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TXBRONC
06-11-2008, 07:53 PM
This is from yesterday's TSN team report. For those who have been critical of Shanahan taking injured players like Torain, well it looks like his injury is a none issue.

One other thing for those that incessantly cry about Shanahan taking running backs in the lower thinking he sees them all as the next TD. Well they either forget or just looking for reasons to bash because Shanahan has the running backs coach in the NFL that's why took Torain.

http://www.sportingnews.com/yourturn/viewtopic.php?t=422167

Broncos Team Report
Posted: June 10, 2008
Lee Rasizer
For Sporting News

PERSONNEL ANALYSIS: Travis Henry's short-lived tenure with the Broncos is part of the overall movement toward holding players more accountable and creating an increasingly harmonic locker room. Even owner Pat Bowlen weighed in early this offseason about the bad vibe he thought permeated the team. The "cleaning out" process began with the release of two players: LB Ian Gold, whose work ethic was questioned, and WR Javon Walker, whose unhappiness over his role was a constant background issue. Henry wasn't necessarily a bad apple, but the off-field headlines he generated from matters such as a substance abuse suspension and paternity issues put him on a short leash. When he missed an OTA practice after already sitting out two weeks of on-field work with a hamstring injury, his fate was sealed. ...

The Broncos missed Ebenezer Ekuban's leadership and, just as much, his versatility after the veteran missed the 2007 season with a ruptured Achilles' tendon. Ekuban is arguably the team's best run defender as a power end. But the team has some depth at rush end, and Ekuban has the size and speed to slide inside to tackle in nickel pass-rushing situations.

SCOUTING REPORT: For the first time in his career, John Lynch is fighting tooth and nail for a starting job. Lynch, 36, has tremendous leadership qualities, but he still wants to be less of a "rah-rah" guy, and more the type who packs a punch with his play. Lynch remains a force as an in-the-box defender on run downs, and his primary role appears to be as a run stopper. The plan initially is for Denver to run an eight-man front to stifle the run, and that works in Lynch's favor. Lynch has begun camps as the starter but will be pushed by newcomers Marquand Manuel and Marlon McCree. The biggest question Lynch must answer is whether his range in coverage has declined to the point where he'll be only a situational defender. Lynch does play with tremendous instincts, which at times help counterbalance any speed limitations.

RUNNING BACKS ANALYSIS: The release of Henry has significantly opened up the competition in the backfield. Selvin Young showed big-play ability and on-field smarts as a rookie but needs to prove he can absorb the pounding between the tackles as the lead back. He has bulked up his upper body slightly and done significant sprint work to try and answer that challenge. More than likely, the Broncos will have something of a shared backfield, particularly given the addition of Michael Pittman, whose versatility as a safety valve and hard-driving runner will help. But Denver usually has a runner who's a dark horse candidate to have a breakthrough season, and this year may be no different with rookie Ryan Torain. Torain isn't a burner, but he's a physical runner who is well-suited for the one-cut zone-blocking scheme. He's coming off a foot injury but was able to participate fully in minicamps. Grade: B-minus. Pro Bowl-caliber players: None.

POSITION BATTLE: All eyes will be on the return of WR Brandon Marshall from his right forearm surgery. Barring any setbacks, the team will only have to fill the receiver spot opposite Marshall, rather than plugging two gaping holes. Keary Colbert, a free-agent pickup, brings a speed element the offense needs, but he was inconsistent catching the ball while with the Panthers and has to make sure his solid route-running ability isn't undone by drops. He'll be pushed by savvy veteran Darrell Jackson, who struggled in his one year in San Francisco but is healthy after turf toe problems. Jackson, 29, also has had inconsistent hands during his career, but at his best he's a well-rounded receiver who can work the underneath and deep routes. He is experienced enough to set up cornerbacks and has a nose for the end zone. If both of those options fail, Brandon Stokley could work his way into a starting role. But the Broncos want to reduce his snaps and keep him in his natural slot position.

topscribe
06-11-2008, 09:05 PM
As far as RBs, that seems pretty fair until someone steps up and becomes a
stud. In fact, I think it's a pretty good analysis on most counts.

The only question I have is that it was my understanding Colbert has pretty
good hands, whereas Jackson was the one with the occasional dropsies,
which, to his credit, Rasizer also pointed out.

Just another minor point: That Ekuban was the best run-stopper is not
arguable. In fact, he was the Broncos' best DL, period. And he still may be,
coming back . . . he was a beast in the latter half of the 2006 season. If his
Achilles' cooperates, he will be indispensible on the line, IMO.

I know you wanted to focus on the RBs, but I did notice those little items.

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NameUsedBefore
06-11-2008, 09:15 PM
I'd go C-, if not D+.

The B- would only stem from our o-line's ability to propel anyone into a productive runner. There's no one on the team that stands out to me. I like Selvin Young, but at the same time it's just potential at the moment. None of these guys are proven with the exception of Pittman but his time is on the other side of the hill now.

Let me put it this way: if this is what any other team had it would be an F+. If some other team had "Selvin Young, Ryan Torain, and Michael Pittman" they'd be hit with the "doom and gloom" analysis of an offensive disaster.

(BTW, I still have faith that it will work out, especially with Young who I've been high on since last year, but I'm also just trying to be a realist here)

lex
06-11-2008, 09:44 PM
Torain was a waste of a pick.

topscribe
06-11-2008, 09:50 PM
Torain was a waste of a pick.

Why?

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lex
06-11-2008, 09:56 PM
Why?

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You have to look at what he is in comparison to RBs available later in addition to what other positions could have been taken where he was. We could have had Goff and I believe Dre Moore and taken Cory Boyd later. The differense between Boyd and Torain is negligible...in fact, Cory Boyd is probably better. Torain wasnt even the best RB on his own team. Keegan Herring was. And if we're not going to get a RB who is more explosive, we might as well let a FB play at RB.

topscribe
06-11-2008, 10:01 PM
You have to look at what he is in comparison to RBs available later in addition to what other positions could have been taken where he was. We could have had Goff and I believe Dre Moore and taken Cory Boyd later. The differense between Boyd and Torain is negligible...in fact, Cory Boyd is probably better. Torain wasnt even the best RB on his own team. Keegan Herring was. And if we're not going to get a RB who is more explosive, we might as well let a FB play at RB.

Hmmm . . . you know, every time I hear something like that ("wasn't even
the best on his own team"), I think back to one Terrell Davis.

But maybe you're right about the available RBs. I don't think you are, but
maybe you're right.

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lex
06-11-2008, 10:05 PM
Hmmm . . . you know, every time I hear something like that ("wasn't even
the best on his own team"), I think back to one Terrell Davis.

But maybe you're right about the available RBs. I don't think you are, but
maybe you're right.

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Oh yeah, what can you tell me about Cory Boyd?

topscribe
06-11-2008, 10:07 PM
Oh yeah, what can you tell me about Cory Boyd?

Nice try, Lex. But I'm not into pissing contests tonight.

I already said you may be right.

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lex
06-11-2008, 10:13 PM
Nice try, Lex. But I'm not into pissing contests tonight.

I already said you may be right.

-----


You dont need to get in a pissing contest. Your acquiescence does all the talking necessary.

turftoad
06-12-2008, 09:44 AM
Torain was a waste of a pick.

When making a pick in the 5th round, it's always a crap shoot. we'll have to wait and see if it was a wasted pick or not. Time will tell.

Goff and Moore could be busts as well.

BOSSHOGG30
06-12-2008, 09:49 AM
Young: B-
Torian: C- (hard to judge a guy who hasn't played in the NFL)
Hall: C
Pittman: C
Sapp: D
Hillis: C+ (see Torian)
Aldridge: C- (see Torian)
Bell: C+


I think we average about a C grade at running back if you ask me.

BOSSHOGG30
06-12-2008, 10:05 AM
I don't know how the article gives us a B average for our runningbacks. They clearly stated that we don't have any pro bowlers, So that means we have no backs on the team with an "A" grade. This means all of our backs are "B", "C", "D", "F" type backs. Selvin Young is the only back on the team that you can even say has remotely proven himself as a "B" type back. We are stacked with late round rookies and old man Pittman, so this has to bring down that B that Young brings to the table. We are very average at best at the runningback position. "A" and "B" is very good.... we are not in that class.

lex
06-12-2008, 10:06 AM
When making a pick in the 5th round, it's always a crap shoot. we'll have to wait and see if it was a wasted pick or not. Time will tell.

Goff and Moore could be busts as well.

Comparing what players do with other teams and what a RB does in Denver is kind of tricky. Again, even if Torain does well, all that means is that he is one of many who have done well at RB in Denver...it wont justify anything because we could we could have done better.

BOSSHOGG30
06-12-2008, 10:09 AM
I'm tired of being average! I'm tired of bring in pretty good! Why aren't we bringing in greatness! We have one of the best running systems in the NFL! BRING IN REAL TALENT! A star must be born! Come on Shanny!

Wells! Moreno! Davis! 2009!

lex
06-12-2008, 10:15 AM
I'm tired of being average! I'm tired of bring in pretty good! Why aren't we bringing in greatness! We have one of the best running systems in the NFL! BRING IN REAL TALENT! A star must be born! Come on Shanny!

Wells! Moreno! Davis! 2009!

Exactly, its time to stop minimizing our strength just so the coach can look smart and so we can feel good about trying to address other areas.

Requiem / The Dagda
06-12-2008, 12:45 PM
There's probably a reason Boyd wasn't drafted by the Broncos: it'd fit into the whole character issue/trend we had this past draft.

topscribe
06-12-2008, 01:12 PM
There's probably a reason Boyd wasn't drafted by the Broncos: it'd fit into the whole character issue/trend we had this past draft.

Well, maybe also that Torain is bigger (6-1, 222 vs. 6-1, 213), about as fast
(4.52 vs. 4.51 -- I know Torain's Combine is 4.64, but with a healthy foot it
has been 4.52), and he is tougher between the tackles, which is what the
Broncos needed since they have Young's and Hall's explosiveness and they
may have expected the departure of Henry since Shanny implied that
decision was a long time coming.

When you take those factors and add the difference in character issues, it
was probably an easy decision for them.

IMHO.

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silkamilkamonico
06-12-2008, 02:09 PM
Boyd has horrible character.

Drafting him would have been a terrible idea.

shank
06-12-2008, 02:58 PM
i didn't realize boyd vs. torain overflowed into this thread. pretty interesting migration considering the absurdity and uselessness of the argument.

TXBRONC
06-13-2008, 08:05 AM
Hmmm . . . you know, every time I hear something like that ("wasn't even
the best on his own team"), I think back to one Terrell Davis.

But maybe you're right about the available RBs. I don't think you are, but
maybe you're right.

-----


I think when comes to running backs Shanahan and Turner more any of us novices.

rcsodak
06-13-2008, 09:33 AM
You dont need to get in a pissing contest. Your acquiescence does all the talking necessary.

And being an ass-hat says loads as well. :coffee:

Looks to me like somebody got owned by Top at one point in time and won't let the dead dog lie.

Don't worry...you're in a select group.

:elefant:

rcsodak
06-13-2008, 09:59 AM
Young: B-
Torian: C- (hard to judge a guy who hasn't played in the NFL)
Hall: C
Pittman: C
Sapp: D
Hillis: C+ (see Torian)
Aldridge: C- (see Torian)
Bell: C+


I think we average about a C grade at running back if you ask me.

Ok, I'm cornfused....


If it's so hard (not possible, let alone "hard") to judge a player that hasn't played a down in the NFL, then why do it? Just to make your point?

It doesn't take much brain matter to sit back and read opinions/lambastations of others and to just slap grade letter guesses next to a name.

It's obvious that you don't like the past OR present stable of rb's. So be it. But don't crap in your hand, smear epitaphs on a wall, and then try to hide your hand by sitting on it. That doesn't work. :rolleyes:

Young B-? Why? 5+ypc isn't good enough for you?
Hall C? Why? 4.9ypc isn't good enough for you? Or is he just not 'sexy' enuf?
Contributed to the team posting four touchdowns of 40-or-more yards for the first time in franchise history. His 62-yard touchdown run opened a 34-20 margin in the fourth quarter. Also returned one kickoff 26 yards against the Titans. In his first pro start, gained 98 yards and a touchdown on 26 carries (3.8 avg.) and caught two passes for 69 yards at Chi. (11/25). Opened a 10-3 lead over the Bears with a 16-yard touchdown run in the second quarter. Made a 65-yard catch and run with 48 seconds remaining in the first half to move the team into position for Elam’s 22-yard field goal. His 181 all-purpose yards is the second-highest total by a Bronco this season.
Sapp D? Won't argue with you here.
Bell? C+? I'm on the fence here. He did alright his rookie year.... In fact, after posting the 4th best rushing yards and 2nd most TD's for an UDFA, I think his trade stock would easily have outweighed his usefulness and wish he'd have been traded last year. Now, after his soph year low-lites, it'll be a fight for him to even make the team, imo.
Pittman C? Well, I think his best contribution may be leadership, to a stable full of young, promising colts. Plus, he knows how to catch the ball, find the endzone, and block. Hell, he may end up leading the team in TD's when it's all said and done.

BOSSHOGG30
06-13-2008, 10:12 AM
Ok, I'm cornfused....

Young B-? Why? 5+ypc isn't good enough for you?.

He struggled in short yard situations, he didn't score points, his yards per carry average was only that good because his number of big runs helped his many terrible runs. Plus his injury history is a huge concern.


Hall C? Why? 4.9ypc isn't good enough for you? Or is he just not 'sexy' enuf?

Limited carries, no nose for endzone, struggled in short yardage situations, size and running style concerns me. Average to below average hands, pass blocking struggles



Pittman C? Well, I think his best contribution may be leadership, to a stable full of young, promising colts. Plus, he knows how to catch the ball, find the endzone, and block. Hell, he may end up leading the team in TD's when it's all said and done.

New to system, age a huge concern especially for a power back, past with the law

rcsodak
06-13-2008, 10:30 AM
He struggled in short yard situations, he didn't score points, his yards per carry average was only that good because his number of big runs helped his many terrible runs. Plus his injury history is a huge concern. So let me get this straight. A rb that has a proportionally HIGH number of "big runs" is a bad thing? :confused:
He was a rookie! He had to sneak in behind Henry, and then take over because of injury. And show me a rb that has never had an injury in their pre-NFL days. That argument is so lame it's not worth mentioning anymore, imo.


Limited carries, no nose for endzone, struggled in short yardage situations, size and running style concerns me. Average to below average hands, pass blocking struggles.Did you not read his highlights? And some on here liken him to Jax's stud rb! Again.......first year! And if nothing else, I'd say he did plenty to earn a spot on the team to see if he has improved. Otherwise, it'd be like taking the horse that finished 3rd in the Preakness, and putting it out to pasture instead of entering it in the Belmont, just because it didn't win. Imho.


New to system, age a huge concern especially for a power back, past with the lawWell...aren't they ALL "New to system"? As for his age, how many carries did he have last year? It would seem he has plenty of mileage left...prolly more than TD did in his final year. And grading a player low just because he has a "past with the law" is absurd. He's talked about it openly...it wasn't just yesterday...and HE'S STILL MARRIED TO THE SAME WOMAN!!!!! *sorry for yelling* Like I said earlier...Shanny will need Somebody with an acumen for the endzone, and the ability to lead the youngens...... I could think of worse players.

WARHORSE
06-13-2008, 10:35 AM
I'm tired of being average! I'm tired of bring in pretty good! Why aren't we bringing in greatness! We have one of the best running systems in the NFL! BRING IN REAL TALENT! A star must be born! Come on Shanny!

Wells! Moreno! Davis! 2009!


We did. His name is Ryan Clady.

WARHORSE
06-13-2008, 10:38 AM
Torain was a waste of a pick.




Nah.:coffee:

lex
06-13-2008, 11:00 AM
And being an ass-hat says loads as well. :coffee:

Looks to me like somebody got owned by Top at one point in time and won't let the dead dog lie.

Don't worry...you're in a select group.

:elefant:

What are you talking about..or do you even know? Let me guess. This is a matter of me saying something you didnt like. Thats unfortunate.

BOSSHOGG30
06-13-2008, 11:09 AM
So let me get this straight. A rb that has a proportionally HIGH number of "big runs" is a bad thing? :confused:
He was a rookie! He had to sneak in behind Henry, and then take over because of injury. And show me a rb that has never had an injury in their pre-NFL days. That argument is so lame it's not worth mentioning anymore, imo.

Did you not read his highlights? And some on here liken him to Jax's stud rb! Again.......first year! And if nothing else, I'd say he did plenty to earn a spot on the team to see if he has improved. Otherwise, it'd be like taking the horse that finished 3rd in the Preakness, and putting it out to pasture instead of entering it in the Belmont, just because it didn't win. Imho.

Well...aren't they ALL "New to system"? As for his age, how many carries did he have last year? It would seem he has plenty of mileage left...prolly more than TD did in his final year. And grading a player low just because he has a "past with the law" is absurd. He's talked about it openly...it wasn't just yesterday...and HE'S STILL MARRIED TO THE SAME WOMAN!!!!! *sorry for yelling* Like I said earlier...Shanny will need Somebody with an acumen for the endzone, and the ability to lead the youngens...... I could think of worse players.

Your right... we are stacked with runningback talent... my bad... don't know what I was thinking. I just wouldn't give an "A" or "B" rating to unproven players with so many questions retaining to their running abilities.

I guess everyones grading scale would be different

Mine personally goes something like this:

"A" go to elite backs like L.T., Larry Johnson, Frank Gore, Westbrook, Adrian Peters(vikings) Etc....
"B" go to very good backs like Maroney, Brandon Jacobs, Fred Taylor, Chester Taylor and elite rookie talent like Stewart, McFadden, and Mendenhall Etc.. (Selvin Young)
"C" go to role players and unproven players, including rookies, with potential. (Bradshaw, Dayne, Adrian Peterson(bears), etc...etc. (Hall, Torian, Pittman)

BOSSHOGG30
06-13-2008, 11:26 AM
JMO.......

"A" Backs
LaDainian Tomlinson
Adrian Peterson
Steven Jackson
Frank Gore
Larry Johnson
Joseph Addai
Willie Parker
Brian Westbrook

"B" Backs (some of these guys are very close to be "A" backs)
Laurence Maroney
Shaun Alexander
Darren McFadden
Justin Fargas
Rudi Johnson
Jonathan Stewart
Clinton Portis (when healthy can be an "A")
Ronnie Brown (when healthy can be an "A")
Maurice Jones-Drew
Rashard Mendenhall
Reggie Bush
Thomas Jones
Willis McGahee (when healthy can be an "A")
Cedric Benson
Edgerrin James
Deuce McAllister (when healthy can be an "A")
Marion Barber
Carnell Williams
Selvin Young
Tatum Bell
Brandon Jacobs
Ahman Green
Marshawn Lynch
Jerious Norwood
Michael Turner
DeAngelo Williams
Jamal Lewis
Julius Jones
Chester Taylor
Ladell Betts
Fred Taylor
Kevin Jones (when healthy can be a strong "B" back)
Warrick Dunn
Lendale White
Matt Forte

"C" backs
Brandon Jackson
Adrian Peterson
Vernand Morency
Michael Bush
Andre Hall
Mike Bell
Reuben Droughns
Leon Washington (potential to be a "B" back)
Ryan Torain (potential to be a "B" back)
Michael Pittman
Tony Hunt (potential to be a "B" back)
Mike Anderson
Kevin Faulk
LaMont Jordan (when healthy can be a "B" back)

So, i'm sure everyone's opinion would be different, but just by me placing our guys through out this chart, I don't see how we average a "B"

I think we average around "C"

DenBronx
06-13-2008, 11:41 AM
did you forget travis henry on that list for a reason?


i think youngs going to get a strong chance to be the #1 but i cant wait to see what these guys do in camp. i think with henry out of the picture its going to make these guys that much hungrier.

we do have a few new linemen though so it might take a little time to get a good running attack going. hopefully jay is a passing demon this year, id really like to see marshall back up his statement of catching 100 balls again. this will only help our running game....that and a good blocking fullback.

BOSSHOGG30
06-13-2008, 11:47 AM
did you forget travis henry on that list for a reason?


i think youngs going to get a strong chance to be the #1 but i cant wait to see what these guys do in camp. i think with henry out of the picture its going to make these guys that much hungrier.

we do have a few new linemen though so it might take a little time to get a good running attack going. hopefully jay is a passing demon this year, id really like to see marshall back up his statement of catching 100 balls again. this will only help our running game....that and a good blocking fullback.

I'm really excited to see what Hillis brings to the table... I was high on him at the Fullback position before the draft and I think he was a steal in the 7th round. Thank you Jake Plummer!

BOSSHOGG30
06-13-2008, 01:25 PM
Another thing to consider these days with all the late round talent talk is the overall talent of not only running back but every single position has significantly expanded. As football becomes more popular through out the world more athletes are born. As football matures through out the world so does the knowledge and teachings to play the game at a higher level. The athletes we see today are unbelievable. You have guys running 4.5 – 4.6 forties at 270 lbs. We see 300 plus pounders running sub 5.0 all the time. It was once rare to see linemen run sub 5.0 and this is way before the average linemen was 300 plus pounds. Don’t be shocked when you start seeing the NFL add another round or two because the talent is just growing as the years pass by.

turftoad
06-13-2008, 01:34 PM
Another thing to consider these days with all the late round talent talk is the overall talent of not only running back but every single position has significantly expanded. As football becomes more popular through out the world more athletes are born. As football matures through out the world so does the knowledge and teachings to play the game at a higher level. The athletes we see today are unbelievable. You have guys running 4.5 – 4.6 forties at 270 lbs. We see 300 plus pounders running sub 5.0 all the time. It was once rare to see linemen run sub 5.0 and this is way before the average linemen was 300 plus pounds. Don’t be shocked when you start seeing the NFL add another round or two because the talent is just growing as the years pass by.

I don't think that will happen. It used to be 12 rounds. Players actually like not being drafted in the later rounds. If they aren't drafted and become FA's they have a choice where they want to go to make a team.

For example. If a RB is a 7th round pick and goes to a RB heavy team, the chances are slim to none that he makes the team. If the same guy doesn't get drafted and is a FA he can go to a team that isn't RB heavy and have a better opportunity to make said team.

TXBRONC
06-13-2008, 01:41 PM
He struggled in short yard situations, he didn't score points, his yards per carry average was only that good because his number of big runs helped his many terrible runs. Plus his injury history is a huge concern.


Limited carries, no nose for endzone, struggled in short yardage situations, size and running style concerns me. Average to below average hands, pass blocking struggles.




New to system, age a huge concern especially for a power back, past with the law

Which one of our running backs didn't struggle in short yardage situations? True Young didn't score a lot of touchdowns, but again which one of our running backs did?

What do you mean by bad runs? He wasn't caught for big losses that I can remember and I don't recall his making mistakes in finding the cut back lane.

I would also argue his yards per carry isn't the only thing he had going for him. He was 4th on the team in receptions with 35. Apparently Shanahan thought enough of him to use him in the passing game and Jay was comfortable enough to actually throw the ball to him.

topscribe
06-13-2008, 01:56 PM
Which one of our running backs didn't struggle in short yardage situations? True Young didn't score a lot of touchdowns, but again which one of our running backs did?

What do you mean by bad runs? He wasn't caught for big losses that I can remember and I don't recall his making mistakes in finding the cut back lane.

I would also argue his yards per carry isn't the only thing he had going for him. He was 4th on the team in receptions with 35. Apparently Shanahan thought enough of him to use him in the passing game and Jay was comfortable enough to actually throw the ball to him.

Good for you. I can't believe Young's big runs are being held against him. :confused:
As you said, the Broncos had trouble with short yardage in general. That
can be attributed to the offensive offensive line. (No, that wasn't a typo;
that is exactly how I saw that line, if you get my drift.) I don't care if your
name is Jim Brown: You need holes to run through, or you are not going
anywhere.

I also cannot believe Selvin is being thrown under the bus by certain people
here. He has come in after working his butt off this offseason to become
bigger, stronger, and harder. Moreover, center, LT, and RT will be upgraded.
The Broncos have also upgraded at FB, and they still have Graham.

We will see a vast improvement in the short yardage game, and that includes
Young. That guy's quickness to the hole reminds me of Portis. If there is a
hole, that is.

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Lonestar
06-13-2008, 02:04 PM
Good for you. I can't believe Young's big runs are being held against him. :confused:
As you said, the Broncos had trouble with short yardage in general. That
can be attributed to the offensive offensive line. (No, that wasn't a typo;
that is exactly how I saw that line, if you get my drift.) I don't care if your
name is Jim Brown: You need holes to run through, or you are not going
anywhere.

I also cannot believe Selvin is being thrown under the bus by certain people
here. He has come in after working his butt off this offseason to become
bigger, stronger, and harder. Moreover, center, LT, and RT will be upgraded.
The Broncos have also upgraded at FB, and they still have Graham.

We will see a vast improvement in the short yardage game, and that includes
Young. That guy's quickness to the hole reminds me of Portis. If there is a
hole, that is.

-----

lets hope it does not take most of the year for everyone to learn the new guys name on either side of them on this bigger OLINE.


I think by mid year 2009 this could be a special OLINE IF clady is what everyone thinks he is..

Remember folks lots of new bodies in different holes with different roles than last year.. Should all be upgrades, just do not expect to much to soon, most of you are already looking at Super bowl reservations and this team is no where near that as we speak..

shank
06-13-2008, 02:14 PM
lets hope it does not take most of the year for everyone to learn the new guys name on either side of them on this bigger OLINE.


I think by mid year 2009 this could be a special OLINE IF clady is what everyone thinks he is..

Remember folks lots of new bodies in different holes with different roles than last year.. Should all be upgrades, just do not expect to much to soon, most of you are already looking at Super bowl reservations and this team is no where near that as we speak..

i don't think it will take THAT long for the line to gel. the only real new guy to the system is clady, and he came from a zone blocking scheme in college, so the transition should be somewhat smooth for him as far as the scheme goes (if he can read all the big words :tsk:) everyone else has experience with the system, and a full training camp at new positions, or getting back into the grove should go a long way towards developing chemistry. i look for a bumpy start, but i think by mid season, we won't be seeing errors based on miscommunication and stuff like that (knocks on wood).

i agree with you that we have a very good base of youth, and i think this line will truly be special again within a couple years.

topscribe
06-13-2008, 02:15 PM
lets hope it does not take most of the year for everyone to learn the new guys name on either side of them on this bigger OLINE.


I think by mid year 2009 this could be a special OLINE IF clady is what everyone thinks he is..

Remember folks lots of new bodies in different holes with different roles than last year.. Should all be upgrades, just do not expect to much to soon, most of you are already looking at Super bowl reservations and this team is no where near that as we speak..

Oh, I don't think it will take that long. They're not complete strangers there.
Nalen is the rock in the middle.

Holland now has a year under his belt and is plenty experienced.

If Hamilton is recovered, he has played for a long time next to Nalen. If he
hasn't, then Kuper is experienced at LG, and he is good there.

Just as is Clady, Ryan is known for his footwork and should do well at RT. If
not, then Pears should be better with a year's experience at that position.

Of course, Clady is a rookie, but he has reportedly wowed teammates with
his quickness and power.

That is a good group coming together. By the time the season starts, they
will have several games under their belts. I believe by the middle of this
season that will be a strength on the team.

Meanwhile, I think the Broncos are blessed with Selvin, and now Pittman,
the former who can make something out of nothing (which he may find
occasionally at the first of the season), and the latter who can carve
something out of human bodies with sheer power.

IMHO.

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Lonestar
06-13-2008, 02:42 PM
Oh, I don't think it will take that long. They're not complete strangers there.
Nalen is the rock in the middle.

Holland now has a year under his belt and is plenty experienced.

If Hamilton is recovered, he has played for a long time next to Nalen. If he
hasn't, then Kuper is experienced at LG, and he is good there.

Just as is Clady, Ryan is known for his footwork and should do well at RT. If
not, then Pears should be better with a year's experience at that position.

Of course, Clady is a rookie, but he has reportedly wowed teammates with
his quickness and power.

That is a good group coming together. By the time the season starts, they
will have several games under their belts. I believe by the middle of this
season that will be a strength on the team.

Meanwhile, I think the Broncos are blessed with Selvin, and now Pittman,
the former who can make something out of nothing (which he may find
occasionally at the first of the season), and the latter who can carve
something out of human bodies with sheer power.

IMHO.

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I don not think TC will see this OLINE intact for more than part of each PS game.. Nalen is getting long in the tooth and Hamilton well is one head slap away from green acres..

I used to play ORG and the more plays you get with the guy next to you the better to anticipate his moves in odd situations..

One of the reasons KC was so strong for so many years was their uber experienced OLINE..

Playing in DEN there is even more issues because it is not a power OLINE but the finesse of ZBS..

That's why I think it will take longer than the beginning of the season.. It could gel faster but I don not hold clady in the same light as most do.. I think he will take a year or two to no longer be a project and perhaps longer to get mikeys play book down..

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06-13-2008, 03:21 PM
I don not think TC will see this OLINE intact for more than part of each PS game.. Nalen is getting long in the tooth and Hamilton well is one head slap away from green acres..

I used to play ORG and the more plays you get with the guy next to you the better to anticipate his moves in odd situations..

One of the reasons KC was so strong for so many years was their uber experienced OLINE..

Playing in DEN there is even more issues because it is not a power OLINE but the finesse of ZBS..

That's why I think it will take longer than the beginning of the season.. It could gel faster but I don not hold clady in the same light as most do.. I think he will take a year or two to no longer be a project and perhaps longer to get mikeys play book down..

You may very well be right.

Let's hope I am. http://i258.photobucket.com/albums/hh256/AZDynamics/Smilies/thdrink.gif

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TXBRONC
06-13-2008, 03:51 PM
Good for you. I can't believe Young's big runs are being held against him. :confused:
As you said, the Broncos had trouble with short yardage in general. That
can be attributed to the offensive offensive line. (No, that wasn't a typo;
that is exactly how I saw that line, if you get my drift.) I don't care if your
name is Jim Brown: You need holes to run through, or you are not going
anywhere.

I also cannot believe Selvin is being thrown under the bus by certain people
here. He has come in after working his butt off this offseason to become
bigger, stronger, and harder. Moreover, center, LT, and RT will be upgraded.
The Broncos have also upgraded at FB, and they still have Graham.

We will see a vast improvement in the short yardage game, and that includes
Young. That guy's quickness to the hole reminds me of Portis. If there is a
hole, that is.

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I don't know Selvin will be an every down back but I don't see any reason to basically cast him off as refuse. Even if Selvin isn't an every down back he's already developing into a solid contributor.

I have to admit I'm very intrigued with Torain and I'm looking forward to seeing just how he fits in this offense but if Selvin proves to be the better running back he should start it's simple as that in my opinion.

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06-13-2008, 03:59 PM
I don't know Selvin will be an every down back but I don't see any reason to basically cast him off as refuse. Even if Selvin isn't an every down back he's already developing into a solid contributor.

I have to admit I'm very intrigued with Torain and I'm looking forward to seeing just how he fits in this offense but if Selvin proves to be the better running back he should start it's simple as that in my opinion.

I was listening to the Sports Guru, and he made a very good point. He is high
on Selvin (although he said he wished Selvin would can the 2,000-yard talk),
and said that the Broncos may limit him to 15 carries or so to protect him
because he is so explosive that they want to keep him around for 16 games.
Kinda makes sense, if that would be the case, doesn't it?

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TXBRONC
06-13-2008, 04:01 PM
i don't think it will take THAT long for the line to gel. the only real new guy to the system is clady, and he came from a zone blocking scheme in college, so the transition should be somewhat smooth for him as far as the scheme goes (if he can read all the big words :tsk:) everyone else has experience with the system, and a full training camp at new positions, or getting back into the grove should go a long way towards developing chemistry. i look for a bumpy start, but i think by mid season, we won't be seeing errors based on miscommunication and stuff like that (knocks on wood).

i agree with you that we have a very good base of youth, and i think this line will truly be special again within a couple years.

It's not like theses guys don't know each other at all. While Nalen missed a good portion of last season he was still the starting center from OTAs through whatever game he got hurt in. The only truly new person to the line will be Clady everyone else will be familiar with each other. Of course that's assuming that Kuper or Pears wins the right tackle position.

And quite honestly I think the team is better served by having Hamilton at left guard than Kuper. Not because Kuper is less talented than Hamilton but because Hamilton is more experienced.