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Ziggy
05-19-2008, 10:33 AM
Kicking, a habit

Young Bronco hopes to take on special duties dominated for years by veteran Elam

By FRANK SCHWAB THE GAZETTE

ENGLEWOOD - The draft is done, free agency has little left to offer and Matt Prater is still the top candidate to be the Broncos kicker.

Denver did sign undrafted rookie Garrett Hartley of Oklahoma and, if he and Prater falter, the Broncos could revisit the few veteran options in free agency. But Prater will have the chance to replace Jason Elam, the franchise’s all-time leading scorer who signed with Atlanta this offseason.

“Did he have three or four game-winners last year,” said Prater, who was informed it was four. “That’s pretty impressive. But I’m going to do my best and hopefully I’ll impress some guys. I know I can kick off well. Now I just have to keep the field goals straight.”

Prater’s career path isn’t familiar to most. He wasn’t drafted after finishing his career at Central Florida. Detroit signed him but cut him before the season.

After not playing in 2006, Prater began 2007 with Atlanta. He missed 3 of 4 field goal attempts, including two in a 13-7 loss to Jacksonville that led to his release.

“I had a bad game in Atlanta and that’s what everybody remembers me for,” he said.

Miami signed Prater to its practice squad last November before Denver signed him to its active roster Dec. 19 — his fourth team in about 16 months.

Prater didn’t assume he would be replacing Elam. He said “they told me it was a possibility,” even though coach Mike Shanahan angrily denied at the time that Prater was a backup plan if Elam left.

Denver looked at some kickers in free agency but didn’t sign one. The Broncos had nine draft picks but didn’t use one on a kicker.

Prater’s resume is short, but he has a strong leg. He said he once made a 72-yard field goal at a camp.

“It was windy,” said Prater, trying to downplay the kick.

He is raw, so the Broncos figure he can improve. Prater said he never had a kicking coach until he reached the NFL so he was unsure of many details of the craft.

For example, Prater said until arriving at his first NFL training camp in Detroit, he used to watch the ball being snapped. Kickers are supposed to watch the holder’s hand. He also was surprised when his holder asked him how he liked the ball. He said he had no idea; he just kicked it.

“I think that’s what coaches like about me is that I have potential,” Prater said.

The decision to let Elam go doesn’t appear popular among players. Cornerback Champ Bailey said he wanted Elam to be the kicker. Lost in quarterback Jay Cutler’s public criticism of receiver Brandon Marshall last month was his expressing surprise that Elam wasn’t re-signed.

“I am a little worried about that,” Cutler said.

Prater knows if he is Denver’s kicker, he’ll have a lot of eyes on him. “I just have to prove all the critics wrong, do my best and play to my strengths,” Prater said.

NightTrainLayne
05-19-2008, 10:41 AM
He also was surprised when his holder asked him how he liked the ball. He said he had no idea; he just kicked it.


Oh brother.

Part of me likes this raw kind of talent, and naivety. But the other part of me is like "WTF??!!!??"

G_Money
05-19-2008, 11:05 AM
Oh brother.

Part of me likes this raw kind of talent, and naivety. But the other part of me is like "WTF??!!!??"

You don't like the fact that the guy favored to win the kicking job learned his profession by watching the Clydesdales kick field-goals in Bud commercials?

Jeez NTL, have some faith. :rolleyes: I'm sure replacing a HOFer like Elam won't be a problem.

~G

SBboundBRONCOS
05-19-2008, 11:05 AM
Oh brother.

Part of me likes this raw kind of talent, and naivety. But the other part of me is like "WTF??!!!??"

yeah but on the article on the broncos website he said he hasnt missed his practice shots and i think he said hes taken about 50-60, he said once he figured out proper form and placement he has been kicking very straight

hopefully he can win the job and impress

NightTrainLayne
05-19-2008, 11:07 AM
yeah but on the article on the broncos website he said he hasnt missed his practice shots and i think he said hes taken about 50-60, he said once he figured out proper form and placement he has been kicking very straight

hopefully he can win the job and impress

That appeals to the non-"WTF" part of me. Keep it coming.

D1g1tal j1m
05-19-2008, 11:12 AM
yeah but on the article on the broncos website he said he hasnt missed his practice shots and i think he said hes taken about 50-60, he said once he figured out proper form and placement he has been kicking very straight

hopefully he can win the job and impress

Making them in practice is great and all but it all comes down to whether he can make them in games. When the field is torn to shreds, the home crowd is screaming for you to either make or miss, the opposing team block team in rushing at you to block your kick and your coach is assuming that you can make that 45 yard field goal because you can kick a 55 yarder in practice. Lets hope he can make them consistently in regular season games and pray really hard that he can make them in the playoffs when the pressure is 100 times greater.

3090
05-19-2008, 12:08 PM
Making them in practice is great and all but it all comes down to whether he can make them in games. When the field is torn to shreds, the home crowd is screaming for you to either make or miss, the opposing team block team in rushing at you to block your kick and your coach is assuming that you can make that 45 yard field goal because you can kick a 55 yarder in practice. Lets hope he can make them consistently in regular season games and pray really hard that he can make them in the playoffs when the pressure is 100 times greater.

I think we better be praying hard that it doesn't come to last second, Toro! type FG attempts this season.

I predict 100+ pro-Elam; anti Bowlen\Shanny\Prater threads started this season.

Be afraid. Be very afraid.

Traveler
05-19-2008, 12:38 PM
And so...the fluff pieces begin!

BOSSHOGG30
05-19-2008, 12:41 PM
I think Prater has a very good chance of winning this battle because he only has to beat out a rookie and you won't find many legs as good as what Prater has.

elsid13
05-19-2008, 12:56 PM
yeah but on the article on the broncos website he said he hasnt missed his practice shots and i think he said hes taken about 50-60, he said once he figured out proper form and placement he has been kicking very straight

hopefully he can win the job and impress

There is a lot of difference in kicking on the practice field and kicking on the 47 with :02 seconds to go at Mile High and down by 1. Let hope he learns quickly

Ziggy
05-19-2008, 12:59 PM
I think Prater has a very good chance of winning this battle because he only has to beat out a rookie and you won't find many legs as good as what Prater has.

Prater won't win the job on leg strength alone. Garrett Hartley also has a big leg. He has made a 70 yarder in practice, and is a weapon on kickoffs.

His sophmore year was erratic, when he made just 14 of 22 field goals. In his junior year he really excelled, making 17 of 18 attempts. His senior year he dropped off a bit, but still made 13 of 15 attempts. He should give Prater some good competition in training camp and preseason.

LRtagger
05-19-2008, 01:10 PM
Here's to hoping we can put the ball in the endzone more times than we did last year and not have to rely much on our "raw" kicker.

Beantown Bronco
05-19-2008, 01:17 PM
To steal from the other thread:

For the 2007 season, the average margin of defeat for an NFL team was 12.5 points.

People really over-estimate how many times games come down to the wire with a last second field goal attempt, and they use this to somehow bash the move to let Elam go before anyone even sees what Prater (or whoever wins the competition) can do in a game. Last season was really a fluke with all the last second kicks.

There is a reason Prater was my adopt a bronco back at the Mane. I believe.

SBboundBRONCOS
05-19-2008, 01:45 PM
There is a lot of difference in kicking on the practice field and kicking on the 47 with :02 seconds to go at Mile High and down by 1. Let hope he learns quickly

well obviously but i mean you have to start somewhere, and where better than practice. hopefully he can translate it to the field and be at least an avg kicker for us this year :beer:

BOSSHOGG30
05-19-2008, 01:49 PM
Prater won't win the job on leg strength alone. Garrett Hartley also has a big leg. He has made a 70 yarder in practice, and is a weapon on kickoffs.

His sophmore year was erratic, when he made just 14 of 22 field goals. In his junior year he really excelled, making 17 of 18 attempts. His senior year he dropped off a bit, but still made 13 of 15 attempts. He should give Prater some good competition in training camp and preseason.

Hartley might of had a good field goal percentage, but what that stat doesn't show you is his extra point attempts. Plus I don't know if one good year in college is good enough to count Prater out. Prater will have the advantage with experience and learning from Hanson and Elam doesn't hurt. He needs to learn not to try to kill the ball every time he kicks it and he will be fine. He is amazing on kick offs and just needs to become more consistant on field goal attempts....this comes with experience.

Ziggy
05-19-2008, 02:07 PM
Hartley might of had a good field goal percentage, but what that stat doesn't show you is his extra point attempts. Plus I don't know if one good year in college is good enough to count Prater out. Prater will have the advantage with experience and learning from Hanson and Elam doesn't hurt. He needs to learn not to try to kill the ball every time he kicks it and he will be fine. He is amazing on kick offs and just needs to become more consistant on field goal attempts....this comes with experience.

I wasn't concerned about the XP stats in college, but he actually had a better % than Prater did.

Matt Prater College career XP- 41/45 - 91%
Garrett Hartley College career XP- 169/176 - 96%


Prater wasn't only erratic on FG attempts in the NFL (1/4), but was also horrible in college (26/40). He just hasn't been an accurate kicker at all. He'll need to change that to have any chance at winning the job in Denver.

DomCasual
05-19-2008, 03:07 PM
Unfortunately, I think we're about to find out how the other half has lived for the last fifteen years.

Beantown Bronco
05-19-2008, 03:33 PM
Unfortunately, I think we're about to find out how the other half has lived for the last fifteen years.

Only if they cut my boy Prater. :D

3090
05-19-2008, 03:42 PM
Only if they cut my boy Prater. :D


Prater...Anubis....as you pointed out Bean...it SHOULDN'T amount to that much of a difference..

In 'theory'.

ktrain
05-21-2008, 09:14 PM
Unfortunately, I think we're about to find out how the other half has lived for the last fifteen years.

Yep, like kick-off's to the end zone or a couple of yards deep in the end zone instead of kick-offs to the opponent's 10 yd line. We will also experience a kicker who can kick outside of 40 yds on the road and 45 yds at home.

I loved Elam, but he has been a liability for 2-3 years now. Someone correctly pointed out that he would not have needed game winning kicks in a couple of the games if he had not missed chip shots earlier in the game. It is time to move on from Elam.......Jason thanks for 15 great years, see you in the hall of fame!

TXBRONC
05-21-2008, 09:21 PM
Yep, like kick-off's to the end zone or a couple of yards deep in the end zone instead of kick-offs to the opponent's 10 yd line. We will also experience a kicker who can kick outside of 40 yds on the road and 45 yds at home.

I loved Elam, but he has been a liability for 2-3 years now. Someone correctly pointed out that he would not have needed game winning kicks in a couple of the games if he had not missed chip shots earlier in the game. It is time to move on from Elam.......Jason thanks for 15 great years, see you in the hall of fame!

I wouldn't call Jason a liability. Yes he lost some of his range but he was still very clutch for us.

They say Special Teams will win you about four games every year. Four of our seven wins were won by a field goal.

Ziggy
05-23-2008, 11:46 AM
I wouldn't call Jason a liability. Yes he lost some of his range but he was still very clutch for us. They say Special Teams will win you about four games every year. Four of our seven wins were won by a field goal.

I agree that Jason was clutch. The problem with keeping him would have been that we use up an extra roster spot for a KO specialist. The Broncos just had too many holes last season. I think the days of keeping 3 kickers on the roster during the regular season in Denver is over. We just don't have the depth we used to, and it's now a luxury we can't afford.

Beantown Bronco
05-23-2008, 12:01 PM
The problem with keeping him would have been that we use up an extra roster spot for a KO specialist. The Broncos just had too many holes last season. I think the days of keeping 3 kickers on the roster during the regular season in Denver is over. We just don't have the depth we used to, and it's now a luxury we can't afford.

I agree that Denver appears to want to get away from the "kickoff specialist" roster spot, but I am not a big fan of that thinking. I'm a big fan of kickoff specialists, in certain instances.

Think about it for a second.....which is more valuable to a team:

1. A kickoff specialist that can kick the ball into the EZ for touchbacks 75% of the time

or

2. A #7 WR, CB or LB that only sees the field five or six times a game on kickoff and coverage units.....and gets MAYBE one special teams tackle a game.

Now, my scenario above obviously assumes that the kickoff specialist is not accurate enough to be the primary field goal kicker. We can't say whether or not that is the case yet with Prater (he's my adopted son over at the Mane, so you can guess how I think he'll fare), so don't assume I'm just focusing on the Broncos. I would apply this logic to any team that has an accurate field goal kicker that lacks a real booming leg. Obviously a team would ideally want an accurate field goal kicker that can also boom kickoffs, but that is not always a possibility.

Ziggy
05-23-2008, 12:19 PM
I agree that Denver appears to want to get away from the "kickoff specialist" roster spot, but I am not a big fan of that thinking. I'm a big fan of kickoff specialists, in certain instances.

Think about it for a second.....which is more valuable to a team:

1. A kickoff specialist that can kick the ball into the EZ for touchbacks 75% of the time

or

2. A #7 WR, CB or LB that only sees the field five or six times a game on kickoff and coverage units.....and gets MAYBE one special teams tackle a game.

Now, my scenario above obviously assumes that the kickoff specialist is not accurate enough to be the primary field goal kicker. We can't say whether or not that is the case yet with Prater (he's my adopted son over at the Mane, so you can guess how I think he'll fare), so don't assume I'm just focusing on the Broncos. I would apply this logic to any team that has an accurate field goal kicker that lacks a real booming leg. Obviously a team would ideally want an accurate field goal kicker that can also boom kickoffs, but that is not always a possibility.

True, but an extra DT or DE can keep the D-line fresher for the 4th quarter, and at other positions it's always nice to have that extra guy suited up during those 1 or 2 games a year when the Broncos sidelines looks like a M.AS.H. unit.

Beantown Bronco
05-23-2008, 01:52 PM
True, but an extra DT or DE can keep the D-line fresher for the 4th quarter, and at other positions it's always nice to have that extra guy suited up during those 1 or 2 games a year when the Broncos sidelines looks like a M.AS.H. unit.

True....but I think the Broncos cover themselves there by only keeping two QBs on their active roster. Not a lot of teams do that. So they in essence already have an "extra" slot for that depth guy regardless.

I just think the ability to pin the opponent deep outweighs the value of a guy who most likely isn't going to see any meaningful snaps anyway. And if that last guy on the roster does see any meaningful time in a game due to injuries or what-not, God help the team cause they've got bigger problems.

Superchop 7
05-24-2008, 06:23 AM
Rather have "Art-o-matic" and a kick off specialist.

Ziggy
05-25-2008, 08:19 AM
Pressure on Prater to straighten up
Replacing the top kicker in franchise history will be easier if the big issue of accuracy goes away.

By Jim Armstrong
The Denver Post
Article Last Updated: 05/24/2008 11:46:32 PM MDT


Prater: The kicker says, "I've got to be more consistent." If Matt Prater is to be held to Jason Elam's standards, then he'll kick a 63-yard field goal some day, just as Elam did in 1998.

A 63-yarder? During a game? With real, live defensive linemen in his face?

Shouldn't be a problem, Prater says. Unless, of course, the ball doesn't go through the uprights.

"I can kick the long ball," said Prater. "Sixty-three yards? I guarantee you it will go 60-plus. I don't know if it will go straight or not, but I'd definitely get it there."

Prater always gets it there. At 5-feet-10 and 180 pounds, he has a right leg that won't quit. The issue was, is and, until he proves otherwise, always will be accuracy. He has attempted four field goals in his NFL career and converted one, prompting the Atlanta Falcons to show him the door two weeks into the 2007 season.

Before that, during his days as Brandon Marshall's teammate at Central Florida, he missed 12 out of 27 attempts from 30 to 39 yards. Strange as it seems, he was better from long distance, nailing 20 out of 30 attempts from 40 yards and beyond, including one from 53.

"I don't know what it is," Prater said. "I had a better percentage from 40 and out than 40 and in. I've got to get that straightened out. I've got to be more consistent."

Well, yeah, that's one prerequisite for the job. He'll also have to have thick skin. Stuff happens, it seems, when you follow a legend. Just as Brian Griese once replaced John Elway, Prater will try to replace Elam, by all accounts the greatest kicker in franchise history.

And so it was that, as the Broncos wound down the first week of their annual quarterback camp, a reporter wanted to throw a few questions Prater's way.

"You want to ask me about Jason Elam," Prater said.

Bingo.

"I've been hearing more about what he has done in the past than what I might do or what I could do," he said. "I understand that. He was a legend here. I'm just going to do the best I can and not try to compare myself to him."

Not that there's any comparison to be made. Elam is on pace to become one of a handful of kickers to surpass the 2,000-point mark. He kicked four game-winning field goals last season, the most in the NFL since 1990. Prater? He has a lot of potential. Oh, and did we mention that 45-yarder he nailed for the Falcons last season?

A lot of legwork

None of this is going to be easy and Prater knows it. Aside from Jay Cutler, he could be the most scrutinized Broncos player in 2008. And that's assuming he wins the job vacated when Elam signed with the Falcons. The Broncos also signed undrafted rookie Garrett Hartley out of Oklahoma.

Not that Hartley figures to get the gig. The plan is for Prater to handle field goals and kickoffs, the kind of multi-tasking that Elam wasn't up to in his latter years. His forte was field goals, the more pressure-packed the better.

Champ Bailey is already on record as saying that Elam's replacement had better show the other players during the offseason camps that he can handle the job.

"You hate to lose a guy like Elam," Bailey said. "That's where we've really got to prove ourselves, in the kicking game. If we can find somebody to go out and make the clutch kicks like he did, then we'll be fine. If not, you can lose games."

But then, Prater has had time to prepare himself for the moment. He was in Detroit's camp in 2006, not so much to win the job, but keep his name on the NFL radar screen. Then he signed with the Miami Dolphins,

only to have Nick Saban jump ship for Alabama a few weeks later. Enter veteran kicker Jay Feely, exit Prater.
His cameo appearance with the Falcons produced one field goal in four attempts, but know this about Prater: The guy can kick off. He had three touchbacks in four attempts with Atlanta, and two out of seven with the Broncos.

"Under the gun"

But about his field-goal kicking . . .

"Coming out of college, I was considered a kickoff specialist," Prater said. "Personally, I think I'm one of the best kickoff guys around, but I've got to balance it out. I'm working on the field goals. I've got the leg strength. Now I've got to get them straightened out."

For the record, the Broncos didn't want Elam to leave. They offered him more than $2 million for the 2008 season, which would have made him the third-highest-paid kicker in the NFL. But the Falcons' $3.3 million in bonus money, which essentially guaranteed him a two-year run in his hometown, was too much for Elam to turn down.

"Any time you offer somebody a contract that's the third-highest at his position, that means you wanted the guy," said Broncos coach Mike Shanahan. "Jason would have been here as long as he wanted. He got an offer he liked better, and that's part of free agency."

So now Elam, Shanahan's security blanket for all those years, is gone. In his place is a 23-year-old kid with a cannon for a leg and, at the moment, a lot of question marks for a legacy.

"He did a great job with kickoffs," Shanahan said. "Now the question is, can he kick field goals and be consistent in that area? Until he does it, you don't know for sure. With all kickers, you never know until they get put under the gun."

The answer, Shanahan says, is simple.

"We don't plan on kicking field goals," he said. "We're going to score touchdowns. I hate kicking field goals anyhow. Maybe we got a little too secure with Jason around. If we score touchdowns, we won't have to worry about it."

Jim Armstrong: 303-954-1269 or jmarmstrong@denverpost.com

hamrob
05-25-2008, 01:42 PM
Here's my prediction:

To start the regular season....the Broncos starting kicker will be Vanderjerk!

Kickoffs are nice...but if you can't hit 90% or so of your FG's you're bagging groceries! So, the next time you visit King Supers...be sure to say hi to Matt!

Ziggy
05-25-2008, 02:12 PM
I'm going with the underdog UDFA kicker. Prater just hasn't shown anything in either his college or pro career to suggest that he might make a decent NFL field goal kicker.

TXBRONC
05-25-2008, 09:09 PM
Here's my prediction:

To start the regular season....the Broncos starting kicker will be Vanderjerk!

Kickoffs are nice...but if you can't hit 90% or so of your FG's you're bagging groceries! So, the next time you visit King Supers...be sure to say hi to Matt!


Maybe so, but I also don't expect Vanderjagt to be our kicker either.

Fan in Exile
05-28-2008, 01:48 AM
Just wanted to add this article to this thread (http://myespn.go.com/blogs/hashmarks)


Posted by ESPN.com's Bill Williamson


The Broncos will have one of the most inexperienced kicker\punter combinations in the NFL this year.

None of the punters and kickers working with the team has any NFL experience to speak of. Yet, Denver special teams coach Scott O'Brien is confident the team will field solid performers at both spots. At this point, Denver appears to be shying away from signing a veteran kicker or punter or until training camp if necessary.

While it is early, the leading candidates to be the kicker and punter, respectively, are Matt Prater and Brett Kern. Prater finished last season in Denver and Kern is an undrafted rookie from Toledo. The Broncos have been unsettled in recent years at punter but had one of the most reliable kickers in the NFL in the form of Jason Elam. After 15 years in Denver, Elam shocked the league by signing with Atlanta as a free agent.

"We have some guys here that are very good, very confident," O'Brien said. "We're in a time of change, but I think we'll end up with some guys who end up doing a very good job for us. Everybody some to start at some point and this is a starting point for a lot of our guys."

There is also a battle at long snapper. Defensive lineman Josh Mallard is working there and could challenge incumbent Mike Leach.

SBboundBRONCOS
05-28-2008, 04:16 AM
well at least we are working on getting rid of our specialists in each area, if mallard can snap well leach will be gone seeing as thats all hes good for while it seems we want 1 guy for both FGs and punts

that opens up 2 roster spot over last seasons, i like the thinking (im on record as saying i hate specialist/situational players)

Lonestar
05-28-2008, 12:49 PM
well at least we are working on getting rid of our specialists in each area, if mallard can snap well leach will be gone seeing as thats all hes good for while it seems we want 1 guy for both FGs and punts

that opens up 2 roster spot over last seasons, i like the thinking (im on record as saying i hate specialist/situational players)

Better yet lets get rid of all of those ST players only..

Then I'd guess we should find something else for the punter to play and same goes for the kicker..

Maybe they could back up at Safety..Or TE/FB

Or better yet lets find those players that make the squad that can punt and kick off also.

Leach has been one of the best special teams players for years not only LS it but in most cases was down field making the tackle or breaking up the wedge for others to do so..

rcsodak
05-28-2008, 07:29 PM
I think Prater has a very good chance of winning this battle because he only has to beat out a rookie and you won't find many legs as good as what Prater has.

Garret's leg isn't spaghetti. He was good at kicking off into the endzones, and they didn't have to be line drives. Plus he can kick with great height. Up until his senior year, he was very consistent on fg's as well. He just got into a funk...as many kickers do.

Could be an interesting pre-season.

rcsodak
05-28-2008, 07:31 PM
There is a lot of difference in kicking on the practice field and kicking on the 47 with :02 seconds to go at Mile High and down by 1. Let hope he learns quickly

Who did that? :confused:

TXBRONC
05-28-2008, 07:40 PM
Garret's leg isn't spaghetti. He was good at kicking off into the endzones, and they didn't have to be line drives. Plus he can kick with great height. Up until his senior year, he was very consistent on fg's as well. He just got into a funk...as many kickers do.

Could be an interesting pre-season.


Of course his leg isn't spaghetti, its linguine. :D

SBboundBRONCOS
05-28-2008, 08:47 PM
Better yet lets get rid of all of those ST players only..

Then I'd guess we should find something else for the punter to play and same goes for the kicker..

Maybe they could back up at Safety..Or TE/FB

Or better yet lets find those players that make the squad that can punt and kick off also.

Leach has been one of the best special teams players for years not only LS it but in most cases was down field making the tackle or breaking up the wedge for others to do so..

you took that completely the wrong way, im not saying ST players (i dont really consider them starters) but i just hate that we have in the past had a lot of players that come in on certain situations, and while i understand that every team needs these players we just seem to have too many

like leach for example would only come in on punts, moss/doom are considered pass rush specialist although to early to tell, lynch is really only avail to help run support,

my thinking is it just makes it too easy to get into the head of a team if tehy send in certain players all the time for a situation. last year in the beginning selvin would be our screen back while henry would pound it out. it made it pretty easy to know what we were running,

that and just the plainly obvious of last season :coffee: