Broncos will have to deal with Bailey decision

[Lonestar]

Broncos will have to deal with Bailey decision
By Mike Klis
The Denver Post
POSTED: 06/23/2010 01:00:00 AM MDT
UPDATED: 06/23/2010 11:43:06 AM MDT


Champ Bailey has 28 interceptions with Denver and 46 in his NFL career. (Tim Rasmussen, The Post)
Imagine a Broncos defense, struggling as it has the past four years, without its future Hall of Famer at left cornerback.

It could happen as soon as next season unless the Broncos work out a new deal with Champ Bailey, who is in the final year of his contract.

"Are we disappointed the Broncos have not approached us about a contract extension? Obviously, we are," said Jack Reale, Bailey's agent. "A player of Champ's caliber deserves to have the option of an extended contract. This is a guy who essentially was a six-time Pro Bowler (if not for an injury in 2008) in his six years there. Anyone with any kind of football knowledge knows his skills have not diminished, as evidenced by the fact he didn't allow one touchdown in 80 passes thrown his way last year, played in 98 percent of the snaps and remains one of the best-tackling cornerbacks in the game."

Move over, Elvis. Broncos owner Pat Bowlen's pencil pushers will have to get creative if they want to keep both star pass rusher Elvis Dumervil and Bailey beyond the 2010 season.

Dumervil, who led the NFL with 17 sacks last year, recently signed his one-year, $3.168 million restricted free-agent tender for the 2010 season but is hoping for a multiyear contract north of the $12.5 million annual average of the league's top 10 pass rushers.

Bailey is finishing up a seven-year, $63 million contract that will pay him $13 million in roster bonus ($3 million), workout bonus ($500,000) and salary ($9.5 million) this year.

However, Dumervil needs the NFL and the players union to negotiate a new collective bargaining agreement before he gains the leverage of unrestricted free agency.

CBA or no CBA, Bailey can sell his services to the league's highest bidder at season's end.

"We hope the Broncos come to us sooner rather than later about a contract extension before the die is cast in another direction," Reale said. The Broncos had no comment.

To those concerned

that Bailey, who turned 32 on Tuesday, is getting old by cornerback standards, consider the Broncos have another 32-year-old cornerback — Andre Goodman — who has four seasons left on his contract.
What could help the Broncos in their negotiations with Bailey is his willingness to convert to safety in another two or three years, much as Rod Woodson and Troy Vincent did at the end of their NFL careers.

With safety a lower-paying position than cornerback, the Broncos may be able to work out a four- or five-year extension with Bailey at less than the $13 million he would make this year.

Bailey's best statistical seasons were in 2005, when he all but carried the Broncos to a 13-3 record and the AFC championship game, and 2006, when he combined for 19 interceptions including playoff games, 401 interception return yards and two touchdowns.

Bailey's interceptions have declined since; opposing quarterbacks rarely threw in his direction during the 2007 and 2008 seasons. He was tested more frequently in 2009.

Mike Klis: 303-954-1055 or mklis@denverpost.com
http://www.denverpost.com/broncos/ci_15354803

[Northman]

Best of luck to you Champ. If it doesnt happen thanks for the great years.

[T.K.O.]

oh great now i gotta worry about champ.
i think the timing of this statement is no coincidence.
champ just said the other day that "we need dumervil" and i think this is his way of showing support for his teammate.
not a bad thing,but man i dont like where this could be headed.
i hope the FO gets the deal done with elvis before this turns into another offseason where all the headlines are bad news.

[Northman]

I dont know if there is a direct correlation with Doom but the fact that both of our biggest playmakers are in contract years is concerning.

[jhildebrand]

Character issues :coffee: Nuff said

[Lonestar]

do y'all not get it there is only so much money to pass around.

we were under the old cap in 09 by about 10 mil.

where are you going to get the money to resign all of the players without cutting somewhere.

there is no cap this year and lots of money will be cleared from olf deals from both mikeys and Xmans contracts for players no longer here, that was all money spent paid out in bonus but just spread out over the contract years..

the players get 60% of the clubs revenues under the old contract that will have to be lowered in the next CBA or there will be clubs going under.

the owners in most cases did not just have a spare billion laying around to buy the franchise most had loans of some sort to pay off for the purchases.

They also have other expenses than players contracts, lights and water, rent for their building or mortgages if they own them, salaries for the rest of the staff. medical bills and equipment. not to mention a little profit for their investors/ shareholders.


this is not a hobby for most of the owners where throwing some more cash at buying a new motor to the model airplane that crashed. it is a business that has to remain viable. I repeat there is only so much money to go around, IIRC the new DL is costing about 12 mil a year, where should that money have come from the one tree that so many of you seem to think there is.

just think of making out a budget for your household and getting by then to have extraordinary expenses come up like the freezer burning up and runing all the food in it.

Do you have to find away to replace all of that food and Freezer inside your income?

the owners do also.

[TXBRONC]

Character issues :coffee: Nuff said

He's been pariah since the day he arrived. :tsk:

[T.K.O.]

Jr, while agree that paying doom 10-12 mil a year is too high.i have no idea what the broncos have offered. therefore i can't make a rational judgement of which side has caused the apparent stand off.
however i think i heard recently that the average profit for an nfl team is around 35 mil a year,thats average...and the broncos are probably above that as they have a pretty strong following .
i'm not saying they have stoopid money.but most teams have a few "high dollar" guys .
and the fact that we paid our qb 700,000 last year and will be paying 2.? mil this year makes me believe the teams payroll is pretty low by industry standards.
i think i will look into it for some facts.
brb

[T.K.O.]

Year / Total Payroll
2009

Team Total Payroll
New York Giants $ 137,638,866
Miami Dolphins $ 126,855,921
Houston Texans $ 122,573,860
New Orleans Saints $ 121,552,424
Chicago Bears $ 120,672,110
New York Jets $ 120,168,770
Pittsburgh Steelers $ 119,604,460
Arizona Cardinals $ 116,701,866
San Diego Chargers $ 115,264,155
Green Bay Packers $ 114,597,569
Carolina Panthers $ 112,738,038
Buffalo Bills $ 111,956,066
Oakland Raiders $ 111,527,250
Baltimore Ravens $ 109,200,157
Tennessee Titans $ 109,025,090
San Francisco 49ers $ 107,746,232
Washington Redskins $ 105,049,071
Jacksonville Jaguars $ 103,558,989
Philadelphia Eagles $ 102,490,815
Denver Broncos $ 102,043,735
Indianapolis Colts $ 101,203,115
Minnesota Vikings $ 99,806,040
New England Patriots $ 97,565,413
Detroit Lions $ 95,963,320
Atlanta Falcons $ 95,492,002
Cincinnati Bengals $ 94,591,308
Cleveland Browns $ 93,932,182
Dallas Cowboys $ 90,650,939
Seattle Seahawks $ 89,075,820
Tampa Bay Buccaneers $ 84,501,322
Kansas City Chiefs $ 83,187,156
St. Louis Rams $ 62,384,821

[T.K.O.]

Wow....look what the rams spent....no wonder they only win 2 games a year:laugh:

[T.K.O.]

though i realize this could not include unsigned rookies etc... it does seem Pat should have some dough to throw around:beer:

Year / Total Payroll
2010
NFL Teams Total Payroll
NFL Oakland Raiders Team Salaries $ 152,389,371
NFL Dallas Cowboys Team Salaries $ 146,401,600
NFL Minnesota Vikings Team Salaries $ 133,354,045
NFL Cleveland Browns Team Salaries $ 131,916,300
NFL New Orleans Saints Team Salaries $ 131,531,820
NFL Pittsburgh Steelers Team Salaries $ 128,815,061
NFL Tennessee Titans Team Salaries $ 126,017,443
NFL Arizona Cardinals Team Salaries $ 122,110,110
NFL Jacksonville Jaguars Team Salaries $ 122,109,207
NFL Chicago Bears Team Salaries $ 120,065,819
NFL San Francisco 49ers Team Salaries $ 118,766,239
NFL New York Jets Team Salaries $ 116,910,097
NFL St. Louis Rams Team Salaries $ 116,677,660
NFL New York Giants Team Salaries $ 115,816,180
NFL Miami Dolphins Team Salaries $ 114,649,660
NFL Buffalo Bills Team Salaries $ 113,364,927
NFL Carolina Panthers Team Salaries $ 112,114,711
NFL Washington Redskins Team Salaries $ 111,963,684
NFL San Diego Chargers Team Salaries $ 111,813,340
NFL Cincinnati Bengals Team Salaries $ 109,727,880
NFL Philadelphia Eagles Team Salaries $ 109,557,398
NFL Houston Texans Team Salaries $ 108,445,418
NFL Tampa Bay Buccaneers Team Salaries $ 104,329,311
NFL Seattle Seahawks Team Salaries $ 102,985,710
NFL Atlanta Falcons Team Salaries $ 96,391,525
NFL Detroit Lions Team Salaries $ 95,827,117
NFL Denver Broncos Team Salaries $ 95,599,778
NFL Green Bay Packers Team Salaries $ 94,018,300
NFL Indianapolis Colts Team Salaries $ 93,373,915
NFL New England Patriots Team Salaries $ 92,734,120
NFL Baltimore Ravens Team Salaries $ 90,713,965
NFL Kansas City Chiefs Team Salaries $ 83,623,776

[Slick]

I love Champ. However, he could be much more useful to us playing center field ala Rod Woodson later in his career. If he'd be willing to do that I think I would try harder to do an extension. If not, we always have Alphonso Smith.

[T.K.O.]

I love Champ. However, he could be much more useful to us playing center field ala Rod Woodson later in his career. If he'd be willing to do that I think I would try harder to do an extension. If not, we always have Alphonso Smith.

http://i89.photobucket.com/albums/k230/mcrocka/fonz.jpg

[jhildebrand]

I say trade him to a contender and let the man get what he was promised here.

[Northman]

I say trade him to a contender and let the man get what he was promised here.

Well, if there is one thing that McD is good at right now it is sending players to places they wanna be. Its like the "make a wish foundation" when it comes to McD. :lol:

[Lonestar]

though i realize this could not include unsigned rookies etc... it does seem Pat should have some dough to throw around:beer:

Year / Total Payroll
2010
NFL Teams Total Payroll
NFL Oakland Raiders Team Salaries $ 152,389,371
NFL Dallas Cowboys Team Salaries $ 146,401,600
NFL Minnesota Vikings Team Salaries $ 133,354,045
NFL Cleveland Browns Team Salaries $ 131,916,300
NFL New Orleans Saints Team Salaries $ 131,531,820
NFL Pittsburgh Steelers Team Salaries $ 128,815,061
NFL Tennessee Titans Team Salaries $ 126,017,443
NFL Arizona Cardinals Team Salaries $ 122,110,110
NFL Jacksonville Jaguars Team Salaries $ 122,109,207
NFL Chicago Bears Team Salaries $ 120,065,819
NFL San Francisco 49ers Team Salaries $ 118,766,239
NFL New York Jets Team Salaries $ 116,910,097
NFL St. Louis Rams Team Salaries $ 116,677,660
NFL New York Giants Team Salaries $ 115,816,180
NFL Miami Dolphins Team Salaries $ 114,649,660
NFL Buffalo Bills Team Salaries $ 113,364,927
NFL Carolina Panthers Team Salaries $ 112,114,711
NFL Washington Redskins Team Salaries $ 111,963,684
NFL San Diego Chargers Team Salaries $ 111,813,340
NFL Cincinnati Bengals Team Salaries $ 109,727,880
NFL Philadelphia Eagles Team Salaries $ 109,557,398
NFL Houston Texans Team Salaries $ 108,445,418
NFL Tampa Bay Buccaneers Team Salaries $ 104,329,311
NFL Seattle Seahawks Team Salaries $ 102,985,710
NFL Atlanta Falcons Team Salaries $ 96,391,525
NFL Detroit Lions Team Salaries $ 95,827,117
NFL Denver Broncos Team Salaries $ 95,599,778
NFL Green Bay Packers Team Salaries $ 94,018,300
NFL Indianapolis Colts Team Salaries $ 93,373,915
NFL New England Patriots Team Salaries $ 92,734,120
NFL Baltimore Ravens Team Salaries $ 90,713,965
NFL Kansas City Chiefs Team Salaries $ 83,623,776

Not sure where you got your numbers from but you also have to remember it ius not JUST this year they are looking at. But the ramificatiin in two years.

Will there be a cap ,d just because we were always maxed out at the cap in the past does not mean we will be there in the future.

I also think the numbers abo ve included all the capped numbers of players they unloaded.

Like OAK dumping the fat man probalby cost them close to 35 mil of that money listed above.

And just like you and yoiur family Pat has a budget he has to live with.

Income IN should equal money spent or close to that. Or you are not in business for long.

I think we were in free spending moe in the past UP to the CREDIT CARD limits he had. Just because the bar kept rising does noy mean it will continue to rise.
Mobile Post via Mobile.BroncosForums.com/forums

[HORSEPOWER 56]

do y'all not get it there is only so much money to pass around.

we were under the old cap in 09 by about 10 mil.

where are you going to get the money to resign all of the players without cutting somewhere.

there is no cap this year and lots of money will be cleared from olf deals from both mikeys and Xmans contracts for players no longer here, that was all money spent paid out in bonus but just spread out over the contract years..

the players get 60% of the clubs revenues under the old contract that will have to be lowered in the next CBA or there will be clubs going under.

the owners in most cases did not just have a spare billion laying around to buy the franchise most had loans of some sort to pay off for the purchases.

They also have other expenses than players contracts, lights and water, rent for their building or mortgages if they own them, salaries for the rest of the staff. medical bills and equipment. not to mention a little profit for their investors/ shareholders.


this is not a hobby for most of the owners where throwing some more cash at buying a new motor to the model airplane that crashed. it is a business that has to remain viable. I repeat there is only so much money to go around, IIRC the new DL is costing about 12 mil a year, where should that money have come from the one tree that so many of you seem to think there is.

just think of making out a budget for your household and getting by then to have extraordinary expenses come up like the freezer burning up and runing all the food in it.

Do you have to find away to replace all of that food and Freezer inside your income?

the owners do also.

Getting rid of Kyle "The lame duck" Orton, Lonnie "waste of roughly $3 mil on a long-snapper" Paxton, Russ "I'm the highest paid, past my prime, backup O-lineman in the league" Hochstein, and Jarvis "I've never amounted to anything or earned a cent of that first round money" Moss should free up some space. Just a thought.

The current regime has made just as foolish moves with FAs as the old one did. They CHOSE to revamp the roster and bring in high priced FAs on both sides of the ball. Not attempting to keep one of the best CBs in history so we can sign a couple more worthless-assed backups to overpriced (yet cheaper than Champ's!) contracts while we polish our pennies is almost criminal. :coffee:

[HORSEPOWER 56]

Not sure where you got your numbers from but you also have to remember it ius not JUST this year they are looking at. But the ramificatiin in two years.

Will there be a cap ,d just because we were always maxed out at the cap in the past does not mean we will be there in the future.

I also think the numbers abo ve included all the capped numbers of players they unloaded.

Like OAK dumping the fat man probalby cost them close to 35 mil of that money listed above.

And just like you and yoiur family Pat has a budget he has to live with.

Income IN should equal money spent or close to that. Or you are not in business for long.

I think we were in free spending moe in the past UP to the CREDIT CARD limits he had. Just because the bar kept rising does noy mean it will continue to rise.
Mobile Post via Mobile.BroncosForums.com/forums

Actually, with no cap there is NO CAP HIT. The Raiders, other than being fleeced with all the guaranteed money they owed him, took no penalties for releasing Russell.

For instance, we could cut Jarvis Moss and get out from under his 1st round contract with no penalties to the cap because there isn't one. We'd have to pay him whatever unpaid guaranteed bonus money ha has coming, but we'd get to dump his salary and wouldn't be paying him to not dress on Sunday like we've done for 3 years now.

[Bosco]

oh great now i gotta worry about champ. I wouldn't worry too much. His contract was heavily backloaded so he's getting some major coin this year and as such he's not going to be all that antsy about getting something done.


Getting rid of Kyle "The lame duck" Orton, Dumping our solid starting quarterback who is coming off of a career to save $2.6 million is pretty high up on the "bad idea" scale.


Lonnie "waste of roughly $3 mil on a long-snapper" Paxton Paxton gets paid just slightly over $1 million a year, which is roughly $200,000 over the minimum wage for a player with his time in the league. It's also about the same price we would have had to pay to re-sign Mike Leach.


Russ "I'm the highest paid, past my prime, backup O-lineman in the league" Hochstein, Hochstein will get paid $3.5 million maximum to provide two years of service as a very good and versatile backup who can step in and be a serviceable starter if needed, which is exactly what he did in 2009.


and Jarvis "I've never amounted to anything or earned a cent of that first round money" Moss should free up some space. Just a thought. Another great idea. Moss is on the cheapest part of his contract and might be very, very useful should we not be able to come to terms with Doom, but we should cut him anyway.

[HORSEPOWER 56]

I wouldn't worry too much. His contract was heavily backloaded so he's getting some major coin this year and as such he's not going to be all that antsy about getting something done.

Right. I'm sure Champ loves having no security that he'll be in Denver after this year. You know there's more to it than just the bottom line dollar amount, right? Guys take less money than they may originally want all the time to either go to certain teams or stay with certain teams as long as their future is secure.


Dumping our solid starting quarterback who is coming off of a career to save $2.6 million is pretty high up on the "bad idea" scale.

Why not? Is Orton going to lead us to a Superbowl this year? Not likely AT ALL... Would Quinn really be that much worse? Probably not. Orton ain't coming back and he ain't playing for the Broncos after this year. He's nothing more than a hired gun playing for himself and the contract some other team offers him at the end of the year when he becomes an UFA.


Paxton gets paid just slightly over $1 million a year, which is roughly $200,000 over the minimum wage for a player with his time in the league. It's also about the same price we would have had to pay to re-sign Mike Leach.

I strongly doubt Mike Leach would've ever been paid anywhere near what Paxton was. Paxton was paid because he was a McDaniels bootlicker and NE would'nt pay him because he wanted TOO MUCH MONEY.


Hochstein will get paid $3.5 million maximum to provide two years of service as a very good and versatile backup who can step in and be a serviceable starter if needed, which is exactly what he did in 2009.

Hochstein was f'n terrible in 2009! What guy were you watching? Everyone got all excited when Hochstein replaced Hamilton but the running game and pass protection got WORSE when Hochstein came in!!! Then he got hurt and went on IR anyway.


Another great idea. Moss is on the cheapest part of his contract and might be very, very useful should we not be able to come to terms with Doom, but we should cut him anyway.

:tsk: C'mon dude. Even you aren't that thick. Jarvis Moss is 7" taller than Dumervil and 10 lbs lighter. People complain that Dumervil isn't a "complete OLB" but Moss is somehow going to wake up, find his way off the bench, put on enough weight to anchor or bull-rush OTs, and actually become a decent OLB? Dude, seriously. STOP BELIEVING EVERYTHING YOU READ ON BRONCOS.COM! It's all just propaganda and fluff. Do you really think that Moss and scrub/UDFA Kevin Alexander are starting material just because they took most of the reps with the 1st unit at OTAs over Doom and Ayers?

[Bosco]

Right. I'm sure Champ loves having no security that he'll be in Denver after this year. I doubt Champ cares. He is one of the most grounded players in all of sports.


Why not? Is Orton going to lead us to a Superbowl this year? Not likely AT ALL... Would Quinn really be that much worse? Probably not. Orton ain't coming back and he ain't playing for the Broncos after this year. He's nothing more than a hired gun playing for himself and the contract some other team offers him at the end of the year when he becomes an UFA. Right, and he's still our starting quarterbacking coming off a career year when he had a few months to learn the system.

Risk vs. Reward of cutting him is heavily slanted toward risk.


I strongly doubt Mike Leach would've ever been paid anywhere near what Paxton was. That's exactly what happened. He got a 3 year contract worth just over $3 million. Paxton got just over $5 mil for a 5 year deal.


Hochstein was f'n terrible in 2009! No he wasn't. He was a rather substantial upgrade to Ben Hamilton, who was getting absolutely abused as a starter. Certainly not a guy you want as your starter, but as a backup he's hard to beat.


:tsk: C'mon dude. Even you aren't that thick. Jarvis Moss is 7" taller than Dumervil and 10 lbs lighter. People complain that Dumervil isn't a "complete OLB" but Moss is somehow going to wake up, find his way off the bench, put on enough weight to anchor or bull-rush OTs, and actually become a decent OLB? Dude, seriously. STOP BELIEVING EVERYTHING YOU READ ON BRONCOS.COM! It's all just propaganda and fluff. Do you really think that Moss and scrub/UDFA Kevin Alexander are starting material just because they took most of the reps with the 1st unit at OTAs over Doom and Ayers?

Moss was also a mid first round pick and the best pass rusher in that draft not named Gaines Adams. He was also very raw in technique, coming off a major staph infection and since being in the NFL had to deal with a broken leg, Bob Slowik and a position change.

The guy is extremely physically gifted and by all accounts a well respected and professional teammate just like Dumervil. He's fought through more adversity than most players do in their entire careers and to date the coaching staff obviously thinks he's not a lost cause, otherwise he wouldn't have made it through 2009. There is absolutely zero reason to cut him unless someone comes in and takes his job from him.

[HORSEPOWER 56]

There is absolutely zero reason to cut him unless someone comes in and takes his job from him.

Umm, unless it's freeing up money to sign Dumervil long term. I'd much rather pay Dumervil to play than pay Moss not to dress on Sunday. I've got a feeling that Moss is only still on the team because he's a first round pick that has ZERO trade value and Bowlen is probably still holding out hope that he'll develop some day and not be a complete bust. He's probably only still on the team because he won't let Josh cut him. That's my hunch.

Moss has done absolutely nothing noteworthy since his rookie season. Every year he gets the same fluff piece about working hard and trying to earn a starting spot. Every year he fails. This year will be no different. Unless Bowlen really is ordering Josh to keep Moss around, I don't expect Moss to make it out of camp.

[Bosco]

Umm, unless it's freeing up money to sign Dumervil long term. I'd much rather pay Dumervil to play than pay Moss not to dress on Sunday. Guess what. You'd then have to turn around and find another backup for Dumervil, making the cost savings rather small and good luck finding someone with Moss's potential to man a backup spot.


I've got a feeling that Moss is only still on the team because he's a first round pick that has ZERO trade value and Bowlen is probably still holding out hope that he'll develop some day and not be a complete bust. He's probably only still on the team because he won't let Josh cut him. That's my hunch. Right. Bowlen, one of the most hands off owner in all of sports, is dictating to Josh that he keep a backup OLB.

That sounds reasonable.

[T.K.O.]

wow, i thought school was out for the summer.....it appears professor bosco is working overtime !:laugh::salute:

[T.K.O.]

LINEBACKER JARVIS MOSS

On the upcoming season


"I'm looking forward to it. This year, like I said, it's a long ways to go and I'm going to get better from now and to the point when we're kicking the ball off to actually win a game."



On whether he's added muscle weight this offseason

"Yes, when we first started working with (Broncos Strength and Conditioning Coach) Rich (Tuten), I was dropping pounds but I weighed in the other day at around 245."


On whether he plans to add more weight before training camp




"I'm going to try to put on five-to-eight more pounds by the time we report."



On playing linebacker


"I should have been doing this, just being honest. This is what I was supposed to have been doing when I came to the NFL. The more comfortable I get, the more I think about it. When I'm sitting on the couch watching TV - just putting my own little twist and stuff, doing it the coach's way but being comfortable and putting my little twist on it and it's working. It works for me. I'm athletic, I can run, I can move in space and there's nothing that I really can't do at outside linebacker."


On his comfort level at the linebacker position


"It's getting there to that point. I've been rushing my whole life so when it comes that time, the rushing part is down but just covering and understanding the defense, yeah."

[Ravage!!!]

Champ won't be here next season. The Raiders didn't pay an aging Law, and we know McD wants to be just like Billy. Champ will go somewhere else, and get paid. Then, he might eventually move to safety.. maybe. But it will be for someone else. There is no way.. no way... McD breaks his pattern and signs Bailey to a contract that would compare to what he could get elsewhere.

[Denver Native (Carol)]

Last night on the NFL portion on ESPN, Mike Golic and Chris Carter were discussing Champ, and both agreed that the Broncos need to get the young guys under contract first, and then turn their attention to Champ, as he is still under contract. Just because nothing has been done, as far as Champ's contract yet, does not mean that it will not get done.

[T.K.O.]

Last night on the NFL portion on ESPN, Mike Golic and Chris Carter were discussing Champ, and both agreed that the Broncos need to get the young guys under contract first, and then turn their attention to Champ, as he is still under contract. Just because nothing has been done, as far as Champ's contract yet, does not mean that it will not get done.
which is now similar to the elvis situation,both are broncos in 2010 so the team's major focus should be on the unsigned guys

[Mike]

I expect Champ to be gone unless he is willing to agree to a reasonable deal. I will be surprised if Denver gives him another big deal. And to be honest, that would be the right decision. It looks like Denver has been preparing for this eventuality in how they have drafted the last couple of years.

[jhildebrand]

I've got a feeling that Moss is only still on the team because he's a first round pick that has ZERO trade value and Bowlen is probably still holding out hope that he'll develop some day and not be a complete bust.

I would think the opposite is true! Moss walked away last summer and was ready to call it quits until his agent informed him he was about to lose $6 Million or whatever it was.

Bowlen will be paying Moss to some degree whether he is with the Broncos or not.

[Lonestar]

Actually, with no cap there is NO CAP HIT. The Raiders, other than being fleeced with all the guaranteed money they owed him, took no penalties for releasing Russell.

For instance, we could cut Jarvis Moss and get out from under his 1st round contract with no penalties to the cap because there isn't one. We'd have to pay him whatever unpaid guaranteed bonus money ha has coming, but we'd get to dump his salary and wouldn't be paying him to not dress on Sunday like we've done for 3 years now.


your correct no cap hit but his total "cap hit" was in that 152 million total they showed.


as for Moss his contract is very minor as this point in the rookie contract.

I want to see if he is worth a crap hopefully by now his staff infection problems should be done with and after a year int eh scheme he might know where the urinals are.

[sneakers]

Coach probably has issues with people on team older than he is...

[Bosco]

Moss walked away last summer and was ready to call it quits until his agent informed him he was about to lose $6 Million or whatever it was.

Where did you get this?

[Apollo]

I can see Champ leaving, and considering his age, I don't think we'll be offering him as big of a deal as he wants. Thanks for the memories Champ.

[T.K.O.]

Where did you get this?

i remember hearing that moss seriously considered retirement last spring/summer

[BroncoBJ]

Seems like we never pay our players. :fight: But the thing that I do seem to like about McDaniels and crew is that at least we will trade players and get a value for them. We don't just let guys walk for the most part. So its nice getting value for them. I'd like to keep Dumervil and Champ for a while more. We'll see what happens.

And nice quote in your sig Jr :salute:

[rcsodak]

Getting rid of Kyle "The lame duck" Orton, Lonnie "waste of roughly $3 mil on a long-snapper" Paxton, Russ "I'm the highest paid, past my prime, backup O-lineman in the league" Hochstein, and Jarvis "I've never amounted to anything or earned a cent of that first round money" Moss should free up some space. Just a thought.

The current regime has made just as foolish moves with FAs as the old one did. They CHOSE to revamp the roster and bring in high priced FAs on both sides of the ball. Not attempting to keep one of the best CBs in history so we can sign a couple more worthless-assed backups to overpriced (yet cheaper than Champ's!) contracts while we polish our pennies is almost criminal. :coffee:

"high priced FAs"? Please, show us what you're talking about. How about a comparison between the old regime vs the new one.

I have an idea you might be incorrect.

Plus....umm...didn't shanny draft JMoss? Just sayin'.... :coffee:

[rcsodak]

Right. I'm sure Champ loves having no security that he'll be in Denver after this year. You know there's more to it than just the bottom line dollar amount, right? Guys take less money than they may originally want all the time to either go to certain teams or stay with certain teams as long as their future is secure.There's this thing called a CBA. It's this agreement that, to put it simply, keeps the players happy, their agents happy, the owners happy, and the tv boys happy. Now, as of 7:54p, CDT, 6/29/2010, there ISN'T this agreement. And as such, 90% of the teams aren't doling out long term/big dollar contracts to soon-to-be-unrestricted-free-agents. Now, I'm sure they are much smarter, but to little old me, I sure wouldn't want to BUY something this year that is going to take up a larger percentage of my budget next year, when there's other things I'll also need, especially when, and most importantly, I don't yet know WHAT my budget will be!

The media has nothing else to harp on these day. There are only so many players that are going to punch somebody, or rape somebody, so now they're going to try to create a rift when a rift isn't present.

immho




Why not? Is Orton going to lead us to a Superbowl this year? Not likely AT ALL... Would Quinn really be that much worse? Probably not. Orton ain't coming back and he ain't playing for the Broncos after this year. He's nothing more than a hired gun playing for himself and the contract some other team offers him at the end of the year when he becomes an UFA.If I recall, contract years USUALLY bring out the Best in players. I don't think anybody but a select few on the board would really be butt hurt if Orton went out there and lit it up.


I strongly doubt Mike Leach would've ever been paid anywhere near what Paxton was. Paxton was paid because he was a McDaniels bootlicker and NE would'nt pay him because he wanted TOO MUCH MONEY. I think the last 3-5yrs, Leach was actually on the brink of making the team. He's a one-trick pony. Not much use for them, these days.

[dogfish]

Where did you get this?

the denver post reported it. . .

i don't know how far back they archive their articles, but a google search might still find something. . .

edit: here's PFT:

http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2009/08/01/jarvis-moss-is-contemplating-retirement/

fox31:

http://community.kdvr.com/_Sources-Broncos-Moss-Approaches-Team-Thinking-About-Retirement/BLOG/489177/96399.html?widgetId=216686

[HORSEPOWER 56]

"high priced FAs"? Please, show us what you're talking about. How about a comparison between the old regime vs the new one.

I have an idea you might be incorrect.

Plus....umm...didn't shanny draft JMoss? Just sayin'.... :coffee:

Here you go, I'll let you peruse the list and make your own decisions (remember, these are last years numbers, Orton makes 3X that now) but I find it interesting that most of the guys McDaniels brought in make a lot more money than do the guys who were already here.

http://content.usatoday.com/sports/football/nfl/salaries/teamdetail.aspx?year=2009&team=9

Some of my favorites...

Chris Simms $3.46 Mil <- highest paid QB not on the team anymore... great investment, IMO!
Jabar Gaffney $3 Mil
Ron Fields $3 Mil
Paxton $1.6 Mil ... FOR A LONG-SNAPPER!

I forget what it cost to rebuild the D-line from scratch for the second consecutive year but I know it's a lot of cash. How much are we paying Bannan and Green to come in and hopefully start (even though they haven't been called on to do that much thus far)? How much are we paying J-Wall in hopes he'll recover from injury and be more than a shell of his former self?

Just saying. I'd rather use the money on Champ and Dumervil, two guys who I know produce and do so consistently year after year.

[Northman]

Dont remind me about Simms. What a terrible pickup and the money? Good grief.

[rcsodak]

Umm, unless it's freeing up money to sign Dumervil long term. I'd much rather pay Dumervil to play than pay Moss not to dress on Sunday. I've got a feeling that Moss is only still on the team because he's a first round pick that has ZERO trade value and Bowlen is probably still holding out hope that he'll develop some day and not be a complete bust. He's probably only still on the team because he won't let Josh cut him. That's my hunch.

Moss has done absolutely nothing noteworthy since his rookie season. Every year he gets the same fluff piece about working hard and trying to earn a starting spot. Every year he fails. This year will be no different. Unless Bowlen really is ordering Josh to keep Moss around, I don't expect Moss to make it out of camp.
Why would Bowlen be telling McD to keep him? He's cut other players that didn't pan out. Lelie? Middlebrooks? Nash? O'Neal? Maddox? Gregory? Williams?
Why would McD feel the need to keep him? He's got nothing more invested in him than any other current player on the roster.

[rcsodak]

Here you go, I'll let you peruse the list and make your own decisions (remember, these are last years numbers, Orton makes 3X that now) but I find it interesting that most of the guys McDaniels brought in make a lot more money than do the guys who were already here.

http://content.usatoday.com/sports/football/nfl/salaries/teamdetail.aspx?year=2009&team=9

Some of my favorites...

Chris Simms $3.46 Mil <- highest paid QB not on the team anymore... great investment, IMO!
Jabar Gaffney $3 Mil
Ron Fields $3 Mil
Paxton $1.6 Mil ... FOR A LONG-SNAPPER!

I forget what it cost to rebuild the D-line from scratch for the second consecutive year but I know it's a lot of cash. How much are we paying Bannan and Green to come in and hopefully start (even though they haven't been called on to do that much thus far)? How much are we paying J-Wall in hopes he'll recover from injury and be more than a shell of his former self?

Just saying. I'd rather use the money on Champ and Dumervil, two guys who I know produce and do so consistently year after year.

Those numbers don't tell me anything, 56, other than they're pretty cheap.

Surely you don't forget the MULTITUDE of FA's that the old regime would sign, hoping to "save" the defense.

I'd say McD has done WONDERS with very little money. Especially in comparison to how Shanny spent.

He turned over the team last year, and actually SAVED money. I'm thinking Shanny would have had the team leading the list if he was still in charge. IMO

[rcsodak]

Champ won't be here next season. The Raiders didn't pay an aging Law, and we know McD wants to be just like Billy. Champ will go somewhere else, and get paid. Then, he might eventually move to safety.. maybe. But it will be for someone else. There is no way.. no way... McD breaks his pattern and signs Bailey to a contract that would compare to what he could get elsewhere.


Goodness.

I remember when I made a mistake with a player with the same last name as another, and got ridiculed/chided/harrassed/bemoaned/belittled/chastised/grilled/accused (whew....almost ran out of breath)....

....so, far be it for me to stoop to the same level as the levelers.....

[jhildebrand]

Where did you get this?

(Not being rude)but how did you NOT hear about it? :confused:

http://espn.go.com/blog/afcwest/post/_/id/2807/report-jarvis-moss-considering-retirement

http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/trainingcamp09/news/story?id=4377411

3.6 Million big ones apparently changed his mind quickly!

[Lonestar]

IIRC simms was brought in long before Orton came aboard. He was insurance at the time as we really had very little options for BU QB.

Anyway IIRC mikey reallt liked him also.

I just wonder had it been mikey signing him if the same uproar would have been made.

Also IIRC I seem to remember a lot of folks calling for him to start.
Wonder if hp was one of them.
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[Bosco]

Here you go, I'll let you peruse the list and make your own decisions (remember, these are last years numbers, Orton makes 3X that now) but I find it interesting that most of the guys McDaniels brought in make a lot more money than do the guys who were already here.

http://content.usatoday.com/sports/football/nfl/salaries/teamdetail.aspx?year=2009&team=9

Some of my favorites...

Chris Simms $3.46 Mil <- highest paid QB not on the team anymore... great investment, IMO!
Jabar Gaffney $3 Mil
Ron Fields $3 Mil
Paxton $1.6 Mil ... FOR A LONG-SNAPPER!

I forget what it cost to rebuild the D-line from scratch for the second consecutive year but I know it's a lot of cash. How much are we paying Bannan and Green to come in and hopefully start (even though they haven't been called on to do that much thus far)? How much are we paying J-Wall in hopes he'll recover from injury and be more than a shell of his former self?

Just saying. I'd rather use the money on Champ and Dumervil, two guys who I know produce and do so consistently year after year.

The only one on that list that you could possibly take issue with is Simms.


(Not being rude)but how did you NOT hear about it? :confused:

http://espn.go.com/blog/afcwest/post/_/id/2807/report-jarvis-moss-considering-retirement

http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/trainingcamp09/news/story?id=4377411

3.6 Million big ones apparently changed his mind quickly!

I knew about the Jarvis Moss situation. I was asking where you got the information about him only coming back because his agent informed him he would have to pay back money, because I haven't seen anyone, much less a credible source like Schefter, make that claim.

Kinda ironic considering you're one of the ones who cry foul over people slinging mud at former players and coaches.

[Northman]

I just wonder had it been mikey signing him if the same uproar would have been made.



Of course, you would of never let him off the hook. :lol::lol::lol::lol:

[T.K.O.]

the last time simms played (prior to the de-spleening) he looked pretty damn good.
who would have guessed he would throw turds like a minkey when the chips were down ?
i don't think josh or shanny could have predicted the suckage that was simms when called upon:salute:

[jhildebrand]

The only one on that list that you could possibly take issue with is Simms.



I knew about the Jarvis Moss situation. I was asking where you got the information about him only coming back because his agent informed him he would have to pay back money, because I haven't seen anyone, much less a credible source like Schefter, make that claim.



Bill Williamson himself wrote that Moss came back only to save his $. This if Schefter didn't write it crap is a sorry and pathetic attempt at deflection.

Oh and as far as you knowing about the situation, it sure didn't seem like it based on your original quote. Even another poster posted as though you didn't understand the situation.



Kinda ironic considering you're one of the ones who cry foul over people slinging mud at former players and coaches.

Riiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiight! Now you are just talking out of your ass. I fling excrement at Shanahan and other past players as I do McDaniels.

I am an equal opportunity excrement flinger and don't you forget it :lol:

[Lonestar]

Bill Williamson himself wrote that Moss came back only to save his $. This if Schefter didn't write it crap is a sorry and pathetic attempt at deflection.

Oh and as far as you knowing about the situation, it sure didn't seem like it based on your original quote. Even another poster posted as though you didn't understand the situation.



Riiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiight! Now you are just talking out of your ass. I fling excrement at Shanahan and other past players as I do McDaniels.

I am an equal opportunity excrement flinger and don't you forget it :lol:

IMHO bill burger is not all that credibile.

But hardly reason to quibble.
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[Bosco]

Bill Williamson himself wrote that Moss came back only to save his $. Link? I'd be real interested to see how Williamson came to that conclusion since, according to my understanding, Moss's contract paid most of it's money in 2007 and 2008 including basically all of the signing bonus, so there would have been very little money for the Broncos to go after.


This if Schefter didn't write it crap is a sorry and pathetic attempt at deflection. It's crap that Schefter is basically the only reliable reporter covering the Broncos these days? I agree.

I hate to keep with the "well if Schefter says it..." mantra as well, but sadly none of the other reporters are even remotely reliable. That's not to say that they're never right, but their track records just doesn't inspire much confidence, whereas Schefter brings a "well, that settles that" kind of presence.

We should consider ourselves fortunate though. Peter King was (and probably still is) pretty unpopular with Bronco fans, but now that McDaniels has arrived we at least have a fairly credible 2nd option.


Oh and as far as you knowing about the situation, it sure didn't seem like it based on your original quote. Even another poster posted as though you didn't understand the situation. I can assure you that I knew about the Moss situation as soon as it hit the presses. Anyone who even casually follows the Broncos did.


Riiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiight! Now you are just talking out of your ass. I fling excrement at Shanahan and other past players as I do McDaniels.

I am an equal opportunity excrement flinger and don't you forget it :lol: Maybe I have you confused with someone else. I'm too lazy to go dig through old posts now, so I'll just take your word for it.