McDaniels says Tim Tebow may play sooner than

[Lonestar]

Broncos coach Josh McDaniels says Tim Tebow may play sooner than expected

Think the Broncos are going to let Tim Tebow two or three years to get up to speed before seeing the field as an NFL quarterback?

Maybe not.

Broncos coach Josh McDaniels said this week that he's so impressed by Tebow's intelligence and comprehension of the playbook that he might be tempted to play him earlier than expected.

He told the Denver Post:

"To me, (Tebow's acumen) gives him an advantage, an opportunity to play earlier than other people have played. Everybody keeps talking about it will be two, three years before he can play, and I think they don't know this guy. His mental capacity, and the way that he works, and the fact that he's on such a fast pace, will give him the chance to compete apples-to-apples.

"It's all going to be about his production and performance. There are a lot of rookies who can't run plays because they can't figure it out yet. That's not going to be the case with Tim. He'll be able to do the things (veterans) do."

McDaniels has already named Kyle Orton the Broncos starter. And they also imported former first-round pick Brady Quinn from Cleveland this offseason. So Tebow won't have an easy path to the field.

But the Broncos coach said he sees a competitive fire in Tebow that's not apparent in other players:

"That confidence affects everybody. We could see it last week at rookie camp. There were a bunch of rookies out there with no confidence, except him. He's got such confidence that he will just not let himself fail.

"And that quality sometimes is very underrated. There are people with a great deal of God-given ability who are fun to watch, and it's really interesting to see what kind of seasons they'll put together. Then there are guys who will say they won't fail, our team's not going to fail, and they have a 'I'm not going to let you down' attitude. And that's what you notice with Tim."
http://www.usatoday.com/communities/thehuddle/post/2010/05/broncos-coach-josh-mcdaniels-says-tim-tebow-may-play-sooner-than-expected/1?csp=outbrain&csp=obnetwork

[GGMoogly]

Take it to the BANK!!! :2thumbs:

[broncofaninfla]

Last year I got the feeling Josh was feeding the ball to Moreno too often in the hopes kid would get better with each carry. Didn't happen that way, instead the kid got worse and wore down as the season progressed. I hope we don't see the same mistake with Tebow. If he is ready, fine, then play him but if he isn't, coach him until he is. There is no better expereince than reps on the field but doing it too soon with a QB can be detremental to thier development.

[gator_fan]

Take it to the BANK!!! :2thumbs:

How much exactly, is not so sure, but Tebow will be used, because Tebow will be useful. That you can definitely take to the bank, and you can even forgo the FDIC insurance.

[camdisco24]

I love Tebow, but I dont want to rush him into the starting job before he's truly ready. That would be a critical mistake that McD and staff should be careful to aviod. I know Tebow can be a starter eventually, but I'd rather wait a year and have him come out strong. That being said, I trust McD's coaching ability and if he thinks Tebow can start this season and do well... I'll support it.

[Dirk]

I agree. I think that McD will be able to assess if Tebow is ready/better than Orton.

I also would like to see him sit a year and learn. But if he comes out and plays better than Orton...then I support it 100%.

[LordTrychon]

I agree. I think that McD will be able to assess if Tebow is ready/better than Orton.

I also would like to see him sit a year and learn. But if he comes out and plays better than Orton...then I support it 100%.

As long as it's not blind man-crushing.

I'm ok with the best man for the job starting.

[TXBRONC]

Last year I got the feeling Josh was feeding the ball to Moreno too often in the hopes kid would get better with each carry. Didn't happen that way, instead the kid got worse and wore down as the season progressed. I hope we don't see the same mistake with Tebow. If he is ready, fine, then play him but if he isn't, coach him until he is. There is no better expereince than reps on the field but doing it too soon with a QB can be detremental to thier development.

Moreno bares some of the blame but I don't think he's completely at fault. Some of the issue was the line, but I also think part of responsibility belongs to Orton and his short coming of not being able to throw down field. Defenses were stacking box. Anyone can say straight line blocking is all about desire but if a defense can put more defenders in the box than you have blockers more times than not the offense loses that battle. As I've been to say otherwise is throw shit at wall and hope sticks.

That being said, if the running game is stronger this year and if Tebow is ready to go it possible he could start.

[T.K.O.]

while this is a glowing report....it is comprised of many "sound bytes" from seperate interviews .
the part about him starting sooner rather than later came as a response to the many questions about tebow's "nfl readiness" prior to and shortly after his first practice's with the team.
rather than some sudden realization by mcD that tebow will outplay the other qb's.
i am glad that mcD has backed off of his "orton is our starter" stance.and it will be fun fun fun to watch how it all unfolds through tc and preseason.

[TXBRONC]

I love Tebow, but I dont want to rush him into the starting job before he's truly ready. That would be a critical mistake that McD and staff should be careful to aviod. I know Tebow can be a starter eventually, but I'd rather wait a year and have him come out strong. That being said, I trust McD's coaching ability and if he thinks Tebow can start this season and do well... I'll support it.

I agree with you but at the same even if Tebow truly ready still doesn't mean that he wouldn't struggle.

[BroncoJoe]

I agree with you but at the same even if Tebow truly ready still doesn't mean that he wouldn't struggle.

a la another highly touted QB from a few years back...

[TXBRONC]

a la another highly touted QB from a few years back...

It also helps to have a decent defense which we didn't have a few years back.

[topscribe]

Moreno bares some of the blame but I don't think he's completely at fault. Some of the issue was the line, but I also think part of responsibility belongs to Orton and his short coming of not being able to throw down field. Defenses were stacking box. Anyone can say straight line blocking is all about desire but if a defense can put more defenders in the box than you have blockers more times than not the offense loses that battle. As I've been to say otherwise is throw shit at wall and hope sticks.

That being said, if the running game is stronger this year and if Tebow is ready to go it possible he could start.

Not true. From the analyses I have read, and the comments from McDaniels and
Orton themselves, defenses were largely ignoring the box and playing safeties
back. It got to where they did not respect the run and played to stop the pass.

Orton did throw downfield, and impressively at times. In the final KC game, for
instance, he threw two 50+ yard passes to Gaffney, that were highly
contested, completing one and drawing defensive interference on the other
(which was on the money). His final pass in the Oakland game was a 30-yard
frozen rope down the middle to Scheffler. Those are not the only instances;
there are others.

To keep insisting that Orton cannot throw down the field is perpetuating a
myth. A pretty good article regarding myths about Orton can be found on
Mile High Report (http://www.milehighreport.com/2010/5/16/1473968/a-second-helping-of-carpe-diem#storyjump). In addition, another analyzing Orton's deep throws is in the
works and will be posted soon . . .

-----

[BroncoWave]

Moreno bares some of the blame but I don't think he's completely at fault. Some of the issue was the line, but I also think part of responsibility belongs to Orton and his short coming of not being able to throw down field. Defenses were stacking box. Anyone can say straight line blocking is all about desire but if a defense can put more defenders in the box than you have blockers more times than not the offense loses that battle. As I've been to say otherwise is throw shit at wall and hope sticks.

That being said, if the running game is stronger this year and if Tebow is ready to go it possible he could start.

Agreed. Having a noodle-arm QB like Orton definitely isn't the best way to help your running game.

[TXBRONC]

Not true. From the analyses I have read, and the comments from McDaniels and
Orton themselves, defenses were largely ignoring the box and playing safeties
back. It got to where they did not respect the run and played to stop the pass.

Orton did throw downfield, and impressively at times. In the final KC game, for
instance, he threw two 50+ yard passes to Gaffney, that were highly
contested, completing one and drawing defensive interference on the other
(which was on the money). His final pass in the Oakland game was a 30-yard
frozen rope down the middle to Scheffler. Those are not the only instances;
there are others.

To keep insisting that Orton cannot throw down the field is perpetuating a
myth. A pretty good article regarding myths about Orton can be found on
Mile High Report (http://www.milehighreport.com/2010/5/16/1473968/a-second-helping-of-carpe-diem#storyjump). In addition, another analyzing Orton's deep throws is in the
works and will be posted soon . . .

