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broncofaninfla
06-15-2010, 02:38 PM
Tebow continues to struggle with mechanics (http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2010/06/15/tebow-continues-to-struggle-with-mechanics/)

Posted by Mike Florio on June 15, 2010 12:12 PM ET
We recently pointed out Peter King's article in the latest issue of Sports Illustrated, which features a close look at the ongoing effort (http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/vault/article/magazine/MAG1170592/1/index.htm) to make Tim Tebow (http://www.rotoworld.com/content/playerpages/player_main.aspx?sport=NFL&id=5096) into an NFL quarterback.

Among other things, King's article shows that Tebow has been slipping into his old throwing motion during some practice reps.

As Mike Klis of the Denver Post points out, this fact conflicts with coach Josh McDaniels' insistence that Tebow has shown no problems with his mechanics (http://blogs.denverpost.com/broncos/2010/06/10/peter-king-and-broncos-quarterbacks/).

We get the impression that, while the Broncos will continue to try to ensure that Tebow demonstrates proper mechanics at the NFL level, the team is willing to accept the fact that, from time to time, he'll rely on the muscle memory resulting from thousands and thousands of throws made with his prior motion.

But that doesn't mean the Broncos won't try to change him -- or that they'll pretend that the effort to do so already has been completed.

GEM
06-15-2010, 02:42 PM
Tebow continues to struggle with mechanics (http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2010/06/15/tebow-continues-to-struggle-with-mechanics/)

Posted by Mike Florio on June 15, 2010 12:12 PM ET
We recently pointed out Peter King's article in the latest issue of Sports Illustrated, which features a close look at the ongoing effort (http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/vault/article/magazine/MAG1170592/1/index.htm) to make Tim Tebow (http://www.rotoworld.com/content/playerpages/player_main.aspx?sport=NFL&id=5096) into an NFL quarterback.

Among other things, King's article shows that Tebow has been slipping into his old throwing motion during some practice reps.

As Mike Klis of the Denver Post points out, this fact conflicts with coach Josh McDaniels' insistence that Tebow has shown no problems with his mechanics (http://blogs.denverpost.com/broncos/2010/06/10/peter-king-and-broncos-quarterbacks/).

We get the impression that, while the Broncos will continue to try to ensure that Tebow demonstrates proper mechanics at the NFL level, the team is willing to accept the fact that, from time to time, he'll rely on the muscle memory resulting from thousands and thousands of throws made with his prior motion.

But that doesn't mean the Broncos won't try to change him -- or that they'll pretend that the effort to do so already has been completed.

And when were these guys at the practices? :confused:

Florio...that guys word is worth something :laugh:

Maybe King, but really, it sounds more like he's taking yesterday's news, regurgitating it with some new spin because he didn't have much better to fill up space in his column.

:rolleyes:

TimTebow15MVP
06-15-2010, 02:43 PM
dumb ass article. Basically believe me and not what mcdaniels sees and says everyday.

Northman
06-15-2010, 02:46 PM
Pretty much expected. He's having to re-train himself with his throwing motion which everyone expected to take some time. It will become even more difficult when he sees real game time at regular speed. Again, he was a project so he will hopefully have a year or two to try and adjust to the pro level. If not, we wasted the pick. Wont be the first time.

broncofaninfla
06-15-2010, 02:49 PM
The guy hasn't even appeared in so much as a preseason game and writers are going back and forth on his mechanics already. I hope the kid suceeds not only because it will be good for Denver but to shut up the so called experts about his mechanics.

dogfish
06-15-2010, 02:54 PM
one thing tim never struggles with is his ass-kicking motion. . . .


:cool:

TimTebow15MVP
06-15-2010, 02:55 PM
all tebow needs to do is continue to win as hes done his whole life.

underrated29
06-15-2010, 03:00 PM
all tebow needs to do is continue to win as hes done his whole life.


Exactly. I do not care about his throwing motion. I would like it to be to form, but as long as he does not lose I do not give a dam.

rationalfan
06-15-2010, 03:02 PM
i really like florio's ability to brash and opinionated. but the subtext of this post reads: "i'm boosting my site's page view count by posting another tebow item."

Shazam!
06-15-2010, 03:04 PM
TT can be a ******* amputee and he'll still KICK ASS.

T.K.O.
06-15-2010, 03:04 PM
yeah this was covered a week or 2 back when mcD said there is no "cookie cutter" qb style in the nfl.
there have been plenty of examples where winning qb's styles vary considerably.
if the guy looks like he's tossin' a shot put i could care less as long as he can move the chains and score points !
that being said i think the fact that he has'nt even seen one nfl training camp yet,it just might be a tad premature to say the team has resolved to accept certain inconsistancies or "flaws" in the guy's game.
somebody had to come up with a story....and this unfortunately is all they could muster:laugh:

Lonestar
06-15-2010, 03:32 PM
wow looked at the thread because i thought there was something new.

GGMoogly
06-15-2010, 03:58 PM
Mike Florio is superfluous. :coffee:

TXBRONC
06-15-2010, 04:04 PM
Ultimately it doesn't matter what the throwing motion looks like. Phillip Rivers anyone? The are two things that matter the most with a throwing motion.

1.) You have to be quick.

2.) You have to be accurate.

Everything after that is gravy.

Denver Native (Carol)
06-15-2010, 04:07 PM
And when were these guys at the practices? :confused:

Florio...that guys word is worth something :laugh:

Maybe King, but really, it sounds more like he's taking yesterday's news, regurgitating it with some new spin because he didn't have much better to fill up space in his column.

:rolleyes:

Exactly GEM - King's article starts out referencing late May; however, I am sure that sportswriters know more than coaches :rolleyes:

HORSEPOWER 56
06-15-2010, 08:44 PM
I'm still wondering when Phillip Rivers is going to fix his throwing motion. I mean, if he spent some time on it he might actually be a decent QB some day...

Florio, King, and everyone else criticizing Tebow's throwing motion are the same group of toolbags who have River's Sparklers ranked #1 and destined for the Superbowl, again. What does that tell you?

Tebow will be just fine...

jhildebrand
06-15-2010, 09:47 PM
Mechanics schmechanics.

I never cared for Peter King and Florio is a hair above Josina.

The guy has won me over (for now) with his ra ra spirit, his get to work demeanor, and the way he is handling himself (turning down endorsements) by focusing on football.

Let's let the guy take some live bullets in preseason before rushing to any judgements.

[Edit: I do find it interesting that the split about Tebow is right down the middle between former NFL'ers i.e. coaches, GM, players etc... and the talking heads. I cannot recall another time they were divided along the same lines]

compucomp
06-15-2010, 10:59 PM
Why is this site so quick to flame Orton and McDaniels, hell before they were even Broncos, and almost any other Bronco, but will defend Tebow fiercely, homerifically, and borderline irrationally?

BroncoWave
06-15-2010, 11:37 PM
Why is this site so quick to flame Orton and McDaniels, hell before they were even Broncos, and almost any other Bronco, but will defend Tebow fiercely, homerifically, and borderline irrationally?

Please, there are plenty on this board who have been critical or hesitant about Tebow. Plus, he really hasn't done anything to deserve being flamed at this point. Don't worry though, if he plays this season and struggles there will be quite a few jumping on the Tebow Sucks bandwagon.

honz
06-15-2010, 11:51 PM
Please, there are plenty on this board who have been critical or hesitant about Tebow. Plus, he really hasn't done anything to deserve being flamed at this point. Don't worry though, if he plays this season and struggles there will be quite a few jumping on the Tebow Sucks bandwagon.

I can't wait until he looks overwhelmed in the preseason. Should be fun to watch people freak out.

dogfish
06-16-2010, 12:00 AM
Why is this site so quick to flame Orton and McDaniels, hell before they were even Broncos, and almost any other Bronco, but will defend Tebow fiercely, homerifically, and borderline irrationally?

because tebow is the chosen one. . .








duh. . . :D

sneakers
06-16-2010, 12:08 AM
I don't get it. Is he throwing the ball underhand, what is so wrong with the way he throws the ball???

Shazam!
06-16-2010, 12:36 AM
Originally Posted by compucomp
Why is this site so quick to flame Orton and McDaniels, hell before they were even Broncos, and almost any other Bronco, but will defend Tebow fiercely, homerifically, and borderline irrationally?

...because Denver will never get to the Super Bowl with Kyle Orton, because McDaniels traded away players that fans liked, and because Tebow is just a rookie with some friggin' sick athletic talent that we've never seen in action.

What a ridiculous post and it's even more ridiculous because it needs to be explained.

Northman
06-16-2010, 12:41 AM
Please, there are plenty on this board who have been critical or hesitant about Tebow. Plus, he really hasn't done anything to deserve being flamed at this point. Don't worry though, if he plays this season and struggles there will be quite a few jumping on the Tebow Sucks bandwagon.


Yep, im pretty skeptical about Tebag thats for sure. But, he is a rookie and has yet to take the field so its a wait and see game right now.

elsid13
06-16-2010, 04:44 AM
I don't get it. Is he throwing the ball underhand, what is so wrong with the way he throws the ball???

AT UF he held the ball low at his waist, instead of having it high next to his head. That is problem because it lets defenders slap at the ball and slows down his delivery time. Tebow also has a tendency to fall off to his right when he throws which alter the flight of the ball and the speed it reaches a target. Finally he didn't always set his feet under him correctly, which means he not balanced and that is always a problem for player. He was able to get away with a lot the problems because he's talented and was surround by talented players. In the NFL he is not going to out talent anyone, so he needs to get his techinque in line to compete.

I am more worried about his progression reads the his throwing motion. Myers spread lead to easy reads for the QB that helped his completion percentage.

TXBRONC
06-16-2010, 06:46 AM
Mechanics schmechanics.

I never cared for Peter King and Florio is a hair above Josina.

The guy has won me over (for now) with his ra ra spirit, his get to work demeanor, and the way he is handling himself (turning down endorsements) by focusing on football.

Let's let the guy take some live bullets in preseason before rushing to any judgements.

[Edit: I do find it interesting that the split about Tebow is right down the middle between former NFL'ers i.e. coaches, GM, players etc... and the talking heads. I cannot recall another time they were divided along the same lines]

I really didn't want Denver to draft him, but now that he's in Denver I'm going to support him.

Like you, his strong work ethic and enthusiasm are things that I really like about him.

BrocoGator11
06-16-2010, 09:28 AM
Obviously its going to be hard to change the throwing motion Tebow's been using for YEARS. When it comes down to it, Tebow will do what has to be done when the games on the line. Hopefully Tebow will learn to use his speed to avoid the defense instead of running around like a crazed Mexican.

BTW, this facebook page link is a funny, informative page with all the Tebow facts and will eventually have weekly episodes of "The Tebros".
http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=1096350082#!/Tebros?ref=ts

arapaho2
06-16-2010, 09:49 AM
dumb ass article. Basically believe me and not what mcdaniels sees and says everyday.



i wonder if thats because mcd has been the vision of truthfullness since he came here??? :rolleyes:

Dirk
06-16-2010, 10:19 AM
I'm sure that his "throwing motion" or "mechanics" will not change drastically. Why take everything that made him successful and flush it.

There will be tweaks here and there just like most QBs learn once they enter the NFL but I have a feeling they will leave his "instinctive" abilities alone. Why would they mess with that. Once he is in the game, he may always revert to Tim Tebow and not what the NFL and/or sports experts think he should be. And his way is a winning way.

Northman
06-16-2010, 12:26 PM
I'm sure that his "throwing motion" or "mechanics" will not change drastically. Why take everything that made him successful and flush it.

There will be tweaks here and there just like most QBs learn once they enter the NFL but I have a feeling they will leave his "instinctive" abilities alone. Why would they mess with that. Once he is in the game, he may always revert to Tim Tebow and not what the NFL and/or sports experts think he should be. And his way is a winning way.

Well, his way was a winning way for College. But then there are plenty of winning QB's in college who did not fair quite as well in the pros. The other thing is the defenders he will face at the pro level are far better than he faced in college so thus that is why there would be concern for where he holds the ball. Chances are, he wont be able to change it because its already embedded in his psyche and when he hits the live enviroment he's going to need to react quickly in regards to his reads and ball placement.

Dirk
06-16-2010, 12:28 PM
Well, his way was a winning way for College. But then there are plenty of winning QB's in college who did not fair quite as well in the pros. The other thing is the defenders he will face at the pro level are far better than he faced in college so thus that is why there would be concern for where he holds the ball. Chances are, he wont be able to change it because its already embedded in his psyche and when he hits the live enviroment he's going to need to react quickly in regards to his reads and ball placement.


I agree. But still I think that a lot of what Tebow is about will work in the NFL. With some tweaks but not complete overhaul.

Lonestar
06-16-2010, 12:40 PM
Obviously its going to be hard to change the throwing motion Tebow's been using for YEARS. When it comes down to it, Tebow will do what has to be done when the games on the line. Hopefully Tebow will learn to use his speed to avoid the defense instead of running around like a crazed Mexican.

BTW, this facebook page link is a funny, informative page with all the Tebow facts and will eventually have weekly episodes of "The Tebros".
http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=1096350082#!/Tebros?ref=ts

it may indeed take years of practice to get rid of the instinctual issues , but gradually he will revert less and less to bad habits as practicing the new way will become the norm.

these hacks that write this crap should be smart enough to KNOW this. expecting him to be better just a few months into OTAs is fool hardy and looking for headlines IMO.

Whats more "fans" expecting him to start sooner than next year may also be fool hardy.

but then we do have lots of folks invested in H mongering.

Day1BroncoFan
06-16-2010, 01:03 PM
As long as his throwing motions end in completed passed and first downs I will be happy.

You can't make a duck into a swan.

Lonestar
06-16-2010, 01:21 PM
As long as his throwing motions end in completed passed and first downs I will be happy.

You can't make a duck into a swan. just Super Duck :salute::salute:

dogfish
06-16-2010, 01:44 PM
As long as his throwing motions end in completed passed and first downs I will be happy.

You can't make a duck into a swan.

let alone a raging bull, which is a more appropriate comparison for tebow than a freakin' duck. . . . :lol:

Lonestar
06-16-2010, 02:31 PM
let alone a raging bull, which is a more appropriate comparison for tebow than a freakin' duck. . . . :lol:

Not been on a farm lately I take it.

You don't want to **** with a pissed off Duck. May not be big but they a mean and nasty. And in a group TEAM they are hard to beat.
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Superchop 7
06-16-2010, 03:05 PM
Claussen has some outstanding mechanics.

Just sayin

Day1BroncoFan
06-16-2010, 03:47 PM
let alone a raging bull, which is a more appropriate comparison for tebow than a freakin' duck. . . . :lol:

I don't care if he's a bull, a duck or iron man as long as he moves the sticks and scores TD's.

You don't like my comparison? How about you can't make a dog into a fish... oh wait...

underrated29
06-16-2010, 04:16 PM
Claussen has some outstanding mechanics.

Just sayin



So does Brady Quinn.


Just sayin...

Bosco
06-16-2010, 05:49 PM
I fail to see how "has been slipping into his old throwing motion during some practice reps" equates to "struggling".

Oh, wait. It's Florio. Now I get it.

Broncolingus
06-16-2010, 06:30 PM
Once again...I'm seeing nothing wrong with his mechanics.

http://sportscracklepop.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/03/tebow.jpg

TimTebow15MVP
06-16-2010, 08:58 PM
i wonder if thats because mcd has been the vision of truthfullness since he came here??? :rolleyes:

dude either way ill never believe a guy thats not in practice everyday or breakin down practice film of tebow daily over the coach. if the coaches opinion is bogus what could somebody whose not even in the facility opinion be worth? Lol

arapaho2
06-17-2010, 10:46 AM
dude either way ill never believe a guy thats not in practice everyday or breakin down practice film of tebow daily over the coach. if the coaches opinion is bogus what could somebody whose not even in the facility opinion be worth? Lol


in all honesty if the coaches words cannot be trusted thats a bigger issue than believeing a beat writer reporting about things he's seen or heard from ota's

the point?...you expect some embellishment, some acuality, some leeway, some truths, some made up things from, some for real things from beat writers

you expect nothing but the truth from your head coach..and when he has been caught lieing multiple times...it makes believeig him a little hard

T.K.O.
06-17-2010, 11:15 AM
in all honesty if the coaches words cannot be trusted thats a bigger issue than believeing a beat writer reporting about things he's seen or heard from ota's

the point?...you expect some embellishment, some acuality, some leeway, some truths, some made up things from, some for real things from beat writers

you expect nothing but the truth from your head coach..and when he has been caught lieing multiple times...it makes believeig him a little hard

proof ?
and by the way,things change when you are running a multi-million dollar co. factors change constantly.changing ones mind or direction does not constitute a "lie"
show me one piece of concrete evidence to support your "caught lie-ing multiple times." theory
TIA

and just so you know how things work in the nfl,our own beloved shanahan has recently been "accused" of the same tactics after saying he intended to and looked forward to working with jason cambell....only to trade him to the bottom dwelling raiders weeks later.
you see if you are doing your job as a head coach you have to make choices....did shanahan "LIE" to cambell?i dont believe so.when he found out he could get mcnabb it became evident that he could make a move he believed would benefit the team....so he did !

T.K.O.
06-17-2010, 11:28 AM
Fans should have realistic expectations for rookie QBs
By Pat Kirwan | NFL.com
Senior Analyst








A few months ago it was time to calm down the expectations surrounding the high picks for the 2010 NFL Draft at defensive tackle: Ndamukong Suh and Gerald McCoy.

Both players look like tremendous prospects. McCoy has said that his high-end expectations were to hopefully surpass the numbers posted by Warren Sapp in his rookie year. As a rookie in 1995, Sapp registered three sacks. Suh and McCoy are likely to be successful in the NFL, but not right away.

While expectations for Suh and McCoy are high, much also is expected from the top quarterbacks selected in the draft. Fans have to gain a realistic perspective on rookie quarterbacks who start right away.


There are four rookie quarterbacks who could see real game action in 2010.

» Colt McCoy will see limited action because the Cleveland Browns are close to announcing Jake Delhomme as the starting quarterback.

» Tim Tebow might play, but the Denver Broncos have indicated that Kyle Orton is the starter.

» Jimmy Clausen currently sits behind Matt Moore on the Carolina Panthers' depth chart.

» Sam Bradford, the first overall draft pick, is on the launch pad to start right away for the St. Louis Rams.

The Rams have sustained injuries on the offensive line this spring, as Mark Setterstrom has suffered a torn tricep, rookie Rodger Saffold is limping around with a knee sprain, and Jason Smith is dealing with a serious toe injury. With or without those injuries, Bradford has to be on the field sooner rather than later, and there are some realistic expectations that Rams fans should have for their rookie quarterback. Those sort of expectations should carry over to the fans in Carolina, Cleveland and Denver if the rookies there take the field.

The money down is third down, and here's a look at 13 rookie quarterbacks thrown into the action early and how they faired in the most difficult situation during a game. These 13 quarterbacks were put on the field with the philosophy of learning by doing, not by watching. If one of the four 2010 rookie quarterbacks takes the field, here's a look at realistic expectations for third-down performance.



Performances of rookie quarterbacks on third down
Year Player Team Comp-Att Pct Yds TD/Int/Sck Rating
1995 Kerry Collins Panthers 78-144 54.2 1,105 4/7/10 68.2
1998 Peyton Manning Colts 87-169 51.5 960 4/12/7 47.0
1999 Tim Couch Browns 56-117 47.9 564 0/6/20 40.7
2002 David Carr Texans 70-148 47.3 696 3/8/26 45.3
2002 Joey Harrington Lions 64-138 46.4 730 4/6/1 54.3
2003 Byron Leftwich Jaguars 66-118 55.9 743 5/5/6 71.4
2004 Ben Roethlisberger Steelers 67-105 63.8 894 7/3/15 101.1
2006 Vince Young Titans 48-112 42.9 510 6/5/8 56.0
2008 Joe Flacco Ravens 81-143 56.6 1,090 6/3/15 86.3
2008 Matt Ryan Falcons 92-155 59.4 1,223 5/7/10 76.4
2009 Matthew Stafford Lions 62-116 53.4 671 2/10/9 40.5
2009 Mark Sanchez Jets 70-137 51.1 797 3/6/10 58.0
2009 Josh Freeman Buccaneers 43-88 48.9 537 3/5/7 55.9
Averages: 68-130 52.3 809 4/6/11 61.6








As one college scouting director told me when we discussed these results, "Freeman has a chance to be a pretty good player; better than I thought."

The point here is that a 2010 rookie quarterback should be expected to produce close to a 50 percent completion rate, at least three times as many interceptions as touchdowns, and get sacked once every 18 attempts.

A very interesting result surfaced when looking at last year's rookie quarterbacks vs. the blitz as compared to non-blitz situations. On the surface, you would expect defenses to go after rookie quarterbacks and have excellent results. First, all three youngsters saw more coverage calls than blitz calls. In fact, it worked out to be 63 percent coverage calls and 37 percent blitz calls. The results indicate Stafford and Sanchez were more productive against the pressure calls than the coverage calls. Freeman was slightly better against the coverage calls than the pressure calls, but as a group last year's rookie quarterbacks had three more interceptions per attempt (one every 18 passes) against coverage than against the blitz (one interception every 21 pass attempts).

Bradford seems like a quarterback who will see the blitz and know what to do with the ball. His challenge might come when the defense plays coverage and forces him to stick the ball in very tight places.


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I looked at the three young quarterbacks in the shotgun formation vs. being under center to see how they performed. Most young quarterbacks are coming out of college with a lot of shotgun experience, but then it boils down to who does the shotgun help more, a young quarterback or the defense? Stafford was in the shotgun almost twice as much as he was under center, and Sanchez was just the opposite with close to twice as many throws from under center than in the shotgun formation. Both quarterbacks had a better rating under center than they did out of the shotgun. As for Freeman, he threw from the gun much more than from under center and was more successful in the shotgun. One former NFL head coach with expertise in coaching quarterbacks thought that Bradford would be much better off under center with Steven Jackson behind him threatening the run.

All three rookie quarterbacks relied on their tight end more than the average NFL starter, which reinforces the old adage that a rookie quarterback's best friend is his tight end. The average NFL quarterback is going to complete passes to his tight end about 22 percent of the time, but these rookie quarterbacks as a group completed 30 percent of their passes to tight ends. Will Bradford have the go-to tight end such as Kellen Winslow, Dustin Keller and Brandon Pettigrew (even though he got hurt) that the 2009 rookie quarterbacks had?

No matter which 2010 rookie quarterback takes the field, please lower your expectations and give the young man some breathing room. Remember how McCoy knows Sapp's rookie season numbers? Well, keep in mind Peyton Manning's rookie numbers. He went 3-13 as a starter, threw more interceptions than touchdowns (22 to 28) and only completed 56.7 percent of his passes.

Lonestar
06-17-2010, 11:29 AM
proof ?
and by the way,things change when you are running a multi-million dollar co. factors change constantly.changing ones mind or direction does not constitute a "lie"
show me one piece of concrete evidence to support your "caught lie-ing multiple times." theory
TIA

and just so you know how things work in the nfl,our own beloved shanahan has recently been "accused" of the same tactics after saying he intended to and looked forward to working with jason cambell....only to trade him to the bottom dwelling raiders weeks later.
you see if you are doing your job as a head coach you have to make choices....did shanahan "LIE" to cambell?i dont believe so.when he found out he could get mcnabb it became evident that he could make a move he believed would benefit the team....so he did !

Nothing mikey ever said was anything but mana from heaven for some.

Whereas. Anything out of Joshs (smacking) lips will be forever labled as lies.

Good post but it will fall on deaf ears.Don't bother to try to change a closed mind.
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Denver Native (Carol)
06-17-2010, 11:32 AM
proof ?
and by the way,things change when you are running a multi-million dollar co. factors change constantly.changing ones mind or direction does not constitute a "lie"
show me one piece of concrete evidence to support your "caught lie-ing multiple times." theory
TIA

and just so you know how things work in the nfl,our own beloved shanahan has recently been "accused" of the same tactics after saying he intended to and looked forward to working with jason cambell....only to trade him to the bottom dwelling raiders weeks later.
you see if you are doing your job as a head coach you have to make choices....did shanahan "LIE" to cambell?i dont believe so.when he found out he could get mcnabb it became evident that he could make a move he believed would benefit the team....so he did !

A great post :salute:

T.K.O.
06-17-2010, 11:33 AM
A great post :salute:

thank you

Denver Native (Carol)
06-17-2010, 11:46 AM
Any coach, saying one thing, and then doing something completely different than what he originally said, does not constitute a lie - situations change, and if a coach feels a move would better HIS team, and he can make that move, I would expect that ANY coach would do that, regardless if it contradicts something he previously said.

BroncoWave
06-17-2010, 02:48 PM
in all honesty if the coaches words cannot be trusted thats a bigger issue than believeing a beat writer reporting about things he's seen or heard from ota's

the point?...you expect some embellishment, some acuality, some leeway, some truths, some made up things from, some for real things from beat writers

you expect nothing but the truth from your head coach..and when he has been caught lieing multiple times...it makes believeig him a little hard

Do you know anything at all about professional sports? Serious question.

Because if you did, you would know that every coach lies to the media, every single one. You are VERY naive if you think that isn't the case.

There are just some things it's better that the media didn't know and if that means lying to them as a coach, so be it.

Northman
06-17-2010, 02:59 PM
Any coach, saying one thing, and then doing something completely different than what he originally said, does not constitute a lie - situations change, and if a coach feels a move would better HIS team, and he can make that move, I would expect that ANY coach would do that, regardless if it contradicts something he previously said.

We call that "Spin". :lol:

arapaho2
06-17-2010, 05:18 PM
proof ?
and by the way,things change when you are running a multi-million dollar co. factors change constantly.changing ones mind or direction does not constitute a "lie"
show me one piece of concrete evidence to support your "caught lie-ing multiple times." theory
TIA

and just so you know how things work in the nfl,our own beloved shanahan has recently been "accused" of the same tactics after saying he intended to and looked forward to working with jason cambell....only to trade him to the bottom dwelling raiders weeks later.
you see if you are doing your job as a head coach you have to make choices....did shanahan "LIE" to cambell?i dont believe so.when he found out he could get mcnabb it became evident that he could make a move he believed would benefit the team....so he did !


if you need further proof that josh has lied then im betting he could personaly tell you he outright lied and you wouldnt believe it

as for shannahan..who gives a crap..i dont follow the redskins..dont care what he does...i only care what the coach of the broncos is doing

but for me to listen to our coach come on tv and say he only answered the phone ....then to admit later he did try to trade cutler but was late for the dance...is a lie

there are many of those..if you need more then your not paying attention

maybe in your world a lie is ok...but in mine if im gonna look you in the face and tell you SOMETHING THAT ISNT THE TRUTH...THEN THATS A LIE

you dont have to like it...but it is what it is:coffee:

arapaho2
06-17-2010, 05:32 PM
Any coach, saying one thing, and then doing something completely different than what he originally said, does not constitute a lie - situations change, and if a coach feels a move would better HIS team, and he can make that move, I would expect that ANY coach would do that, regardless if it contradicts something he previously said.


carol if your child insisted he did not break the vase....but later admitted he did, but he did it because he thought it would make your room look better...is that not still a lie?

a lie is a lie is a lie...no matter

so if our coach stated he never ever tried to trade cutler...then later admitted he did attempt to trade him but was "late for the dance"

then he lied...period

i dont care that cutlers gone...cant do nothing about that...but that doesnt change the fact our coach has lied multiple times

need more?....wasnt there a lie about champ and dawk going to josh and asking him to bench scheffler and marshall?...didnt both deny they said it

no matter why he said it...it was still...a lie


i would have more respect for the guy even if i dont agree...if he just stated the truth...he has difficulty doing that..immaturity or disposition?

if he had flat out came on tv and said ...you know what i did try to trade jay for cassel...i thought if i got a qb i knew could run my offense PLus some high picks it would better the team....i should have told jay first....but i am new to this so we are gonna move on

i believe it would have ended there...instead he lies, denies and lies even more

there is something to looking at a man speaking and knowing what he says is the truth

T.K.O.
06-17-2010, 05:34 PM
if you need further proof that josh has lied then im betting he could personaly tell you he outright lied and you wouldnt believe it

as for shannahan..who gives a crap..i dont follow the redskins..dont care what he does...i only care what the coach of the broncos is doing

but for me to listen to our coach come on tv and say he only answered the phone ....then to admit later he did try to trade cutler but was late for the dance...is a lie

there are many of those..if you need more then your not paying attention

maybe in your world a lie is ok...but in mine if im gonna look you in the face and tell you SOMETHING THAT ISNT THE TRUTH...THEN THATS A LIE

you dont have to like it...but it is what it is:coffee:

still WRONG...nice try though, the shanahan example was used to show you that coaches change their minds and other oportunities arise making change possible.anyway,you refuse to see reality so i will let you continue top judge a coaches entire character and philosophy off your percieved idea of what actually happened.enjoy hatin'
so you have given 1 example of a possibility that he lied.
you said multiple lies and had been" caught"
i have yet to see a credible source proving your claims....so i guess in "your world" it's only OK for you to lie:laugh:

OrangeHoof
06-17-2010, 05:45 PM
Ultimately it doesn't matter what the throwing motion looks like. Phillip Rivers anyone? The are two things that matter the most with a throwing motion.

1.) You have to be quick.

2.) You have to be accurate.

Everything after that is gravy.

Bernie Kosar, anyone?

OrangeHoof
06-17-2010, 05:49 PM
McDaniels is a branch from the Belichick tree. Does anyone expect him to be honest about everything? If Tebow is a disaster, McDaniels' own alleged genius takes a hit (see Weis, Charlie). He'll either prove his mettle with Tebow or he's just another assistant who built his reputation on somebody else's victories.

BroncoWave
06-17-2010, 06:36 PM
if you need further proof that josh has lied then im betting he could personaly tell you he outright lied and you wouldnt believe it

as for shannahan..who gives a crap..i dont follow the redskins..dont care what he does...i only care what the coach of the broncos is doing

but for me to listen to our coach come on tv and say he only answered the phone ....then to admit later he did try to trade cutler but was late for the dance...is a lie

there are many of those..if you need more then your not paying attention

maybe in your world a lie is ok...but in mine if im gonna look you in the face and tell you SOMETHING THAT ISNT THE TRUTH...THEN THATS A LIE

you dont have to like it...but it is what it is:coffee:

Please. Unless you've never told a lie in your entire life, get off your freaking moral pedestal.

Like I said, every coach in pro sports has lied to the media.

You don't have to like it...but it is what it is. :coffee:

GGMoogly
06-17-2010, 06:45 PM
Coaches lie to the media. That's just what they do. Maybe not all of the time, but a significant portion. What General would want to give away all of his army's strategic intelligence? I'm not at all bothered by it, that's part of the gig. It's always better to judge by actions...then string the b*****ds up! :protest:

Bosco
06-18-2010, 02:05 AM
proof ?

There isn't. Every "lie" he claims McD has told has been completely discredited.

TimTebow15MVP
06-18-2010, 02:46 AM
mcdaniels never said they asked for them to be benched........they never said that either. they said players needed to be accountable and whatever josh decided was good. josh benched there asses.

TXBRONC
06-18-2010, 09:18 AM
There isn't. Every "lie" he claims McD has told has been completely discredited.

Ah no.

He got caught red handed when we had the fiasco with Cutler. Hell even Bowlen acknowledged that he made some rookie mistakes.

BroncoWave
06-18-2010, 09:50 AM
Ah no.

He got caught red handed when we had the fiasco with Cutler. Hell even Bowlen acknowledged that he made some rookie mistakes.

Who cares? No sane coach is going to come out and SAY he's shopping his star player. You want to drive up his value by making it look like you're not shopping him. McD would have been an idiot to have come out and say he was trying to trade Cutler.

arapaho2
06-18-2010, 10:42 AM
Please. Unless you've never told a lie in your entire life, get off your freaking moral pedestal.

Like I said, every coach in pro sports has lied to the media.

You don't have to like it...but it is what it is. :coffee:

no pedestal..captain hero....simply refuting the claim our coach doesnt lie...he does....some people like that quaility in him...some dont

arapaho2
06-18-2010, 10:52 AM
Who cares? No sane coach is going to come out and SAY he's shopping his star player. You want to drive up his value by making it look like you're not shopping him. McD would have been an idiot to have come out and say he was trying to trade Cutler.


but what sane coach would look his 25 year old probowl franchise qb in the face....and lie to him and expect him to be good with it?

it wasnt the fact he would lose value for cutler...he got two 1st round picks even after all the hoopla...he lied because he got caught in a situation nobody could understand...why do you profess you came to denver to work with cutler then try and trade him for a career backup the next day

as for dropping the value....marshall ring a bell?

what sane coach who knows he's not gonna sign his other 25 year old two time probowl player to a long term contract...drops the value of him by publicaly calling him out, questioning his toughness and willingness to play..when he could easily have labeled him as out due to injury...and kept his mouth shut about it to the media

:coffee:

Elevation inc
06-18-2010, 11:06 AM
really cutler and marshall still!!!!!!! in a thread about tebow for christs sakes...give it a bleepin rest....

marshall has ruined his trade value since the day he came to denver...it was dwindling long before josh called him out for being a baby......you think teams didnt rember the TC stuff, the Dwill incident or his numkerous arrests???? get a grip.....we got 2 2nd rd picks which is more than anyone thought we would get, and he literally jacked chicago for 2 1st rd picks and orton....did he use the picks well???? time will tell...but he didnt trash any value....those players didnt plenty on there own before josh opened his mouth to ruin there value....

i like both players and will root for both of them still...but they aint here no more...give it up and move on.....please...do everyone a favor....

TXBRONC
06-18-2010, 12:07 PM
Who cares? No sane coach is going to come out and SAY he's shopping his star player. You want to drive up his value by making it look like you're not shopping him. McD would have been an idiot to have come out and say he was trying to trade Cutler.

Apparently Bosco does that's why I said his proclaimation is error. You're also mistaken that coaches wouldn't openly shop a star player. But rather than getting off in the weeds point is that all coaches are never completely forthright with the media and sometimes not even with players. And no it wouldn't make him an idiot if he makes it clear he shopping him.

TXBRONC
06-18-2010, 12:11 PM
really cutler and marshall still!!!!!!! in a thread about tebow for christs sakes...give it a bleepin rest....

marshall has ruined his trade value since the day he came to denver...it was dwindling long before josh called him out for being a baby......you think teams didnt rember the TC stuff, the Dwill incident or his numkerous arrests???? get a grip.....we got 2 2nd rd picks which is more than anyone thought we would get, and he literally jacked chicago for 2 1st rd picks and orton....did he use the picks well???? time will tell...but he didnt trash any value....those players didnt plenty on there own before josh opened his mouth to ruin there value....

i like both players and will root for both of them still...but they aint here no more...give it up and move on.....please...do everyone a favor....

I'll want to give an example that's it. I don't want to get off in the weeds.

T.K.O.
06-18-2010, 12:26 PM
soooooo....how bout' that tim tebow ?
looks like he could be the next randall cunningham:beer:

arapaho2
06-18-2010, 12:29 PM
soooooo....how bout' that tim tebow ?
looks like he could be the next randall cunningham:beer:


or the next kordell stewart

Northman
06-18-2010, 12:40 PM
Who cares? No sane coach is going to come out and SAY he's shopping his star player. You want to drive up his value by making it look like you're not shopping him. McD would have been an idiot to have come out and say he was trying to trade Cutler.

Well, he still looked like an idiot but thankfully Jay didnt handle it well and managed to piss off the fanbase more than McDaniels. :lol:

Lonestar
06-18-2010, 12:42 PM
Who cares? No sane coach is going to come out and SAY he's shopping his star player. You want to drive up his value by making it look like you're not shopping him. McD would have been an idiot to have come out and say he was trying to trade Cutler.

Yet NO ONE has to this point proved he was shopping cutler.

Some will use the oft referred to we were to late to the party.

But it does not pprove anything but HE listened to a trade request.

We could and probably does mean by the time TB or the other team mad the purposal that NE and KC alread had a deal in place.

Please disprove that concept WITH actual transcripts other than a presser that said we were to late to the party.

Pretty lame leap of assumption IMO.
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TXBRONC
06-18-2010, 12:49 PM
soooooo....how bout' that tim tebow ?
looks like he could be the next randall cunningham:beer:

Nah but he might end up being a lot like Steve Young which if he does would be better than Cunningham.

Elevation inc
06-18-2010, 01:24 PM
or the next kordell stewart

well he did take pitt to the AFC championship...if tebow does that at least its progress in denver:lol::lol:

Elevation inc
06-18-2010, 01:28 PM
I'll want to give an example that's it. I don't want to get off in the weeds.

:shocked::lol::beer:

T.K.O.
06-18-2010, 02:07 PM
i was watching highlights of cunningham & young on nfln last night and i was thinking....man, that would be fun to have a broncos qb that could move like either of those guys.
if nothing else i think it will be a blast to watch tebow play.i realize josh's focus will have to be on teaching tebow proper mechanics and get him up to speed with the nfl game....but i really hope he does'nt try and make a pure pocket passer out of him and kill his improv skills.
but if he wanted a generic passer i doubt he would have gone after tebow in the first place (we already have one):D

Bosco
06-18-2010, 04:18 PM
Ah no.

He got caught red handed when we had the fiasco with Cutler. Hell even Bowlen acknowledged that he made some rookie mistakes.

We've been through this, and like I said, it's been debunked.

arapaho2
06-18-2010, 04:44 PM
well he did take pitt to the AFC championship...if tebow does that at least its progress in denver:lol::lol:

was that kordell?...or the bus?

in any event..the steelers were not true contenders until they got a true qb in roth

just getting a winning record would be huge in denver

TXBRONC
06-18-2010, 09:02 PM
We've been through this, and like I said, it's been debunked.

And like I said your mistake. You saying it's debunked doesn't make it so.

Bosco
06-18-2010, 09:52 PM
You saying it's debunked doesn't make it so.

No, but the facts do.

TXBRONC
06-18-2010, 10:23 PM
No, but the facts do.

That is correct the facts say you're wrong. :salute:

Bosco
06-18-2010, 11:26 PM
That is correct the facts say you're wrong. :salute:

If you're able to pull off the mental gymnastics needed to delude yourself into believing that, be my guest.

jhildebrand
06-19-2010, 12:32 AM
Clearly SI is deluded and has enough mental gymnasts because they had no problem labeling McDaniels a liar :coffee:

GGMoogly
06-19-2010, 12:51 AM
If Tebow were a gymnast, he would not only score a perfect ten, he'd pummel the pommel horse!:bounce:

Elevation inc
06-19-2010, 01:41 AM
was that kordell?...or the bus?

in any event..the steelers were not true contenders until they got a true qb in roth

just getting a winning record would be huge in denver



lol it was slash....lol

and yes just getting a 9-7 record would be a big deal for us...hasn't happend since what 2006???? :lol:

Bosco
06-19-2010, 12:48 PM
Clearly SI is deluded and has enough mental gymnasts because they had no problem labeling McDaniels a liar :coffee:

Adam Schefter and Peter King, or SI?

Tough call.

TXBRONC
06-19-2010, 01:06 PM
If you're able to pull off the mental gymnastics needed to delude yourself into believing that, be my guest.

What have you provided? Nothing but your own fantasies.

Bosco
06-19-2010, 02:08 PM
What have you provided? Nothing but your own fantasies.

I've documented the facts via well established, credible sources, and done it multiple times.

drewloc
06-19-2010, 03:14 PM
I think that the banter back and forth about who said what, and what was debunked is a little worn. IMO everyone can feel how they like about our team. Some people like what McD did, some don't. In the end, at least we can all agree that we want our team to win right? So who cares if he lied or not, everyone has lied, it's not enough to get into a fight over. I will believe that McD can turn us in the right direction. That does not mean that someone else can't feel differently.

I digress though, as this thread is about Tebow, I was luke warm about the pick. If he turns out to be a good to great QB for us I will be ok with it. I just know that his mechanics are not going to concern me. I don't care if he throws underhand. If we win another Super Bowl, it will be all worth it.

GEM
06-19-2010, 04:16 PM
Oh FFS....would you all grow up and stop with the childish bs. This is like watching kindergartners fight over who was right and who was wrong. :rolleyes:

Northman
06-19-2010, 04:19 PM
That does not mean that someone else can't feel differently.


Unfortuantely mate, there are some who simply cannot accept differing opinions.

Bosco
06-19-2010, 04:47 PM
Unfortuantely mate, there are some who simply cannot accept differing opinions.

Presenting it as an opinion is fine. When you try to present it as fact (when it's not) is where the problem is.

Northman
06-19-2010, 04:49 PM
Presenting it as an opinion is fine. When you try to present it as fact (when it's not) is where the problem is.

Thats what i keep trying to tell you guys but damn is you dont listen. :tsk:

drewloc
06-19-2010, 08:07 PM
Unfortuantely mate, there are some who simply cannot accept differing opinions.

Yeah it does suck sometimes. I look at it like some people aren't as optimistic. That doesn't mean I'm right and they are wrong. I think we can differ on opinions and still be civil/cool with each other. Maybe I'm just living in a happy world listening to my metal. :salute: That said I enjoy the various opinions, I just don't like seeing anyone bicker over it. I know some don't share my outlook, and that's what makes us all different Bronco fans. I still think we are some of the best fans around. :beer:

Northman
06-19-2010, 08:10 PM
Maybe I'm just living in a happy world listening to my metal. :salute:

Indeeeeeed. :beer:

jhildebrand
06-19-2010, 11:48 PM
Adam Schefter and Peter King, or SI?

Tough call.

Peter King is a writer for SI. Schefter no longer has the connections to the team he once had. Oh and by the way, he now works for the network that claimed Shanahan would be named the Chiefs HC within hours.

None of this changes the fact that SI, a major sporting news outlet, had no problem coming out and labeling McDaniels a major liar.

BroncoWave
06-20-2010, 12:01 AM
Oh and by the way, he now works for the network that claimed Shanahan would be named the Chiefs HC within hours.

:lol: Wow, just, wow. I've seen pretty shitty logic used on message boards but I have to say, this one takes the cake.

FanInAZ
06-20-2010, 12:06 AM
I thought this tread was started to talk about Tebow's mechanics. I guess I was wrong.

BroncoWave
06-20-2010, 12:11 AM
I thought this tread was started to talk about Tebow's mechanics. I guess I was wrong.

The next thread on this board that goes more than a couple of pages and stays on topic will be the first! :lol:

Shazam!
06-20-2010, 12:40 AM
Good decision making under fire is far more important than any of his mechanics like throwing motion. I want to see how he handles himself in the rush more than how he holds the ball and throws it.

This is all bullshit without even watching a preseason game.