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LoyalSoldier
05-29-2008, 02:43 PM
http://www.sportsline.com/nfl/story/10843371


Denver Broncos

Overrated: S John Lynch. You can put him in this spot every year, even if his reputation has declined some. There are those who still worship his game.

Underrated: LB D.J. Williams. He has bounced around the linebacker spots, but has stayed steady. He had 141 tackles last season to lead the Denver defense. He's now moving from the middle to the weak side, which is where he belongs.

He basically gives the most overrated on a team and the most underrated. Although Reggie Bush made most overrated overall.

G_Money
05-29-2008, 03:31 PM
Does he mean on a national level?

Because I don't think anyone here in Denver under-rates DJ. I get guff just for suggesting he doesn't have good instincts and can only play the Will at a high level.

If I'm the bottom of the DJ Appreciation Pool, then he ain't under-rated around this town.

Nationally...well, being back at the Will DJ should be able to get some recognition this year. Especially if we use our LBs to do more than trail plays elegantly and look properly defeated in other teams' highlight videos.

Lynch is probably still over-rated nationally, yes. Anybody who watches him play, though, has seen him winding down for years. Except Sundquist, apparently, who thought we were totally set at safety last year.

~G

shank
05-29-2008, 03:37 PM
i think lynch's rating is right where it should be. i think it's pretty common knowledge in the football world that he's not what he used to be, and that he's lost a step, but his knowledge of the game still allows him to play at a high level most of the time. most also acknowledge that as good as he still is despite his physical shortcomings, a LOT of his value is as a mentor, teacher, and role model at this point. nothing wrong with making pro bowls for things beyond physical talent...

i think DJ is underrated. he's still an unknown to most of the football world, where if he had been allowed to stay at will from the start (damn you to hell ian gold), then he would be a household name by now, and a pro bowler. i also don't think there's many linebackers out there who could play all 3 positions in 4 years as well (even if many people think his play was subpar...) as he did. he was a great will, an ok sam, and good sam, and a good mlb in 4 years, he will be household shortly back at will.

lex
05-29-2008, 03:47 PM
In Lynch's case, theres a difference between being well known and overrated. Seriously, the guy is a well known player who is getting older. Who is trying to pretend he is still 28? Who is it thats overrating Lynch? Really, I think people are just responding to the fact that he's well known and equating fame with hype.

DenverBronkHoes
05-29-2008, 03:49 PM
see g-money's post above

LRtagger
05-29-2008, 03:54 PM
In Lynch's case, theres a difference between being well known and overrated. Seriously, the guy is a well known player who is getting older. Who is trying to pretend he is still 28? Who is it thats overrating Lynch? Really, I think people are just responding to the fact that he's well known and equating fame with hype.


I agree, but there arent many other players on the team that could be called "over-hyped". The Broncos get absolutely NO national attention, so only guys who were big names on previous teams will be considered "over-hyped".

Travis Henry and Dre Bly come to mind.

shank
05-29-2008, 03:56 PM
with travis' struggles last year, there is no hype around him anymore.

it seems like most denver fans hate bly because he's not champ bailey, several people like him, and the rest think he sucks purely because he was a lion...

dogfish
05-29-2008, 03:57 PM
eric pears is over-rated-- some people actually think he's a competent NFL tackle. . . . :laugh:

G_Money
05-29-2008, 04:04 PM
with travis' struggles last year, there is no hype around him anymore.

it seems like most denver fans hate bly because he's not champ bailey, several people like him, and the rest think he sucks purely because he was a lion...

Bly doesn't have to prove anything to me any more.

Not after he finished a game with an obviously separated shoulder because Champ was already out injured and we NEEDED Bly to stay in.

He was breaking up passes with one arm and gutting it out on tackles.

I may not think the world of Bly, but he shut up my complaints about adding him to the team that day.

We need more guys like that, not less.

~G

shank
05-29-2008, 04:06 PM
glad to hear that from you G. i just don't know what most people expected from bly, champ is in a league of his own and everyone compared bly to him, and declared taht bly sucked...

it's like they don't remember just a few years ago what it's like to have bad corners getting beat with consistency, they got used to bailey, and think good corners are unbeatable.

imo, bly is very good, and 90% of his (and bailey's) struggles last year were because of the lack of pressure on qbs and the suckitude of the run defense.

LRtagger
05-29-2008, 04:08 PM
glad to hear that from you G. i just don't know what most people expected from bly, champ is in a league of his own and everyone compared bly to him, and declared taht bly sucked...

it's like they don't remember just a few years ago what it's like to have bad corners getting beat with consistency, they got used to bailey, and think good corners are unbeatable.

imo, bly is very good, and 90% of his (and bailey's) struggles last year were because of the lack of pressure on qbs and the suckitude of the run defense.

Over-rated doesnt mean sucks. He was touted as one of the best corners in the league and when we brought him in we were said to have the best corner tandem in football. I would say that is over-rated. I dont think Bly is one of the best corners in the league.

LRtagger
05-29-2008, 04:10 PM
with travis' struggles last year, there is no hype around him anymore.


So wait, Lynch gets labelled over-hyped because he can still produce at a pretty decent level, but Travis isnt because he stunk it up last year?

I would say Travis Henry is the epitome of over-hyped / over-rated. He was brought in under a lucrative contract and didn't produce for jack.

G_Money
05-29-2008, 04:11 PM
Yep. No corner can look great with zero pressure on the QB.

Having two ball-hawking corners means we should want to add as much pressure to the QB as possible. The guys outside can pick em with the best of em.

Hopefully we figure that out this year and can collapse a pocket or twelve. Bly and Bailey will both be the better for it.

Then all we need to do is make Champ show Bly how you're supposed to tackle from the corner position (hint: try to go low instead of for a piggy-back ride) and he'll be more than fine.

~G

LRtagger
05-29-2008, 04:13 PM
Yep. No corner can look great with zero pressure on the QB.

Having two ball-hawking corners means we should want to add as much pressure to the QB as possible. The guys outside can pick em with the best of em.

Hopefully we figure that out this year and can collapse a pocket or twelve. Bly and Bailey will both be the better for it.

Then all we need to do is make Champ show Bly how you're supposed to tackle from the corner position (hint: try to go low instead of for a piggy-back ride) and he'll be more than fine.

~G

Thats the problem I have with Bly. I don't think he sucks by any means, but he cant tackle and it is a big problem. I would take him as a cover corner anyday even though he gets burned from time to time. The fact that he is probably one of the worst tackling corners in the league is the reason I think he is over-rated. Nothing more. I am still happy with our secondary.

G_Money
05-29-2008, 04:17 PM
Over-rated doesnt mean sucks. He was touted as one of the best corners in the league and when we brought him in we were said to have the best corner tandem in football. I would say that is over-rated. I dont think Bly is one of the best corners in the league.

He's playing the #2 corner spot. Are there 60 better corners than him?

If not, then he deserves to be a starter.

Are there 30 better corners than him? If not, then he could play as a #1 corner on at least one team in this league, which makes him a great #2.

*shrugs*

I guess I dunno what "one of the best" is supposed to mean. Is he a top 5 corner? No.

Top 20?

That's a slightly tougher question.

~G

G_Money
05-29-2008, 04:21 PM
Thats the problem I have with Bly. I don't think he sucks by any means, but he cant tackle and it is a big problem. I would take him as a cover corner anyday even though he gets burned from time to time. The fact that he is probably one of the worst tackling corners in the league is the reason I think he is over-rated. Nothing more. I am still happy with our secondary.

See that I can see. And that was my gripe about him to start the year too - his tackling skills were terrible, especially in run support. It was just bad.

He did get better, and honestly the whole D had trouble with that whole "wrap up and take to the ground" thing.

Here's hoping the Broncos realize that was an issue and help their players get the guy on the ground with the 1st contact instead of the 5th.

But if the only guy between a runner and a 1st down is Bly, then the runner's probably getting a 1st down. I'd rather run Bly down the field every time than let him help out like Champ or one of the safeties in the run game.

~G

BOSSHOGG30
05-29-2008, 04:22 PM
My under-rated players would be Dumervil and Crowder, especially Crowder. Dumervil's name gets mentioned here and there, but Crowder is never in the talks with the media. All we here about is Jarvis Moss.

My over-rated players would be Henry and Bly. Bly is considered one of the better corners in the league but I never understood why. He gets burnt because he isn't afraid to gamble. His numbers look good based on interceptions and returns because of this. There really isn't a stat that shows how many times he has given up a big catch or TD. He also isn't a very good tackler which I think is very important in a cornerback.

G_Money
05-29-2008, 04:25 PM
Crowder hasn't done anything yet. It's hard to under-rate the contributions of a guy who...hasn't...done anything.

At least Dum gets sacks and QB pressures.

~G

DenverBronkHoes
05-29-2008, 04:32 PM
So wait, Lynch gets labelled over-hyped because he can still produce at a pretty decent level, but Travis isnt because he stunk it up last year?

I would say Travis Henry is the epitome of over-hyped / over-rated. He was brought in under a lucrative contract and didn't produce for jack.

thank the great shanny for that

haroldthebarrel
05-29-2008, 04:32 PM
Underrated: Ekuban, Boss Bailey and Graham. Id seriously wanna put Cutler on that list as well as he is dogged since he hasnt won like Young even though he is perhaps the best young qb atm.

Overrated: Henry, Kotublablablah and Nalen. I would probably be crucified for Nalen but he isnt half the player he once was and he showed that two years ago. Now he is there for the lineman calls and veteran presence. He coming back should improve the line, but he alone wont make that much difference like many people think.

shank
05-29-2008, 04:33 PM
Over-rated doesnt mean sucks. He was touted as one of the best corners in the league and when we brought him in we were said to have the best corner tandem in football. I would say that is over-rated. I dont think Bly is one of the best corners in the league.

he's a pro bowler, he WAS one of the best corners in the league. like i said, bailey just skewed everyone's idea of what a good corner is. MOST of the best cover corners in the league aren't great tacklers, and bly showed improvement as the season went on. i still think we do have the best cb tandem (group, to be honest) in the league, it just doesn't show like it should because of our struggles up front.


So wait, Lynch gets labelled over-hyped because he can still produce at a pretty decent level, but Travis isnt because he stunk it up last year?

I would say Travis Henry is the epitome of over-hyped / over-rated. He was brought in under a lucrative contract and didn't produce for jack.

i didn't say lynch is overrated. i think most people rate him right where they should, and aging vet, who's invaluable as a leader, and can still play because of his knowledge of the game, not because of his raw speed and talent. i feel that's how most people think of john lynch at this point...

and travis WAS overhyped, but is not anymore. if you are talking a year in the past, retroactively i'd agree with you, but who fears travis henry right NOW? he took a huge paycut and many think he will be cut from the team... that's ovverrated?


See that I can see. And that was my gripe about him to start the year too - his tackling skills were terrible, especially in run support. It was just bad.

He did get better, and honestly the whole D had trouble with that whole "wrap up and take to the ground" thing.

Here's hoping the Broncos realize that was an issue and help their players get the guy on the ground with the 1st contact instead of the 5th.

But if the only guy between a runner and a 1st down is Bly, then the runner's probably getting a 1st down. I'd rather run Bly down the field every time than let him help out like Champ or one of the safeties in the run game.

~G
i'd rather have bly there than nobody. again, this is a situation where champ bailey's godliness has skewed everyone's idea of what a corner is. most are small bodies, who struggle to tackle. a select few have very good technique and make it work, but it is not the norm for corners to be good tacklers. and i don't think anyone EVER said that bly was one of the most complete corners in the league, they said he was one of the best coverage guys in the league, and from the beginning everyone knew his weaknesses, tackling, and risk-taking... i don't see how he's overrated.

BOSSHOGG30
05-29-2008, 04:36 PM
Crowder hasn't done anything yet. It's hard to under-rate the contributions of a guy who...hasn't...done anything.

At least Dum gets sacks and QB pressures.

~G

Crowder had 4.5 sacks in limited play and showed he was one of the better run stoppers on our defensive line. He also had a forced fumble and one recovery that he returned for a touchdown. He also recorded at least half a sack in 4 of his last 6 games he played in.

I think he is under-rated due because most of the talk goes to Dumervil, Moss, and other players on the defense including Bly, Champ, D.J., and Lynch. Crowder is the unknown among many on our defense.

I also like Roderick Rogers, but he is a super sleeper right now on the defense and it will be hard for him to make the team.

shank
05-29-2008, 04:36 PM
Underrated: Ekuban, Boss Bailey and Graham. Id seriously wanna put Cutler on that list as well as he is dogged since he hasnt won like Young even though he is perhaps the best young qb atm.

Overrated: Henry, Kotublablablah and Nalen. I would probably be crucified for Nalen but he isnt half the player he once was and he showed that two years ago. Now he is there for the lineman calls and veteran presence. He coming back should improve the line, but he alone wont make that much difference like many people think.

good call on cutler actually. as much as the bronco world praises him, and a select few realize how good he can be, a big majority of people think he sucks because of his w/l record. despite that record, he has a better statistical season than phylis rivers, with far less talent, and an undiagnosed disease...

many still think leinart and young are better, which is soooo wrong. w/l is not a qb stat, but because most people think it is, cutler is underrated.

DenverBronkHoes
05-29-2008, 04:38 PM
My under-rated players would be Dumervil and Crowder, especially Crowder. Dumervil's name gets mentioned here and there, but Crowder is never in the talks with the media. All we here about is Jarvis Moss.

My over-rated players would be Henry and Bly. Bly is considered one of the better corners in the league but I never understood why. He gets burnt because he isn't afraid to gamble. His numbers look good based on interceptions and returns because of this. There really isn't a stat that shows how many times he has given up a big catch or TD. He also isn't a very good tackler which I think is very important in a cornerback.

dumervil is highly underrated.... the undersize is the biggest reason... The man led the nation is SACKS for crying outloud...... his forced fumble figures are unreal..... work ethic? the work ethic of a small man with a chip will always beat the egotistical high draft picked guy

he will continue to build his name...

was Quetin Griffin ANYWHERE on that list?.... ESPN even did a sundoy convo with him after he torched the chiefs....

DenverBronkHoes
05-29-2008, 04:39 PM
note to self: listen to G-money

DenverBronkHoes
05-29-2008, 04:40 PM
Crowder hasn't done anything yet. It's hard to under-rate the contributions of a guy who...hasn't...done anything.

At least Dum gets sacks and QB pressures.

~G

dont forget the fumbles.... an undersized man with flailing tree trunks for arms will make shit happen

G_Money
05-29-2008, 04:51 PM
Crowder had 4.5 sacks in limited play and showed he was one of the better run stoppers on our defensive line. He also had a forced fumble and one recovery that he returned for a touchdown. He also recorded at least half a sack in 4 of his last 6 games he played in.

I think he is under-rated due because most of the talk goes to Dumervil, Moss, and other players on the defense including Bly, Champ, D.J., and Lynch. Crowder is the unknown among many on our defense.

I also like Roderick Rogers, but he is a super sleeper right now on the defense and it will be hard for him to make the team.

Okay...Crowder also had 17 tackles all year. And can I say that being "one of the better run stoppers" on last year's team is like being a one-eyed man in the land of the blind?

The article is from a national perspective - I don't think anyone nationally is under-rating Crowder because Crowder had one pretty fumble recovery and a couple of sacks among his less-than-20 tackles on the year.

If you think Crowder's about to jump to full-time starter, 12 sacks and 80 tackles next season, okay - I can see that you think he's under-rated as to his potential.

But he's not under-rated based on his performance thus far.

And like you said, I wouldn't put odds on Rogers making the team.

~G

atwater27
05-29-2008, 05:07 PM
Reggie Bush and Vonce Young.... the 2 most overrated players in the league...

Lonestar
05-29-2008, 05:47 PM
Lynch is not going to cost you games like some others have.

He is a steady influence both in the locker room and on the field..

Hopefully he can teach Woodyard and Barrett the ropes and make them into a future stars at Safety..

WARHORSE
05-29-2008, 10:07 PM
Underrated: Ekuban, Boss Bailey and Graham. Id seriously wanna put Cutler on that list as well as he is dogged since he hasnt won like Young even though he is perhaps the best young qb atm.

Overrated: Henry, Kotublablablah and Nalen. I would probably be crucified for Nalen but he isnt half the player he once was and he showed that two years ago. Now he is there for the lineman calls and veteran presence. He coming back should improve the line, but he alone wont make that much difference like many people think.


If the dude starts, he starts. No matter what each lineman brings to the table, if his list of attributes are greater than the next guys, he plays.

Nails has more football in a burp than half the linemen in the league. Theres a reason hes still starting, and it aint just cause we like him and therefore keep him.

We liked Al Wilson as well, and one could easily make the argument that Al was a greater presence in the lockeroom than Nails is/was.

I dont see how we overate Nalen.....everyone knows hes not the same guy. Hes in no different situation than Lynch is when it comes to whether or not he continues to start. His job is up for grabs as well.


As for Cutler, no one really says jack about him. Everything is still Leinhart and Young in the news.................................but not after this year.:coffee:

Simple Jaded
05-29-2008, 10:27 PM
with travis' struggles last year, there is no hype around him anymore.

it seems like most denver fans hate bly because he's not champ bailey, several people like him, and the rest think he sucks purely because he was a lion...

It kinda seems to me that Broncos fans don't like Bly because he's not Domonique Foxworth, maybe it's a bit of both.

As far as Overrated, I'm with Dogfish, Erik Pears is pretty overrated. As for Underrated, Daniel Graham gets my Underrated (See my Overrated).

Honorable Mention:

Overrated: Any Denver Broncos Running Back.

Underrated: The value of a Franchise Running Back......

Watchthemiddle
05-29-2008, 10:32 PM
Overated - the draft

Underated - a Full Back

Fan in Exile
05-29-2008, 10:59 PM
Underrated: Ekuban, Boss Bailey and Graham. Id seriously wanna put Cutler on that list as well as he is dogged since he hasnt won like Young even though he is perhaps the best young qb atm.

Overrated: Henry, Kotublablablah and Nalen. I would probably be crucified for Nalen but he isnt half the player he once was and he showed that two years ago. Now he is there for the lineman calls and veteran presence. He coming back should improve the line, but he alone wont make that much difference like many people think.

I don't think you can say Kootie is overated when most people don't think he's important enough to learn his name. At the same time all the mock drafts I've seen have us taking a MIKE for 2009.

Stargazer
05-30-2008, 12:31 AM
Bush came into the league as a player many expected to be a Marshall Faulk-type of runner

Never understood this comparison EVER.

Stargazer
05-30-2008, 12:35 AM
Denver Broncos

Overrated: S John Lynch. You can put him in this spot every year, even if his reputation has declined some. There are those who still worship his game.

Baltimore Ravens

Overrated: CB Chris McAlister. It's too bad Steve McNair retired. He would have won this easily. Without him, it's tough to pick somebody here. But I went with McAlister, who missed half of last season because of injury. He's not a premier corner anymore.

Um, Ray Lewis?

Lewis & Lynch have been getting by on reputation alone. These two are definately overrated in the league today. Yet, both somehow end up in the Pro Bowl.

Lonestar
05-30-2008, 12:44 AM
It kinda seems to me that Broncos fans don't like Bly because he's not Domonique Foxworth, maybe it's a bit of both.

As far as Overrated, I'm with Dogfish, Erik Pears is pretty overrated. As for Underrated, Daniel Graham gets my Underrated (See my Overrated).

Honorable Mention:

Overrated: Any Denver Broncos Running Back.

Underrated: The value of a Franchise Running Back......

I do not particularly like either of them..

Foxy as some like to call him can't cover and Bly get beat alot when he gambles and double moves are a real problem for him. For the money he is making their should be a lot less foibles for him.. He is Darrent II being paid alot more..

EastCoastBronco
05-30-2008, 06:59 AM
Yep. No corner can look great with zero pressure on the QB.

Having two ball-hawking corners means we should want to add as much pressure to the QB as possible. The guys outside can pick em with the best of em.

Hopefully we figure that out this year and can collapse a pocket or twelve. Bly and Bailey will both be the better for it.

Then all we need to do is make Champ show Bly how you're supposed to tackle from the corner position (hint: try to go low instead of for a piggy-back ride) and he'll be more than fine.

~G

This is so true G...I seem to remember when we had guys like Neil Smith, Alfred Williams, a young Trevor Pryce and Keith Traylor...Guys like Darien Gordon, Ray Crocket and Tyrone Braxton looked pretty damn good. Hell even Romo, Mobley and Atwater got picks that year...
It all starts up front...without the pressure we could have 6 Baileys and it wouldn't make a lick of difference...

HolyDiver
05-30-2008, 08:25 AM
This is so true G...I seem to remember when we had guys like Neil Smith, Alfred Williams, a young Trevor Pryce and Keith Traylor...Guys like Darien Gordon, Ray Crocket and Tyrone Braxton looked pretty damn good. Hell even Romo, Mobley and Atwater got picks that year...
It all starts up front...without the pressure we could have 6 Baileys and it wouldn't make a lick of difference...


Romo and Atwater were the key players.............Their intimidation played a big part.

Ziggy
05-30-2008, 09:07 AM
Overrated- Hamilton

Underrated- Dumervil, Graham

Hamilton is an average lineman at best, who is overrated by Broncos Nation. Doom is underrated by all but Broncos Nation, Graham is one of the main reasons we were able to move the ball on offense last season. When this offensive line comes together and Graham can actually be used as more than a babysitter for our tackles, he'll shine.

tubby
05-30-2008, 04:44 PM
Members of the forum.

Overrated – DJ Williams
Underrated – Travis Henry

gobroncsnv
05-30-2008, 05:57 PM
Yep. No corner can look great with zero pressure on the QB.

Having two ball-hawking corners means we should want to add as much pressure to the QB as possible. The guys outside can pick em with the best of em.

Hopefully we figure that out this year and can collapse a pocket or twelve. Bly and Bailey will both be the better for it.

Then all we need to do is make Champ show Bly how you're supposed to tackle from the corner position (hint: try to go low instead of for a piggy-back ride) and he'll be more than fine.

~G

The only thing wrong with this post is that you didn't set it up in a 32 point font... Too many Maddenites looking for good skill players want to let us rot in the trenches, which is where games are won or lost. Having good pressure up front, both pocket-crushing, as well as run stuffing, will also make Lynch look better also, like he's 10 years younger, with all the experience.

haroldthebarrel
05-30-2008, 06:02 PM
The only thing wrong with this post is that you didn't set it up in a 32 point font... Too many Maddenites looking for good skill players want to let us rot in the trenches, which is where games are won or lost. Having good pressure up front, both pocket-crushing, as well as run stuffing, will also make Lynch look better also, like he's 10 years younger, with all the experience.

actually the best way to win in madden is to put nano pressure on the qb.

But i agree with you. the more I learn about the game the more convinced I am the game is won in the trenches. In fact, I dont think there has been a superbowl champion that werent really good to dominant on either OL or DL and avg or better on the other.

nevcraw
05-30-2008, 07:02 PM
Overrated: Rick "Tutes" Tuten
Underrated: Miles the mascot

Retired_Member_001
05-31-2008, 08:03 AM
D.J. Williams is easily the most underrated player on this team. In my honest opinion, he was a top MLB last season. Call me crazy, call me what you want, but if he was put behind a better defensive line, you would all be calling him "The Messiah". I really hope Shanahan changes his mind and plays DJ at MLB this season.