Is this Dumerville's last year as a Bronco?

[broncofaninfla]

Is this Dumerville's last year as a Bronco?

[Dean]

I definately hope not but if a contract isn't signed this year he might well be gone.

It would mean that the front office doesn't want to spend that type of money so IMO they wouldn't pay what is required to franchise him.

I am willing to bet someone else would. A pass rush means that LBs can shade coverage to where the QB is looking and DBs can play tighter coverage because the QB won't have time to pump fake, reset, and locate another reciever.

[claymore]

Yes, only if he makes it to the pro bowl though.

[Tned]

I don't think so. It might be my heart talking, but I think the Broncos will get him signed.

[camdisco24]

No way. He'll be back with us for years... I hope. If he isn't i'll loose alot of respect for our front office. (Which is already on thin ice in my book)

[Lonestar]

Not sure.

But unless the FT goes away and I do not think the owners will give something like it in the next CBA.

They will FT him and not pay him the 30+million he wants guaranteed.

Strictly a business decision why buy the cow if your getting the milk for free.
Sure he gets top 5 money while being tagged but does not get ridculous money up front.

JMHO

And please do not play the no one will want to come here because of it.

FA will go where the money is. PERIOD or where the best chance of getting a ring or two.

Now I'm waiting for the hysteria to start all of the chicken littles to chime in.
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[broncofaninfla]

I think if he has another 17 or so sacks this season he's gone. Somebody will pay him the money he wants despite his short comings against the run.

[broncobryce]

He will get paid here. As long as he is realistic with what he wants.
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[Northman]

His stats compare with even the best in the league now that he is in the right position. He deserves to be paid but Denver likely wont do it. Shameful.

[jhildebrand]

And please do not play the no one will want to come here because of it.

FA will go where the money is. PERIOD or where the best chance of getting a ring or two.

Well....than the FA's wont come here!

How would any FA view a situation where a player, who is amongst the league's very best at his position, can't be and wont be paid DESPITE playing out his contract and being nothing but class? That in and of itself speaks volumes that the money isn't here!

Sincerely,

Chicken Little :D

[silkamilkamonico]

Depends on if he wants money that will place him among the highest paid OLB's, or that will place him among the highest paid sacking specialists in the NFL.

[Ravage!!!]

Tough question. I don't think McD can afford to let this one go. He's taken quite the hard hits for letting top talent go, and generally because they didn't "fit into the mold of the team player." Doom has. He's done what has been asked, done his job, and towed the company line. If you want the team to follow, then you MUST reward players for being/doing exactly as you ask.

I think we sign him to a long term deal bfore he hits the FA market. I don't think the locker room can continue to take hits of the team's top talent.

[BroncoBJ]

Probably. We need someone to trade next offseason :salute: :elefant:

[TXBRONC]

Right now I'm saying no because the reports we've gotten to this point. Dumervil has been dealing with the Front Office in good faith and I think for the most part the reverse is true as well.

[dogfish]

Is this Dumerville's last year as a Bronco?

i hope not. . . i really feel like it's up in the air, but i've got my fingers crossed that these negotiations we keep hearing about actually lead to something. . . i can't claim to be super-optimistic, though. . . .

[Bosco]

No. He's a RFA until he's accrued 6 years of service, so he's a Bronco through 2011 at least, provided the team doesn't trade him.

[Bosco]

Oh, and for the love of God, can we start spelling his name right? He's been here since 2006 people!

[Lonestar]

Well....than the FA's wont come here!

How would any FA view a situation where a player, who is amongst the league's very best at his position, can't be and wont be paid DESPITE playing out his contract and being nothing but class? That in and of itself speaks volumes that the money isn't here!

Sincerely,

Chicken Little :D

Seriously the FA will come here BCAUSE they will get what they want contract wise up front.

Think about that.

they are mercenaries as UFA first and not woried about 4 or 5 years from now.

Besides now that we have a scouting dept a great GM and HC we will be drafting players not needing to BUY them.

Can't believe you of all posters are invested in that mumbo jumbo abiut not being able to attract UFAs.
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[Lonestar]

No. He's a RFA until he's accrued 6 years of service, so he's a Bronco through 2011 at least, provided the team doesn't trade him.

Even then he us av avialable. For franchise tagging. For two more years.

That will really frost those haters balls.
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[HORSEPOWER 56]

I hope not. I'm really tired of getting excited about home-grown players just to see them leave all the time, especially when they've proven their worth.

[Tned]

I hope not. I'm really tired of getting excited about home-grown players just to see them leave all the time, especially when they've proven their worth.

Hater..... ;)

[Northman]

Yea! Damn you for hating great players man!

[Tned]

Yea! Damn you for hating great players man!

To hell with the Players, I hate Miles. It's the ugliest damn mascot in all of the Champions league...

[dogfish]

****** haters, man-- they're everywhere. . . . :tsk:

[Tned]

****** haters, man-- they're everywhere. . . . :tsk:

In these cold days of winter, my hate is all that keeps me warm at night.... :cool:

[Northman]

I wish Shanahan was here.........







Wait for it......

[Tned]

I wish Shanahan was here.........







Wait for it......

North, I know your butt hurt (I think I just called you gay -- sorry about that), because Mikey and Jaysus are gone, but ya'll need to get over it and realize they aren't come back. Get off Niikey's nut sack and stop hating on the little, evil Josh man. He and X-man are going to turn the Broncos around.

