No Cooling His Jets ~ Robertson Article

[Den21vsBal19]

Fairly Long RMN piece on Robertson ~



Click-clack.

Stacks of heavy metal repeatedly smack against other steel, serving as an offseason sound- track for Dewayne Robertson as he prepares for his first season with the Broncos.

The cacophony is the perfect complement to the defensive tackle's relative silence as he lets his muscles do their work.

Even the presence of former college buddy Marlon McCree, with whom he has reunited as a teammate in Denver, can't change the clicking and clacking to chitting and chatting in the Broncos weight room. Even though the two have much to catch up on, seven years removed from their days at the University of Kentucky and only periodically having touched base since.

But McCree understands why a fist bump and a couple of "what-ups" at Dove Valley will have to do for the moment.

After five seasons with the New York Jets, where Robertson was hailed as the next Warren Sapp before eventually being traded for possibly nothing, it's clear the No. 4 overall pick in the 2003 draft has a point to prove to himself and the rest of the NFL.

If it takes being the strong, silent type now to become a noisy, disruptive force in 2008, that's what Robertson is doing.

"He's got blinders on," McCree observed recently. "I'm his boy, and I can't even get him off track. So I know, definitely, he's going to be a threat this year."


That said, Robertson seems to be a low-risk, high-reward acquisition:

* He's low cost - the Broncos owe the Jets no draft-pick compensation if Robertson plays fewer than 65 percent of Denver's defensive snaps next season.

* The contract is tied to the lineman's participation on a defensive front that generally rotates eight players.

* His apparent ability to manage his pain.

Full Article (http://www.rockymountainnews.com/news/2008/may/17/no-cooling-his-jets/)

[omac]

Nice article. :salute:


A couple doctors have told me it's about how much you can take and you can deal with it. But I've been dealing with it for five years. . . . I'm going to go out and show people I can play as long as I want to with this kind of injury."

I liked this part. He's an iron man like McNair; he's been playing through the injury and pain. Shows he has character.

[Den21vsBal19]

Nice article. :salute:



I liked this part. He's an iron man like McNair; he's been playing through the injury and pain. Shows he has character.
Certainly give the impression he wants to play football, and not just make a living out of it................big difference, IMO

[Fan in Exile]

I do hope that we don't end up having to give up our second rounder next year for him though. If he does play 80% of the snaps he's worth a second rounder but I'm a little greedy. :)

[Drill-N-Fill]

I do hope that we don't end up having to give up our second rounder next year for him though. If he does play 80% of the snaps he's worth a second rounder but I'm a little greedy. :)

I believe a 3rd is as high as it goes. But yeah, I don't want to give that up either.

[TXBRONC]

Great article Den21. If anyone hasn't gone to the link and read the rest of it I encourage you to do so.

[elsid13]

That was nice contract Shanahan got him to buy into too.

From the article

Just before the draft, the Broncos retooled the final two years of Dewayne Robertson's contract and tacked on an extra four-year extension through 2013. The revised deal:

$900,000 annual salary for the 2008 and '09 seasons.

$3 million roster bonus.

$4 million is what the contract counts against the Broncos' '08 salary cap.

$11 million in playing-time incentives he could earn in 2009, which means the contract could max out at $35 million over six years.

65% of the defensive snaps is the threshold for determining what compensation the Broncos owe the Jets. If Robertson plays fewer than that in 2008, the Jets get nothing. The cost becomes a fifth-rounder if he plays 65 percent to 70 percent of the snaps, a third-rounder if he plays 70 percent to 80 percent, and a second-rounder if he's on the field more than 80 percent of the time.

[Northman]

Sounds like he has an axe to grind. Im still skeptical about it but if he can prove me wrong then its nothing a but a good thing.

[Ziggy]

Even Treveor Pryce didn't play more than 80% of the snaps here when he was healthy. Besides, the more he plays, the more he is dominating the LOS. Whatever pick we end up giving up for him will be worth it IMO. I can't wait to see how he plays when he is put in a position to actually utilize his talents to the fullest. He is also going to take a lot of pressure off of Marcus Thomas and allow him to develop faster. Training camp and preseason are going to be fun to watch this year.

[dogfish]

trades are pretty much what our personnel department has had to hang it's hat on, and this is another excellent one. . .

[Lonestar]

trades are pretty much what our personnel department has had to hang it's hat on, and this is another excellent one. . .

yep those browncos and the walker trades were something weren't they..

Although the Champ for poorti$$$$$ made up for them..

[dogfish]

yep those browncos and the walker trades were something weren't they..

Although the Champ for poorti$$$$$ made up for them..

nothing wrong with those trades. . . . :confused:




unless you really thought reuben droughns was a superstar. . . and the walker trade was a good one-- it's no one's fault that his knee crumbled-- it happens. . . . the chance to get a top #1 WR for a 2nd rounder was worth the risk, and if he'd continued to play the way he did that first year, no one would have called it a bad trade. . . you know i share your opinion of our front office for the most part, but i don't think it's fair to blame them for walker's knee-- ACL tears are as common as shoulder pads in today's NFL, and most guys come back from them just fine. . .

[ApaOps5]

yep those browncos and the walker trades were something weren't they..

Although the Champ for poorti$$$$$ made up for them..

Well to be fair the Walker trade was worth it at the time and for the first year. But I thought he was the anti-Lelie and was dead wrong. Wishing nothing but the worst for that clown.

[Lonestar]

nothing wrong with those trades. . . . :confused:




unless you really thought reuben droughns was a superstar. . . and the walker trade was a good one-- it's no one's fault that his knee crumbled-- it happens. . . . the chance to get a top #1 WR for a 2nd rounder was worth the risk, and if he'd continued to play the way he did that first year, no one would have called it a bad trade. . . you know i share your opinion of our front office for the most part, but i don't think it's fair to blame them for walker's knee-- ACL tears are as common as shoulder pads in today's NFL, and most guys come back from them just fine. . .

Yet he was and IS an head case so knee not withstanding, what really looked like a top flight trade for walker well....

Who knows what would have worked out had the knee not happened, would Marshal have blossomed or would there be cat fighting because he did?

[Lonestar]

Well to be fair the Walker trade was worth it at the time and for the first year. But I thought he was the anti-Lelie and was dead wrong. Wishing nothing but the worst for that clown.

If we were going the draft a WR that year he was my guy not ashley.. While I had seen how good ashley was a couple of year when they played UTEP I knew that walker was the better of the two.. But after mikey DAFTED him I bought into his BS, about how great ashley was going to be..

That was the beginning of the end for me believing mikey any farther than I could throw the "mikey the GM"..

IMO WR should never be drafted and only tolerated after they have been in the league 2-3 years of playing.. BY then one should know if they are a going sink or swim, and in most cases know if he or she is going to be head case..

[ApaOps5]

Well I don't have the unrequited hate for Mike Shanahan like you do but I also thought Lelei would be a solid number one WR. But you can't figure out heart and softness from stats. Lelei was both. Can't put that on Mike.

[TXBRONC]

Well I don't have the unrequited hate for Mike Shanahan like you do but I also thought Lelei would be a solid number one WR. But you can't figure out heart and softness from stats. Lelei was both. Can't put that on Mike.

Lelie was drafted where many experts thought he would go.

[Acedude]

Well to be fair the Walker trade was worth it at the time and for the first year. But I thought he was the anti-Lelie and was dead wrong. Wishing nothing but the worst for that clown.

I thought it was fairly stupid to trade a high 2nd rounder for a guy that had knee-swelling in his future written all over him. I would never condone trading a #2 pick for a WR coming off an ACL. In general, I wouldn't trade for any player coming off an ACL. The percentages aren't there.

[TXBRONC]

I thought it was fairly stupid to trade a high 2nd rounder for a guy that had knee-swelling in his future written all over him. I would never condone trading a #2 pick for a WR coming off an ACL. In general, I wouldn't trade for any player coming off an ACL. The percentages aren't there.

If this were 30 years ago you would be spot on about players coming off of an ACL. However ACL injuries are not the career enders that they used to be.

[Acedude]

If we were going the draft a WR that year he was my guy not ashley.. While I had seen how good ashley was a couple of year when they played UTEP I knew that walker was the better of the two.. But after mikey DAFTED him I bought into his BS, about how great ashley was going to be..

That was the beginning of the end for me believing mikey any farther than I could throw the "mikey the GM"..

IMO WR should never be drafted and only tolerated after they have been in the league 2-3 years of playing.. BY then one should know if they are a going sink or swim, and in most cases know if he or she is going to be head case..

Meself, I thought Shanahan made something out of Lelie. He and Kubiak worked him into the offense well. They managed to get him into one-on-one situations with the LCB, and Lelie could beat any CB in the League in a straight sprint down the sideline. Plummer constantly underthrew him, but Lelie could make the tough over the shoulder/on top of his helmet/underthrown catch. Lelie was a big part of the O for a couple years "stretching the field." I think shanahan was very disappointed Lelie wasn't around for the Cutler era, me too. Shanahan/Cutler/Lelie could have been a real nice combo.

[Acedude]

Well I don't have the unrequited hate for Mike Shanahan like you do but I also thought Lelei would be a solid number one WR. But you can't figure out heart and softness from stats. Lelei was both. Can't put that on Mike.

Lelie actually contributed well in his short time in Denver. He was here 3 years? Two of those years I think he led the League in YPC. Shanahan had a plan for Lelie, too bad Lelie made the absolutely wrong decision to leave the nest Shanahan had made for him. Boy, Lelie played his cards as badly as anybody ever has in the NFL. It was kind of funny in a way how it played out. I remember reading how Javon and Lelie were working out together prior to Lelie refusing to report to TC. Javon I surmise made a fool out of Lelie, worked him like an idiot, manipulated Lelie into a foolish decision.

[TXBRONC]

Lelie actually contributed well in his short time in Denver. He was here 3 years? Two of those years I think he led the League in YPC. Shanahan had a plan for Lelie, too bad Lelie made the absolutely wrong decision to leave the nest Shanahan had made for him. Boy, Lelie played his cards as badly as anybody ever has in the NFL. It was kind of funny in a way how it played out. I remember reading how Javon and Lelie were working out together prior to Lelie refusing to report to TC. Javon I surmise made a fool out of Lelie, worked him like an idiot, manipulated Lelie into a foolish decision.

If he hadn't stepped all over himself the way he did he might have been starting again.

[Lonestar]

Well I don't have the unrequited hate for Mike Shanahan like you do but I also thought Lelei would be a solid number one WR. But you can't figure out heart and softness from stats. Lelei was both. Can't put that on Mike.

Well if your referring to me I do not hate mikey the coach, just think mikey the GM left alot to be desired.. You are reading way to many posts that are not true.. Because I do not believe every word that mikey speaks and have been vocal about it many folks think I hate him.. I'm just a realist that speaks his mind..

I saw ashley take UTEP apart a couple of times.. In one game had single handedly destroyed them.. 250+ yards, I forget how many TD's but it was more than a few..

He did that in the WAC because frankly most teams in the WAC never played alot of D he was truly a man among boys..

But when he got to the NFL every CB was fast and strong, he thought he could ride the coat tails of his college career, his speed and he admitted he really never tried to learn route running the first season or so in DEN.
He had one bang up year in 2004 but then all WR had a great year when the CB were held to rigid ROE calls..

A great deal of his catches were out of bounds circus style catches and a good many in the end zone.. but far to few over the middle where it seemed to have short arms..

He became a deep threat only and with Jake who was not know for his strong arm he was IMO stupid beyond normal comprehension in thinking he should be made #1 over Rod, and subsequently demanding a trade..

God only knows what him and Jay could have done.. But dumb is as dumb does..

[Lonestar]

Lelie actually contributed well in his short time in Denver. He was here 3 years? Two of those years I think he led the League in YPC. Shanahan had a plan for Lelie, too bad Lelie made the absolutely wrong decision to leave the nest Shanahan had made for him. Boy, Lelie played his cards as badly as anybody ever has in the NFL. It was kind of funny in a way how it played out. I remember reading how Javon and Lelie were working out together prior to Lelie refusing to report to TC. Javon I surmise made a fool out of Lelie, worked him like an idiot, manipulated Lelie into a foolish decision.

Yes he was great speedster.. but his YAC was about the worst for receivers in DEN.. A one trick pony make a circus catch and got out of bounds, fall to the ground or was in the end zone..

There were very few catch and runs for TD's, He was a long strider and while he had good 40 times getting up toe speed was not his strongest suit.. He did not have the toughness it took to get cleanly off the LOS and frankly as we all know our OLINE was not designed for "forever" pass protection.. He just took to long to get open to make the throws he was best at catching.

As I said in my last post he was double DUMB for leaving when he did.. And considering he has flopped big time in his last two teams I have to wonder about his actual desire..

I had not heard that jaywalk and ashley had talked I knew they had the same agent.. But it would not surprise me that ashley was dumb enough to listen to "Mr. I don't think I'm compatible with the Broncos"..

[omac]

yep those browncos and the walker trades were something weren't they..

Although the Champ for poorti$$$$$ made up for them..

Warren was okay as a run stuffer; I'm sure I'm not the only one who regrets Bates letting him go last season. Javon Walker has great skills when healthy; look no further back than the early games last season. He could stretch the field, beat defenders one on one, strong off the line of scrimage, is fearless going through the middle knowing he's going to take a big hit, has very good yards after the catch, great hands and toughness, and has billions of moves to juke a defender, runs great routes and has excellent timing, and is a top notch hard working blocker to boot. Not that many receivers in the league with his talent and skills set. He had a pretty good year for Denver, so it looked like it was a good gamble that he would stay healthy after his initial injury.

[TXBRONC]

Warren was okay as a run stuffer; I'm sure I'm not the only one who regrets Bates letting him go last season. Javon Walker has great skills when healthy; look no further back than the early games last season. He could stretch the field, beat defenders one on one, strong off the line of scrimage, is fearless going through the middle knowing he's going to take a big hit, has very good yards after the catch, great hands and toughness, and has billions of moves to juke a defender, runs great routes and has excellent timing, and is a top notch hard working blocker to boot. Not that many receivers in the league with his talent and skills set. He had a pretty good year for Denver, so it looked like it was a good gamble that he would stay healthy after his initial injury.

The Browncos help to get us to a 13-3 record and while they had their flaws they still could defend the run unlike when the "new sheriff" Jim Bates rolled into town.

[ApaOps5]

Well if your referring to me I do not hate mikey the coach, just think mikey the GM left alot to be desired.. You are reading way to many posts that are not true.. Because I do not believe every word that mikey speaks and have been vocal about it many folks think I hate him.. I'm just a realist that speaks his mind..

I wasn't trying to knock you, I just don't hate shanny as much. I agree I do not like Shanny the GM but its not worth losing Shanny the coach if you fire Shanny the GM. One will not exist without the other.

[Brand]

Hate to break up the curcle jerk on the "failings" of the front office, but with Thomas, Robinson and Powell, it sounds to me like they have three fourths of a pretty fair Dline shaping up. I wonder who will be the fourth DT? Mallard? Or am I missing some one?

Which area will the drama queens stew about next?

[Superchop 7]

Lelie actually contributed well in his short time in Denver. He was here 3 years? Two of those years I think he led the League in YPC. Shanahan had a plan for Lelie, too bad Lelie made the absolutely wrong decision to leave the nest Shanahan had made for him. Boy, Lelie played his cards as badly as anybody ever has in the NFL. It was kind of funny in a way how it played out. I remember reading how Javon and Lelie were working out together prior to Lelie refusing to report to TC. Javon I surmise made a fool out of Lelie, worked him like an idiot, manipulated Lelie into a foolish decision.


__________________________________________________ ________________________________

Lelie was a panzy, period, end of story.

I didn't like the guy from day 1.

Ask Scribe,

My record speaks.

Where is he now ????

No where.

Coach says...."All you have to do is beat out a 34 year old wide receiver named Rod Smith to be number one"

What did Rod Smith say ?

Your gonna have to drag me off this field before I quit.

Guess who ended up winning the number 1 slot,

Rod Smith did not have the speed, nor the heigth.

All he had was heart.

Lelie ? .............. All "you" had to do was beat a 34 year old "non-drafted" wide receiver.

Guess you got schooled,

This "is" Broncos Country son.

If you want it......"earn it"....we hand nothing....to no one.

[dogfish]

Hate to break up the curcle jerk on the "failings" of the front office, but with Thomas, Robinson and Powell, it sounds to me like they have three fourths of a pretty fair Dline shaping up. I wonder who will be the fourth DT? Mallard? Or am I missing some one?

Which area will the drama queens stew about next?



alvin mckinley. . . .





and WTF are people talking about lilly? i thought that shit was dead and buried. . . .

[slim]

alvin mckinley. . . .





and WTF are people talking about lilly? i thought that shit was dead and buried. . . .

It never ends....tune in next week for the Jake Plummer debate.

[Lonestar]

Warren was okay as a run stuffer; I'm sure I'm not the only one who regrets Bates letting him go last season. Javon Walker has great skills when healthy; look no further back than the early games last season. He could stretch the field, beat defenders one on one, strong off the line of scrimage, is fearless going through the middle knowing he's going to take a big hit, has very good yards after the catch, great hands and toughness, and has billions of moves to juke a defender, runs great routes and has excellent timing, and is a top notch hard working blocker to boot. Not that many receivers in the league with his talent and skills set. He had a pretty good year for Denver, so it looked like it was a good gamble that he would stay healthy after his initial injury.

He was a great pickup, while he was actually on the field, but where is he now and what did we get for him.

That seemed to be the gold standard in the past for most fans.. Why not now as a part of talent eval 101.

[Lonestar]

I wasn't trying to knock you, I just don't hate shanny as much. I agree I do not like Shanny the GM but its not worth losing Shanny the coach if you fire Shanny the GM. One will not exist without the other.

We really do not know that for sure anymore do we..

Lots of luster has been knocked of the mastermind moniker.. He certainly would not get the dual positions anywhere else after the cluster **** he has had in DEN.

Pat may have already given him an ultimatum win and play respectable ball this year, no more DAFTs, nor failed FA's or .....

[Stargazer]

poorti$$$$$

Why do you, and some others I have read on forums like to rag on Portis. He played well for Denver and was an up and coming young RB in the NFL. It's not like Portis was not going to get paid to play RB. Whether it the Denver Broncos or another NFL team, someone was going to pay him to play running back. He was 22 years old when he left the team. I haven't seen a RB nowhere as good as Portis walk through Dove Valley since he has left.

[Lonestar]

Why do you, and some others I have read on forums like to rag on Portis. He played well for Denver and was an up and coming young RB in the NFL. It's not like Portis was not going to get paid to play RB. Whether it the Denver Broncos or another NFL team, someone was going to pay him to play running back. He was 22 years old when he left the team. I haven't seen a RB nowhere as good as Portis walk through Dove Valley since he has left.

yep he was good, but he did not want to play in a "cow town" he wanted the ca$$$h and to play in a "real city"..


Perhaps you are OK with the eh way he dissed Denver when he left and the weaselly way he did it. But I for one am not..

If you like him so much pay for a redskins ticket

[Stargazer]

yep he was good, but he did not want to play in a "cow town" he wanted the ca$$$h and to play in a "real city"..


Perhaps you are OK with the eh way he dissed Denver when he left and the weaselly way he did it. But I for one am not..

If you like him so much pay for a redskins ticket

Denver paid, he would have certainly played in orange and blue. And what does the Redskins tix have to do with anything.:rolleyes: Not surprised.

Just look at what has been brought in after him. 2nd for Bell. 3rd for Maurice. UDFA Young. UDFA Hall. The oft-injured Travis Henry lands a huge contract and brought in. Heck, look at this year. The team spends a 5th on the ASU RB Torain. Who else am I missing?

[Lonestar]

Denver paid, he would have certainly played in orange and blue. And what does the Redskins tix have to do with anything.:rolleyes: Not surprised.

Just look at what has been brought in after him. 2nd for Bell. 3rd for Maurice. UDFA Young. UDFA Hall. The oft-injured Travis Henry lands a huge contract and brought in. Heck, look at this year. The team spends a 5th on the ASU RB Torain. Who else am I missing?

I said he was good no doubt. When he left here he trash talked the franchise and the city..

Perhaps that doe not offend you but it does me.

I'd rather have a lesser talent that appreciates what he is given than aloud mouth punks that thinks he is owed more..

Most of our RB if given a decent block can perform almost like he could.. Perhaps we are on the way to giving young back a chance to shine..

your correct tater was a waste of a DAFT choice, as was calrette.. UDFAs cost us nothing and if they can get us 1200 a year they are worth every cent they make..

MY comment was if you like poorti$$$ so much perhaps it is time for you to become skins fan..

[Stargazer]

I said he was good no doubt. When he left here he trash talked the franchise and the city..

Perhaps that doe not offend you but it does me.

I'd rather have a lesser talent that appreciates what he is given than aloud mouth punks that thinks he is owed more..

Most of our RB if given a decent block can perform almost like he could.. Perhaps we are on the way to giving young back a chance to shine..

your correct tater was a waste of a DAFT choice, as was calrette.. UDFAs cost us nothing and if they can get us 1200 a year they are worth every cent they make..

MY comment was if you like poorti$$$ so much perhaps it is time for you to become skins fan..

Portis was a former Bronco. Not everyone was excited for the trade for whatever reason, and I have my own opinion. But, we haven't seen that shine since Clinton has left. His talent has not been replaced since he left. Players have opinions on former teams all the time when leaving their former organization. Whether he was a punk or not, he was definately going to earn more whether it's Denver paying or another team.

[Superchop 7]

My problem is Champ.

Complains like a girl,

And yet,

Won't restructure. (we could afford alot if it weren't for your greed)

Biggest contract we have.

Spends all his time drunk at Hooters on S Parker Rd with his brother.


Put your money where your mouth is Champ.

You want players, ???

Wake up.

We only have so much money.

"YOU" are the problem.

I want your contract gone.

You complained ????? about personell ??"?? ...........and you have a huge contract ???

What have "you" done for us lately ?

(Complained......never giving a buck to anyone else)

Glad when your gone.

Paymah is close buddy, and he "never" complains.

He just beats his man.

2/3 of the Earth is covered with water........the rest is covered by Paymah.

[Ziggy]

My problem is Champ.

Complains like a girl,

And yet,

Won't restructure. (we could afford alot if it weren't for your greed)

Biggest contract we have.

Spends all his time drunk at Hooters on S Parker Rd with his brother.


Put your money where your mouth is Champ.

You want players, ???

Wake up.

We only have so much money.

"YOU" are the problem.

I want your contract gone.

You complained ????? about personell ??"?? ...........and you have a huge contract ???

What have "you" done for us lately ?

(Complained......never giving a buck to anyone else)

Glad when your gone.

Paymah is close buddy, and he "never" complains.

He just beats his man.

2/3 of the Earth is covered with water........the rest is covered by Paymah.

You can whine about champ all you want, but he earns his money and makes up a lot for the lack of talent on the D-line. He'll be in the Hall of Fame, and deservedly so. Paymah is close? Give me a break. I think you've been playing too much Madden.

[Timmy!]

My problem is Champ.

Complains like a girl,

And yet,

Won't restructure. (we could afford alot if it weren't for your greed)

Biggest contract we have.

Spends all his time drunk at Hooters on S Parker Rd with his brother.


Put your money where your mouth is Champ.

You want players, ???

Wake up.

We only have so much money.

"YOU" are the problem.

I want your contract gone.

You complained ????? about personell ??"?? ...........and you have a huge contract ???

What have "you" done for us lately ?

(Complained......never giving a buck to anyone else)

Glad when your gone.

Paymah is close buddy, and he "never" complains.

He just beats his man.

2/3 of the Earth is covered with water........the rest is covered by Paymah.

Blah blah blah alright.......

[BCJ]

At 26, Robertson will be playing under his third head coach, fourth defensive coordinator and third scheme. But he doesn't see that as a negative.

"I can take that and what I learned before and apply it to now," he said.

I am glad he has this attitude because we turn over our DCs like bbqing chicken.

[Bronco9798]

My problem is Champ.

Complains like a girl,

And yet,

Won't restructure. (we could afford alot if it weren't for your greed)

Biggest contract we have.

Spends all his time drunk at Hooters on S Parker Rd with his brother.


Put your money where your mouth is Champ.

You want players, ???

Wake up.

We only have so much money.

"YOU" are the problem.

I want your contract gone.

You complained ????? about personell ??"?? ...........and you have a huge contract ???

What have "you" done for us lately ?

(Complained......never giving a buck to anyone else)

Glad when your gone.

Paymah is close buddy, and he "never" complains.

He just beats his man.

2/3 of the Earth is covered with water........the rest is covered by Paymah.

And Champ is the best open field tackler in the NFL, period. He has saved many long gains with his tackling ability. Champ can cover, tackle, and make big plays. We won't discuss when he gets beat and falls down to make it look like he slipped though. :D

[frauschieze]

Hi Niner!

[Bronco9798]

Hey there Cheesy!!

[broncohead]

I said he was good no doubt. When he left here he trash talked the franchise and the city..

Perhaps that doe not offend you but it does me.

I'd rather have a lesser talent that appreciates what he is given than aloud mouth punks that thinks he is owed more..

Most of our RB if given a decent block can perform almost like he could.. Perhaps we are on the way to giving young back a chance to shine..

your correct tater was a waste of a DAFT choice, as was calrette.. UDFAs cost us nothing and if they can get us 1200 a year they are worth every cent they make..

MY comment was if you like poorti$$$ so much perhaps it is time for you to become skins fan..

So you can't like other players on other teams? Thats a pretty lame comment!

[broncohead]

So getting back to topic, I like this pickup because it won't hurt us at all. If we end up giving up a 2nd rd. pick then that pretty much means that Robertson did well, if he doesn't do good we give up next to nothing.

[Inkana7]

Hey, we play the Jets this year. Awesome.

[Acedude]

__________________________________________________ ________________________________

Lelie was a panzy, period, end of story.

I didn't like the guy from day 1.

Ask Scribe,

My record speaks.

Where is he now ????

No where.

Coach says...."All you have to do is beat out a 34 year old wide receiver named Rod Smith to be number one"

What did Rod Smith say ?

Your gonna have to drag me off this field before I quit.

Guess who ended up winning the number 1 slot,

Rod Smith did not have the speed, nor the heigth.

All he had was heart.

Lelie ? .............. All "you" had to do was beat a 34 year old "non-drafted" wide receiver.

Guess you got schooled,

This "is" Broncos Country son.

If you want it......"earn it"....we hand nothing....to no one.

Lelie led the NFL in YPC at something like 23.6 YPC, you love to have a guy like that on your team, it opens up so much on O. Shanahan was very disappointed Lelie wasn't back on the team.

[Bronco9798]

Lelie led the NFL in YPC at something like 23.6 YPC, you love to have a guy like that on your team, it opens up so much on O. Shanahan was very disappointed Lelie wasn't back on the team.

****edit****.

Wow, this is getting good.

[Acedude]

Hate to break up the curcle jerk on the "failings" of the front office, but with Thomas, Robinson and Powell, it sounds to me like they have three fourths of a pretty fair Dline shaping up. I wonder who will be the fourth DT? Mallard? Or am I missing some one?

Which area will the drama queens stew about next?

Antwon Burton might be available. I always liked the mean streak that kid had. I saw he precipitated a big fight in the Ravens camp last week.

[Acedude]

Wow, this is getting good.

Nice edit, eh?

[Acedude]

Yes he was great speedster.. but his YAC was about the worst for receivers in DEN.. A one trick pony make a circus catch and got out of bounds, fall to the ground or was in the end zone..

There were very few catch and runs for TD's, He was a long strider and while he had good 40 times getting up toe speed was not his strongest suit.. He did not have the toughness it took to get cleanly off the LOS and frankly as we all know our OLINE was not designed for "forever" pass protection.. He just took to long to get open to make the throws he was best at catching.

As I said in my last post he was double DUMB for leaving when he did.. And considering he has flopped big time in his last two teams I have to wonder about his actual desire..

I had not heard that jaywalk and ashley had talked I knew they had the same agent.. But it would not surprise me that ashley was dumb enough to listen to "Mr. I don't think I'm compatible with the Broncos"..

Yah, it was double-dumb for Lelie to not even show up for camp. Shanahan had a bigtime plan for that guy. Jesus, the kid led the League in YPC with Jake Plummer underthrowing him. Shanny had that guy in one-on-one coverage 6-8 times a game, and Shanny could have done that for year after year. Nobody but Shanny can do that. Maybe one other coach in the League. Martz. Jeez that Lelie was double-dumb. Javon did work out with Lelie in Las Vegas that year prior to TC from what I heard.

[ApaOps5]

So getting back to topic, I like this pickup because it won't hurt us at all. If we end up giving up a 2nd rd. pick then that pretty much means that Robertson did well, if he doesn't do good we give up next to nothing.

Sounds like he would have failed his physical for most teams coming out of college. So I am not that worried about his knee condition. Still with our DLine luck it will become a nagging injury out of training camp. But then it didn't cost us anything at all anyways. With the rotation it shouldn't cost us much anyways.

[Acedude]

Hey, we play the Jets this year. Awesome.

Yah, I'm looking forward to that. It would be good to put a whopping on the Jets at their house,

[TXBRONC]

So getting back to topic, I like this pickup because it won't hurt us at all. If we end up giving up a 2nd rd. pick then that pretty much means that Robertson did well, if he doesn't do good we give up next to nothing.

If he doesn't play 65% of the snaps I don't think that necessarily means Robertons didn't play well. Denver over the past few years has rotated it's defensive line very heavily.

[Lonestar]

If he doesn't play 65% of the snaps I don't think that necessarily means Robertons didn't play well. Denver over the past few years has rotated it's defensive line very heavily.

Personally I'd be surprised if he played much more than 50% of the time if Powell can contribute . Considering we drafted Thomas last year and have another warm body or so to rotate in and out. With the high altitude and knee issues I'd guess there will be a lot of rotation going on to keep everyone fresh and prolong careers..

[rcsodak]

Why do you, and some others I have read on forums like to rag on Portis. He played well for Denver and was an up and coming young RB in the NFL. It's not like Portis was not going to get paid to play RB. Whether it the Denver Broncos or another NFL team, someone was going to pay him to play running back. He was 22 years old when he left the team. I haven't seen a RB nowhere as good as Portis walk through Dove Valley since he has left.

Why? Simple. Because he hailed himself to be the BEST rb, ala the 'belt', and went public about 'getting paid'. You don't do that in denver and very few other venues.

He SHOULD have modeled himself after TD! How many times did TD redo his contract for the team? Did he EVER go public and bemoan his pay? Did he EVER make an ass of himself on the sidelines, on national TV?

Poorti$$$ got what he deserved, imho. He's sucked ever since he left, and I laugh every time he goes out with a boo-boo.

Why, you ask?

:rolleyes:

[Lonestar]

Why? Simple. Because he hailed himself to be the BEST rb, ala the 'belt', and went public about 'getting paid'. You don't do that in denver and very few other venues.

He SHOULD have modeled himself after TD! How many times did TD redo his contract for the team? Did he EVER go public and bemoan his pay? Did he EVER make an ass of himself on the sidelines, on national TV?

Poorti$$$ got what he deserved, imho. He's sucked ever since he left, and I laugh every time he goes out with a boo-boo.

Why, you ask?

:rolleyes:


thanks RC I had forgotten about the stupid belt thing.. what a moron..

glad the clown is gone..

[rcsodak]

You can whine about champ all you want, but he earns his money and makes up a lot for the lack of talent on the D-line. He'll be in the Hall of Fame, and deservedly so. Paymah is close? Give me a break. I think you've been playing too much Madden.

Ummm....I don't think it's Madden he's "been playing too much" with....:beer:

[Lonestar]

Ummm....I don't think it's Madden he's "been playing too much" with....:beer:


edited for correction
I don't think it's Madden he's "been playing with it too much" ...

[broncohead]

If he doesn't play 65% of the snaps I don't think that necessarily means Robertons didn't play well. Denver over the past few years has rotated it's defensive line very heavily.

I didn't mean to make it sound like he won't be any good if he doesnt play over 65%. We can only win from this situation IMO.

[BCJ]

My problem is Champ.

Complains like a girl,

And yet,

Won't restructure. (we could afford alot if it weren't for your greed)

Biggest contract we have.

Spends all his time drunk at Hooters on S Parker Rd with his brother.


Put your money where your mouth is Champ.

You want players, ???

Wake up.

We only have so much money.

"YOU" are the problem.

I want your contract gone.

You complained ????? about personell ??"?? ...........and you have a huge contract ???

What have "you" done for us lately ?

(Complained......never giving a buck to anyone else)

Glad when your gone.

Paymah is close buddy, and he "never" complains.

He just beats his man.

2/3 of the Earth is covered with water........the rest is covered by Paymah.


We have one of these at the mane. Is this wolf or tellurides' brother? I am sure u have fun with this guy.

[TXBRONC]

I didn't mean to make it sound like he won't be any good if he doesnt play over 65%. We can only win from this situation IMO.

Thanks for clearing that up BH. Anyway if Robertson is on the field for about 60% I think we'll be alright.

[Cugel]

Since this has become a Lelie mis-information thread, I might as well straighten this out.

Lelie was the #2 WR and a disappointment at that for many reasons. When it looked like Rod Smith wasn't going to be able to continue after the 2005 season, the Broncos went out and traded for Javon Walker to be the new #1 WR. Lelie was supposed to stay at #2 until Rod could come back and then move to #3. He would then move back up into the #2 WR spot when Rod retired (expected to be perhaps in 2007).

He totally refused to accept this. He said he "wanted the chance to compete" to be the #2.

Well, he never got it. He was immediately slotted in as the #3 WR on a 1 year rental contract, and failed miserablywith the Falcons, the running-est team in the NFL, a team with Michael Vick as QB. The only person Vick ever wanted to throw to was TE Algie Crumpler. If Crumpler was covered, Vick would take off and run.

Lelie played in 15 games, starting 10 and caught 28 passes, down from his disappointing 42 his last year as a Bronco. Then he was cut by the lowly Falcons and picked up by the equally lowly S.F. 49ers.

In 2007 his slide continued. He started 3 games and had 10 catches as the #3 WR.

This was simply an EGO thing for Ashley. He ended up accepting from Atlanta and S.F. exactly what he complained bitterly that he would never accept from Denver -- being slotted into the #3 WR spot without any real chance to compete for #2. :coffee:

If he'd stayed on the Broncos, they would never have signed Keary Colbert or Darrell Jackson. With the departure of Javon Walker, he'd be fighting for the #2 spot with Eddie Royal this season.

I had the feeling when he left that he was shooting himself in the foot, and it turned out that was true.

[Cugel]

To get back on the thread topic, Robertson was a calculated risk.

BUT any fan who criticizes the front office for signing him doesn't know anything. It was a desperation move. Who else could the Broncos have signed to become a starting DT in 2008? True, they could have signed a DT in the 2nd round instead of Eddie Royal, but that player would have been a rookie this year. He would have had the same kind of season Marcus Thomas had last year -- struggling.

So, instead the Broncos drafted a developmental DT in the 5th round and traded for Robertson. His knees should hold up for 2 seasons at least, now that he's in a 4-3 defense where he won't have to read & react.

His greatest attribute was speed and aggressive moves. That's why he was the #4 pick of the draft. Using him as a space-eating DT in a 3-4 defense to stack up blockers is a total waste of his talents and also wears his body down. That's why the Jets didn't want to pay him $11 million. But, he's played all but 3 games his entire career, so durability isn't an issue right now.

As he says, he got injured in 2001 in college and has played on the knee for 7 years since then. If he can stand it, then why should anyone question his dedication? His talent has never been in question. He had 67 tackles last year -- that's a LOT for a DT.

If the Broncos use him in rotation he should last the season in relatively good shape. If healthy, there's no reason why he can't be a HUGE asset to the DL.

With Thomas and Robertson at the DTs and Dumervil and Ekuban starting at the DEs the Broncos have a decent starting DL. Their backups aren't great at DT with Alvin McKinley and God-knows-who as backups, but Moss and Crowder should prove decent in the DE rotation. For once there's not a total shortage of talent on the DL and they're not hoping against hope that Courtney Brown will miraculously become healthy and Gerrard Warren will somehow overcome his inertia and play hard. :coffee:

It should be markedly improved over 2007.

[Lonestar]

Since this has become a Lelie mis-information thread, I might as well straighten this out.

Lelie was the #2 WR and a disappointment at that for many reasons. When it looked like Rod Smith wasn't going to be able to continue after the 2005 season, the Broncos went out and traded for Javon Walker to be the new #1 WR. Lelie was supposed to stay at #2 until Rod could come back and then move to #3. He would then move back up into the #2 WR spot when Rod retired (expected to be perhaps in 2007).

He totally refused to accept this. He said he "wanted the chance to compete" to be the #2.

Well, he never got it. He was immediately slotted in as the #3 WR on a 1 year rental contract, and failed miserablywith the Falcons, the running-est team in the NFL, a team with Michael Vick as QB. The only person Vick ever wanted to throw to was TE Algie Crumpler. If Crumpler was covered, Vick would take off and run.

Lelie played in 15 games, starting 10 and caught 28 passes, down from his disappointing 42 his last year as a Bronco. Then he was cut by the lowly Falcons and picked up by the equally lowly S.F. 49ers.

In 2007 his slide continued. He started 3 games and had 10 catches as the #3 WR.

This was simply an EGO thing for Ashley. He ended up accepting from Atlanta and S.F. exactly what he complained bitterly that he would never accept from Denver -- being slotted into the #3 WR spot without any real chance to compete for #2. :coffee:

If he'd stayed on the Broncos, they would never have signed Keary Colbert or Darrell Jackson. With the departure of Javon Walker, he'd be fighting for the #2 spot with Eddie Royal this season.

I had the feeling when he left that he was shooting himself in the foot, and it turned out that was true.


I think you have this somewhat reversed IIRC ashley was gone before we acquired Walker..

It was ashley that wanted to be #1 thinking he was better than Rod, walker was picked up to cover the vacancy that was apparent with Ashley's departure..

But then I could be wrong on the timing of everything..

[Cugel]

I think you have this somewhat reversed IIRC ashley was gone before we acquired Walker..

It was ashley that wanted to be #1 thinking he was better than Rod, walker was picked up to cover the vacancy that was apparent with Ashley's departure..

But then I could be wrong on the timing of everything..

Actually, you are wrong. Javon Walker was traded during the off-season between the 2005 and 2006 season. Ashley Lelie heard the trade rumors and was terribly insulted that the Broncos were bringing in another WR to start over him, especially since the implication from that move was that the Broncos had made a mistake in drafting Lelie instead of Walker (who went to the Packers with the next pick).

He wanted the chance to be the #1 WR when Rod Smith retired and knew that Javon was going to be the #1 and he would be forced to compete with Rod for the #2 WR spot.

Since there was no way he was going to win that battle, that meant he was going to wind up as the #3.

Everybody tried to talk him into staying, pointing out that if he was just patient, Rod would retire in a couple of years at most and Lelie would inherit the #2 spot. Meanwhile he could set out trying to prove to the coaches that he deserved to be the #1 WR.

Instead he threw a temper tantrum and went to the press forcing a trade.

But, when he negotiated with the Falcons, their coach immediately issued a press-statement that Lelie would be the #3 WR, and that he (Jim Mora) had made it clear to Lelie that there would be no b@tching about his place on the depth chart. Lelie meekly took this and played 1 season for the Falcons, catching 28 passes before he was cut and signed by the 49ers -- to be THEIR #3 backup WR. Last year he caught 15 more passes and started 3 games.

Making a move isn't always the smartest thing a player can do. Lelie should have stayed in Denver. :coffee:

EDIT: There was a typo stating that Lelie caught 15 passes for the 49ers. He caught 10. :coffee:

[BCJ]

I think you have this somewhat reversed IIRC ashley was gone before we acquired Walker..

It was ashley that wanted to be #1 thinking he was better than Rod, walker was picked up to cover the vacancy that was apparent with Ashley's departure..

But then I could be wrong on the timing of everything..

You are correct but so is cugel. Many have rehashed the Lelie stuidicy as his agent also. Ashley thought he was more but basically got the same. Ashley thought he was a #1 but excepted #2 as he was at least on the field. Ashley had the chance to make a positive name for himself staying in Denver. Look at guys like Sewell, Little, Elway, Mecklenberg and even Diaz Infantante. Guys that scored points while playing in Denver and now reap the rewards of being hired by the Broncos, leaving a legacy and/or getting paid in retirement for events, commercials, etc. for being a great guy. Lelie will always miss that with the Broncos and their fan base in Colorado. You really think there is a jersey in Atlanta or San Francisco with his name on the back? He blew it badly and will be happy to be invited to Hawaii Alumni Day because it probably wont happen in Denver, Atlanta and possibly San Fran. Geez, i did what i typed i wouldnt and that was rehash this.....SORRY!

[TXBRONC]

Personally I'd be surprised if he played much more than 50% of the time if Powell can contribute . Considering we drafted Thomas last year and have another warm body or so to rotate in and out. With the high altitude and knee issues I'd guess there will be a lot of rotation going on to keep everyone fresh and prolong careers..

I expect that they will want to be on the field more than half the snaps. But at this time I don't expect to be 65% or more.

[Cugel]

I expect that they will want to be on the field more than half the snaps. But at this time I don't expect to be 65% or more.

You're probably right in that Dumervil was the only Broncos DL who had more than 70% of the snaps last year, and that was due to injury.

There's certainly a chance that Robertson will be on the field that much due to injury or just because his backups suck. Other than McKinley they are worse than mediocre after all (Josh Mallard? Kenny Peterson? Not exactly 1st round talent there.

It's pretty rare to find decent DTs on the discard pile as undrafted FAs. Shanahan has tried that for years now without noticeable success. :coffee:

Other positions, yes. DT, no. It's the "Planet Theory" of Bill Parcells: guys big and athletic enough to play DT in the NFL are hard to miss. There are only so many guys available in any year's draft, so the supply never equals the demand. As a result DT is the most highly top-heavy draft position other than QB or OT. Nearly 40% of all DTs in the NFL were drafted in the first round.

The blue bar is drafted in that round, the red bar is becomes a starter with that team (from Football Outsiders):

http://www.footballoutsiders.com/images/MurrayDraft/MurrayDT.gif

Percentage with the team that drafted them: 42%
Percentage of Undrafted Free Agents (or 8+): 19%

[G_Money]

Yep. The problem is DT is also one of the worst positions to draft in the first 2 rounds because of the exceedingly high "bust" rate of the position.

So if you're gonna get a good one, you need to draft him early, but a lot of the guys drafted early turn into nothing.

Shanny's trying to get around that problem by a) drafting a 1st round DT in the 4th due to stupidity issues (thanks Marcus! Now produce and stay clean...) and b) trading for somebody else's 1st round pick who doesn't fit their scheme (no crime in being a 4-3 DT in a 3-4 scheme).

It could work, too. And we kind of need it to, so it better...

But the think I've always liked about Robertson is that he actually wants to play football. He's not looking to go into politics or become a doctor or go back to the beach with his friends and chill with his millions. He wants to play, and he wants to win.

Hopefully he can do both very well here for us.

~G

[TXBRONC]

You're probably right in that Dumervil was the only Broncos DL who had more than 70% of the snaps last year, and that was due to injury.

There's certainly a chance that Robertson will be on the field that much due to injury or just because his backups suck. Other than McKinley they are worse than mediocre after all (Josh Mallard? Kenny Peterson? Not exactly 1st round talent there.

It's pretty rare to find decent DTs on the discard pile as undrafted FAs. Shanahan has tried that for years now without noticeable success. :coffee:

Other positions, yes. DT, no. It's the "Planet Theory" of Bill Parcells: guys big and athletic enough to play DT in the NFL are hard to miss. There are only so many guys available in any year's draft, so the supply never equals the demand. As a result DT is the most highly top-heavy draft position other than QB or OT. Nearly 40% of all DTs in the NFL were drafted in the first round.

The blue bar is drafted in that round, the red bar is becomes a starter with that team (from Football Outsiders):

http://www.footballoutsiders.com/images/MurrayDraft/MurrayDT.gif

Percentage with the team that drafted them: 42%
Percentage of Undrafted Free Agents (or 8+): 19%

I'm not saying there is no chance that Robertson could end up on the field 65% of the time. What I am saying is that I have feeling that if Denver can keep avoid I think they will.

I think both McKinley and Peterson are decent back ups. They aren't great and you wouldn't want them starting a lot games but the way it has looked to me is they are solid depth players. Also we have no idea how Powell will pan out. If he develops into a solid run stuffer that works for me.

[Inkana7]

McKinley is actually a pretty decent player. Not a guy you want starting for you, but a good rotational run stuffer. If you remember, when we first signed him, we all pegged him as a run stuffer and cried because we wanted a pass rusher.

[TXBRONC]

McKinley is actually a pretty decent player. Not a guy you want starting for you, but a good rotational run stuffer. If you remember, when we first signed him, we all pegged him as a run stuffer and cried because we wanted a pass rusher.

I agree McKinley is a decent player to keep around. I do also if had to start we would be ok as long as it wasn't for an extended period time.

[Ziggy]

Steven Harris is a guy that can play some solid minutes also. He's a bit undersized, but showed a lot of promise last season. McKinley, Powell, Harris, Peterson for backups. That's by no means a logjam of talent. Don't be surprised if Denver signs a player or 2 off of another teams cut list during the preseason. There are a few teams out there that are deep at DT, and will need to cut a decent player to get down to 45. Another possibly is trading a late round pick for another team's extra, like we did last season with Jimmy Kennedy.

[Lonestar]

Steven Harris is a guy that can play some solid minutes also. He's a bit undersized, but showed a lot of promise last season. McKinley, Powell, Harris, Peterson for backups. That's by no means a logjam of talent. Don't be surprised if Denver signs a player or 2 off of another teams cut list during the preseason. There are a few teams out there that are deep at DT, and will need to cut a decent player to get down to 45. Another possibly is trading a late round pick for another team's extra, like we did last season with Jimmy Kennedy.

there may be some 01JUN cuts coming up also. Although many of them are getting cut early and the team taking the exemption on 01JUN..

Which frankly makes it easier for the players and other teams to pick up talent before the draft..