Interesting read on whether or not a QB is ready for the NFL level

[Northman]

Step 1

See how many games the quarterback started in college. Many teams fall in love with one-year collegiate wonders. Most of the top NFL quarterbacks taken high in the 1990s and 2000s--Peyton Manning, Donovan McNabb, Carson Palmer--started more than 35 games in college. Some of the biggest flops--Ryan Leaf, Akili Smith and Jim Druckenmiller--started roughly 20 games or less.


Step 2

Look at the player's college completion percentage. If it is higher than 60 percent, that is a good sign that the player is an accurate passer. If it is in the mid-50s range, let that be a warning sign. Quarterbacks tend not to get more accurate in the pros.


Step 3

Look at the completion percentage of the quarterbacks who preceded him on his college team. For example, if a college team consistently has a quarterback who completes 68 percent of his passes--whether he's a 6-foot-5 hyped prospect or a 5-foot-9 quarterback who never got a sniff from the NFL--that is a warning sign that it is the college team's system that is the real star.


Step 4

Keep your eye on the quarterback's passing--not on his running. Too often, pundits tag a quarterback who can run a 4.3 in the 40-yard dash as creating an added dimension with his talent. Not quite true. Yes, scrambling quarterbacks do create opportunity with their legs, but too often NFL scramblers get injured or quite simply can't throw the ball well enough. The best bet is to take a scrambler in the later rounds and groom his passing skills. Don't pay the extra millions for that guy in the first round.


Step 5

Look at arm speed and not arm strength. Too often, fans get excited by a guy who can throw really far, but in reality, they need to get excited about a guy who can unload the ball quickly. Rarely does a quarterback get 6 seconds to wind up and throw 70 yards in a game. It's more like 3 seconds.

[Lonestar]

So now that you set that up :hachet job: how does TT compare.

I can hardly wait. For your unbiased comparison. :laugh:
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[Lonestar]

Got a link?
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[underrated29]

Yes, I would like to see how those numbers compare to Tebadass.



I have a good idea about some, but the QB playing there before TT, Do not know how he did.

And for the release- you cant count the wind up part. You have to time from cocked position to release...as that is what the article is saying.

[claymore]

Yes, I would like to see how those numbers compare to Tebadass.



I have a good idea about some, but the QB playing there before TT, Do not know how he did.

And for the release- you cant count the wind up part. You have to time from cocked position to release...as that is what the article is saying.

Chris Leak. Not near as good as Tebow.

Leak
http://sports.espn.go.com/ncf/player/profile?playerId=146526

Tebow
http://sports.espn.go.com/ncf/player/profile?playerId=183484

[underrated29]

Chris Leak. Not near as good as Tebow.

Leak
http://sports.espn.go.com/ncf/player/profile?playerId=146526

Tebow
http://sports.espn.go.com/ncf/player/profile?playerId=183484





Claymore FTW!

[underrated29]

Wow- Really Tebow is plain and simple a badass. After looking at those numbers. Yes, their comp% was kinda close but tebow blew him out of the water in tds, ints and yards...Then there is also all the rushing yards and tds that tebow had too.

Even the last year which was his worst year he still had nice numbers and lots of rush yards and tds....This makes me happy.:)

[elsid13]

Chris Leak. Not near as good as Tebow.

Leak
http://sports.espn.go.com/ncf/player/profile?playerId=146526

Tebow
http://sports.espn.go.com/ncf/player/profile?playerId=183484

Remember Leak only played in Meyer system one year. So it the 2006 numbers you need to compare. Also I would use Alex Smith (Utes) as the true comparison to Tebow in Meyers' spread option.

[Northman]

Chris Leak. Not near as good as Tebow.

Leak
http://sports.espn.go.com/ncf/player/profile?playerId=146526

Tebow
http://sports.espn.go.com/ncf/player/profile?playerId=183484

But both he and Grossman did have over a 60% completion rate which goes into the "system" philosphy. Obviously, Tebow as a couple of heismans, 2 championships, and a hard work ethic to give him a nod over the previous two. But, 3 out of 4 years Tebow was basically a run first QB and considering what he does need to work on leads one to believe we may have reached too high for a project.