-----

The coach has said alot things that are not neccesarily accurate. Because opposing defenses did play eight in the box.

You misunderstand. I'm not talking about his arm strength, I'm talking about what he's comfortable with and what is good at. Two games out 16 is no BFD.

[topscribe]

The coach has said alot things that are not neccesarily accurate. Because opposing defenses did play eight in the box.

You misunderstand. I'm not talking about his arm strength, I'm talking about what he's comfortable with and what is good at. Two games out 16 is no BFD.

Now, that is silly . . .

If the coach is not a good enough coach to see whether or not safeties are
playing back, then he should not be coaching at any level, let alone in the NFL.
Notice I said both the coach and the quarterback mentioned that. Notice I also
said I read a couple analyses about that. Notice I said those were not the
only instances, that there were others. BTW, I'll bet you ignored the MHR
article, too.

But I guess there are some fans here who are sure they still know better . . .

-----

[TXBRONC]

Now, that is silly . . .

If the coach is not a good enough coach to see whether or not safeties are
playing back, then he should not be coaching at any level, let alone in the NFL.
Notice I said both the coach and the quarterback mentioned that. Notice I also
said I read a couple analyses about that. But I guess there are some fans here
who are sure they still know better . . .

-----

Yep and he also said that Orton did a great job this yet he didn't give a contract extension and he went out draft a quarterback in the first round noless. McDaniels also said Orton is his starter period, but now he's saying Tim may start sooner than later. What is ever more is not realizing coaches don't always tell the truth.

Sense this thread about Tebow and not Orton lets get back on Ok? :coffee:

[topscribe]

Yep and he also said that Orton did a great job this yet he didn't give a contract extension and he went out draft a quarterback in the first round noless.

Sense this thread about Tebow and not Orton lets get back on Ok? :coffee:

What does that have to do about whether the safeties were playing back? If
the coach said the safeties were playing back, what does that have to do
with his general comments about the roster at the conclusion of the season?
You're not making any sense.

And you are still ignoring everything else in my post, except for what
McDaniels said.

And I responded to what you said about Orton.

-----

[Denver Native (Carol)]

Yep and he also said that Orton did a great job this yet he didn't give a contract extension and he went out draft a quarterback in the first round noless. McDaniels also said Orton is his starter period, but now he's saying Tim may start sooner than later. What is ever more is not realizing coaches don't always tell the truth.

Sense this thread about Tebow and not Orton lets get back on Ok? :coffee:

I don't think that by Coach McD stating that Orton is his starter = Coach McD not stating the truth. Orton was the starter last year, and right now, he is the starter. However, after training camp and preseason, that could change. Also, by saying that Tebow could play sooner than later, that does not indicate that he will BE the starter - it could indicate that he will play in certain situations.

[BroncoWave]

What does that have to do about whether the safeties were playing back? If
the coach said the safeties were playing back, what does that have to do
with his general comments about the roster at the conclusion of the season?
You're not making any sense.

He makes perfect sense actually. His point is that just because McDaniels says something to the media doesn't necessarily mean it's accurate. Newsflash: all coaches lie to the media, and they do it quite often. Maybe McDaniels made those statements about safetys playing back to protect Orton and take some pressure off of him.

[topscribe]

He makes perfect sense actually. His point is that just because McDaniels says something to the media doesn't necessarily mean it's accurate. Newsflash: all coaches lie to the media, and they do it quite often. Maybe McDaniels made those statements about safetys playing back to protect Orton and take some pressure off of him.

Once again, totally ignoring the other accounts. I mentioned not only McDaniels,
but Orton and analyses that were written about it. I also alluded to an MHR
article that touched upon the issue as to whether Orton can and will throw
downfield. Did either of you bother to click on it?

Anyway, I guess you both have zeroed in on what McDaniels said, as if you
believe you can prove something by that . ..

-----

[T.K.O.]

I don't think that by Coach McD stating that Orton is his starter = Coach McD not stating the truth. Orton was the starter last year, and right now, he is the starter. However, after training camp and preseason, that could change. Also, by saying that Tebow could play sooner than later, that does not indicate that he will BE the starter - it could indicate that he will play in certain situations.

as is the case with many teams.
the coaches job is to evaluate the players and put the best guys on the field.
if he were to come out and say that orton,tebow,quinn or brandstater is going to be our starter next season.......he would be bashed for not having an open competition (and rightfully so).
the fact is orton IS our starter,but mcD has to be hoping one of the other qb's takes the job,any coach would love to see a better player take any spot.
that means the team improves and his choices via FA and the draft were good ones.

[topscribe]

I don't think that by Coach McD stating that Orton is his starter = Coach McD not stating the truth. Orton was the starter last year, and right now, he is the starter. However, after training camp and preseason, that could change. Also, by saying that Tebow could play sooner than later, that does not indicate that he will BE the starter - it could indicate that he will play in certain situations.

Now that is perfect sense. Pay attention, everyone . . .

-----

[TXBRONC]

I don't think that by Coach McD stating that Orton is his starter = Coach McD not stating the truth. Orton was the starter last year, and right now, he is the starter. However, after training camp and preseason, that could change.

Maybe you can't see it but there huge difference in saying Orton is the starter period and Tim could start sooner rather than later. There also a big difference in saying Orton did everything asked of him and but then not giving him a contract extension and drafting a quarterback in the first round. There is ringing endorsement in that Carol. Please don't take that as slap at McDaniels, all head coaches are not always completely straight with the media.

[TXBRONC]

He makes perfect sense actually. His point is that just because McDaniels says something to the media doesn't necessarily mean it's accurate. Newsflash: all coaches lie to the media, and they do it quite often. Maybe McDaniels made those statements about safetys playing back to protect Orton and take some pressure off of him.

Thank you. This is exactly what I'm saying.

There is also a huge difference in saying Orton is our starting quarterback period and Tebow could sooner rather than later.

[BroncoJoe]

McD saying Orton is the starter is not inaccurate. He is. As of right now.

[topscribe]

McD saying Orton is the starter is not inaccurate. He is. As of right now.

So then, McDaniels did not contradict himself . . .

-----

[TXBRONC]

as is the case with many teams.
the coaches job is to evaluate the players and put the best guys on the field.
if he were to come out and say that orton,tebow,quinn or brandstater is going to be our starter next season.......he would be bashed for not having an open competition (and rightfully so).
the fact is orton IS our starter,but mcD has to be hoping one of the other qb's takes the job,any coach would love to see a better player take any spot.
that means the team improves and his choices via FA and the draft were good ones.

He said not to long ago "Orton is the starter period." There no wiggle room in that statement in that statement for saying that there is open competition.

[TXBRONC]

McD saying Orton is the starter is not inaccurate. He is. As of right now.

He said at one point "Orton is the starter period." That statement doesn't sound like there is any wiggle room for having competition. Now he's saying "Tim could start sooner rather than later." I'm not kicking dirt in McDaniels face because all head coaches do that. They will also saying things to media to protect their players.

[T.K.O.]

He said at one point "Orton is the starter period." That statement doesn't sound like there is any wiggle room for having competition. Now he's saying "Tim could start sooner rather than later." I'm not kicking dirt in McDaniels face because all head coaches do that. They will also saying things to media to protect their players.

context,time and link would be appreciated

[Denver Native (Carol)]

He said at one point "Orton is the starter period." That statement doesn't sound like there is any wiggle room for having competition. Now he's saying "Tim could start sooner rather than later." I'm not kicking dirt in McDaniels face because all head coaches do that. They will also saying things to media to protect their players.

At the time that Coach McD said that Orton is the starter" - he is the starter, UNTIL/UNLESS someone takes that away from him. I just reread the article again. No where is there any mention that Tebow will be the starter - the article states that Tebow may PLAY sooner than expected. Where does that indicate that Coach McD, AT THIS TIME, has said that Tebow will be the starter? Many of the tv sports people here have said that Tebow could see playing time this year on 3rd down, etc.

[T.K.O.]

i found this...which is close but not an absolute by any stretch.....
ENGLEWOOD, Colo. -- Kyle Orton remains the Denver Broncos' starting quarterback, and Brady Quinn will have to unseat him if he wants to be under center when the season starts in six months.

"He is our starter. There is no question," Broncos coach Josh McDaniels said of his incumbent quarterback Tuesday at the AFC coaches' breakfast in Orlando, Fla., reiterating what he has stated both privately and publicly since acquiring Quinn from the Cleveland Browns on March 13.

McDaniels said Orton deserves to keep his job based on his performance last season, when he threw for 3,802 yards and 21 touchdowns with 12 interceptions.


Vic Carucci writes.
More ...

» Fresh start could be what Quinn needs McDaniels also is making it clear that Orton will have to keep his starting job through performance and continued improvement in his second year in Denver's offense or Quinn, who went 3-9 as Cleveland's starter, could end up supplanting him.

[T.K.O.]

do we want a coach who would be so stubborn that he would rather start the wrong guy than change his mind anyway ?
custer was told to retreat before little big horn but his pride would'nt let him....how did that work out for him ?:laugh:

[TXBRONC]

At the time that Coach McD said that Orton is the starter" - he is the starter, UNTIL/UNLESS someone takes that away from him. I just reread the article again. No where is there any mention that Tebow will be the starter - the article states that Tebow may PLAY sooner than expected. Where does that indicate that Coach McD, AT THIS TIME, has said that Tebow will be the starter? Many of the tv sports people here have said that Tebow could see playing time this year on 3rd down, etc.

Somewhere between the end of the year and now the coach said "Orton is the starter period." That's an emphatic statement Carol. Now he's saying Tebow might start sooner rather than later.

How is sports people saying Tebow could see time on third down etc and the coach himself saying "Tim may start sooner rather later is different than he could play on third downs and etc.

Now Carol show me where I said Tim will be starter AT THIS TIME? I said no such thing. My point that you missed is that coach has said two different things. The coach is now leaving door to Tim starting very soon he didn't do that earlier.

[BroncoWave]

Once again, totally ignoring the other accounts. I mentioned not only McDaniels,
but Orton and analyses that were written about it. I also alluded to an MHR
article that touched upon the issue as to whether Orton can and will throw
downfield. Did either of you bother to click on it?

Anyway, I guess you both have zeroed in on what McDaniels said, as if you
believe you can prove something by that . ..

-----

I don't need to click the link. I know from watching him play that he has a shitty deep ball. Yeah, he gets it there every once in a while but he is FAR from a QB who scares people with the deep ball. Do you really think defensive coordinators go into games against us thinking "Oh shit, we better gameplan for that lethal deep ball from Orton"? I highly doubt it. Every QB hits on deep passes occasionally, and Orton did hit a few this year, but he's still an average QB at best in that regard.

[TXBRONC]

do we want a coach who would be so stubborn that he would rather start the wrong guy than change his mind anyway ?
custer was told to retreat before little big horn but his pride would'nt let him....how did that work out for him ?:laugh:

Where did you learn your history? Custer wasn't told to retreat he was told to wait. :lol:

http://www.eyewitnesstohistory.com/custer.htm

[topscribe]

I don't need to click the link. I know from watching him play that he has a shitty deep ball. Yeah, he gets it there every once in a while but he is FAR from a QB who scares people with the deep ball. Do you really think defensive coordinators go into games against us thinking "Oh shit, we better gameplan for that lethal deep ball from Orton"? I highly doubt it. Every QB hits on deep passes occasionally, and Orton did hit a few this year, but he's still an average QB at best in that regard.

You are lending far too much to what I said, as usual. If you want to go into
hyperbole, be my guest. I only reported what McDaniels and Orton stated, and
what I read in a couple analyses.

I do get a kick out of the use of the term "average." As if that is derogatory.
If Orton played "average" through two serious injuries, in a new system, with
a new coach and teammates, and an entirely different playbook, then I am
quite impressed with that.

However, that is not the point of the discussion. TX said they were stacking
the box. Well, sure, teams do stack the box at times . . . against anyone. But,
according to what McDaniels and Orton and certain analysts said, teams were
also playing safeties deep against the pass because of an increasingly effete
running game. That was my point . . . my only point . . .

-----

[T.K.O.]

Where did you learn your history? Custer wasn't told to retreat he was told to wait. :lol:

http://www.eyewitnesstohistory.com/custer.htm

makes my example even more relevent then....would'nt you say ?;)

[TXBRONC]

At the time that Coach McD said that Orton is the starter" - he is the starter, UNTIL/UNLESS someone takes that away from him. I just reread the article again. No where is there any mention that Tebow will be the starter - the article states that Tebow may PLAY sooner than expected. Where does that indicate that Coach McD, AT THIS TIME, has said that Tebow will be the starter? Many of the tv sports people here have said that Tebow could see playing time this year on 3rd down, etc.

Something I just noticed you took one sentence out of context. Let's look at the entire comment.


"To me, (Tebow's acumen) gives him an advantage, an opportunity to play earlier than other people have played. Everybody keeps talking about it will be two, three years before he can play, and I think they don't know this guy. His mental capacity, and the way that he works, and the fact that he's on such a fast pace, will give him the chance to compete apples-to-apples.

Bolded is the part you skipped past.

[TXBRONC]

makes my example even more relevent then....would'nt you say ?;)

No it means you're weren't accurate. :coffee:

[arapaho2]

Now, that is silly . . .

If the coach is not a good enough coach to see whether or not safeties are
playing back, then he should not be coaching at any level, let alone in the NFL.
. .

-----

winner winner chicken dinner!!!!

top your own savior orton at the end of the season suggested that he wanted to open it up downfield but mcd had other plans

every analyst in the game suggested the broncos need to open up the field deeper and utilized the center of the field more to keep the defense honest

the point is nearly to a tee on any sunday the talk and key to winning from the analysts was the same..the broncos need to open up the feild to prevent the defense from stacking the box...and other then the washington game..we didnt

whether it was ortons unwillingness to take a shot other then when he's desperat..or mcd reluctance to let orton open it up...it didnt happen enough

[topscribe]

Something I just noticed you took one sentence out of context. Let's look at the entire comment.



Bolded is the part you skipped past.

How does that contradict what Carol said?

-----

[arapaho2]

Where did you learn your history? Custer wasn't told to retreat he was told to wait. :lol:

http://www.eyewitnesstohistory.com/custer.htm


custer wore Arrow shirts;)

[topscribe]

winner winner chicken dinner!!!!

top your own savior orton at the end of the season suggested that he wanted to open it up downfield but mcd had other plans

every analyst in the game suggested the broncos need to open up the field deeper and utilized the center of the field more to keep the defense honest

the point is nearly to a tee on any sunday the talk and key to winning from the analysts was the same..the broncos need to open up the feild to prevent the defense from stacking the box...and other then the washington game..we didnt

whether it was ortons unwillingness to take a shot other then when he's desperat..or mcd reluctance to let orton open it up...it didnt happen enough

My Savior is Jesus Christ. And Jesus Christ only. Did we get that straight now?

I am only trying to establish some facts here. Some of your comment was
very good here . . . good enough that you could have done without the
allusion to me.

Anyway, I agree with those analysts who said the Broncos need t open up the
deep game more . . . something that both McDaniels and Orton said would
happen . . .
-----

[BroncoWave]

You are lending far too much to what I said, as usual. If you want to go into
hyperbole, be my guest. I only reported what McDaniels and Orton stated, and
what I read in a couple analyses.

I do get a kick out of the use of the term "average." As if that is derogatory.
If Orton played "average" through two serious injuries, in a new system, with
a new coach and teammates, and an entirely different playbook, then I am
quite impressed with that.

However, that is not the point of the discussion. TX said they were stacking
the box. Well, sure, teams do stack the box at times . . . against anyone. But,
according to what McDaniels and Orton and certain analysts said, teams were
also playing safeties deep against the pass because of an increasingly effete
running game. That was my point . . . my only point . . .

-----

So you agree that they were playing the safetys deep because of our ineffective running game, not because they were afraid of Orton's deep ball. Glad we have that cleared up! :beer:

And just to clarify, I said "average at best", which means on his best days I think he is average. Not that there's anything wrong with average, it's just that average play at that position doesn't win you championships, unless you have an all-time great defense.

[GEM]

Once again, totally ignoring the other accounts. I mentioned not only McDaniels,
but Orton and analyses that were written about it. I also alluded to an MHR
article that touched upon the issue as to whether Orton can and will throw
downfield. Did either of you bother to click on it?

Anyway, I guess you both have zeroed in on what McDaniels said, as if you
believe you can prove something by that . ..

-----

Analysis from McDaniels (it's been shown numerous times that he is not forthright with the media) and from Orton, do you really think Orton is going to come out and say that DC's stacked the box against him because of his weak arm and the inability to get the ball downfield on a semi regular basis? MHR is full of opinion pieces, just like you see here.

Whatever the reason, the opposing teams did stack the box and Orton did not throw downfield on a regular basis.

Why take it so personally whenever anyone brings Orton up in a negative light....and it's really not even negative. Some just don't agree that he does throw downfield or that he has this strong arm. There is nothing wrong with disagreeing....just don't take it so personally.

[dogfish]

the old "orton's arm" argument again?

really, fellas?


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[TXBRONC]

custer wore Arrow shirts;)

By the end of day he sure did.

[T.K.O.]

Somewhere between the end of the year and now the coach said "Orton is the starter period." That's an emphatic statement Carol. Now he's saying Tebow might start sooner rather than later.

How is sports people saying Tebow could see time on third down etc and the coach himself saying "Tim may start sooner rather later is different than he could play on third downs and etc.

Now Carol show me where I said Tim will be starter AT THIS TIME? I said no such thing. My point that you missed is that coach has said two different things. The coach is now leaving door to Tim starting very soon he didn't do that earlier.

before he knew his evil plan to trade picks and snag tebow would actually work ?
and i still have'nt seen an actual qoute where he say's "period" which would indicate it was a definate .even then it would have to be taken as the case at the time.
no coach is gonna say that no matter how poorly a player does in TC and preseason he has the job .and i doubt very much that is what was said.
he did say he "earned the chance to be the starter" and i agree.
i also believe he will be the starter.
however saying that tebow may play sooner than later.does not constitute an admission that tebow will be a week 1 starter.
so again it's all speculation and spin.
i do believe mcD will make the call that he feels gives us the best chance to win,why would'nt he?it's his job on the line not any reporters or fans:salute:

[Denver Native (Carol)]

Somewhere between the end of the year and now the coach said "Orton is the starter period." That's an emphatic statement Carol. Now he's saying Tebow might start sooner rather than later.

How is sports people saying Tebow could see time on third down etc and the coach himself saying "Tim may start sooner rather later is different than he could play on third downs and etc.

Now Carol show me where I said Tim will be starter AT THIS TIME? I said no such thing. My point that you missed is that coach has said two different things. The coach is now leaving door to Tim starting very soon he didn't do that earlier.

It is not an emphatic statement - When the season ended last year, Orton was the starter - until/unless he loses that status, he is the starter. Then a trade made for Quinn, and Tebow was drafted. Again, the article posted, which started this thread, does not state that Tebow might start sooner rather than later - it states Tebow may play sooner than later - at this time, how can you equate that to Coach McD absolutely indicating/stating that Tebow will be the starter, rather than Tebow may play sooner than later? If Tebow proves, after training camp, preseason, that he is superior to Orton and Quinn, he may very well end up the starter. Is that not what training camp/preseason is for? Some of the other players who finished the season as a starter in their position, may also lose that status.

[TXBRONC]

Analysis from McDaniels (it's been shown numerous times that he is not forthright with the media) and from Orton, do you really think Orton is going to come out and say that DC's stacked the box against him because of his weak arm and the inability to get the ball downfield on a semi regular basis? MHR is full of opinion pieces, just like you see here.

Whatever the reason, the opposing teams did stack the box and Orton did not throw downfield on a regular basis.

Why take it so personally whenever anyone brings Orton up in a negative light....and it's really not even negative. Some just don't agree that he does throw downfield or that he has this strong arm. There is nothing wrong with disagreeing....just don't take it so personally.

No coach completely forthright with media. It's not meant as criticism.

[TXBRONC]

the old "orton's arm" argument again?

really, fellas?


http://img72.imageshack.us/img72/2489/beatingadeadhorsegq2.gif (http://img72.imageshack.us/i/beatingadeadhorsegq2.gif/)

Uploaded with ImageShack.us (http://imageshack.us)

That's not where I was headed with it.

[TXBRONC]

It is not an emphatic statement - When the season ended last year, Orton was the starter - until/unless he loses that status, he is the starter. Then a trade made for Quinn, and Tebow was drafted. Again, the article posted, which started this thread, does not state that Tebow might start sooner rather than later - it states Tebow may play sooner than later - at this time, how can you equate that to Coach McD absolutely indicating/stating that Tebow will be the starter, rather than Tebow may play sooner than later? If Tebow proves, after training camp, preseason, that he is superior to Orton and Quinn, he may very well end up the starter. Is that not what training camp/preseason is for? Some of the other players who finished the season as a starter in their position, may also lose that status.

Sorry Carol if you say "Orton is the starter period." that's an emphatic statement.

You are taking that comment out context. Within in context of the statement he's talking about Tebow starting not just playing.

Here's the rest of that statement:


"To me, (Tebow's acumen) gives him an advantage, an opportunity to play earlier than other people have played. Everybody keeps talking about it will be two, three years before he can play, and I think they don't know this guy. His mental capacity, and the way that he works, and the fact that he's on such a fast pace, will give him the chance to compete apples-to-apples."

You're mistaken if you think that competing apples-to-apples doesn't mean that McDaniels is talking about Tim starting.

[topscribe]

So you agree that they were playing the safetys deep because of our ineffective running game, not because they were afraid of Orton's deep ball. Glad we have that cleared up! :beer:

And just to clarify, I said "average at best", which means on his best days I think he is average. Not that there's anything wrong with average, it's just that average play at that position doesn't win you championships, unless you have an all-time great defense.

On Orton's "best days" were week through week 10, when he was playing
without injury. During those 10 weeks, he had one bad game (Pittsburgh) and
one "average" game (Baltimore, who demonstrably played the safeties deep,
BTW). The remainder of those games, Orton had a QBR over 100 three times
and over 90 twice. That is hardly "average," in my eyes, anyway.

BTW, of the remaining seven games, Orton's QBR went over 90 four times, and
one other (NYG) was at 89.1, just shy. That was with his high ankle sprain.

In the final KC game, Orton showed many of his wares, apparently having
begun to recover somewhat from the sprain. He passed for 431 yards,
including two tightly contested 50+ yarders to Gaffney (one a completion, and
the other where he and Gaffney induced a defensive pass interference in what
would have been a TD pass), mobility, and ability to throw on the run. Yes, he
had the three INTs, one that was indeed a horrible throw, but, of the others,
another that was a tremendous play by a Pro Bowl LB and the third in garbage
time.

So, as I mentioned, considering what he went through last year, I remained
impressed, and I look forward to seeing what he can do if he can remain
healthy this year.

-----

[WARHORSE]

Unless your name is Tom Brady, Drew Brees or Peyton Manning, you being named the starter means youre the starter unless someone else beats you out.


Orton being named the starter doesnt mean he doesn not have to hold off the competition at his position during training camp and preseason.


Unless a player is an aging vet, and the coaches want to keep them fresh with limited reps during the summer, every players position is up for grabs.

Orton is the starter and has earned the right to.......what?


Earned the right to automatically be the guy under center in game one this year?

No.


He simply has earned the right to get the starters reps in practice and training camp.

That doesnt mean that if Quinn or Tebow or Brandstater starts lighting it up during practice better than Orton they wont get to pinch some of those reps themselves.

McDaniels has said nothing wrong nor contradictory concerning the position of QB in Denver.

[topscribe]

Analysis from McDaniels (it's been shown numerous times that he is not forthright with the media) and from Orton, do you really think Orton is going to come out and say that DC's stacked the box against him because of his weak arm and the inability to get the ball downfield on a semi regular basis? MHR is full of opinion pieces, just like you see here.

Whatever the reason, the opposing teams did stack the box and Orton did not throw downfield on a regular basis.

Why take it so personally whenever anyone brings Orton up in a negative light....and it's really not even negative. Some just don't agree that he does throw downfield or that he has this strong arm. There is nothing wrong with disagreeing....just don't take it so personally.

Why are you accusing me of taking it personally? Am I alone in not being allowed
to disagree and present my side, according to the facts I have observed?
Would you please provide some specific examples from this discussion to show
that I am taking it personally? So there is nothing wrong with disagreeing . . .
unless it is I who disagrees, is that correct?

If you are going to comment on my attitude, would you please first develop
some insight?

-----

[TXBRONC]

Unless your name is Tom Brady, Drew Brees or Peyton Manning, you being named the starter means youre the starter unless someone else beats you out.


Orton being named the starter doesnt mean he doesn not have to hold off the competition at his position during training camp and preseason.


Unless a player is an aging vet, and the coaches want to keep them fresh with limited reps during the summer, every players position is up for grabs.

Orton is the starter and has earned the right to.......what?


Earned the right to automatically be the guy under center in game one this year?

No.


He simply has earned the right to get the starters reps in practice and training camp.

That doesnt mean that if Quinn or Tebow or Brandstater starts lighting it up during practice better than Orton they wont get to pinch some of those reps themselves.

McDaniels has said nothing wrong nor contradictory concerning the position of QB in Denver.

I think he has said two different things. All coaches do that from time to time.

[Denver Native (Carol)]

Sorry Carol if you say "Orton is the starter period." that's an emphatic statement.

You are taking that comment out context. Within in context of the statement he's talking about Tebow starting not just playing.

Here's the rest of that statement:



You're mistaken if you think that competing apples-to-apples doesn't mean that McDaniels is talking about Tim starting.

It was not an emphatic statement when it was said. Orton finished the season as the starter.

Competing apples-to-apples - All 3 quarterbacks will be competing apples-to-apples for the starting position. If Tebow comes out on top in the competition, he will be the starter.

[topscribe]

It was not an emphatic statement when it was said.

Competing apples-to-apples - All 3 quarterbacks will be competing apples-to-apples for the starting position. If Tebow comes out on top in the competition, he will be the starter.

Careful . . . don't take it personally . . . :coffee:

-----

[Lonestar]

On Orton's "best days" were week through week 10, when he was playing
without injury. During those 10 weeks, he had one bad game (Pittsburgh) and
one "average" game (Baltimore, who demonstrably played the safeties deep,
BTW). The remainder of those games, Orton had a QBR over 100 three times
and over 90 twice. That is hardly "average," in my eyes, anyway.

BTW, of the remaining seven games, Orton's QBR went over 90 four times, and
one other (NYG) was at 89.1, just shy. That was with his high ankle sprain.

In the final KC game, Orton showed many of his wares, apparently having
begun to recover somewhat from the sprain. He passed for 431 yards,
including two tightly contested 50+ yarders to Gaffney (one a completion, and
the other where he and Gaffney induced a defensive pass interference in what
would have been a TD pass), mobility, and ability to throw on the run. Yes, he
had the three INTs, one that was indeed a horrible throw, but, of the others,
another that was a tremendous play by a Pro Bowl LB and the third in garbage
time.

So, as I mentioned, considering what he went through last year, I remained
impressed, and I look forward to seeing what he can do if he can remain
healthy this year.

-----

OMG Top your now flirting with having the QBR police come in and say QBR are worthless POS. Because they are for the weak of mind and the ONLY folks that take it seriously are brain less TV annoucers.

AhahahahahahhhahahahahhahahAha
Mobile Post via Mobile.BroncosForums.com/forums

[topscribe]

OMG Top your now flirting with having the QBR police come in and say QBR are worthless POS. Because they are for the weak of mind and the ONLY folks that take it seriously are brain less TV annoucers.

AhahahahahahhhahahahahhahahAha
Mobile Post via Mobile.BroncosForums.com/forums

True. Those with the stronger minds want to be able to say "Orton sucks," and we all say "Yeah!"

-----

[arapaho2]

My Savior is Jesus Christ. And Jesus Christ only. Did we get that straight now?

I am only trying to establish some facts here. Some of your comment was
very good here . . . good enough that you could have done without the
allusion to me.

Anyway, I agree with those analysts who said the Broncos need t open up the
deep game more . . . something that both McDaniels and Orton said would
happen . . .
-----

problem is things mcd say will happen, more often dont

cutler is our guy...he's our qb
hopefully marshall will be a bronco for a long time
we will find a way to get hillis more involvemnt

[arapaho2]

Analysis from McDaniels (it's been shown numerous times that he is not forthright with the media) and from Orton, do you really think Orton is going to come out and say that DC's stacked the box against him because of his weak arm and the inability to get the ball downfield on a semi regular basis? MHR is full of opinion pieces, just like you see here.

Whatever the reason, the opposing teams did stack the box and Orton did not throw downfield on a regular basis.

Why take it so personally whenever anyone brings Orton up in a negative light....and it's really not even negative. Some just don't agree that he does throw downfield or that he has this strong arm. There is nothing wrong with disagreeing....just don't take it so personally.


thats right...anytime someone mentions his arm...its imediatly followed up with a " remember he threw a ball 50 yards agaisnt the chiefs...or the redskins"

they forget there was probably 2-3 times that many shots he failed to take, or choose the safe short pass instead

many high school qbs can throw the ball 50 yards...dont mean shit in the pros...sure orton can fling it down field...but he rarely does and lacks the arm to consistantly spead the field and worry a defense

[topscribe]

problem is things mcd say will happen, more often dont

cutler is our guy...he's our qb
hopefully marshall will be a bronco for a long time
we will find a way to get hillis more involvemnt

You are over-generalizing, Rap.

Mr. Bowlen made the announcement that Cutler will be traded after Cutler
refused to return his (Bowlen's) calls.

I believe McDaniels did hope he could work things out with Marshall.

And Hillis was traded for a QB, where there was far less depth than at RB.

You just can't always take things out of context and arrive at truth . . .

-----

[topscribe]

many high school qbs can throw the ball 50 yards...dont mean shit in the pros...sure orton can fling it down field...but he rarely does and lacks the arm to consistantly spead the field and worry a defense

Orton threw it 74 yards in high school. Not many pro QBs can do that.

And when anybody mentions his arm, you seem to immediately talk about how
he lacks it. Works two ways, doesn't it?

-----

[arapaho2]

You are over-generalizing, Rap.

Mr. Bowlen made the announcement that Cutler will be traded after Cutler
refused to return his (Bowlen's) calls.

I believe McDaniels did hope he could work things out with Marshall.

And Hillis was traded for a QB, where there was far less depth than at RB.

You just can't always take things out of context and arrive at truth . . .

-----

top...do you honestly believe that little smirk on mcds face when he held up cutlers jersy was because he wanted cutler there?

get real mcd knew cutler was gone when he got there , no matter his proffessing he came here to work with cutler

you dont say in your press conferance..the reason i choose denver was to work with cutler...then try and trade him for a career backup a few days later..if you honestly meant it

[topscribe]

top...do you honestly believe that little smirk on mcds face when he held up cutlers jersy was because he wanted cutler there?

get real mcd knew cutler was gone when he got there , no matter his proffessing he came here to work with cutler

you dont say in your press conferance..the reason i choose denver was to work with cutler...then try and trade him for a career backup a few days later..if you honestly meant it

I did not state my beliefs. I only presented the facts. Beyond that, what do you or I know about it?

Just for the record, I'm not necessarily a McDaniels fan. I just like facts, that's all . . .

-----

[arapaho2]

Orton threw it 74 yards in high school. Not many pro QBs can do that.

And when anybody mentions his arm, you seem to immediately talk about how
he lacks it. Works two ways, doesn't it?

-----


i have not said he lacks the ability to throw it deep top..theres a differance between just chucking it as far as you can and trusting your arm to get it where it needs to be...he can throw it deep...he doesnt have the arm to trust it enough

plummer could throw 50 yard passes....they were terrible though as the wrs had to slow down and wait for them to flutter back to earth

[arapaho2]

I did not state my beliefs. I only presented the facts. Beyond that, what do you or I know about it?

Just for the record, I'm not necessarily a McDaniels fan. I just like facts, that's all . . .

-----


and the facts are..mcd proffessed he came here to work with cutler, then imediatly tried to trade him

now would you say the fact was ...he really didnt want cutler

[Lonestar]

You are over-generalizing, Rap.

Mr. Bowlen made the announcement that Cutler will be traded after Cutler
refused to return his (Bowlen's) calls.

I believe McDaniels did hope he could work things out with Marshall.

And Hillis was traded for a QB, where there was far less depth than at RB.

You just can't always take things out of context and arrive at truth . . .

-----

Thanks for putting that one to bed. Saved me from wasted breathe.

I believe that Josh would have salvaged the jay thingy had jay not pissed off Pat.

As for brandon things were great between them till BM got his 100 catches and named to the pro bowl. At that point it seemed like BM did not care any more. That was about the time of the "its to cold to practice" the hammy and then missing an appoitment time for rehab.

All of which where squarely changes in attitude of Brandons and his only. True colors were showing and I suspect Josh was not interested in hand holding any longer. Just wanted the kid to grow up. As for Hillis he got an offer he could not refuse.
Mobile Post via Mobile.BroncosForums.com/forums

[topscribe]

i have not said he lacks the ability to throw it deep top..theres a differance between just chucking it as far as you can and trusting your arm to get it where it needs to be...he can throw it deep...he doesnt have the arm to trust it enough

plummer could throw 50 yard passes....they were terrible though as the wrs had to slow down and wait for them to flutter back to earth

He either has the arm, or he doesn't. He has the arm.

I think what you are talking about is confidence in his arm. And maybe he does
need to work on that. From what he has said, it sounds as if he has been doing
that. I have always admitted Orton needs to improve his deep game. So all I can
say to that is, we'll see . . .

-----

[topscribe]

and the facts are..mcd proffessed he came here to work with cutler, then imediatly tried to trade him

now would you say the fact was ...he really didnt want cutler

What has come through to me is that McDaniels and Xanders received calls
about Cassel, discussed them, and turned them down. Now, whether that is or
is not fact, I don't know for sure. The point is, neither do you . . .

-----

[topscribe]

i have not said he lacks the ability to throw it deep top..theres a differance between just chucking it as far as you can and trusting your arm to get it where it needs to be...he can throw it deep...he doesnt have the arm to trust it enough

plummer could throw 50 yard passes....they were terrible though as the wrs had to slow down and wait for them to flutter back to earth

Just the other day, I watched some Plummer highlights where he completed to
Lelie in full stride. One went about 60 yards in the air, IIRC. Plummer was not a
superb deep passer, but I never saw many "flutters."

Wow, three posts in a row. I should have combined them. Sorry to everyone.

-----

[TXBRONC]

i have not said he lacks the ability to throw it deep top..theres a differance between just chucking it as far as you can and trusting your arm to get it where it needs to be...he can throw it deep...he doesnt have the arm to trust it enough

plummer could throw 50 yard passes....they were terrible though as the wrs had to slow down and wait for them to flutter back to earth

That's wasn't my either point nor did I bring up his arm strength someone else did. ;) I just pointing out that one thing about several weeks backa and now is saying something different.

[T.K.O.]

Tebow starts fourth on the depth chart
Posted by Gregg Rosenthal on May 17, 2010 1:54 PM ET
Veteran Broncos PR VP Jim Saccomano wrote Monday that he hasn't seen interest in OTAs this crazy since John Elway was a rookie.

Tim Tebow is the reason for all the attention, but in some ways he's just like any other rookie beginning his first practices with NFL veterans.

As Lindsay Jones of the Denver Post points out, Tebow is fourth in line for quarterback reps behind Kyle Orton, Brady Quinn, and forgotten man Tom Brandstater. (We've consistently heard good things about Brandstater, but it's hard to see where he fits now.)

Finding enough snaps for all of the Denver quarterbacks will be a challenge for coach Josh McDaniels throughout the offseason. We're sure he'd call it a good problem to have.

[TXBRONC]

Tebow starts fourth on the depth chart
Posted by Gregg Rosenthal on May 17, 2010 1:54 PM ET
Veteran Broncos PR VP Jim Saccomano wrote Monday that he hasn't seen interest in OTAs this crazy since John Elway was a rookie.

Tim Tebow is the reason for all the attention, but in some ways he's just like any other rookie beginning his first practices with NFL veterans.

As Lindsay Jones of the Denver Post points out, Tebow is fourth in line for quarterback reps behind Kyle Orton, Brady Quinn, and forgotten man Tom Brandstater. (We've consistently heard good things about Brandstater, but it's hard to see where he fits now.)

Finding enough snaps for all of the Denver quarterbacks will be a challenge for coach Josh McDaniels throughout the offseason. We're sure he'd call it a good problem to have.

It's not a big surprise.

[arapaho2]

He either has the arm, or he doesn't. He has the arm.

I think what you are talking about is confidence in his arm. And maybe he does
need to work on that. From what he has said, it sounds as if he has been doing
that. I have always admitted Orton needs to improve his deep game. So all I can
say to that is, we'll see . . .

-----

Why we both know orton has no future here

[topscribe]

Why we both know orton has no future here

No we don't.

-----

[arapaho2]

What has come through to me is that McDaniels and Xanders received calls
about Cassel, discussed them, and turned them down. Now, whether that is or
is not fact, I don't know for sure. The point is, neither do you . . .

-----

Wrong and you know it...McDonald broke down and admitted he tried to make the deal but was late for the dance

[topscribe]

Wrong and you know it...McDonald broke down and admitted he tried to make the deal but was late for the dance

So now you are calling me a liar? I revealed what I know. If you know something
more, say so and then document it so I can know, too.

But do not call me a liar . . .

-----

[BroncoWave]

No we don't.

-----

Do you honestly think he has a future here? Serious question.

[TXBRONC]

Originally Posted by arapaho2
Why we both know orton has no future here.


No we don't.

-----

Are you saying that McDaniels went to all trouble of maneuvering back into first round draft Tebow to be a career back up?

If Orton had a future here he would already have a contract extension.

[topscribe]

Do you honestly think he has a future here? Serious question.

I don't know. And neither do you, for sure. Serious answer.



Are you saying that McDaniels went to all trouble of maneuvering back into first round draft Tebow to be a career back up?

If Orton had a future here he would already have a contract extension.

Ryan Leaf, Tommy Maddox, JaMarcus Russell, Brady Quinn . . . what do these
have in common with Tim Tebow? Were they drafted to be career backups? I am
saying Tebow has not yet thrown a single pass in the NFL. I am saying that I
will judge when I see him perform on the field under normal circumstances. I am
saying that I don't know, and you do not, either, at this point.


Why is it that level-headedness is so unreasonable on this board? :tsk:

-----

[T.K.O.]

because i just blew 1000.00 on black jack at the new "casino" !

[BroncoWave]

I don't know. And neither do you, for sure. Serious answer.

:lol: Well then what's the point of even having this message board? We don't know for sure what's going to happen in the future so we shouldn't even discuss it?

You do have an opinion on the matter don't you? In YOUR opinion, does Kyle Orton have a future with the Broncos past this season? It's a pretty simple question.

[BroncoWave]

Why is it that level-headedness is so unreasonable on this board? :tsk:

:lol: Give me a break. Are you saying a reasonable, level-headed person couldn't come to a conclusion that since we traded for a recent first round QB then traded up into the first round to draft another QB that the current QB (who is on the last year of his deal) may not have much of a future left with the organization? Are you really saying that based on those facts that that's not a reasonable conclusion to come to?

[topscribe]

:lol: Well then what's the point of even having this message board? We don't know for sure what's going to happen in the future so we shouldn't even discuss it?

You do have an opinion on the matter don't you? In YOUR opinion, does Kyle Orton have a future with the Broncos past this season? It's a pretty simple question.

In my opinion, I don't know. If you can tell me how to make it more elementary
than that, I will be happy to oblige . . .

-----

[topscribe]

:lol: Give me a break. Are you saying a reasonable, level-headed person could come to a conclusion that since we traded for a recent first round QB then traded up into the first round to draft another QB that the current QB (who is on the last year of his deal) may not have much of a future left with the organization? Are you really saying that based on those facts that that's not a reasonable conclusion to come to?

wut?

-----

[BroncoWave]

In my opinion, I don't know. If you can tell me how to make it more elementary
than that, I will be happy to oblige . . .

-----

Come on top, you're no fun! :lol:

If someone held a gun to your head and asked if you think Orton has a future with the Broncos after this season and you had to answer yes or no, what would you say?


wut?

-----

Let me see if I can explain more clearly...

The Broncos traded for a recent first round QB in Brady Quinn.

The Broncos traded THREE picks to get back into the first round to draft Tim Tebow, who Josh McDaniels is on record of saying will have a very good career in the NFL.

The Broncos had a chance to extend Orton's contract this season and didn't do so, and this is now the last year of his deal.

Based on those facts, could a reasonable, level-headed person not have the opinion that Orton doesn't have a long-term future in Denver?

[TXBRONC]

I don't know. And neither do you, for sure. Serious answer.




Ryan Leaf, Tommy Maddox, JaMarcus Russell, Brady Quinn . . . what do these
have in common with Tim Tebow? Were they drafted to be career backups? I am
saying Tebow has not yet thrown a single pass in the NFL. I am saying that I
will judge when I see him perform on the field under normal circumstances. I am
saying that I don't know, and you do not, either, at this point.


Why is it that level-headedness is so unreasonable on this board? :tsk:

-----

Why do you keep avoid the fact Orton didn't long term contract extension?

I wish you the best, I hope that in the nearby future you will be more level-headed and reasonable.

[Denver Native (Carol)]

My take - I am confident that Coach McD and whoever else is in on the decisions, will put the BEST players out on the field, at all positions - the players who will give the Broncos the BEST chance of winning games.

[topscribe]

Come on top, you're no fun! :lol:

If someone held a gun to your head and asked if you think Orton has a future with the Broncos after this season and you had to answer yes or no, what would you say?

That's a pretty stupid hypothesis, isn't it?



Let me see if I can explain more clearly...

The Broncos traded for a recent first round QB in Brady Quinn.

The Broncos traded THREE picks to get back into the first round to draft Tim Tebow, who Josh McDaniels is on record of saying will have a very good career in the NFL.

The Broncos had a chance to extend Orton's contract this season and didn't do so, and this is now the last year of his deal.

Based on those facts, could a reasonable, level-headed person not have the opinion that Orton doesn't have a long-term future in Denver?

That's fine if that's your opinion. I was answering to predictions. So is that
your opinion or your prediction?

My prediction is, I don't know. My opinion is, I don't have one.

Why is that so hard to understand? :coffee:

-----

[TXBRONC]

My take - I am confident that Coach McD and whoever else is in on the decisions, will put the BEST players out on the field, at all positions - the players who will give the Broncos the BEST chance of winning games.

Carol every head coach tries to do that very thing.

[topscribe]

Carol every head coach tries to do that very thing.

It was the most reasonable prediction I've seen on this board.

In fact, the only reasonable one . . .

-----

[BroncoWave]

That's a pretty stupid hypothesis, isn't it?




That's fine if that's your opinion. I was answering to predictions. So is that
your opinion or your prediction?

My prediction is, I don't know. My opinion is, I don't have one.

Why is that so hard to understand? :coffee:

-----

You're just not going to answer my question it seems. That's fine.

You know what I think? I think that deep down, you know that Orton has no future here and that this is probably his last year here, but you absolutely refuse to admit it because at this point you've defended him so much there is no going back, and you'd rather sink with him than admit you were wrong.

[BroncoWave]

In fact, the only reasonable one . . .

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Then please educate me, what is unreasonable about thinking that Orton doesn't have a long term future here based on these FACTS:

"The Broncos traded for a recent first round QB in Brady Quinn.

The Broncos traded THREE picks to get back into the first round to draft Tim Tebow, who Josh McDaniels is on record of saying will have a very good career in the NFL.

The Broncos had a chance to extend Orton's contract this season and didn't do so, and this is now the last year of his deal."

You still haven't explained WHY that is unreasonable.

[topscribe]

You're just not going to answer my question it seems. That's fine.

You know what I think? I think that deep down, you know that Orton has no future here and that this is probably his last year here, but you absolutely refuse to admit it because at this point you've defended him so much there is no going back, and you'd rather sink with him than admit you were wrong.

You think you're pretty good at telling me what I know, don't you?

Had enough baiting for the day?

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[BroncoWave]

You think you're pretty good at telling me what I know, don't you?

Had enough baiting for the day?

-----

Well you didn't deny my claim, so I think there is probably a lot of truth to it.

[topscribe]

Then please educate me, what is unreasonable about thinking that Orton doesn't have a long term future here based on these FACTS:

"The Broncos traded for a recent first round QB in Brady Quinn.

The Broncos traded THREE picks to get back into the first round to draft Tim Tebow, who Josh McDaniels is on record of saying will have a very good career in the NFL.

The Broncos had a chance to extend Orton's contract this season and didn't do so, and this is now the last year of his deal."

You still haven't explained WHY that is unreasonable.

I don't think there is any educating you. I speak as a former teacher.

Let's just end it here, shall we?

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[broncophan]

You're just not going to answer my question it seems. That's fine.

You know what I think? I think that deep down, you know that Orton has no future here and that this is probably his last year here, but you absolutely refuse to admit it because at this point you've defended him so much there is no going back, and you'd rather sink with him than admit you were wrong.

Ok......."Orton has no future with the Denver Broncos".............signed Topscribe

Does that make you feel better?????:)

[BroncoWave]

I don't think there is any educating you. I speak as a former teacher.

Let's just end it here, shall we?

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Please drop your condescending bullshit.

I presented the facts and made a prediction based on those facts. I'm not the only person to draw that conclusion from those facts. In fact, that's the same conclusion many people have drawn.

You claim that this conclusion is unreasonable, but you refuse to explain why. If you don't want to explain it to me because you don't like/respect me, fine. But there are SEVERAL other people on this board that have the same opinion as me and by saying I am unreasonable and not level-headed by having that opinion, you are saying the same thing about those people too.

Leaving me out of it, do those people not deserve an explanation as to why they are unreasonable and not level-headed?

[topscribe]

Over and out. :coffee:

P.S. This just in from the MHS you just sent me: "More hypocrisy from the guy
who always bitches about me making him the topic."

Is that baiting, or what?

I'm done.

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[OrangeHoof]

What Tebow can't know and what McDaniels can't prepare him for is what it is like to deal with NFL-caliber speed and athleticism. He can learn the playbook all he wants but whether he becomes a stud or a bust in the NFL will depend on whether he can read blitzes at the snap, find the open receiver and accurately execute the pass. The first part of that, he's going to need to process and react to within 1.5 seconds of receiving the snap and react with a high level of reliability.

If he can do that, he'll be a great NFL quarterback. If he can't, he'll be an expensive bust that no amount of coaching will fix. That was the lesson with David Carr. His porous line did him no favors but, ultimately, he couldn't read and react to defenses within the amount of time it took to react and it killed him as a pro.

When Tebow can get through a game against a defense like the Ravens or Steelers (and I think we can now add the Jets), without becoming roadkill, I'll be convinced he can be a big winner in this league. But he has a long way to go before he reaches that point.

[topscribe]

What Tebow can't know and what McDaniels can't prepare him for is what it is like to deal with NFL-caliber speed and athleticism. He can learn the playbook all he wants but whether he becomes a stud or a bust in the NFL will depend on whether he can read blitzes at the snap, find the open receiver and accurately execute the pass. The first part of that, he's going to need to process and react to within 1.5 seconds of receiving the snap and react with a high level of reliability.

If he can do that, he'll be a great NFL quarterback. If he can't, he'll be an expensive bust that no amount of coaching will fix. That was the lesson with David Carr. His porous line did him no favors but, ultimately, he couldn't read and react to defenses within the amount of time it took to react and it killed him as a pro.

When Tebow can get through a game against a defense like the Ravens or Steelers (and I think we can now add the Jets), without becoming roadkill, I'll be convinced he can be a big winner in this league. But he has a long way to go before he reaches that point.

Put a lot more eloquently that I did it. :salute:

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[BroncoWave]

Over and out. :coffee:

:lol: Instead of backing up your ridiculous claim that those who think Orton is gone are unreasonable and not level-headed, you claim to take the high road and end the discussion.

I guess it's easier for your cop-out "I don't know" answer than to actually have some balls and make a prediction. Like I said though, I have no doubt in my mind that you know Orton has no future here, you just can't admit you were wrong.

[topscribe]

Ok......."Orton has no future with the Denver Broncos".............signed Topscribe

Does that make you feel better?????:)

What I can't figure out is why that's so important to him . . . :confused:

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[dogfish]

What Tebow can't know and what McDaniels can't prepare him for is what it is like to deal with NFL-caliber speed and athleticism. He can learn the playbook all he wants but whether he becomes a stud or a bust in the NFL will depend on whether he can read blitzes at the snap, find the open receiver and accurately execute the pass. The first part of that, he's going to need to process and react to within 1.5 seconds of receiving the snap and react with a high level of reliability.

If he can do that, he'll be a great NFL quarterback. If he can't, he'll be an expensive bust that no amount of coaching will fix. That was the lesson with David Carr. His porous line did him no favors but, ultimately, he couldn't read and react to defenses within the amount of time it took to react and it killed him as a pro.

When Tebow can get through a game against a defense like the Ravens or Steelers (and I think we can now add the Jets), without becoming roadkill, I'll be convinced he can be a big winner in this league. But he has a long way to go before he reaches that point.

the NFL will have to adjust to the speed of tebow,not the other way around. . . .


:cool:

[T.K.O.]

i do believe mcD will make the call that he feels gives us the best chance to win,why would'nt he?it's his job on the line not any reporters or fans:salute:


It was the most reasonable prediction I've seen on this board.

In fact, the only reasonable one . . .

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just wanted to show you that it was'nt "THE ONLY ONE ":D

[BroncoWave]

What I can't figure out is why that's so important to him . . . :confused:

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Just like I can't figure out why you flat our refuse to explain your stance.

[T.K.O.]

i can help.....the stance in question is that of someone who does not claim to know the future.
one that says "we'll have to see what happens and i'm not going to assume that the addition of other players automatically means one will start over the other.
and that in the nfl strange things happen every year...orton could win his 1st 10 games and sign a multi year deal or quinn could start and continue to do so for years.....or tebow could play lights out for the preseason and wrangle the job away from both.
or 100 other scenario's could play out .
so basically it's too soon to call it.....:salute:
glad i could be of assistance

[BroncoWave]

i can help.....the stance in question is that of someone who does not claim to know the future.
one that says "we'll have to see what happens and i'm not going to assume that the addition of other players automatically means one will start over the other.
and that in the nfl strange things happen every year...orton could win his 1st 10 games and sign a multi year deal or quinn could start and continue to do so for years.....or tebow could play lights out for the preseason and wrangle the job away from both.
or 100 other scenario's could play out .
so basically it's too soon to call it.....:salute:
glad i could be of assistance

But under this scenario, the facts of the matter will have changed. Based on the CURRENT facts, I don't think it is at all unreasonable to assume that Orton has no long-term future here. Based on his level of play in his career and based on the moves the Broncos have made this offseason, that is a reasonable prediction.

Now if somehow there is some divine intervention and Orton becomes a Pro Bowl QB, then MAYBE that prediction could change, but based on his career to date, that is a pretty big leap to make.

[Rick]

kyle Orton is not a bad QB, he just isn't looking to be a guy to really lean on.

Forget Brady Quinn for the moment. It is very possible we traded for him to be a guy who if he lives up to his former hype might take over for Orton but otherwise is a solid backup.

No real danger there to Orton, we didn't spend anything really on Quinn so nothing lost if he doesn't pan out, he is just competition.

Tebow on the other hand spells doom for Orton.

No one spends a first rounder on a QB with the intention of him being a backup. No one.

If Orton plays lights out awesome he will keep his job but make no mistake Tebow was definitely drafted to be the guy and it will take a stellar performance from Orton for that to not happen.

[BroncoWave]

Also, let's assume that Orton does have a GREAT year. Does anyone REALLY think he would re-sign here with Tebow breathing right down his neck?

Whether he does great or terrible this year, I just don't see a realistic scenario in which Orton is the long-term QB here.

[GEM]

Whether a poster wants to continue to request an answer to a football stance is of no difference to me, but let me be straight, we will not allow the personal tones this thread has turned into. Let's stop with the personal back and forth, and that includes the MHS's.

[broncophan]

Also, let's assume that Orton does have a GREAT year. Does anyone REALLY think he would re-sign here with Tebow breathing right down his neck?

Whether he does great or terrible this year, I just don't see a realistic scenario in which Orton is the long-term QB here.

.....well.......we'll have to see how things pan out.......I know we will need a veteran qb......it scares me(at least for now) to think of Tebow,Quinn, and Brandstater as our ONLY quarterback options.

[honz]

I love tim teboooooooooooooooowwwwwwwwwwwww!

[Denver Native (Carol)]

Carol every head coach tries to do that very thing.

I thought it best to post what I did rather than state that it makes NO sense for members to be arguing, dissing one another over certain players, etc., etc.

Of course, I know that every head coach tries to put the best players on the field - that is a given.

[topscribe]

I thought it best to post what I did rather than state that it makes NO sense for members to be arguing, dissing one another over certain players, etc., etc.

Of course, I know that every head coach tries to put the best players on the field - that is a given.

And in the end, no one knows for sure who the best players will be (except for
a very few, such as left cornerback). Otherwise, why have OTAs and camp?
That has been my point all along.

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[GEM]

Maybe I wasn't clear with either of you...

KNOCK IT OFF.

[broncophan]

Maybe I wasn't clear with either of you...

KNOCK IT OFF.

See.....now you have really done it......Gem is pissed off.....

[honz]

Stop, take some time to think, figure out what's important to you! We've gotta make a serious decision.

[GEM]

I am done with this childish bs. The next step is to close down a perfectly good thread because 2 posters won't rise above leaving each other the **** alone. This ends now or the thread dies. Which is it?

[topscribe]

I am done with this childish bs. The next step is to close down a perfectly good thread because 2 posters won't rise above leaving each other the **** alone. This ends now or the thread dies. Which is it?

Put it to death. There. My vote is in.

And I hope the conversation is reviewed to see whether it was actually two posters.

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[Dreadnought]

It was two posters, and I'm stopping it. This is rubbish