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Skinny
09-13-2007, 12:29 PM
By Greg Cosell
Posted: September 13, 2007

Vince Young? No. Matt Leinart? No. The best quarterback in the celebrated 2006 NFL draft will be the third one selected, Jay Cutler.

Playing quarterback in the NFL is about dropping back, setting up quickly and delivering the ball accurately to the right receiver at the right time. There's more to it, of course, but those are the key skills that produce elite quarterback play. And Cutler best exhibits that skill set.

Cutler has no limitations in terms of arm strength -- downfield throws, deep comebacks, balls down the seams. In fact, Denver's passing game became more vertical after Cutler replaced Jake Plummer last season.

Young and Leinart can't make all those throws. And Cutler has shown a willingness to make tight throws into small windows downfield. You have to do that in the NFL. Cutler also will stand in the pocket, looking down the gun barrel with bodies around him, and throw the ball. That's critical.

Leinart has a tendency to fall away from throws in the face of pressure. He will have to become firmer in the pocket. He also needs room in front of him to step into his throws.

Cutler, on the other hand, can flick the ball downfield without getting his body behind it.

The bottom line on Leinart: He has poise and awareness at the line of scrimmage, understands protections and blitzes, knows where his receivers are, doesn't force the ball into coverage and makes few mistakes. He simply has limitations as a passer.

Young needs the most work. He has never been a pocket quarterback and has demonstrated a strong tendency to leave the pocket prematurely. Too much dependence on athleticism and improvisation will delay his necessary development, not enhance it.

Young leaves a lot of throws on the field, not pulling the trigger when receivers are open. He lacks timing and anticipation as a passer. He has more confidence in his legs than his arm. He certainly has a flair for the dramatic, but that doesn't produce consistent quarterback play in the NFL.

Cutler is far from a finished product. He sometimes perceives pressure when it isn't there, makes off-target throws and locks on to receivers. Leinart and Young can become winning quarterbacks, but Cutler has the best chance to become truly special.

http://www.sportingnews.com/yourturn/viewtopic.php?t=272461

Lonestar
09-13-2007, 12:44 PM
By Greg Cosell
Posted: September 13, 2007

Vince Young? No. Matt Leinart? No. The best quarterback in the celebrated 2006 NFL draft will be the third one selected, Jay Cutler.

Playing quarterback in the NFL is about dropping back, setting up quickly and delivering the ball accurately to the right receiver at the right time. There's more to it, of course, but those are the key skills that produce elite quarterback play. And Cutler best exhibits that skill set.

Cutler has no limitations in terms of arm strength -- downfield throws, deep comebacks, balls down the seams. In fact, Denver's passing game became more vertical after Cutler replaced Jake Plummer last season.

Young and Leinart can't make all those throws. And Cutler has shown a willingness to make tight throws into small windows downfield. You have to do that in the NFL. Cutler also will stand in the pocket, looking down the gun barrel with bodies around him, and throw the ball. That's critical.

Leinart has a tendency to fall away from throws in the face of pressure. He will have to become firmer in the pocket. He also needs room in front of him to step into his throws.

Cutler, on the other hand, can flick the ball downfield without getting his body behind it.

The bottom line on Leinart: He has poise and awareness at the line of scrimmage, understands protections and blitzes, knows where his receivers are, doesn't force the ball into coverage and makes few mistakes. He simply has limitations as a passer.

Young needs the most work. He has never been a pocket quarterback and has demonstrated a strong tendency to leave the pocket prematurely. Too much dependence on athleticism and improvisation will delay his necessary development, not enhance it.

Young leaves a lot of throws on the field, not pulling the trigger when receivers are open. He lacks timing and anticipation as a passer. He has more confidence in his legs than his arm. He certainly has a flair for the dramatic, but that doesn't produce consistent quarterback play in the NFL.

Cutler is far from a finished product. He sometimes perceives pressure when it isn't there, makes off-target throws and locks on to receivers. Leinart and Young can become winning quarterbacks, but Cutler has the best chance to become truly special.

http://www.sportingnews.com/yourturn/viewtopic.php?t=272461


Good Read:listen:

TXBRONC
09-13-2007, 02:06 PM
Wow that is high praise, and for obvious reasons I sure hope they're right. When we drafted Cutler two years ago there was guy who came to Broncomania claiming that Leinart had all tools to be the best of the bunch because he was light years ahead of Cutler and Young. It kind of looks like that really might not be the case.

Watchthemiddle
09-13-2007, 03:06 PM
That was a good read. THis is definately going to be a class of 83 all over again.


THese three are going to be compared to each other for their entire careers. Thats good.

arapaho2
09-13-2007, 04:28 PM
That was a good read. THis is definately going to be a class of 83 all over again.


THese three are going to be compared to each other for their entire careers. Thats good.


i doubt after five year if young will be in the discussion...he will slowly fade out of the spotlight of truely top notch qbs and be relegated to the mobile qbs with poor passing pile ...a 2006 version of kordell stewart

omac
09-13-2007, 04:36 PM
Great read, skinny! :salute:


That was a good read. THis is definately going to be a class of 83 all over again.


THese three are going to be compared to each other for their entire careers. Thats good.

Yep, and hopefully, all enter the hall of fame too, and the one from Denver wins the superbowls. :cool:

TXBRONC
09-13-2007, 04:43 PM
Great read, skinny! :salute:



Yep, and hopefully, all enter the hall of fame too, and the one from Denver wins the superbowls. :cool:

Yeah hopefully Jay wins several. :2thumbs:

Watchthemiddle
09-13-2007, 04:48 PM
i doubt after five year if young will be in the discussion...he will slowly fade out of the spotlight of truely top notch qbs and be relegated to the mobile qbs with poor passing pile ...a 2006 version of kordell stewart

I wouldn't be so quick to judge Young. He is only going to get better as will the other two. He is a gamer if anything and with proper coaching to go along with his athleticism, he could actually be more dangerous 5 years from now then the others.

Lonestar
09-13-2007, 05:03 PM
I wouldn't be so quick to judge Young. He is only going to get better as will the other two. He is a gamer if anything and with proper coaching to go along with his athleticism, he could actually be more dangerous 5 years from now then the others.

I think you may be correct here IF the coaches take him under their wing and teach him how to pass that ball his running ability will only be enhanced. I'm not talking about a Marino type passer but Fran Tarkington was one hell of a QB fro a long time just on a crappy team. I think Young's coaches are top Notch perhaps not Mikey quality but the next tier and that ain't bad.

You have to remember that many on here are total homers and anything or anyone that is mentioned above almost anyone on the Broncos will be automatically Pooh poohed as not as good.

This should be a great QB class.

Watchthemiddle
09-13-2007, 05:25 PM
I think you may be correct here IF the coaches take him under their wing and teach him how to pass that ball his running ability will only be enhanced. I'm not talking about a Marino type passer but Fran Tarkington was one hell of a QB fro a long time just on a crappy team. I think Young's coaches are top Notch perhaps not Mikey quality but the next tier and that ain't bad.

You have to remember that many on here are total homers and anything or anyone that is mentioned above almost anyone on the Broncos will be automatically Pooh poohed as not as good.

This should be a great QB class.

I am a total homer, but I also know and have enough common sense to realize that there is other talent in the NFL besides my team.

I have a good friend who lives in Kentucky and is a die hard Titans fan. Young has saved Jeff Fisher from his job and from retirement. If you remember a few years ago, Fisher was about to hang it up. Young is now the spark plug for Fisher to stay. He has brought new life to the organization and community.

Don't get me wrong, I think Cutler is a better "Quarterback" but Young is a heck of a QB and speciman as well.

topscribe
09-13-2007, 05:29 PM
I've always hated the Cardinals, with a passion exceeded only by my hate for
the Raiders. Tennessee hasn't even been a blip in my radar, although I hated
their predecessors, the Houston Oilers.

But now I could bow at the feet of both teams out of pure gratefulness,
profusely thanking them for taking Leinart and Young, respectively. They got
very good prospects for QBs.

We got the star. :first:

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Day1BroncoFan
09-13-2007, 06:05 PM
Great post. Thanks for posting it.

Cutler all the way!

TXBRONC
09-13-2007, 06:06 PM
I wouldn't be so quick to judge Young. He is only going to get better as will the other two. He is a gamer if anything and with proper coaching to go along with his athleticism, he could actually be more dangerous 5 years from now then the others.

If he can improve his accuracy, then I think you'll be right.

Watchthemiddle
09-13-2007, 06:20 PM
If he can improve his accuracy, then I think you'll be right.

He is not that far off. His accuracy is par for the rest of the NFL. Not the best, not the worst. I think he gets lumped in the "Vick" catagory for some reason because he can run.

TXBRONC
09-13-2007, 06:23 PM
He is not that far off. His accuracy is par for the rest of the NFL. Not the best, not the worst. I think he gets lumped in the "Vick" catagory for some reason because he can run.

I agree it's a bit unfair to put him in the "Vick" category.

Watchthemiddle
09-13-2007, 06:24 PM
I agree it's a bit unfair to put him in the "Vick" category.

THe football "Vick' catagory. :cool:

TXBRONC
09-13-2007, 06:38 PM
THe football "Vick' catagory. :cool:

I understood what you meant, and I also meant the same thing. :nod:

Rick
09-13-2007, 10:18 PM
I just don't find 11 for 18 and a measly 78 yards with no TDS and 1 pick great numbers.

If he consistently improves on that then he will get my respect but as of now I think as a passer he is very poor.

That being said though I have stated in the past there is more to the QB position than the ability to pass. You must be a leader, bring your team down the field and score points, get leads and maintain leads. Go on winning drives. Get that 'W'.

On those regards so far Young has proved to be just that. An excellent leader who despite inadequacies in the passing game always seems to find a way for his team to get the win.

So for that I can respect him.

TXBRONC
09-13-2007, 10:43 PM
I just don't find 11 for 18 and a measly 78 yards with no TDS and 1 pick great numbers.

If he consistently improves on that then he will get my respect but as of now I think as a passer he is very poor.

That being said though I have stated in the past there is more to the QB position than the ability to pass. You must be a leader, bring your team down the field and score points, get leads and maintain leads. Go on winning drives. Get that 'W'.

On those regards so far Young has proved to be just that. An excellent leader who despite inadequacies in the passing game always seems to find a way for his team to get the win.

So for that I can respect him.

I don't think anyone is going to say those are great numbers, because they're not. I think the only thing WTM is trying to get across is that he thinks that Vince will be a better quarterback than Michael Vick.

Rick
09-13-2007, 11:02 PM
I kinda think as far as passing he will end very similar to Vick, but as far as leadership and getting wins he will surpass Vick.

Hopefully for him he will not take the Vick route and be so reliant on running. Other very mobile QBs settled down and became very good passers, such as McNab and Culpepper(though he isn't very mobile anymore). Even Mcnair ranks in that a bit.

So really depends on what route he takes but I think it will be the Vick QB route.

I wasn't actually responding to anyone in particular on my statement, I was making my own opinion. I really only read a few posts :)

TXBRONC
09-14-2007, 12:38 AM
I kinda think as far as passing he will end very similar to Vick, but as far as leadership and getting wins he will surpass Vick.

Hopefully for him he will not take the Vick route and be so reliant on running. Other very mobile QBs settled down and became very good passers, such as McNab and Culpepper(though he isn't very mobile anymore). Even Mcnair ranks in that a bit.

So really depends on what route he takes but I think it will be the Vick QB route.

I wasn't actually responding to anyone in particular on my statement, I was making my own opinion. I really only read a few posts :)

I think you're right if Young doesn't adjust his throwing motion to some degree.

omac
09-14-2007, 12:43 AM
I kinda think as far as passing he will end very similar to Vick, but as far as leadership and getting wins he will surpass Vick.

Hopefully for him he will not take the Vick route and be so reliant on running. Other very mobile QBs settled down and became very good passers, such as McNab and Culpepper(though he isn't very mobile anymore). Even Mcnair ranks in that a bit.

So really depends on what route he takes but I think it will be the Vick QB route.

I wasn't actually responding to anyone in particular on my statement, I was making my own opinion. I really only read a few posts :)

I tend to agree with this post.

I think the Titans are doing the right thing; they're playing to Young's strengths, which is running. They're employing a spread offense to run the ball. This is usually very dangerous for an NFL quarterback, but Young has the ellusiveness and physique to make it work. They're customizing the offense to Vince's strengths, the same way Shanny did for Jake.

The good thing about this is, teams will make it harder for Vince to run, but in so doing will make it easier for him to pass. All Vince has to do is learn how pass in the areas the defense gives him while they're overplaying his run. That's a much simpler scenario than what Peyton encounters, and as long as it's kept simple, Vince can do really well. They should also use that rolling pocket for him. I think the worst thing they can do is to try and make him into a pocket passer ... way too many complex decisions, and he'll be starting from scratch.

topscribe
09-14-2007, 01:48 AM
I wouldn't be so quick to judge Young. He is only going to get better as will the other two. He is a gamer if anything and with proper coaching to go along with his athleticism, he could actually be more dangerous 5 years from now then the others.
Why, because he can run? In that case, he'll be more dangerous than
Peyton Manning?

Passing is always more dangerous than running. Were it not so, the forward
pass would not exist. Young will never be the passer Cutler is. Moreover,
Cutler is showing outstanding field presence and intelligence. And he can
run in his own right.

Young is an outstanding runner, but Cutler seems to be developing into a
field general and a playmaker . . . no, a game breaker, as he demonstrated
last week.

This isn't homer talking. I had Cutler by far above the others before anyone
outside Denver's FO had the foggiest he was destined to be a Bronco. And
my opinion was shared by several former QBs in the league . . . well, they
helped to shape my opinion, I guess.

Well, Cutler could end up making a liar of us all. But I think not.

As the old saying goes, we'll see . . .

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Hawgdriver
09-14-2007, 04:33 AM
If Young can figure out how consistently exploit defenders that are spying him (based on his dangerousness running the ball), he could develop into a very formidable offensive weapon. I don't see him becoming a top-tier pocket general like Manning, but he could certainly develop into a McNair or better in that aspect. All of these quarterbacks have great confidence, but I'm concerned about Leinart the most in that sense. I saw a gunshy, hesitant QB in the SF - ARI game on Monday. Because he has the label of being the most pro-ready, in addition to having the most NFL passing attempts, I think that Leinart will face his toughest criticism earlier than the other two. His confidence will be tested harshest the earliest.

It's still way too early to feel good about making comparisons, but I like Cutler in Denver better than either Leinart or Young. Although folks are quick to point out that Cutler has the benefit of playing on the 'best team', he shouldered the entire team last week when it mattered, so I don't think he deserves to be considered in a less difficult environment than either of the other two. He certainly has the benefit of a great offensive line, so I'm excited to see more of what's in store from Jay Cutler. I imagine there will be more than a few stumbles along the way, but our patience will be rewarded in the end. I'd like to think he could have a performance like last week consistently, but I think he'll take a lick or two in the coming weeks.

I have a lot of respect for the other two, and I think that all three will actually have long careers in the NFL, if they avoid injuries.

Reidman
09-14-2007, 05:37 AM
By Greg Cosell
Posted: September 13, 2007

Playing quarterback in the NFL is about dropping back, setting up quickly and delivering the ball accurately to the right receiver at the right time. There's more to it, of course, but those are the key skills that produce elite quarterback play. And Cutler best exhibits that skill set.


http://www.sportingnews.com/yourturn/viewtopic.php?t=272461
This part caught my eye right away and had me thinking about the poise that each of these 3 QB's exudes out on the field. After watching Cutler through the few games that he has started, he has never come off (to me anyway) like he was scared or intimidated or under pressure such as Leinart and Young did when they started.

He just seems and acts like he belongs there under center for the Broncos. I think you have to be pretty comfortable with your surrounding cast to be that confident in yourself.

Great article (homerism aside of course....:D )

Retired_Member_001
09-14-2007, 05:53 AM
Why, because he can run? In that case, he'll be more dangerous than
Peyton Manning?

Passing is always more dangerous than running. Were it not so, the forward
pass would not exist. Young will never be the passer Cutler is. Moreover,
Cutler is showing outstanding field presence and intelligence. And he can
run in his own right.

Young is an outstanding runner, but Cutler seems to be developing into a
field general and a playmaker . . . no, a game breaker, as he demonstrated
last week.

This isn't homer talking. I had Cutler by far above the others before anyone
outside Denver's FO had the foggiest he was destined to be a Bronco. And
my opinion was shared by several former QBs in the league . . . well, they
helped to shape my opinion, I guess.

Well, Cutler could end up making a liar of us all. But I think not.

As the old saying goes, we'll see . . .

-----

Brilliant post Topscribe.

That's the main reason I think Michael Vick is a BAD Quarterback. If you CAN run the ball as a Quarterback it is good because every so often you may be able to pick up a first down when all your targets are covered. But the rest of the time your Quarterback should be throwing the ball, that is his job. There's no point having two running backs on the field and that's what the Falcons situation WAS like. I don't think Vince Young will be the Michael Vick type but he is definitley the Michael Vick type at the moment. One day when he has developed his passing more, he will pass more and be more like Donovan McNabb or maybe Steve McNair.

Coming back to a post you made earlier you said:


But now I could bow at the feet of both teams out of pure gratefulness,
profusely thanking them for taking Leinart and Young, respectively. They got
very good prospects for QBs.

We got the star :first:.

and I think that is spot on. I see Vince Young being a Donovan McNabb type, Matt Leinart being a bust and Cutler being a legend! I was one of the ones who thought Cutler was GREAT before he came into the NFL, of course I had no idea we were considering drafting him.

topscribe
09-14-2007, 11:31 AM
Brilliant post Topscribe.

That's the main reason I think Michael Vick is a BAD Quarterback. If you CAN run the ball as a Quarterback it is good because every so often you may be able to pick up a first down when all your targets are covered. But the rest of the time your Quarterback should be throwing the ball, that is his job. There's no point having two running backs on the field and that's what the Falcons situation WAS like. I don't think Vince Young will be the Michael Vick type but he is definitley the Michael Vick type at the moment. One day when he has developed his passing more, he will pass more and be more like Donovan McNabb or maybe Steve McNair.

Coming back to a post you made earlier you said:



and I think that is spot on. I see Vince Young being a Donovan McNabb type, Matt Leinart being a bust and Cutler being a legend! I was one of the ones who thought Cutler was GREAT before he came into the NFL, of course I had no idea we were considering drafting him.
I think people are quite taken by Young's athleticism. No question, he is an
exceptional athlete, even by NFL standards.

That, however, just makes me think back to the great Johnny Unitas, who
some will still argue is the G.O.A.T. of quarterbacks. He had little to offer in
the way of overall athleticism. All he did was to turn opposing defenses into
mush. Same with Peyton Manning: How "althletic" is he? Young can likely
crawl faster than Mannng can run. Yet others will now put Manning up as
the G.O.A.T.

Cutler is athletic in his own right, but he is not in Young's league as an
overall athlete. Nonetheless, quarterbacking involves much more than just
being an "athlete," else Vick would have been all-world, wouldn't he?

Young is so athletic that I could envision him playing successfully at several
positions: safety, LB, RB, WR, TE. Cutler could not do that, not all of them,
anyway. But he doesn't have to: He's a quarterback. Young is the better
athlete; Cutler is the better quarterback.

That's the way I see it, anyway.

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