Broncos’ O stealing from Chargers

[Lonestar]

Broncos’ O stealing from Chargers
By MIKE KLIS

Broncos coach Josh McDaniels said earlier this week his offense would use more two-back sets on running downs this year. He added he, like all NFL coaches, steal formations and plays each offseason from teams who have demonstrated success with them. For proof, look at the Wildcat. Miami isn’t the only team running it.

Anyway, no team uses the two-back set like the San Diego Chargers. It’s why fullback Lorenzo Neal kept going to the Pro Bowl every year. I don’t study these things but I talk to people who do and they say that if you look at it, the Chargers and defending Super Bowl champion New Orleans Saints get remarkable passing production out of running sets. Two backs and one tight end; one back and two tight ends, that kind of thing.

The Saints’ Drew Brees and the Chargers’ Philip Rivers combined for 62 TD passes and more than 8,600 passing yards last year. Again, I’m not the expert but perhaps there’s something about the pass coming a little easier when the defense is honoring the run.

The Chargers are not a three-receiver, spread-them-out team. Then again, when you have a tight end like Antonio Gates, who needs a third wide out?

For the Broncos, adjustments to their short passing game is necessary following the departure of Brandon Marshall. The increase in two-back sets is a way to get H-back-like tight end Marquez Branson and ferocious lead blocker Spencer Larsen on the field. If it means a few less receiver screens _ and we can only hope _ and more running plays, so be it.

Something else about the two-back sets: They normally line up with the quarterback not in the shotgun but under center. I don’t need to seek out film-studyers to wonder if it isn’t more difficult for running backs to run out of the shotgun. It’s kind of like the difference between the standing and running long jump. A couple steps momentum into the handoff might help Knowshon Moreno take off on a few more 20-yard runs. (He had just two in 247 carries last year).

The past four seasons, five out of the last six, the Chargers have finished first in the AFC West and the Broncos have finished second. It’s seems like the Broncos stealing from the Chargers is long overdue.
http://blogs.denverpost.com/broncos/2010/05/20/broncos-o-stealing-from-chargers/

[NorthernLights]

Makes more sense than trying to steal from the Raiders!

[arapaho2]

Broncos’ O stealing from Chargers
By MIKE KLIS

Broncos coach Josh McDaniels said earlier this week his offense would use more two-back sets on running downs this year. He added he, like all NFL coaches, steal formations and plays each offseason from teams who have demonstrated success with them. For proof, look at the Wildcat. Miami isn’t the only team running it.

Anyway, no team uses the two-back set like the San Diego Chargers. It’s why fullback Lorenzo Neal kept going to the Pro Bowl every year. I don’t study these things but I talk to people who do and they say that if you look at it, the Chargers and defending Super Bowl champion New Orleans Saints get remarkable passing production out of running sets. Two backs and one tight end; one back and two tight ends, that kind of thing.

The Saints’ Drew Brees and the Chargers’ Philip Rivers combined for 62 TD passes and more than 8,600 passing yards last year. Again, I’m not the expert but perhaps there’s something about the pass coming a little easier when the defense is honoring the run.

The Chargers are not a three-receiver, spread-them-out team. Then again, when you have a tight end like Antonio Gates, who needs a third wide out?

For the Broncos, adjustments to their short passing game is necessary following the departure of Brandon Marshall. The increase in two-back sets is a way to get H-back-like tight end Marquez Branson and ferocious lead blocker Spencer Larsen on the field. If it means a few less receiver screens _ and we can only hope _ and more running plays, so be it.

Something else about the two-back sets: They normally line up with the quarterback not in the shotgun but under center. I don’t need to seek out film-studyers to wonder if it isn’t more difficult for running backs to run out of the shotgun. It’s kind of like the difference between the standing and running long jump. A couple steps momentum into the handoff might help Knowshon Moreno take off on a few more 20-yard runs. (He had just two in 247 carries last year).

The past four seasons, five out of the last six, the Chargers have finished first in the AFC West and the Broncos have finished second. It’s seems like the Broncos stealing from the Chargers is long overdue.
http://blogs.denverpost.com/broncos/2010/05/20/broncos-o-stealing-from-chargers/



about freakin time...finaly something positive i can beleive in

[Denver Native (Carol)]

about freakin time...finaly something positive i can beleive in

I'm sure Coach McD will be so happy to hear this

[arapaho2]

I'm sure Coach McD will be so happy to hear this


cool :cool:..happy to have helped

[dogfish]

yea, the two-back set is such a revolution in football. . . . :rolleyes:


klis probably heard about it for the first time this week. . . .

[slim]

yea, the two-back set is such a revolution in football. . . . :rolleyes:


klis probably heard about it for the first time this week. . . .

Don't mock the two-back set, dog.

It is going to catch on. Mark my words.

[Italianmobstr7]

Don't mock the two-back set, dog.

It is going to catch on. Mark my words.

Just like the forward pass ;)

[FanInAZ]

Don't mock the two-back set, dog.

It is going to catch on. Mark my words.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but haven't about 90% of all the teams that have won SBs over the years used a 2 RB, 2 WR & 1 TE formation for their base O? Like we did when we won our 2 SB, Dallas when they won their last 3 SBs, The 49rs when they won all of their SBs, etc? Spread Os may produce a lot of great passing stats and may allow you to beat non play-offs calibur Ds, but they usually come across a top notice D in the post season and lose.

As far as the "wildcat," it will only be used by teams who are trying to compensate for their deficiency at talent on O. Therefore, no team using it will ever win a SB.

[Tempus Fugit]

Just like the forward pass ;)

Someone's getting a little carried away. The forward pass will be a dud, just like personal computers.

[FanInAZ]

Makes more sense than trying to steal from the Raiders!

:D Next, were going to steal you QB & TE :D

[Slick]

Someone call Howard Griffith.

[arapaho2]

we can all joke...but the overwhelming rushing attempts were from a single back formation...which i never understood with having hillis on the bench...specially if the oline as some say was a issue

the majority of the passing plays were from a three wide single back formation

running more two back is just solid football

[silkamilkamonico]

Correct me if I'm wrong, but haven't about 90% of all the teams that have won SBs over the years used a 2 RB, 2 WR & 1 TE formation for their base O?

Not lately. Indianapolis, New England, and St Louis don't run 2 back sets primarily. San Diego hasn't ran 2 set formations primarily since 08'. This article is almost 3 years behind its time.

I know it's just my irrelevant opinion, but this news really disappoints me. For one, we do not have a legitimate FB. Spencer Larson? Really? He might be ok, but he's a LB by nature. Also, this just shows me more and more than McDaniels wants to be happy running the ball, and it won't surprise me to see Denver's offense in the next couple of years, with Tebow, having something like a 65-35 run to pass ratio.

The NFL is taylor made for passing offenses in the NFL right now, specifically with the rules of the game.

I won't mind as long as were winning, but it's going to be very hard watching a Baltimore Ravens type offense of yesteryear which it's handoff-handoff-pass. I've really bashed Shanahan's "success" in the 2000's, but at least his teams were entertaining to watch.

[silkamilkamonico]

we can all joke...but the overwhelming rushing attempts were from a single back formation...which i never understood with having hillis on the bench...specially if the oline as some say was a issue


I'm not sure it it's ironic, por coicidence, that the one year McDa niels could have used Hillis (because of injuries), he didn't, and then the year after he trades him he all of a sudden wants to run 2 RB sets.

Looking at our personnel and the fact that now McDaniels wants to make that change, I think he really missed the boat on this a year late.

[arapaho2]

I'm not sure it it's ironic, por coicidence, that the one year McDa niels could have used Hillis (because of injuries), he didn't, and then the year after he trades him he all of a sudden wants to run 2 RB sets.

Looking at our personnel and the fact that now McDaniels wants to make that change, I think he really missed the boat on this a year late.


no shit...just like i kept expalining on the other board...its not that i wanted hillis to start over moreno...but that a big brusing back like hillis who was voted the best blocking full back in the SEC could have been utilized alot better than the occassional fb lead up the gut, then relegated to the bench cause it didnt work

hillis and moreno in a 2 back set would have been a defensive nightmare

to bad the coach didnt realize it until this year

[NorthernLights]

Not lately. Indianapolis, New England, and St Louis don't run 2 back sets primarily. San Diego hasn't ran 2 set formations successfully since 08'. This article is almost 3 years behind its time.


Fixed it for you.

[FanInAZ]

Not lately. Indianapolis, New England, and St Louis don't run 2 back sets primarily.

Those teams were unique because that had all pro talent at both the QB & RB positions. Manning & Brady are 1st ballet HoFers, I believe Warner will eventually be voted in. Not many team are blessed with so much talent at both positions. I believe that most teams that try to duplicate their O philosophies with lesser talent will end up being disappointed.

[BigBroncLove]

I think part of the equation that makes the Chargers and Saints and a few other teams so damn successful out of split back or jumbo sets is the players they have to work with under those sets. Sproles is surprisingly capable when he's left in the pocket to pick up extra rushers plus he's someone who always has to be accounted for when swinging out from the backfield for a pass or a straight run. Obviously Tomlinson was capable of doing everything from the backfield, though with reduced results due to his injury and age. Biggest part though is the TE in Gates who is more than a capable blocker but also at the same time a great receiving TE. He's a nightmare of a matchup and can do everything a TE can be asked on the field well enough to make you worry about everything.

Saints had the same thing, though to lesser degree in Shockey, and equally dangerous tools in Bush and Thomas. Both teams 2nd TE are blockers more than receiving TE's.....

Point is all three major tools in split back, or in jumbo sets with the TE, for the Chargers or Saints is that each weapon is a matchup problem for most teams or so capable in the skill set they have that they are a consistent threat. I just don't see the Broncos getting the same threat and matchup issues from their personel.

Graham is primarily a blocker and isn't a great receiver. Serviceable but not a matchup issue. Quinn is in the same mold but without the proof in the pudding and Branson is an unknown quantity at this point. You hope he's everything that's been written about him, but ya just don't know yet. Moreno still has some room to grow to become a threat on multiple levels but I do think he can, its just a question of if and if so, then when.

I really hope the Broncos players out perform my expectations, or that these formations are what they've been needing to really shine, but I don't see the Broncos being as effective as SD or NO out of the same packages described in the story. Here's hoping I'm wrong though, nothing would make me happier. :beer:

I do think both sets will help with QB protection which is always good though, especially with the questions with Clady at the moment and that could be more important then using the TE/RB's effectively in such packages.

[Ravage!!!]

I think its interesting that they are using Drew Brees and Phillip Rivers as examples for TDs thrown and Yards passed. Do we really look like the offense that is going to pass TDs like Brees and Rivers? What QB on our roster would indicate this kind of offensive pass production?

If we have a 2-back set, it seems it should be because we are running the hell out of each one.

[BigBroncLove]

I think its interesting that they are using Drew Brees and Phillip Rivers as examples for TDs thrown and Yards passed. Do we really look like the offense that is going to pass TDs like Brees and Rivers? What QB on our roster would indicate this kind of offensive pass production?

If we have a 2-back set, it seems it should be because we are running the hell out of each one.

Running primarily out of a 2 back set would be a mistake IMO. Especially with a RB who ran out of gas last year and 2 injury issues waiting to happen. If you want ot run down your backfield in a hurry then you would run primarily out of 2 back sets. 2 back sets are great because its difficult to read for defenses. Who has to be accounted for in passing and blocking? and if its a run who gets it? Running primarily out of 2 back sets clears some of that up that plus it adds more wear and tear to your guys, whether out of pure play or one RB playing the part of an FB in some plays.

I think it would make far more sense to run a variety of plays from the formation to keep teams guessing and take advantage of when they don't get it right. Like I said though, I just dont know how effective that would be outside of a max protect because of the personel the Broncos have to field.

[TXBRONC]

Someone call Howard Griffith.

That would be great but remember he has bad neck.

[WARHORSE]

Stealing the two back set from the Chuggers.

I have now heard it all.


Thats one of the stupidest comments Ive heard in a long time.


We may not have done much out of the two back set with McD here, but to say any team in the NFL is stealing two back formations from anyone is just an ignorant comment.

If we stop running out of the shotgun and wasting plays, Im all for it.

But lets not act like its some revolutionary secret that the Dolts have been spearheading in the league.


Perhaps next we will shock the NFL by rolling out our QB and throwing on the run.

Seems to me like McDaniels has truly taken a look at his playcalling, recognized it as lacking, and made adjustments.

More long ball.

More two back sets and play action.


Halelujah.:coffee:

[Bosco]

I know it's just my irrelevant opinion, but this news really disappoints me. For one, we do not have a legitimate FB. Spencer Larson? Really? He might be ok, but he's a LB by nature. Also, this just shows me more and more than McDaniels wants to be happy running the ball, and it won't surprise me to see Denver's offense in the next couple of years, with Tebow, having something like a 65-35 run to pass ratio.

The NFL is taylor made for passing offenses in the NFL right now, specifically with the rules of the game.

I won't mind as long as were winning, but it's going to be very hard watching a Baltimore Ravens type offense of yesteryear which it's handoff-handoff-pass. I've really bashed Shanahan's "success" in the 2000's, but at least his teams were entertaining to watch.

Don't worry. As usual, Klis doesn't know what he's talking about. Heath Evans saw his career production skyrocket under McDaniels when they were both in New England, but obviously Evans was never a featured part of that offense.

It's pretty clear that Josh wants to get back to the heavy passing attack he ran in 2007 and that means we'll be running almost exclusively out of single back (either 2 TE/2 WR or 1 TE/3 WR) and shotgun formations.

[Slick]

Don't worry. As usual, Klis doesn't know what he's talking about. Heath Evans saw his career production skyrocket under McDaniels when they were both in New England, but obviously Evans was never a featured part of that offense.

It's pretty clear that Josh wants to get back to the heavy passing attack he ran in 2007 and that means we'll be running almost exclusively out of single back (either 2 TE/2 WR or 1 TE/3 WR) and shotgun formations.

Hopefully more runs out of a 2 TE,2 WR set. Running out of the shotgun doesn't do much for me, nor did it do much for Moreno IMO...unless our new interior lineman start blowing people off the ball regularly. I hope you're right Bosco.