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View Full Version : Have Shanahan's views on FB position changed?



Dean
05-28-2008, 08:57 AM
Is it a coincidence that so many players that have played FB are on this year's pre-season roster?

Bell was moved to FB last year as Sapp was a few years earlier. We drafted Hollis and are currently in the process of signing Pittman who played some FB last year. When you add that Larsen is being looked at as a possible fullback it makes me wonder if Mike is thinking of going back to increasing the use of a FB in his offense this year.

It would offer the advantages of strengthening the inside running game, a short yardage power back (without tipping your hand), improving pass blocking, and giving the QB a safety valve to relieve quick pressure from the defense.

JoeF
05-28-2008, 09:09 AM
Dean, good points. The saftey valve utilization for a QB developing at the stage Jay Cutler is in, makes sense...as does utilization of slot rec'r/Stokley and TEs.

That is a big appeal of Michael Pittman as a "swing-back" on play-action or bubble-screen utilization.

FB may be a bigger position for the '08 Broncos and it sure seems there are some bodies preparing and or being evaluated. A Vrable-type Larson would be a treat. Sapp could go nuts, Bell may bring something not expected...Hillis seems a hybrid too...yep, FB is gettin a ton of attention.

Mike
05-28-2008, 09:30 AM
Is it a coincidence that so many players that have played FB are on this year's pre-season roster?

Bell was moved to FB last year as Sapp was a few years earlier. We drafted Hollis and are currently in the process of signing Pittman who played some FB last year. When you add that Larsen is being looked at as a possible fullback it makes me wonder if Mike is thinking of going back to increasing the use of a FB in his offense this year.

It would offer the advantages of strengthening the inside running game, a short yardage power back (without tipping your hand), improving pass blocking, and giving the QB a safety valve to relieve quick pressure from the defense.

His view of FB has sucked since Griffith retired. Somebody ought to slap him upside his head and tell him that you shouldn't take a HB and convert him to FB. :smack:

JoeF
05-28-2008, 09:45 AM
Mention of Griffith, Mike, brings images of a guy in his thirties blocking affectively and catching passes et cetera.

I don't know if Griffith played another position or three prior to ending his career as a FB. It doessw look like FB is getting enough attention that it will figure into the current picture, and may be why Pittman may be added.

I have no clue as to why a big dozer like Alstott is not the direction Shanahan is going, yet it seems that development of Jay Cutler plays way into it.

broncosfanscott
05-28-2008, 11:33 AM
His view of FB has sucked since Griffith retired. Somebody ought to slap him upside his head and tell him that you shouldn't take a HB and convert him to FB. :smack:

Man do I ever miss Griffith.

HolyDiver
05-28-2008, 11:34 AM
His view of FB has sucked since Griffith retired. Somebody ought to slap him upside his head and tell him that you shouldn't take a HB and convert him to FB. :smack:


Griffith was a Tailback in college.

BOSSHOGG30
05-28-2008, 12:41 PM
I don't think it has changed... It wasn't long ago he signed a FB named Rashon Powers-Neal who was also viewed by many draft experts as a the perfect full back for Denver's west coast scheme. I do think that Hillis is far better than Powers-Neal and he shouldn't have a problem becoming an impact player.

haroldthebarrel
05-28-2008, 12:53 PM
Griffith was a Tailback in college.

true. I even think he still has some college rb records.

People tend to forget that fact when they are criticizing Shanahan for turning rbs into fbs.

Hillis was a huge gain though. He reminds me of Larry Centers with perhaps a little better blocking potential and a little less receiving potential.

Ray Finkle
05-28-2008, 01:07 PM
Talking with a couple of folks in the know, yes his views have changed. He now favors the TE sets to that of the FB.

Mike
05-28-2008, 01:08 PM
Griffith was a Tailback in college.

All fine and good. He was turned (not by Shanahan) into a FB as a pro. He had a history as a FB when he came to Denver.

So, while I understand your point, I still think that Mike Shanahan's history of taking HB and using them as FB stinks. The two shouldn't be used interchangably. Hopefully, proof that he has realized this is in Hillis.

Lonestar
05-28-2008, 01:10 PM
All fine and good. He was turned (not by Shanahan) into a FB as a pro. He had a history as a FB when he came to Denver.

So, while I understand your point, I still think that Mike Shanahan's history of taking HB and using them as FB stinks. The two shouldn't be used interchangably. Hopefully, proof that he has realized this is in Hillis.

IIRC he was already a FB when he came to DEN.. YOUR correct on this one..

turftoad
05-28-2008, 01:16 PM
The lack of using a FB could translate into our red zone whoas also.

When Griffin was blocking for TD down there, we didn't seem to have as much of a problem.

rcsodak
05-28-2008, 02:12 PM
Talking with a couple of folks in the know, yes his views have changed. He now favors the TE sets to that of the FB.
Rather contradictory to his recent signings, wouldn't you say? :confused:

Ray Finkle
05-28-2008, 03:24 PM
Rather contradictory to his recent signings, wouldn't you say? :confused:

Not really....Graham was a prime example.....I trust this person or people completely....

Ziggy
05-28-2008, 03:37 PM
I think Shanahan has tried, but failed to bring in the right FB. He's tried through FA (Kyle Johnson), UDFA (Powers-Neal), through converting RB's (Sapp), but hasn't found the right man for the job. This year, he's tried through both the draft and FA (Hillis, Larsen, and possibly Pittman).

I'm not sure that his philosiphy ever changed after Griffith left. I think it might be more or less a case of bad personnel decisions. Hopefully one of these guys pan out and we can see more of the old power running game back in Denver. Between beefing up the O-line with Clady and Kuper, and finding a decent FB (if it all pans out), we may just see opponents fear the Broncos running game again.

rcsodak
05-28-2008, 07:10 PM
Not really....Graham was a prime example.....I trust this person or people completely....

That was last year. This is this year. Hillis was brought in. A defensive player is being talked of being put behind cutler. Pittman has played both. I think he's trying to resurrect the position, imho. Not to mention, how many times has he put other players back there....even graham.

Guess we'll see.

TXBRONC
05-28-2008, 07:13 PM
Is it a coincidence that so many players that have played FB are on this year's pre-season roster?

Bell was moved to FB last year as Sapp was a few years earlier. We drafted Hollis and are currently in the process of signing Pittman who played some FB last year. When you add that Larsen is being looked at as a possible fullback it makes me wonder if Mike is thinking of going back to increasing the use of a FB in his offense this year.

It would offer the advantages of strengthening the inside running game, a short yardage power back (without tipping your hand), improving pass blocking, and giving the QB a safety valve to relieve quick pressure from the defense.

I would say he's looking for someone who can be a better lead blocker than what we have had in recent memory.

oubronco
05-28-2008, 10:12 PM
His view of FB has sucked since Griffith retired. Somebody ought to slap him upside his head and tell him that you shouldn't take a HB and convert him to FB. :smack:

1-800-smackahoe

gobroncsnv
05-29-2008, 07:12 AM
Between beefing up the O-line with Clady and Kuper, and finding a decent FB (if it all pans out), we may just see opponents fear the Broncos running game again.

Let's just hope that their fears are well-earned, so that we're not just getting to the red-zone, but into the end-zone. Give me some of them 4th and ones also.

WhatEver!!!
05-29-2008, 08:10 AM
I believe Shanny is trying to go back to what worked for the SuperBowl Years. This will have several advantages;
1. a true FB can plow the road, taking the initial hit instead of the RB which will increase the RB's after the initial hit yardage & help keep the RB health
-- this makes me also think Shanny will have a one back system again. A Terrell Davis with a backup for breathers only -- not a change of pace RB
2. the quickout to the FB. Let's see how many tackles a CB will make on a monster like Hillis
3. quick handoff to the FB in short yardage situations/ goal line
4. more screens to the RB and FB

HolyDiver
05-29-2008, 08:27 AM
Our Fullback needs to be a bigger part of the passing game.............We did this a few years ago even with Kyle Johnson..............Cecil Sapp is a pretty good receiver from the Fullback position.

Dean
05-29-2008, 12:03 PM
During Mike Shanahan's tenure the offense sinks or swims on how well the rushing offense succeeds. Our offense the last two years has been suspect because IMO the rushing offense was weak. We need a true fullback.

Over the last few years the Broncos have tried to use a 2 tight end set to get the added help that teams bringing 8 into the box requires. Though Tony is good receiving tight end, he still is not a strong blocker. A true FB could be the answer to that problem while offering better pass blocking, a safety valve receiver, and a power runner.

If we can get the running game functioning at a high level, the passing game can ride on its' coat tails.

TXBRONC
05-29-2008, 08:46 PM
His view of FB has sucked since Griffith retired. Somebody ought to slap him upside his head and tell him that you shouldn't take a HB and convert him to FB. :smack:

Griffith was converted from halfback to a fullback and Hillis is in the same boat. Albeit Shanahan didn't do the converting but that is what they were at one point or another in their respective careers.

BOSSHOGG30
05-29-2008, 09:31 PM
Hillis is the best full back we've had since Howard Griffith and Detron Smith.

Simple Jaded
05-29-2008, 10:11 PM
Let's just hope that their fears are well-earned, so that we're not just getting to the red-zone, but into the end-zone. Give me some of them 4th and ones also.

Don't worry, the "Metrics" show that those problems were all Chris Myers fault...:D...

EastCoastBronco
05-30-2008, 07:04 AM
Ask TD and Elway how important a tough, durable pass catching fullback is...;-)

elsid13
05-30-2008, 07:30 AM
First HG was not the norm for Shanahan, it was and is the Aaron Carver type of FB. And Hillis is more of Rathman (sp?) type of WC back then he his the power blocker that most are making out to be.

We will continue to see more two TE sets because that balance out the line and Shanahan believes that best offense set against the 3/4 defense. the Larson experiment tells me that Shanahan like the kid and wants him to have play as many position as possible so Shanahan can create depth that he can use else where (i.e. save roster spot for 3 kickers). Just like Turner wanted Bell on the field last year (that will they tried to move him to FB), I expect will see players moving positions to give Shanahan's flexibility in creating player mismatches.

Kaylore
05-30-2008, 09:32 AM
All fine and good. He was turned (not by Shanahan) into a FB as a pro. He had a history as a FB when he came to Denver.

So, while I understand your point, I still think that Mike Shanahan's history of taking HB and using them as FB stinks. The two shouldn't be used interchangably. Hopefully, proof that he has realized this is in Hillis.

The irony of this post is hilarious.

xzn
05-31-2008, 05:47 PM
Hillis is also a converted FB, the reason he converted: Mc Fadden and Felix Jones.

In all reality, almost all FBs are converted RBs.

It's just a matter of wether it happened in Pop Warner, High School, College or the Pros...

TXBRONC
05-31-2008, 11:11 PM
That was last year. This is this year. Hillis was brought in. A defensive player is being talked of being put behind cutler. Pittman has played both. I think he's trying to resurrect the position, imho. Not to mention, how many times has he put other players back there....even graham.

Guess we'll see.

Which by inference means Shanahan isn't satisfied with the way Sapp has played at fullback.

Ziggy
06-01-2008, 02:05 AM
Which by inference means Shanahan isn't satisfied with way Sapp has played at fullback.

Neither am I. Sapp is an average blocker at best.

Npba900
06-01-2008, 09:50 AM
Talking with a couple of folks in the know, yes his views have changed. He now favors the TE sets to that of the FB.

Shanny has used the TE sets more often since Jake was the QB. But the TE alignment has not resulted with consistency.

I think we might see Shanahan going back to utilizing the FB the way the Broncos did back in 96, 97, and 98.

Actually, the current group of FB's we see on the Broncos roster thus far, are also athletic and flexible enough to provide a RBBC option as well.

Npba900
06-01-2008, 09:59 AM
I believe Shanny is trying to go back to what worked for the SuperBowl Years. This will have several advantages;
1. a true FB can plow the road, taking the initial hit instead of the RB which will increase the RB's after the initial hit yardage & help keep the RB health
-- this makes me also think Shanny will have a one back system again. A Terrell Davis with a backup for breathers only -- not a change of pace RB
2. the quickout to the FB. Let's see how many tackles a CB will make on a monster like Hillis
3. quick handoff to the FB in short yardage situations/ goal line
4. more screens to the RB and FB

Whatever, you are spot on! AFter the last two or three seasons with inconcsistencies with FB production and roles, Shanahan knows he now must go back to the blue print from 96, 97, and 98 when utilizing both the FB and TE's within the Broncos West Coast/Zone blocking offensive schemes.

rcsodak
06-02-2008, 11:30 PM
Which by inference means Shanahan isn't satisfied with way Sapp has played at fullback.

Is anybody? :rolleyes:

Let him 'escape' to the faiduhs.....

Dean
06-03-2008, 03:55 PM
I view Sapp as a run of the mill FB. There are better and there are worse. He is a better short yardage runner and pass receiver than he is a true blocking back.

Many teams who pass on the majority of their offensive possessions have gone away from a true FB. That however is not the Broncos offensive scheme.

However, with the Broncos run first offense, IMO we need a man that they can use to lead the ball carrier anywhere from TE to TE and bust it open. To use a TE for that purpose brings safety and OLB alignment changes that stengthens the run defense. To use an H-back that is in motion makes for a flatter (more difficult) blocking angle.

Using a FB with or without motion allows him to more effectively lead the play. Since FBs are converted running backs it is my contention (no stats) that they have a better understanding of who they should block and who the RB can elude without help.

The multiple talent that we have on the roster right now makes me beleive that Shanahan is looking for that combination of run blocker, short yardage runner, pass blocker, and short yardage receiver to bring the offense back up to past standards.