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BOSSHOGG30
05-21-2008, 03:40 PM
Tony Scheffler is wearing a protective boot over his re-injured left foot during Broncos OTAs and will miss at least the next month.

It's the same foot Scheffler broke last offseason and contributed to his extremely slow start to his regular season. He's reportedly experiencing "recurring soreness." It doesn't sound like the team is considering more surgery yet. Scheffler practiced on Monday, but has been held out of OTAs since.
Source: Denver Post

http://www.denverpost.com/ci_9335501?source=rss

red98
05-21-2008, 03:42 PM
A year later, Broncos tight end Tony Scheffler continues to be bothered by a left foot injury.

Two NFL sources said Scheffler is wearing a boot on his foot and will be out four weeks after experiencing recurring soreness in the foot he broke during last year's passing camp.

A second-round draft choice in 2006 and Jay Cutler's favorite target near the end of his rookie season, Scheffler's second season was almost halted before it started. While running a route during the team's passing camp workout on May 21, 2007, Scheffler suffered a fractured fifth metacarpal on his left foot.

Surgery repaired the break, with a screw implanted in the bone that leads to the small toe. Although Scheffler recovered in time for the team's season opener last year, he started slowly, not catching his first pass until the fifth game and he later said he dealt with soreness in the surgically repaired area throughout the season.

He was one of the league's most productive tight ends in the final 12 games, however, and finished with 49 catches for 549 yards and five touchdowns.

Scheffler participated in the Broncos' first offseason workout Monday, but has not been on the field since.

http://www.denverpost.com/broncos/ci_9335501

GEM
05-21-2008, 03:42 PM
Mother-friggen-trucker!!! :tsk:

BroncoBuff
05-21-2008, 03:43 PM
Arghgh#$#^@#*@

elsid13
05-21-2008, 03:46 PM
Well that sucks. Anubis suit up you be kicking and doing a little TE on side.

dogfish
05-21-2008, 03:49 PM
well that friggin' blows! :tsk:

Acedude
05-21-2008, 03:50 PM
That is not something I wanted to hear.

red98
05-21-2008, 03:50 PM
Looks like BOSS beat me to it with this thread.

http://www.broncosforums.com/forums/showthread.php?t=14524


Hope it heals up soon for Sheff.

NightTrainLayne
05-21-2008, 03:56 PM
What do they have going on in the training room? Who's doing the "treatments"?

Everyone seems to want to be there lately.

denver5459
05-21-2008, 03:57 PM
Well, atleast we have Nate Jackson! Son of a b**ch!!!

G_Money
05-21-2008, 04:04 PM
Scheff may get himself run out of town like Putzier did if he can't stay on the field.

Here's hoping it's not another surgery situation.

~G

Timmy!
05-21-2008, 04:07 PM
Uggh. Not again. If it doesn't require surgery, (IF) then it's just a minor setback. He has 3 months to heal.

Somebody in Dove Valley needs to buy some Raid. That injury bug MUST DIE!

LRtagger
05-21-2008, 04:08 PM
:help:

honz
05-21-2008, 04:11 PM
That is just fantabulous...

topscribe
05-21-2008, 04:17 PM
Well, it looks as if 2008 is just going to be an extension of 2007 . . . http://i258.photobucket.com/albums/hh256/AZDynamics/Smilies/thdissappointed.gif

-----

Kaylore
05-21-2008, 04:26 PM
Arghgh#$#^@#*@

Seriously.

shank
05-21-2008, 04:27 PM
apparently there is a god, and he hates the broncos.

GEM
05-21-2008, 04:28 PM
apparently there is a god, and he hates the broncos.

Go kick him in the .... and tell him to knock it off.

Dortoh
05-21-2008, 04:29 PM
Well looking at the bright side the window is open now for my boy Mustard.

GEM
05-21-2008, 04:36 PM
Well looking at the bright side the window is open now for my boy Mustard.

Is he cut or on the team this week? :confused:

NameUsedBefore
05-21-2008, 04:38 PM
apparently there is a god, and he hates the broncos.

The Football Gods must be appeased... I say we sacrifice Chad Mustard.

WhatEver!!!
05-21-2008, 04:59 PM
the article stated he felt the injury during the season so I say he better play hurt. He did pretty dam_ good at the end of the year; after he got it loose.

broncosfanscott
05-21-2008, 05:09 PM
Go kick him in the .... and tell him to knock it off.

Yeah, No $@#%.

I don't wish an injury on anybody, however why can't this happen to a player that isn't a starter.

Stargazer
05-21-2008, 05:41 PM
Tony Scheffler is wearing a protective boot over his re-injured left foot during Broncos OTAs and will miss at least the next month.

It's the same foot Scheffler broke last offseason and contributed to his extremely slow start to his regular season. He's reportedly experiencing "recurring soreness." It doesn't sound like the team is considering more surgery yet. Scheffler practiced on Monday, but has been held out of OTAs since.
Source: Denver Post

http://www.denverpost.com/ci_9335501?source=rss

Oh boy, you have to got be kidding me.

BroncoNut
05-21-2008, 05:52 PM
Oh boy, you have to got be kidding me.

that's no good. I may not be as versed on this team as many, but it seems to have its woes. Many years before we see any viable contention from this team in the league imo; one that is based on more than than this injury alone.

sportsfan, signing off

3090
05-21-2008, 05:53 PM
Go kick him in the .... and tell him to knock it off.

Kick him in the balls?

I am glad to see you concede that God is a male. :D

BroncoNut
05-21-2008, 05:54 PM
Kick him in the balls?

I am glad to see you concede that God is a male. :D

I think she meant shin

shank
05-21-2008, 05:59 PM
"i'll kick you in the nyutz!"
-eric cartman

ECBronco
05-21-2008, 06:08 PM
I'm REALLY hoping that Scheffler just pushed it too hard this offseason and with some rest he can go 100% by training camp. He obviously has a chance to be a huge part of the offense this year.

cmhargrove
05-21-2008, 07:00 PM
I really wanted a great year for Tony, but the fact is - he's not our best anything. Not our best TE blocker, not our best slot receiver. I wish him the best, and I hope he is 100% by training camp, but we have too many weapons to get worried at this point.

I honestly believe Graham can be a receiving weapon if he isn't forced to pick up the slack for a sub-par O-line. We'll be fine here folks. Best wishes to Scheff, get well soon.

frauschieze
05-21-2008, 07:04 PM
I have been wondering about our strength and conditioning program for a while now. It seems that in recent years, we've had more than our share of injuries and we're more run down as the season progresses than we should be. Now, the first mini-camp isn't even over yet and there are already injuries to two significant players. What the hell is going on down there? The Greek's been there forever, but something MUST have changed.

BroncoNut
05-21-2008, 07:54 PM
I have been wondering about our strength and conditioning program for a while now. It seems that in recent years, we've had more than our share of injuries and we're more run down as the season progresses than we should be. Now, the first mini-camp isn't even over yet and there are already injuries to two significant players. What the hell is going on down there? The Greek's been there forever, but something MUST have changed.

good post. There is something wrong there,.

pnbronco
05-21-2008, 08:22 PM
Noooooo. I can't believe it, he was coming back so strong. Well I hope they are keeping him out as a precaution....

TXBRONC
05-21-2008, 08:29 PM
The news could be worse than it is.

claymore
05-21-2008, 08:34 PM
Tony Scheffler is wearing a protective boot over his re-injured left foot during Broncos OTAs and will miss at least the next month.

It's the same foot Scheffler broke last offseason and contributed to his extremely slow start to his regular season. He's reportedly experiencing "recurring soreness." It doesn't sound like the team is considering more surgery yet. Scheffler practiced on Monday, but has been held out of OTAs since.
Source: Denver Post

http://www.denverpost.com/ci_9335501?source=rss

Same luck............ Different season.......... SHIT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

gobroncsnv
05-21-2008, 10:27 PM
Just a question, does he get a pass, or does he get the same treatment that THenry gets for not being able to stay on the field? I'm just sayin....

TXBRONC
05-21-2008, 10:28 PM
Guys, right now it sound like this is just a precautionary move.

pnbronco
05-21-2008, 10:46 PM
I think they need to move, the Avs too. You would think the practice place is on a ancient burial ground lately. The Broncos last year, then half the Avs this year and the Broncos are starting up again. TX I'm really hoping you're right and they just don't want to stress too much esp since it's the 1st camp...

TUG
05-21-2008, 11:06 PM
someone needs to sacrifice a chicken. Or find out if there is a chiefs jersey buried at invesco

O-ManePunisher
05-21-2008, 11:08 PM
He'll be fine....

TXBRONC
05-21-2008, 11:52 PM
I think they need to move, the Avs too. You would think the practice place is on a ancient burial ground lately. The Broncos last year, then half the Avs this year and the Broncos are starting up again. TX I'm really hoping you're right and they just don't want to stress too much esp since it's the 1st camp...

We'll know soon enough. Thankfully we do have Graham who more than capable of catching 40 passes.

BMF Bronco
05-22-2008, 12:01 AM
Son of a bitch, at this rate we're not going to have anyone to catch the damn ball this year!

O-ManePunisher
05-22-2008, 12:08 AM
Son of a bitch, at this rate we're not going to have anyone to catch the damn ball this year!

Don't worry I'll try out,I'm 6'1 and i run a 5.23 on the 40 :D Plus i have great hands... I never dropped my cell phone ever in my life.

BMF Bronco
05-22-2008, 12:21 AM
okay my worries are no longer there

BroncoJunkie
05-22-2008, 12:27 AM
Dear football Gods, we've already endured our fair share of injuries last year. Could you please focus your attention elsewhere, like Oakland , or better yet Sandy eggo.:fish2:

dogfish
05-22-2008, 01:15 AM
Just a question, does he get a pass, or does he get the same treatment that THenry gets for not being able to stay on the field? I'm just sayin....

he's appeared in 29 of 32 possible games in his career so far-- honestly, i can't remember for sure if he missed time due to injury his rookie season, or whether he simply wasn't used in those games. . . but i kinda think it was the latter. . .


these offseason injuries suck, and in my mind the missed time during TC definitely slowed his development last year. . . there's no denying, this is a cause for some concern-- but not panic, at least not until we know exactly what's wrong, and how much time he's going to miss. . . jeremy shockey had some similar problems with recurring foot injuries earlier in his career, and he eventually had to have pins screwed into it. . . may have slowed him down a bit, but he's still had a solid career post-op. . . hopefully this is something the chef can work through. . .

so, no pass if he starts missing significant game time, but he's not exactly at nate jackson status just yet. . . henry is certainly catching more flack because of his off-field issues, but in a way i think that's fair-- he brought his own problems on himself with poor decision making, especially the fight against the suspension. . . however, the main issue there-- IMO-- is that henry has a substantial record of missing a lot of games, or being hampered by injury and ineffective. . . luckily, chef hasn't had that problem yet. . . we'll see what happens going forward. . .

Watchthemiddle
05-22-2008, 01:20 AM
Its May....

If he is not on the field in September or October....then there is cause for concern.

Other than that, lets move on

:coffee:

GEM
05-22-2008, 08:59 AM
Kick him in the balls?

I am glad to see you concede that God is a male. :D

I could care less if God is male or female...doesn't really matter in my grand scheme of things. ;) Either way....a swift kick is deserved. :lol:

BOSSHOGG30
05-22-2008, 11:18 AM
Though initial tests were inconclusive, the Broncos reportedly fear that Tony Scheffler may have a small fracture in his sore foot.

The team is playing it safe by holding him out until training camp, but if true, this would be Scheffler's second break in as many offseasons. Scheffler will be in a protective walking boot for at least the next four weeks.
Source: Denver Post

BroncoBuff
05-22-2008, 04:23 PM
Just watched Shanahan's press conference, and he was very nonchalant about it. He said it was the same injury, but that it was basically "just sore." He added that Scheff had the same soreness/flareup twice during the season, but played through it. Greek told him this is a similar flareup, but because it's offseason they went to a boot to help him mend.

Fingers crossed.

haroldthebarrel
05-22-2008, 04:58 PM
i dont see all that too worry about this situation. he should be able to go in training camp and thats what really counts.

now, he could be one of those players that wont reach his ceiling due to injuries.
at least he developed that after the draft so we didnt draft an injury risk, but then again whats left is to get what we can off him. we have so many questionmarks right now so another one doesnt make much difference.

as Buff says, fingers crossed and lets just hope he got the opportunity to rehab before the real season and training camp start this time.

Nature Boy
05-22-2008, 05:13 PM
He sucks. He's injury prone. Get him out of here. Lets get Jeremy Shockey in his place.

Inkana7
05-22-2008, 05:17 PM
He sucks. He's injury prone. Get him out of here. Lets get Jeremy Shockey in his place.

Riiight.

Maybe you should get back to your Halo 3 clan now.

GEM
05-22-2008, 05:17 PM
He sucks. He's injury prone. Get him out of here. Lets get Jeremy Shockey in his place.

I can't tell if you are serious or just saying this because nobody sticks up for your boy Travis. :laugh:

Pot, meet kettle.

Nature Boy
05-22-2008, 05:53 PM
Am I serious? Yes and no. Only reason Shockey would be a stretch his high salary cap and the fact that Bowlen's got a tight grip on his wallet. I just don't think the Broncos can afford 2 high priced TEs.

Other than that, Shockey would be that tough over the middle 50-60 receptions and 6-7 TD TE that Sharpe was.

GEM
05-22-2008, 05:59 PM
Am I serious? Yes and no. Only reason Shockey would be a stretch his high salary cap and the fact that Bowlen's got a tight grip on his wallet. I just don't think the Broncos can afford 2 high priced TEs.

Other than that, Shockey would be that tough over the middle 50-60 receptions and 6-7 TD TE that Sharpe was.

With the attitude problem or without? I dunno, his play got absolutely matched by a rookie in NY. I think he may be another of the high priced has beens. :shrugs:

Nature Boy
05-22-2008, 06:12 PM
With the attitude problem or without? I dunno, his play got absolutely matched by a rookie in NY. I think he may be another of the high priced has beens. :shrugs:

Absolutely matched? What rookie? Kevin Boss? David Tyree? who caught the lucky catch that helped win them the Super Bowl? One lucky catch and he matched Skockey's play? Look at the stats lady. Kevin Boss, Shockey's replacement got 9 receptions and 2 TDs, playing in 13 games, 8 receptions of which were when Shockey went down in mid Dec. Despite sitting out early in the season, Shockey still managed 57 catches.

Shockey is a loud mouth egomaniac trash talker to his opponents and to the press but on the field, he's one of the hardest workers. Since Tom Cofflin got to NY, Shockey's catches went down as he's been asked to block a lot more. Shockey wasn't quiet about it but this is NY, the media is all over the place and they all talk, Tiki, Strahan, Burress, they all do, especially when they were losing a lot up until the end of last season.

Believe me, Shockey and Graham in a double TE set would put every D-Coordinator in the league in a petrified state.

BroncoBuff
05-22-2008, 07:07 PM
JUST SAY NO


to Jeremy Shockey.

Inkana7
05-22-2008, 07:45 PM
It's irrelevant anyways. Denver is not looking for TEs, and Shockey will never sniff Denver.

TXBRONC
05-22-2008, 10:14 PM
I don't think Shockey would be good fit here besides the fact he's not coming.

Ziggy
05-23-2008, 08:22 AM
The Giants became a better team went Shockey stayed on the sideline. He's a talented, overbearing, cancer. As soon as he got injured, the Giants chemistry improved on the field, and they took off. Just say no to Shockey.

ECBronco
05-23-2008, 09:00 AM
Not sure if this was posted yet...

http://www.rockymountainnews.com/news/2008/may/22/scheffler-out-least-two-weeks/

Positives in Scheffler's X-rays; protective boot next


The good news for Broncos tight end Tony Scheffler is apparently there's no new damage to his ailing left foot.

But he will miss at least two weeks while the foot is encased in a protective boot before he's re-examined by the team's medical staff.

And the fact he's experiencing continuing discomfort a year after surgery has proved disheartening to Scheffler, who went through a rigorous routine in the winter to prepare himself to fully participate in all three Broncos minicamps while in the best possible shape.

"We know there's not another break in there," coach Mike Shanahan said Thursday. "You can see that on the X-rays. But there's something in there that keeps him quite sore, and, hopefully, with a couple weeks in the boot, he'll come back full speed and we don't aggravate the injury."

Scheffler broke the fifth metatarsal May 21, 2007, and a screw was inserted to stabilize the area.

He returned in mid-August after a stint on the physically unable to perform list but didn't play the first month of the 2007 season. When he did return, he experienced residual soreness and had difficulty planting and cutting, but he fought through those symptoms to be a top offensive weapon the final two months.

Scheffler had hoped to be pain free this season but instead has been shut down, a precautionary move to maintain his likely availability for training camp.

The team hopes he'll be able to resume full activities in June after getting back into cardiovascular shape.

"He feels like, 'What am I doing wrong for this to happen?' " said Broncos tight end Nate Jackson, who is returning from a groin injury that ruined his fast start in 2007. "It's the same time as last year, the same play. But I feel for him. He's a friend of mine, and I don't like to see him dealing with this. He'll be fine, though. It's not as bad as it was last year, I don't think."

MOtorboat
05-23-2008, 09:02 AM
Not sure if this was posted yet...

http://www.rockymountainnews.com/news/2008/may/22/scheffler-out-least-two-weeks/

Positives in Scheffler's X-rays; protective boot next

:banghead:

GEM
05-23-2008, 09:16 AM
Absolutely matched? What rookie? Kevin Boss? David Tyree? who caught the lucky catch that helped win them the Super Bowl? One lucky catch and he matched Skockey's play? Look at the stats lady. Kevin Boss, Shockey's replacement got 9 receptions and 2 TDs, playing in 13 games, 8 receptions of which were when Shockey went down in mid Dec. Despite sitting out early in the season, Shockey still managed 57 catches.

Shockey is a loud mouth egomaniac trash talker to his opponents and to the press but on the field, he's one of the hardest workers. Since Tom Cofflin got to NY, Shockey's catches went down as he's been asked to block a lot more. Shockey wasn't quiet about it but this is NY, the media is all over the place and they all talk, Tiki, Strahan, Burress, they all do, especially when they were losing a lot up until the end of last season.

Believe me, Shockey and Graham in a double TE set would put every D-Coordinator in the league in a petrified state.


If Boss didn't match Shockey, NY wouldn't be shopping him. I don't think he's the direction we are going. That's just my thoughts. Bowlen has already said we're not breaking the bank on FA's anymore. Could it be scary good, yea....but worth it...who knows. The guy who signs the paychecks obviously doesn't think so.

When you have a young guy asking a lot less money able to come in and transition a star out...that says something. Shockey, as good as he was, is aging and demanding the bigger money.

BOSSHOGG30
05-23-2008, 01:57 PM
"Word inside the Broncos' facility" is that Tony Scheffler (foot) is fully expected to be healthy for training camp, according to ESPN's Bill Williamson.

Scheffler was also fully expected to not re-injur his foot during spring work, so this means little. Still, the Broncos apparently think Scheffler is just sore and could use the rest. With question marks at the No. 2 wide receiver position, he is an extremely important part of their offense.
Source: Hashmarks Blog

elsid13
05-23-2008, 04:43 PM
I wonder if this isn't the result of over training. That one thing that people forget sometimes the body needs a while to recover, and Scheff, Cutler and Marshall didn't take that long off before they started training again after the off season began.

Lonestar
05-23-2008, 04:52 PM
I wonder if this isn't the result of over training. That one thing that people forget sometimes the body needs a while to recover, and Scheff, Cutler and Marshall didn't take that long off before they started training again after the off season began.

I thought about that also but until training camp, nothing was mentioned about his foot being sore..

If it were he should have raised his hand and said something.. Must be a case of tough guy syndrome going around.

Nature Boy
05-23-2008, 05:07 PM
If Boss didn't match Shockey, NY wouldn't be shopping him. I don't think he's the direction we are going. That's just my thoughts. Bowlen has already said we're not breaking the bank on FA's anymore. Could it be scary good, yea....but worth it...who knows. The guy who signs the paychecks obviously doesn't think so.

When you have a young guy asking a lot less money able to come in and transition a star out...that says something. Shockey, as good as he was, is aging and demanding the bigger money.

Wow, such blind generalizing. Lady, if only you knew. Jeremy Shockey is 27 yrs old, in his prime, he's been selected to the pro-bowl 4/6 times since his rookie yr in 2002. He missed the 2004 pro-bowl cause Tom Coughlin stepped in and took him off the offensive play book. He missed the 2007 pro-bowl cause a broken leg ended his season early, yet he still got 57 catches.

It's not NY that is shopping him, it's Shockey who wants to be traded(maybe Shockey has a problem that the team won a SB w/o him? who knows), particularly to the Saints, to his old Offensive Coordinator Sean Peyton who will utilize his pass catching skills more so than Coughlin, who uses him mainly as a blocker. Shockey also said that by going to NO to play for Sean Peyton would extend his career a couple of yrs cause he wouldn't have to block so much. As far as wanting more money, Shockey is already the league's highest paid TE, but if a renegotiated contract is called for a friendlier cap and money money up front, do you blame him?

I wish people would look into a player's situation instead of just generalizing any high profile player as being old, bad cancerous, etc.

Den21vsBal19
05-25-2008, 03:41 AM
I wonder if this isn't the result of over training. That one thing that people forget sometimes the body needs a while to recover, and Scheff, Cutler and Marshall didn't take that long off before they started training again after the off season began.
Liverpool defender Daniel Agger broke a metatarsal back in September, with a projected recovery of 6-8 weeks...........

After a few attempted returns, including playing full games for the reserves and being an unused substitute in the league, and subsequent breakdowns, he was found to have a bone fragment floating around........................I just wonder if Scheff had got the same problem

Ziggy
05-25-2008, 08:06 AM
Wow, such blind generalizing. Lady, if only you knew. Jeremy Shockey is 27 yrs old, in his prime, he's been selected to the pro-bowl 4/6 times since his rookie yr in 2002. He missed the 2004 pro-bowl cause Tom Coughlin stepped in and took him off the offensive play book. He missed the 2007 pro-bowl cause a broken leg ended his season early, yet he still got 57 catches.

It's not NY that is shopping him, it's Shockey who wants to be traded(maybe Shockey has a problem that the team won a SB w/o him? who knows), particularly to the Saints, to his old Offensive Coordinator Sean Peyton who will utilize his pass catching skills more so than Coughlin, who uses him mainly as a blocker. Shockey also said that by going to NO to play for Sean Peyton would extend his career a couple of yrs cause he wouldn't have to block so much. As far as wanting more money, Shockey is already the league's highest paid TE, but if a renegotiated contract is called for a friendlier cap and money money up front, do you blame him?

I wish people would look into a player's situation instead of just generalizing any high profile player as being old, bad cancerous, etc.


I have watched him play, and yes, he's a cancer. He whines when he doesn't get the ball enough. He blames his QB when things are going bad, and he has a case of the dropsies. He's talented, overpaid, and his ego is bigger than TO's. The Giants offense came together when they finally got him off the field. Now he's the highest paid TE in the league and he wants to go to another team so he won't have to block so much, and you want him here? :confused:

Nature Boy
05-25-2008, 03:53 PM
Shockey is a better blocker and receiver than Sheffler can ever dream to become.

WhatEver!!!
05-25-2008, 03:58 PM
Shockey is a better blocker and receiver than Sheffler can ever dream to become.

You may be correct in your assessment about Scheffler but the main difference is that Tony will take his assignment like a man, Shockey will cry about his assignment.

I would take a good player over a outstanding player everytime if the latter is a headcase.

Nature Boy
05-25-2008, 04:30 PM
Well, right now, that player you'll rather take can't even get on the field.

TXBRONC
05-25-2008, 09:35 PM
Wow, such blind generalizing. Lady, if only you knew. Jeremy Shockey is 27 yrs old, in his prime, he's been selected to the pro-bowl 4/6 times since his rookie yr in 2002. He missed the 2004 pro-bowl cause Tom Coughlin stepped in and took him off the offensive play book. He missed the 2007 pro-bowl cause a broken leg ended his season early, yet he still got 57 catches.

It's not NY that is shopping him, it's Shockey who wants to be traded(maybe Shockey has a problem that the team won a SB w/o him? who knows), particularly to the Saints, to his old Offensive Coordinator Sean Peyton who will utilize his pass catching skills more so than Coughlin, who uses him mainly as a blocker. Shockey also said that by going to NO to play for Sean Peyton would extend his career a couple of yrs cause he wouldn't have to block so much. As far as wanting more money, Shockey is already the league's highest paid TE, but if a renegotiated contract is called for a friendlier cap and money money up front, do you blame him?

I wish people would look into a player's situation instead of just generalizing any high profile player as being old, bad cancerous, etc.

There is no generalization here NB Shockey has been very disruptive for quite some time now.

By the way, GEM has quite a bit of football savvy.

slim
05-25-2008, 09:38 PM
Shockey sucks.

TXBRONC
05-25-2008, 09:38 PM
Well, right now, that player you'll rather take can't even get on the field.

Scheffler is being held out of OTAs as precautionary measure.

Nature Boy
05-25-2008, 09:48 PM
There is no generalization here NB Shockey has been very disruptive for quite some time now.

By the way, GEM has quite a bit of football savvy.

That's your opinion Tx, not mine. To say that Jeremy Shockey is on the decline at 27yrs old, well, the statement speaks for itself and anyone that knows football knows it's way off.

Nature Boy
05-25-2008, 09:49 PM
Shockey sucks.

O does he? Did you see his stats the 6 yrs he's been in the league?

I bet whoever he plays for next yr, he'll get at least 65 receptions and 7 TDs. You can't say that about Sheffler, can you?

slim
05-25-2008, 10:07 PM
O does he? Did you see his stats the 6 yrs he's been in the league?

I bet whoever he plays for next yr, he'll get at least 65 receptions and 7 TDs. You can't say that about Sheffler, can you?

Last year your boy had 57 and 3. Schef had 49 and 5. For 2008, I will take Schef.

Nature Boy
05-25-2008, 10:22 PM
Shockey also ended his season early with a broken leg. You could have easily added another 10-15 receptions and 1-2 TDs to Shockey's stats had he played the whole season. Sheffler played all 16 games.

On top of that, Shockey is a better blocker and in NY, Shockey's main duty is to block. In Denver, Sheffler is the passing TE while Danial Graham is the blocking TE.

Should I pull out career stats for the 2 TEs and so an A-B comparison? I thought so.
Shockey is a better blocker, receiver, route runner, tough guy, all of the above.

Yes he is vocal and at times disruptive towards the coaches but the same time, if your team is losing and you the play maker is not getting the ball, wouldn't you be upset?

I think that is apart of being a team leader. If the coach and play calling is in question, then question it. Jeremy shocker's fiery attitude is a plus in my opinion.

Requiem / The Dagda
05-25-2008, 10:36 PM
I'm not seeing where you have the actual liberty to make those claims on Shockey in comparison to Scheffler considering the fact you don't have game tape that you can actually analyze to compare the two.

dogfish
05-25-2008, 11:17 PM
I'm not seeing where you have the actual liberty to make those claims on Shockey in comparison to Scheffler considering the fact you don't have game tape that you can actually analyze to compare the two.

well, shockey scored 3 TDs in 14 games, and nature boy says he would have scored 1-2 more if he'd played 2 more games-- if he can make that claim, i suppose he can claim anything he wants. . . :lol:


just like i can claim that chef would have had 1,500 yards and 20 TDs if he'd started all 16 games. . . and it would mean just as much. . .


but seriously, didn't you know? shockey's the bigger name, that means he's better in every aspect of the game. . .

forget the fact that shockey came from one of the biggest football programs in the nation and has six seasons under his belt, while chef came from a small school and has only two. . . that has nothing to do with shockey's career production being higher, and the difference in name recognition. . .


ahh, but wait! shockey was targeted 97 times last year (9% of their total pass attempts), including 11 in the red zone-- while chef was targeted only 67 times (6%), 7 in the red zone. . . yet chef produced very comparable numbers, with more TDs. . . do i need to look up their respective salaries? probably not. . . now who's the more efficient player? which one is producing more bang for the buck?

granted, shockey is a better run blocker at this point-- which should be no surprise, as most TEs take time to develop that skill at the pro level. . . of course, shockey is also good for about a dozen bone-headed holding and personal foul penalties a year. . .


in any case, this is a moot discussion, brought about solely because of another nature boy man-crush. . . with the money we have invested in graham, there's about zero percent chance that denver would go after shockey. . .

Nature Boy
05-25-2008, 11:45 PM
Shockey was rookie of the year as well as pro-bowler in 2002. He has been named to the pro-bowl every year, missing only 2004 due to a coaching/offesnive system change, and last year because of injury. Sheffler hasn't made a pro-bowl appearance is 2 years in the league and he is not expected to be named this year. (please don't tell me the pro-bowl does not mean anything, because even though at times it is a popularity contest and some guys are mistakenly left out, more times than not, it's pretty accurate as who belongs there and who doesn't. Just look at the stats.

Do I have to start a poll to see who is the consensus better TE even in a Broncos forum, Scheffler or Shockey? I rest my case.

Ziggy
05-25-2008, 11:51 PM
Do I have to start a poll to see who is the consensus better TE even in a Broncos forum, Scheffler or Shockey? I rest my case.

I'll take Scheffler, you can have Shockey, and his constant drops, disruptions, and penalties.

Nature Boy
05-26-2008, 12:25 AM
Do I have to start a poll to see who is the consensus better TE even in a Broncos forum, Scheffler or Shockey? I rest my case.


I'll take Scheffler, you can have Shockey, and his constant drops, disruptions, and penalties.


The question was not who you'll take using your Homerist views, the question was who is the better TE, Shockey or Sheffler?

and I've never heard of Shockey to have questionable hands pertaining to drop passes. Do you have stats proving that Shockey dropped more passes that Sheffler in ratio and in total? Unless you do, let's not make baseless accusations like that Zig.

Also, where's these stats that show Shockey is a chronic yellow flag magnet. Are you saying he's constantly jumping off sides? Are you saying he's constantly drawing the yellow flag for unsportsmanlike conduct? Other than blind generalizations of Shockey and his reputation, I don't see how you came up with your baseless statement.

Ziggy
05-26-2008, 01:02 AM
http://www.footballguys.com/05spotlight-ShocJe00.php
To hear the New York media tell it, Jeremy Shockey was a colossal disappointment last year. Yet, the 3rd year tight end from Miami caught 61 receptions for 666 yards and 6 touchdowns. To be fair, Shockey's 2004 season wasn't as good as his numbers indicate. He had more dropped passes than any other tight end, and was unable to practice much of the season due to lingering injuries

http://www.nytimes.com/2004/09/23/sports/football/23giants.html
It is not just that Shockey has seven less-than-memorable receptions for 75 yards in two games, plus several notable dropped passes.


http://ind.scout.com/2/706647.htmlHow does Clark compare to some of the other top tight ends around the league this year? At a 16-percent drop rate of catchable balls, not so well. San Diego's Antonio Gates is setting the high bar amongst this group with just 1.6 percent of catchable passes dropped. Other top tight ends include Kansas City's Tony Gonzalez (4.6 percent), Cleveland's Kellen Winslow (6.1 percent), the Giants' Jeremy Shockey (7.1 percent), and Cowboys tight end Jason Witten (9.2 percent).

http://www.nytimes.com/2005/08/02/sports/football/02giants.html
Yes, he led the Giants in receptions last season with 61 and had his most touchdown catches, 6, but dropped a lot of passes and failed to make the Pro Bowl for the first time.

Ziggy
05-26-2008, 01:07 AM
Here's a non-homeristic view of tight end efficiency rankings by Football Outsiders:

http://www.footballoutsiders.com/stats/te.php

TE: Choose Another Year 2007 2006 2005 2004 2003 2002 2001 2000 2007: Choose Another Position 2007 QB 2007 RB 2007 WR 2007 TE 2007 OL 2007 DL

Tight ends are ranked according to DPAR, or Defense-adjusted Points Above Replacement. This number represents the total number of points scored due to plays where this TE caught the ball, compared to a replacement-level TE in the same game situations. DPAR (and its cousin, PAR, which isn't adjusted based on opponent) is further explained here.

The other statistic given is DVOA, or Defense-adjusted Value Over Average. This number represents value, per play, over an average TE in the same game situations. The more positive the DVOA rating, the better the player's performance. DVOA (and its cousin, VOA, which isn't adjusted based on opponent) is further explained here.

DPAR and DVOA include all passes intended for the receiver, both complete and incomplete. Catch % represents the percentage of passes to this receiver completed. This is a reference to incomplete passes, not dropped passes: dropped passes are not specified in publicly available play-by-play, and unfortunately we cannot yet correct for this.

We cannot yet fully separate the performance of a receiver from the performance of his quarterback. Be aware that one will affect the other.
These statistics measure only passes thrown to the tight end, not performance on plays when he is not thrown the ball, such as blocking and drawing double teams.
"Points scored due to plays" is based on a larger model of how yards are translated into points, and is not a measurement strictly of touchdown passes.
All fumbles are considered equal, whether recovered by the offense or defense.
Please note that due to his usage patterns, Dallas Clark of Indianapolis will be listed as a wide receiver for 2007.
The simple version: DPAR means a tight end with more total value. DVOA means a tight end with more value per play.

RECEIVING: Minimum 25 passes, 42 players ranked
Player Team DPAR DPAR
Rank PAR PAR
Rank DVOA DVOA
Rank VOA Passes Yards TD Catch
%
85-A.Gates SD 33.7 1 34.9 1 34.8% 2 36.9% 117 984 9 64%
82-J.Witten DAL 31.7 2 27.8 2 23.8% 9 18.8% 141 1145 8 68%
88-T.Gonzalez KC 23.9 3 26.3 3 11.9% 18 14.8% 154 1172 6 64%
83-H.Miller PIT 23.8 4 24.8 4 49.5% 1 52.8% 61 566 7 77%
80-K.Winslow CLE 19.9 5 19.4 5 9.5% 21 8.9% 148 1111 5 55%
47-C.Cooley WAS 19.2 6 18.2 6 15.9% 12 14.3% 110 786 8 60%
81-O.Daniels HOU 16.1 7 15.6 9 13.9% 15 13.0% 94 773 3 67%
88-T.Scheffler DEN 15.7 8 16.3 8 24.6% 7 26.3% 65 549 5 75%
86-D.Lee GB 15.3 9 16.7 7 23.9% 8 27.9% 63 575 6 76%
84-B.Watson NE 13.7 10 13.5 10 32.3% 3 31.6% 49 389 6 73%
86-C.Baker NYJ 12.1 11 10.8 12 19.8% 10 16.1% 61 409 3 67%
84-R.McMichael STL 10.4 12 8.9 15 11.7% 19 7.7% 67 429 4 58%
88-D.Clark CHI 10.3 13 10.6 13 12.0% 17 12.9% 67 545 4 66%
86-B.Utecht IND 10.3 14 10.9 11 30.4% 4 33.4% 37 364 1 84%
Player Team DPAR DPAR
Rank PAR PAR
Rank DVOA DVOA
Rank VOA Passes Yards TD Catch
%
88-M.Pollard SEA 9.5 15 8.8 17 27.4% 5 24.1% 35 273 2 80%
80-J.Shockey NYG 8.5 16 8.9 16 1.8% 25 2.4% 93 619 6 61%
83-B.Miller NO 8.1 17 9.2 14 16.6% 11 21.4% 38 328 2 71%
89-D.Graham DEN 8.0 18 7.6 20 27.1% 6 25.1% 33 246 2 73%
89-M.Lewis JAC 8.0 19 7.8 19 9.4% 22 8.6% 57 391 2 65%
81-A.Smith TB 7.7 20 7.8 18 10.5% 20 10.9% 53 385 3 60%
83-A.Crumpler ATL 6.9 21 6.7 21 3.4% 24 2.9% 70 444 5 60%
86-M.Gaines BUF 6.1 22 6.0 23 14.6% 13 14.1% 35 215 2 71%
86-T.Heap BAL 5.9 23 6.2 22 14.1% 14 15.4% 34 239 1 68%
82-E.Johnson NO 5.2 24 3.7 28 0.2% 26 -3.9% 63 380 2 76%
82-R.Kelly CIN 4.2 25 3.8 27 12.7% 16 10.0% 27 211 0 74%
85-V.Davis SF 3.9 26 4.7 25 -5.5% 30 -3.7% 85 509 4 61%
49-S.McHugh DET 3.7 27 3.8 26 6.3% 23 7.0% 29 252 0 59%

Nature Boy
05-26-2008, 01:11 AM
Good references and most those references came from the 2004 season. I like this one best.

"At a 16-percent drop rate of catchable balls, not so well. San Diego's Antonio Gates is setting the high bar amongst this group with just 1.6 percent of catchable passes dropped. Other top tight ends include Kansas City's Tony Gonzalez (4.6 percent), Cleveland's Kellen Winslow (6.1 percent), the Giants' Jeremy Shockey (7.1 percent), and Cowboys tight end Jason Witten (9.2 percent)."

Even though he missed the pro-bowl in 2004, he did achieve 61 receptions for 666 yards and 6 touchdowns, not too shabby in my opinion. and the 7.1% of catchable balls being dropped, I can live with, especially when it's probably his worst year of a perennial pro-bowler.

He's still head and shoulders above and better than Sheffler.

Ziggy
05-26-2008, 01:19 AM
Good references and most those references came from the 2004 season. I like this one best.

"At a 16-percent drop rate of catchable balls, not so well. San Diego's Antonio Gates is setting the high bar amongst this group with just 1.6 percent of catchable passes dropped. Other top tight ends include Kansas City's Tony Gonzalez (4.6 percent), Cleveland's Kellen Winslow (6.1 percent), the Giants' Jeremy Shockey (7.1 percent), and Cowboys tight end Jason Witten (9.2 percent)."

Even though he missed the pro-bowl in 2004, he did achieve 61 receptions for 666 yards and 6 touchdowns, not too shabby in my opinion. and the 7.1% of catchable balls being dropped, I can live with, especially when it's probably his worst year of a perennial pro-bowler.

He's still head and shoulders above and better than Sheffler.

You asked for refences to dropped passes, I gave them to you. You may be able to live with 7.1% drops of catchable balls, but the Broncos can't, and won't. Ask Darius Watts. Those stats don't even begin to tell what a cancer he is for a team. He's disruptive, he points fingers, and he whines about having to block. Now feel free to argue all you want. I've made my point and I'm done with this argument. Have a great night.:D

Nature Boy
05-26-2008, 01:19 AM
Here's a non-homeristic view of tight end efficiency rankings by Football Outsiders:

http://www.footballoutsiders.com/stats/te.php

TE: Choose Another Year 2007 2006 2005 2004 2003 2002 2001 2000 2007: Choose Another Position 2007 QB 2007 RB 2007 WR 2007 TE 2007 OL 2007 DL

Tight ends are ranked according to DPAR, or Defense-adjusted Points Above Replacement. This number represents the total number of points scored due to plays where this TE caught the ball, compared to a replacement-level TE in the same game situations. DPAR (and its cousin, PAR, which isn't adjusted based on opponent) is further explained here.

The other statistic given is DVOA, or Defense-adjusted Value Over Average. This number represents value, per play, over an average TE in the same game situations. The more positive the DVOA rating, the better the player's performance. DVOA (and its cousin, VOA, which isn't adjusted based on opponent) is further explained here.

DPAR and DVOA include all passes intended for the receiver, both complete and incomplete. Catch % represents the percentage of passes to this receiver completed. This is a reference to incomplete passes, not dropped passes: dropped passes are not specified in publicly available play-by-play, and unfortunately we cannot yet correct for this.

We cannot yet fully separate the performance of a receiver from the performance of his quarterback. Be aware that one will affect the other.
These statistics measure only passes thrown to the tight end, not performance on plays when he is not thrown the ball, such as blocking and drawing double teams.
"Points scored due to plays" is based on a larger model of how yards are translated into points, and is not a measurement strictly of touchdown passes.
All fumbles are considered equal, whether recovered by the offense or defense.
Please note that due to his usage patterns, Dallas Clark of Indianapolis will be listed as a wide receiver for 2007.
The simple version: DPAR means a tight end with more total value. DVOA means a tight end with more value per play.

RECEIVING: Minimum 25 passes, 42 players ranked
Player Team DPAR DPAR
Rank PAR PAR
Rank DVOA DVOA
Rank VOA Passes Yards TD Catch
%
85-A.Gates SD 33.7 1 34.9 1 34.8% 2 36.9% 117 984 9 64%
82-J.Witten DAL 31.7 2 27.8 2 23.8% 9 18.8% 141 1145 8 68%
88-T.Gonzalez KC 23.9 3 26.3 3 11.9% 18 14.8% 154 1172 6 64%
83-H.Miller PIT 23.8 4 24.8 4 49.5% 1 52.8% 61 566 7 77%
80-K.Winslow CLE 19.9 5 19.4 5 9.5% 21 8.9% 148 1111 5 55%
47-C.Cooley WAS 19.2 6 18.2 6 15.9% 12 14.3% 110 786 8 60%
81-O.Daniels HOU 16.1 7 15.6 9 13.9% 15 13.0% 94 773 3 67%
88-T.Scheffler DEN 15.7 8 16.3 8 24.6% 7 26.3% 65 549 5 75%
86-D.Lee GB 15.3 9 16.7 7 23.9% 8 27.9% 63 575 6 76%
84-B.Watson NE 13.7 10 13.5 10 32.3% 3 31.6% 49 389 6 73%
86-C.Baker NYJ 12.1 11 10.8 12 19.8% 10 16.1% 61 409 3 67%
84-R.McMichael STL 10.4 12 8.9 15 11.7% 19 7.7% 67 429 4 58%
88-D.Clark CHI 10.3 13 10.6 13 12.0% 17 12.9% 67 545 4 66%
86-B.Utecht IND 10.3 14 10.9 11 30.4% 4 33.4% 37 364 1 84%
Player Team DPAR DPAR
Rank PAR PAR
Rank DVOA DVOA
Rank VOA Passes Yards TD Catch
%
88-M.Pollard SEA 9.5 15 8.8 17 27.4% 5 24.1% 35 273 2 80%
80-J.Shockey NYG 8.5 16 8.9 16 1.8% 25 2.4% 93 619 6 61%
83-B.Miller NO 8.1 17 9.2 14 16.6% 11 21.4% 38 328 2 71%
89-D.Graham DEN 8.0 18 7.6 20 27.1% 6 25.1% 33 246 2 73%
89-M.Lewis JAC 8.0 19 7.8 19 9.4% 22 8.6% 57 391 2 65%
81-A.Smith TB 7.7 20 7.8 18 10.5% 20 10.9% 53 385 3 60%
83-A.Crumpler ATL 6.9 21 6.7 21 3.4% 24 2.9% 70 444 5 60%
86-M.Gaines BUF 6.1 22 6.0 23 14.6% 13 14.1% 35 215 2 71%
86-T.Heap BAL 5.9 23 6.2 22 14.1% 14 15.4% 34 239 1 68%
82-E.Johnson NO 5.2 24 3.7 28 0.2% 26 -3.9% 63 380 2 76%
82-R.Kelly CIN 4.2 25 3.8 27 12.7% 16 10.0% 27 211 0 74%
85-V.Davis SF 3.9 26 4.7 25 -5.5% 30 -3.7% 85 509 4 61%
49-S.McHugh DET 3.7 27 3.8 26 6.3% 23 7.0% 29 252 0 59%

Stat, smatt, these stats don't mean squat. It's receptions, TDs and the ability to block run or pass that is the all telling when evaluating a TE. According to that list, Sheffler is ranked higher than Danial Graham and Todd Heap. Does that mean Sheffler is better than Graham and heap? The answer is absolutely not.

Nature Boy
05-26-2008, 01:22 AM
You asked for refences to dropped passes, I gave them to you. You may be able to live with 7.1% drops of catchable balls, but the Broncos can't, and won't. Ask Darius Watts. Those stats don't even begin to tell what a cancer he is for a team. He's disruptive, he points fingers, and he whines about having to block. Now feel free to argue all you want. I've made my point and I'm done with this argument. Have a great night.:D

My question was who is the better TE, Sheffler or Shockey? Did you say Sheff? Cause I say Shockey is way better and 100% of football fans outside of this board would agree.

Timmy!
05-26-2008, 06:52 AM
The Giants were a better team without Shockey than with him. That's gotta tell ya something. Shockey is a top 10 over-rated player, IMO.

Nature Boy
05-26-2008, 04:47 PM
Do I have to post up his full stats? Cause they say otherwise.

Retired_Member_001
05-26-2008, 04:51 PM
Do I have to post up his full stats? Cause they say otherwise.

Stats tell half of the story. Shockey's stats are much much better, but the offense just seemed to runb etter with Kevin Boss. Stats really don't mean all that much when the offense is running so much better. I see what you are saying, but to really understand the picture, you need to go by what you see.

Nature Boy
05-26-2008, 05:08 PM
The Giants offense began to play better after Shockey sat out. One can attribute that to Shockey's early departure or that Eli Manning just popped out his shell and took a page from his big brother. I for one don't see how you can get better by subtraction of your best TE while nothing else changed. I think the real factor was Eli went into a zone and Shockey's departure had nothing to do with it.

Then there was also the insurgence of Ahmad Bradshaw. Bradshaw didn't play til the last game of the season where he got 17 carries and 150+ yards rushing against the Bills. From there on in the playoffs, Ahmad Bradshaw absolutely took off as a change of pace to Brandon Jacobs. Ahmad Bradshaw lead all RBs in the Super Bowl with 42yds total including a fumble recovering of Eli.

So instead of repeating everything the media says, you might want to look into things and form your own opinion. We all heard what every TV football anchor and analyst said the Giants offense gelled due to the subtraction of Shockey and I say that was not the whole case.

Inkana7
05-26-2008, 05:21 PM
Stat, smatt, these stats don't mean squat. It's receptions, TDs and the ability to block run or pass that is the all telling when evaluating a TE. According to that list, Sheffler is ranked higher than Danial Graham and Todd Heap. Does that mean Sheffler is better than Graham and heap? The answer is absolutely not.

That's your opinion. In terms of passing game efficiency, Sheffler had a better 2007 than Jeremy Shockey.

Retired_Member_001
05-26-2008, 05:24 PM
The Giants offense began to play better after Shockey sat out. One can attribute that to Shockey's early departure or that Eli Manning just popped out his shell and took a page from his big brother. I for one don't see how you can get better by subtraction of your best TE while nothing else changed. I think the real factor was Eli went into a zone and Shockey's departure had nothing to do with it.

Then there was also the insurgence of Ahmad Bradshaw. Bradshaw didn't play til the last game of the season where he got 17 carries and 150+ yards rushing against the Bills. From there on in the playoffs, Ahmad Bradshaw absolutely took off as a change of pace to Brandon Jacobs. Ahmad Bradshaw lead all RBs in the Super Bowl with 42yds total including a fumble recovering of Eli.

So instead of repeating everything the media says, you might want to look into things and form your own opinion. We all heard what every TV football anchor and analyst said the Giants offense gelled due to the subtraction of Shockey and I say that was not the whole case.

Sure the other factors were just that, factors. But there it is no coincidence that the Giants played better without Shockey. Shockey's stats make it hard to believe, but the Giants are better off without him.

MOtorboat
05-26-2008, 05:32 PM
The Giants offense began to play better after Shockey sat out. One can attribute that to Shockey's early departure or that Eli Manning just popped out his shell and took a page from his big brother. I for one don't see how you can get better by subtraction of your best TE while nothing else changed. I think the real factor was Eli went into a zone and Shockey's departure had nothing to do with it.

Then there was also the insurgence of Ahmad Bradshaw. Bradshaw didn't play til the last game of the season where he got 17 carries and 150+ yards rushing against the Bills. From there on in the playoffs, Ahmad Bradshaw absolutely took off as a change of pace to Brandon Jacobs. Ahmad Bradshaw lead all RBs in the Super Bowl with 42yds total including a fumble recovering of Eli.

So instead of repeating everything the media says, you might want to look into things and form your own opinion. We all heard what every TV football anchor and analyst said the Giants offense gelled due to the subtraction of Shockey and I say that was not the whole case.

Shockey is a cancer. If you can't understand that chemistry is involved with teams, and that these players aren't just robots, well, then I can't help you.

Nature Boy
05-26-2008, 05:41 PM
That's your opinion. In terms of passing game efficiency, Sheffler had a better 2007 than Jeremy Shockey.

The Giants had a dismal start to the season and didn't start to play well til the last leg of the season so of course Shockey's efficiency wont be as good as it could have been according to the guy's meaning stats.


Sure the other factors were just that, factors. But there it is no coincidence that the Giants played better without Shockey. Shockey's stats make it hard to believe, but the Giants are better off without him.

So with all the other factors, you're just gonna pin the Giants surge in the last leg of the season to the subtraction of Shockey? Wow, you have great logic there son.

Don't forget that the Giants O-line was injury riddled by about 6-7 weeks before they finally got it together and made a push at the end. Eli definitely had a lot of time to look down field in each of their playoff games.

Nature Boy
05-26-2008, 05:46 PM
Shockey is a cancer. If you can't understand that chemistry is involved with teams, and that these players aren't just robots, well, then I can't help you.

We're past all that. I agree, Shockey's chance of coming to Denver is worst than Rosie O'Donnell giving up donuts, simply due to fact that Shanahan will not bring in someone that can potentially question his authority.

Now we are only debating about who is the better TE, Shockey or Sheffler. Go reread the last page of 2 of this thread.

slim
05-26-2008, 05:46 PM
The Giants had a dismal start to the season and didn't start to play well til the last leg of the season so of course Shockey's efficiency wont be as good as it could have been according to the guy's meaning stats.



So with all the other factors, you're just gonna pin the Giants surge in the last leg of the season to the subtraction of Shockey? Wow, you have great logic there son.

Don't forget that the Giants O-line was injury riddled by about 6-7 weeks before they finally got it together and made a push at the end. Eli definitely had a lot of time to look down field in each of their playoff games.

Are you a Bronco fan or a Giant fan? Just curious, you seem to know a lot about the Giants.

Inkana7
05-26-2008, 05:53 PM
Are you a Bronco fan or a Giant fan? Just curious, you seem to know a lot about the Giants.

He's the know-everything, supreme authority on football. Didn't you know?

Retired_Member_001
05-26-2008, 06:04 PM
So with all the other factors, you're just gonna pin the Giants surge in the last leg of the season to the subtraction of Shockey? Wow, you have great logic there son.

Don't forget that the Giants O-line was injury riddled by about 6-7 weeks before they finally got it together and made a push at the end. Eli definitely had a lot of time to look down field in each of their playoff games.

Seriously now, stop calling me son.

Look, I understand all the other factors, I understand that Kevin Boss' situation is easier than Jeremy Shockey's was. It still doesn't change the fact that the Giants offense played ALOT better with Boss than Shockey.

Missouri pretty much said it, Shockey is a cancer.

Nature Boy
05-26-2008, 06:31 PM
Are you a Bronco fan or a Giant fan? Just curious, you seem to know a lot about the Giants.

Wow! How intuitive, you should have just said "The Giants Suck!" It's just sounds smarter.


He's the know-everything, supreme authority on football. Didn't you know?

You didn't know? Now run along and tell all your friends and family.


Seriously now, stop calling me son.

Look, I understand all the other factors, I understand that Kevin Boss' situation is easier than Jeremy Shockey's was. It still doesn't change the fact that the Giants offense played ALOT better with Boss than Shockey.

Missouri pretty much said it, Shockey is a cancer.

It's also not a fact that the Giants played better and won a Super Bowl simply because Shockey sat out and Boss came in. I thought I already made that clear so let's not repeat it again, Mr. Aspiring writer dude. Better?

Cancer? possible, but the Giants don't want to let Shockey go and Sean Peyton and the Saints want him bad.

Here's another question. Now that I've made it clear and most you guys would agree with me that Shockey is better than Sheffler; Wookie, are you trying to tell me that Kevin Boss is a better TE than Jeremy Shockey? Because I don't see it. Sure he made some plays here and there, but I attribute to the fact that defenses don't account for his presents on the field so he's just kind of slipped by under the radar. Something a player like Shockey can never do. Linebackers and safeties always have him on double coverage or umbrellaed.

So, Wookie, who do you think is the better TE, Kevin Boss, Jeremy Shockey or Tony Sheffler? Very Simple answer here, Mr. Aspiring.

Retired_Member_001
05-26-2008, 06:38 PM
It's also not a fact that the Giants played better and won a Super Bowl simply because Shockey sat out and Boss came in. I thought I already made that clear so let's not repeat it again, Mr. Aspiring writer dude. Better?

Cancer? possible, but the Giants don't want to let Shockey go and Sean Peyton and the Saints want him bad.

Here's another question. Now that I've made it clear and most you guys would agree with me that Shockey is better than Sheffler; Wookie, are you trying to tell me that Kevin Boss is a better TE than Jeremy Shockey? Because I don't see it. Sure he made some plays here and there, but I attribute to the fact that defenses don't account for his presents on the field because they know he's not that good so he's kind of went by under the radar.

So, Wookie, who do you think is the better TE, Kevin Boss, Jeremy Shockey or Tony Sheffler? Very Simple answer here, Mr. Aspiring.

I am in no way saying the Giants won a Super Bowl simply because Boss came in and Shockey went out.

Jeremy Shockey is a better Tight End than Kevin Boss or Tony Scheffler in terms of talent wise. The other two however, beat the hell out of him in the attitude part. For the Giants, Kevin Boss was a better fit. I am not saying though, that talent wise, Jeremy Shockey is not a good Tight End.

dogfish
05-26-2008, 06:38 PM
Seriously now, stop calling me son.





i find it kind of amusing from a guy who is nine years old, according to his profile. . . .



:lol:

Nature Boy
05-26-2008, 06:47 PM
I am in no way saying the Giants won a Super Bowl simply because Boss came in and Shockey went out.

Jeremy Shockey is a better Tight End than Kevin Boss or Tony Scheffler in terms of talent wise. The other two however, beat the hell out of him in the attitude part. For the Giants, Kevin Boss was a better fit. I am not saying though, that talent wise, Jeremy Shockey is not a good Tight End.

Thanks for agreeing with me. So we have it. Shockey is better than Kevin Boss and definitely better than Sheffler, but some on this forum would say other wise.

Timmy!
05-26-2008, 06:50 PM
Thanks for agreeing with me. So we have it. Shockey is better than Kevin Boss and definitely better than Sheffler, but some on this forum would say other wise.

Having more talent doesn't always make you better.....

Nature Boy
05-26-2008, 06:54 PM
i find it kind of amusing from a guy who is nine years old, according to his profile. . . .



:lol:


Don't you love the contradictions, sarcasms and ironies? :cool:




Having more talent doesn't always make you better.....


Yes it does... :cool:


'

slim
05-26-2008, 06:57 PM
Wow! How intuitive, you should have just said "The Giants Suck!" It's just sounds smarter.


So you're a Giants fan...got it.

Nature Boy
05-26-2008, 07:04 PM
So you're a Giants fan...got it.


No, but Lawrence Taylor is my all time favorite Linebacker. He may have 2 or 3 Baby Mamas himself, I don't know for sure.

Retired_Member_001
05-26-2008, 07:05 PM
Yes it does... :cool:


'

So you've never played a sport at any level, not even in your own back garden then?

Of course Attitude comes into play.

Nature Boy
05-26-2008, 07:13 PM
All City Wrestler in High School and I barely tried. I hated and rarely jogged, barely showed up for practice but on tournament day or school meets, I totally owned my opposition on talent alone. Deadliest cross-face in California. All my workouts were from full speed matches with bigger opponents, that was how I practiced.

Retired_Member_001
05-26-2008, 07:16 PM
All City Wrestler in High School and I barely tried. I hated and rarely jogged, barely showed up for practice but on tournament day or school meets, I totally owned my opposition on talent alone. Deadliest cross-face in California. All my workouts were from full speed matches with bigger opponents, that was how I practiced.

Well if you've played sports, you surely know that attitude DOES matter.

Nature Boy
05-26-2008, 07:24 PM
Well if you've played sports, you surely know that attitude DOES matter.

I don't disagree with that.

And I believe that Shockey's attitude is not as bad as you guys make him to be. I also believe Shockey is the hardest and toughest competitor on that Giants team. I think he would make a great Bronco and he and Mike Shanahan would get along great cause Mickey would know how to get him the ball being the passing wizz that he's suppose to be. Mike Shanahan haven't had a TE threat like that since Sharpe retired.

Retired_Member_001
05-26-2008, 07:27 PM
I don't disagree with that.

And I believe that Shockey's attitude is not as bad as you guys make him to be. I also believe Shockey is the hardest and toughest competitor on that Giants team. I think he would make a great Bronco and he and Mike Shanahan would get along great cause Mickey would know how to get him the ball being the passing wizz that he's suppose to be. Mike Shanahan haven't had a TE threat like that since Sharpe retired.

Tony Scheffler and Jeremy Shockey are in the same mold. Not the same level, but same mold. Tony Scheffler is also significantly younger and has a much better attitude. To be honest, if Shanahan had to pick, he'd definitely go for Scheffler.

slim
05-26-2008, 07:29 PM
I don't disagree with that.

And I believe that Shockey's attitude is not as bad as you guys make him to be. I also believe Shockey is the hardest and toughest competitor on that Giants team. I think he would make a great Bronco and he and Mike Shanahan would get along great cause Mickey would know how to get him the ball being the passing wizz that he's suppose to be. Mike Shanahan haven't had a TE threat like that since Sharpe retired.

:laugh:

:rofl:

MOtorboat
05-26-2008, 07:31 PM
Nature Boy, can you make a post responding to someone without insulting them?

Just curious. Because there are a lot of us who are sick and tired of you being a jackass.

Nature Boy
05-26-2008, 07:32 PM
Tony Scheffler and Jeremy Shockey are in the same mold. Not the same level, but same mold. Tony Scheffler is also significantly younger and has a much better attitude. To be honest, if Shanahan had to pick, he'd definitely go for Scheffler.

They are no way in the same mold. Sheffler is like Gumby and Shockey is like Hulk Hogan if they were molded into toy figures with the same attitude and all.

Requiem / The Dagda
05-26-2008, 07:33 PM
I never thought I'd see the day where a football player would be referenced to a claymation cartoon character. If that doesn't beat all. . .

Nature Boy
05-26-2008, 07:36 PM
Nature Boy, can you make a post responding to someone without insulting them?

Just curious. Because there are a lot of us who are sick and tired of you being a jackass.

Who have I insulted in this thread?

I used the word "Son", which is not an insult but since he asked me not to, I haven't and I'm not the only one that has used that word. It's been adopted into street slang now, but you're from Missou, trends get there later, I see.

slim
05-26-2008, 07:36 PM
They are no way in the same mold. Sheffler is like Gumby and Shockey is like Hulk Hogan if they were molded into toy figures with the same attitude and all.

Hahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha....Shockey is like Hulk Hogan.....

It's nice to meet you, Jeremy. Why are you posting on a Broncos message board?

Retired_Member_001
05-26-2008, 07:37 PM
They are no way in the same mold. Sheffler is like Gumby and Shockey is like Hulk Hogan if they were molded into toy figures with the same attitude and all.

You didn't even spell Scheffler correctly.

As far as I can see, they are both receiving tight ends, this puts them in the same mold. In fact, I'd take Scheffler's performance this year over Shockey's performance this year. Scheffler caught alot of key passes, Shockey dropped alot of key passes.

Nature Boy
05-26-2008, 07:38 PM
I never thought I'd see the day where a football player would be referenced to a claymation cartoon character. If that doesn't beat all. . .

It's called an analogy Genius. Maybe you've taken the SATs and heard of it?

Requiem / The Dagda
05-26-2008, 07:39 PM
Loooooooooooooooooooooooooool! This thread is off the hook!

Retired_Member_001
05-26-2008, 07:40 PM
Who have I insulted in this thread?

I used the word "Son", which is not an insult but since he asked me not to, I haven't and I'm not the only one that has used that word. It's been adopted into street slang now, but you're from Missou, trends get there later, I see.

See, you just offended someone again with your last sentance.

You continually disrespect quality members. You continually hijack a thread and then attack someone when the post an opinion different to yours.

MOtorboat
05-26-2008, 07:40 PM
It's call an analogy Genius. Maybe you've taken the SATs and heard of it?

"It's CALLED an analogy."

Maybe you forgot the SATs.

Retired_Member_001
05-26-2008, 07:41 PM
It's call an analogy Genius. Maybe you've taken the SATs and heard of it?

Here we go again with the insults.

Dream is a big member of this message board.

I bet you wouldn't say these things to his face.

Nature Boy
05-26-2008, 07:44 PM
You didn't even spell Scheffler correctly.

As far as I can see, they are both receiving tight ends, this puts them in the same mold. In fact, I'd take Scheffler's performance this year over Shockey's performance this year. Scheffler caught alot of key passes, Shockey dropped alot of key passes.

Point to me exactly which key passes Shockey dropped in 2007 and how many more Scheffler made besides the references Ziggy put up which were from 2004.

Requiem / The Dagda
05-26-2008, 07:44 PM
Lol, Wookie. I love this board, I love all you guys.

Nature Boy
05-26-2008, 07:44 PM
Here we go again with the insults.

Dream is a big member of this message board.

I bet you wouldn't say these things to his face.


Last time I checked, calling someone a Genius was a compliment.

Requiem / The Dagda
05-26-2008, 07:45 PM
Why are you capitalizing genius in the middle of the sentence?

Secondly, you were being condescending to me, which is why you used the term. The same way you call Wookie "son." You're trying to talk down to us. That's not going to get you far.

MOtorboat
05-26-2008, 07:46 PM
Why are you capitalizing genius in the middle of the sentence?

Because he did really well on the SATs.

Retired_Member_001
05-26-2008, 07:47 PM
Point to me exactly which key passes Shockey dropped in 2007 and how many more Scheffler made besides the references Ziggy put up which were from 2004.

Just watch him.

I've watched a hell of a lot of Giants games this year. It's pretty clear that he has all too frequent lapses in concentration that causes him to drop the ball alot. You don't need a stat for everything son, somtimes you need to watch.

Dreadnought
05-26-2008, 07:48 PM
Wow - I'm gone a couple of days and there are actually people seriously talking about bringing that overrated skillet-handed stiff Shockey here? Dear Lord....

We already have two TE's on the roster far superior to that clown. If we are looking for a veteran backup for Nate Jackson, maybe.

Retired_Member_001
05-26-2008, 07:49 PM
Last time I checked, calling someone a Genius was a compliment.

:tsk:

I refuse to say anything. I don't want to be reprimanded (to warn in a formal way) by the Mods again.

Nature Boy
05-26-2008, 07:50 PM
"It's CALLED an analogy."

Maybe you forgot the SATs.

Dude, we're talking football and you're gonna shadow my post to correct me on grammar and typos?

Well the one that does the grammar corrections should know that "FORGOT" is not a word. It's forget.

Thanks for the grammar checks anyways.

My 3rd grade teacher Mrs. Wilson was like that too.

Retired_Member_001
05-26-2008, 07:51 PM
Dude, we're talking football and you're gonna shadow my post to correct me on grammar and typos?

Well the one that does the grammar corrections should know that "FORGOT" is not a word. It's forget.

Thanks for the grammar checks anyways.

My 3rd grade teacher Mrs. Wilson was like that too.

http://www.thefreedictionary.com/forgot

Owned.

MOtorboat
05-26-2008, 07:52 PM
Well the one that does the grammar corrections should know that "FORGOT" is not a word. It's forget.

:rofl:

You continue to show your intelligence.
http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/Forgot

Retired_Member_001
05-26-2008, 07:53 PM
:rofl:

You continue to show your intelligence.
http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/Forgot

Maybe you should provide him a link to the definition of intelligence.

:coffee:

MOtorboat
05-26-2008, 07:54 PM
Maybe you should provide him a link to the definition of intelligence.

:coffee:

I don't think it's going to work.

Although I can feel a "I'd refer you to my sig, but someone made me take it down," reference coming.

Retired_Member_001
05-26-2008, 07:59 PM
How about we just [/THREAD]?

There's no way that Nature Boy can defend himself from forgetting that "forgot" is a word.

Nature Boy
05-26-2008, 08:03 PM
Wow - I'm gone a couple of days and there are actually people seriously talking about bringing that overrated skillet-handed stiff Shockey here? Dear Lord....

We already have two TE's on the roster far superior to that clown. If we are looking for a veteran backup for Nate Jackson, maybe.

It's been a year and Scheff's foot is not yet healed. It may be a degenerative problem that may never go away.

And no, I did not seriously suggest we go after Jeremy Shockey in Denver.

I meant in Sarcasm:


He sucks(Scheffler. He's injury prone. Get him out of here. Lets get Jeremy Shockey in his place.

and it ran from there. A bunch of guys and a "mam" said Jeremy Shockey sucks and that Scheffler is better and so was Kevin Boss, so that was the debating point for 3-4 pages, in recap.

TXBRONC
05-26-2008, 08:04 PM
Don't you love the contradictions, sarcasms and ironies? :cool:






Yes it does... :cool:


'

Not if you don't know how to be a team player.

Nature Boy
05-26-2008, 08:10 PM
I believe "forgot" and "got" were not real words in the old English dictionary. But now with all these different variants and online dictionaries where even "google" is a verb, anything can be recently added and possible. But I can be wrong, it wouldn't be the 1st time I misused a word.

Lonestar
05-26-2008, 08:18 PM
Scheffler hurts foot


:focus:

Scheffler hurts foot .

Knock off the personal comments and get back to the topic or this gets closed..

Nature Boy
05-26-2008, 08:37 PM
Do you guys remember Eric Johnson of the then 49ers? Well he had a pro-bowl level 2004 season catching 82 balls but in spring training of the following year, he suffered a foot injury that sidelined him for a whole year and never really recovered from it til now. Foot injuries are a tricky thing as there are so many bones, tendons and ligaments.

I hope the effects of Scheffler's is nothing like Eric Johnson's foot injury.

dogfish
05-27-2008, 10:06 AM
I believe "forgot" and "got" were not real words in the old English dictionary. But now with all these different variants and online dictionaries where even "google" is a verb, anything can be recently added and possible. But I can be wrong, it wouldn't be the 1st time I misused a word.



"forgot" is the past tense of "forget"-- you didn't think they used "forgetted," did you?



:laugh:




i think it's time we all forget about jeremy shockey. . . .

HolyDiver
05-27-2008, 10:31 AM
Do you guys remember Eric Johnson of the then 49ers? Well he had a pro-bowl level 2004 season catching 82 balls but in spring training of the following year, he suffered a foot injury that sidelined him for a whole year and never really recovered from it til now. Foot injuries are a tricky thing as there are so many bones, tendons and ligaments.

I hope the effects of Scheffler's is nothing like Eric Johnson's foot injury.

I had an ankle injury in the late 90's that took 5 years before it was completely healed...............Sheffler does not have 5 years.

BroncoNut
05-27-2008, 11:07 AM
I had an ankle injury in the late 90's that took 5 years before it was completely healed...............Sheffler does not have 5 years.

You, HD, are no Tony Scheffler.

Nature Boy
05-27-2008, 04:39 PM
I had an ankle injury in the late 90's that took 5 years before it was completely healed...............Sheffler does not have 5 years.

I had a lower ankle, upper foot sprang while playing basketball that just now feels 100%. The injury occurred 7 years ago. However, I was able to run 100% on it after 3-4 months although sore and occasionally painful. I think Scheff will be fine but who knows, the guy almost weighs 300lbs.

TXBRONC
05-27-2008, 06:33 PM
"forgot" is the past tense of "forget"-- you didn't think they used "forgetted," did you?



:laugh:




i think it's time we all forget about jeremy shockey. . . .


That's not a problem for me, because its never entered my mind that Shanahan would try and trade for him.

TXBRONC
05-27-2008, 06:36 PM
Mother-friggen-trucker!!! :tsk:

I thought Spider was the mother-friggen trucker? :D

frauschieze
05-27-2008, 06:52 PM
I had a lower ankle, upper foot sprang while playing basketball that just now feels 100%. The injury occurred 7 years ago. However, I was able to run 100% on it after 3-4 months although sore and occasionally painful. I think Scheff will be fine but who knows, the guy almost weighs 300lbs.

Just checking....but your profile says you're nine years old. Seven years ago would make you two when you injured your ankle.....playing basketball. :confused:

Inkana7
05-27-2008, 07:40 PM
I'm laughing at barely 250 pounds being "almost 300".

Nature Boy
05-27-2008, 08:46 PM
I'm laughing at barely 250 pounds being "almost 300".

Come on, you've got nothing else better to than to comment on a purposely exaggerated figure to emphasize how much bigger Scheffler is than me? On top of that, I bet if Scheffler didn't train to be a world class athlete, he probably would weigh close to 300lbs after the Holiday season.