Greg Cosell: Very little of Tim Tebow's game projects to the NFL

[broncofaninfla]

Greg Cosell: Very little of Tim Tebow's game projects to the NFL (http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2010/06/02/greg-cosell-very-little-of-tim-tebows-game-projects-to-the-nfl/)

Posted by Michael David Smith on June 2, 2010 12:55 PM ET
Once the preseason starts, we'll all get to see for ourselves how Tim Tebow (http://www.rotoworld.com/content/playerpages/player_main.aspx?sport=NFL&id=5096) looks in a Denver Broncos uniform, and we won't have to speculate based on the tape of Tebow's games at Florida.

But until then, it's always interesting to see how people who have spent a lot of time studying that tape view Tebow. And Greg Cosell, the creator and executive producer of the NFL Matchup show that we hope has a future on television, came away unimpressed from his own film study of Tebow.

"On film, there is very little in Tebow's game that projects well at this point to the NFL (http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2010/writers/ross_tucker/06/02/greg.cosell/)," Cosell tells Ross Tucker in an interview at SI.com. "I could never draft a quarterback in the first round who does not show on tape the skill set and physical attributes that are demanded in the NFL."

Cosell says that as a passer, Tebow simply isn't on an NFL level.

"Number one, he has questionable and limited arm strength with a slow and ponderous delivery," Cosell said. "Number two, in college he did not throw with timing or anticipation because the offense that he was in did not require it. In the NFL, there are certain throws in certain situations that necessitate that the ball is delivered before his receiver makes his break. He wasn't asked to do that at Florida."

In college Tebow was a threat with his feet as well as his arm, but Cosell says the way Tebow uses his feet doesn't translate well to the NFL, either.

"Thirdly, pocket movement in the NFL is far more important than running," Cosell said. "Pocket movement is the ability to move within the confines of an area about the size of a boxing ring while at the same time maintaining your downfield focus so you can deliver the football. Tebow did not exhibit that trait in college, probably because he was a runner. Nobody is a great NFL quarterback because of the way that they run."

So Cosell doesn't think Tebow has an NFL arm or NFL feet. We take it Broncos coach Josh McDaniels disagrees. And we look forward to finding out who's right when Tebow gets on the field.

[TXBRONC]

I'm not going write him off until such time as he shows himself to be a flop. Mike Mayock likes what he sees in Tebow so I would rather go with his line of thinking.

[broncofaninfla]

I'm not going write him off until such time as he shows himself to be a flop. Mike Mayock likes what he sees in Tebow so rather go with his line of thinking.

I agree. Tebow was a touchdown machine at Florida. He may never be a great conventional passer but in the right offense, one tailored for the skills he does have, he can be a stud in this league as well.

[SOCALORADO.]

great responses to Cosell

Nebster21 says:
June 2, 2010 1:00 PM
So basically Cosell talks up Jason Campbell and he had the same flaws that Tebow has. But Cosell gives JC a break because he had more than one OC. Cosell is a joke.

geek says:
June 2, 2010 1:02 PM
Cosell tells Ross Tucker in an interview at SI.com. "I could never draft a quarterback in the first round who does not show on tape the skill set and physical attributes that are demanded in the NFL."

He;s right about one thing: he could never draft a guy. He isn't in any team's draft war room, and isn't in a position to have to make the decision. It's too early to tell whether the kid will have any success in the NFL. But, some guy who watches a lot of tape is in no position to predict it any better than we are.

Who would be in a better position? McDaniels for one...

[GGMoogly]

:coffee: Ho hum...just another non-believer who, in a few years, will be saying, "Well, I could be wrong...I thought Tebow was going to be a flop."

Oh wait...those guys never say that. :confused:

[silkamilkamonico]

COLOR=white]," Cosell tells Ross Tucker in an interview at SI.com. "I could never draft a quarterback in the first round who does not show on tape the skill set and physical attributes that are demanded in the NFL."


I'm someone who doesn't like Tebow, but this line of thinking is why this guy is a fantasy football "analyst" and NFL films producer and not in an organizational management role.

The skill set? Skill set refers to arm, accuracy, and delivery. Tebow's skill set isn't any worse than a plethora of former NFL first round QB's that have both busted and impacted.

Physical attributes? What, Tebow's 6'3" 246 frame isn't big enough to be a QB? His 4.7 40 isn't fast enough to be a QB? His arm strength certainly isn't "questionable" or "limited", despite what this 'film analyst' is saying. His accuracy certainly isn't a question either, not at Florida.

IMO, the only argument that can be made against Tebow, in which concerns me is cerebrally. Nobody can say he doesn't have the physcial attributes or the skillset, that's preposterous.

[underrated29]

Hey he can draft his guy that looks like tarzan (perfect throwing motion etc) and plays like jane. (no results)


I will be happy with ugly betty (bad throwing motion) who plays like hercules. (only produces the best results)

[TXBRONC]

I'm someone who doesn't like Tebow, but this line of thinking is why this guy is a fantasy football "analyst" and NFL films producer and not in an organizational management role.

The skill set? Skill set refers to arm, accuracy, and delivery. Tebow's skill set isn't any worse than a plethora of former NFL first round QB's that have both busted and impacted.

Physical attributes? What, Tebow's 6'3" 246 frame isn't big enough to be a QB? His 4.7 40 isn't fast enough to be a QB? His arm strength certainly isn't "questionable" or "limited", despite what this 'film analyst' is saying. His accuracy certainly isn't a question either, not at Florida.

IMO, the only argument that can be made against Tebow, in which concerns me is cerebrally. Nobody can say he doesn't have the physcial attributes or the skillset, that's preposterous.

I can't say that he's dumb, McDaniels thinks he has the intellect for the position. I don't know if any of us really can judge his football intellect until we actually can what he can do.

[silkamilkamonico]

I can't say that he's dumb, McDaniels thinks he has the intellect for the position. I don't know any of us really can judge his football intellect until we actually can what he can do.

I don't think Tebow's dumb. I do think playing QB in the NFL requires a unique type of skill, in regards to reading defesives, recognizing blitzes, and making quick decisions (I'll call this a cerebral skill for lack of a better word), and we don't know if Tebow has that skill yet because his offense at Florida never required that.

Most all QB's in the NFL that get drafted have a good skillset. Brandstater is thought to have the best skillset of all 4 of our QB's. It's that cerebral skill that separates QB's. Guys like Akili Smith, Kyle Boller, Cade McKnown, Tim Couch, etc are great examples of that. Look at Brees and his noodle arm, but the guy flat out has that cerebral skill to be great.

[Denver Native (Carol)]

WELL - If Greg Cosell says so - it must be so :rolleyes:

[claymore]

10$ Bucks Champ Bailey chimes in and says he's the best QB he's ever seen. :D

[BCJ]

10$ Bucks Champ Bailey chimes in and says he's the best QB he's ever seen. :D

He does seem to carry the company line but I think he knows not to upset and speak blasphemy of Tebow. Cosell will probably go to hell for his comments. As for yours, what is up with the $ sign after the numerical value?

[TXBRONC]

I don't think Tebow's dumb. I do think playing QB in the NFL requires a unique type of skill, in regards to reading defesives, recognizing blitzes, and making quick decisions (I'll call this a cerebral skill for lack of a better word), and we don't know if Tebow has that skill yet because his offense at Florida never required that.

Most all QB's in the NFL that get drafted have a good skillset. Brandstater is thought to have the best skillset of all 4 of our QB's. It's that cerebral skill that separates QB's. Guys like Akili Smith, Kyle Boller, Cade McKnown, Tim Couch, etc are great examples of that. Look at Brees and his noodle arm, but the guy flat out has that cerebral skill to be great.

I understood what you meant and all those things that you meant are learn able. I do agree that because he did play at Florida it's hard to say whether he has that down or not. According to McDaniels Tebow has the ability to grasp things quickly. At the end of the day the real test will be on the field.

[claymore]

He does seem to carry the company line but I think he knows not to upset and speak blasphemy of Tebow. Cosell will probably go to hell for his comments. As for yours, what is up with the $ sign after the numerical value?

ignorance/poor typing skillz. $

[GGMoogly]

I don't think Tebow's dumb. I do think playing QB in the NFL requires a unique type of skill, in regards to reading defesives, recognizing blitzes, and making quick decisions (I'll call this a cerebral skill for lack of a better word), and we don't know if Tebow has that skill yet because his offense at Florida never required that.

Most all QB's in the NFL that get drafted have a good skillset. Brandstater is thought to have the best skillset of all 4 of our QB's. It's that cerebral skill that separates QB's. Guys like Akili Smith, Kyle Boller, Cade McKnown, Tim Couch, etc are great examples of that. Look at Brees and his noodle arm, but the guy flat out has that cerebral skill to be great.

I'm sorry, but you're being FAR too reasonable. This is the off-season, the time for drinking the Kool-Aid (and beer)! :beer:

[Dreadnought]

ignorance/poor typing skillz. $

Some have accused Clay of being an Idiot/Savant. There is some evidence

As for Cosell? I don't much care what he has to say

[Denver Native (Carol)]

10$ Bucks Champ Bailey chimes in and says he's the best QB he's ever seen. :D

http://www.denverpost.com/broncos/ci_15152086

"They're obviously like polished vets," said Broncos cornerback Champ Bailey. "They're on top of their stuff. It's going to be a good battle but I tell you what, Orton — until he shows anything different — he's my guy."

[weazel]

Greg Cosell: Very little of Tim Tebow's game projects to the NFL (http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2010/06/02/greg-cosell-very-little-of-tim-tebows-game-projects-to-the-nfl/)

Posted by Michael David Smith on June 2, 2010 12:55 PM ET
Once the preseason starts, we'll all get to see for ourselves how Tim Tebow (http://www.rotoworld.com/content/playerpages/player_main.aspx?sport=NFL&id=5096) looks in a Denver Broncos uniform, and we won't have to speculate based on the tape of Tebow's games at Florida.

But until then, it's always interesting to see how people who have spent a lot of time studying that tape view Tebow. And Greg Cosell, the creator and executive producer of the NFL Matchup show that we hope has a future on television, came away unimpressed from his own film study of Tebow.

"On film, there is very little in Tebow's game that projects well at this point to the NFL (http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2010/writers/ross_tucker/06/02/greg.cosell/)," Cosell tells Ross Tucker in an interview at SI.com. "I could never draft a quarterback in the first round who does not show on tape the skill set and physical attributes that are demanded in the NFL."

Cosell says that as a passer, Tebow simply isn't on an NFL level.

"Number one, he has questionable and limited arm strength with a slow and ponderous delivery," Cosell said. "Number two, in college he did not throw with timing or anticipation because the offense that he was in did not require it. In the NFL, there are certain throws in certain situations that necessitate that the ball is delivered before his receiver makes his break. He wasn't asked to do that at Florida."

In college Tebow was a threat with his feet as well as his arm, but Cosell says the way Tebow uses his feet doesn't translate well to the NFL, either.

"Thirdly, pocket movement in the NFL is far more important than running," Cosell said. "Pocket movement is the ability to move within the confines of an area about the size of a boxing ring while at the same time maintaining your downfield focus so you can deliver the football. Tebow did not exhibit that trait in college, probably because he was a runner. Nobody is a great NFL quarterback because of the way that they run."

So Cosell doesn't think Tebow has an NFL arm or NFL feet. We take it Broncos coach Josh McDaniels disagrees. And we look forward to finding out who's right when Tebow gets on the field.

let's hope he's wrong... I didn't like the pick, but I want the guy to do well ...with the Broncos.

[claymore]

http://www.denverpost.com/broncos/ci_15152086

"They're obviously like polished vets," said Broncos cornerback Champ Bailey. "They're on top of their stuff. It's going to be a good battle but I tell you what, Orton — until he shows anything different — he's my guy."


Bailey always says the right thing. Thats why I dont take anything he says seriously. Just like Elway. I love him, but rarely is there any truth in what he says.

[Shazam!]

...that's it. TT should just throw in the towel now because Cosell says he stinks.

[JDL]

I hate when people just start making stuff up to support their argument.

Jason Campbell has a much more refined passing motion, it isn't elongated and his arm strength is very good. His head and feet suck, along with his leadership skills it seems. He is the anti-thesis of Tebow. Someone actually tried to suggest Tebow's motion was the same as Brees... I mean do people actually think or watch football?

Tebow may or may not make it and no reason not to support him, but stop making up stuff.. there isn't a starter in the NFL I can think of that has his throwing motion, except maybe Vince Young, but his is more of a strange shot put motion. Highly accurate QBs have short compact motions (less to throw the ball off its aim) with high release points (prevents tips and roaming defenders from more easily swatting at it.) Tebow is still learning and he isn't going to be able to refine his motion overnight so first and people shouldn't expect that. The hope is that we continue to see the effort put in and the right coaching to get that motion fixed. If anyone can do it, it will be Tebow.

[WARHORSE]

Well, when considering Tebow, I suggest one consider the man behind the scenes: Urban Meyer.


The fact of the matter is, any smart coach is gonna do what gets him wins. Tebows running got him wins on a large scale.


Shouldnt one ask: "Why didnt Urban change Tebows motion right away?"

When Tebow came in, he was playing behind Chris Leak. Leak was the starter/senior. Leak also was a great passer coming out of high school.

However, Tebows running was unbelievable, and Meyer had no choice but to put the man on the field.

There was no need to tinker with Tebow at that time. Leak was the passer, Tebow was the short yardage champ.
More than that...it was EFFECTIVE.

Tebows running was a hammer for Urban. Why change it?

In college, Tebows running and passing was sick. It worked there.

However, had Urban been coaching Tebow in the NFL..........he would have immediately noticed that there needed to be a change.


Can Tebow play QB at warp speed in the NFL? That remains to be seen.
But one thing that doesnt remain to be seen is his effort/leadership/drive/loyalty.

People are always giving guys with off the field issues like Dez Bryant a chance to do something good because of their god given talent.

Why not Tim Tebow, who has the same crazy talent, the guy who does things the right way?

Why chop away at him?


Cosell is an idiot.

Period. :coffee:

[honz]

Phillip Rivers needs to fix his throwing motion as well.

[WARHORSE]

Phillip Rivers needs to fix his throwing motion as well.


AND his forehead.:coffee:

[Denver Native (Carol)]

AND his forehead.:coffee:

You mean, as my signature says -

Sometimes you need a checkup from the neck up

[gobroncsnv]

Makes you wonder if Cosell said Ryan Leaf was can't miss... If he says everybody missed the boat by not drafting Kurt Warner. That Denver really reached by taking Terrell Davis in the 6th round...
Gotta love them expert-fellas...

[dogfish]

Some have accused Clay of being an Idiot/Savant. There is some evidence

As for Cosell? I don't much care what he has to say

when clay talks about champ, it's definitely the idiot part doing the talking. . . .


and as for cosell. . . john gruden said tebow's going to be a badass, and gruden's way cooler than whoever the hell greg cosell is. . . .

[claymore]

when clay talks about champ, it's definitely the idiot part doing the talking. . . .


and as for cosell. . . john gruden said tebow's going to be a badass, and gruden's way cooler than whoever the hell greg cosell is. . . .
We should have never gotten rid of Portis. :cry:

[BHamita15]

"Number one, he has questionable and limited arm strength..."


Ya, criticize Tebow's mechanics and delivery...fine.

To say that he has a limited arm or the "physical skills" for the position is ridiculous. Credibility ruined.

[hamrob]

I think just watching that video of Tebow with John Gruden...shows that Tebow's intelligent. In fact, the guy has such a passion for the game, I'd list his "Football Intelligence" right up there with P. Manning's coming out of Tenn.

I do think he needs alot of work in terms of his accuracy and ability to throw to spots. But, this kid gets it. He'll watch tape of Manning and Brees...and he'll figure it out. It's going to take a couple of years though. I think starting him any sooner than his 3rd year would be pushing it.

I really think that Cutler would have benefited from sitting his entire rookie year...and he was supposedly very pro-ready.

I think both Quinn and Tebow have what it takes.

[hamrob]

I hate when people just start making stuff up to support their argument.

Jason Campbell has a much more refined passing motion, it isn't elongated and his arm strength is very good. His head and feet suck, along with his leadership skills it seems. He is the anti-thesis of Tebow. Someone actually tried to suggest Tebow's motion was the same as Brees... I mean do people actually think or watch football?

Tebow may or may not make it and no reason not to support him, but stop making up stuff.. there isn't a starter in the NFL I can think of that has his throwing motion, except maybe Vince Young, but his is more of a strange shot put motion. Highly accurate QBs have short compact motions (less to throw the ball off its aim) with high release points (prevents tips and roaming defenders from more easily swatting at it.) Tebow is still learning and he isn't going to be able to refine his motion overnight so first and people shouldn't expect that. The hope is that we continue to see the effort put in and the right coaching to get that motion fixed. If anyone can do it, it will be Tebow.I think Tebow's motion is looking pretty good...in fact, it's looking damn good. We need to see if he can stick with it when the bullets are flying...but watch the gruden video...the ball is up by his ear and out of his hand quickly. Reall quickly. Gruden is a QB guru himself and raves about Tebow.

In terms of comparisons....Vince Young's motion is terrible and he hasn't done much to improve it. The best comparison to Tebow in my opinion is Steve Young. Even the throwing motion is somewhat the same. Both are atheletes who can run and have good arms.

The thing that Young eventually was able to accomplish that made him so successful...was he developed very good accuracy with the ball and he became effective in the pocket.

If Tebow can do the same...then, we really have something...but, it's going to take a while.

[Lonestar]

I think Tebow's motion is looking pretty good...in fact, it's looking damn good. We need to see if he can stick with it when the bullets are flying...but watch the gruden video...the ball is up by his ear and out of his hand quickly. Reall quickly. Gruden is a QB guru himself and raves about Tebow.

In terms of comparisons....Vince Young's motion is terrible and he hasn't done much to improve it. The best comparison to Tebow in my opinion is Steve Young. Even the throwing motion is somewhat the same. Both are atheletes who can run and have good arms.

The thing that Young eventually was able to accomplish that made him so successful...was he developed very good accuracy with the ball and he became effective in the pocket.

If Tebow can do the same...then, we really have something...but, it's going to take a while.
sorry just skimmed through this thread could you include the link?

[GGMoogly]

I think Tebow's motion is looking pretty good...in fact, it's looking damn good. We need to see if he can stick with it when the bullets are flying...but watch the gruden video...the ball is up by his ear and out of his hand quickly. Reall quickly. Gruden is a QB guru himself and raves about Tebow.

When was the Gruden video shot? March? You know he's done a ton of work since then. In more recent videos he looked even better. You're right, this kid does get it. He'll be a starter long before his third year!

[hamrob]

sorry just skimmed through this thread could you include the link?

I didn't want to spend alot of time looking for it. It's been a while. Here is a link from one of the other threads. You can watch the other comments on Tebow and then part of the Gruden clip is at the end.

http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/news/story?id=5236931

[hamrob]

When was the Gruden video shot? March? You know he's done a ton of work since then. In more recent videos he looked even better. You're right, this kid does get it. He'll be a starter long before his third year!Yeah, it's been a while. I did see a clip from the Denver Post recently where he was looking really good...looked liked it was becoming more and more natural. But, the Gruden clip was pretty amazing to me. It showed that he could change his motion and that when he did...his motion and release were actually very quick. Also, his drop backs look great. This kid has all the talent and drive to be great. Again, it's just whether he can play in the pocket and become accurate as an NFL passer with guys in his face. That will take time.

[rcsodak]

I'm not going write him off until such time as he shows himself to be a flop. Mike Mayock likes what he sees in Tebow so rather go with his line of thinking.

Along with Jon Gruden, who has nothing but good to say about him.

What coaching experience does Cosell have? Or is he just the illegitimate know-everything son of Howard?

[rcsodak]

He does seem to carry the company line but I think he knows not to upset and speak blasphemy of Tebow. Cosell will probably go to hell for his comments. As for yours, what is up with the $ sign after the numerical value?

..followed by "Bucks", to boot!

[rcsodak]

Phillip Rivers needs to fix his throwing motion as well.

:confused:

But then we'd have one less thing to laugh at?

[HORSEPOWER 56]

I've read stuff by supposed "experts" on both sides of the fence about this one since Tebow won the Heismann Trophy as a sophomore. Everybody has an opinion about every college QB, but guys like Tebow really get scrutinized.

The way I look at it, every QB has to have certain things in order to be successful:

Physical skill. While this is probably the least important characteristic, it's what separates the elite from everyone else. The ability to make all the throws and to make something out of nothing is something that all QBs should possess. Normally, if you were successful on the collegiate level, you meet this criteria.

Mental Toughness. You've got to be that guy who's willing to put in the effort to be the best. You have to have the intestinal fortitude to push on when the going gets tough and put in the time to try to be the best you can be all the time. This is where many QBs like Ryan Leaf and Jamarcus Russell faltered. Neither was willing to put in the time nor could they handle the pressure of being "the guy". Hence, both are unemployed.

Coaching. So many people overlook this aspect of the game. Does anyone think that the majority of these players become who they are by themselves? Do you think it doesn't matter what team drafts them? The advantage of good coaching compared to bad coaching usually mens success or failure in this league. Does anyone think Manning would've become Manning without Tom Moore? He'd still be Manning, but the rate at which he became a top starter and ended up successful was a ton quicker than had he been drafted by say, Cleveland.

Opportunity. Lots of guys don't really get the opportunity to really mature as a pro QB and if they do, the window is so small that if they don't make an immediate impression, it's too late and they get replaced by the current coaching staff trying to keep their job or the new one trying to bring in "their guy".

Right now, Tebow has all of the above needed qualities, IMO so it will be on him. He has athletic ability out the wazoo, obviously has all the drive, desire and maturity in the world, has good coaching (we hope, but everyone out there thinks McDaniels is exactly the guy to coach him), and will have his opportunity but not undue pressure to perform right away.

He's also not on a crap team that doesn't know what it means to win.

I think he'd almost have to try to fail...

[TXBRONC]

When was the Gruden video shot? March? You know he's done a ton of work since then. In more recent videos he looked even better. You're right, this kid does get it. He'll be a starter long before his third year!

I think it was March that Gruden's video was shot but I don't recall for sure.

[Broncolingus]

Fu*k Greg Cosell...

...dude is a Bronco's QB, hasn't played a down, and has my support until proven otherwise.

Go F-yourself Greg!