[nevcraw]

Ah what the hell - we can always get a 17 sack guy.. and 100 catch guy and a Hall of Fame CB, a probowl youngster QB and a stretch the field TE..and.. and..

This talent shit grows on trees- don't you all know.. If he doesn't want to take a hometown Discount - even though he's from Miami.. screw him - he's not even a HOF type OLB after his first year of playing the position, anyway...

[Tned]

Ah what the hell - we can always get a 17 sack guy.. and 100 catch guy and a Hall of Fame CB, a probowl youngster QB and a stretch the field TE..and.. and..

This talent shit grows on trees- don't you all know.. If he doesn't want to take a hometown Discount - even though he's from Miami.. screw him - he's not even a HOF type OLB after his first year of playing the position, anyway...

He's a pygmy with a bad attitude. Ya'll need to understand that the broncos can just FT him and lock him up for the next decade or so and he can do nothing about it. Until he learns how to cover WR's like Larry Fitzgerald and rush without his knuckles in the dirt, he isn't worth the sweat off Josh's jock.

[dogfish]

he should be thankful to get an incentive-laden deal-- greedy little weak-in-coverage runt!

[Poet]

He's coming back for more than just this year.

[TXBRONC]

Yea! Damn you for hating great players man!

I've never seen so much hate on one page in all my years of posting. :tsk:

[TXBRONC]

Well....than the FA's wont come here!

How would any FA view a situation where a player, who is amongst the league's very best at his position, can't be and wont be paid DESPITE playing out his contract and being nothing but class? That in and of itself speaks volumes that the money isn't here!

Sincerely,

Chicken Little :D

And here we have the leader of the Hate monger horde but you might want to consider changing your name. Chicken Little just doesn't have the machismo of someone who is going to lead a horde. :D

If and I'm NOT saying the team is but if they dump on Dumervil that will spread like wild fire. Because it would get out what person Dumervil is as well as his production.

[Tned]

he should be thankful to get an incentive-laden deal-- greedy little weak-in-coverage runt!

I think the coaches should have incentive laden contracts. Wink's salary should be based on rushing and passing yards allowed, and TD's given up. Not sacks, because that's a meaningless category, but he should have his salary based on tackles and passes defensed (only by linemen and linebackers).

McDaniels, and I say this only because I am a hater, should get a base salary of $100k or so, and maybe a per diem to cover food and gas, but then have his big bucks come based on wins, and since he is the QB guru, based on QB production.

Further, he should get a bonus based on how well Tebow turns out. If he is starting by next year, and has a postive TD:INT ratio, McD should get a $10 million bonus, pro-rated down, based on the average of the top 5 coaches in the non-NFC East teams.

Yea, that's the way it should be.... :cool:

[TXBRONC]

I think the coaches should have incentive laden contracts. Wink's salary should be based on rushing and passing yards allowed, and TD's given up. Not sacks, because that's a meaningless category, but he should have his salary based on tackles and passes defensed (only by linemen and linebackers).

McDaniels, and I say this only because I am a hater, should get a base salary of $100k or so, and maybe a per diem to cover food and gas, but then have his big bucks come based on wins, and since he is the QB guru, based on QB production.

Further, he should get a bonus based on how well Tebow turns out. If he is starting by next year, and has a postive TD:INT ratio, McD should get a $10 million bonus, pro-rated down, based on the average of the top 5 coaches in the non-NFC East teams.


Yea, that's the way it should be.... :cool:

But what if Tebow doesn't have positive TD:INT ratio does he get fined? ;)

[Tned]

But what if Tebow doesn't have positive TD:INT ratio does he get fined?

He should have his compensation reduced. Think of it like an OLB that can't cover a receiver. If McDaniels can't coach Tebow to a positive TD:INT ratio, and at least 10:1 TD:INT in the Redzone, then it means McDaniels is not a 'complete' coach and therefore should not be paid as an elite or 'complete' head coach. He should get QB coach money rather than head coach money. Until he can take his "hand out of the dirt", so to speak, he shouldn't get the big bucks.

Personally, I think the little, evil man can do the job, so I think he would welcome an incentive based contract.

[TXBRONC]

He should have his compensation reduced. Think of it like an OLB that can't cover a receiver. If McDaniels can't coach Tebow to a positive TD:INT ratio, and at least 10:1 TD:INT in the Redzone, then it means McDaniels is not a 'complete' coach and therefore should not be paid as an elite or 'complete' head coach. He should get QB coach money rather than head coach money. Until he can take his "hand out of the dirt", so to speak, he shouldn't get the big bucks.

Personally, I think the little, evil man can do the job, so I think he would welcome an incentive based contract.

That makes good sense.

I agree I think he would welcome an incentive based contract.

[Ravage!!!]

I think the coaches should have incentive laden contracts. Wink's salary should be based on rushing and passing yards allowed, and TD's given up. Not sacks, because that's a meaningless category, but he should have his salary based on tackles and passes defensed (only by linemen and linebackers).

McDaniels, and I say this only because I am a hater, should get a base salary of $100k or so, and maybe a per diem to cover food and gas, but then have his big bucks come based on wins, and since he is the QB guru, based on QB production.

Further, he should get a bonus based on how well Tebow turns out. If he is starting by next year, and has a postive TD:INT ratio, McD should get a $10 million bonus, pro-rated down, based on the average of the top 5 coaches in the non-NFC East teams.

Yea, that's the way it should be.... :cool:


I nominate this post to be JR's signature! :salute:

[BroncoWave]

Who's Dumerville? :confused:

[dogfish]

He should have his compensation reduced. Think of it like an OLB that can't cover a receiver. If McDaniels can't coach Tebow to a positive TD:INT ratio, and at least 10:1 TD:INT in the Redzone, then it means McDaniels is not a 'complete' coach and therefore should not be paid as an elite or 'complete' head coach. He should get QB coach money rather than head coach money. Until he can take his "hand out of the dirt", so to speak, he shouldn't get the big bucks.

Personally, I think the little, evil man can do the job, so I think he would welcome an incentive based contract.

good thinking, T. . . that'll really protect the TEAM in case he gets lazy and doesn't coach his best once he's gotten paid. . . he's not as good as bill belichick, no way he deserves to get paid like him. . .

[jhildebrand]

Seriously the FA will come here BCAUSE they will get what they want contract wise up front.

Think about that.

they are mercenaries as UFA first and not woried about 4 or 5 years from now.

Besides now that we have a scouting dept a great GM and HC we will be drafting players not needing to BUY them.

Can't believe you of all posters are invested in that mumbo jumbo abiut not being able to attract UFAs.
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I know and believe FA's go where the cash is. A lot go to a team where they can expect to win.

However, do you really think a FA will look at the Broncos as willing to shell out premium cash when they concurrently stiffed one of their own? If the Broncos aren't willing to get Dumervil the just contract he deserves, why would a FA expect it? Any FA that comes here and honors and outperforms THEIR ENTIRE contract can look no FURTHER than the Dumervil negotiations to see just how they will be treated (unless they are a former Patriot :rolleyes:) Also, at some point teams earn the cheap label and have to pay a premium just to get a FA to town. Is that what you want?

Besides, FA's are besides the point. All the best teams grow their own especially on the D. Look at last year's playoff contenders and you wont see a team comprised of FA's (especially on D) as much as the Broncos have relied on it.

Also, the main excuse for McDaniels is he inherited a team full of holes. At what point does that lose credibility due to the holes he himself is creating? :confused:

[jhildebrand]

And here we have the leader of the Hate monger horde but you might want to consider changing your name. Chicken Little just doesn't have the machismo of someone who is going to lead a horde. :D

If and I'm NOT saying the team is but if they dump on Dumervil that will spread like wild fire. Because it would get out what person Dumervil is as well as his production.

I didn't realize i was the "leader" and a hate monger but hey! If the moniker fits and that is how I am viewed, then so be it!

However, make NO MISTAKE about it, the force of the Chicken Little is fierce! :laugh:

[jhildebrand]

At what point does McD and Xanders get heat for this? I do recall a quote, early in the offseason, that they were going to take care of Dumervil. I guess they don't have to be accountable to their word?

[TXBRONC]

I didn't realize i was the "leader" and a hate monger but hey! If the moniker fits and that is how I am viewed, then so be it!

However, make NO MISTAKE about it, the force of the Chicken Little is fierce! :laugh:

Chicken power? :lol:

[Bosco]

At what point does McD and Xanders get heat for this? I do recall a quote, early in the offseason, that they were going to take care of Dumervil. I guess they don't have to be accountable to their word?

They've been in negotiations with Dumervil for sometime now. I'd say they've kept their promise.

[Lonestar]

I know and believe FA's go where the cash is. A lot go to a team where they can expect to win.

However, do you really think a FA will look at the Broncos as willing to shell out premium cash when they concurrently stiffed one of their own? If the Broncos aren't willing to get Dumervil the just contract he deserves, why would a FA expect it? Any FA that comes here and honors and outperforms THEIR ENTIRE contract can look no FURTHER than the Dumervil negotiations to see just how they will be treated (unless they are a former Patriot :rolleyes:) Also, at some point teams earn the cheap label and have to pay a premium just to get a FA to town. Is that what you want?

Besides, FA's are besides the point. All the best teams grow their own especially on the D. Look at last year's playoff contenders and you wont see a team comprised of FA's (especially on D) as much as the Broncos have relied on it.

Also, the main excuse for McDaniels is he inherited a team full of holes. At what point does that lose credibility due to the holes he himself is creating? :confused:


the only reason that DEN currently had to rely on FA for D because they frankly had almost no one that fit into the 3-4 scheme that is not o say that that had much for the 4-3 scheme either.

BUT if Josh follows the NE model they will be drafting kids HIGH on day one to fill those spots about to be vacated by retirements or rookie contracts about to expire. It may take a few years until this happens BUT I have little doubt that it will.

I suspect they would have done so this year IF the DL coaches did not think that Bajer was just raw and needed another year to learn from a master. Same applies to M Thomas and maybe Mc Bean there is talent there that has not been coached in years past.

I'm willing to give the staff a year to coach them up or spend day one picks on some one that can play.

As far as UFA not wanting to come here if the Green is correct they will come and not worry about 4 years from then.

All of the hoopla about veterans wanting to come here to go to club mikey well I think we can all see where that got us.

Build via the draft and supplement via FA, just the opposite of mikeys MO .

mikey was so worried about the O that D never got any attention. IMHO

[jhildebrand]

BUT if Josh follows the NE model they will be drafting kids HIGH on day one to fill those spots

mikey was so worried about the O that D never got any attention. IMHO

And how many picks has McD used on day one for the D? :confused:

[Lonestar]

At what point does McD and Xanders get heat for this? I do recall a quote, early in the offseason, that they were going to take care of Dumervil. I guess they don't have to be accountable to their word?



So how about we worry about this when it does not happen.

Everyone is pissed that they do not want to sell the farm to give him world class money, not KNOW IF they are talking in good faith. or they would not say so. and Doom would not have signed the tender.



much ado about nothing at this point.

[jhildebrand]

They've been in negotiations with Dumervil for sometime now. I'd say they've kept their promise.

Negotiations and a done deal are two separate things.

Ben Harper said it best: There are good deeds and good intentions and they are as far apart as....

[Bosco]

Negotiations and a done deal are two separate things.

Ben Harper said it best: There are good deeds and good intentions and they are as far apart as....

Except there are two sides to this deal.

[jhildebrand]

So how about we worry about this when it does not happen.

Everyone is pissed that they do not want to sell the farm to give him world class money, not KNOW IF they are talking in good faith. or they would not say so. and Doom would not have signed the tender.



much ado about nothing at this point.

You are the only one I hear crying about "selling the farm." Even then, I have yet to hear Dumervil's camp even utter one word about a top 5 deal.

[jhildebrand]

Except there are two sides to this deal.

And somehow the Broncos didn't think there were two sides of the deal when they made their comments? :confused:

[Lonestar]

And how many picks has McD used on day one for the D? :confused:


so far none but if you read the post you will see why.


SO far his need was to get the O going again. IIRC 40% of the OLINE was replaced this year with players that can actually block.

They needed a WR got TWO that just may be better than the ONE they lost and how can you pass on Tebow?

So how about we worry about the D when the FA they had to get do not work out or retire.

[jhildebrand]

so far none but if you read the post you will see why.



WRONG! AYERS!



SO far his need was to get the O going again. IIRC 40% of the OLINE was replaced this year with players that can actually block.

They needed a WR got TWO that just may be better than the ONE they lost and how can you pass on Tebow?



Get the O going again? :confused: The same 08 O that he said he would improve immediately yet they declined in every category!

Oh and the D that went from 20 something in the league to #1 for much of the year and finished 7th? You aren't making sense JR.

So he gets credit for replacing a WR that he ran out of town? :confused: He gets credit for filling a hole he created :lol:


So how about we worry about the D when the FA they had to get do not work out or retire.

Now you are talking in circles! This is the VERY thing you criticise Shanahan for (as did I) yet now you are touting it as a legitimate way to build a team.

Again, look at the playoff field from 09. Those teams grew their own!

[Lonestar]

You are the only one I hear crying about "selling the farm." Even then, I have yet to hear Dumervil's camp even utter one word about a top 5 deal.

Chicken Little says: They see me rollin...they hatin :lol:

well IIRC one of the Post writers brought up 65 mil with 40 guaranteed now if that is not correct sorry about that.


that is what I call selling the farm, breaking the bank, whatever you want to call it.

NOW to be fair Neither side has said anything but they are working on getting a deal done.



as I have said many times I would not buy the cow if the milk is free, but if Josh thinks he is worth a nut buster contract then well I'll deal with it.

But I'm thinking it will not be a nut buster..

[Lonestar]

WRONG! AYERS!





Get the O going again? :confused: The same 08 O that he said he would improve immediately yet they declined in every category!

Oh and the D that went from 20 something in the league to #1 for much of the year and finished 7th? You aren't making sense JR.

So he gets credit for replacing a WR that he ran out of town? :confused: He gets credit for filling a hole he created :lol:



Now you are talking in circles! This is the VERY thing you criticise Shanahan for (as did I) yet now you are touting it as a legitimate way to build a team.

Again, look at the playoff field from 09. Those teams grew their own!
sorry I was thinking this year and not last and so they did get a project for the D so what are you whining about.

I guess your expectations for last years team were a lot higher than mine.

The logical mind says that replacing 35 out of 53 players, changing schemes on both sides of the LOS, hiring a complete new staff, teaching the staff the scheme so they can teach the players the scheme was not going to produce a playoff team last year.

We all saw that nolan did a great job at organizing the D but he choose poorly for players field is not a viable every down NT but he must have assured Josh that he was Because he was his choice. (not that there were a lot of options out there).

I have never been OK with building a team that is predominately based on FA, never been never will.

But that said any NT we might have taken would not have started this year anyway.

From what I have heard the NEW DC and staff like what they have in Baker and Thomas in particular and think they will be stars down the road given time to develop. So while they were not drafted by Josh Et al they are still building with them.

Ayers as you correctly pointed out was a Draft choice and hopefully he can convert to OLB and while we are talking converting Moss appears to be coming along also.

So I see a lot of building via the draft, they way it should be done. It is just not produced starters as of yet.

Now I hope that I have answered your questions in this because it is approaching my bed time and I will be going to mobile mode very shortly. Actually I'm going to watch some TV because this place is not worth the time anymore with all the naysaying haters.


now probably time to get back to topic..

:focus:

[GEM]

sorry I was thinking this year and not last and so they did get a project for the D so what are you whining about.

I guess your expectations for last years team were a lot higher than mine.

The logical mind says that replacing 35 out of 53 players, changing schemes on both sides of the LOS, hiring a complete new staff, teaching the staff the scheme so they can teach the players the scheme was not going to produce a playoff team last year.

We all saw that nolan did a great job at organizing the D but he choose poorly for players field is not a viable every down NT but he must have assured Josh that he was Because he was his choice. (not that there were a lot of options out there).

I have never been OK with building a team that is predominately based on FA, never been never will.

But that said any NT we might have taken would not have started this year anyway.

From what I have heard the NEW DC and staff like what they have in Baker and Thomas in particular and think they will be stars down the road given time to develop. So while they were not drafted by Josh Et al they are still building with them.

Ayers as you correctly pointed out was a Draft choice and hopefully he can convert to OLB and while we are talking converting Moss appears to be coming along also.

So I see a lot of building via the draft, they way it should be done. It is just not produced starters as of yet.

Now I hope that I have answered your questions in this because it is approaching my bed time and I will be going to mobile mode very shortly. Actually I'm going to watch some TV because this place is not worth the time anymore with all the naysaying haters.



now probably time to get back to topic..

:focus:

JR...many here say the same about you as of late. Why is your opinion of everyone else so much more important, and more to the point, true? Your opinion is as valuable as everyone else's and sitting back the last few days and watching you attack others by belittling them with silly names and making others to feel low because they don't share opinions with you is getting sadder to watch by the day.

I hate to say this, but just as you are sick of "haters" some are sick of you all out love fest. You're all entitled to your opinion, but you don't have the right to belittle others or call them silly names because their opinion doesn't match yours.

This place is no different than it has ever been or Mania ever was. There's always 2 sides. This is no more vitriol than Mania days of Jake vs. Jay. So please stop with the downing this place or if you are really unhappy, take a break and come back when you've realized that this is a message board of OPINIONS. No one's OPINION is right and no one's OPINION is wrong. No one knows the outcome of anything.

Also, the past few posts have been on topic, so I don't think you need to post a "back on topic"....when in actuality it was you that took it slightly off topic with the personal names, chicken little.

JMHO of course.

[Lonestar]

JR...many here say the same about you as of late. Why is your opinion of everyone else so much more important, and more to the point, true? Your opinion is as valuable as everyone else's and sitting back the last few days and watching you attack others by belittling them with silly names and making others to feel low because they don't share opinions with you is getting sadder to watch by the day.

I hate to say this, but just as you are sick of "haters" some are sick of you all out love fest. You're all entitled to your opinion, but you don't have the right to belittle others or call them silly names because their opinion doesn't match yours.

This place is no different than it has ever been or Mania ever was. There's always 2 sides. This is no more vitriol than Mania days of Jake vs. Jay. So please stop with the downing this place or if you are really unhappy, take a break and come back when you've realized that this is a message board of OPINIONS. No one's OPINION is right and no one's OPINION is wrong. No one knows the outcome of anything.

Also, the past few posts have been on topic, so I don't think you need to post a "back on topic"....when in actuality it was you that took it slightly off topic with the personal names, chicken little.

JMHO of course.



lets see if I have this correct.

name of thread
Is this Dumerville's last year as a Bronco?

mine or several other were nothing to do with the topic.

therefore I said back to topic.

IMHO this place has become very hateful towards the new Head coach staff and FO.

And for mostly NO reason, other than they have not signed Doom to a whooper contract.

That seems to be the Hate of the day.

Not sure what it will be tomorrow. Anyway thanks for your thoughts.

I realize that some do not see it because they are so invested in their POV, Like always I have a different POV and have had since Josh came on board.

I'm willing to give him time to turn the program around, while many want to see instant results.

They will be disappointed for awhile if they expect the playoffs again this year.

Night night.

[Bosco]

And somehow the Broncos didn't think there were two sides of the deal when they made their comments? :confused:

Come on now dude. I may disagree with alot of your football takes, but I know you have more common sense than that.

[Broncolingus]

CBA really mucks this up - for Doom and Bronco's Inc. - so there are so many variables it's not even funny.

Recall Shanny on Portis with much of the same discussion going as this - and without the CBA issues at that time - 'We couldn't pay him the money he wanted/could get.' (...of course, getting Bailey softened Portis' departure somewhat, eh?...)

Bottom line, it's tough. I'm not sure it's always an organizations or players 'greed' that's the reason things don't work out...

...sometimes I think teams just have to make hard choices with the players/payroll with the cap and limited $$$, just as players need to make as much $$$ as possible with the limited time in their careers.

JMO...

Anyway, I voted no only to be an optomist...

...and I still remain impressed with Doom's professionalism during this entire process.

(...too bad he couldn't have taught that to a few recently departed players...)

[GEM]

lets see if I have this correct.

name of thread
Is this Dumerville's last year as a Bronco?

mine or several other were nothing to do with the topic.

therefore I said back to topic.

IMHO this place has become very hateful towards the new Head coach staff and FO.

And for mostly NO reason, other than they have not signed Doom to a whooper contract.

That seems to be the Hate of the day.

Not sure what it will be tomorrow. Anyway thanks for your thoughts.

I realize that some do not see it because they are so invested in their POV, Like always I have a different POV and have had since Josh came on board.

I'm willing to give him time to turn the program around, while many want to see instant results.

They will be disappointed for awhile if they expect the playoffs again this year.

Night night.

All I can say to that is....pot, meet kettle. You are so blinded by your own POV that no one is allowed another opinion without being labeled a hater or a chicken little.

Again, this is no different than Jake vs. Jay. This isn't something new.

[Dirk]

:pop2:

[TXBRONC]

CBA really mucks this up - for Doom and Bronco's Inc. - so there are so many variables it's not even funny.

Recall Shanny on Portis with much of the same discussion going as this - and without the CBA issues at that time - 'We couldn't pay him the money he wanted/could get.' (...of course, getting Bailey softened Portis' departure somewhat, eh?...)

Bottom line, it's tough. I'm not sure it's always an organizations or players 'greed' that's the reason things don't work out...

