I look for him to break out AGAIN this year, like his rookie year..

Mikey screwed the pooch bringing gold back IMO..

TXBRONC
06-19-2008, 11:18 PM
It certainly doesn't hurt the defense to have a great middle line backer does it. Go check with the Ravens and see why their defense is arguably the best over the span of Ray Lewis' career.

Ray Lewis would also tell you his success has had a lot to do with having big space eating defensive tackles in front of him.

dogfish
06-19-2008, 11:27 PM
Ray Lewis would also tell you his success has had a lot to do with having big space defensive tackles in front of him.


and a HOF-caliber safety behind him early in his career, and a fellow defensive MVP at the position now. . . and several excellent pass rushers, a rock-solid top cornerback for most of his career, etc etc. . .

not to take anything away from lewis, but he's had a LOT of talent arond him on that defense the entire time he's been there. . . and when he wasn't happy with the tackles in front of him he bitched and whined, made a big stink in the media, and hinted at trying to force a trade if they didn't get him a top tackle-- and they promptly got haloti ngata. . .

lewis has been the heart and soul, no question, but he's hardly had to do it all himself. . .


with that said, rey maualuga's the number one guy on my '09 draft wish list ATM. . . . :D

TXBRONC
06-19-2008, 11:29 PM
and a HOF-caliber safety behind him early in his career, and a fellow defensive MVP at the position now. . . and several excellent pass rushers, a rock-solid top cornerback for most of his career, etc etc. . .

not to take anything away from lewis, but he's had a LOT of talent arond him on that defense the entire time he's been there. . . and when he wasn't happy with the tackles in front of him he bitched and whined, made a big stink in the media, and hinted at trying to force a trade if they didn't get him a top tackle-- and they promptly got haloti ngata. . .

lewis has been the heart and soul, no question, but he's hardly had to do it all himself. . .


with that said, rey maualuga's the number one guy on my '09 draft wish list ATM. . . . :D

Yep Lewis has had a lot of talent round him through out his career.

Thnikkaman
06-20-2008, 08:39 AM
and a HOF-caliber safety behind him early in his career, and a fellow defensive MVP at the position now. . . and several excellent pass rushers, a rock-solid top cornerback for most of his career, etc etc. . .

not to take anything away from lewis, but he's had a LOT of talent arond him on that defense the entire time he's been there. . . and when he wasn't happy with the tackles in front of him he bitched and whined, made a big stink in the media, and hinted at trying to force a trade if they didn't get him a top tackle-- and they promptly got haloti ngata. . .

lewis has been the heart and soul, no question, but he's hardly had to do it all himself. . .


with that said, rey maualuga's the number one guy on my '09 draft wish list ATM. . . . :D

It also helps that Ray Lewis beat out a murder rap.

Nature Boy
06-20-2008, 06:52 PM
Ray Lewis would also tell you his success has had a lot to do with having big space eating defensive tackles in front of him.

And John Elway would tell you his success had a lot tp do with Terrel Davis' ability to run the ball. Then TD would tell you his success had a lot to do with a great Oline and run system. Get my drift?

Ray Lewis is easily the best MLB through out most of his career and he's still one of the top behind only a 1 or 2 guys. I still remember how he absolutely owned Shannan Sharpe, one of the best TEs to ever play the game.

Nature Boy
06-20-2008, 07:00 PM
It also helps that Ray Lewis beat out a murder rap.

If you knew anything about the details. Ray Lewis actually tried to defuse the situation. He definitely was not the actual guy who did the act. At worst, Ray Lewis would have been pinned with accessory to the fact and even that did not stick. I don't know why I'm defending the guy but it's ridiculous to hear house Homers such as the 3 of you say Ray Lewis is lesser of a football player than he's credited with.


and a HOF-caliber safety behind him early in his career, and a fellow defensive MVP at the position now. . . and several excellent pass rushers, a rock-solid top cornerback for most of his career, etc etc. . .

not to take anything away from lewis, but he's had a LOT of talent arond him on that defense the entire time he's been there. . . and when he wasn't happy with the tackles in front of him he bitched and whined, made a big stink in the media, and hinted at trying to force a trade if they didn't get him a top tackle-- and they promptly got haloti ngata. . .

lewis has been the heart and soul, no question, but he's hardly had to do it all himself. . .





The list below speaks for itself:

Ray Lewis' Career highlights and awards

* 9x Pro Bowl selection (1997, 1998, 1999, 2000, 2001, 2003, 2004, 2006, 2007)
* 7x All-Pro selection (1997, 1998, 1999, 2000, 2001, 2003, 2004)
* 2x AP NFL Defensive Player of Year (2000, 2003)
* 1x Super Bowl champion (XXXV)
* Super Bowl XXXV MVP
* Member of 20 Sack/20 Int Club

TXBRONC
06-20-2008, 07:19 PM
And John Elway would tell you his success had a lot tp do with Terrel Davis' ability to run the ball. Then TD would tell you his success had a lot to do with a great Oline and run system. Get my drift?

Ray Lewis is easily the best MLB through out most of his career and he's still one of the top behind only a 1 or 2 guys. I still remember how he absolutely owned Shannan Sharpe, one of the best TEs to ever play the game.

That is irrelavent. I'm not talking about Elway and I'm not talking about Davis.

It would be rather hard for a Mike to cover a tight end and if fact under most circumstance they don't cover the tight end. So no I doubt he owned Sharpe.

Ziggy
06-20-2008, 07:26 PM
Ray Lewis is easily the best MLB through out most of his career and he's still one of the top behind only a 1 or 2 guys. I still remember how he absolutely owned Shannan Sharpe, one of the best TEs to ever play the game.

Do you have any evidence to back that statement up? I watched every game Sharpe played and don't ever remember seeing Lewis own him.

TXBRONC
06-20-2008, 07:26 PM
Do you have any evidence to back that statement up? I watched every game Sharpe played and don't ever remember seeing Lewis own him.

That's because middle linebackers rarely cover tight ends.

Ziggy
06-20-2008, 08:25 PM
That's because middle linebackers rarely cover tight ends.

They rarely do, but Lewis does stay on the field on third downs and Baltimore plays a lot of zone defense with Lewis covering the middle. What Natureboy says is possible in theory, but not reality, and I'm betting that he can't come up with any evidence to back up his statement.

Nature Boy
06-20-2008, 09:36 PM
That is irrelavent. I'm not talking about Elway and I'm not talking about Davis.

It would be rather hard for a Mike to cover a tight end and if fact under most circumstance they don't cover the tight end. So no I doubt he owned Sharpe.

I guess you didn't get my drift or you purposely chose not to because it did not support your original statement. You know, how you're trying to say that Ray Lewis is overrated and that he only benefited from all the great players around him. Well using your logic, one can say Elway benefited from Davis and Davis from his O-line and so forth. Not that I believe it myself but I'm playing your game.

See it sucks to split hairs doesn't it? As that's how all your post in reply to me has become. Even though you and I have become on opposite ends of our forum debates, you should at least makes your rebuttals to my comments somewhat relevant. Not just a clear and transparent intention of trying to discredit me.


Do you have any evidence to back that statement up? I watched every game Sharpe played and don't ever remember seeing Lewis own him.

Apparently, both you guys forget about the 2002 season, the 1st year Shannon Sharpe came back from his 2 year hiatus in Baltimore. Well, the big story line in the 2002 Broncos vs Ravens game was Shannon Sharpe vs his former Ravens teammates, particularly Ray Lewis.

I vividly remember the play where Shannon Sharpe did a hitch route down the short middle for a possible 1st down where Ray Lewis eagerly sat in wait. Just as Griese's ball got there, or maybe a split second before, Ray Lewis pushed Shannon from behind knocking the ball on the ground. Later Ray Lewis does the same exact thing to Mike Anderson, this time nabbing an INT. Two huge plays among many others that Ray Lewis made in that game resulting in a 23-34 Broncos defeat. Ray Lewis single handed owned the Broncos offense in that game. It was one of worst defeats suffered by a Broncos team, being down 31-3 by half time. It sits right next to the drubbing the Chargers gave us last year 41-3.

"I told the team just before we came out to follow me," said Lewis, who recorded 18 tackles, broke up two passes and made an interception. "Match my passion. Match my energy." *-in a Ray Lewis interview shortly after the game.

http://www.baltimoresun.com/sports/bal-sp.ravens01oct01001604,0,1700374.story

TXBRONC
06-20-2008, 10:13 PM
I guess you didn't get my drift or you purposely chose not to because it did not support your original statement. You know, how you're trying to say that Ray Lewis is overrated and that he only benefited from all the great players around him. Well I brought up the example of how Elway benefited from Davis and Davis from his O-line and so forth. Not that I believe it myself but I'm playing your game.

See it sucks to split hairs doesn't it as that how all your post reply to me has become. Even though you and I have become on opposite ends of our forum debates, you should at least makes your replies to my comments relevant.



Apparently, both you guys forget about the 2002 season, the 1st year Shannon Sharpe came back from his 2 year hiatus in Baltimore. Well, the big story line in the 2002 Broncos vs Ravens game was Shannon Sharpe vs his former Ravens teammates, particularly Ray Lewis.

I vividly remember the play where Shannon Sharpe did a hitch route down the short middle for a possible 1st down where Ray Lewis eagerly sat in wait. Just as Griese's ball got there, or a split second before, Ray Lewis pushed Shannon from behind knocking the ball on the ground. Later Ray Lewis does the same exact thing to Mike Anderson, this time nabbing an INT. Two huge plays among many others that Ray Lewis made in that game resulting in a 23-34 Broncos defeat. Ray Lewis single handed owned the Broncos offense in that game. It was one of worst defeats suffered by a Broncos team, being down 31-3 by half time. It sits right next to the drubbing the Chargers gave us last year 41-3.

"I told the team just before we came out to follow me," said Lewis, who recorded 18 tackles, broke up two passes and made an interception. "Match my passion. Match my energy." *-in a Ray Lewis interview shortly after the game.

http://www.baltimoresun.com/sports/bal-sp.ravens01oct01001604,0,1700374.story

No I didn't say Lewis is overrated nor did I imply it. All I said is that he had two big space eating defensive tackles in front of him. I did not say he was overrated.

Please the big story line was Sharpe going up against his former teammate Ray Lewis. First and foremost as it has been pointed out middle linebackers rarely cover the tight end. Second no it was not that big of deal, maybe it was to you but it non issue for me because I know Lewis wouldn't have coverage all night.

That being said, you seemed to be said saying earlier that Lewis owned Sharpe throughout his career which would be accurate, then you switch one play. Him getting the better of Sharpe on one play mean just he got the better of him on one play. Then you switched to how he made all kinds of play in one particular game. Good for him. I got news for ya he still didn't do it single handily.

Lewis has had very good talent around him for most of his career. Most importantly he's had big defensive tackles in front him so that he doesn't have fight off offensive line. It doesn't mean he's not a great player but don't give this line that he does it all by himself.

Ziggy
06-20-2008, 10:14 PM
Apparently, both you guys forget about the 2002 season, the 1st year Shannon Sharpe came back from his 2 year hiatus in Baltimore. Well, the big story line in the 2002 Broncos vs Ravens game was Shannon Sharpe vs his former Ravens teammates, particularly Ray Lewis.

I vividly remember the play where Shannon Sharpe did a hitch route down the short middle for a possible 1st down where Ray Lewis eagerly sat in wait. Just as Griese's ball got there, or maybe a split second before, Ray Lewis pushed Shannon from behind knocking the ball on the ground. Later Ray Lewis does the same exact thing to Mike Anderson, this time nabbing an INT. Two huge plays among many others that Ray Lewis made in that game resulting in a 23-34 Broncos defeat. Ray Lewis single handed owned the Broncos offense in that game. It was one of worst defeats suffered by a Broncos team, being down 31-3 by half time. It sits right next to the drubbing the Chargers gave us last year 41-3.

"I told the team just before we came out to follow me," said Lewis, who recorded 18 tackles, broke up two passes and made an interception. "Match my passion. Match my energy." *-in a Ray Lewis interview shortly after the game.

http://www.baltimoresun.com/sports/bal-sp.ravens01oct01001604,0,1700374.story



Yeah, that would be the game where Sharpe had 9 catches for 75 yards, but since Ray Lewis knocked down 1 pass to Sharpe, he owned him. Try again.

omac
06-20-2008, 10:20 PM
I don't know why I'm defending the guy but it's ridiculous to hear house Homers such as the 3 of you say Ray Lewis is lesser of a football player than he's credited with.

Where'd that come from? All TXBRONC said was that Ray Lewis had a great supporting cast on defense. He didn't say Ray Lewis wasn't any good. What I got from that is, in order for a Mike to be very successful, he'd need good help from players around him; i.e. if our DL allows everyone to run through, tough for even a very good mike to look good. And do you really think you should be using "house homers" to describe respected posters, when you yourself still have to live down your Travis Henry guarantee? ... that was just a little ribbing, man. :D :cheers:

TXBRONC
06-20-2008, 10:39 PM
Where'd that come from? All TXBRONC said was that Ray Lewis had a great supporting cast on defense. He didn't say Ray Lewis wasn't any good. What I got from that is, in order for a Mike to be very successful, he'd need good help from players around him; i.e. if our DL allows everyone to run through, tough for even a very good mike to look good. And do you really think you should be using "house homers" to describe respected posters, when you yourself still have to live down your Travis Henry guarantee? ... that was just a little ribbing, man. :D :cheers:


Thanks Omac. In tribute to you: :cheers:

Nature Boy
06-20-2008, 11:33 PM
No I didn't say Lewis is overrated nor did I imply it. All I said is that he had two big space eating defensive tackles in front of him. I did not say he was overrated.

Please the big story line was Sharpe going up against his former teammate Ray Lewis. First and foremost as it has been pointed out middle linebackers rarely cover the tight end. Second no it was not that big of deal, maybe it was to you but it non issue for me because I know Lewis wouldn't have coverage all night.

That being said, you seemed to be said saying earlier that Lewis owned Sharpe throughout his career which would be accurate, then you switch one play. Him getting the better of Sharpe on one play mean just he got the better of him on one play. Then you switched to how he made all kinds of play in one particular game. Good for him. I got news for ya he still didn't do it single handily.

Lewis has had very good talent around him for most of his career. Most importantly he's had big defensive tackles in front him so that he doesn't have fight off offensive line. It doesn't mean he's not a great player but don't give this line that he does it all by himself.

Man, I need a lawyer when discussing football or anything with you. Talk about splitting hairs.

I never said Ray Lewis owned Sharpe their out their career. Only in that game for that specific play which was closely spotlighted at the time making it's rounds all over ESPN and other sports media because of the 2 former teammates.


Yeah, that would be the game where Sharpe had 9 catches for 75 yards, but since Ray Lewis knocked down 1 pass to Sharpe, he owned him. Try again.

If you remember seeing that play, Ray Lewis MANHANDLED Shannon Sharpe. I was really shocked when I saw that because Shannon Sharpe is a muscle freak. That is why I say Sharpe got "owned" in my own critical opinion as I'm more critical on Broncos "greats" as I look at it closely.

Shortly after "owning" Sharpe, Ray Lewis owned Mike Anderson as well in a very similar short route up the middle in the same fashion but this time Ray Lewis ended up with an INT. I don't think I've ever seen a more dominant performance by a MLB in any single game.

Arguably, one can say Ray Lewis is the best MLB to ever play the game.

Ziggy
06-20-2008, 11:42 PM
Man, I need a lawyer when discussing football or anything with you. Talk about splitting hairs.

I never said Ray Lewis owned Sharpe their out their career. Only in that game for that specific play which was closely spotlighted at the time making it's rounds all over ESPN and other sports media because of the 2 former teammates.



If you remember seeing that play, Ray Lewis MANHANDLEDShannon Sharpe. I was really shocked when I saw that because Shannon Sharpe is a muscle freak. That is why I say Sharpe got "owned" in my own critical opinion as I'm more critical on Broncos "greats" as I look at it closely.

Shortly after "owning" Sharpe, Ray Lewis owned Mike Anderson as well in a very similar short route up the middle in the same fashion but this time Ray Lewis ended up with an INT. I don't think I've ever seen a more dominant performance by a MLB in any single game.

Arguably, one can say Ray Lewis is the best MLB to ever play the game.


I do remember the game. Sharpe owned Lewis and the Ravens D for all but 1 play. Think about it. 9 cathes for 75 yards. Over a 16 game season that would project to 144 catches for 1200 yards. Just because Ray Lewis had a great game and beat Sharpe on a single play, doesn't mean he owned Sharpe. Sharpe owned the Ravens, Ray Lewis and that D that game. Owning is about more than one play. Lewis may have owned the Broncos offense as a whole that game, but to say he owned Sharpe that game is utterly ridiculous.

MOtorboat
06-20-2008, 11:48 PM
Man, I need a lawyer when discussing football or anything with you. Talk about splitting hairs.

I never said Ray Lewis owned Sharpe their out their career. Only in that game for that specific play which was closely spotlighted at the time making it's rounds all over ESPN and other sports media because of the 2 former teammates.



If you remember seeing that play, Ray Lewis MANHANDLED Shannon Sharpe. I was really shocked when I saw that because Shannon Sharpe is a muscle freak. That is why I say Sharpe got "owned" in my own critical opinion as I'm more critical on Broncos "greats" as I look at it closely.

Shortly after "owning" Sharpe, Ray Lewis owned Mike Anderson as well in a very similar short route up the middle in the same fashion but this time Ray Lewis ended up with an INT. I don't think I've ever seen a more dominant performance by a MLB in any single game.

Arguably, one can say Ray Lewis is the best MLB to ever play the game.

You've seriously broke this down to one play. ONE play?

Good lord.

Talk about backtracking. Talk about making a statement and having not a clue what one is talking about one bit.

But, hey, how's Travis Henry doing?

Nature Boy
06-20-2008, 11:49 PM
No I didn't say Lewis is overrated nor did I imply it. All I said is that he had two big space eating defensive tackles in front of him. I did not say he was overrated.




Where'd that come from? All TXBRONC said was that Ray Lewis had a great supporting cast on defense. He didn't say Ray Lewis wasn't any good. What I got from that is, in order for a Mike to be very successful, he'd need good help from players around him; i.e. if our DL allows everyone to run through, tough for even a very good mike to look good. And do you really think you should be using "house homers" to describe respected posters, when you yourself still have to live down your Travis Henry guarantee? ... that was just a little ribbing, man. :D :cheers:

Well I go to say Ray Lewis was the best MLB through out most his careers and 3 guys immediately point out how Ray Lewis was surrounded by great NTs, safeties, corners and what have you. Logic tells me that their implying Ray Lewis is only great due to his supporting cast. Hence I said what I said.

About Ole Travis. Well too bad he and Mike Shanahan could not get along due to his attitude. Travis Henry would have had a heck of a year for us with our improved Oline. Now we are stuck with a bunch of scrubs battling it out in the RB stable.

MOtorboat
06-20-2008, 11:52 PM
Well I go to say Ray Lewis was the best MLB through out most his careers and 3 guys immediately point out how Ray Lewis was surrounded by great NTs, safeties, corners and what have you. Logic tells me that their implying Ray Lewis is only great due to his supporting cast. Hence I said what I said.

No....YOU said he owned Shannon. You were proved wrong so you diverted your argument. Very, very typical.

To even suggest that Ray Lewis owned Shannon Sharpe is, frankly preposterous. You do realize that Ray Lewis was in his fourth year (or so), while Shannon was in his 14th.

What a stupid, stupid argument, and what a way to backtrack. Own up to being an idiot...or maybe....quit making stupid arguments.


About Ole Travis. Well too bad he and Mike Shanahan could not get along due to his attitude. Travis Henry would have had a heck of a year for us with our improved Oline. Now we are stuck with a bunch of scrubs battling it out in the RB stable.

Eat your crow**edit**.

TXBRONC
06-20-2008, 11:59 PM
Man, I need a lawyer when discussing football or anything with you. Talk about splitting hairs.

I never said Ray Lewis owned Sharpe their out their career. Only in that game for that specific play which was closely spotlighted at the time making it's rounds all over ESPN and other sports media because of the 2 former teammates.

This is what I said:


That being said, you seemed to be said saying earlier that Lewis owned Sharpe throughout his career which wouldn't be accurate, then you switch one play. Him getting the better of Sharpe on one play mean just he got the better of him on one play. Then you switched to how he made all kinds of play in one particular game. Good for him. I got news for ya he still didn't do it single handily.

I was under the impression that what you meant from earlier post that Lewis had owned Sharpe throughout their careers.

It would behooves us both to go back to discussing Koutouvides.

Ziggy
06-20-2008, 11:59 PM
Well I go to say Ray Lewis was the best MLB through out most his careers and 3 guys immediately point out how Ray Lewis was surrounded by great NTs, safeties, corners and what have you. Logic tells me that their implying Ray Lewis is only great due to his supporting cast. Hence I said what I said.



No, a statement saying that Ray Lewis is arguably the best MLB in all of football isn't a ridiculous statement. He's a first ballot HOF'er and a great great player. The problem is that when you are challenged, you start coming out with ridiculous statements like Lewis owning Shannon Sharpe. Then when proven wrong you have to backtrack and basically say that he owned him for one play. At that point, you begin to lose credibility. I remember when Howard Griffith pancaked Lewis on a block. Does that mean that Griffith owned Lewis? Not in the least. Back your statements up with intelligent arguments and you won't have 3 people jumping down your throat. I'm a fan of Ray Lewis myself. I don't think he's the greatest MLB of all time, but I can see where it's debateable. Just use some common sense and fewer blanket statements in your debates, and you'll get a lot less flack around here.

Nature Boy
06-21-2008, 12:00 AM
No....YOU said he owned Shannon. You were proved wrong so you diverted your argument. Very, very typical.

To even suggest that Ray Lewis owned Shannon Sharpe is, frankly preposterous. You do realize that Ray Lewis was in his fourth year (or so), while Shannon was in his 14th.

What a stupid, stupid argument, and what a way to backtrack. Own up to being an idiot...or maybe....quit making stupid arguments.



Eat your crow***edit**.

WOW! ***edit**.. Go back and read the part about why I said Ray Lewis owned Shannon Sharpe because he did for that specific play in that specific game. ***edit**.

dogfish
06-21-2008, 12:00 AM
http://img514.imageshack.us/img514/773/feedtrollsbt2.gif

Ziggy
06-21-2008, 12:03 AM
This is what I said:



I was under the impression that what you meant from earlier post that Lewis had owned Sharpe throughout their careers.

It would behooves us both to go back to discussing Koutouvides.


Agreed.....how about :focus:?

I hope Kootie turns out to be a beast. We need a leader in the middle of the D again.

MOtorboat
06-21-2008, 12:04 AM
WOW! you're a stupid dipshit. Go back and read the part about why I said Ray Lewis owned Shannon Sharpe because he did for that specific play in that specific game. ***edit**..

Yeah, I read it.

One play. One friggin' play.

You have been totally outed on this, and you just keep spouting your mouth.

Grow up, and grow a pair. If you want to make bold statements, you better know what the hell you are talking about.

Nature Boy
06-21-2008, 12:08 AM
. The problem is that when you are challenged, you start coming out with ridiculous statements like Lewis owning Shannon Sharpe. Then when proven wrong you have to backtrack and basically say that he owned him for one play. At that point, you begin to lose credibility. I remember when Howard Griffith pancaked Lewis on a block. Does that mean that Griffith owned Lewis? Not in the least. Back your statements up with intelligent arguments and you won't have 3 people jumping down your throat. I'm a fan of Ray Lewis myself. I don't think he's the greatest MLB of all time, but I can see where it's debateable. Just use some common sense and fewer blanket statements in your debates, and you'll get a lot less flack around here.

I'm gonna tell you the same as Missouri minus the slander. Go back and read the part about why I think Ray Lewis own Shannon Sharpe because he did and with the spotlight on those 2 guys in that game, everyone in the nation knew it. I have interpretations just as you have yours.

I also showed proved to the 2-3 guys who question that such a play ever existed based on the fact that MLBs rarely covered TEs. When 22 guys are running around in an enclosed area, all sorts of match ups will occur and you doubt that I can find the evidence to back up my claim and I just did.

Thanks for playing.

MOtorboat
06-21-2008, 12:10 AM
Ray Lewis is easily the best MLB through out most of his career and he's still one of the top behind only a 1 or 2 guys. I still remember how he absolutely owned Shannan Sharpe, one of the best TEs to ever play the game.

You clearly can't remember what you said.

It was one play. One play in a game where Shannon Sharpe owned the Baltimore defense.

You got called out, and you can't handle it.

Nature Boy
06-21-2008, 12:10 AM
Yeah, I read it.

One play. One friggin' play.

You have been totally outed on this, and you just keep spouting your mouth.

Grow up, and grow a pair. If you want to make bold statements, you better know what the hell you are talking about.

If you knew how to read and think, then you would have understood what I wrote.

MOtorboat
06-21-2008, 12:14 AM
If you knew how to read and think, then you would have understood what I wrote.

I have quoted your thoughts. Please explain them.

You've said he got owned on one play. Other than that you've provided no basis for your argument.

Nature Boy
06-21-2008, 12:16 AM
You clearly can't remember what you said.

It was one play. One play in a game where Shannon Sharpe owned the Baltimore defense.

You got called out, and you can't handle it.

What are you yapping about? Go to sleep so you can grow up. Then maybe you can understand some of what I posted. What you have quoted of me and what you posted above makes zero sense.

It's too late for you out there in the middle of the country.

Nature Boy
06-21-2008, 12:19 AM
I have quoted your thoughts. Please explain them.

You've said he got owned on one play. Other than that you've provided no basis for your argument.

Sharpe did get owned by Ray Lewis in that one play and I supported it all with nothing but evidence. You just can't read or understand it.

Ziggy
06-21-2008, 12:19 AM
I have quoted your thoughts. Please explain them.

You've said he got owned on one play. Other than that you've provided no basis for your argument.



We just need to drop this argument MB. It's a lot like mud wrestling with a pig.....you both get dirty, but the pig enjoys it because he's too stupid to know when he's been beaten.

MOtorboat
06-21-2008, 12:20 AM
Ray Lewis is easily the best MLB through out most of his career and he's still one of the top behind only a 1 or 2 guys. I still remember how he absolutely owned Shannan Sharpe, one of the best TEs to ever play the game.

What part did I misread?

Nature Boy
06-21-2008, 12:34 AM
What part did I misread?

The part about how Ray Lewis is easily the best MLB through out most of his career and he's still one of the top behind only a 1 or 2 guys. I still remember how he absolutely owned Shannan Sharpe, one of the best TEs to ever play the game.

If you knew how to read correctly, I never said Ray Lewis owned Shannon Sharpe through out Shannon's career. I was talking about 1 instance and I made that point pretty clear in following post after post.

TxBronc made the same mistake but he was smart enough to understand when he went back to reexamine the words as he stated below in the quote.

Maybe you might wanna do the same after you smack yourself in the head 1st to wake up.




I was under the impression that what you meant from earlier post that Lewis had owned Sharpe throughout their careers.

Lonestar
06-21-2008, 01:16 AM
And John Elway would tell you his success had a lot tp do with Terrel Davis' ability to run the ball. Then TD would tell you his success had a lot to do with a great Oline and run system. Get my drift?

Ray Lewis is easily the best MLB through out most of his career and he's still one of the top behind only a 1 or 2 guys. I still remember how he absolutely owned Shannan Sharpe, one of the best TEs to ever play the game.


This is the post in question.. that should end all the arguments about this..

Get :focus:

or I close the thread..

omac
06-21-2008, 01:22 AM
The part about how Ray Lewis is easily the best MLB through out most of his career and he's still one of the top behind only a 1 or 2 guys. I still remember how he absolutely owned Shannan Sharpe, one of the best TEs to ever play the game.

If you knew how to read correctly, I never said Ray Lewis owned Shannon Sharpe through out Shannon's career. I was talking about 1 instance and I made that point pretty clear in following post after post.

TxBronc made the same mistake but he was smart enough to understand when he went back to reexamine the words as he stated below in the quote.

Maybe you might wanna do the same after you smack yourself in the head 1st to wake up.

Actually, from your initial statement about how Lewis absolutely owned Sharpe, that's like when people used to say the Pats owned Peyton and the Colts; it does not imply one game, nor one play. The word owning, by itself, means ownership, a more permanent term than say borrowing.

When you mentioned the game, at worst people will read into it that for that one game, Lewis owned Sharpe.

From owning Sharpe every time they meet, to owning Sharpe in that one game, and now ... owning Sharpe in one play, that's going from one spectrum to another. If you meant one play, then you could've mentioned initially, "that one play where Lewis owned Sharpe." In that case, a whole lot of players have that "one play" where they "owned" a great player. Heck, take Elway ... a ton of players have owned Elway with a sack, at least on one play.

On the Travis Henry issue, I still believe he has good talent. I don't think it's because he couldn't get along with Shanny. He had excuses for not working, and Shanny and any other coach would get rid of him for that. He needs to adjust his attitude. To do what he did after Shanny spent the majority of last season backing him after every incident, it just shows ungratefulnes.

omac
06-21-2008, 01:23 AM
This is the post in question.. that should end all the arguments about this..

Get :focus:

or I close the thread..

Sorry, I was posting as you were posting.

Back on topic, I think Niko will do just fine. :cheers:

Lonestar
06-21-2008, 01:30 AM
Sorry, I was posting as you were posting.

Back on topic, I think Niko will do just fine. :cheers:

It happens so not to worry..

yes I think that Niko will do the job would I rather have Gradishar absolutely.

But IF Robertson and new kid (late draftee) come in and help to make an impact with Thomas and McKinney along with the last two years worth of drafted DE's then the LB will be catching a few tackle at or near the LOS unlike last year when they were getting them 7 yards deep on our side of the LOS..

I;m not yet thinking playoff let alone Superbowl with all the changes in schemes personnel and coaching.. But if they come together quickly this defense could be something real special in two three years..

dogfish
06-21-2008, 01:59 AM
yes I think that Niko will do the job would I rather have Gradishar absolutely.




you got to watch him play live, didn't you?


lucky SOB. . . :tsk:

Ziggy
06-21-2008, 02:03 AM
you got to watch him play live, didn't you?


lucky SOB. . . :tsk:

Gradishar was a great player, but the one I really loved to watch back then was Tom Jackson. He played with more fire than any person who ever wore the Broncos uniform IMO.

Lonestar
06-21-2008, 02:11 AM
you got to watch him play live, didn't you?


lucky SOB. . . :tsk:


Gradishar was a great player, but the one I really loved to watch back then was Tom Jackson. He played with more fire than any person who ever wore the Broncos uniform IMO.

Yep both were great but so was Rizzo and Swenson.

Randy was the best MLB I've personally saw ever saw.. and Jackson the best OLB could run with anyone..


Met Randy several times as he was a spokesman for a Dodge dealer my company did alot of business with.. At one time I had a 1977 team ball autographed by the entire team.. .. Randy got it for me.. some how that got lost in the first divorce..

dogfish
06-21-2008, 02:12 AM
At one time I had a 1977 team ball autographed by the entire team.. .. Randy got it for me.. some how that got lost in the first divorce..


ouch!

LordTrychon
06-21-2008, 02:13 AM
ouch!

That doesn't quite cover it. Wow. :tsk:

Lonestar
06-21-2008, 02:25 AM
ouch!


I walked out of that 11 year marriage with two suitcases.. I did get my chefs knives back a few years ago.. but "no one" knows what happened to that Game ball. It was signed right before the Superbowl game.. But did not get it for a few weeks after the loss..

Yep that was a bummer I would really like to know how much that ball is worth today..

No I really do not want to.. would really make me cry.

Nature Boy
06-21-2008, 02:43 AM
I personally never seen Niko Koutouvides play or at least I never paid attention enough to where his name stuck out. The last thing I read about him is Nate Webster is running with the 1st team ahead of Niko. This tells me he isn't playing as well as Nate for whatever reason.

Not counting last year, the Broncos run defense have always been ranked in 5th or 6th in the league under Shanahan's tenure. The Broncos defense always had fast athletic linebackers; fastest in the league in fact with Al Wilson being the constant. Niko is completely the opposite being that he is bigger and slower with questionable athleticism.

Before I can really past judgment on Niko, I would have to see him in a live game. But from the way things look right now, I don't think Niko is the answer the Broncos are looking for in the mike-backer position.

Maybe and hopefully next year, the Broncos can pluck a Ray Lewis like MLB out the draft.


I do remember the game. Sharpe owned Lewis and the Ravens D for all but 1 play. Think about it. 9 cathes for 75 yards. Over a 16 game season that would project to 144 catches for 1200 yards. Just because Ray Lewis had a great game and beat Sharpe on a single play, doesn't mean he owned Sharpe. Sharpe owned the Ravens, Ray Lewis and that D that game. Owning is about more than one play. Lewis may have owned the Broncos offense as a whole that game, but to say he owned Sharpe that game is utterly ridiculous.

You have your opinion and I have mine. For that specific play where Ray Lewis "owned" Shannon Sharpe stuck out the most as everyone was looking for that match up. In short, that play alone represented the dynamics of the whole game itself as the Ravens practically "man handled" the Broncos just as Ray Lewis "man handled" Shannon Sharpe.

Ray Lewis recorded 18 tackles, broke up two passes and made an interception

VS

Shannon Sharpe's 9 cathes for 75 yards.

With all the jaw flapping, hoopla and attention on the 2 players the week leading up to that game, I'd say Ray Lewis "OWNED" Shannon Sharpe. Actually, you can say Ray Lewis "OWNED" the whole Broncos offense. You can also Brian Billick "OWNED" Mike Shanahan.

"They just kicked our butts in every phase," Dalton said. "Brian Billick has [Denver coach] Mike Shanahan's number. He owns him. They were ready to play and we weren't. We made their season. They just won their Super Bowl." -In the words of Lional Dalton, Broncos starting DT in 2002




From owning Sharpe every time they meet, to owning Sharpe in that one game, and now ... owning Sharpe in one play, that's going from one spectrum to another. If you meant one play, then you could've mentioned initially, "that one play where Lewis owned Sharpe."

Apparently you also need help in reading comprehension. I never said anything about Lewis owing Sharpe every time they met. I agree that Lewis did "OWNED" Sharpe for that that game mostly credited to that play and the outcome of that entire game.


Actually, from your initial statement about how Lewis absolutely owned Sharpe, that's like when people used to say the Pats owned Peyton and the Colts; it does not imply one game, nor one play. The word owning, by itself, means ownership, a more permanent term than say borrowing.



The word "OWNED" is a loosely used word or phrase used mainly by young people to describe when someone or something was completely dominated in some fashion. In the topic of conversation that I unknowingly started, It's clear that I used it in the most perfect way.




When you mentioned the game, at worst people will read into it that for that one game, Lewis owned Sharpe.


See, at last you agree with me. :D :welcome:

omac
06-21-2008, 06:10 AM
Apparently you also need help in reading comprehension. I never said anything about Lewis owing Sharpe every time they met. I agree that Lewis did "OWNED" Sharpe for that that game mostly credited to that play and the outcome of that entire game.

Well, there you go again. You did not mention in your original statement that he owned Sharpe for only one play. You did say owned, and since Sharpe played in the past and is no longer playing, ofcourse you can't use use it in a current sense.

Everyone here agrees with me that your statement had nothing to do with just one play. You saying it again and again won't change that.

No matter, I also think Ray Lewis will go down as one of the best ever. :cheers:

turftoad
06-21-2008, 02:03 PM
From Pro Football Weekly "whispers"

The Broncos paid Niko Koutouvides starter’s money when they signed him to a three-year, $7.5 million contract in March. Yet, we hear he hasn’t pulled away in the race to become the starting middle linebacker, though Denver would like him to. Nate Webster, who started on the strong side last year, has been rotating with Koutouvides on the first-team defense.

Lonestar
06-21-2008, 02:04 PM
Well, there you go again. You did not mention in your original statement that he owned Sharpe for only one play. You did say owned, and since Sharpe played in the past and is no longer playing, ofcourse you can't use use it in a current sense.

Everyone here agrees with me that your statement had nothing to do with just one play. You saying it again and again won't change that.

No matter, I also think Ray Lewis will go down as one of the best ever. :cheers:


You have to remember many of the members here grew up in the cliton era where the premise was if you repeat something enough it becomes true..

When he used the term owned it was that lewis owned Sharpe.. the context was clear to everyone here but NB.. who could not admit to the mistake he made... Sometimes it is time to cut your losses and fess up.. I think the term is MAN UP.

dogfish
06-21-2008, 02:18 PM
You have to remember many of the members here grew up in the cliton era where the premise was if you repeat something enough it becomes true..

When he used the term owned it was that lewis owned Sharpe.. the context was clear to everyone here but NB.. who could not admit to the mistake he made... Sometimes it is time to cut your losses and fess up.. I think the term is MAN UP.


too many kids today have no idea how to do that. . . they'd rather deny everything and put any kind of spin on it other than admitting they were wrong. . .



if worst comes to worst with niko, we go out and address the position with a 1st day pick next year, and niko gives us a solid backup and quality special teamer for '09 and '10. . . . we had more holes than we could realistically fix through one draft, so i don't blame the team for trying to bring in a few stopgap types. . . at least niko is a young, hardnosed player instead of a washed up, over the hill used-to-be big name. . . .

LordTrychon
06-21-2008, 02:25 PM
too many kids today have no idea how to do that. . . they'd rather deny everything and put any kind of spin on it other than admitting they were wrong. . .



if worst comes to worst with niko, we go out and address the position with a 1st day pick next year, and niko gives us a solid backup and quality special teamer for '09 and '10. . . . we had more holes than we could realistically fix through one draft, so i don't blame the team for trying to bring in a few stopgap types. . . at least niko is a young, hardnosed player instead of a washed up, over the hill used-to-be big name. . . .

Yeah, I don't mind waiting another year to draft the next Al Wilson, if that's what it comes to. :salute:

Devilspawn
06-21-2008, 03:26 PM
I think that because Fargas had success in the last meeting, he will get 25 carries in the first game. Kiffin will most likely let McFadden get 15 touches. I do know that they will most likely run a great deal.

TXBRONC
06-21-2008, 04:41 PM
too many kids today have no idea how to do that. . . they'd rather deny everything and put any kind of spin on it other than admitting they were wrong. . .



if worst comes to worst with niko, we go out and address the position with a 1st day pick next year, and niko gives us a solid backup and quality special teamer for '09 and '10. . . . we had more holes than we could realistically fix through one draft, so i don't blame the team for trying to bring in a few stopgap types. . . at least niko is a young, hardnosed player instead of a washed up, over the hill used-to-be big name. . . .

I couldn't agree more. We're still better off with having Niko on the team rather than some aging linebacker who is well past his prime.

Nature Boy
06-21-2008, 05:09 PM
Well, there you go again. You did not mention in your original statement that he owned Sharpe for only one play. You did say owned, and since Sharpe played in the past and is no longer playing, ofcourse you can't use use it in a current sense.

Everyone here agrees with me that your statement had nothing to do with just one play. You saying it again and again won't change that.

No matter, I also think Ray Lewis will go down as one of the best ever. :cheers:

Go find that post of mines where I said anything other wise. It's you and your buddies who do not know how to read correctly.

broncogirl7
06-21-2008, 05:18 PM
It's too early to determine Niko's affectiveness. I like him rotating with Webster, but look forward to the season starting. It will be easier to analyze what kind of player he will be and how affective he will be in that position.

Nature Boy
06-21-2008, 05:20 PM
You have to remember many of the members here grew up in the cliton era where the premise was if you repeat something enough it becomes true..

When he used the term owned it was that lewis owned Sharpe.. the context was clear to everyone here but NB.. who could not admit to the mistake he made... Sometimes it is time to cut your losses and fess up.. I think the term is MAN UP.

Apparently you're like the Oracle in the movie The Matrix around here. The all knowing, the final definitive say that is true to all.

Here is exactly what I posted. Where from that did I say Ray Lewis owned Shannon Sharpe through out Shannon's career?


And John Elway would tell you his success had a lot tp do with Terrel Davis' ability to run the ball. Then TD would tell you his success had a lot to do with a great Oline and run system. Get my drift?

Ray Lewis is easily the best MLB through out most of his career and he's still one of the top behind only a 1 or 2 guys. I still remember how he absolutely owned Shannan Sharpe, one of the best TEs to ever play the game.

Well Oracle of the site, please explain.

It's more like the 3-4 of you guys lack the reading comprehension to understand what I wrote and complete jumped off the deep end in protest.

Lonestar
06-21-2008, 05:22 PM
Go find that post of mines where I said anything other wise. It's you and your buddies who do not know how to read correctly.


perhaps this one you'll take credit for


And John Elway would tell you his success had a lot tp do with Terrel Davis' ability to run the ball. Then TD would tell you his success had a lot to do with a great Oline and run system. Get my drift?

Ray Lewis is easily the best MLB through out most of his career and he's still one of the top behind only a 1 or 2 guys. I still remember how he absolutely owned Shannan Sharpe, one of the best TEs to ever play the game.

that post stated he owned Sharpe.. not in a particular game but owned him.. period..

after being called on it then you back tracked and tried to spin it but that one post nails you..

time to man up..

Nature Boy
06-21-2008, 05:23 PM
From Pro Football Weekly "whispers"

The Broncos paid Niko Koutouvides starter’s money when they signed him to a three-year, $7.5 million contract in March. Yet, we hear he hasn’t pulled away in the race to become the starting middle linebacker, though Denver would like him to. Nate Webster, who started on the strong side last year, has been rotating with Koutouvides on the first-team defense.

Is this a fact? Very interesting. I guess Niko is just not as good as Nate Webster just as I've been suspecting from the start.

Nature Boy
06-21-2008, 05:26 PM
perhaps this one you'll take credit for



that post stated he owned Sharpe.. not in a particular game but owned him.. period..

after being called on it then you back tracked and tried to spin it but that one post nails you..

time to man up..

Did I say he Ray Lewis owned Shannon Sharpe through out Shannon's career? No, you guys just don't understand reading comprehension.

I backed up everything I said with stats. Go back and read.

Lonestar
06-21-2008, 05:29 PM
Apparently you're like the Oracle in the movie The Matrix around here. The all knowing, the final definitive say that is true to all.

Here is exactly what I posted. Where from that did I say Ray Lewis owned Shannon Sharpe through out Shannon's career?



Well Oracle of the site, please explain.

It's more like the 3-4 of you guys lack the reading comprehension to understand what I wrote and complete jumped off the deep end in protest.


NO it is your attitude you stated owned did not qualify when or where or anything.. for one game or two or anytime any where.. OWNED..

Owned.. means owned not on a single play.

You may think you have stated it well but you did not.. You did not qualify it, till well into getting called on it..

The you went into the spin cycle "I never said that" you can't comprehend what I wrote....

won't wash here we all see you for what you are..

Lonestar
06-21-2008, 05:31 PM
Did I say he Ray Lewis owned Shannon Sharpe through out Shannon's career? No, you guys just don't understand reading comprehension.

I backed up everything I said with stats. Go back and read.

No pal it is you that does not understanding writing..

Once posted your caught with your pants down.. never to be forgotten, by all but you....

Now get back to the topic or stop posting ..


Koutouvides will have something special for McFadden ...


:focus:

Lonestar
06-21-2008, 06:09 PM
:focus:


he should be a good player perhaps not an Al Wilson in his early days type but.. good MLB that has enough speed, skill and desire to make tackles not big hit hope they fall down stops.. like Al did the past 3-4 years..

If he is not then FA calls as does the draft next year..

TXBRONC
06-21-2008, 10:30 PM
Did I say he Ray Lewis owned Shannon Sharpe through out Shannon's career? No, you guys just don't understand reading comprehension.

I backed up everything I said with stats. Go back and read.

Why don't take some good advice and get back on track rather taking shots people just because they disagree with you.

By the way I haven't seen any stats from you concerning Koutouvides.

omac
06-21-2008, 11:40 PM
From Pro Football Weekly "whispers"

The Broncos paid Niko Koutouvides starter’s money when they signed him to a three-year, $7.5 million contract in March. Yet, we hear he hasn’t pulled away in the race to become the starting middle linebacker, though Denver would like him to. Nate Webster, who started on the strong side last year, has been rotating with Koutouvides on the first-team defense.

I hope he does pull away. It's still pretty early, and this guy sounds like a fighter.

Nature Boy
06-22-2008, 04:14 AM
Why don't good advice and get back on track rather taking shots people just because they disagree with you.

By the way I haven't seen any stats from you concerning Koutouvides.

You haven't? Apparently you have a habit of reading only what you select.




I personally never seen Niko Koutouvides play or at least I never paid attention enough to where his name stuck out. The last thing I read about him is Nate Webster is running with the 1st team ahead of Niko. This tells me he isn't playing as well as Nate for whatever reason.

Not counting last year, the Broncos run defense have always been ranked in 5th or 6th in the league under Shanahan's tenure. The Broncos defense always had fast athletic linebackers; fastest in the league in fact with Al Wilson being the constant. Niko is completely the opposite being that he is bigger and slower with questionable athleticism.

Before I can really past judgment on Niko, I would have to see him in a live game. But from the way things look right now, I don't think Niko is the answer the Broncos are looking for in the mike-backer position.

Maybe and hopefully next year, the Broncos can pluck a Ray Lewis like MLB out the draft.

underrated29
06-24-2008, 02:08 PM
ok- see my sig. Like dog said, malauga, larinitis will be our guy next year, unless kootie plays lights out, or torain and young and pittman cant cut it. Then we go after wells.


Just and fyi, at the start of our camps all the vets get the starting rolls over the rooks and new guys- So even if webby is in there first, dont take it as a sign that he isnt good enough. THe vets get the first shot at starting.

But- you do have to worry a littl bit about what pfw said about him not pulling away. But lets wait until they don the pads. Thats when players really shine.

Nature Boy
08-02-2008, 06:39 PM
Niko sucks. He can't even outplay Nate Webster aka Mr. Whiff. The MLB may be achillies heal on this Broncos defense as it was always the strength with Al Wilson.

Jwalk - JayCutty6Goes - CasinoRoyal
08-02-2008, 06:40 PM
Niko sucks. He can't even outplay Nate Webster aka Mr. Whiff. The MLB may be achillies heal on this Broncos defense as it was always the strength with Al Wilson.

I think were seeing Nate shine because Nate is back at his natural position which is MLB. Nate is out shining Niko right now in camp but Niko has been good also.

Jwalk - JayCutty6Goes - CasinoRoyal
08-02-2008, 06:41 PM
Dont undervalue the DJ back at weakside move also. That will help take our defense to another level with him getting to operate in space again as he did his rookie year.

Nature Boy
08-02-2008, 06:47 PM
Unless DJ is gonna play both the Middle and weak side at the same time, little Nate is not gonna hold it down like we want him to.

Jwalk - JayCutty6Goes - CasinoRoyal
08-02-2008, 06:50 PM
I still dont think Nate starts. I think Niko wins the job.

Nature Boy
08-02-2008, 06:58 PM
I still dont think Nate starts. I think Niko wins the job.

Camp performances say other wise.

Rey Maualuga in the 2009 draft please.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=owXgLCbw5YU

.

Jwalk - JayCutty6Goes - CasinoRoyal
08-02-2008, 06:59 PM
Tayler Mays next year plzzzzz. Or knowshon Moreno.

Fan in Exile
08-02-2008, 07:37 PM
Since both are getting pulled in nickle and dime packages I'm not that worried about the MLB slot. I just hope Boss stays healthy.

Nature Boy
08-02-2008, 09:02 PM
Since both are getting pulled in nickle and dime packages I'm not that worried about the MLB slot. I just hope Boss stays healthy.


Al Wilson used to play all 3 downs along with Gold while DJ got yanked in nickel and dime packages.

Are you sure it's gonna be the MLB that gets yanked this season?

Nature Boy
08-02-2008, 09:03 PM
Tayler Mays next year plzzzzz. Or knowshon Moreno.


In the 1st round ahead of Rey Muauluga? I don't think so.

Fan in Exile
08-02-2008, 09:26 PM
Al Wilson used to play all 3 downs along with Gold while DJ got yanked in nickel and dime packages.

Are you sure it's gonna be the MLB that gets yanked this season?

Yeppers, it's the way training camp has gone.

Nature Boy
08-02-2008, 09:38 PM
Not surprised Nate Webster is not on the passing defensive packages. I wouldn't put him on the field at all if I can help it. Goes to show how lousy our middle-linebackers really are, especially Niko.

tubby
08-02-2008, 09:50 PM
Frank Gore and that fullback think Nate Webster rules.

Nature Boy
08-02-2008, 10:07 PM
Nate Webster thought Travis Henry ruled. Read article about N. Wester raving about Travis Henry. Too bad Travis can't be here.

Jwalk - JayCutty6Goes - CasinoRoyal
08-02-2008, 11:07 PM
In the 1st round ahead of Rey Muauluga? I don't think so.

Taylor Mays= Sean Taylor all over again.

Nature Boy
08-03-2008, 12:13 AM
Taylor Mays= Sean Taylor all over again.

Rey Muauluga is the best player on that USC defense, not Travis Mays. So hypothetically if given the opportunity, why would anyone draft Mays ahead of Muauluga?

Jwalk - JayCutty6Goes - CasinoRoyal
08-03-2008, 12:24 AM
Rey Muauluga is the best player on that USC defense, not Travis Mays. So hypothetically if given the opportunity, why would anyone draft Mays ahead of Muauluga?

Because him and Myron Rolle are cant miss prospects. Thats not taking anything away from Ray. But Broncos havent had a impact safety like that in so long. MLB wont be that much of an issue. However going 14-2 will put the Broncos out of reach for all those guys.

Nature Boy
08-03-2008, 01:33 AM
Because him and Myron Rolle are cant miss prospects. Thats not taking anything away from Ray. But Broncos havent had a impact safety like that in so long. MLB wont be that much of an issue. However going 14-2 will put the Broncos out of reach for all those guys.


That is not the point. The point is after pointing out the fact that the Broncos suck at the Mike-backer position, I wishfully suggested that we draft Rey Muauluga if given the chance but you butt in and suggested that we draft Knoshawn Mereno or Taylor Mays as if they were better players. We need a stud Mikelinebacker just as bad as we need a great safety or a RB. And that is the point.

Now I'm gonna sit back and watch you start spinning again.

.

MOtorboat
08-03-2008, 01:35 AM
Good lord...suggesting we draft anyone in next year's draft is just stupid...:rolleyes:

Nature Boy
08-03-2008, 01:43 AM
Just speculating and Rey Muauluga is just wishful thinking. Some experts have Muauluga as the 1st overall pick in the 09 draft as it stands right now.

The Broncos need a super middle linebacker to fill the void left by Al Wilson. Niko and Nate are not long term solutions for our defense.

Jwalk - JayCutty6Goes - CasinoRoyal
08-03-2008, 02:19 AM
That is not the point. The point is after pointing out the fact that the Broncos suck at the Mike-backer position, I wishfully suggested that we draft Rey Muauluga if given the chance but you butt in and suggested that we draft Knoshawn Mereno or Taylor Mays as if they were better players. We need a stud Mikelinebacker just as bad as we need a great safety or a RB. And that is the point.

Now I'm gonna sit back and watch you start spinning again.

.

They are better players, You say we are so weak at MLb as if we have Ed Reed at Safety.:coffee:

Mays and Rolle are the better players.:coffee:

Jwalk - JayCutty6Goes - CasinoRoyal
08-03-2008, 02:20 AM
Just speculating and Rey Muauluga is just wishful thinking. Some experts have Muauluga as the 1st overall pick in the 09 draft as it stands right now.

The Broncos need a super middle linebacker to fill the void left by Al Wilson. Niko and Nate are not long tern solutions for our defense.

Explain to everybody why there not. I guess mother nature gave nature boy some super human powers.:lol:

Nature Boy
08-03-2008, 02:45 AM
They are better players, You say we are so weak at MLb as if we have Ed Reed at Safety.:coffee:

Mays and Rolle are the better players.:coffee:


Rolle and Mays are better players than Rey Muauluga? I think you need to study some USC game films Coach. I live in California and I follow the Pac-10 closely; closer than you. Go ask any college FB fan that knows anything about college football and ask them who is the best defensive player on the current USC squad and they will say Rey Muauluga hands down.

I see that you post a lot but I also see that you don't put much logical sense into your opinions. Like I've already posted above, one site already has Rey Muauluga as the #1 over pick in the 2009 draft although early as it is.

"--Linebacker Rey Maualuga is the cornerstone of the Trojan defense heading into the 2008 season, and he showed why with his exceptional leadership skills and tackling abilities throughout the spring. The two-time all-Pac-10 defender had 79 tackles, 10.5 for losses and six sacks last season. He might be the first player drafted next year."

http://www.sportsline.com/collegefootball/teams/report/USC/10902873

*************************

Jwalk - JayCutty6Goes - CasinoRoyal
08-03-2008, 02:49 AM
Yeah i know a MLB is going number one overall. Lol. Dont tell me about opinions and then go and try to prove your point by posting what some other guy with an opinion thinks.

But it really does not matter your boy wont be a Bronco. Might want to make another wishlist.

Nature Boy
08-03-2008, 02:53 AM
The Broncos need a super middle linebacker to fill the void left by Al Wilson. Niko and Nate are not long tern solutions for our defense.


Explain to everybody why there not. I guess mother nature gave nature boy some super human powers.:lol:

Because Nate Webster is getting old, he very small for an NFL MLB, and although he is athletic, he is not as fast as Al Wilson nor is he as intense or physical as Al. Nate Webster is nowhere in the same category as Al Wilson and in my opinion, every great defense needs a great Middle Linebacker as they are the core, heart and soul of a defense.

With that said, if the newly acquired Niko can't outplay the Nate Webster for the starting spot as that was what he was brought in for, then I say he sucks because Nate Webster sucks. In my opinion, both those guys are strictly special teams players in a better defense.

And yes, Nature Boy has super human powers to answer your question.

Nature Boy
08-03-2008, 02:59 AM
Yeah i know a MLB is going number one overall. Lol. Dont tell me about opinions and then go and try to prove your point by posting what some other guy with an opinion thinks.

But it really does not matter your boy wont be a Bronco. Might want to make another wishlist.

Just posting a reference of some guy's opinion. A guy who actually gets paid to analyze football talent for what may be the biggest sports authority in the country, CBS Sports. And surely they carry more clout than you Coach.

Yes, it's unlikely Rey Muauluga will be the #1 overall player drafted but just to get consideration for a sports organization as big as CBSSports says a lot about the guy's talent. But according to you, Rey Muauluga is 3rd best to his teammates Mays and Rolle.

The council chooses to rest your honor.

Jwalk - JayCutty6Goes - CasinoRoyal
08-03-2008, 03:02 AM
You do know the heart and soul of a offense and defense is built in the trenches though right? Mister Super Human.

Oh and trenches mean Offensive and Defensive lines.. A great DL can protect LBs.

LBs cannot protect a trashy DL. The Broncos have draft heavy on the DL lately and have alot of young talent. Broncos should be able to get by another year with out needing to draft a MLB high next year. Like S,OL, then LB in my mind.

Jwalk - JayCutty6Goes - CasinoRoyal
08-03-2008, 03:02 AM
Just posting a reference of some guy's opinion. A guy who actually gets paid to analyze football talent for what may be the biggest sports authority in the country, CBS Sports. And surely they carry more clout than you Coach.

Yes, it's unlikely Rey Muauluga will be the #1 overall player drafted but just to get consideration for a sports organization as big as CBSSports says a lot about the guy's talent. But according to you, Rey Muauluga is 3rd best to his teammates Mays and Rolle.

The council chooses to rest your honor.

Im so much better than CBS4. :eek:

Nature Boy
08-03-2008, 03:11 AM
You do know the heart and soul of a offense and defense is built in the trenches though right? Mister Super Human.

Oh and trenches mean Offensive and Defensive lines.. A great DL can protect LBs.

LBs cannot protect a trashy DL. The Broncos have draft heavy on the DL lately and have alot of young talent. Broncos should be able to get by another year with out needing to draft a MLB high next year. Like S,OL, then LB in my mind.

Quit spinning. and quit repeating online forum cliches. Everyone knew very well that Al Wilson was the heart and sole of the Broncos defense for many years and the 1 yr where he is absent, mixed in with Jim Bates', turned the normally respectable Broncos Defense to powder puff like proportions.

So you were saying Mays and Rolle are better players than Rey Muauluga? CBSSpotsline.com and all other sports outlets say other wise. Did you want me to post more sources that say how much better Rey Muauluga is than his teammates Mays or Rolle?

Jwalk - JayCutty6Goes - CasinoRoyal
08-03-2008, 03:27 AM
Al Wilson was only great in Broncos fans minds. He was good though and a leader. I remember him leading in the Colts playoff game when instead of touching Harrison down he was pointing fingers in other players faces yelling at them. That was sweet huh?

Nature Boy
08-03-2008, 04:02 AM
Al Wilson was only great in Broncos fans minds. He was good though and a leader. I remember him leading in the Colts playoff game when instead of touching Harrison down he was pointing fingers in other players faces yelling at them. That was sweet huh?

Great logic there Einstein. You point to 1 collective bonehead play made by the whole secondary and that is suppose to prove your argument that Al Wilson was not a great Broncos player for many years?

You failed a page ago, now stop spinning.

NameUsedBefore
08-03-2008, 04:04 AM
Al Wilson was only great in Broncos fans minds. He was good though and a leader. I remember him leading in the Colts playoff game when instead of touching Harrison down he was pointing fingers in other players faces yelling at them. That was sweet huh?

And Rod Smith accidentally punched a guy and got ejected.

:coffee:

Nature Boy
08-03-2008, 04:14 AM
And Rod Smith accidentally punched a guy and got ejected.

:coffee:


Good point. And John Elway took a bad snap 1 time and lost the ball.

This is the logic that CasinoRoyal debates with. good greef.

:coffee:

Jwalk - JayCutty6Goes - CasinoRoyal
08-03-2008, 05:54 AM
Its too bad Al Wilson was a veteran when he did that. Just saying dont over rate the guy. He was a good MLB but he was never Ray Lewis.

Nature Boy
08-03-2008, 01:02 PM
Its too bad Al Wilson was a veteran when he did that. Just saying dont over rate the guy. He was a good MLB but he was never Ray Lewis.

Al was great but he was definitely not one of the greatest like Ray Lewis.

Terrel Davis was great but he was no Jim Brown.

See where's the point in that? I guess you're running out of anything sensible to say about this topic here. That was one meaningless response.

Lonestar
08-03-2008, 01:14 PM
OK KNOCK off the personal hits.. now or face the consequences..

Lonestar
08-03-2008, 01:35 PM
OK KNOCK off the personal hits.. now or face the consequences..

I'm in a lousy mood today do not test your luck..

Jwalk - JayCutty6Goes - CasinoRoyal
08-03-2008, 01:38 PM
Why are you quoting yourself?

Lonestar
08-03-2008, 01:41 PM
Why are you quoting yourself?

because it restarts the thread when I do so.. Any problems with that?

Would you rather I QUOTE you the I'm in a foul mood?

Trust me, in the future I can find one of your to use as the model.

Let me know what you think..

Simple Jaded
08-03-2008, 01:44 PM
I find it hard to believe that anybody that's seen the USC LB's play still thinks any safety is a better player.

Rolle or Mays, you'll regret the day you pass on Maualuga for a freakin safety (and some people think Cushing can be even better), I don't care if Webster and Koutouvides are still in Denver.

No thanks, I'll take Maualuga, you can have your overrated safety......

Jwalk - JayCutty6Goes - CasinoRoyal
08-03-2008, 01:47 PM
You wont have mauleaga and i wont have Mays or Rolle. Next topic.

Simple Jaded
08-03-2008, 01:55 PM
You wont have mauleaga and i wont have Mays or Rolle. Next topic.

The next topic should be something you're actually familiar with, and judging from your Mays/Rolle>Maualuga comment, may I suggest something completely unrelated to college players......

Jwalk - JayCutty6Goes - CasinoRoyal
08-03-2008, 01:57 PM
The next topic should be something you're actually familiar with, and judging from your Mays/Rolle>Maualuga comment, may I suggest something completely unrelated to college players......

Yeah crown maulega the king. As if Penn St does not have a MLB coming out. Penn St LBs over a USC one anyday.

Nature Boy
08-03-2008, 09:57 PM
The next topic should be something you're actually familiar with, and judging from your Mays/Rolle>Maualuga comment, may I suggest something completely unrelated to college players......

Totally agree and Hi-5 given. I think Coach CR needs to get some USC game tapes. Rarely is a safety ever taken high in the 1st round of a draft. Rarely.

I thought even Laron Landry of LSU to the Skins was mighty high but the guys turning out to be an excellent safety and even he's not as good as Rey Muauluga will be when he hits the pros.

Lonestar
08-03-2008, 10:09 PM
Totally agree and Hi-5 given. I think Coach CR needs to get some USC game tapes. Rarely is a safety ever taken high in the 1st round of a draft. Rarely.

I thought even Laron Landry of LSU to the Skins was mighty high but the guys turning out to be an excellent safety.


The NFLs average day one pick since 1995 I'm just looking at twos (since there were no #1's taken) was 47.. the highest a Safety was taken at #37..

Yes I'm aware that until this year the number 3 pick was a first day pick but for the sake of the future I used 1s and 2s only..

there have been a total of 7 number two selections taken since 1995.

So your thoughts on this are totally valid..

http://www.nfl.com/draft/history/fulldraft?type=position&position=Safeties

I was surprised to note this I had thought safety was a High priority in the past but NADA..

Simple Jaded
08-03-2008, 10:31 PM
Yeah crown maulega the king. As if Penn St does not have a MLB coming out. Penn St LBs over a USC one anyday.

If you're referring to Sean Lee he injured his knee and is out for the season, he was never in Maualuga's league to begin with......Next topic......

Nature Boy
08-03-2008, 10:54 PM
The NFLs average day one pick since 1995 I'm just looking at twos (since there were no #1's taken) was 47.. the highest a Safety was taken at #37..

Yes I'm aware that until this year the number 3 pick was a first day pick but for the sake of the future I used 1s and 2s only..

there have been a total of 7 number two selections taken since 1995.

So your thoughts on this are totally valid..

http://www.nfl.com/draft/history/fulldraft?type=position&position=Safeties

I was surprised to note this I had thought safety was a High priority in the past but NADA..

There have been a few Safeties drafted in the 1st round in recent years but normally way out of the top 10 except for Laron Landry at #6 overall by the Skins in 2007 and the late Sean Taylor at #5 overall also by the Skins. It appears Joe Gibbs has an affinity with safeties.
Besides those 2, I've never heard of another Safety that was drafted remotely as high.

Yes, Safeties are not a high priority position by any means. An average or below average physical CB can be easily converted to a safety.

Simple Jaded
08-03-2008, 11:01 PM
There have been a few Safeties drafted in the 1st round in recent years but normally way out of the top 10 except for Laron Landry at #6 overall by the Skins in 2007 and the late Sean Taylor at #5 overall also by the Skins. It appears Joe Gibbs has an affinity with safeties.
Besides those 2, I've never heard of another Safety that was drafted remotely as high.

Yes, Safeties are not a high priority position by any means. An average or below average physical CB can be easily converted to a safety.

Kenny Easley was taken 4th, Ronnie Lott was taken 8th, but I get your point and I agree......safeties aren't normally worth picks that high.

To barrow a line from CasinoRoyal, I'll take Landry over Mays and Rolle any day......

Jwalk - JayCutty6Goes - CasinoRoyal
08-03-2008, 11:29 PM
Donte Whitner?

Jwalk - JayCutty6Goes - CasinoRoyal
08-03-2008, 11:30 PM
Kenny Easley was taken 4th, Ronnie Lott was taken 8th, but I get your point and I agree......safeties aren't normally worth picks that high.

To barrow a line from CasinoRoyal, I'll take Landry over Mays and Rolle any day......

Of coure. Hell i would also. Landry is proven and the other two are not.

On that note ill take Patrick Willis over mauglegao.:D

Simple Jaded
08-03-2008, 11:31 PM
Patrick Willis is the Next Gen Super Star at the position, imo......

Lonestar
08-03-2008, 11:32 PM
There have been a few Safeties drafted in the 1st round in recent years but normally way out of the top 10 except for Laron Landry at #6 overall by the Skins in 2007 and the late Sean Taylor at #5 overall also by the Skins. It appears Joe Gibbs has an affinity with safeties.
Besides those 2, I've never heard of another Safety that was drafted remotely as high.

Yes, Safeties are not a high priority position by any means. An average or below average physical CB can be easily converted to a safety.

that is what I had thought was using the NFL site to get my info

here is the list from 1994 to 2008 not a number one on it..

2008 - Safeties
Rd Sel # Player School Team
3 82 DaJuan Morgan North Carolina State Kansas City Chiefs
4 120 Craig Steltz Louisiana State Chicago Bears
7 220 Josh Barrett Arizona State Denver Broncos
2007 - Safeties
Rd Sel # Player School Team
2 37 Eric Weddle Utah San Diego Chargers
2 64 Sabby Piscitelli Oregon State Tampa Bay Buccaneers
3 89 Aaron Rouse Virginia Tech Green Bay Packers
4 114 Marvin White Texas Christian Cincinnati Bengals
4 126 Dashon Goldson Washington San Francisco 49ers
5 150 Josh Gattis Wake Forest Jacksonville Jaguars
5 159 C.J. Gaddis Clemson Philadelphia Eagles
5 167 Kevin Payne Louisiana-Monroe Chicago Bears
7 224 Michael Johnson Arizona New York Giants
2005 - Safeties
Rd Sel # Player School Team
4 133 James Sanders Fresno State New England Patriots
2004 - Safeties
Rd Sel # Player School Team
2 59 Sean Jones Georgia Cleveland Browns
3 67 Stuart Schweigert Purdue Oakland Raiders
3 95 Guss Scott Florida New England Patriots
4 111 Will Allen Ohio State Tampa Bay Buccaneers
4 113 Dexter Reid North Carolina New England Patriots
5 158 Jason Shivers Arizona State St. Louis Rams
2000 - Safeties
Rd Sel # Player School Team
2 43 Rogers Beckett Marshall San Diego Chargers
2 45 Kenoy Kennedy Arkansas Denver Broncos
2 57 Deon Grant Tennessee Carolina Panthers
4 108 John Keith Furman San Francisco 49ers
4 124 Bobby Myers Wisconsin Tennessee Titans
4 126 Gary Berry Ohio State Green Bay Packers
5 135 Aric Morris Michigan State Tennessee Titans
5 152 Arturo Freeman South Carolina Miami Dolphins
6 193 David Gibson USC Tampa Bay Buccaneers
7 236 Erik Olson Colorado State Jacksonville Jaguars
7 254 Michael Green Northwestern State-Louisiana Chicago Bears
1999 - Safeties
Rd Sel # Player School Team
4 114 Brad Ware Auburn Tennessee Titans
1996 - Safeties
Rd Sel # Player School Team
5 143 Rayna Stewart Northern Arizona Houston Oilers
1995 - Safeties
Rd Sel # Player School Team
2 43 Melvin Johnson Kentucky Tampa Bay Buccaneers
3 85 Rodney Young Louisiana State New York Giants
3 92 Charlie Williams Bowling Green State Dallas Cowboys
4 102 Sam Shade Alabama Cincinnati Bengals
7 209 Chad Cota Oregon Carolina Panthers
7 214 Gerald McBurrows Kansas St. Louis Rams
7 242 Travis Davis Notre Dame New Orleans Saints
1994 - Safeties
Rd Sel # Player School Team
2 49 Toby Wright Nebraska Los Angeles Rams
2 59 Jason Sehorn USC New York Giants
3 71 Keith Lyle Virginia Los Angeles Rams
4 127 Bracy Walker North Carolina Kansas City Chiefs
5 140 Myron Bell Michigan State Pittsburgh Steelers
5 145 Rodney Harrison Western Illinois San Diego Chargers

Nature Boy
08-03-2008, 11:34 PM
On that note ill take Patrick Willis over mauglegao.:D


We all would Coach.

I would trade Ryan Clady for Patrick Willis right now, straight up.

I hear that Coach Shanahan had his eye on Patrick Willis in 2007 but the 49ers got to him 1st so we had to settle for skinny Ole Jarvis. I hope Jarvis shows up this year but I highly doubt it. I'm predicting Jarvis to be a Bust.

Jwalk - JayCutty6Goes - CasinoRoyal
08-03-2008, 11:34 PM
Patrick Willis is the Next Gen Super Star at the position, imo......

Now that i can agree with. Dude is cut from a differant cloth.

Jwalk - JayCutty6Goes - CasinoRoyal
08-03-2008, 11:36 PM
We all would Coach. I would trade Ryan Clady for Patrick Willis right now, straight up.

Nahhh cant say i would pull the trigger on that trade. anytime you draft a franchise QB you should make sure you get a franchise tackle to protect his blindside.

QBs are just so much moe comfortable knowing they dont have to worry about getting drilled in the back fumbling consistantly.

If Maulego is the next Patrick Willis then im all in.

Nature Boy
08-03-2008, 11:43 PM
that is what I had thought was using the NFL site to get my info

here is the list from 1994 to 2008 not a number one on it..

2008 - Safeties
Rd Sel # Player School Team
3 82 DaJuan Morgan North Carolina State Kansas City Chiefs
4 120 Craig Steltz Louisiana State Chicago Bears
7 220 Josh Barrett Arizona State Denver Broncos
2007 - Safeties
Rd Sel # Player School Team
2 37 Eric Weddle Utah San Diego Chargers
2 64 Sabby Piscitelli Oregon State Tampa Bay Buccaneers
3 89 Aaron Rouse Virginia Tech Green Bay Packers
4 114 Marvin White Texas Christian Cincinnati Bengals
4 126 Dashon Goldson Washington San Francisco 49ers
5 150 Josh Gattis Wake Forest Jacksonville Jaguars
5 159 C.J. Gaddis Clemson Philadelphia Eagles
5 167 Kevin Payne Louisiana-Monroe Chicago Bears
7 224 Michael Johnson Arizona New York Giants
2005 - Safeties
Rd Sel # Player School Team
4 133 James Sanders Fresno State New England Patriots
2004 - Safeties
Rd Sel # Player School Team
2 59 Sean Jones Georgia Cleveland Browns
3 67 Stuart Schweigert Purdue Oakland Raiders
3 95 Guss Scott Florida New England Patriots
4 111 Will Allen Ohio State Tampa Bay Buccaneers
4 113 Dexter Reid North Carolina New England Patriots
5 158 Jason Shivers Arizona State St. Louis Rams
2000 - Safeties
Rd Sel # Player School Team
2 43 Rogers Beckett Marshall San Diego Chargers
2 45 Kenoy Kennedy Arkansas Denver Broncos
2 57 Deon Grant Tennessee Carolina Panthers
4 108 John Keith Furman San Francisco 49ers
4 124 Bobby Myers Wisconsin Tennessee Titans
4 126 Gary Berry Ohio State Green Bay Packers
5 135 Aric Morris Michigan State Tennessee Titans
5 152 Arturo Freeman South Carolina Miami Dolphins
6 193 David Gibson USC Tampa Bay Buccaneers
7 236 Erik Olson Colorado State Jacksonville Jaguars
7 254 Michael Green Northwestern State-Louisiana Chicago Bears
1999 - Safeties
Rd Sel # Player School Team
4 114 Brad Ware Auburn Tennessee Titans
1996 - Safeties
Rd Sel # Player School Team
5 143 Rayna Stewart Northern Arizona Houston Oilers
1995 - Safeties
Rd Sel # Player School Team
2 43 Melvin Johnson Kentucky Tampa Bay Buccaneers
3 85 Rodney Young Louisiana State New York Giants
3 92 Charlie Williams Bowling Green State Dallas Cowboys
4 102 Sam Shade Alabama Cincinnati Bengals
7 209 Chad Cota Oregon Carolina Panthers
7 214 Gerald McBurrows Kansas St. Louis Rams
7 242 Travis Davis Notre Dame New Orleans Saints
1994 - Safeties
Rd Sel # Player School Team
2 49 Toby Wright Nebraska Los Angeles Rams
2 59 Jason Sehorn USC New York Giants
3 71 Keith Lyle Virginia Los Angeles Rams
4 127 Bracy Walker North Carolina Kansas City Chiefs
5 140 Myron Bell Michigan State Pittsburgh Steelers
5 145 Rodney Harrison Western Illinois San Diego Chargers


That list is definitely flawed if you're saying there was never a Safety drafted in the 1st round from 1994-2008.

I can name a couple off the top of my head right now.

2008 -Kenny Phillips of Miami went to NYG in the 1st round at #31.

2008 -Tyrell Johnson of Arkansas went to Minn in the 2nd round at #43.

2007 -Laron Landry of LSU went to the Skins at #6 overall.(way to high in my opinion for a safety, but he is a good safety)

2007 -Brandon Meriweather of Miami went to the Pats in 1st round at #24.

2004 -Sean Taylor of Miami went to the Skins at #5 overall.

.

Jwalk - JayCutty6Goes - CasinoRoyal
08-03-2008, 11:45 PM
Donte Whitenr, top 10, Ed reed.....Reggie Nelson a year ago in the 1st

Nature Boy
08-03-2008, 11:52 PM
Nahhh cant say i would pull the trigger on that trade. anytime you draft a franchise QB you should make sure you get a franchise tackle to protect his blindside.

QBs are just so much moe comfortable knowing they dont have to worry about getting drilled in the back fumbling consistantly.

If Maulego is the next Patrick Willis then im all in.


I'll trade Ryan Clady for Patrick Willis if possible. We'll just have to put Kuper at LT and Pears at RT and bring in a veteran from somewhere for depth.

It would be a bold and premature statement for me to say Rey Muauluga will be the next Patrick Willis but I will say that Rey Muauluga is in the same mold and caliber as Lofa Tatupu.

Rey Mualuga is head and shoulders better than Taylors Mays and/or Myron Rolle.

.

Lonestar
08-03-2008, 11:53 PM
That list is definitely flawed if you're saying there was never a Safety drafted in the 1st round from 1994-2008.

I can name a couple off the top of my head right now.

2008 -Kenny Phillips of Miami went to NYG in the 1st round at #31.

2008 -Tyrell Johnson of Arkansas went to Minn in the 2nd round at #43.

2007 -Laron Landry of LSU went to the Skins at #6 overall.(way to high in my opinion for a safety, but he is a good safety)

2007 -Brandon Meriweather of Miami went to the Pats in 1st round at #24.

2004 -Sean Taylor of Miami went to the Skins at #5 overall.

.


must not have been listed at Safety at the time in the NFL database.. because WYSIWYG.
a pure cut and paste from their web site..

As I said before they are few and far between taken on day one..

Jwalk - JayCutty6Goes - CasinoRoyal
08-03-2008, 11:56 PM
must not have been listed at Safety at the time in the NFL database.. because WYSIWYG.
a pure cut and paste from their web site..

As I said before they are few and far between taken on day one..

There website is just wrong. All of those guys he listed were clear cut safeties in college and safeties at the combine and drafted as safeties.

Merriweather is the only who who was "conisidered" to be a CB because of his size.

Nature Boy
08-03-2008, 11:58 PM
must not have been listed at Safety at the time in the NFL database.. because WYSIWYG.
a pure cut and paste from their web site..

As I said before they are few and far between taken on day one..


No, all those guys were clear safeties in College and drafted to be Safeties in the pros. Except Meriweather as pointed out by CR who played both CB and S at Miami but he was definitely drafted the NE to play Safety.


Agreed. Safeties are not a top priority on NFL teams unless you are Joe Gibbs. Laron Landry at #6 in 2007 overall and Sean Taylor at #5 overall in 2004.

.

Lonestar
08-04-2008, 12:27 AM
No, all those guys were clear safeties in College and drafted to be Safeties in the pros. Except Meriweather as pointed out by CR who played both CB and S at Miami but he was definitely drafted the NE to play Safety.


Agreed. Safeties are not a top priority on NFL teams unless you are Joe Gibbs. Laron Landry at #6 in 2007 overall and Sean Taylor at #5 overall in 2004.

.

I had thought that Atwater and the ass clown they dafted afterwards from ARK was a number two also..

Like I said I was using what I consider the source on the draft.. to tired to look the teams up individually..

Jwalk - JayCutty6Goes - CasinoRoyal
08-04-2008, 12:39 AM
I'll trade Ryan Clady for Patrick Willis if possible. We'll just have to put Kuper at LT and Pears at RT and bring in a veteran from somewhere for depth.

It would be a bold and premature statement for me to say Rey Muauluga will be the next Patrick Willis but I will say that Rey Muauluga is in the same mold and caliber as Lofa Tatupu.

Rey Mualuga is head and shoulders better than Taylors Mays and/or Myron Rolle.

.

Kuper is by no means a franchise LT though. Pretty much proved that last year. I still could not make that trade its way harder to find franchise tackles. PLus you can put a sheild in front of LBs to make average ones look great. That sheild is a great DL. OLinement can only be protected by scheme and not even that works in most cases.

Nature Boy
08-04-2008, 09:07 AM
Kuper is by no means a franchise LT though. Pretty much proved that last year. I still could not make that trade its way harder to find franchise tackles. PLus you can put a sheild in front of LBs to make average ones look great. That sheild is a great DL. OLinement can only be protected by scheme and not even that works in most cases.


Here's where the point is easily made. Patrick Willis has already proven that he's one of the best middle linebackers in the league if not the best and he's only going on his 2nd year. It's scary to think but the kid will only get better and better. With his speed plus good size, he is the ideal middle linebacker for a Broncos team. Now with Clady, he hasn't played an NFL down yet so we really don't know if he'll be great, average or if he'll stink it up to be honest.

I'll trade Clady for Patrick Willis for Ryan Clady in a heart beat right now, it's just that the 49ers are not that dumb.

You said Kuper is by no means a franchise LT but the way it's looking, he'll be our franchise RT.

I guess this is where a great GM makes his money. To be able to make the right personnel decisions with the limits in front of him. I'm not a paid member of any NFL staff or do I watch game tapes all day but I'll go ahead and say and most would agree with me that if given the opportunity, most would trade a proven stud MLB for an unproven rookie LT.

MOtorboat
08-04-2008, 09:10 AM
I must have missed something.

Did we have a chance to draft Willis?

Nature Boy
08-04-2008, 09:21 AM
I must have missed something.

Did we have a chance to draft Willis?


No we didn't. I was just wishing and hypothetically speaking. However, in the 2007, Mike Shanahan said that Patrick Willis was his guy had Willis slid down to #17. He never got past #11.

Because we were talking about Rey Muauluga and how badly we need a great MLB to replace Al Wilson, I brought up Patrick Willis and how I would trade Clady for him if given the chance. But Coach CR thinks otherwise even if only in fantasy General Managing. Coach CR thinks he knows it all; I thought I knew it all but apparently Coach has better skills than my Super Human abilities.

MOtorboat
08-04-2008, 09:28 AM
No we didn't. I was just wishing and hypothetically speaking. However, in the 2007, Mike Shanahan said that Patrick Willis was his guy had Willis slid down to #17. He never got past #11.

Because we were talking about Rey Muauluga and how badly we need a great MLB to replace Al Wilson, I brought up Patrick Willis and how I would trade Clady for him if given the chance. But Coach CR thinks otherwise even if only in fantasy General Managing. Coach CR thinks he knows it all; I thought I knew it all but apparently Coach has better skills than my Super Human abilities.

Hindsight...he should have gone higher than that...

Past Muauluga and Laurinitis, is there a MLB that can fix our problems next year? And both should be Top 10 picks barring a bad injury.

Nature Boy
08-04-2008, 09:28 AM
No we didn't. I was just wishing and hypothetically speaking. However, in the 2007, Mike Shanahan said that Patrick Willis was his guy had Willis slid down to #17. He never got past #11.

Because we were talking about Rey Muauluga and how badly we need a great MLB to replace Al Wilson, I brought up Patrick Willis and how I would trade Clady for him if given the chance. But Coach CR thinks otherwise even if only in fantasy General Managing. Coach CR thinks he knows it all; I thought I knew it all but apparently Coach has better skills than my Super Human abilities.



On that note. Coach CR also thinks USC safety Taylor Mays and Fl. St. safety Myron Rolle is a better draft prospect than USC MLB Rey Muauluga. Apparently Coach CR doesn't know that MLBs take a top priority on a defense over a safety.

As it looks now, Rey Muauluga is a top 5 draft pick, one major sports site and writer even has Rey Muauluga penciled in at #1 overall but Coach CR thinks the Linebacker from Penn St. is better than Rey Muauluga.

Goes to show how much Coach CR really knows despite all the game tapes and time he spends studying the game.

:rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes:

:coffee:

.

Nature Boy
08-04-2008, 09:43 AM
Hindsight...he should have gone higher than that...

Past Muauluga and Laurinitis, is there a MLB that can fix our problems next year? And both should be Top 10 picks barring a bad injury.

As it looks now, no, but it's way too early to really speculate in depth about the 2009 draft class other than the obvious.

BTW: Rey Muauluga > James Laurinaitis > LB Sean Lee (Lee of Penn St. who is an OLB btw who is Coach CR's opinion to be better than Rey Muauluga :rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes:)

MOtorboat
08-04-2008, 09:56 AM
With all of that said, here's the list of impact defensive players out of USC the last five years:

Jwalk - JayCutty6Goes - CasinoRoyal
08-04-2008, 10:01 AM
I doubt anybody in there right mind would trade a franchise LT for a MLB. I have already explained why..

You can put a sheild in front of an average LB core called a Defensive Line.

You cannot sheild a LT...Hes on an island on his own...He helps you block 3 guys with 4 Linemen...

But unfortunately i can no longer respond after this message because it will look like were arguing personally. So you can have this debate.

omac
08-04-2008, 10:04 AM
I wouldn't trade Clady for Willis, even though Clady is unproven and Willis is one of the best. I'd need to see how he turns out first. If he ends up being a Joe Thomas, no way would I trade him for Willis.

The point being the Broncos have always had their identity on offense, since their head coach is an offensive mind. The 49ers, in contrast, has their identity on defense, because Nolan has always been a defensive mind. It could be part of the reason why offensive head coaches know how to find offensive talent, while defensive coaches know how to find defensive talent.

The biggest investment the Broncos have made, draft-wise, is on Jay Cutler, and it is of the greatest importance to protect his backside in order for him to realize his full potential and bring the offense with him. Trading Clady for Willis would continue to leave a hole in the Broncos OL that could significantly shorten Cutler's career.

For the Broncos defense, a solid mike will do; anything better than that is gravy.

Jwalk - JayCutty6Goes - CasinoRoyal
08-04-2008, 10:08 AM
I wouldn't trade Clady for Willis, even though Clady is unproven and Willis is one of the best. I'd need to see how he turns out first. If he ends up being a Joe Thomas, no way would I trade him for Willis.

The point being the Broncos have always had their identity on offense, since their head coach is an offensive mind. The 49ers, in contrast, has their identity on defense, because Nolan has always been a defensive mind. It could be part of the reason why offensive head coaches know how to find offensive talent, while defensive coaches know how to find defensive talent.

The biggest investment the Broncos have made, draft-wise, is on Jay Cutler, and it is of the greatest importance to protect his backside in order for him to realize his full potential and bring the offense with him. Trading Clady for Willis would continue to leave a hole in the Broncos OL that could significantly shorten Cutler's career.

For the Broncos defense, a solid mike will do; anything better than that is gravy.


Exactly. You cannot draft a franchise QB and put a make shift OL around him and expect him to succeed. When a QB knows his blind side is protected he will play way better instead of thinking about gettin sacked from behind and fumbling. Which we saw a little too much last year.

Nature Boy
08-04-2008, 03:54 PM
I wouldn't trade Clady for Willis, even though Clady is unproven and Willis is one of the best. I'd need to see how he turns out first. If he ends up being a Joe Thomas, no way would I trade him for Willis.

The point being the Broncos have always had their identity on offense, since their head coach is an offensive mind. The 49ers, in contrast, has their identity on defense, because Nolan has always been a defensive mind. It could be part of the reason why offensive head coaches know how to find offensive talent, while defensive coaches know how to find defensive talent.

The biggest investment the Broncos have made, draft-wise, is on Jay Cutler, and it is of the greatest importance to protect his backside in order for him to realize his full potential and bring the offense with him. Trading Clady for Willis would continue to leave a hole in the Broncos OL that could significantly shorten Cutler's career.

For the Broncos defense, a solid mike will do; anything better than that is gravy.


Right there in the highlight is the problem. The Broncos don't have a solid MLB. Nate Webster is old, not that fast, too small and always whiffs on tackles; not what you want to anchor your defense. Niko? well, he just sucks as he was brought in to start at MLB but he can't even beat out Nate who sucks.

Homerism aside, a proven top 3 if not #1 ranked middle linebacker on only his 2nd year for a rookie LT? What idiot wouldn't make that trade if given the chance? Easy choice there, too bad it's only fantasy GMing here and not a real scenario.

Do you guys remember the last 1st round OT we drafted? What's his name, G. Foster or something like that? End of discussion.

.

omac
08-04-2008, 08:59 PM
Right there in the highlight is the problem. The Broncos don't have a solid MLB. Nate Webster is old, not that fast, too small and always whiffs on tackles; not what you want to anchor your defense. Niko? well, he just sucks as he was brought in to start at MLB but he can't even beat out Nate who sucks.

Homerism aside, a proven top 3 if not #1 ranked middle linebacker on only his 2nd year for a rookie LT? What idiot wouldn't make that trade if given the chance? Easy choice there, too bad it's only fantasy GMing here and not a real scenario.

Do you guys remember the last 1st round OT we drafted? What's his name, G. Foster or something like that? End of discussion.

.

Man, you missed the whole point of my post.

The Broncos don't need an elite mike; a solid one will do. What they do need is a top LT to protect the franchise QB of an offensive team. Getting Willis won't protect Cutler's backside. If our current mikes are sub-par, the team will suffer, but if Cutler goes down, it's game over. And if Clady turns out to be the LT the Broncos are hoping he is, then he's a great investment that shouldn't go anywhere.

You're already assuming Niko and Webster are going to suck, without seeing them play a regular season game at mike. I'll give them a chance to prove themselves, just like I was willing to give Travis Henry a chance to prove himself this season, despite his problems last season, before he was released by the team.

Dean
08-04-2008, 09:25 PM
You cannot sheild a LT...Hes on an island on his own...He helps you block 3 guys with 4 Linemen...

Sure, a left tackle can be shielded. All you have to do is put the tight end on his side in max protection. You can use a back to chip block for the tackle or if he is extremely weak you can do both. As a prime example, watch what the Broncos did with our tight end.

If all that doesn't work roll the pocket to the offense's right to give the QB time.

MOtorboat
08-04-2008, 10:08 PM
Sure, a left tackle can be shielded. All you have to do is put the tight end on his side in max protection. You can use a back to chip block for the tackle or if he is extremely weak you can do both. As a prime example, watch what the Broncos did with our tight end.

If all that doesn't work roll the pocket to the offense's right to give the QB time.

Or you could just get a good left tackle and not handcuff your tight end.

G_Money
08-04-2008, 10:12 PM
Right there in the highlight is the problem. The Broncos don't have a solid MLB. Nate Webster is old, not that fast, too small and always whiffs on tackles; not what you want to anchor your defense. Niko? well, he just sucks as he was brought in to start at MLB but he can't even beat out Nate who sucks.

Homerism aside, a proven top 3 if not #1 ranked middle linebacker on only his 2nd year for a rookie LT? What idiot wouldn't make that trade if given the chance? Easy choice there, too bad it's only fantasy GMing here and not a real scenario.

Do you guys remember the last 1st round OT we drafted? What's his name, G. Foster or something like that? End of discussion.

.

If Clady becomes Orlando Pace, then I'd take him over Willis. If he becomes George Foster, then obviously I want Willis.

I agree with omac - if we don't have Cutler alive and standing, then no amount of defense is gonna help us. We aren't the Ravens - we can't win a championship with defense. We don't have the coordinator for it, nor the personnel - with or without Willis.

Whether Clady is the guy to protect Jay and allow our offense to take us to a title is certainly up for debate. For us to do anything significant in the next few years he HAS to be.

But IF he's the Real Deal, then even as much as I have loved Willis and would have died to bring him here... We need the Jay Cutler Life Insurance Policy more.

It's more exciting to get the guy who makes the plays instead of the guy who takes them away, but Clady at his full potential makes all of our offensive weapons more deadly. He'll put the juice in our attack.

If right now we could trade Clady for Willis without knowing if Clady will reach his potential, I too would take Willis since he's a Known Quantity and should be a perennial Pro Bowler at his position.

But we're not doing anything without that LT position working out. Ask the 49ers how it feels to be in the bottom of the league at scoring and takeaways differential thanks to a porous OL that can't keep the QB on his feet.

I comped Willis to Hardy Nickerson before he was drafted - I'm in love with the kid. But our team is only gonna go as far as Cutler and the offense can take it, and that isn't very far from his back.

Willis vs Clady, right at this moment? Sure 100% stud at MLB vs. unproven rook LT? Yeah, I'll take Willis.

Pro Bowl LT vs Pro Bowl MLB in theory, for this team? LT, no contest.

~G

omac
08-04-2008, 11:14 PM
If Clady becomes Orlando Pace, then I'd take him over Willis. If he becomes George Foster, then obviously I want Willis.

I agree with omac - if we don't have Cutler alive and standing, then no amount of defense is gonna help us. We aren't the Ravens - we can't win a championship with defense. We don't have the coordinator for it, nor the personnel - with or without Willis.

Whether Clady is the guy to protect Jay and allow our offense to take us to a title is certainly up for debate. For us to do anything significant in the next few years he HAS to be.

But IF he's the Real Deal, then even as much as I have loved Willis and would have died to bring him here... We need the Jay Cutler Life Insurance Policy more.

It's more exciting to get the guy who makes the plays instead of the guy who takes them away, but Clady at his full potential makes all of our offensive weapons more deadly. He'll put the juice in our attack.

If right now we could trade Clady for Willis without knowing if Clady will reach his potential, I too would take Willis since he's a Known Quantity and should be a perennial Pro Bowler at his position.

But we're not doing anything without that LT position working out. Ask the 49ers how it feels to be in the bottom of the league at scoring and takeaways differential thanks to a porous OL that can't keep the QB on his feet.

I comped Willis to Hardy Nickerson before he was drafted - I'm in love with the kid. But our team is only gonna go as far as Cutler and the offense can take it, and that isn't very far from his back.

Willis vs Clady, right at this moment? Sure 100% stud at MLB vs. unproven rook LT? Yeah, I'll take Willis.

Pro Bowl LT vs Pro Bowl MLB in theory, for this team? LT, no contest.

~G

Great post! :salute:

I especially like the Jay Cutler Life Insurance Policy, hehehe. :D

Nature Boy
08-05-2008, 04:54 AM
Man, you missed the whole point of my post.

The Broncos don't need an elite mike; a solid one will do. What they do need is a top LT to protect the franchise QB of an offensive team. Getting Willis won't protect Cutler's backside. If our current mikes are sub-par, the team will suffer, but if Cutler goes down, it's game over. And if Clady turns out to be the LT the Broncos are hoping he is, then he's a great investment that shouldn't go anywhere.

You're already assuming Niko and Webster are going to suck, without seeing them play a regular season game at mike. I'll give them a chance to prove themselves, just like I was willing to give Travis Henry a chance to prove himself this season, despite his problems last season, before he was released by the team.


Here is where your idea is flawed. You're assuming that Nate or Niko is solid and we all know that they are not. You don't have to take my word for it, just ask anyone. They'll tell you Nate sucks and if Niko can't beat him, what does that tell you? and don't tell me that we haven't seen Nate in the middle yet. He's old and if he hasn't made his rep known yet in his veteran career, there is a reason why, Nate sucks.

Here is the other flaw in your thought. You're assuming that Clady will be the LT of our dreams. Do you remember when we drafted George Foster? Yep, he turned out to be great right? He shared the same hype that Clady is getting right now.

So do you see what I'm getting at? I'll trade a fire next generation Super Middle LineBacker Patrick Willis for a maybe with great potential LT Ryan Clady in a heart beat. The problem here is, the 49ers are not dumb enough to agree to such a trade in real life.

Now about Travis Henry, He is twice the RB the Broncos have currently in their stable. His problem was not his football abilities but himself as a person. You would think that with what the Broncos paid him and what Mike Shanahan did for him last season and what he said in public about making it up for the organization, he would lay off the WEED! But at the same time in his defense, It's only freaking WEED! Weed is the greatest muscle relaxant and pain suppressor with the least negative effect on a body for anyone that needs it. Especially professional athletes such as football players.

The Governor of the greatest state in the Union, Arnold Schwarzenegger, a former multiple winner of the Mr. Olympia trophy used to smoke weed for the obvious physical reasons. I'm not saying at all it was OK for Travis Henry to smoke pot but all I'm saying it, It's only WEED!

Let's get down on Travis Henry for not obliging on the rules set for him but let's not confuse that with his football playing abilities. He is the best RB the Broncos have seen since Clinton Portis. Anyone that thinks otherwise is a freaking idiot who's judging him off the field and not on.

.

Nature Boy
08-05-2008, 05:09 AM
If Clady becomes Orlando Pace, then I'd take him over Willis. If he becomes George Foster, then obviously I want Willis.

I agree with omac - if we don't have Cutler alive and standing, then no amount of defense is gonna help us. We aren't the Ravens - we can't win a championship with defense. We don't have the coordinator for it, nor the personnel - with or without Willis.

Whether Clady is the guy to protect Jay and allow our offense to take us to a title is certainly up for debate. For us to do anything significant in the next few years he HAS to be.

But IF he's the Real Deal, then even as much as I have loved Willis and would have died to bring him here... We need the Jay Cutler Life Insurance Policy more.

It's more exciting to get the guy who makes the plays instead of the guy who takes them away, but Clady at his full potential makes all of our offensive weapons more deadly. He'll put the juice in our attack.

If right now we could trade Clady for Willis without knowing if Clady will reach his potential, I too would take Willis since he's a Known Quantity and should be a perennial Pro Bowler at his position.

But we're not doing anything without that LT position working out. Ask the 49ers how it feels to be in the bottom of the league at scoring and takeaways differential thanks to a porous OL that can't keep the QB on his feet.

I comped Willis to Hardy Nickerson before he was drafted - I'm in love with the kid. But our team is only gonna go as far as Cutler and the offense can take it, and that isn't very far from his back.

Willis vs Clady, right at this moment? Sure 100% stud at MLB vs. unproven rook LT? Yeah, I'll take Willis.

Pro Bowl LT vs Pro Bowl MLB in theory, for this team? LT, no contest.

~G


Thanks for agreeing with me. A sure fire star player in Patrick Willis for a maybe with great potential in Clady? I'll take the guaranteed paid.

It's like playing Black Jack if any of you have played. When you hit 21 but the the dealer is showing an ace on the draw. What do you do? Even money or gamble and get 1.5 on your money? The smart money is to get guaranteed paid.

Well in our hypothetical scenario, the smart money is to take the guaranteed money(Willis) and run. End of discussion.

. :salute: :salute: :salute: :salute:


:coffee:

rcsodak
08-05-2008, 11:18 PM
Dam the off season sucks. We are resorting to what our 2nd string MLB thinks about our main rival's shiny new over paid rookie RB.

I will reserve my right to say that Niko Kooties sucks until he proves that he is better than Al Wilson.

I'm game.

I'll bet you you're ability to sign on to this board, that Niko is better than Al Wilson is.

Game? :coffee:

rcsodak
08-05-2008, 11:26 PM
Thanks for agreeing with me. A sure fire star player in Patrick Willis for a maybe with great potential in Clady? I'll take the guaranteed paid.

It's like playing Black Jack if any of you have played. When you hit 21 but the the dealer is showing an ace on the draw. What do you do? Even money or gamble and get 1.5 on your money? The smart money is to get guaranteed paid.

Well in our hypothetical scenario, the smart money is to take the guaranteed money(Willis) and run. End of discussion.



:coffee:

If you're going to use an analogy to make a point, at least use one that's factual. :rolleyes:

You evidently know nothing about BlackJack. Unless you gamble just to break even...then, it's not even called gambling.

Insurance is called a SUCKER BET!

I dealt it in a casino. And I dealt Hold 'Em before anybody knew what the hell it was.

Maybe you should stick to Go Fish??? Kings Corner??? War??? :elefant:



ps. End of discussion.

rcsodak
08-05-2008, 11:37 PM
The Governor of the greatest state in the Union, Arnold Schwarzenegger, a former multiple winner of the Mr. Olympia trophy used to smoke weed for the obvious physical reasons. I'm not saying at all it was OK for Travis Henry to smoke pot but all I'm saying it, It's only WEED!

Let's get down on Travis Henry for not obliging on the rules set for him but let's not confuse that with his football playing abilities. He is the best RB the Broncos have seen since Clinton Portis. Anyone that thinks otherwise is a freaking idiot who's judging him off the field and not on.

.
Shanny thinks Clady could be a PBowler, but doesn't want to 'jinx' him.
Everybody interviewed today says Webster is tearing it up at camp.
Niko will help against the run, as they'll both see time on the field.
Shanny says this is the Best/deepest the rb's have been, since he's been in Denver.
Ahhnold is gay.
THenry (Baby'sssssssss daddy) is SO good, that no other team will pick him up, because they're afraid he'll run for too many yards/td's.
Clinton Poooortis is SO good he's been in the Pro Bowl every year he's been in the league.



Keep smoking that weed.....


....delusional schizzophrenia just.....happens.


:elefant:

Nature Boy
08-06-2008, 12:08 AM
I'm game.

I'll bet you you're ability to sign on to this board, that Niko is better than Al Wilson is.

Game? :coffee:

I'm all game. I'll bet that Niko will never be as good as Al Wilson was when Al played here in Denver from 1999-2006.

Al Wilson's Career highlights and awards:

* 5x Pro Bowl selection (2001, 2002, 2003, 2005, 2006)
* 2x All-Pro selection (2005, 2006)

So if Niko doesn't make the pro-bowl this year than you lose.

*note: the bet is whether Niko will be as good Al Wilson was when Al played, not how good Al Wilson is right now as Al Wilson likely wont play another down.

Nature Boy
08-06-2008, 12:14 AM
If you're going to use an analogy to make a point, at least use one that's factual. :rolleyes:

You evidently know nothing about BlackJack. Unless you gamble just to break even...then, it's not even called gambling.

Insurance is called a SUCKER BET!

I dealt it in a casino. And I dealt Hold 'Em before anybody knew what the hell it was.

Maybe you should stick to Go Fish??? Kings Corner??? War??? :elefant:



ps. End of discussion.


What have you been smoking? The bad seedy brown grass... ? Who said anything about insurance? While you were at your card dealer school/training, you also should have been taken some English courses to sharpen up your reading comprehension skills.

I said the smart money is to take the guaranteed money or in this case even money when you hit black jack(A-10, A-J, A-Q, or A-K) when the dealing is showing an A-?.



.

omac
08-06-2008, 12:18 AM
Here is where your idea is flawed. You're assuming that Nate or Niko is solid and we all know that they are not. You don't have to take my word for it, just ask anyone. They'll tell you Nate sucks and if Niko can't beat him, what does that tell you? and don't tell me that we haven't seen Nate in the middle yet. He's old and if he hasn't made his rep known yet in his veteran career, there is a reason why, Nate sucks.

Here is the other flaw in your thought. You're assuming that Clady will be the LT of our dreams. Do you remember when we drafted George Foster? Yep, he turned out to be great right? He shared the same hype that Clady is getting right now.

So do you see what I'm getting at? I'll trade a fire next generation Super Middle LineBacker Patrick Willis for a maybe with great potential LT Ryan Clady in a heart beat. The problem here is, the 49ers are not dumb enough to agree to such a trade in real life.

Now about Travis Henry, He is twice the RB the Broncos have currently in their stable. His problem was not his football abilities but himself as a person. You would think that with what the Broncos paid him and what Mike Shanahan did for him last season and what he said in public about making it up for the organization, he would lay off the WEED! But at the same time in his defense, It's only freaking WEED! Weed is the greatest muscle relaxant and pain suppressor with the least negative effect on a body for anyone that needs it. Especially professional athletes such as football players.

The Governor of the greatest state in the Union, Arnold Schwarzenegger, a former multiple winner of the Mr. Olympia trophy used to smoke weed for the obvious physical reasons. I'm not saying at all it was OK for Travis Henry to smoke pot but all I'm saying it, It's only WEED!

Let's get down on Travis Henry for not obliging on the rules set for him but let's not confuse that with his football playing abilities. He is the best RB the Broncos have seen since Clinton Portis. Anyone that thinks otherwise is a freaking idiot who's judging him off the field and not on.

.

The problem with your arguments is that you make too many assumptions. You assume that Nate and Niko will suck, and your argument to substantiate your point is to "ask anyone". I never said Nate or Niko would be solid; I said Denver only needed a solid Mike. I have yet to see whether either or both turn out okay or not.

On Clady, again you're assuming that I believe Clady will the the LT of our dreams; I said no such thing. What I did say was that if Clady turns out to be a Joe Thomas, then no way would I trade him for Willis. I also said it is of the greatest importance that the Broncos need a premiere LT to cover Cutler's backside and that's the reason they drafted Clady; they need to find out if he is that guy. Getting Willis will not plug the hole at LT.

On Travis Henry, you're obviously not even objective. I also think he has great talent, but that was never his problem. He's been often injured, has huge social distractions with all his kids from different moms that he didn't support, he has legal and league problems with his weed smoking, and he also has poor work ethic. It is not surprising that he's been inconsistent throughout his career, despite his talent. Despite all his talent, because of his injuries and legal problems, he was out-produced by an unheralded rookie.

Yet you we're pushing it in everyone's faces how Travis Henry will have a breakout year and prove you right and everyone wrong, even with all the baggage he carries around. What is that, blind faith? He just will?

I wasn't going to predict Henry having an awesome season after all he's put the Broncos through, but I was willing to give him a chance to prove himself. That's the difference in our posts.

You assume Niko and Webster will suck; you also assumed Travis Henry would be great, despite his problems with injuries, legal matters, and work ethic. Now we all know that despite your very, very, very strong convictions about Travis Henry, you were wrong. He has the talent, but he continually puts himself in a situation to fail.

I don't know if Niko or Nate will be good, and I didn't know if Travis Henry would turn it around or not. I am willing to give them a chance to prove themselves before making any snap judgements.

Also, you love implying that anyone who has a view contrary to yours on a subject matter that you feel strongly about is an idiot. You really should lay off of that.

Nature Boy
08-06-2008, 12:45 AM
Shanny thinks Clady could be a PBowler, but doesn't want to 'jinx' him.
Everybody interviewed today says Webster is tearing it up at camp.
Niko will help against the run, as they'll both see time on the field.
Shanny says this is the Best/deepest the rb's have been, since he's been in Denver.
Ahhnold is gay.
THenry (Baby'sssssssss daddy) is SO good, that no other team will pick him up, because they're afraid he'll run for too many yards/td's.
Clinton Poooortis is SO good he's been in the Pro Bowl every year he's been in the league.



Keep smoking that weed.....


....delusional schizzophrenia just.....happens.





Shanny and many others said the same thing about George Foster when Foster was drafted. Who in their right mind wouldn't trade Ryan Clady for Patrick Willis if given the opportunity?

A lot of people look great in camp. I've also seen enough of Nate Webster the last 2 yrs to know that the guy absolutely sucks. He is definitely not even close to Al Wilson's caliber.

Mike Shanahan praises all his RBs every single year no matter who they are. What do you expect him to say? Our best hope for a dominating run game just left the door when Travis Henry couldn't stay away from the bong? The duo of Selvin Young and Andre Hall aren't exactly Clinton Portis and Mike Anderson of a few years ago.

Travis Henry hasn't been signed yet because he carries too much baggage. He'll likely get suspended for a year then he'll be a great cheap addition to any team that is willing to bring him on.

Clinton Portis is a force in Washington and one of the best backs in the league when healthy. He's been banged up but in 2006, he broke the Redskins' franchise record for the most rushing yards in a season with 1,516 yards and tied the most 100+ yard games in a season (5). By rushing for 1,516 yards, he became only the third runner in league history to reach 1,500 yards in three of his first four seasons.

With Joe Gibbs gone, Portis may have a chance to stay healthy by carrying the ball less per game and not used like a battering ram ala John Roggins.

It seems to me that you're just trying to diminish my comments as your posts are childlike, they carries zero merit with zero substance and completely wrong. But Jwiz Hi-Fives you? Let me guess why.

With that said, I'll resort to your childlike post with one of my own.

I bet you my Governor can beat up your Governor. :elefant: :elefant:

http://www.spiralpocus.com/wp-content/uploads/2008/05/the-terminator.jpg

:coffee:

:lol:

.

Nature Boy
08-06-2008, 12:57 AM
The problem with your arguments is that you make too many assumptions. You assume that Nate and Niko will suck, and your argument to substantiate your point is to "ask anyone". I never said Nate or Niko would be solid; I said Denver only needed a solid Mike. I have yet to see whether either or both turn out okay or not.

On Clady, again you're assuming that I believe Clady will the the LT of our dreams; I said no such thing. What I did say was that if Clady turns out to be a Joe Thomas, then no way would I trade him for Willis. I also said it is of the greatest importance that the Broncos need a premiere LT to cover Cutler's backside and that's the reason they drafted Clady; they need to find out if he is that guy. Getting Willis will not plug the hole at LT.

On Travis Henry, you're obviously not even objective. I also think he has great talent, but that was never his problem. He's been often injured, has huge social distractions with all his kids from different moms that he didn't support, he has legal and league problems with his weed smoking, and he also has poor work ethic. It is not surprising that he's been inconsistent throughout his career, despite his talent. Despite all his talent, because of his injuries and legal problems, he was out-produced by an unheralded rookie.

Yet you we're pushing it in everyone's faces how Travis Henry will have a breakout year and prove you right and everyone wrong, even with all the baggage he carries around. What is that, blind faith? He just will?

I wasn't going to predict Henry having an awesome season after all he's put the Broncos through, but I was willing to give him a chance to prove himself. That's the difference in our posts.

You assume Niko and Webster will suck; you also assumed Travis Henry would be great, despite his problems with injuries, legal matters, and work ethic. Now we all know that despite your very, very, very strong convictions about Travis Henry, you were wrong. He has the talent, but he continually puts himself in a situation to fail.

I don't know if Niko or Nate will be good, and I didn't know if Travis Henry would turn it around or not. I am willing to give them a chance to prove themselves before making any snap judgements.

Also, you love implying that anyone who has a view contrary to yours on a subject matter that you feel strongly about is an idiot. You really should lay off of that.

Apparently you haven't watched Nate play the last 2 years here in Denver. Nate missed a key tackle on a dump pass to the left flat against the 49ers that invigorated them to come back and beat us, knocking us out the playoffs in 2006. That was just an example of Nate's play that stands out most to me. Nate's 2 years here in Denver can only be described as lousy. How anyone can think it'll be different this coming yr playing in the middle is beyond me. And if Niko can't outplay Nate, then Niko sucks even worst.

I agree that we need a great LT just as we need a great RT, C, G, MLB, OLB, S etc etc. What I'm saying is hypothetically speaking, if given the chance to trade a sure fire star MLB for an unproven Rookie LT, who in their right mind wouldn't? Anyone that doesn't think that is a great trade is an idiot.

.

omac
08-06-2008, 01:38 AM
Apparently you haven't watched Nate play the last 2 years here in Denver. Nate missed a key tackle on a dump pass to the left flat against the 49ers that invigorated them to come back and beat us, knocking us out the playoffs in 2006. That was just an example of Nate's play that stands out most to me. Nate's 2 years here in Denver can only be described as lousy. How anyone can think it'll be different this coming yr playing in the middle is beyond me. And if Niko can't outplay Nate, then Niko sucks even worst.

I agree that we need a great LT just as we need a great RT, C, G, MLB, OLB, S etc etc. What I'm saying is hypothetically speaking, if given the chance to trade a sure fire star MLB for an unproven Rookie LT, who in their right mind wouldn't? Anyone that doesn't think that is a great trade is an idiot.

.

Nate's only played sparingly in 2006, and it last season, he played for a defense that was experimenting on a different scheme. He also played outside LB, not mike. DJ hasn't looked very good at sam, he's looked great at wil, and though he had a lot of tackles, he wasn't as effective at mike. A new article says part of it was the scheme, since it left the center unblocked to block him.

I'd like to see how Webster and Niko do in games with their new roles in this current defense, before I make any assumptions.

On the Willis-Clady thing, you would rather have a proven star at a position that isn't that great of a need to the Broncos, than a potential star in a position that is one of the greatest needs of the Broncos, with them being an offensive team.

Let's say we know Jake was not that interested in football any longer, and Shanny drafted Cutler with the 11th pick, because he believed he was the QB the Broncos would need to get to a SB. Then let's say Willis already the player he is today and a trade could be made for him and the inexperienced Cutler.

You'd still probably choose Willis. I'd stick with Cutler, because this offensive team is looking for a potentially great QB.

If you were Chicago, would you trade an unproven rookie Michael Jordan for a proven star like Kevin McHale?

The Chiefs have traded one of the best DEs in the league for unproven draft picks. And it's not like Allen does not fit their youth movement; he's still pretty young and at the prime of his career. Yet they've traded a very known factor, for pure potential.

Not everything is as simple a decision as it seems. If we traded Clady for Willis, then Clady turns out to be one of the best LTs in the game, and Cutler gets seriously injured because of a lack of protection, the decision would, in hindsight, be the wrong one.

That's why GMs have to take into consideration a lot of factors whenever they make their decisions. They can't just always look at who the better, proven player is; they have to look at the team as a whole, and the direction they're taking.

Nature Boy
08-06-2008, 03:11 AM
Nate's only played sparingly in 2006, and it last season, he played for a defense that was experimenting on a different scheme. He also played outside LB, not mike. DJ hasn't looked very good at sam, he's looked great at wil, and though he had a lot of tackles, he wasn't as effective at mike. A new article says part of it was the scheme, since it left the center unblocked to block him.

I'd like to see how Webster and Niko do in games with their new roles in this current defense, before I make any assumptions.

On the Willis-Clady thing, you would rather have a proven star at a position that isn't that great of a need to the Broncos, than a potential star in a position that is one of the greatest needs of the Broncos, with them being an offensive team.

Let's say we know Jake was not that interested in football any longer, and Shanny drafted Cutler with the 11th pick, because he believed he was the QB the Broncos would need to get to a SB. Then let's say Willis already the player he is today and a trade could be made for him and the inexperienced Cutler.

You'd still probably choose Willis. I'd stick with Cutler, because this offensive team is looking for a potentially great QB.

If you were Chicago, would you trade an unproven rookie Michael Jordan for a proven star like Kevin McHale?

The Chiefs have traded one of the best DEs in the league for unproven draft picks. And it's not like Allen does not fit their youth movement; he's still pretty young and at the prime of his career. Yet they've traded a very known factor, for pure potential.

Not everything is as simple a decision as it seems. If we traded Clady for Willis, then Clady turns out to be one of the best LTs in the game, and Cutler gets seriously injured because of a lack of protection, the decision would, in hindsight, be the wrong one.

That's why GMs have to take into consideration a lot of factors whenever they make their decisions. They can't just always look at who the better, proven player is; they have to look at the team as a whole, and the direction they're taking.

Wow. You said a whole lot there but at the same time you said nothing; I fail to see any points being made here except some contradictions and a little bit of circle talk.

Niko sucks, Nate sucks. I've seen enough of Nate to figure that one out. Nate didn't do anything in Miami except play backup and that's all he's good for here except we don't have any other option as Niko didn't exactly pan out to be what we expected when we signed him.

Patrick Willis for Ryan Clady would be a steal for the Broncos but in Mike Shanny and Pat Bowlen wildest pipe-dreams. I don't have to get into anymore detail as I've already explained it.

I wouldn't trade Cutler for Patrick Willis for the obvious reasons. Cutler's already shown he can be a top 5 QB in this league in my opinion.

Cutler gets hurt w/o Clady or great protection, Clady becomes a stud LT, young rookie Micheal Jordan for Kevin McHale. You're talking about what ifs and hindsight as we all know it's a pretty weak argument. Not only is it weak, it's quite ridiculous in my opinion.

The Chiefs were stupid to trade off Jered Allen for 2 1st round draft picks. The picks can be 1 or 2 super stars or they can both be bust.

Which goes right back to my point. Go for the guarantee. Patrick Willis is a Guaranteed super star middle linebacker where as Ryan Clady is all potential. I'll repeat again, George Foster had the same exact potential and training camp buzz as Clady until we actually saw him play extensively in live regular season games.

Omac, you don't have to reply back anymore. I've covered all the points that you did have and it wasn't in your last post.

.

omac
08-06-2008, 06:57 AM
Wow. You said a whole lot there but at the same time you said nothing; I fail to see any points being made here except some contradictions and a little bit of circle talk.

Niko sucks, Nate sucks. I've seen enough of Nate to figure that one out. Nate didn't do anything in Miami except play backup and that's all he's good for here except we don't have any other option as Niko didn't exactly pan out to be what we expected when we signed him.

Patrick Willis for Ryan Clady would be a steal for the Broncos but in Mike Shanny and Pat Bowlen wildest pipe-dreams. I don't have to get into anymore detail as I've already explained it.

I wouldn't trade Cutler for Patrick Willis for the obvious reasons. Cutler's already shown he can be a top 5 QB in this league in my opinion.

Cutler gets hurt w/o Clady or great protection, Clady becomes a stud LT, young rookie Micheal Jordan for Kevin McHale. You're talking about what ifs and hindsight as we all know it's a pretty weak argument. Not only is it weak, it's quite ridiculous in my opinion.

The Chiefs were stupid to trade off Jered Allen for 2 1st round draft picks. The picks can be 1 or 2 super stars or they can both be bust.

Which goes right back to my point. Go for the guarantee. Patrick Willis is a Guaranteed super star middle linebacker where as Ryan Clady is all potential. I'll repeat again, George Foster had the same exact potential and training camp buzz as Clady until we actually saw him play extensively in live regular season games.

Omac, you don't have to reply back anymore. I've covered all the points that you did have and it wasn't in your last post.

.

You've only showed in your post that you don't really bother to understand a different point of view, and in my hypothetical situation, it was Cutler who'd be the unproven rookie; at that point, you wouldn't know just how good he is or could be. You've also already dubbed the Chiefs management stupid for their Jared Allen move, without waiting to see if it will make their team better as a whole.

You don't have to reply back anymore, but I'm fairly possitive you will because you like to always get the last word. Basically, what you say in a lot of your posts are "this is my point of view, and anyone who thinks differently is an idiot", including the Chiefs management for trading Allen, and probably the Broncos too for cutting Travis Henry. :coffee:

Lonestar
08-06-2008, 01:18 PM
You've only showed in your post that you don't really bother to understand a different point of view, and in my hypothetical situation, it was Cutler who'd be the unproven rookie; at that point, you wouldn't know just how good he is or could be. You've also already dubbed the Chiefs management stupid for their Jared Allen move, without waiting to see if it will make their team better as a whole.

You don't have to reply back anymore, but I'm fairly possitive you will because you like to always get the last word. Basically, what you say in a lot of your posts are "this is my point of view, and anyone who thinks differently is an idiot", including the Chiefs management for trading Allen, and probably the Broncos too for cutting Travis Henry. :coffee:


the key to the entire conversation..

OMorange&blue
08-06-2008, 02:02 PM
Thanks for agreeing with me. A sure fire star player in Patrick Willis for a maybe with great potential in Clady? I'll take the guaranteed paid.

It's like playing Black Jack if any of you have played. When you hit 21 but the the dealer is showing an ace on the draw. What do you do? Even money or gamble and get 1.5 on your money? The smart money is to get guaranteed paid.

Well in our hypothetical scenario, the smart money is to take the guaranteed money(Willis) and run. End of discussion.

Well thank god thats over.

Nature Boy
08-06-2008, 07:53 PM
You've only showed in your post that you don't really bother to understand a different point of view, and in my hypothetical situation, it was Cutler who'd be the unproven rookie; at that point, you wouldn't know just how good he is or could be. You've also already dubbed the Chiefs management stupid for their Jared Allen move, without waiting to see if it will make their team better as a whole.

You don't have to reply back anymore, but I'm fairly possitive you will because you like to always get the last word. Basically, what you say in a lot of your posts are "this is my point of view, and anyone who thinks differently is an idiot", including the Chiefs management for trading Allen, and probably the Broncos too for cutting Travis Henry. :coffee:

To answer your hypothetical question on Cutler than as a rookie for Patrick Willis as we know him to be now and we still had Plummer aboard? Yes, I would have traded Cutler for Patrick Willis, but it's definitely a tougher choice than trading Clady because Cutler was in my opinion the best QB in 2006 and a true franchise QB. Also, it's a lot easier to say pick that apart and say no because it's all hindsight. In Clady's case, we don't have that luxury so you would be an idiot if you don't think trading Clady for Patrick Willis is a great idea.

The other difference between your hypothetical question and mine, is that as improbable as mine is, your's is totally impossible. But I get, it's only hypothetical and I answered your question.

If you didn't know. The Broncos didn't have a choice but to cut Travis Henry and it wasn't because of his ability to run the ball.

.

OMorange&blue
08-06-2008, 07:59 PM
To answer your hypothetical question on Cutler than as a rookie for Patrick Willis as we know him to be now and we still had Plummer aboard? Yes, I would have traded Cutler for Patrick Willis, but it's definitely a tougher choice than trading Clady because Cutler was in my opinion the best QB in 2006 and a true franchise QB. Also, it's a lot easier to say pick that apart and say no because it's all hindsight. In Clady's case, we don't have that luxury so you would be an idiot if you don't think trading Clady for Patrick Willis is a great idea.



.

Its official. I'm an idiot.

Italianmobstr7
08-06-2008, 08:10 PM
Okay...Natureboy. Trading a possible FRANCHISE LT right now for a very good, probably soon to be GREAT MLB is a DUMB idea for the BRONCOS franchise. It would make absolutely no sense on our part to trade what could be a great player that we have in a POSITION OF NEED. Trading Clady would be the stupidest thing that our team could do. The only way that we trade Clady is if we trade him to a team with a proven stud LEFT TACKLE. Trading Clady for Willis makes absolutely no sense. I don't know where this even came up, but not only will it NOT happen. But it will NEVER happen. Willis is a proven beast, but he's not worth giving up our possible franchise LT. We don't absolutely NEED a MLB right now. We'll be just fine with what we have. We NEED a LT. And that's exactly what we've got. No reason to go along calling other people idiots, when it is apparently YOU who doesn't understand what's best for our franchise...

Nature Boy
08-06-2008, 08:25 PM
Okay...Natureboy. Trading a possible FRANCHISE LT right now for a very good, probably soon to be GREAT MLB is a DUMB idea for the BRONCOS franchise. It would make absolutely no sense on our part to trade what could be a great player that we have in a POSITION OF NEED. Trading Clady would be the stupidest thing that our team could do. The only way that we trade Clady is if we trade him to a team with a proven stud LEFT TACKLE. Trading Clady for Willis makes absolutely no sense. I don't know where this even came up, but not only will it NOT happen. But it will NEVER happen. Willis is a proven beast, but he's not worth giving up our possible franchise LT. We don't absolutely NEED a MLB right now. We'll be just fine with what we have. We NEED a LT. And that's exactly what we've got. No reason to go along calling other people idiots, when it is apparently YOU who doesn't understand what's best for our franchise...

The words in the highlight, bold and enlarged speak for themselves.

Let me remind you, George Foster was a franchise LT at one time too. Well he was when he was about as far as Clady is right now in Foster's career. Clady was drafted with the 12th overall, George Foster with the 20th overall in the 1st round.

See what I'm saying. Who wouldn't take a sure fire top ranked middle linebacker for a rookie LT with only potential? Only an idiot wouldn't make that trade.

O yea, don't forget, Nate Websters sucks and so does Niko Kooties.

.

Tned
08-06-2008, 08:28 PM
The words in the highlight, bold and enlarged speak for themselves.

Let me remind you, George Foster was a franchise LT at one time too. Well he was when he was about as far as Clady is right now in Foster's career. Clady was drafted with the 12th overall, George Foster with the 20th overall in the 1st round.

See what I'm saying. Who wouldn't take a sure fire top ranked middle linebacker for a rookie LT with only potential? Only an idiot wouldn't make that trade.

O yea, don't forget, Nate Websters sucks and so does Niko Kooties.

.


It will never happen, so I guess it doesn't matter.

Nature Boy
08-06-2008, 08:40 PM
Yep, it'll never happen. I think the hypothetical trade arose from Nate and Niko sucks and how bad we need a great middle linebacker to anchor the heart of our defense. Particularly our inability to stop the run game as it was the teams glaring weakness last season.

Italianmobstr7
08-06-2008, 10:05 PM
The words in the highlight, bold and enlarged speak for themselves.

Let me remind you, George Foster was a franchise LT at one time too. Well he was when he was about as far as Clady is right now in Foster's career. Clady was drafted with the 12th overall, George Foster with the 20th overall in the 1st round.

See what I'm saying. Who wouldn't take a sure fire top ranked middle linebacker for a rookie LT with only potential? Only an idiot wouldn't make that trade.

O yea, don't forget, Nate Websters sucks and so does Niko Kooties.

.

The point that you're not getting is that Denver does not NEED a MLB. We NEED a LT. Regardless of how you feel about Kootie and Webster, they are good enough to be a stop gap for a year. I understand where you're coming from with the "Willis is proven, Clady is not" argument, but it still doesn't hold because we don't have a NEED at MLB like we do at LT. Denver will take a "possible" star in Clady at LT before it will take a proven star at MLB. So the Denver Broncos franchise would be the IDIOTS if they ever even thought about that trade because it DOESN'T MAKE ANY SENSE for the team in any way.

MOtorboat
08-06-2008, 10:48 PM
A left tackle will ALWAYS take precedence over a linebacker. Always.

Just look at the contracts...

Nature Boy
08-07-2008, 12:50 AM
The point that you're not getting is that Denver does not NEED a MLB. We NEED a LT. Regardless of how you feel about Kootie and Webster, they are good enough to be a stop gap for a year. I understand where you're coming from with the "Willis is proven, Clady is not" argument, but it still doesn't hold because we don't have a NEED at MLB like we do at LT. Denver will take a "possible" star in Clady at LT before it will take a proven star at MLB. So the Denver Broncos franchise would be the IDIOTS if they ever even thought about that trade because it DOESN'T MAKE ANY SENSE for the team in any way.



A left tackle will ALWAYS take precedence over a linebacker. Always.

Just look at the contracts...


I know the Broncos need a LT more so than they need MLB. I also know that the LT position is a more pressing and valuable position than the MLB position. I also know OTs get paid drastically more than MLBs without looking at a list.

The whole objective is to get an all world middle linebacker on the roster for the next 7-8 yrs+/- for the price of a rookie LT that may or may not prove to be much or anything at all. Just think about it, a proven bonafide STUD middle linebacker going on only his 2nd year for a rookie that may or may not pan out.

With that said, and the hypothetical trade done, to address the LT position, I would scour the FA market, not just now but 1-2 months ago shortly after the draft, remember, this is my what if thought. If necessary, I would look for a possible trade for someone. Next year's 1st round pick would not be off the table as trade bait.

I still think no GM in their right mind would pass up on such a trade if the offer was presented in front of them.

Italianmobstr7
08-07-2008, 01:06 AM
I guarantee that the Broncos GM would laugh at that, and immediately tell the 49ers "Hell No" or "You've got to be kidding me. You're crazy." I understand the objective, but the objective makes no sense for our football team. We've now seen Clady and we think he's going to be pretty damn good. Sometimes you have to let things go and see if they pan out. Regardless of how good Willis is, the potential that Clady has outweighs Willis' proven ability because it's not a position of need or importance at this time.

Nature Boy
08-07-2008, 10:00 AM
I guarantee that the Broncos GM would laugh at that, and immediately tell the 49ers "Hell No" or "You've got to be kidding me. You're crazy." I understand the objective, but the objective makes no sense for our football team. We've now seen Clady and we think he's going to be pretty damn good. Sometimes you have to let things go and see if they pan out. Regardless of how good Willis is, the potential that Clady has outweighs Willis' proven ability because it's not a position of need or importance at this time.

Yes, you're one of those that I've already labeled that doesn't see the absolute steal in this make belief steal. End of discussion.

MOtorboat
08-07-2008, 10:08 AM
There are a reason LTs make more money than MLBs.

And tell me this...how do you KNOW Willis will be a star for 7-8 years and Clady won't be.

Shanahan would laugh at that trade...or should.

Scouring the free agent world for LTs gets you Damien McIntosh and Herb Taylor at tackle. Ask the Chiefs how they are feeling about that.

Italianmobstr7
08-07-2008, 12:33 PM
Yes, you're one of those that I've already labeled that doesn't see the absolute steal in this make belief steal. End of discussion.

You're one of those **EDIT** single minded people who doesn't see what a BAD idea it would be to trade a franchise LT for a LB who was a stud in his rookie year! I swear I could hammer this through your head and you still wouldn't get it. How is every one on this board wrong, and you're right? Do you want to explain that. You're just having a problem admitting that you're WRONG and that it would be absolutely ridiculous to trade Clady for ANY mlb at this point and time. No one else on here would make that trade, and neither would any NFL GM because it would be absolutely freaking retarded to have a stud MLB instead of a Franchise LT even if there's a chance that the LT wouldn't pan out.

Simple Jaded
08-07-2008, 12:44 PM
When I was a kid I traded all my Lego's for a BB Gun......seemed like a good trade at the time......

Davii
08-07-2008, 12:45 PM
When I was a kid I traded all my Lego's for a BB Gun......seemed like a good trade at the time......

Did you shoot your eye out?

underrated29
08-07-2008, 01:49 PM
Or we can wait until next year and have both. The best LT prospect of last years draft (clady). And one of the best 1st rd prospects of next years draft (malaualuga, laurinitis)

i say this because it was praposed that the next years #1 picks might also be a trade bait.

Also, I would say that a LT no matter how good clady is/will be, needs some time to learn our ZBS (which clady has experience in.) like a year or two.

A Mike LB can come in from day one and make an impact.

MOtorboat
08-07-2008, 01:53 PM
Or we can wait until next year and have both. The best LT prospect of last years draft (clady). And one of the best 1st rd prospects of next years draft (malaualuga, laurinitis)

You planning on losing 12 games?

turftoad
08-07-2008, 01:54 PM
I still think no GM in their right mind would pass up on such a trade if the offer was presented in front of them.


Yes they would. Most GM's know that other than the QB position, LT is the second hardest to fill long term.

underrated29
08-07-2008, 02:24 PM
You planning on losing 12 games?




No, but he mentioned the fact of other teams and our 1st rdrs in a trade. So we could possible move from late teens/twenties up to 10ish with two firsts'.

Which is likely where on of them will land. (going off of the past few drafts history.)

Simple Jaded
08-07-2008, 04:10 PM
The only one of those MLB's that Denver would conceivably be in a position to draft would be Laurinitis, no thank you......

Nature Boy
08-07-2008, 07:13 PM
There are a reason LTs make more money than MLBs.

And tell me this...how do you KNOW Willis will be a star for 7-8 years and Clady won't be.

Shanahan would laugh at that trade...or should.

Scouring the free agent world for LTs gets you Damien McIntosh and Herb Taylor at tackle. Ask the Chiefs how they are feeling about that.


You're one of those **EDIT** single minded people who doesn't see what a BAD idea it would be to trade a franchise LT for a LB who was a stud in his rookie year! I swear I could hammer this through your head and you still wouldn't get it. How is every one on this board wrong, and you're right? Do you want to explain that. You're just having a problem admitting that you're WRONG and that it would be absolutely ridiculous to trade Clady for ANY mlb at this point and time. No one else on here would make that trade, and neither would any NFL GM because it would be absolutely freaking retarded to have a stud MLB instead of a Franchise LT even if there's a chance that the LT wouldn't pan out.


This is funny. Who says Ryan Clady is a franchise LT? Have you seen him play an NFL down? I haven't. Wasn't George Foster also a franchise OT this far into training camp?

It's an easy choice. The best young middle linebacker in the league vs a rookie LT. Anyone with an ounce of football brains would choose Patrick Willis, maybe the best middle linebacker in the entire NFL.

Maybe I should start a poll in a non Broncos football board to see who NFL football fans would choose. I bet I know most everyone will pick.

MOtorboat
08-07-2008, 07:16 PM
This is funny. Who says Ryan Clady is a franchise LT? Have you seen him play an NFL down? I haven't. Wasn't George Foster also a franchise OT this far into training camp?

It's an easy choice. The best young middle linebacker in the league vs a rookie LT. Anyone with an ounce of football brains would choose Patrick Willis, maybe the best middle linebacker in the entire NFL.

Maybe I should start a poll in a non Broncos football board to see who NFL football fans would choose. I bet I know most everyone will pick.

OK...let's try this again.

NFL teams do not trade, or even contemplate trading, a potential franchise left tackle for a middle linebacker. Yes, even a potential franchise left tackle. Actually, anyone with an ounce of football knowledge would know how important it is to have a left tackle.

They don't do it.

Now, a franchise defensive end...maybe...but a linebacker. No.

Nature Boy
08-07-2008, 07:20 PM
The only one of those MLB's that Denver would conceivably be in a position to draft would be Laurinitis, no thank you......

What's wrong with James Laurinitis? I think Rey Muauluga is a better middle linebacker but maybe it's because I see him more and because of my west coast bias. From the hype from the media, James Laurinitis sounds like a guaranteed star in the NFL. Then again, I haven't seen him play much and it's possible he's getting all that hype because his name is cool. LAURINITIS :laugh:

.

Nature Boy
08-07-2008, 07:24 PM
OK...let's try this again.

NFL teams do not trade, or even contemplate trading, a potential franchise left tackle for a middle linebacker. Yes, even a potential franchise left tackle. Actually, anyone with an ounce of football knowledge would know how important it is to have a left tackle.

They don't do it.

Now, a franchise defensive end...maybe...but a linebacker. No.


It's only hypothetical. Don't answer the question if you don't wanna play.

I'll ask again. If you were a GM and you had the option of picking Patrick Willis or Ryan Clady on your team. Who would you pick. Any idiot would take Patrick Willis. End of discussion.

You just don't pass up on a once in a decade middle linebacker like Patrick Willis. Just like you don't pass up on a player like Ray Lewis of 10 years ago. done. finito. no mas. talk to the hand. :elefant:

MOtorboat
08-07-2008, 07:32 PM
It's only hypothetical. Don't answer the question if you don't wanna play.

I'll ask again. If you were a GM and you had the option of picking Patrick Willis or Ryan Clady on your team. Who would you pick. Any idiot would take Patrick Willis. End of discussion.

You just don't pass up on a once in a decade middle linebacker like Patrick Willis. Just like you don't pass up on a player like Ray Lewis of 10 years ago. done. finito. no mas. talk to the hand. :elefant:

I have answered the question.

I'm sorry, but one year does not end a discussion like that. Right now...if I was choosing...I'd choose the LT, especially in the position the Broncos are in right now.

And you know why the Ravens could invest in Ray Lewis...because they already had Jonathan Ogdon.

Italianmobstr7
08-07-2008, 07:44 PM
I have answered the question.

I'm sorry, but one year does not end a discussion like that. Right now...if I was choosing...I'd choose the LT, especially in the position the Broncos are in right now.

And you know why the Ravens could invest in Ray Lewis...because they already had Jonathan Ogdon.

EXACTLY! It depends on the teams situation! So if we're talking about the DENVER BRONCOS then we would take the possible franchise LT. If we were set at LT THEN we take the stud MLB. It's not a hard decision for any body who knows anything about football. If you have a franchise LT and no need for another, you take the MLB. If you have a decent MLB and a decent LT you ALWAYS take your chances with a LT, even if they are a drafted rookie. Plus, Patrick Willis has played exactly 1 year. He led the league in tackles because his defense was always on the field because of the 49ers horrible offense. His stats were skewed, and there's no telling how good he'll be for another "7-8 years" as you said in an earlier post. So this argument really comes down to each individual teams situation.

If you're Denver's GM and we're in the situation we're at right now. The 49ers GM calls and says "I'll trade you Pat Willis for Ryan Clady straight up" Then the Broncos GM says "No." Why does he say "No."? Because Denver DOES NOT NEED A MLB NO MATTER HOW GOOD HE MAY BE. THEY NEED A LEFT TACKLE. We're pretty sure that we've found one in Ryan Clady. Denver is set at MLB for this season whether you like it or not.

Nature Boy
08-07-2008, 07:59 PM
Patrick Willis had 174 tackles, 135 of which were solo, 4 sacks, 2 forced fumbles and 5 passes deflected in what is his 1st season as a rookie.

*************************************************
In his first NFL game, Willis recorded 11 tackles, including 9 solo, and a forced fumble as the 49ers defeated the Arizona Cardinals in dramatic fashion by a score of 20-17. For his effort, he won the Diet Pepsi Rookie of the Week Award. One of Willis' strongest performances came against the Minnesota Vikings, as he led the 49ers defense in containing Offensive Rookie of the Year Adrian Peterson, who managed just 3 yards on 14 carries. "I got hit pretty hard and glad that he's (Patrick Willis) on the NFC team in the Pro Bowl", Peterson stated in the post-game press conference. Willis' most impressive statistical performance came in week 16 at home against the Tampa Bay Buccaneers. In this game he recorded 20 total tackles, 2 sacks, 1 forced fumble and 1 pass deflected in a 21-19 victory, earning Rookie of the Week honors for the fourth time. In addition to receiving the award in weeks 1 and 16, Willis took home the award in weeks 2 and 12. He was also awarded the GMC Defensive player of the Week twice.

Willis finished the 2007 campaign with an NFL-leading 174 total tackles, along with 4 sacks, 2 forced fumbles, and 5 passes deflected. As a result, Willis was one of two 49ers selected to the Pro Bowl along with punter Andy Lee. Other honors earned at the conclusion of his first professional season included being named the NFC Defensive Rookie of the Year, NFL Defensive Rookie of the Year, and First Team All-Pro by the Associated Press. He was the only rookie in the NFL to make the AP All-Pro squad and the first Defensive Rookie from the 49ers to make the Pro Bowl since Ronnie Lott in 1981. His season was capped by being named one of ESPN The Magazine's "NEXT" athletes of 2008.

-from Wikipedia

*********************************

The guy flat out singlehandedly wins football games and that's coming from the middle linebacker position, not offense. How a guy can pass on that for a rookie LT if even in a what if? hypothetical question is beyond me. You just don't pass up on a player of this caliber no matter what situation your team is in.

The way Missouri Bronc puts it, the 1st 15 guys drafted on any draft should only be QBs, OTs, DEs and nothing else. Every GM in the league and especially Mike Shanahan more or less goes by this rule when drafting players. You draft the best player available, not by position of need. You can always make adjustments through other means whether it be trades or FA.

:coffee:

.

MOtorboat
08-07-2008, 08:05 PM
Patrick Willis had 174 tackles, 135 of which were solo, 4 sacks, 2 forced fumbles and 5 passes deflected in what is his 1st season as a rookie.

*************************************************
In his first NFL game, Willis recorded 11 tackles, including 9 solo, and a forced fumble as the 49ers defeated the Arizona Cardinals in dramatic fashion by a score of 20-17. For his effort, he won the Diet Pepsi Rookie of the Week Award. One of Willis' strongest performances came against the Minnesota Vikings, as he led the 49ers defense in containing Offensive Rookie of the Year Adrian Peterson, who managed just 3 yards on 14 carries. "I got hit pretty hard and glad that he's (Patrick Willis) on the NFC team in the Pro Bowl", Peterson stated in the post-game press conference. Willis' most impressive statistical performance came in week 16 at home against the Tampa Bay Buccaneers. In this game he recorded 20 total tackles, 2 sacks, 1 forced fumble and 1 pass deflected in a 21-19 victory, earning Rookie of the Week honors for the fourth time. In addition to receiving the award in weeks 1 and 16, Willis took home the award in weeks 2 and 12. He was also awarded the GMC Defensive player of the Week twice.

Willis finished the 2007 campaign with an NFL-leading 174 total tackles, along with 4 sacks, 2 forced fumbles, and 5 passes deflected. As a result, Willis was one of two 49ers selected to the Pro Bowl along with punter Andy Lee. Other honors earned at the conclusion of his first professional season included being named the NFC Defensive Rookie of the Year, NFL Defensive Rookie of the Year, and First Team All-Pro by the Associated Press. He was the only rookie in the NFL to make the AP All-Pro squad and the first Defensive Rookie from the 49ers to make the Pro Bowl since Ronnie Lott in 1981. His season was capped by being named one of ESPN The Magazine's "NEXT" athletes of 2008.

-from Wikipedia

*********************************

The guy flat out singlehandedly wins football games and that's coming from the middle linebacker position, not offense. How a guy can pass on that for a rookie LT if even in a what if? hypothetical question is beyond me. You just don't pass up on a player of this caliber no matter what situation your team is in.

The way Missouri Bronc puts it, the 1st 15 guys drafted on any draft should only be QBs, OTs, DEs and nothing else. Every GM in the league and especially Mike Shanahan more or less goes by this rule when drafting players. You draft the best player available, not by position of need. You can always make adjustments through other means whether it be trades or FA.

:coffee:

.

A couple of things.

I'm well aware of what Willis' accomplishments were. Let's also consider that there's not any other good players around him and he was forced to make those plays.

With that said...there were no LTs or DEs available, and the 49ers believe they have their QB in Alex Smith, although it seems they are losing that confidence in him.

Guess why they didn't win many games the past few seasons...because they can't keep Alex Smith upright.

MOtorboat
08-07-2008, 08:06 PM
Oh...and if he was a can't miss player...he would have been drafted first.

Stargazer
08-07-2008, 08:07 PM
Patrick Willis had 174 tackles, 135 of which were solo, 4 sacks, 2 forced fumbles and 5 passes deflected in what is his 1st season as a rookie.

*************************************************
In his first NFL game, Willis recorded 11 tackles, including 9 solo, and a forced fumble as the 49ers defeated the Arizona Cardinals in dramatic fashion by a score of 20-17. For his effort, he won the Diet Pepsi Rookie of the Week Award. One of Willis' strongest performances came against the Minnesota Vikings, as he led the 49ers defense in containing Offensive Rookie of the Year Adrian Peterson, who managed just 3 yards on 14 carries. "I got hit pretty hard and glad that he's (Patrick Willis) on the NFC team in the Pro Bowl", Peterson stated in the post-game press conference. Willis' most impressive statistical performance came in week 16 at home against the Tampa Bay Buccaneers. In this game he recorded 20 total tackles, 2 sacks, 1 forced fumble and 1 pass deflected in a 21-19 victory, earning Rookie of the Week honors for the fourth time. In addition to receiving the award in weeks 1 and 16, Willis took home the award in weeks 2 and 12. He was also awarded the GMC Defensive player of the Week twice.

Willis finished the 2007 campaign with an NFL-leading 174 total tackles, along with 4 sacks, 2 forced fumbles, and 5 passes deflected. As a result, Willis was one of two 49ers selected to the Pro Bowl along with punter Andy Lee. Other honors earned at the conclusion of his first professional season included being named the NFC Defensive Rookie of the Year, NFL Defensive Rookie of the Year, and First Team All-Pro by the Associated Press. He was the only rookie in the NFL to make the AP All-Pro squad and the first Defensive Rookie from the 49ers to make the Pro Bowl since Ronnie Lott in 1981. His season was capped by being named one of ESPN The Magazine's "NEXT" athletes of 2008.

-from Wikipedia


DJ, WILLIS, BOSS

:eek::eek::eek: