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BOSSHOGG30
06-06-2008, 12:19 PM
Nate Webster has been seeing first-team reps at middle linebacker during Broncos Organized Team Activities.

Niko Koutouvides isn't going to be handed to the starting job. Koutouvides is limited athletically and Webster has more experience in the defense. This will be a training camp competition to keep track of in IDP leagues.
Source: Colorado Spring Gazette

http://www2.gazette.com/broncos/display.php?id=1333305

claymore
06-06-2008, 12:23 PM
Nate Webster has been seeing first-team reps at middle linebacker during Broncos Organized Team Activities.

Niko Koutouvides isn't going to be handed to the starting job. Koutouvides is limited athletically and Webster has more experience in the defense. This will be a training camp competition to keep track of in IDP leagues.
Source: Colorado Spring Gazette

http://www2.gazette.com/broncos/display.php?id=1333305

There was a blurb about it in the post this morning as well. It said they were going to split time till someone emerges as the clear cut starter.

Lonestar
06-06-2008, 12:36 PM
if Niko can't beat out Webster it might be a very long season.. time to tally up another lose or two to my original estimate..

underrated29
06-06-2008, 12:39 PM
It better be kootie- otherwise everything we heard about him was all bull, and all hype. If he cant beat out webster- who isnt the worst mlb the nfl has seen, but certainly near the bottom half.

If webby does win the job it just further goes to show you who are first rd pick will be next year. Check the sig if you want my guess.

BOSSHOGG30
06-06-2008, 12:39 PM
Webster isn't bad, but doesn't say much for Kootie.....wonder how far Larsen is out of the mix?

BeefStew25
06-06-2008, 12:43 PM
I wonder if Webster is going to lose his helmet any this season.

Lonestar
06-06-2008, 12:45 PM
I wonder if Webster is going to lose his helmet any this season.

big helmet or little helmet?

BOSSHOGG30
06-06-2008, 12:53 PM
http://i183.photobucket.com/albums/x146/nfl_mitchell/Cleveland%20Browns/fullj.getty76184565sd008_cleveland_bro.jpg

I still haven't forgotten about this mistackle versus WR big Joe last season

Drill-N-Fill
06-06-2008, 01:30 PM
I wouldn't be totally surprised if Larsen gets the gig around week 9 or so. The GM(s) are really high on the kid.

dogfish
06-06-2008, 01:34 PM
if webster is our starting MIKE, we could be in for another loooong season of shoddy run defense. . . . if niko isn't good enough to beat webster out, i'd rather they left dj in the middle and played winborn at WILL. . .


hopefully, this is just more TC politics where the vet gets the nod initially-- the thought of webster and engelburglar as starters sets my teeth on edge!

Fan in Exile
06-06-2008, 01:35 PM
if Niko can't beat out Webster it might be a very long season.. time to tally up another lose or two to my original estimate..

So what does that make your estimate, 0-20? :D

Lonestar
06-06-2008, 01:54 PM
So what does that make your estimate, 0-20? :D

was thinking 7-19 pre draft.. :rolleyes:

DenBronx
06-06-2008, 02:02 PM
well, at least next year is going to have a slew of linebackers in the draft.

Ziggy
06-06-2008, 02:06 PM
Nothing unexpected here. They'll split time until the preseason games start, then Kootie will be the exclusive first team MLB. If anyone beats him out, I think it may be Larsen. Larsen didn't get a look on defense the first 2 weeks. He played FB.

topscribe
06-06-2008, 02:16 PM
I think Webster is undeserving if much of the low opinion of him. At SAM, he
was playing out of position last year. And whether he played in the middle or
outside, he was playing in an obviously ineffective system where everybody
often seemed out of position.

I'm willing to give him a chance in his natural position in a better scheme from
the start. Let's see what he can do.

The MLB in this defense doesn't have to be a superstar, anyway, the way it
seems to be shaping up. With D.J. and Boss on either side and Robertson and
those DEs in front of him, all he has to be is competent and steady.
(That goes for either Webster or Koutouvides.)

Let's see whether he can do it . . .

-----

Lonestar
06-06-2008, 02:19 PM
Nothing unexpected here. They'll split time until the preseason games start, then Kootie will be the exclusive first team MLB. If anyone beats him out, I think it may be Larsen. Larsen didn't get a look on defense the first 2 weeks. He played FB.

Makes sense to me draft a FB do not play him.

Draft a LB play him at FB..

Mikey does like to do projects doesn't he..

Lonestar
06-06-2008, 02:21 PM
I think Webster is undeserving if much of the low opinion of him. At SAM, he
was playing out of position last year. And whether he played in the middle or
outside, he was playing in an obviously ineffective system where everybody
often seemed out of position.

I'm willing to give him a chance in his natural position in a better scheme from
the start. Let's see what he can do.

The MLB in this defense doesn't have to be a superstar, anyway, the way it
seems to be shaping up. With D.J. and Boss on either side and Robertson and
those DEs in front of him, all he has to be is competent and steady.
(That goes for either Webster or Koutouvides.)

Let's see whether he can do it . . .

-----

me thinks that your giving way to much credit for everyone BUT DJ and perhaps Robertson although he has yet to play a down for us..

dogfish
06-06-2008, 02:24 PM
I think Webster is undeserving if much of the low opinion of him. At SAM, he
was playing out of position last year. And whether he played in the middle or
outside, he was playing in an obviously ineffective system where everybody
often seemed out of position.

I'm willing to give him a chance in his natural position in a better scheme from
the start. Let's see what he can do.

The MLB in this defense doesn't have to be a superstar, anyway, the way it
seems to be shaping up. With D.J. and Boss on either side and Robertson and
those DEs in front of him, all he has to be is competent and steady.
(That goes for either Webster or Koutouvides.)

Let's see whether he can do it . . .

-----


FWIW, webster was also terrible in the last game of '06, when he started at MIKE-- the game where frank gore absolutely crammed the ball down our throats and knocked us out of the playoffs. . . . :tsk:

topscribe
06-06-2008, 02:36 PM
me thinks that your giving way to much credit for everyone BUT DJ and perhaps Robertson although he has yet to play a down for us..

That may be true. But Robertson is not an untested rookie, and D.J. looked
like a future Pro Bowler at WILL in his rookie year. It isn't like we haven't ever
seen these guys in action as pros.

Nonetheless, I could be all wrong about it. But what I see are better players
than last year, playing in position, in a better defensive scheme more suited
to the personnel.

I look back at 2005, when the Broncos were in the top five in most defensive
stats and top ten in the others, and I look at that defensive line, and it was
miserable, with the exception of Hayward. The differences were the LBs and
Coyer (as opposed to Bates).

Well, Robertson, Ekuban, Thomas, and Dumervil are better than anybody
the Broncos had on that line (again, except Hayward). At LB, D.J. is better
than Gold at WILL, and Boss is better than D.J. at SAM. So the major
concern now is MLB. So if Webster or Koutouvides can be competent in the
middle, it is my humble opinion that the Broncos will be back in the top ten
on defense . . . maybe the top five after a jelling period.

-----

topscribe
06-06-2008, 02:40 PM
FWIW, webster was also terrible in the last game of '06, when he started at MIKE-- the game where frank gore absolutely crammed the ball down our throats and knocked us out of the playoffs. . . . :tsk:

Yes, I remember that game. But that was one game. And, if my memory
serves me correctly, Webster was shoved in there without much preparation.
And when you face a Frank Gore, you had better be prepared.

Not to throw that one game aside, but let's see if it was an anamoly. Everyone
has a bad game here and there.

-----

dogfish
06-06-2008, 02:46 PM
Yes, I remember that game. But that was one game. And, if my memory
serves me correctly, Webster was shoved in there without much preparation.
And when you face a Frank Gore, you had better be prepared.

Not to throw that one game aside, but let's see if it was an anamoly. Everyone
has a bad game here and there.

-----


well, i agree completely with your last statement-- but IMO, he had a lot of bad games last year as well, which to me makes it look like that last game in '06 was more trend than fluke. . . and he was the primary backup at middle linebacker all year, and he knew that al wilson had been dinged up-- he may not have had the advantage of a lot of first-team reps in practice, but there's no excuse to not be prepared in this league. . . .

bottom line, we obviously have to wait and see-- but i saw webster miss way too many tackles last year to feel at all comfortable if he ends up starting for us this year. . . . JMO. . . .

BOSSHOGG30
06-06-2008, 02:56 PM
The Bengals didn't want Webster... last time I checked they had pretty bad defensive problems. Maybe it was more because of injury and not really the player, but it still makes me worry.

Lonestar
06-06-2008, 03:00 PM
That may be true. But Robertson is not an untested rookie, and D.J. looked
like a future Pro Bowler at WILL in his rookie year. It isn't like we haven't ever
seen these guys in action as pros.

Nonetheless, I could be all wrong about it. But what I see are better players
than last year, playing in position, in a better defensive scheme more suited
to the personnel.

I look back at 2005, when the Broncos were in the top five in most defensive
stats and top ten in the others, and I look at that defensive line, and it was
miserable, with the exception of Hayward. The differences were the LBs and
Coyer (as opposed to Bates).

Well, Robertson, Ekuban, Thomas, and Dumervil are better than anybody
the Broncos had on that line (again, except Hayward). At LB, D.J. is better
than Gold at WILL, and Boss is better than D.J. at SAM. So the major
concern now is MLB. So if Webster or Koutouvides can be competent in the
middle, it is my humble opinion that the Broncos will be back in the top ten
on defense . . . maybe the top five after a jelling period.

-----

on paper we look pretty good on the DLINE lets hope they get to know each others name by the start of the season, now working with each other may take a tad longer..

I do not think that boss is as good as DJ was at SAM but that is JMO..

coyer played a LB doimintante style Bates a DLINE style and now we are going to more of a BD dominant style or at least that is slicks strong point.

One wonders what we are actually gonna wind up with..

MHCBill
06-06-2008, 03:01 PM
Nate Webster will not be our starting MLB this year week one unless there are some major injuries.

Lonestar
06-06-2008, 03:02 PM
Nate Webster will not be our starting MLB this year week one unless there are some major injuries.

lets all pray that you are correct and there are no injuries regardless..

Requiem / The Dagda
06-06-2008, 03:04 PM
Webster has sucked balls in Denver during his tenure here. He absolutely deserves the crap he's gotten.

topscribe
06-06-2008, 03:04 PM
Nate Webster will not be our starting MLB this year week one unless there are some major injuries.

I'll be sure to relay that to the coaches for you . . . :2thumbs:

-----

MHCBill
06-06-2008, 03:06 PM
I'll be sure to relay that to the coaches for you . . . :2thumbs:

-----Thank you.

underrated29
06-06-2008, 03:08 PM
Thats true i forgot about that point.

We have moss starting on the second team d. With EMGELBERGER on first team. Lets not read too much into this, the vets and guys who have played in our system before are going to get first crack.

Kootie will outplay nate, i am sure of it. Moss might not do that as quickly but by game 6 i think he will have worked his way into starting.

Dean
06-06-2008, 03:42 PM
I am not very high on Webster; he is a poor tackler. However, Shanahan follows a plan of open competition and the winner starts. So if Webstaer should be a starter it is because he is the best that we can put on the field- sad as that might be.:D

Slick
06-06-2008, 03:51 PM
In my own little GM world, I'd have brought in Jeremiah Trotter to compete with Webster and Niko. He may be old, but he is excellent against the run.

I'm optimistic about Boss and DJ. Hopefully Robertson can keep guards and centers off whomever ends up starting at MLB.

topscribe
06-06-2008, 03:55 PM
I am not very high on Webster; he is a poor tackler. However, Shanahan follows a plan of open competition and the winner starts. So if Webstaer should be a starter it is because he is the best that we can put on the field- sad as that might be.:D

Well, I hope the Broncos start one better than he, also. I'm not saying he is
another Ray Lewis. But most of the players on defense never played up to
their capabilites, mostly because they were in a poor defensive scheme,
and some were just playing out of position.

I believe he may be a quality backup. But I do hope Koutouvides is better, and
so do the coaches, I'm sure.

-----

TXBRONC
06-06-2008, 09:00 PM
I wouldn't put much stock in Webster getting reps with the first team.

honz
06-06-2008, 09:03 PM
I wouldn't put much stock in Webster getting reps with the first team.
I agree. It is still quite early...

TXBRONC
06-06-2008, 09:29 PM
FWIW, webster was also terrible in the last game of '06, when he started at MIKE-- the game where frank gore absolutely crammed the ball down our throats and knocked us out of the playoffs. . . . :tsk:

Agreed. I'm not impressed with Webster in the least as a starter.

Lonestar
06-06-2008, 09:30 PM
Agreed. I'm not impressed with Webster in the least as a starter.



Your correct that makes all of us..

CrazyHorse
06-07-2008, 05:21 PM
In my own little GM world, I'd have brought in Jeremiah Trotter to compete with Webster and Niko. He may be old, but he is excellent against the run.

I'm optimistic about Boss and DJ. Hopefully Robertson can keep guards and centers off whomever ends up starting at MLB.

I don't know about but I wouldn't mind DJ Williams at Will, Jeremiah Trotter at Mike, and Takeo Spikes at Sam. Nothing wrong with 2 Probowl Veterans that are proven, at least until we can draft talent at the LB position.

DenBronx
06-07-2008, 05:37 PM
the thought of having webster be our mlb makes me want to vomit. we might as well brace ourselves for another 7-9 season if thats the case.

Slick
06-07-2008, 05:43 PM
I don't know about but I wouldn't mind DJ Williams at Will, Jeremiah Trotter at Mike, and Takeo Spikes at Sam. Nothing wrong with 2 Probowl Veterans that are proven, at least until we can draft talent at the LB position.

I couldn't argue with that. Trotter is still a FA last time I checked, not sure about Spikes. Maybe Slowik is happy with Nate, Niko or in a pinch the rookie from Arizona, his name escapes me at the moment.

CrazyHorse
06-07-2008, 05:56 PM
I couldn't argue with that. Trotter is still a FA last time I checked, not sure about Spikes. Maybe Slowik is happy with Nate, Niko or in a pinch the rookie from Arizona, his name escapes me at the moment.

I believe they both are free agents now however they would command a decent amount of money and are on the downside of their careers. Spikes is coming of a rotary cuff injury and Trotter was released by Tampa. Trotter against the run is the better fit in my opinion.

dogfish
06-07-2008, 06:00 PM
i'm so glad we're not bringing in any more washed up old guys this year. . . let the kids sink or swim. . .

elsid13
06-07-2008, 06:05 PM
It OTAs, you shouldn't read to much who starting and who is doing good. In end I expect Larson to be in the mix with Niko

Slick
06-07-2008, 06:09 PM
i'm so glad we're not bringing in any more washed up old guys this year. . . let the kids sink or swim. . .

That's probably what should be done. Take our lumps if we have to and get out from all this dead cap money at the same time.

Larson is the rookie...thanks elsid.

dogfish
06-07-2008, 06:24 PM
That's probably what should be done. Take our lumps if we have to and get out from all this dead cap money at the same time.

Larson is the rookie...thanks elsid.



that's the way i see it. . . maybe guys like spikes and trotter have more left in the tank than sam adams and simeon rice, but i'm not convinced. . . i'd rather save any cap space that we can for signing guys like dj, marshall, cutler, kuper and doom to extensions in the next few years. . . build around young guys who'll be here for the long haul, instead of bringing in more over-priced rentals. . . JMO. . . .

Lonestar
06-07-2008, 06:31 PM
that's the way i see it. . . maybe guys like spikes and trotter have more left in the tank than sam adams and simeon rice, but i'm not convinced. . . i'd rather save any cap space that we can for signing guys like dj, marshall, cutler, kuper and doom to extensions in the next few years. . . build around young guys who'll be here for the long haul, instead of bringing in more over-priced rentals. . . JMO. . . .

We are in agreement here, but many want to win any any cost..

That is what got us to 7-9 last year.. not paying attention on draft day from 2000-05 and then having plug those gapping holes with washed up 1-2 year left FA's which then left us with lots of dead cap money..

TXBRONC
06-07-2008, 08:03 PM
that's the way i see it. . . maybe guys like spikes and trotter have more left in the tank than sam adams and simeon rice, but i'm not convinced. . . i'd rather save any cap space that we can for signing guys like dj, marshall, cutler, kuper and doom to extensions in the next few years. . . build around young guys who'll be here for the long haul, instead of bringing in more over-priced rentals. . . JMO. . . .

Agreed I would rather invest in guys like DJ, Marshall, Cutler, Kuper and Dumervil than sink money high priced veterans like Trotter and Spikes.

CrazyHorse
06-07-2008, 09:30 PM
Agreed I would rather invest in guys like DJ, Marshall, Cutler, Kuper and Dumervil than sink money high priced veterans like Trotter and Spikes.

I agree, but only 1 of those is playing LB. We have no idea who will be starting at MLB, however at 30 years old Webster isn't the long term answer. Boss Bailey isn't a sure bet either as he hasn't started a full season since his rookie year.

dogfish
06-07-2008, 09:35 PM
I agree, but only 1 of those is playing LB. We have no idea who will be starting at MLB, however at 30 years old Webster isn't the long term answer. Boss Bailey isn't a sure bet either as he hasn't started a full season since his rookie year.

i think that if niko doesn't prove to be a quality starter, it's almost a foregone conclusion that we'll be spending a fairly high pick on a MIKE LB next year. . . luckily, if we're in need it looks like it's going to be a quality class. . . .

TXBRONC
06-07-2008, 09:42 PM
I agree, but only 1 of those is playing LB. We have no idea who will be starting at MLB, however at 30 years old Webster isn't the long term answer. Boss Bailey isn't a sure bet either as he hasn't started a full season since his rookie year.

High priced veterans with very small windows for playing are not the answer either. We have Koutouvides and Larsen both of whom are young, not very expensive and are natural Mike linebackers. I don't think they should be written off before they have a chance to prove themselves.

TXBRONC
06-07-2008, 09:43 PM
i think that if niko doesn't prove to be a quality starter, it's almost a foregone conclusion that we'll be spending a fairly high pick on a MIKE LB next year. . . luckily, if we're in need it looks like it's going to be a quality class. . . .

Larsen is another option as well.

Lonestar
06-07-2008, 09:47 PM
i think that if niko doesn't prove to be a quality starter, it's almost a foregone conclusion that we'll be spending a fairly high pick on a MIKE LB next year. . . luckily, if we're in need it looks like it's going to be a quality class. . . .

Or perhaps finding a proven YOUNG Mike in Free agency..

If MLB is the only weak spot on this team at the end of the year I'll be surprised..

TXBRONC
06-07-2008, 10:20 PM
Or perhaps finding a proven YOUNG Mike in Free agency..

If MLB is the only weak spot on this team at the end of the year I'll be surprised..

Who? If they're like the guy that Niko was backing up in Seattle, they are as hard to find on the open market as defensive tackles.

Lonestar
06-07-2008, 10:34 PM
Who? If they're like the guy that Niko was backing up in Seattle, they are as hard to find on the open market as defensive tackles.


There are always MLB that come out into FA they do not have to be ray lewis to fix the hole we have had since Al left .. If they are surrounded by quality DLine players the other two LB and the DB's..

We do not need an All Pro at every position for that matter can't afford them..

I was answering a what if Niko can't deal with it, Dogfish said draft a young buck and I said FA was an alternative..

Now this is all speculation that one of the three or counting DJ four LB can't play the mike position well enough..

I think unless injuries cripple three of them it is highly unlikely that we have to spend an draft choice on day one nor go hunting in the FA market. I suspect that one or more of them will be fine. Most likely Niko or the rookie..

dogfish
06-08-2008, 12:17 AM
There are always MLB that come out into FA they do not have to be ray lewis to fix the hole we have had since Al left .. If they are surrounded by quality DLine players the other two LB and the DB's..

We do not need an All Pro at every position for that matter can't afford them..

I was answering a what if Niko can't deal with it, Dogfish said draft a young buck and I said FA was an alternative..

Now this is all speculation that one of the three or counting DJ four LB can't play the mike position well enough..

I think unless injuries cripple three of them it is highly unlikely that we have to spend an draft choice on day one nor go hunting in the FA market. I suspect that one or more of them will be fine. Most likely Niko or the rookie..


all fair points, but shenanigans LOVES spending those high picks on linebackers, and he hasn't gotten one in a while. . . .



:D





sorry, just stirring the pot. . . .

Lonestar
06-08-2008, 02:50 AM
all fair points, but shenanigans LOVES spending those high picks on linebackers, and he hasn't gotten one in a while. . . .



:D





sorry, just stirring the pot. . . .

Your correct about every four years we should be due for one regardless.

But then the last couple came under the coyer watch who was LB based defense..

Who knows what evil lurks in the hearts of men? The Shadow knows. ... the man who had "the hypnotic power to cloud men's minds so they cannot see him" ...
www.vintagelibrary.com/pulpfiction/characters/TheShadow.php -

NameUsedBefore
06-08-2008, 06:48 AM
I don't see much difference between Webster and Kouto' so I don't really care here. I believe we will be drafting a linebacker this coming draft or plucking one out of free agency anyway; neither of these guys are long-term options.