[underrated29]

Remember Leak only played in Meyer system one year. So it the 2006 numbers you need to compare. Also I would use Alex Smith (Utes) as the true comparison to Tebow in Meyers' spread option.

DANGIT-ALRIGHT CAN WE GET ALEx smiths numbers for whatever year he was an urban meyer weinner.

[elsid13]

DANGIT-ALRIGHT CAN WE GET ALEx smiths numbers for whatever year he was an urban meyer weinner.

http://sports.espn.go.com/ncf/player/profile?playerId=134662

On par with Tebow's

[Lonestar]

IIRC the OROY in jays rookie year was a run first @UT. And was a dmaned fine QB last year after a WTF second year.

Let's see how the kid plays before dooming him to oblivion.
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[claymore]

Another important factor in successful QB's is graduating. Most successful QB's graduated college vs coming out after their junior year.

In Tebow's defense he played in a far more competitive conference than Smith. IMO.

[underrated29]

I concur. Pretty on par with tebow. Smith had 42 tds to TT 35 or so...So smith beat him out there.

I never liked A. smith coming out...Was always a big fan of rogers and said there two careers would shape out exactly as they are. One can go back and look at my posts if they do not believe me...

Although A smith is surprising some now..Partially because the 9ers dont suck like they used too. Still it does show how an offense catered to a players strengths can be used. Still smith IMO is not a very good running qb. And I am glad we have TT instead of smith. But it does somewhat damper the lovely aura that we like to bask in- commonly know as the tebow.

[underrated29]

IIRC the OROY in jays rookie year was a run first @UT. And was a dmaned fine QB last year after a WTF second year.

Let's see how the kid plays before dooming him to oblivion.
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Yes- we like to refer to him as Vince Young. or VY for short.

[Northman]

For your unbiased comparison. :laugh:
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You are the last person who should be throwing around "unbiased" remarks. :lol:

[claymore]

VY sucks. I will go on the Rush Limbaugh wagon and say the media wanted that guy to be successful.

[claymore]

You are the last person who should be throwing around "unbiased" remarks. :lol:

No shit!!!!!

[Lonestar]

Yes- we like to refer to him as Vince Young. or VY for short.

Thanks hard to remember all the players everywhere. Even when they were surrounded by mega talent on the college team.

I never thought much of him @UT. Other than that last GAME he played beating USC.

So it comes to fact that running QB's need help in developing. Steve Young an prime example was a bust in TB and set behinh the GOAT until he was ready then became a HOF player.

I for one will back my HC and GM as well as the players they bring in until they BUST on season doth not remotely show bust for any of them.
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[T.K.O.]

VY sucks. I will go on the Rush Limbaugh wagon and say the media wanted that guy to be successful.

that was mcnabb that rush was talking about.....:confused:
guess you were already on the "rushwagon":laugh:

[claymore]

that was mcnabb that rush was talking about.....:confused:
guess you were already on the "rushwagon":laugh:

I know. But, I always felt that way about VY. Players opting out of the pro bowl so he could go etc... And he really didnt have a good rookie year. His defense bailed his ass out that year, and he got credit for the wins.

[T.K.O.]

I know. But, I always felt that way about VY. Players opting out of the pro bowl so he could go etc... And he really didnt have a good rookie year. His defense bailed his ass out that year, and he got credit for the wins.

it's almost as bad as people saying cutler had a better year than orton in 09':D

[claymore]

it's almost as bad as people saying cutler had a better year than orton in 09':D

SweetGeebus..... :laugh:

[slim]

I concur. Pretty on par with tebow. Smith had 42 tds to TT 35 or so...So smith beat him out there.

I never liked A. smith coming out...Was always a big fan of rogers and said there two careers would shape out exactly as they are. One can go back and look at my posts if they do not believe me...

Although A smith is surprising some now..Partially because the 9ers dont suck like they used too. Still it does show how an offense catered to a players strengths can be used. Still smith IMO is not a very good running qb. And I am glad we have TT instead of smith. But it does somewhat damper the lovely aura that we like to bask in- commonly know as the tebow.

You can't compare Smith and Tebow.

Tebow played against great defensive teams. Smith played against putrid defensive teams.

[TXBRONC]

But both he and Grossman did have over a 60% completion rate which goes into the "system" philosphy. Obviously, Tebow as a couple of heismans, 2 championships, and a hard work ethic to give him a nod over the previous two. But, 3 out of 4 years Tebow was basically a run first QB and considering what he does need to work on leads one to believe we may have reached too high for a project.

Grossman played for Spurrier if I'm not mistaken so the system isn't exactly like what Tebow ran.

[Northman]

Grossman played for Spurrier if I'm not mistaken so the system isn't exactly like what Tebow ran.

True, but its really not that far stretched between the two either. Both liked a lot of offense. But my overall point is that QB's at the UF have done pretty well but not so much coming out of college.

[underrated29]

You can't compare Smith and Tebow.

Tebow played against great defensive teams. Smith played against putrid defensive teams.



Aha!

Another good point that needs to be taken into account. What were the defenses like when each played? And for that matter what were the teams like that they played on--Oline, WR, (RB to an extent)?

I do not know these things because I do not watch college football.


smith played against weak teams. Good glad to hear that. I know tebow played against good defensive teams because thats all everyone talks about.
How about their own teams repsectively? What can we look at there?

[Tempus Fugit]

True, but its really not that far stretched between the two either. Both liked a lot of offense. But my overall point is that QB's at the UF have done pretty well but not so much coming out of college.

1.) Comparing QBs numbers running different systems just because they went to the same college is "far stretched".

2.) The only 'recent' Florida QB that was really hyped at all, before Tebow, was Wuerffel, and his arm strength was so minimal that it was expected by everyone to be his problem at the next level. One look at the list sums it up pretty well, really. Even at the college level, players like Doug Johnson and Shane Matthews weren't being looked at as NFL megatalents-in-waiting.

[TXBRONC]

True, but its really not that far stretched between the two either. Both liked a lot of offense. But my overall point is that QB's at the UF have done pretty well but not so much coming out of college.

Agreed. But even if Tebow had gone to a different school it probable he would still have same challenges.

[Northman]

Agreed. But even if Tebow had gone to a different school it probable he would still have same challenges.

Absolutely.

[TXBRONC]

1.) Comparing QBs numbers running different systems just because they went to the same college is "far stretched".

2.) The only 'recent' Florida QB that was really hyped at all, before Tebow, was Wuerffel, and his arm strength was so minimal that it was expected by everyone to be his problem at the next level. One look at the list sums it up pretty well, really. Even at the college level, players like Doug Johnson and Shane Matthews weren't being looked at as NFL megatalents-in-waiting.

That is incorrect Grossman was highly touted when he came out in fact he was 22nd pick in his draft class. Wuerffel was something like a 3rd rounder.

[Northman]

1.) Comparing QBs numbers running different systems just because they went to the same college is "far stretched".

2.) The only 'recent' Florida QB that was really hyped at all, before Tebow, was Wuerffel, and his arm strength was so minimal that it was expected by everyone to be his problem at the next level. One look at the list sums it up pretty well, really. Even at the college level, players like Doug Johnson and Shane Matthews weren't being looked at as NFL megatalents-in-waiting.

Actually, Grossman was hyped quite a bit in his own right. And he did manage to lead his team to the SB so he has that going for him. But, it still doesnt sway the percentages that Florida generally does not produce NFL ready QB's. Does this mean Tebow will fail? Nope. But it doesnt mean he will succeed either just because he had success at the College level.

[Broncolingus]

True, but its really not that far stretched between the two either. Both liked a lot of offense. But my overall point is that QB's at the UF have done pretty well but not so much coming out of college.

Whaaaaaaaaaaaa???!!!

Danny Wuerffel was a friggin MVP!!!!!

...well, for the Rhein Fire in World Bowl 2000!

:D

[Northman]

Whaaaaaaaaaaaa???!!!

Danny Wuerffel was a friggin MVP!!!!!

...well, for the Rhein Fire in World Bowl 2000!

:D

Embarrassingly enough i was one of those who thought Wuerffel was going to be a star at the pro level. WTF was i thinking? Hence why i have reservations about Tebow.

[Broncolingus]

That is incorrect Grossman was highly touted when he came out in fact he was 22nd pick in his draft class. Wuerffel was something like 3rd rounder.

4th rounder...by Naw-lands.

...AND an MVP (see above post).

Wuerffel > Elway, Marino, Manning, etc.

:D

[Broncolingus]

Embarrassingly enough i was one of those who thought Wuerffel was going to be a star at the pro level. WTF was i thinking? Hence why i have reservations about Tebow.

Its okay...

...you were having a 'Clay' moment.

Kinda like being 'Munsoned' - only worse.

http://www.intentionalfoul.com/images/roymunson.jpg

[claymore]

Its okay...

...you were having a 'Clay' moment.

Kinda like being 'Munsoned' - only worse.

http://www.intentionalfoul.com/images/roymunson.jpg

People laughed at me when I said we wouldnt know who Brandstater was in 3 years, :werd:

[Tempus Fugit]

That is incorrect Grossman was highly touted when he came out in fact he was 22nd pick in his draft class. Wuerffel was something like 3rd rounder.

I had forgotten about Grossman, to be honest. That changes the number of previously 'hyped' Florida QBs for NFL stardom from 0 to 1, although there were a lot of questions about him as well.

[Broncolingus]

People laughed at me when I said we wouldnt know who Brandstater was in 3 years, :werd:

You called it! :salute:

...and don't be so hard on yourself...

...eveyone laughs at you all the time regardless.

[TXBRONC]

4th rounder...by Naw-lands.

...AND an MVP (see above post).

Wuerffel > Elway, Marino, Manning, etc.

:D

Thanks. I knew Wuerffel wasn't drafted early I just didn't rememeber which round.

[Lonestar]

You are the last person who should be throwing around "unbiased" remarks. :lol:

well my friend I at least have made an effort to look at all sides of the issue before condemning everything.

more than I can say about some.

I'm will ing to give the players and coaches brought into DEN by PAT and in his name by Josh a chance to blow up before grilling them.

I guess my comments about DOOM a few years ago were premature, but he still has been nothing but a one trick pony a good one at that but still one trick.


I supported mikey for a decade before seeing that he was OC material only and should have been replaced by a Professional GM and not allowed to do anything about the Defense.

I think my thoughts on him from about 2004 (maybe late 03) or so on have been validated, by his lack of playoff wins, and ultimately his being fired.

But we need not go there.

[Northman]

well my friend I at least have made an effort to look at all sides of the issue before condemning everything.

Uh, ok if you say so.


I'm will ing to give the players and coaches brought into DEN by PAT and in his name by Josh a chance to blow up before grilling them.

Who says i havent? In fact ive stated numerous times its basically a wait and see approach. But, there have been plenty to already give them excuses and proclaim them champions without seeing the final product.


I guess my comments about DOOM a few years ago were premature, but he still has been nothing but a one trick pony a good one at that but still one trick.

Based off what? One year in a system that actually worked for him? Now, he has to YET AGAIN deal with a DC change that may or may not affect what he has already done. Going by your logic, if Tebow fails in his first year as a starter that means he is crap right? You simply cannot apply that kind of logic to Doom considering all the changes he has had to face at his specific position. Its horseshit and you know it.


I supported mikey for a decade before seeing that he was OC material only and should have been replaced by a Professional GM and not allowed to do anything about the Defense.

I too think that Shanahan would of benefitted having a legit GM to help him out. But ive seen you on more than one occasion trying to discredit the guy and all his accomplishments as a HC in Denver. He had his fair share of issues especially down the stretch but your hate is simply misplaced no doubt about it.


But we need not go there.

Exactly, lets talk about our HC who was a OC who could not generate any offense in 09' with the talent that he had. Lets talk about his mediocre start and not worry about a guy who is no longer here.

[Lonestar]

Uh, ok if you say so.




Who says i havent? In fact ive stated numerous times its basically a wait and see approach. But, there have been plenty to already give them excuses and proclaim them champions without seeing the final product.
pleease not sure who has said this in anything but jest.


Based off what? One year in a system that actually worked for him? Now, he has to YET AGAIN deal with a DC change that may or may not affect what he has already done. Going by your logic, if Tebow fails in his first year as a starter that means he is crap right? You simply cannot apply that kind of logic to Doom considering all the changes he has had to face at his specific position. Its horseshit and you know it.


There is a huge difference in a 20+ year coach and a raw rookie out of college.

I suspect that tebow will not see the field except for occasional occurrences this next year. Unless there are major injuries. as to Doom I'm willing to give him another year to learn or even TRY to make improvements to his lack of coverage and making tackles on running plays. that is before he gets a fat contract, or if we give him one now it has to be tied to incentives in performance other than hand in the dirt rushing the QB.



I too think that Shanahan would of benefitted having a legit GM to help him out. But ive seen you on more than one occasion trying to discredit the guy and all his accomplishments as a HC in Denver. He had his fair share of issues especially down the stretch but your hate is simply misplaced no doubt about it.

rarely if ever have I said anything bad about mikey the OC if you can find more than one then look around it as I was merely chiming in with everyone else discussing him not having his players ready for trap games or uber lousy play calling.in games that we have just lost.

I do not hate the guy just think he sucked as HC and Lord of the Broncos.




Exactly, lets talk about our HC who was a OC who could not generate any offense in 09' with the talent that he had. Lets talk about his mediocre start and not worry about a guy who is no longer here.

I think there were legit reason for the lousy season offensively we had not excuses but REASONS, we have talked about them adnaseum all off season.

I'm willing to see how everyone does this coming year before jumping down on them.

If we have not improved and there are no valid reasons for it, then you will be seeing me being critical just Like I was for mikey.

Till then being a nut hugger of jay or mikey gets us NOW WHERE in logical conversation.

Got to go to worky

[TXBRONC]

well my friend I at least have made an effort to look at all sides of the issue before condemning everything.

Since when? :rofl:

[TXBRONC]

I supported mikey for a decade before seeing that he was OC material only and should have been replaced by a Professional GM and not allowed to do anything about the Defense.

How so? When Shanahan fired you pissed and moaned how you had wanted him fired for the 10 previous years. So which is hoss?

[Northman]

pleease not sure who has said this in anything but jest.

Calling his draft picks "great" when none have proven their worth yet is glorifying someone before all is said and done. And there have been plenty to come out and say that McD has already won and done better because of the changes he made. But again, all is not said and done.


I suspect that tebow will not see the field except for occasional occurrences this next year. Unless there are major injuries.

Ive seen people already saying he will start this coming year.



As to Doom I'm willing to give him another year to learn or even TRY to make improvements to his lack of coverage and making tackles on running plays. that is before he gets a fat contract, or if we give him one now it has to be tied to incentives in performance other than hand in the dirt rushing the QB.

Yea yea yea, i keep hearing about this big contract he is expecting yet nothing has been made public about it. Just you and your assumptions again.


I do not hate the guy just think he sucked as HC and Lord of the Broncos.

If McDaniels wins 2 championships does that mean he sucks too? Gimme a break already with that crap. And no one has called him "Lord" of the Denver Broncos but he has been the most "successful" Bronco coach so he deserves the credit where credit is due.


I think there were legit reason for the lousy season offensively we had not excuses but REASONS, we have talked about them adnaseum all off season.

Hmm, yea McD faced some adversity all of which he brought on himself. Who would of ******* thought of that? Yet, the DC he brought in had to deal with MORE issues than McD and still managed to at least show up part of the year before the offense became an anchor.


I'm willing to see how everyone does this coming year before jumping down on them.

No one's jumping down on them. We are questioning some of the moves and the excuses given to those who are already calling him a success. There is a vast difference between saying he is a failure and questioning some of the moves. Some of those moves i stood behind so i possibly cant be a McD hater now can i?

[TXBRONC]

Calling his draft picks "great" when none have proven their worth yet is glorifying someone before all is said and done. And there have been plenty to come out and say that McD has already won and done better because of the changes he made. But again, all is not said and done.



Ive seen people already saying he will start this coming year.




Yea yea yea, i keep hearing about this big contract he is expecting yet nothing has been made public about it. Just you and your assumptions again.



If McDaniels wins 2 championships does that mean he sucks too? Gimme a break already with that crap. And no one has called him "Lord" of the Denver Broncos but he has been the most "successful" Bronco coach so he deserves the credit where credit is due.



Hmm, yea McD faced some adversity all of which he brought on himself. Who would of ******* thought of that? Yet, the DC he brought in had to deal with MORE issues than McD and still managed to at least show up part of the year before the offense became an anchor.



No one's jumping down on them. We are questioning some of the moves and the excuses given to those who are already calling him a success. There is a vast difference between saying he is a failure and questioning some of the moves. Some of those moves i stood behind so i possibly cant be a McD hater now can i?

Yeah some of the adversity that McDaniel went through was of his own doing.

[Lonestar]

Calling his draft picks "great" when none have proven their worth yet is glorifying someone before all is said and done. And there have been plenty to come out and say that McD has already won and done better because of the changes he made. But again, all is not said and done.


IMO they were great picks never said they would be super stars in the NFL, but they seem to be heads above what we have seen for a long time



Ive seen people already saying he will start this coming year. not from my lips perhaps from some kiddie but NO ONE credible.





Yea yea yea, i keep hearing about this big contract he is expecting yet nothing has been made public about it. Just you and your assumptions again.

MAybe I assumed, but maybe they are taking so long because he DOES NOT want a mega deal.. TIME will tell who is closer to the truth, a good deal fro both sides with lots of incentives to make him better or a mega deal.

I'm hoping they will be reasonable for all of our sakes, as fans.




If McDaniels wins 2 championships does that mean he sucks too? Gimme a break already with that crap. And no one has called him "Lord" of the Denver Broncos but he has been the most "successful" Bronco coach so he deserves the credit where credit is due.

If Josh wins two Lombardis there will be some fans that think his crap does not stink like they did with mikey. I however will watch fro issues that I do not like. I will state them as I have with every player or coach I in the past.




Hmm, yea McD faced some adversity all of which he brought on himself. Who would of ******* thought of that? Yet, the DC he brought in had to deal with MORE issues than McD and still managed to at least show up part of the year before the offense became an anchor.

I thought a lot of what nolan did was with smoke and mirrors (lightweights on the dl) and after the break most teams had our game plan down and we went from a very good Defense to a laughing stock by years end.




No one's jumping down on them. We are questioning some of the moves and the excuses given to those who are already calling him a success. There is a vast difference between saying he is a failure and questioning some of the moves. Some of those moves i stood behind so i possibly cant be a McD hater now can i?


I have done nothing but post my thoughts on him.

HE did not do as well as I would have liked, but was realistic in knowing that with as many changes as we had last year anything more than 4-12 was a gift.

I was not Impressen with Nolan EXCPET fro getting the D organized, ready to play, Like others here I saw the D fade down the road and that could be "excused" by lack of O. but could be because they were exposed after the break and the lack of talent on the LOS.

Both of which I was skeptical of the moment he brought in field and proclaimed him the starter and went no further in looking for more NTs, albeit it a limited talent pool.


I gave him the benefit of doubt only to be justified in my beliefs.

SO while YOU and a few other feel that you are dead on in your dislike of Josh and everything he has done. MAny of us are looking at it as a REBUILD and that everything is not going to fit exactly right with in minutes of them being brought together.

So lets just agree to disagree on Josh, mikey and past FUBARS by him.

[GGMoogly]

not from my lips perhaps from some kiddie but NO ONE credible.


Those were MY lips. I said it. Hell, I'll say it again, before the season is over, Tebow will start for the Broncos. I'm no kiddie and I'm certainly NOT credible, just a silly man who likes football. :dance:

[Lonestar]

Those were MY lips. I said it. Hell, I'll say it again, before the season is over, Tebow will start for the Broncos. I'm no kiddie and I'm certainly NOT credible, just a silly man who likes football. :dance:
well at least your willing to own up to it..

and frankly more credible than most. even if you hate orton, josh, pat, xman, quinine, and most of the rest of the broncos.;)

[GGMoogly]

well at least your willing to own up to it..

and frankly more credible than most. even if you hate orton, josh, pat, xman, quinine, and most of the rest of the broncos.;)

Naww...I don't hate anyone. Alright, maybe McD a little last year, but since the Tebow pick, I'm willing to forgive and forget. :D

[Lonestar]

Naww...I don't hate anyone. Alright, maybe McD a little last year, but since the Tebow pick, I'm willing to forgive and forget. :D


About friggin time.

hey guys one more that has come over from the dark side.:salute: