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Denver Native (Carol)
05-23-2010, 07:47 AM
http://www.denverpost.com/premium/broncos/ci_15143299

The snap delivered chaos until Kyle Orton barked and restored order.

Rookie center J.D. Walton, understandably nervous given the opportunity presented him, delivered the shotgun snap either prematurely or errantly to quarterback Orton, who never got it.

Confusion followed. Some linemen continued blocking. Other players let up. Players muddled, all with the look of "What's going on?"

Orton moved to his left and turned toward the right sideline.

"Huddle up!" he said.

Ten other offensive players hustled to their huddle formation. The Broncos were back in business for their first full-team, offseason practice last Monday.

Surrounding the Broncos headquarters, an unmistakable, board-up-windows quarterback controversy has started to funnel.

Again, Orton may be the only one capable of calming these outside forces. As the incumbent starter, all Orton has to do is beat out the quarterbacks the Broncos recently acquired to take his place — Brady Quinn, who was once touted as an All-American boy from Notre Dame, and Tim Tebow, an All-American boy of heaven and earth.

"I don't think Kyle's job's in jeopardy," said former NFL quarterback Jim Miller, who has a show on NFL Sirius radio. "If it's in jeopardy, that team is in trouble."

Josh McDaniels is the Broncos' coach who has declared an open competition at the quarterback position, with Orton in the lead.

But let's review McDaniels' 16 1/2-month term as the man in charge of Denver's football operations. This is not a coach frightened by the path of greatest resistance.

What happens if between now and the season opener Sept. 12 in Jacksonville, Quinn starts, Tebow is the backup, Tom Brandstater spends a second season observing as the No. 3 quarterback — and Orton is wearing a different uniform?

"The problem with that, is in this day and age of ESPN, and the writers and the media, everybody who is jumping on the blogs, Josh is going to take a rash of crap nationally," said Mark Schlereth, the former Broncos and Washington Redskins guard who is now an NFL analyst for ESPN.

Multiple NFL sources say the Broncos let it be known this offseason that Orton was available. Perhaps that time has passed. A Broncos source said Orton is not on the trading block.

Based on the Broncos' first offseason practice that was open to the media Monday, any deal involving Orton would be a trade involving their best quarterback.

Quinn, who was acquired from the Cleveland Browns in March, is just getting acclimated to his new teammates and new offense.

Tebow took very few snaps as he continues to work on his mechanics and studying the playbook. Brandstater has the strongest arm of the foursome. But he is raw and ranks somewhere behind Tebow in status, if not yet on the depth chart.

Orton, meanwhile, carried himself with the type of relaxed, poised demeanor common among established quarterbacks.

"If you want to be a successful quarterback in this league, you've got to have that about yourself," said Brandon Stokley, the Broncos' most experienced receiver. "You can see that he has it. You can see he's more comfortable this year, as well as we all are, being in this system for a year."

More important, perhaps, Orton was also the most efficient passer of the group. On Day One, anyway.

"I've been doing this for six years now," Orton said as he left the field Monday. "Do you want me to go out there like this?"

He then spread his hands apart at the waist, and pantomimed getting electrocuted.

"Everyone makes such a big deal about (the quarterback competition), but there is one quarterback on the field, whether it is junior high football, high school football, college football or the NFL," Orton said. "Everyone wants to be that guy. I certainly have handled myself in quarterback competitions."

Not that Quinn is ready to concede to Orton before the calendar reaches Memorial Day.

"He knows the offense pretty well, but again, this is an offense I'm familiar with," Quinn said. "So I feel pretty comfortable being in there as well."

Game on! Once the season starts and rosters are trimmed to 53 players, three quarterbacks becomes a crowd and four is usually one too many.

It's a virtual certainty one of the Broncos' four quarterbacks will be gone from the season-opening roster.

The team's quarterback competition can be separated into two most likely scenarios. A look at each:

1. Orton starts. Tebow is game-day backup. Quinn is the emergency No. 3 on game day, but starts if Orton can't play in a particular week. Brandstater is placed on the practice squad providing he clears waivers.

"Knowing Kyle, I think he'll thrive in this situation," Miller said. "He's not one to (complain). He won't make noise. He won't ripple the waters. He's going to approach it that, 'I'm going to play so well, you're not going to want to take me out of the lineup.' "

Said Schlereth: "To me there's not a whole lot of controversy. Kyle Orton has been a very good, very accomplished quarterback in this league for a long time. The problem with Kyle Orton is he's limited athletically. He's got a great arm, but he seems to get an ankle injury or whatever because he doesn't have the athletic ability to get away."

This brings up why Schlereth was one of the few national analysts who loved the Broncos' selection of Tebow.

"Let's not focus on what a guy can't do, but what he can do," Schlereth said. "When you watch Tim Tebow, there's a lot of things he can do.

"The advent of the Wildcat in this league, that's not going anywhere. You put Tebow in those situations, and you give yourself a run-pass option. It's going to be a real, serious package for you, especially in short yardage and goal line, where you really struggled last year. If they're better in short yardage and goal line last year, instead of 8-8 they're 10-6 and they make the playoffs."

2. Quinn starts, Tebow is No. 2, Brandstater is No. 3. Orton is traded.

Keep in mind, the Broncos responded to reports of a possible Quinn trade by sending out word the quarterback would be staying put. And Tebow isn't going anywhere except out front as the future (and current, for that matter) face of the franchise.

Process of elimination would leave McDaniels with either moving Brandstater or, gulp, Orton.

Not that such a possibility will prevent Orton from huddling up with the No. 1 offense Monday, when the Broncos continue their offseason practices.

"Once you've been in this business awhile, you realize that people keep coming for your job every year," Stokley said. "Very few people in this league don't have competition for their jobs. Peyton Manning. Tom Brady. Those guys. But other than that, you've got to get young guys in. And you kind of just get used to it."

HORSEPOWER 56
05-23-2010, 09:29 AM
I just hope one of them can step up and lead this offense while scoring points and not just playing not to lose. If it's Orton, great. If it's someone else, that's great too.

I can accept an errant throw or blown read resulting in an INT every once in awhile if our offense is aggressive an scores points. The one thing that had me tearing my hair out last year was watching the offense, even behind late in the game, running the same, tired plays over and over even though the defense had figured it out. 3 yd curls and bubble screens on 3rd and 8 when the defense is waiting for it is just ridiculous. We need better play from the QB position NO MATTER WHAT THE STATUS OF THE O-LINE OR RUNNING GAME ARE!

The time for excuses is over. Orton has had a year, Quinn is familiar with the system and has starting experience, and Tebow is "so smart and hard working" that no matter who starts, we just can't afford to always "play it safe, take the 3 and out, and let the defense win the game for us".

T.K.O.
05-23-2010, 09:59 AM
the pats will snag brandstater before he clears waivers.....mark it down:listen:

Lonestar
05-23-2010, 10:02 AM
Ihope that KO has his best year so he can move on and get a nice contract.

Guessing that Tebow will be th starter next year after getting some playing time this year. Quinn not sure if he is going to be content to be a backup. So he may be worth some draft picks down the line.

TB well he may ultimately become Tebow back up if Quinn is traded. But it will be one mmore year on the PS I can't fathom anyone wanting him. As raw as he is.

Now the delimna is if they get a great offer for Orton will they take it. Then who starts has to be quinn who then becomes bigger trade bait in 11.

Can hardly wait for the haters to chime in. All of them have a group excpet perhaps TB as not sure anyone has reason to hate him other than Josh drafted him.
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Lonestar
05-23-2010, 10:16 AM
I just hope one of them can step up and lead this offense while scoring points and not just playing not to lose. If it's Orton, great. If it's someone else, that's great too.

I can accept an errant throw or blown read resulting in an INT every once in awhile if our offense is aggressive an scores points. The one thing that had me tearing my hair out last year was watching the offense, even behind late in the game, running the same, tired plays over and over even though the defense had figured it out. 3 yd curls and bubble screens on 3rd and 8 when the defense is waiting for it is just ridiculous. We need better play from the QB position NO MATTER WHAT THE STATUS OF THE O-LINE OR RUNNING GAME ARE!

The time for excuses is over. Orton has had a year, Quinn is familiar with the system and has starting experience, and Tebow is "so smart and hard working" that no matter who starts, we just can't afford to always "play it safe, take the 3 and out, and let the defense win the game for us".

Just guessing that you do not have clue on what the scehme from NE really is. It is the short passing game that gets the ball to players that make the play after the catch.

If you do not get that then it is time to get an appointment at Bosley.

W just drafted the ultimate possesion WR in Decker and one that can strech the field in DT but he will not be the #1 target, merely be the threat.

And if that is not bad enough for you TEBOW will not be throwing deep not gonna happen.

The PICK is something that the NE scheme will not tolerate. It killed us in years past with jay being irresponsible and before that Jake until 05 when he had his career year.
Sorry here is a number near and dear add it to your speed dail 800 4 Bosley.
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HORSEPOWER 56
05-23-2010, 11:17 AM
Just guessing that you do not have clue on what the scehme from NE really is. It is the short passing game that gets the ball to players that make the play after the catch.

If you do not get that then it is time to get an appointment at Bosley.

W just drafted the ultimate possesion WR in Decker and one that can strech the field in DT but he will not be the #1 target, merely be the threat.

And if that is not bad enough for you TEBOW will not be throwing deep not gonna happen.

The PICK is something that the NE scheme will not tolerate. It killed us in years past with jay being irresponsible and before that Jake until 05 when he had his career year.
Sorry here is a number near and dear add it to your speed dail 800 4 Bosley.
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You know what? To HELL with the scheme if it can't get us more than 8-8. Yep, I just don't understand the scheme... there you go again....

Lonestar
05-23-2010, 11:56 AM
You know what? To HELL with the scheme if it can't get us more than 8-8. Yep, I just don't understand the scheme... there you go again....


Again do you not get it. Josh came here with an idea, he was hired to use that Idea.

Like having him try to run mikeys scheme, without a clue on how to do it.

Do you think he is going to pull something out of the air that he has zero experience with to satisfy YOU. :laugh::laugh::laugh::laugh: :laugh::laugh::laugh::laugh::laugh: :laugh::laugh::laugh::laugh:

broncobryce
05-23-2010, 01:40 PM
Damn JR, that's harsh, lol. I think we drafted Demaryius because he is a deep threat. Ala Randy Moss in NE. Now I am not saying he is as good as Moss, (wet dream) but that is the role I believe Josh drafted him for. He goes deep which opens up the underneath stuff. If they don't honor the deep threat you throw it up to him and let him make the play which he did numerous times in college. Hopefully it opens it up for Royal and Deck underneath. At the OTA's Josh said they want to go deep a lot more this season.
I think we didn't go deep much last season due to 1. Not great pass protection 2. A lack of a deep threat 3. Josh was playing to Orton's strengths which is NOT the deep ball. Mix that with having no deep threat besides Scheff (I guess, for a TE) and we saw what we saw on offense last year.

Just curious why you think Tebow will not throw the deep pass? From what I understand he shows nice touch on the deep balls.

Dean
05-23-2010, 01:54 PM
The New England offense threw the ball intermediate and long to Randy Moss while McD was the O-coordinator. Did you see that in our offense last year? Whether it was the recievers, the QB, or fear of risk in play calling I don't know but last year's offense did not mirror what he had done in New England.

silkamilkamonico
05-23-2010, 02:00 PM
NE uses the short passing game to set up the deep game. They do throw the ball downfield a lot when their offense is working.

HORSEPOWER 56
05-23-2010, 02:15 PM
Again do you not get it. Josh came here with an idea, he was hired to use that Idea.

Like having him try to run mikeys scheme, without a clue on how to do it.

Do you think he is going to pull something out of the air that he has zero experience with to satisfy YOU. :laugh::laugh::laugh::laugh: :laugh::laugh::laugh::laugh::laugh: :laugh::laugh::laugh::laugh:

Yep, you're right - I don't get it. Tom Brady never throws deep and always seems to go 3 and out...

No? Why is that? Please educate me oh wise one who is the ONLY one on these boards that seems to understand the "scheme"... :coffee:

I understand the scheme just fine. The problem is, Orton is NOT the QB who can take full advantage of it. He cannot take advantage of the home-run ball when all the short, underneath stuff opens it up (like Brady does). He cannot take advantage of the intermediate passing game because he's not accurate enough to hit WRs in stride at intermediate range (10-20 yds) when moving laterally. He can throw 10-20 yds but only to WRs "sitting down" in a zone or coming back for the ball in a curl route. His lateral accuracy is poor, hence all the "highlight" and "jump ball" catches our WRs had to make this past year.

The point is, our offense was handcuffed by our QBs inability to make plays last year. EVERYONE EXCEPT YOU AND A FEW OTHERS realizes this. YOU blame the offensive line for all of our offensive woes, but we were AVERAGE in sacks allowed last year with the same O-line as the year before because we had an immobile statue of a QB that couldn't avoid the rush and as soon as he was moved off his spot was completely ineffective. That's what I'm talking about. I don't give a damn if Orton "knows the playbook better" this year or has "one more year in the system". What matters is that he can execute when called on. Has he improved his footwork and ability to move around in the pocket? Has he improved his accuracy? According to topscribe, he has the strongest arm in the league - but can he use it to get the ball past the sticks on 3rd down? These are the real questions, not whether he can manipulate a short passing offensive scheme that any Qb can utilize and still take a ton of unecessary sacks and still not convert on 3rd down.

So you're implying that when a WR catches that bubble screen on 3rd and 8 and doesn't pick up the 1st down, because the defense knows it's coming because it's the 8th time we've run it in 3 drives that it's he WRs fault? Maybe if the QB could be trusted to throw more than 5 yards consistently, the playbook could be opened more. I don't really care if Orton has a "better grasp" I'd be willing to bet that Steven Hawking could learn our playbook in a day but still can't throw a decent pass or avoid the rush.

It isn't always about "scheme". Players HAVE TO BE ABLE TO EXECUTE!

dogfish
05-23-2010, 02:24 PM
it's amazing how brady managed to throw fifty bubble screens for TDs that year, huh?

now that's what i call a system!

Lonestar
05-23-2010, 03:15 PM
Damn JR, that's harsh, lol. I think we drafted Demaryius because he is a deep threat. Ala Randy Moss in NE. Now I am not saying he is as good as Moss, (wet dream) but that is the role I believe Josh drafted him for. He goes deep which opens up the underneath stuff. If they don't honor the deep threat you throw it up to him and let him make the play which he did numerous times in college. Hopefully it opens it up for Royal and Deck underneath. At the OTA's Josh said they want to go deep a lot more this season.
I think we didn't go deep much last season due to 1. Not great pass protection 2. A lack of a deep threat 3. Josh was playing to Orton's strengths which is NOT the deep ball. Mix that with having no deep threat besides Scheff (I guess, for a TE) and we saw what we saw on offense last year.

Just curious why you think Tebow will not throw the deep pass? From what I understand he shows nice touch on the deep balls.

Overall I agree BUT the offense is not a balls out deep passing one, just enough to keep them honest. It is a crossing route get the ball to the play maker and allow them to get YAC.

I do not see Josh changing that up much except to keep them honest, as fro Orton I think his arm is good enough to do that but he has to have time for the play to develop NO one on the team can cover 4o yards in 3 heart beats which was about the average protection time last year.:laugh::laugh:

As for Tebow I doubt he will be on the field except for 3rd and short or inside the 10.

Lonestar
05-23-2010, 03:17 PM
The New England offense threw the ball intermediate and long to Randy Moss while McD was the O-coordinator. Did you see that in our offense last year? Whether it was the recievers, the QB, or fear of risk in play calling I don't know but last year's offense did not mirror what he had done in New England.


YOu have to have something we lacked for most of the year, pass protection and the ability to CONSISTENTLY run the ball.

When the OLINE gives them the time we will see the crossing routes that NE is designed around.

Lonestar
05-23-2010, 03:21 PM
NE uses the short passing game to set up the deep game. They do throw the ball downfield a lot when their offense is working.

Precisely but when it is not the deep pass is rarely thrown. they have their ducks lined up with some damned fine LOS guys something we sucked at last year.

Nothing works when your OLG is in the pocket being pressed into the QB play after play.

Northman
05-23-2010, 03:25 PM
I just hope one of them can step up and lead this offense while scoring points and not just playing not to lose. If it's Orton, great. If it's someone else, that's great too.

I can accept an errant throw or blown read resulting in an INT every once in awhile if our offense is aggressive an scores points. The one thing that had me tearing my hair out last year was watching the offense, even behind late in the game, running the same, tired plays over and over even though the defense had figured it out. 3 yd curls and bubble screens on 3rd and 8 when the defense is waiting for it is just ridiculous. We need better play from the QB position NO MATTER WHAT THE STATUS OF THE O-LINE OR RUNNING GAME ARE!

The time for excuses is over. Orton has had a year, Quinn is familiar with the system and has starting experience, and Tebow is "so smart and hard working" that no matter who starts, we just can't afford to always "play it safe, take the 3 and out, and let the defense win the game for us".

Totally agree. McD has his players, now its time to see some results.

Dirk
05-24-2010, 06:03 AM
Totally agree. McD has his players, now its time to see some results.

Yup! :salute:

I think that the Offense will be much better this year. Even with the absence of BMarsh and Scheff.

The main questions that will come up are:

1. Can the OLine perform well enough to give us a running game and protection.

2. Can Wink become a D-Coordinator in this league.


If those two things can happen, the Broncos may be a playoff team.

I know, those are 2 big "ifs" but if they do, then the Broncos will be just fine.

Lonestar
05-24-2010, 08:50 AM
Great post Dirk.

Your correct about th OL but mostly will clady be back at more than 80% and will Harris get injured again or has healed enuff.

Having 2 newbies is bad enuff but up to 4 could be a real major issue.

Not overly worried about Wink as he has some talent to play with. And he already has a scheme in place. Slowitt had neigther. When he got the job.

That is not saying he was worth a damn but wink has the tools to work with something mikey was unwilling to provide.
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T.K.O.
05-24-2010, 10:09 AM
last year the "experts" had us pegged as a 3-4 win team and we hit .500
i believe they are talking 6-8 wins this year.....my math skillz put that at 10-12 wins !!!!!!:elefant::salute:

xzn
05-24-2010, 10:46 AM
I'd like to see Quinn's preferable AA on the field as long as his understanding of the system is a reasonable simulacrum of Orton's. For this year I'd like to see Orton as Brady's reliable back-up and clipboard carrier unless we could get meaningful compensation for Kyle, e.g. a 2nd or 3rd round pick.

As for the second coming I think it's clear he'll be used, possibly as much as 25% of plays, in a special wild horses type package. I would not be surprised to see T2 taking over the base offense after the mid-point of the season if he shows he is ready and if either Orton or Quinn are struggling at all.

As for Brandy, I'm just not that worried about him. If he clears waivers I'd like to keep him for the scout team and future #3 guy.

SOCALORADO.
05-24-2010, 12:32 PM
I'd like to see Quinn's preferable AA on the field as long as his understanding of the system is a reasonable simulacrum of Orton's. For this year I'd like to see Orton as Brady's reliable back-up and clipboard carrier unless we could get meaningful compensation for Kyle, e.g. a 2nd or 3rd round pick.

As for the second coming I think it's clear he'll be used, possibly as much as 25% of plays, in a special wild horses type package. I would not be surprised to see T2 taking over the base offense after the mid-point of the season if he shows he is ready and if either Orton or Quinn are struggling at all.

As for Brandy, I'm just not that worried about him. If he clears waivers I'd like to keep him for the scout team and future #3 guy.

I see this.

BroncoWave
05-24-2010, 01:42 PM
I'd like to see Quinn's preferable AA on the field as long as his understanding of the system is a reasonable simulacrum of Orton's. For this year I'd like to see Orton as Brady's reliable back-up and clipboard carrier unless we could get meaningful compensation for Kyle, e.g. a 2nd or 3rd round pick.

As for the second coming I think it's clear he'll be used, possibly as much as 25% of plays, in a special wild horses type package. I would not be surprised to see T2 taking over the base offense after the mid-point of the season if he shows he is ready and if either Orton or Quinn are struggling at all.

As for Brandy, I'm just not that worried about him. If he clears waivers I'd like to keep him for the scout team and future #3 guy.

Tebow will not be used in 25% of the plays. That would cause way too much discontinuity on offense taking him in and out 2-3 times a drive. IMO, he will either be starting, or see 5-6 short yardage plays a game, but I can't see much happening in between that.

xzn
05-25-2010, 10:41 AM
Tebow will not be used in 25% of the plays. That would cause way too much discontinuity on offense taking him in and out 2-3 times a drive. IMO, he will either be starting, or see 5-6 short yardage plays a game, but I can't see much happening in between that.

FTR, I said "as much as" 25%. I would see him having spread and wild horses formations, particularly against favorable matchups.