...sometimes I think teams just have to make hard choices with the players/payroll with the cap and limited $$$, just as players need to make as much $$$ as possible with the limited time in their careers.

JMO...

Anyway, I voted no only to be an optomist...

...and I still remain impressed with Doom's professionalism during this entire process.

(...too bad he couldn't have taught that to a few recently departed players...)

I just don't think the lack of a CBA is that much of a obstacle. Peppers who didn't have as good of year as Dumervil and yet he got $38 million this year. If both sides want it done it will get done.

[TXBRONC]

:pop2:

I hope you have something to drink with that pop corn so that you don't choke. :D

[Dirk]

:pepsi: :rolleyes: :lol:

[Broncolingus]

I just don't think the lack of a CBA is that much of a obstacle. Peppers who didn't have as good of year as Dumervil and yet he got $38 million this year. If both sides want it done it will get done.

I don't disagree at all with ya, TX...:salute:

In fact, I think your last sentence is right on.

...I just don't get the vibe in this case (and know you were going there either) that Denver is trying to 'low-ball' or disrespect Doom or treat him poorly, and think the CBA issues make these types of situations generally a little more complicated this year vs. previous.

[Lonestar]

CBA really mucks this up - for Doom and Bronco's Inc. - so there are so many variables it's not even funny.

Recall Shanny on Portis with much of the same discussion going as this - and without the CBA issues at that time - 'We couldn't pay him the money he wanted/could get.' (...of course, getting Bailey softened Portis' departure somewhat, eh?...)

Bottom line, it's tough. I'm not sure it's always an organizations or players 'greed' that's the reason things don't work out...

...sometimes I think teams just have to make hard choices with the players/payroll with the cap and limited $$$, just as players need to make as much $$$ as possible with the limited time in their careers.

JMO...

Anyway, I voted no only to be an optomist...

...and I still remain impressed with Doom's professionalism during this entire process.

(...too bad he couldn't have taught that to a few recently departed players...)


it will be a tough call on HOW big the team will go and how "small" the player will take.

After all what is the difference in 65 mil and 45 million after taxes not a whole hell of a lot.;)

[jhildebrand]

Come on now dude. I may disagree with alot of your football takes, but I know you have more common sense than that.

Fair enough, Bosco. With all due respect, you pointing out the fact there are two sides was a bit silly, IMHO for the simple fact that there were two sides to the negotiating when there comments were originally made.

Furthermore, nobody forced McDaniels and company to offer up any quote about wrapping up Dumervil's contract early on. They did that on their on volition. So that tells me one of two things:

1. They didn't have any clue how far apart the two sides were when they made their comments which, in and of itself, would be a major concern.

or

2. They have no real interest in getting the deal done (as TX pointed out) and just want something to sell to the fans that they tried

[jhildebrand]

But that said any NT we might have taken would not have started this year anyway.


I am not so sure I buy that JRWIZ. In 09 plenty of NT/DT were taken late and produced well for their teams. Those names include: Roy Miller, Darrell Scott, Ron Brace, Myron Pryor, Sammie Lee Hill, etc... Will there be studs? Not likely but you never know!

[Lonestar]

[QUOTE=jhildebrand;995875]I am not so sure I buy that JRWIZ. In 09 plenty of NT/DT were taken late and produced well for their teams. Those names include: Roy Miller, Darrell Scott, Ron Brace, Myron Pryor, Sammie Lee Hill, etc... Will there be studs? Not likely but you never know!






I do not drink beer it gives me headaches must be the hops or something.

As for NT I really believe that Nolan wanted his boy to get the reps and thought he could do the job therefore the reason we passed on andy NTS later in the draft. I liked brace thought he would have done a good to great job, obviously Billy thought that also and he used him to get a better deal with wilfork. (just good business)



Anyway I rarely do not post but from the mobile part any more using it while I drive (stop lights and such) or are away from the house. So I do not see nor can I HI-5 folks much anymore from that area.

Keep the faith this team will be better this coming year after one year of battlefield experience under their belts.

[jhildebrand]

I do not drink beer it gives me headaches must be the hops or something.

As for NT I really believe that Nolan wanted his boy to get the reps and thought he could do the job therefore the reason we passed on andy NTS later in the draft. I liked brace thought he would have done a good to great job, obviously Billy thought that also and he used him to get a better deal with wilfork. (just good business)


Anyway I rarely do not post but from the mobile part any more using it while I drive (stop lights and such) or are away from the house. So I do not see nor can I HI-5 folks much anymore from that area.

Keep the faith this team will be better this coming year after one year of battlefield experience under their belts.

Fair enough! :pepsi: Hopefully that will keep you from having a headache :D

Just know that I am not "against" the HC or FO. I guess I might be used to more straight forward talk from those departments than what we get now.

At the end of the day they are also Broncos and I root for all Broncos!

[TXBRONC]

As for NT I really believe that Nolan wanted his boy to get the reps and thought he could do the job therefore the reason we passed on andy NTS later in the draft.

We didn't pass on a nose tackle because of Nolan we passed on one because the guy who was running the draft (McDaniels) chose not to take one.

If that's the case then there is no way to explain why we passed on one this year Nolan was long gone before the draft. It's not a criticism, a put down, or a slam it's just a fact.

Finally for the leader of the Hate Monger Horde a.k.a Chicken Little.

WAR CHICKEN! (TX lifts a bucket of KFC in the air as a sign of solidarity.) :lol:

[hamrob]

He's not worth that cash. He's one dimensional. I'd also have to take a look at how many multiple sack games he's had and whether they have come against top competition.

I just don't think he's the equivalent of Champ Bailey 6yrs ago!

[Lonestar]

He's not worth that cash. He's one dimensional. I'd also have to take a look at how many multiple sack games he's had and whether they have come against top competition.

I just don't think he's the equivalent of Champ Bailey 6yrs ago!

If anyone looks at it with a logical EYE they see the same thing.

But most would spend whatever it takes to keep a pass rushing OLB that is playing a wideout DE.

Good post.
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[TXBRONC]

I don't disagree at all with ya, TX...:salute:

In fact, I think your last sentence is right on.

...I just don't get the vibe in this case (and know you were going there either) that Denver is trying to 'low-ball' or disrespect Doom or treat him poorly, and think the CBA issues make these types of situations generally a little more complicated this year vs. previous.

I'm not going to accuse the Front Office of low balling Dumervil since I have no idea what's going on behind close doors. However I'm very willing to go out on a limb and say that I don't think the Front Office is foolish enough to offer him an incentive based contract. That Imho would send a horrible message to the rest of the team and potential free agents down the road.

[Broncolingus]

I'm not going accuse the Front Office of low balling Dumervil since I have no idea what's going on behind close doors. However I'm very willing to go out on a limb and say that I don't the Front Office is foolish enough to offer him an incentive based contract. That Imho would send a horrible message to the rest of the team and potential free agents down the road.

Yup...with ya on that one too.

[Bosco]

We didn't pass on a nose tackle because of Nolan we passed on one because the guy who was running the draft (McDaniels) chose not to take one. Because it was a poor draft for 3-4 linemen. The only really good one (Raji) we tried to trade up for and his college teammate (Brace) was a pretty big overpick to a team that had that luxury.


If that's the case then there is no way to explain why we passed on one this year Nolan was long gone before the draft. It's not a criticism, a put down, or a slam it's just a fact. We passed on a nose tackle because we have an elite level veteran backed up by a serviceable somewhat veteran who is still young, who is backed up by a highly touted 2nd year developmental player.

NT is locked up for the next 1-3 years at least, depending on how long Williams lasts and/or how well Baker steps up.

[TXBRONC]

Fair enough! :pepsi: Hopefully that will keep you from having a headache :D

Just know that I am not "against" the HC or FO. I guess I might be used to more straight forward talk from those departments than what we get now.

At the end of the day they are also Broncos and I root for all Broncos!

Even the guy who washes the jocks? :suspicious:

[Lonestar]

Because it was a poor draft for 3-4 linemen. The only really good one (Raji) we tried to trade up for and his college teammate (Brace) was a pretty big overpick to a team that had that luxury.

We passed on a nose tackle because we have an elite level veteran backed up by a serviceable somewhat veteran who is still young, who is backed up by a highly touted 2nd year developmental player.

NT is locked up for the next 1-3 years at least, depending on how long Williams lasts and/or how well Baker steps up.

Great response to a post I have on IGGY.

Everyone sEems to believe that Josh is the only guy that makes Draft/FA decisions.

I suspect that he did in fact rely heavily on his assistant coaches on grading players and NO one will ever convince me that Nolanhad pretty much free rein on personnel decisions as well as on how he wanted to build the 3-4 scheme. I'm pretty sure that fields would have been WAY down the wish list for any other DC or DL coach as our starter. The ONLY reason he was brought on board was because he played for Nolan in SFO THE ONLY REASON.

While he played a decent game he flat is not strong enuff to be an effective NT without solid to great talent around him in the other 6 front 7 defenders. Dallas can get away with a smaller guy because he has better players around him. He is an exception to the HUGE NT rule of thumb.

Now Nolan was allowed to leave for many reasons IMO one of which was his poor choice for NT. As ultimately it was a poor one.

You can tell that by the most instantanious signing of the guys we got when FA started. Our LOS presence last year was poor.

Again great rebuttal.
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[GEM]

Great response to a post I have on IGGY.

Everyone sEems to believe that Josh is the only guy that makes Draft/FA decisions.

I suspect that he did in fact rely heavily on his assistant coaches on grading players and NO one will ever convince me that Nolanhad pretty much free rein on personnel decisions as well as on how he wanted to build the 3-4 scheme. I'm pretty sure that fields would have been WAY down the wish list for any other DC or DL coach as our starter. The ONLY reason he was brought on board was because he played for Nolan in SFO THE ONLY REASON.

While he played a decent game he flat is not strong enuff to be an effective NT without solid to great talent around him in the other 6 front 7 defenders. Dallas can get away with a smaller guy because he has better players around him. He is an exception to the HUGE NT rule of thumb.

Now Nolan was allowed to leave for many reasons IMO one of which was his poor choice for NT. As ultimately it was a poor one.

You can tell that by the most instantanious signing of the guys we got when FA started. Our LOS presence last year was poor.

Again great rebuttal.
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JR, seriously, enough with the iggy comments. :rolleyes: You drop it in almost every post. I think by now, the world knows you have half the board on iggy and most don't seem to care.

[Lonestar]

JR, seriously, enough with the iggy comments. :rolleyes: You drop it in almost every post. I think by now, the world knows you have half the board on iggy and most don't seem to care.

Well if the board consists with 8 memebers your 50% would be about correct.

Besides I've only used it a few times.

Frankly I'd have have a few more on iggy but can't do to Vbulletin rules.

Not sure why your even concerned with this.
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[broncogirl7]

Sadly, if things don't change for the better, I believe this will be Dumervil's last year a Bronco before the Shanahan grabs him up. ... JMHO... no facts to back it up, only a prediction.

[TXBRONC]

Because it was a poor draft for 3-4 linemen. The only really good one (Raji) we tried to trade up for and his college teammate (Brace) was a pretty big overpick to a team that had that luxury.

We passed on a nose tackle because we have an elite level veteran backed up by a serviceable somewhat veteran who is still young, who is backed up by a highly touted 2nd year developmental player.

NT is locked up for the next 1-3 years at least, depending on how long Williams lasts and/or how well Baker steps up.

That pure speculation on your part. There was a rumor that Denver might have tried to move up but nothing to confirm it. So what if Brace was an overreach for New England we still had still had shot to get him if McDaniels had been inclined to do so and he wasn't. That's the plain and simple truth of the matter.

Again it's speculation that Jamal will return to an elite level. He's 34 years age may not return to an elite level. If he returns to 80 to 90% of what he once was that would be great but evenso will he will more than likely be in a heavy rotation. Finally, one to three years is not comforting. None of us have any idea if we'll even be a position to draft an elite nose should have we need to do that because Baker doesn't develop into one. Besides that the elite nose tackles usually go in the top ten.

That aside, the point you missed is that McDaniels is the one who made the choices not Nolan or any other coach or front office personnel. It's not criticism it's fact. I'll also give him this it takes a big brass pair to make the moves that he's made, more power to him if these players develop into solid contributors.

[TXBRONC]

Sadly, if things don't change for the better, I believe this will be Dumervil's last year a Bronco before the Shanahan grabs him up. ... JMHO... no facts to back it up, only a prediction.

If negotiations break off for whatever reason then that's bad sign. However they are talking so that's a good sign.

[Broncolingus]

JR, seriously, enough with the iggy comments. :rolleyes: You drop it in almost every post. I think by now, the world knows you have half the board on iggy and most don't seem to care.

Iggy?

http://echostains.files.wordpress.com/2009/12/iggy-pop-4.jpg

:D

[TXBRONC]

Iggy?

http://echostains.files.wordpress.com/2009/12/iggy-pop-4.jpg

:D

Iggy is as old as dirt, maybe even a few days older. :shocked:

[LTC Pain]

If negotiations break off for whatever reason then that's bad sign. However as their talking that's a good sign.

Agreed! What I don't agree with is T.K.O.'s usage of "standoff" as related to Doom's new contract negotiations. "Standoff" indicates negotiations are at a standstill because both sides are standing pat. Nothing we've read says that's the case.

[T.K.O.]

Agreed! What I don't agree with is T.K.O.'s usage of "standoff" as related to Doom's new contract negotiations. "Standoff" indicates negotiations are at a standstill because both sides are standing pat. Nothing we've read says that's the case.

i guess "stand off" was too strong.i simply meant that the fact they have not come to an agreement meant signing the tender was a logical step.
on the other hand if there was no sort of a "stand off" going on the deal would be done.
i did'nt mean t:salute:o imply things were going badly,just that they must be somewhat apart in their negotiations

[jhildebrand]

So what if Brace was an overreach for New England

What difference does it make if it is a reach? :confused: This is the thing that gets me the most: the double standard!

Don't get Brace or a real NT because it might be a reach all while praising the incredible reach that has been: Alphonso Smith, Richard Quinn, and Tim Tebow. Shoot, some say Moreno and Ayers were a reach as well.

If it is a position of need and you can get the guy, why not?

[Broncolingus]

Iggy is as old as dirt, maybe even a few days older. :shocked:

NS, eh?

He actually look better than normal in that pic...

Scary...

[TXBRONC]

What difference does it make if it is a reach? :confused: This is the thing that gets me the most: the double standard!

Don't get Brace or a real NT because it might be a reach all while praising the incredible reach that has been: Alphonso Smith, Richard Quinn, and Tim Tebow. Shoot, some say Moreno and Ayers were a reach as well.

If it is a position of need and you can get the guy, why not?

I was just using Bosco's words, but that's not how feel about it. We had chance to get Brace but we didn't.

[Lonestar]

What difference does it make if it is a reach? :confused: This is the thing that gets me the most: the double standard!

Don't get Brace or a real NT because it might be a reach all while praising the incredible reach that has been: Alphonso Smith, Richard Quinn, and Tim Tebow. Shoot, some say Moreno and Ayers were a reach as well.

If it is a position of need and you can get the guy, why not?\\

I have always been a proponent if YOU need a player or position it is never a reach if you take that spot unless of course you take a bonafide 3rd or 4th rounder with a top 20 pick.

Now this year Joshed moving around like a cat on a hot tin roof picking up picks and using them at will to get the players HE wanted, I have to say I was impressed.

In years past when our pick was announced most of the announcers would say something to the effect WHO?

Then in 06 it changed a bit.

Now with Josh if your a fan of the draft you will never know what the hell is going to happen.

Do not know how many times I got up and left the TV when I thought we would be drafting much later only to have him pop up and grab someone. After the last pick we had late in the 6th IIRC I turn the TV off and went about my business only to miss the late trade and the two 7th rounders.

I'm loving draft days cause you never know what he is going to do.

[jhildebrand]

I was just using Bosco's words, but that's not how feel about it. We had chance to get Brace but we didn't.

I knew what you were saying. I just thought I could dovetail off your comment a bit. :salute:

[TXBRONC]

I knew what you were saying. I just thought I could dovetail off your comment a bit. :salute:

Gotcha. :beer: