Broncos' Dumervil to return to Denver

[Denver Native (Carol)]

http://www.denverpost.com/broncos/ci_15079898

Broncos star outside linebacker Elvis Dumervil is scheduled to return to Denver on Sunday and is expected to be at Dove Valley when the team holds its first voluntary organized team activity starting Monday morning.

It is unclear if Dumervil will participate in the on-field practices because he has not signed his restricted free-agent tender, but that fact he is showing up could be a sign of goodwill between Dumervil and the team.

Dumervil has not attended the Broncos' voluntary conditioning program that started in March.

"I think we'll see Elvis on Sunday, and we're looking forward to that," coach Josh McDaniels said this afternoon, after giving the keynote speech at the scholarship luncheon for the John Lynch Foundation at Invesco Field at Mile High.

Dumervil has until June 15 to sign the tender that will guarantee him a salary of $3.168 million in 2010. Dumervil, who led the NFL in sacks and made his first Pro Bowl in 2009, is in line for a major contract, perhaps on par with the $38 million guaranteed that Terrell Suggs received from the Ravens before last season.

Dumervil is the last of the Broncos restricted free agents to remain unsigned. Quarterback Kyle Orton and right guard Chris Kuper signed their tenders, so they could work out with the team this spring. Brandon Marshall and Tony Scheffler signed their tenders just before both players were traded in April.

[Softskull]

Pay the man

[Northman]

Come on Doom, sign the tender and lets kick some ass.

[BigBroncLove]

Good to hear. Right on time for OTA's with mini camps around the corner. I hope this means a contract and not tender, but whatever it means it's good to know Doom will be back.

[Shazam!]

He is the most important Denver defensive player in the last 10 years. This man must be retained at all costs. I will never forgive McDaniels or the Broncos if he allows him to walk away. Pay him and move on.

[WARHORSE]

He is the most important Denver defensive player in the last 10 years. This man must be retained at all costs. I will never forgive McDaniels or the Broncos if he allows him to walk away. Pay him and move on.

Well, since he cant just walk away, I dont think you have to worry about that scenario.
:D

[Denver Native (Carol)]

http://blog.denverbroncos.com/denverbroncos/mcdaniels-i-think-well-see-elvis-sunday/

This weekend, Elvis is expected to be back in the building.

Head Coach Josh McDaniels was the key note speaker at the 12th annual John Lynch Salutes the Stars Awards luncheon on Thursday. After he stepped down from the podium, he answered a few football questions, starting with the excitement swirling around Dove Valley heading into next week’s OTAs — a passing camp that is expected to include Elvis Dumervil among all the returning rookies and veterans.

“I think we’ll see Elvis Sunday, and we’re looking forward to that,” McDaniels said. “We’re excited.”

The head coach and the rest of the staff are anxious to kick off Organized Team Activities on Monday, a day McDaniels said is “always exciting.”

“It’s just an opportunity for us to put our team out there and start teaching them,” he said. “We’ve made some corrections, we’ve made some changes with our scheme and our system, we’ve obviously changed players and added the rookies to it, too. Monday will be an exciting day because it will be the first time that everybody actually sits in the same room together. You know that your team will be made up of the people in that room. It’s just an exciting time. We haven’t been together for a while. The rookies will be back, their eyes will be wide and hopefully we get a great start on the season starting next week.”

Later, he elaborated on some of the changes with the scheme that he hopes to begin implementing as soon as Monday.

“I’ve called plays for five straight seasons now, I don’t think we’ve ever really run the same type of base offense — we’ve changed it because we were different,” he said. “We have different sets of players, different skills and different unique players that can do different things.

“We’re going to try to make ourselves as difficult to defend on offense and we’re going to be real aggressive defensively,” McDaniels continued. “We want to be disciplined yet attack, attack, attack. That’s what our focus is going to be on. It’s always good to add some things that allow your players to play fast, and we think we’ve done that this offseason with what we’ve tried to add with our scheme.”

But the additions haven’t just been limited to the scheme. McDaniels said the team is always evaluating the free agent market, and a big-name player visited the facility earlier today — running back Brian Westbrook.

“We had a great meeting with him,” McDaniels said. “He’s not in a hurry, but certainly he’s a talented player and we wanted to do our research and make sure we got him in here and had an opportunity to speak with him. He’s a great person, a great football player and he’s healthy now. That’s a really important part for him and for everybody else concerned. We’ll see where it goes, but it would be another addition to our football team that we think would help us.”

The head coach made sure to clarify that “it was a visit, it was nothing more than that at this point,” but he didn’t hesitate to praise the back who has amassed 5,995 yards on the ground and 3,790 yards through the air in his eight seasons in the league.

“He’s a really good football player,” McDaniels said. “He’s got a lot of skills. I think he fits in with the mold of our backs — they’re not one-dimensional, and he certainly isn’t either. If we have an opportunity to add him, we just think we would make our football team better. Again, we’ve been after competition at every spot. We have backs that we feel very good about on our roster right now, but if you could add another good player at any position, we’re not opposed to doing it.”

[Broncolingus]

Denver will get this deal done...

I am confident of that...

(...I wonder what Ray Lewis thinks of this though...)

[BroncoWave]

He is the most important Denver defensive player in the last 10 years. This man must be retained at all costs. I will never forgive McDaniels or the Broncos if he allows him to walk away. Pay him and move on.

Al Wilson might have a thing or 2 to say about that.

[Shazam!]

Al Wilson might have a thing or 2 to say about that.

Champ too...

[tomjonesrocks]

He's been a good soldier. If the team doesn't reward him, there will be no incentive for any player in the locker room in the same situation not go Cutler and Marshall when they deserve a raise.

C'mon...do what's right and pay him.

[Lonestar]

Until he becomes more than pass rusher HE does NOT deserve HUGE money.

That is a fact.

If he wants to sign a contract that is incentive laden that he can EARN it by improving his run stopping and pass coverage GREAT but signing him to a huge guaranteed contract without them is stupid on the part of the GM, and Owner.

One trick ponies are not something that we should be doing at this point.

As for the rest of the locker room they will get it that unless the are a complete packag they will be paid comensurate with their abilities. Like it should be.

The worst case senario is he is a Franchise player next year.

Actually he gota huge raise this year going from about 500K to 3.8 mil or so. About a 700% raise IIRC.

Is he worth more perhaps to someone else but as a pass rusher only not with my money.
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[HORSEPOWER 56]

Until he becomes more than pass rusher HE does NOT deserve HUGE money.

That is a fact.

If he wants to sign a contract that is incentive laden that he can EARN it by improving his run stopping and pass coverage GREAT but signing him to a huge guaranteed contract without them is stupid on the part of the GM, and Owner.

One trick ponies are not something that we should be doing at this point.

As for the rest of the locker room they will get it that unless the are a complete packag they will be paid comensurate with their abilities. Like it should be.

The worst case senario is he is a Franchise player next year.

Actually he gota huge raise this year going from about 500K to 3.8 mil or so. About a 700% raise IIRC.

Is he worth more perhaps to someone else but as a pass rusher only not with my money.
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I hate to bust your bubble, but... Dwight Freeney is a one trick pony. He is pretty much worthless vs the run. yet, he's still considered the best player on the Indy defense. Maybe it's because having a premier pass rusher (even if that's all they are) is the MOST IMPORTANT thing to a defense with the shift in the rules that favor the passing game and have opened up the offense.

It isn't the 1970's and 80's anymore. How long did the Broncos go without a real pass rusher before Doom finally came along? It's been a long time. The bottom line is this, WE NEED DOOM MORE THAN HE NEEDS US! If we don't pay him what he's worth (not what YOU think he's worth, JR - I mean real market value) then someone else will and we'll be stuck once again trying to find a replacement.

Pay the man, and lets get on to winning games!

[Lonestar]

Just saw a comment by marcus spears from the cowboys about the CBA said it sucks but life goes on.

Let's hope that Doom gets it also.
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[Shazam!]

He is one of the best defensive players Denver has had in years. I wont argue the fact whether he's dubbed a 'one trick pony' or not. The Broncos need him on a defense that has been lackluster talent-wise for years.

[Lonestar]

Who cares aboit freeny he is on a pretty much complete team that ONLY lacks a elite pass rusher.

We do not have that luruxy at this moment.

He is ou property TILL h works for 5 years and then HE is available as a franchise playr for a couple of years aftr that

BTW in case you missed the memo

JOSH wants VERSATILE players with a grat TEAM attitude.

DOOM is not versatile he is not a pass defender or good at run fdefense.

IIRC freeney is an every down player not so with doom

As much as I like the kid he flat is not worth a gazillion dollars till he can do something besides rush the passer.
Let him earn it via incentives and I'll give him the money with a smile on my face.
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[Bosco]

He is the most important Denver defensive player in the last 10 years. This man must be retained at all costs. I will never forgive McDaniels or the Broncos if he allows him to walk away. Pay him and move on.

It's very likely that Doom gets a rather large contract from us, but probably not this year, thanks to the CBA issue and the uncertainty that results from it.

[KyleOrtonArmySoldier#128]

He needs another great season, now that the league knows what kind of disruptor he is they'll key on him, to counter that he'll need to learn better pass coverage and run stopping if he wants D-ware type money. As much as I'd like to see Bowlen pay the man, that's because it's not my money being spent.

[SoCalImport]

With all the money spent on the D-line in the offseason the stage is definately set for Dunerville to have an even bigger year. With O-lines having to worry more about thos front 3 He should be able to at least be more effective against the run. Not to mention He'll be an absolute beast AGAIN rushing the QB.

I'd like to see Dume get his new deal this year, but it just might make more sense to wait...see what happens.

[Northman]

He is one of the best defensive players Denver has had in years. I wont argue the fact whether he's dubbed a 'one trick pony' or not. The Broncos need him on a defense that has been lackluster talent-wise for years.

A-*******-men.

Who else is there that can rush the passer? Yep, no one. The dude isnt a malcontent. The guy has had to play various positions since he came into the league and not bitched about it. Pay the man. Enough with the whiney BS about being a one trick pony. He hasnt had the luxury to stay in one spot long enough to get any chemistry at one position.

[honz]

A-*******-men.

Who else is there that can rush the passer? Yep, no one. The dude isnt a malcontent. The guy has had to play various positions since he came into the league and not bitched about it. Pay the man. Enough with the whiney BS about being a one trick pony. He hasnt had the luxury to stay in one spot long enough to get any chemistry at one position.

Robert Ayers. :flame:

[Lonestar]

You do not pay top money for a guy that is deficent in two thirds og his game.
There are other areas to be addressesd first.

If our DL does not stop the run then HE will rarly be on the field. Bacuse he has not shown he can help in that area.

Let's pay someon that may only see the field on 3rd and longs, about 10% of the salary budget.that equates to about 25 snaps a games at best.


Yep that makes complete fiducary sense
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[LordTrychon]

Until I've heard that Dumervil has threatened holding out for top money, I don't think anyone's sure that it's what he's asking. The guy's been nothing but classy and a team player, and he's very intelligent.

I personally say 'Pay the Man' and it doesn't necessarily mean 'Pay that man Freeney money!'

I want him to be on my team and I want him extended. I want the team and him to come to a mutual agreement that is for the betterment of both.

The guy's done nothing wrong and some people are ready to show him the door because they're worried we'll pay him too much.

[claymore]

Pay him RFA money. If he doesnt sign his tender then eff him. We got him in 2010, and 2011 on the cheap, lets take advantage of it.

[Northman]

You do not pay top money for a guy that is deficent in two thirds og his game.
There are other areas to be addressesd first.

If our DL does not stop the run then HE will rarly be on the field. Bacuse he has not shown he can help in that area.

Let's pay someon that may only see the field on 3rd and longs, about 10% of the salary budget.that equates to about 25 snaps a games at best.


Yep that makes complete fiducary sense
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First off, show me ANY article where Doom is asking for a Gazillion dollars? Ill wait.

Secondly, what other areas need to be addressed? According to some of you bozo's Martindale will be just fine taking over for Nolan so what are you afraid of? :lol:

[Northman]

Until I've heard that Dumervil has threatened holding out for top money, I don't think anyone's sure that it's what he's asking. The guy's been nothing but classy and a team player, and he's very intelligent.

I personally say 'Pay the Man' and it doesn't necessarily mean 'Pay that man Freeney money!'

I want him to be on my team and I want him extended. I want the team and him to come to a mutual agreement that is for the betterment of both.

The guy's done nothing wrong and some people are ready to show him the door because they're worried we'll pay him too much.

Exactly. Thank you.

[TXBRONC]

Robert Ayers. :flame:

The hope is that he will develop into on but he's not there just yet.

[Lonestar]

Is/was there real reason for not showing up to OTA or not practicing with the team for that matter not sigining his tender. OTHER than to say he wanted big money
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[Northman]

Is/was there real reason for not showing up to OTA or not practicing with the team for that matter not sigining his tender. OTHER than to say he wanted big money
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Link?

[honz]

It probably has more to do with wanting a multi-year guaranteed contract than it does with wanting Demarcus Ware money. He obviously wants to be paid, but it doesn't necessarily mean he wants a record breaking deal.

[rcsodak]

Until he becomes more than pass rusher HE does NOT deserve HUGE money.

That is a fact.

If he wants to sign a contract that is incentive laden that he can EARN it by improving his run stopping and pass coverage GREAT but signing him to a huge guaranteed contract without them is stupid on the part of the GM, and Owner.

One trick ponies are not something that we should be doing at this point.

As for the rest of the locker room they will get it that unless the are a complete packag they will be paid comensurate with their abilities. Like it should be.

The worst case senario is he is a Franchise player next year.

Actually he gota huge raise this year going from about 500K to 3.8 mil or so. About a 700% raise IIRC.

Is he worth more perhaps to someone else but as a pass rusher only not with my money.
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Until we see the new CBA, jr, we don't know if there WILL be a Franchise or Transition Tag.

And the way alot of teams are just doing 1yr deals, I'd be surprised if teams didn't completely retool next year.

[rcsodak]

A-*******-men.

Who else is there that can rush the passer? Yep, no one. The dude isnt a malcontent. The guy has had to play various positions since he came into the league and not bitched about it. Pay the man. Enough with the whiney BS about being a one trick pony. He hasnt had the luxury to stay in one spot long enough to get any chemistry at one position.

Well, guess what. This year will be year 2 of him at the same position, and gaining that "chemistry at one position".

I say let him prove last year wasn't an anomaly and then go from there. Just like they're doing with C Johnson in Tenn. PROVE you can do it again, THEN we'll talk.



It probably has more to do with wanting a multi-year guaranteed contract than it does with wanting Demarcus Ware money. He obviously wants to be paid, but it doesn't necessarily mean he wants a record breaking deal.
Purely speculative, but equally as probable.

[Northman]

Well, guess what. This year will be year 2 of him at the same position, and gaining that "chemistry at one position".

I say let him prove last year wasn't an anomaly and then go from there. Just like they're doing with C Johnson in Tenn. PROVE you can do it again, THEN we'll talk.


With Doom, i can understand the arguement. With Johnson Tenn are morons. In the entire history of the NFL only 8 RB's have ever gone over 2,000 yds in a single season and Chris is one of them. He also had over 1,200 yds in his rookie campaign. I would say he has already proved his worth.

[dogfish]

why does everyone act like doom only had one good year?

you guys miss the 12.5 sacks back in '07 or something?

[Northman]

why does everyone act like doom only had one good year?

you guys miss the 12.5 sacks back in '07 or something?

And its not like the guys who are getting paid big bucks on other teams play with slouches around them either. :lol:

[Lonestar]

And he all but disappeared in 08.

Look I think he is a great talent as a Pass rusher and hopefully he can do more than that. I if he can give him major buck.

As for franchise tags. That will not change there will be some previso like that in the next CBA. The owners will not allow that to go away. 0 know the players hate it BUT that only affects 32 players a year. With 52 on each team not affected. Odds are to great against it leaving.

If he was going to accept a lower contract they would have knocked one out be now.

So that means he or his agent is looking for Ware type money.
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[BigBroncLove]

And he all but disappeared in 08.

Look I think he is a great talent as a Pass rusher and hopefully he can do more than that. I if he can give him major buck.

As for franchise tags. That will not change there will be some previso like that in the next CBA. The owners will not allow that to go away. 0 know the players hate it BUT that only affects 32 players a year. With 52 on each team not affected. Odds are to great against it leaving.

If he was going to accept a lower contract they would have knocked one out be now.

So that means he or his agent is looking for Ware type money.
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I don't think we can make conclusions about what is going on behind closed doors between the Broncos and Dumervil and/or his agent based upon the fact no deal has been hammered out by the start of OTA's.

Most analysts believe this is when any negotiating tactics by players with RFA's will heat up since they will be able to sit out mini-camps with little to no financial repercussions and use it as a negotiating tactic. If nothing gets hammered out by training camp and Dumervil still hasn't signed his tender then I think its fair to speculate, but even then it could be equally likely that the Broncos are being hard headed about the uncertainty of next year (or that it would send mixed messages to the other RFA's if they gave Doom and contract and not Kuper for example who also earned one) then it is that Doom wants to much money. Whatever is happening if Dumervil shows up to OTA's without both having a contract or signing his RFA tender its another show of his strong character and team first mentality.

[Slick]

Until he becomes more than pass rusher HE does NOT deserve HUGE money.

That is a fact.

If he wants to sign a contract that is incentive laden that he can EARN it by improving his run stopping and pass coverage GREAT but signing him to a huge guaranteed contract without them is stupid on the part of the GM, and Owner.

One trick ponies are not something that we should be doing at this point.

As for the rest of the locker room they will get it that unless the are a complete packag they will be paid comensurate with their abilities. Like it should be.

The worst case senario is he is a Franchise player next year.

Actually he gota huge raise this year going from about 500K to 3.8 mil or so. About a 700% raise IIRC.

Is he worth more perhaps to someone else but as a pass rusher only not with my money.
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If our pass rush hadn't been so terrible for so long I'd agree. Well, I do agree in the fact that he shouldn't receive any record setting deal, but he's definitely earned a bigger payday IMO.

[Slick]

why does everyone act like doom only had one good year?

you guys miss the 12.5 sacks back in '07 or something?

He beats the other teams best offensive lineman on a regular basis. More than I can say for anyone rushing the passer in Denver over the last 15-20 years.

[Italianmobstr7]

Hope they get a long term contract worked out with Dumervil. Would be nice to have him locked up for a few years.

[dogfish]

If he was going to accept a lower contract they would have knocked one out be now.

So that means he or his agent is looking for Ware type money.
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oh it does?

well show me the lower deal that we offered him and he refused, then. . .

[Bosco]

And he all but disappeared in 08.

http://broncotalk.net/wordpress/wp-content/uploads/2008/12/bobslowik.jpg

[TXBRONC]

Dumervil was injured for part of the '08 season. It's disingenuous to just look past that.

[Lonestar]

Would anyone on this forum want to step up to the plate and give Pat a guarantee by signing the title to their house to assure that Doom is worth big bucks.

No I thought not it is easy to spend other folks money.

He has not shown he is anything but a one trick pony period.

MY point earlier was how can he think he is worth more than. A 700% raise for the coming year

Has he gotten better at dropping into coverage or stopped the running game since he last played.

OR is it the 17 sachs he got last year just more than one a game BTW and considering IIRC he got 4 or more in one game against a bottom feeder at that.

Look I think he should make more than he did but being offered IIRC 3.8 mil is not enough then he needs to up his game and fix his laibilties in the run game and pass coverage.

Then we can talke about a higher wage scale until then get into camps and play nice.

Undoubtably his agent told him to stay away until he got more than he is supposed to make this comming year.
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[Shazam!]

Doom gets a pass from me for 2008. You could put LT in his prime in Denver then and he'd be embarassed being on the same field as the 2008 Broncos defense.

Not to mention he is much better utilized now.

Give him some money Josh.

[Poet]

You gotta pay this man. He's shown that he can produce in two different systems.

Yeah, he is a one dimensional player. His one dimension is the same dimension that is the most important one for defense, pass rushing.

He's never had any issues with the the coaches or the law. He's kept his mouth shut and appears to be a quality person.

There comes a point where you need to have some guys set in stone, you know, faces of the defense or what not.

He would be a good one.

[dogfish]

You gotta pay this man. He's shown that he can produce in two different systems.

Yeah, he is a one dimensional player. His one dimension is the same dimension that is the most important one for defense, pass rushing.

He's never had any issues with the the coaches or the law. He's kept his mouth shut and appears to be a quality person.

There comes a point where you need to have some guys set in stone, you know, faces of the defense or what not.

He would be a good one.

king, i'd buy you a gigantic bacon cheeseburger for this post if i could. . . .


why is it that the bengals fan can see all this so clearly, and most of the fans of our own team don't seem to think the guy is worth that much?

everyone cries their eyes out over guys who aren't team players and don't want to be here and blah blah blah. . . and this guy is pretty much the epitome of everything you want in a player in terms of intangibles, AND he's an all-pro performer on the field, and people are worried about what we're going to pay him. . .

in an uncapped year, of course, with no great reason to believe the cap will ever come back. . .

i mean, shit. . . we pay dan graham one of the three highest salaries in the league for the position, and nobody ever says a damn word about it. . . the guy gets paid like TEs that are putting up three times as many yards and five to ten times as many TDs, where's the indignation about him being overpaid?

he's just a blocking TE, right? all he does is block. . . :rolleyes:

also, the complaints about doom not being good in coverage make me laugh. . . ****'s sakes, people, just exactly how polished did you think he was going to be his FIRST stinkin' year playing standing up? and why does everyone seem to assume that a smart, highly-motivated, hard working guy who's only been in the league four years can't or won't improve his second year playing the position?

besides which. . . he's really good at, you know-- rushing the passer. . . and he's the only guy we have who's any good at it. . . tell me again how much we want him dropping in coverage? yea, screw that-- screw it where clay would. . . JMFMCD and martindale have both said they intend to be aggressive on defense-- and nothing says aggressive like dropping your best pass rusher into coverage a bunch. . .

good coaches scheme to the strengths of their impact players, and doom should be screaming off the edge as much as possible. . .

of course, before anyone feels the need to point out the obvious, i understand that he's going to have to cover sometimes, and that you have to mix it up to keep the offense off balance. . . but the majority of the snaps most games, i don't want him dropping into coverage unless the offense forces us into it with a formation shift or something. . .

[dogfish]

OR is it the 17 sachs he got last year just more than one a game BTW and considering IIRC he got 4 or more in one game against a bottom feeder at that.


and i love how JR, in his inimitable fashion, has to get the little dig in. . . "just more than one a game, BTW". . . wow, only one a game-- sure doesn't sound like much when ya put it like that, does it?

it's not like those 17 sacks were enough to lead the league, OR set the franchise record, or anything like that. . .

:rolleyes:

it was better than dwight freeney, demarcus ware, james harrison, lamarr woodley, julius peppers, robert mathis, mario williams, or. . . you get the picture. . . but hey, i'm sure all of those guys got ALL of their sacks against clady, michael roos or d'brickashaw ferguson-- no cheapies for any of those guys! and chris johnson got all 2,000 of his yards against top-five run defenses. . .

hey, makes at least as good an argument as clay's contention that TDs shouldn't count when the wide receiver is too open. . . :lol::frusty:

[TXBRONC]

king, i'd buy you a gigantic bacon cheeseburger for this post if i could. . . .


why is it that the bengals fan can see all this so clearly, and most of the fans of our own team don't seem to think the guy is worth that much?

everyone cries their eyes out over guys who aren't team players and don't want to be here and blah blah blah. . . and this guy is pretty much the epitome of everything you want in a player in terms of intangibles, AND he's an all-pro performer on the field, and people are worried about what we're going to pay him. . .

in an uncapped year, of course, with no great reason to believe the cap will ever come back. . .

i mean, shit. . . we pay dan graham one of the three highest salaries in the league for the position, and nobody ever says a damn word about it. . . the guy gets paid like TEs that are putting up three times as many yards and five to ten times as many TDs, where's the indignation about him being overpaid?

he's just a blocking TE, right? all he does is block. . . :rolleyes:

also, the complaints about doom not being good in coverage make me laugh. . . ****'s sakes, people, just exactly how polished did you think he was going to be his FIRST stinkin' year playing standing up? and why does everyone seem to assume that a smart, highly-motivated, hard working guy who's only been in the league four years can't or won't improve his second year playing the position?

besides which. . . he's really good at, you know-- rushing the passer. . . and he's the only guy we have who's any good at it. . . tell me again how much we want him dropping in coverage? yea, screw that-- screw it where clay would. . . JMFMCD and martindale have both said they intend to be aggressive on defense-- and nothing says aggressive like dropping your best pass rusher into coverage a bunch. . .

good coaches scheme to the strengths of their impact players, and doom should be screaming off the edge as much as possible. . .

of course, before anyone feels the need to point out the obvious, i understand that he's going to have to cover sometimes, and that you have to mix it up to keep the offense off balance. . . but the majority of the snaps most games, i don't want him dropping into coverage unless the offense forces us into it with a formation shift or something. . .

Crying about (not you btw) Dumervil being weak in coverage when his freakin job was to rush the passer is absurd. I would love for anyone whose complaining about Dumervil being a one trick pony to tell me how many other players on the defense had more than 5 sacks?

Edit: Averaging one sack per game isn't bad that's 16 for a season. It makes no sense to criticize that kind of average.

[Lonestar]

and i love how JR, in his inimitable fashion, has to get the little dig in. . . "just more than one a game, BTW". . . wow, only one a game-- sure doesn't sound like much when ya put it like that, does it?

it's not like those 17 sacks were enough to lead the league, OR set the franchise record, or anything like that. . .

:rolleyes:

it was better than dwight freeney, demarcus ware, james harrison, lamarr woodley, julius peppers, robert mathis, mario williams, or. . . you get the picture. . . but hey, i'm sure all of those guys got ALL of their sacks against clady, michael roos or d'brickashaw ferguson-- no cheapies for any of those guys! and chris johnson got all 2,000 of his yards against top-five run defenses. . .

hey, makes at least as good an argument as clay's contention that TDs shouldn't count when the wide receiver is too open. . . :lol::frusty:

Not a dig merely a fact doom got ONe sack a average. Is that worth about $500,000 each IF he were to get the same as last year. Considering. H did it for the whole year last year for 500K.

Look folks Doom should be paid BUT not as the highest paid OLB in the game as ALL of those like merriman also can cover and play the run.

Once he masters that pay him. Until he can prove last year was not an anamoly and he can do something beyond rush the passer no issuses

Let him sign an incntive laden contract based on pass coverage and run stopping abilities then IF he can master it he gets all that he can.

He is not all that important to the grand scheme of it all nice to have but IF they have to spend 9 mil for him I'd rather have 2 at 4.5 or 3 at 3 mil. That are not just chasing records and pro bowls
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[Northman]

Not a dig merely a fact doom got ONe sack a average. Is that worth about $500,000 each IF he were to get the same as last year. Considering. H did it for the whole year last year for 500K.

Look folks Doom should be paid BUT not as the highest paid OLB in the game as ALL of those like merriman also can cover and play the run.

Once he masters that pay him. Until he can prove last year was not an anamoly and he can do something beyond rush the passer no issuses

Let him sign an incntive laden contract based on pass coverage and run stopping abilities then IF he can master it he gets all that he can.

He is not all that important to the grand scheme of it all nice to have but IF they have to spend 9 mil for him I'd rather have 2 at 4.5 or 3 at 3 mil. That are not just chasing records and pro bowls
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Once again, can you provide me with a link to prove he is asking for Ware money.

[Tned]

You gotta pay this man. He's shown that he can produce in two different systems.

Yeah, he is a one dimensional player. His one dimension is the same dimension that is the most important one for defense, pass rushing.

He's never had any issues with the the coaches or the law. He's kept his mouth shut and appears to be a quality person.

There comes a point where you need to have some guys set in stone, you know, faces of the defense or what not.

He would be a good one.

Sometimes we get caught up in that whole "forest / trees" syndrome and don't realize that a team actually needs talented people who can make plays, if there is going to be any shot of winning. Yes, every player has his flaws, weaknesses, and what not, but if we keep holding out for the 'perfect' player before signing them long term (you know, the Lonnie Paxtons of the world), then we are going to keep rotating through players and not get back on the winning track.

[TXBRONC]

Once again, can you provide me with a link to prove he is asking for Ware money.

There isn't one.

[Edmonton Bronco Fan]

I agree with the first reply in this thread.

Pay the man!

[Tned]

Would anyone on this forum want to step up to the plate and give Pat a guarantee by signing the title to their house to assure that Doom is worth big bucks.

No I thought not it is easy to spend other folks money.


If I could also participate in upside profits if he does well, sure. Structure the deal, and I'll sign it.

[Tned]

Once again, can you provide me with a link to prove he is asking for Ware money.

I might have missed it, but I don't remember ever seeing anything from his or his agent about how much money he wants.

[Lonestar]

Once again, can you provide me with a link to prove he is asking for Ware money.

Are you oblivious to the fact he stayed away from camp and did not sign his contract because 3.8 is not enough. He is trying to make a statement that he wants MORE much MORE.

If what he is making enough WHY would he stay away. Do you think that he would be making a statement if he was going to settle for say 4.5 or 6 a year.

Think about it. He is holding/staying away because he wants a lot more.

Xman is not going to sign him this year. For more if he can get him for less and at worse franchise him next year.

There will be a franchise with a new CBA or he will still be a RFA if they do not get a NEW CBA signed.

NONE of the RFA are getting huge contracts. Why are we sweating it. He is ours for another two seasons at least.

Yes he is a great player good person, good lockeroom guy. But not worth the extra. Money IMO it would take to get him for an additional 2 years we would get over what we have him for now. Not worth a 30 mil guaranteed not to me.
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[Poet]

There are a lot of LB's who rack up sacks and suck in coverage.

Joey Porter, who has been a great pass rusher for his career, is very, very bland in coverage.

DeMarcus Ware, who for my money is a top three defensive player, has only recently gone from average to anything better than average in coverage.

James Harrison is not great in coverage. Yes, I understand that he has football smarts and that lead to him recognizing a play that had killed them earlier in the year, which then lead to that end of half touchdown in the SB, but he's not great or even good in coverage either.

Woodley, the other beast pass rushing LB in Pittsburgh is very bland in coverage as well.

There is a chance that any signing can backfire. There's also a chance that Dumervil ends up leaving at some point and continues to progress.

Good to great players are going to get paid big bucks. It is literally impossible to field a winning team without some guys having fat bank accounts. It's the nature of the NFL - everyone is making a ton of money, and the guys who produce are going to make more - you can't really do anything about it.

[TXBRONC]

There are a lot of LB's who rack up sacks and suck in coverage.

Joey Porter, who has been a great pass rusher for his career, is very, very bland in coverage.

DeMarcus Ware, who for my money is a top three defensive player, has only recently gone from average to anything better than average in coverage.

James Harrison is not great in coverage. Yes, I understand that he has football smarts and that lead to him recognizing a play that had killed them earlier in the year, which then lead to that end of half touchdown in the SB, but he's not great or even good in coverage either.

Woodley, the other beast pass rushing LB in Pittsburgh is very bland in coverage as well.

There is a chance that any signing can backfire. There's also a chance that Dumervil ends up leaving at some point and continues to progress.

Good to great players are going to get paid big bucks. It is literally impossible to field a winning team without some guys having fat bank accounts. It's the nature of the NFL - everyone is making a ton of money, and the guys who produce are going to make more - you can't really do anything about it.

Woodley and Harrison are excellent pass rushers so it doesn't make much sense to put them in pass coverage very much does it?

[Poet]

Woodley and Harrison are excellent pass rushers so it doesn't make much sense to put them in pass coverage very much does it?

LeBeau is creative in his schemes. Sometimes you expect the pass rush and all of a sudden you're looking for the pass rushers that you normally expect and then everyone's covered......

But, Harrison didn't get that massive contract extension because you could stick him on a TE and blanket him in coverage.

[TXBRONC]

LeBeau is creative in his schemes. Sometimes you expect the pass rush and all of a sudden you're looking for the pass rushers that you normally expect and then everyone's covered......

But, Harrison didn't get that massive contract extension because you could stick him on a TE and blanket him in coverage.

I know LeBeau is creative but my point is that generally those two guys are rushing the quarterback more time than they are dropped into coverage.

[Poet]

I know LeBeau is creative but my point is that generally those two guys are rushing the quarterback more time than they are dropped into coverage.

I know and agree.

[TXBRONC]

I know and agree.

:salute: :beer:

[dogfish]

Not a dig merely a fact doom got ONe sack a average. Is that worth about $500,000 each IF he were to get the same as last year. Considering. H did it for the whole year last year for 500K.

Look folks Doom should be paid BUT not as the highest paid OLB in the game as ALL of those like merriman also can cover and play the run.

what are you talking about? merriman sucks, he's nothing close to the same player without the roids and on a bum knee. . . san diego tried to trade him during the draft, he's still on the block, and no takers. . .



Once he masters that pay him. Until he can prove last year was not an anamoly and he can do something beyond rush the passer no issuses

no. . . last season WAS the proof-- proved that the twenty sacks he got his first two seasons weren't an anomoly. . . ;)



Let him sign an incntive laden contract based on pass coverage and run stopping abilities then IF he can master it he gets all that he can.

and where in the world is this going to happen-- fantasyland??

:spit: :rofl:

i wish i could live in a world where 26-year-old all-pros sign incentive laden deals, because it most certainly doesn't happen in the one we live in. . .



He is not all that important to the grand scheme of it all nice to have but IF they have to spend 9 mil for him I'd rather have 2 at 4.5 or 3 at 3 mil. That are not just chasing records and pro bowls


yea, having a pass rush is so vastly overrated. . .

also, your feeble attempt to insinuate that he's "chasing pro bowls" is a steaming pile of dogshit-- don't think you're gonna get away with that! this kid has never been ANYTHING but the consummate team player, ask the coaching staff or his teammates if you don't believe me. . . suggesting that he's a glory hound who's more worried about stats is a joke. . .

[Tned]

and where in the world is this going to happen-- fantasyland??

:spit: :rofl:

i wish i could live in a world where 26-year-old all-pros sign incentive laden deals, because it most certainly doesn't happen in the one we live in. . .


I know, it was the same with the talk about Marshall signing a no up front, no guaranteed, incentive laden contract.

This isn't Madden or some other Fantasy or play football, average pros don't sign contracts without guaranteed and only based on incentives, so there is no way in hell that guys that lead the league in sacks or receptions are going to. :BigAssJoke:

[dogfish]

Are you oblivious to the fact he stayed away from camp and did not sign his contract because 3.8 is not enough. He is trying to make a statement that he wants MORE much MORE.

If what he is making enough WHY would he stay away. Do you think that he would be making a statement if he was going to settle for say 4.5 or 6 a year.

Think about it. He is holding/staying away because he wants a lot more.

Xman is not going to sign him this year. For more if he can get him for less and at worse franchise him next year.

There will be a franchise with a new CBA or he will still be a RFA if they do not get a NEW CBA signed.

NONE of the RFA are getting huge contracts. Why are we sweating it. He is ours for another two seasons at least.

Yes he is a great player good person, good lockeroom guy. But not worth the extra. Money IMO it would take to get him for an additional 2 years we would get over what we have him for now. Not worth a 30 mil guaranteed not to me.
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you're wrong that none of the RFAs are getting deals-- demeco ryans and pat willis just signed big extensions, and some other guys have as well. . . the jets are working on an extension for darrelle revis, who's still under his rookie contract and hasn't even reached restricted free agency yet. . .

doom hasn't signed his tender because he wants the security of a multi-year deal, just like anyone else. . . you can speculate all you want, but neither you, nor i nor anyone else outside of his agent and the broncos FO know what he's asking for. . . although, it's not crazy to assume that he does want a big deal-- that's kinda what happens when you have an all-pro season. . . that's the way it works. . . all-pros DON'T play for chump change in this league, no matter how much fans think they should. . .

he's not doing anything that anyone else wouldn't in his position, and i'm not going to listen to somebody villify him over it. . . he's done everything the right way-- earned his payday on the field, and has never said a thing about it in the media. . .

we all wondered who you would make your next whipping boy after marshall left, and it makes me sick that you've apparently decided to use a guy who's not only one of our best players, but one of the team's best people. . . .

[Lonestar]

There are a lot of LB's who rack up sacks and suck in coverage.

Joey Porter, who has been a great pass rusher for his career, is very, very bland in coverage.

DeMarcus Ware, who for my money is a top three defensive player, has only recently gone from average to anything better than average in coverage.

James Harrison is not great in coverage. Yes, I understand that he has football smarts and that lead to him recognizing a play that had killed them earlier in the year, which then lead to that end of half touchdown in the SB, but he's not great or even good in coverage either.

Woodley, the other beast pass rushing LB in Pittsburgh is very bland in coverage as well.

There is a chance that any signing can backfire. There's also a chance that Dumervil ends up leaving at some point and continues to progress.

Good to great players are going to get paid big bucks. It is literally impossible to field a winning team without some guys having fat bank accounts. It's the nature of the NFL - everyone is making a ton of money, and the guys who produce are going to make more - you can't really do anything about it.

You list other players that do something Besides rush the passer and they are as ggod or better than Doom is

Look he is every in a player that you could want great attitude, work ethicn leader in the locker room. And not an issuse off the field.

BUT he is not worth elite money betting on the come line without being JUST and pass rusher. Improve one of those other areas like being able to stop the run then he is worth more than a 3.8 this coming years money.

But from a strictly MONEY POV we can keep him this year and MOST likely the next TWO years as a Franchise player not what I'd lik to do

BUT it is leverage in negieotating a contract.

No sense paying some one a 30 million guarantee if you do not have to. BY then he is getting past his prime and we should have his replacment already in the pipeline ready to go.
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[LordTrychon]

God, I'm glad you don't work in the FO.

Although that's what it feels like sometimes...

Uh oh... he's talented... but he's not won 5 superbowls for us... so why would we pay him?

Why on earth would a guy like Dumervil who fights guys nearly twice his size (and wins) for a living want a multiple year contract with some guaranteed money, I wonder? The sort of contract that every player plays to earn.

If only Doom had done something to earn it. :tsk:

[Lonestar]

what are you talking about? merriman sucks, he's nothing close to the same player without the roids and on a bum knee. . . san diego tried to trade him during the draft, he's still on the block, and no takers. . .




no. . . last season WAS the proof-- proved that the twenty sacks he got his first two seasons weren't an anomoly. . . ;)




and where in the world is this going to happen-- fantasyland??

:spit: :rofl:

i wish i could live in a world where 26-year-old all-pros sign incentive laden deals, because it most certainly doesn't happen in the one we live in. . .




yea, having a pass rush is so vastly overrated. . .

also, your feeble attempt to insinuate that he's "chasing pro bowls" is a steaming pile of dogshit-- don't think you're gonna get away with that! this kid has never been ANYTHING but the consummate team player, ask the coaching staff or his teammates if you don't believe me. . . suggesting that he's a glory hound who's more worried about stats is a joke. . .

I agree the kid is a great kid. Not an issue with that

I'm just telling you how I feel about contracts. Call me nuts but. He is not going anywhere nor is he getting a gazillion dollar contract he is not negioatating from a position of power.

And yes he MAY be able to get a few MIL more elsewhere but he will sign for less because he sees where this team is going and has a better chance of getting a ring here than in say CLE, BUF or CIN.

Watch and see.
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[Tempus Fugit]

why is it that the bengals fan can see all this so clearly, and most of the fans of our own team don't seem to think the guy is worth that much?

Since nobody knows what he's asking, the general question isn't all that relevant. Dumervil's not worth Ware money but, other than that and without an actually baseline figure, everyone's just spinning their wheels on the topic.


everyone cries their eyes out over guys who aren't team players and don't want to be here and blah blah blah. . . and this guy is pretty much the epitome of everything you want in a player in terms of intangibles, AND he's an all-pro performer on the field, and people are worried about what we're going to pay him. . .

in an uncapped year, of course, with no great reason to believe the cap will ever come back. . .

It's a league with a salary cap. And there will definitely be a return to the cap. Dumervil is just one of many players learning about life without that cap, and they aren't happy with what that life is bringing them.


i mean, shit. . . we pay dan graham one of the three highest salaries in the league for the position, and nobody ever says a damn word about it. . . the guy gets paid like TEs that are putting up three times as many yards and five to ten times as many TDs, where's the indignation about him being overpaid?

he's just a blocking TE, right? all he does is block. . . :rolleyes:

Graham is the primary blocking tight end and the secondary receiving tight end. He's probably the best blocking tight end in the game, and he's averaged 30 catches a season in the past 2 years on top of that. I'm not sure why you'd try arguing Graham v. Dumervil when the moneys involved for the positions are so drastically different (it was $8.3 million to franchise a linebacker in 2009 vs $4.5 million to franchise a tight end) but, if that's the example you're going to point to, Graham's the more versatile player.


also, the complaints about doom not being good in coverage make me laugh. . . ****'s sakes, people, just exactly how polished did you think he was going to be his FIRST stinkin' year playing standing up? and why does everyone seem to assume that a smart, highly-motivated, hard working guy who's only been in the league four years can't or won't improve his second year playing the position?

besides which. . . he's really good at, you know-- rushing the passer. . . and he's the only guy we have who's any good at it. . . tell me again how much we want him dropping in coverage? yea, screw that-- screw it where clay would. . . JMFMCD and martindale have both said they intend to be aggressive on defense-- and nothing says aggressive like dropping your best pass rusher into coverage a bunch. . .

There are 3 aspects to a linebacker's game, and Dumervil is subpar at 2 of them. He can rush the passer, but he's a liability in coverage and against the run.



good coaches scheme to the strengths of their impact players, and doom should be screaming off the edge as much as possible. . .

of course, before anyone feels the need to point out the obvious, i understand that he's going to have to cover sometimes, and that you have to mix it up to keep the offense off balance. . . but the majority of the snaps most games, i don't want him dropping into coverage unless the offense forces us into it with a formation shift or something. . .[/QUOTE]

If he's "screaming off the edge as much as possible", you've limited your defense from a scheme perspective. You're asking the Broncos to shell out the big OLB coin for a player that requires you to protect him in 2 phases of the game and to adjust your entire scheme in order to keep him as a valuable cog in the defense. That's not the way Parcells/Belichick tree coaches tend to work with limited players. If McDaniels uses the purse strings the way Belichick does in New England, Dumervil's going to have to take a pretty team friendly deal if he wants to stary in Denver.

[Lonestar]

you're wrong that none of the RFAs are getting deals-- demeco ryans and pat willis just signed big extensions, and some other guys have as well. . . the jets are working on an extension for darrelle revis, who's still under his rookie contract and hasn't even reached restricted free agency yet. . .

doom hasn't signed his tender because he wants the security of a multi-year deal, just like anyone else. . . you can speculate all you want, but neither you, nor i nor anyone else outside of his agent and the broncos FO know what he's asking for. . . although, it's not crazy to assume that he does want a big deal-- that's kinda what happens when you have an all-pro season. . . that's the way it works. . . all-pros DON'T play for chump change in this league, no matter how much fans think they should. . .

he's not doing anything that anyone else wouldn't in his position, and i'm not going to listen to somebody villify him over it. . . he's done everything the right way-- earned his payday on the field, and has never said a thing about it in the media. . .

we all wondered who you would make your next whipping boy after marshall left, and it makes me sick that you've apparently decided to use a guy who's not only one of our best players, but one of the team's best people. . . .

Show me where I'm wrong.

He does one thing good. Pass rush but then some of those nu$ber were against bottom feeders also.

I'm not in a place to research it so will not debate numbers by opponent.I'll bet those multi sack games were not against top teams.

BUT there is NO player not at the QB spot that is worth 9 mil a year and that includes champ and Graham. Period.
NO player to me is worth near ten per cent of the CAP unless they earn it via incentives

I would never pay a Bruce Smith 9 mil flat salary.

We saw what happened with price and I'm not remotely comparing this KID with a lazy price because he is on the opposite end of that ethic spectrum.

BUT I would not ever pay that kind of money to someone that is nota FQB.
I believe there are more guys out there that have a more complete game than he does and can be had had for less money.

Sorry if I piss off a lot of folks that think we have a talent drain because in my eyes everyone is replaceable and for the most part for lots less money than they may get in NYC or OAK if the guys is fast enough.

IMO we are ahead talent wise today than we have been in nearly a decade. Solid TEAM players at all spots. Even if we are either very young or somewhat old at those spots.

Now we are in building depth mode and will be going less for particular slots in the draft than we have been in since 05 or so.
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[honz]

Looks like JR found his new whipping boy! :lol:

[Tempus Fugit]

Show me where I'm wrong.

He does one thing good. Pass rush but then some of those nu$ber were against bottom feeders also.

I'm not in a place to research it so will not debate numbers by opponent.I'll bet those multi sack games were not against top teams.

BUT there is NO player not at the QB spot that is worth 9 mil a year and that includes champ and Graham. Period.
NO player to me is worth near ten per cent of the CAP unless they earn it via incentives

I would never pay a Bruce Smith 9 mil flat salary.

We saw what happened with price and I'm not remotely comparing this KID with a lazy price because he is on the opposite end of that ethic spectrum.

BUT I would not ever pay that kind of money to someone that is nota FQB.
I believe there are more guys out there that have a more complete game than he does and can be had had for less money.

Sorry if I piss off a lot of folks that think we have a talent drain because in my eyes everyone is replaceable and for the most part for lots less money than they may get in NYC or OAK if the guys is fast enough.

IMO we are ahead talent wise today than we have been in nearly a decade. Solid TEAM players at all spots. Even if we are either very young or somewhat old at those spots.

Now we are in building depth mode and will be going less for particular slots in the draft than we have been in since 05 or so.
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Not to attack all your arguments, but to focus on your sacks argument... Take a look at a guy Like Jared Allen, and you'll notice that he racks up a fair amount of his sacks against the dregs of the league. That's what's going to happen with most pass rushers. When they face top O-linemen and top QBs, their impact is more likely to be QB pressures/hurries/hits than it is to be sacks.

[Lonestar]

Since nobody knows what he's asking, the general question isn't all that relevant. Dumervil's not worth Ware money but, other than that and without an actually baseline figure, everyone's just spinning their wheels on the topic.



It's a league with a salary cap. And there will definitely be a return to the cap. Dumervil is just one of many players learning about life without that cap, and they aren't happy with what that life is bringing them.



Graham is the primary blocking tight end and the secondary receiving tight end. He's probably the best blocking tight end in the game, and he's averaged 30 catches a season in the past 2 years on top of that. I'm not sure why you'd try arguing Graham v. Dumervil when the moneys involved for the positions are so drastically different (it was $8.3 million to franchise a linebacker in 2009 vs $4.5 million to franchise a tight end) but, if that's the example you're going to point to, Graham's the more versatile player.



There are 3 aspects to a linebacker's game, and Dumervil is subpar at 2 of them. He can rush the passer, but he's a liability in coverage and against the run.




of course, before anyone feels the need to point out the obvious, i understand that he's going to have to cover sometimes, and that you have to mix it up to keep the offense off balance. . . but the majority of the snaps most games, i don't want him dropping into coverage unless the offense forces us into it with a formation shift or something. . .

If he's "screaming off the edge as much as possible", you've limited your defense from a scheme perspective. You're asking the Broncos to shell out the big OLB coin for a player that requires you to protect him in 2 phases of the game and to adjust your entire scheme in order to keep him as a valuable cog in the defense. That's not the way Parcells/Belichick tree coaches tend to work with limited players. If McDaniels uses the purse strings the way Belichick does in New England, Dumervil's going to have to take a pretty team friendly deal if he wants to stary in Denver.[/QUOTE]

At last some one else not getting emotional about a (one trick pony as we speak) and can see the forest from the trees.
If he wants more money. Let him earn it via incentives. Everyone wins that way.
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[Tempus Fugit]

At last some one else not getting emotional about a (one trick pony as we speak) and can see the forest from the trees.
If he wants more money. Let him earn it via incentives. Everyone wins that way.
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As long as it's the right trick, a one-trick-pony can be a very valuable thing. In this case, however, Dumervil is going to have to accept that the team can decide to just keep him at the level he's been tendered if it chooses, and he'll have to accept a lower overall payout if he wants to increase his earnings in the immediate future. It's just the way of NFL contracts, especially for non-elite players.

[Lonestar]

Not to attack all your arguments, but to focus on your sacks argument... Take a look at a guy Like Jared Allen, and you'll notice that he racks up a fair amount of his sacks against the dregs of the league. That's what's going to happen with most pass rushers. When they face top O-linemen and top QBs, their impact is more likely to be QB pressures/hurries/hits than it is to be sacks.

Like I said I'm not in a position to debates indivduals I have been ina airport waings on connections for hours and doing this ona one screen Black berry

But lots of pass sackers do that. They also make other players around them better stats wise.

Not sure Doom does that. IIRC he got 4 or more sacks against the Chefs last year. BFD.
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[LoyalSoldier]

He does one thing good. Pass rush but then some of those nu$ber were against bottom feeders also.

Sorry, but so does everyone. Name me a good pass rusher who doesn't get sacks against bad teams. It's a silly argument.

Then again he also had sacks against Dallas, Philly, SD, Pitt, and NYG. So there is a couple right there against good teams.

[Tempus Fugit]

Like I said I'm not in a position to debates indivduals I have been ina airport waings on connections for hours and doing this ona one screen Black berry

But lots of pass sackers do that. They also make other players around them better stats wise.

Not sure Doom does that. IIRC he got 4 or more sacks against the Chefs last year. BFD.
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Jared Allen got 7.5 of his 16 sacks against the Packers last season. He's still among the NFL's elite pass rushers. That's why sacks can be such a misleading statistic.

[Northman]

Are you oblivious to the fact he stayed away from camp and did not sign his contract because 3.8 is not enough. He is trying to make a statement that he wants MORE much MORE.

According to who? you? Are you sitting in the meetings with him and his agent?


Think about it. He is holding/staying away because he wants a lot more. Perhaps. OR maybe he doesnt like the wording of his contract. Maybe he doesnt like the length. Maybe he's been told to wait until the CBA situation is resolved. Too many possibilities to come outright and say he wants to take the team to the cleaners.


Yes he is a great player good person, good lockeroom guy. But not worth the extra money Uh, yea he is. If you are going to pay guys like Champ and Tebow lots of dollars for not only their playmaking ability but charcter than you need to reward a guy like Doom who has done nothing but been the consumate team player both with the adversity in regards to his actual position and coaching changes he has had to deal with.

At the end of the day your talking out your ass about whether or not he wants "Ware" money. There can be any number of reasons why he hasnt signed a contract but until ive seen it in print im not going to automatically assume that he is trying to crush the salary cap as your suggesting.

[LordTrychon]

If he's staying away because he wants 'Ware money'... why is he coming back?

:confused:

Guess he no longer wants money. :salute:

[T.K.O.]

the all time single season sack leader of the denver broncos deserves more than a rookie qb or wr that's for damn sure !
hell we paid chris sims like 2.2 mil to stank up the field....elvis deserves at least double-triple that:salute:

[TXBRONC]

Sorry, but so does everyone. Name me a good pass rusher who doesn't get sacks against bad teams. It's a silly argument.

Then again he also had sacks against Dallas, Philly, SD, Pitt, and NYG. So there is a couple right there against good teams.

It would be troubling if Dumervil or for that matter any pass rusher couldn't get sacks against bad teams as well as good teams.

[TXBRONC]

If he's staying away because he wants 'Ware money'... why is he coming back?

:confused:

Guess he no longer wants money. :salute:

Money? I don't need no stinking money! ;)

[GGMoogly]

No D-lineman plays every down anymore. When he's in, he's effective. PAY THE MAN!

[Lonestar]

According to who? you? Are you sitting in the meetings with him and his agent?

Perhaps. OR maybe he doesnt like the wording of his contract. Maybe he doesnt like the length. Maybe he's been told to wait until the CBA situation is resolved. Too many possibilities to come outright and say he wants to take the team to the cleaners.

Uh, yea he is. If you are going to pay guys like Champ and Tebow lots of dollars for not only their playmaking ability but charcter than you need to reward a guy like Doom who has done nothing but been the consumate team player both with the adversity in regards to his actual position and coaching changes he has had to deal with.

At the end of the day your talking out your ass about whether or not he wants "Ware" money. There can be any number of reasons why he hasnt signed a contract but until ive seen it in print im not going to automatically assume that he is trying to crush the salary cap as your suggesting.

If he was not trying to. Make a statement he would have sigb the tender that was a7 fold increase over what he was making.

Plain and simple. If he did not want bigger money he would have signned and been in the camps there is NO other way to explain it.

Tenders are take it or leave it with no negiaotations till after the fact once yoiur in camp. Then you can work out a deal for the following years.
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[Lonestar]

the all time single season sack leader of the denver broncos deserves more than a rookie qb or wr that's for damn sure !
hell we paid chris sims like 2.2 mil to stank up the field....elvis deserves at least double-triple that:salute:

He would get 3.8 for signing the one year tender. Then they can talk real money.

He belongs to DEN till they release him and no longer place a Franchise TAG on him.

Time for his agent to explain it OR get it through his thick head for right now since NO ONE was willing to part with a 1&3 to make him a better offer than 3.8 he should prove to the Xman and Josh he is worth more.

Plain and simple he is a bronco for at least two more years if not longer unless they do away with the TAG (unlikely) in the next CBA. Night from HOU aboard SWA 1621.
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[LordTrychon]

If he was not trying to. Make a statement he would have sigb the tender that was a7 fold increase over what he was making.

Plain and simple. If he did not want bigger money he would have signned and been in the camps there is NO other way to explain it.

Tenders are take it or leave it with no negiaotations till after the fact once yoiur in camp. Then you can work out a deal for the following years.
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You don't think simply wanting a longer deal than one year could be a part of it?

Modest money and multiple years with some guaranteed money just in case.

If he was sooo upset and stayed away because of the money... why is he coming back now?

[Mr D]

Has nothing to do with the amount of sacks.

These are the problems with Dumervil

1. Pass rush specialist (meaning the other areas of his game are weak)

2. Not good against the run

3. Has trouble rushing the passer with hands off the ground. I believe all but 1 or 2 of his sacks came when we were in a 4 man front.

4. Not good in pass coverage


Now you want Ware/Willis type money?

Though Elvis did play on average 83% of the snaps in 2009, here is his ratings against the run...

http://profootballfocus.com/by_player.php?tab=by_player&season=2009&surn=dumervil&playerid=3071&group=6

1 game in the green against the worst or 2nd worst run offense in the league...Chargers... and 8 in the red.

His coverage?

7 passes were thrown his way and 5 were completed for an average of 14.4 yards. with a 104.5 QB rating when thrown his way.

Now compare him to a real 3-4 OLB, Woodley, Harrison, Ware...

James Harrison

http://profootballfocus.com/by_player.php?tab=by_player&season=2009&page=&surn=harrison&playerid=1251

Demarcus Ware

http://profootballfocus.com/by_player.php?tab=by_player&season=2009&surn=harrison&playerid=2228&group=

Lamarr Woodley

http://profootballfocus.com/by_player.php?tab=by_player&season=2009&surn=woodley&playerid=2228&group=

They all are great against the run AND pass.

Even Clay Matthews

http://profootballfocus.com/by_player.php?tab=by_player&season=2009&page=&surn=matthews&playerid=4949

Effective against the run AND the pass.

On top of that - they can all rush the passer with their hands off the ground.

[Lonestar]

You don't think simply wanting a longer deal than one year could be a part of it?

Modest money and multiple years with some guaranteed money just in case.

If he was sooo upset and stayed away because of the money... why is he coming back now?
He doe s not have any choice he belongs to the broncos UNTIL they trade him or he completes his 5th year under this CBA. OR longer IF they maintain a Franchise TAG which there is NO doubt in my mind they will have in the contract.

Even though the name players hate it , there simply are not enough of them to vote it off the plate so to speak ..1 in 53 players not eh squad.

What choice does he have set out a year then he is still our player since he has not yet got 5 years of active playing
OR come back and play under a tendered contract for a year .

IF he plays well and has learned to up his game then he will be a hot commodity and be worth way more than the $3,800,000.00 he is scheduled to get this year.

If the BRoncos think he will then they should pay him, BUT then of course we can play the F TAG game with him also. which mean no matter what he wants he plays for us another year. for as we speak about 87 million a year. with no up front money.

OR the best solution for him is to sign a longer term contract with some modest up front money and LOTS of incentives to make him the highest paid OLB in the game.

OR as I said play for slave wages of 3.8 mil this year and 7+mil next your.

By then he is going to start the down hill portion of his career. after 28

Since there is nothing happening in new contracts with the CBA up in the air get what you can before there is more structure. with a proviso that they can reopen if things do not go the way everyone thinks they will.

His Agent is doing him a disservice by keeping him away from contact in the locker room and his fellow players and position coaches. IMHO

[Lonestar]

Has nothing to do with the amount of sacks.

These are the problems with Dumervil

1. Pass rush specialist (meaning the other areas of his game are weak)

2. Not good against the run

3. Has trouble rushing the passer with hands off the ground. I believe all but 1 or 2 of his sacks came when we were in a 4 man front.

4. Not good in pass coverage


Now you want Ware/Willis type money?

Though Elvis did play on average 83% of the snaps in 2009, here is his ratings against the run...

http://profootballfocus.com/by_player.php?tab=by_player&season=2009&surn=dumervil&playerid=3071&group=6

1 game in the green against the worst or 2nd worst run offense in the league...Chargers... and 8 in the red.

His coverage?

7 passes were thrown his way and 5 were completed for an average of 14.4 yards. with a 104.5 QB rating when thrown his way.

Now compare him to a real 3-4 OLB, Woodley, Harrison, Ware...

James Harrison

http://profootballfocus.com/by_player.php?tab=by_player&season=2009&page=&surn=harrison&playerid=1251

Demarcus Ware

http://profootballfocus.com/by_player.php?tab=by_player&season=2009&surn=harrison&playerid=2228&group=

Lamarr Woodley

http://profootballfocus.com/by_player.php?tab=by_player&season=2009&surn=woodley&playerid=2228&group=

They all are great against the run AND pass.

Even Clay Matthews

http://profootballfocus.com/by_player.php?tab=by_player&season=2009&page=&surn=matthews&playerid=4949

Effective against the run AND the pass.

On top of that - they can all rush the passer with their hands off the ground.



Great site not sure what it all means but I saw this out of the game by game.

4 sacks against CLE.:laugh:
2 against OAK:laugh:
2 against DAL :salute:
2 @SAN :salute:
no show against @CIN, NE, @ BLT, OAK, SAN, @IND, KC:tsk:

1@ WAS should have been 12 as bad as that OLINE was.
2 @ PHL
1 @KC
2 NYG

HE had ONE game that he run Defense was int eh position against SAN in DEN. but then they had no runners worth a crap aIIRC Phillip had a great day against us so not need to run the ball.

he has the lowest snap count of the listed players.


******Snaps Overall Run D Rush Cov. Penalty # of Pen QB Sk QB Ht QB Pr BP Tks Ass MT Stops
doom 880 4.2 -12.1 21.2 0.1 -5.0 5-1 17 7 31 2 23 6 0 31
ware 1,093 36.8 9.4 27.8 4.1 -4.5 5-1 15 19 61 1 39 13 3 40
matthews 921 20.0 10.5 8.8 2.7 -2.0 2-0 11 14 26 0 30 9 7 31
harrison 1,032 22.7 3.0 21.8 1.9 -4.0 4-0 10 13 34 1 52 9 5 49




his run D is a MINUS. 15 points worse than harrison at 3 who is 6 some odd point worse than Ware.

his pass coverage is 4 full points behind ware

No wonder he was not tendered a contract by another team.

great at sack total liability on the rest of his game.

NOW since it was his first year as a OLB maybe he can up his game. If not no biggies contract in DEN.

Hey LT this is why he is coming back to camp because his agent screwed the pooch.

[LoyalSoldier]

Great site not sure what it all means but I saw this out of the game by game.

4 sacks against CLE.:laugh:
2 against OAK:laugh:
2 against DAL :salute:
2 @SAN :salute:
no show against @CIN, NE, @ BLT, OAK, SAN, @IND, KC:tsk:

1@ WAS should have been 12 as bad as that OLINE was.
2 @ PHL
1 @KC
2 NYG

.

*sigh* did you bother to check anyone elses? J.Allen had 7.5 against GB! He had half his sacks in two games against a horrible offensive line. Freeney was consistent.....for the game he actually played as he was injured in 4 of them.

I hate to tell you, but for most pass rushers there is no such thing as consistent sacks. It is usually a few games with a lot of sacks and a few games with none and then single sack games the remainder.

Again your point here is meaningless. When it comes to DEs you can be a factor and never get a sack in the whole game.

[Lonestar]

Sigh+ did you think that your comparing apples to oranges.

Your examples are hand on the ground DE's that are in 4-3. While those cited by Mr D where indeed OLBs in 3-4 defenses. ****sigh****

When ranked amougst his peers he sucks. Sorry it seems ..........
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[HORSEPOWER 56]

Has nothing to do with the amount of sacks.

These are the problems with Dumervil

1. Pass rush specialist (meaning the other areas of his game are weak)

2. Not good against the run

3. Has trouble rushing the passer with hands off the ground. I believe all but 1 or 2 of his sacks came when we were in a 4 man front.

4. Not good in pass coverage


Now you want Ware/Willis type money?

Though Elvis did play on average 83% of the snaps in 2009, here is his ratings against the run...

http://profootballfocus.com/by_player.php?tab=by_player&season=2009&surn=dumervil&playerid=3071&group=6

1 game in the green against the worst or 2nd worst run offense in the league...Chargers... and 8 in the red.

His coverage?

7 passes were thrown his way and 5 were completed for an average of 14.4 yards. with a 104.5 QB rating when thrown his way.

Now compare him to a real 3-4 OLB, Woodley, Harrison, Ware...

James Harrison

http://profootballfocus.com/by_player.php?tab=by_player&season=2009&page=&surn=harrison&playerid=1251

Demarcus Ware

http://profootballfocus.com/by_player.php?tab=by_player&season=2009&surn=harrison&playerid=2228&group=

Lamarr Woodley

http://profootballfocus.com/by_player.php?tab=by_player&season=2009&surn=woodley&playerid=2228&group=

They all are great against the run AND pass.

Even Clay Matthews

http://profootballfocus.com/by_player.php?tab=by_player&season=2009&page=&surn=matthews&playerid=4949

Effective against the run AND the pass.

On top of that - they can all rush the passer with their hands off the ground.

So tell me again who's helping Doom in getting to the QB? All of these guys have help (Harrison and Woodley are each other's help). Maybe if Elvis wasn't always lined up with scrubs like Haggan or rookies like Ayers who provide ZERO pass rush kinda forces him into that exclusive role. Rarely do you ever even see Doom drop into coverage.

Also, only Ware and Matthews (and Doom) did well their first season in the NFL at OLB. Matthews WAS an OLB so there was no learning curve. Harrison and Woodley were backups and got to learn their craft from guys like Joey Porter and DICK LEBEAU before they were expected to make the transition.

If Doom had any other playmaking LBs on the field with him or anybody who could get pressure other than him, maybe he could improve his other skillsets, but when you're your teams ONLY PASS RUSH THREAT, that's what you do. Shit, Elvis plays the run on the way to the QB almost every down. Just like Freeney and Mathis in Indy. Neither of them is worth a darn in the running game but Indy's defense would SUCK without them.

We know for a fact that Elvis does one thing well... rush the QB. Has there EVER been more of a need for a premier pass rusher than there is in today's NFL? We have one, period. You just don't let that get away. Bit player or not.

Guess what, Deion Sanders was a one dimensional CB who couldn't tackle but was a coverage machine. If he was on the team, in his prime (no pun intended), would you not pay him because he wasn't very good against the run? His primary job is to shut down WRs. Elvis' primary job is to pressure QBs and get sacks. All the other stuff is just gravy. Run support/coverage can be left to everyone else on the defense who doesn't get 17 sacks and tons of QB pressures. There are 10 other guys to stop the run and cover folks, ELVIS NEEDS TO BE RUSHING THE QB!!!!

[Lonestar]

HP Sounds like you do not care that he is totally inept at anything other than pass rushing.

Are you ok that last year a couple of teams ran on us at will partaillt because he sucked at RUN d.

Are you ok with paying him ware type money and him not being a WARE player.

And to preempt those that say he may NOT be asking for WARE money.

Just how much is a OLB that can't play anything but rush. That can't play pass coverage or the RUN where according to the site quoted. IIRC one game out of 16 was a positive against the RUN. And that game was barely positive.

So how much is a one trick pony worth.

It is obviuos that none I repeat NONE of the othr teams thought he was worth taking as a RFA and giving him a contract. For more than the Broncos are giving him at 3.8.

His agent finally opened his Eyes to that fact and has advised him to get back to work with his teamates or he got smart and told his agent he was FOS and wanted to get back to work that his ploy to get a fat contract did not work.

So what is he worth as a non run stopping or non pass covering OLB in a 3-4 defense?

BTW I remember on 3 or 4 sacks by Doom that Ayers would have got him from the other side had Doom not got him. I suspect we just might have another diamond in the rough here.
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[Lonestar]

you're wrong that none of the RFAs are getting deals-- demeco ryans and pat willis just signed big extensions, and some other guys have as well. . . the jets are working on an extension for darrelle revis, who's still under his rookie contract and hasn't even reached restricted free agency yet. . .

doom hasn't signed his tender because he wants the security of a multi-year deal, just like anyone else. . . you can speculate all you want, but neither you, nor i nor anyone else outside of his agent and the broncos FO know what he's asking for. . . although, it's not crazy to assume that he does want a big deal-- that's kinda what happens when you have an all-pro season. . . that's the way it works. . . all-pros DON'T play for chump change in this league, no matter how much fans think they should. . .

he's not doing anything that anyone else wouldn't in his position, and i'm not going to listen to somebody villify him over it. . . he's done everything the right way-- earned his payday on the field, and has never said a thing about it in the media. . .

we all wondered who you would make your next whipping boy after marshall left, and it makes me sick that you've apparently decided to use a guy who's not only one of our best players, but one of the team's best people. . . .

WOW SO FAR 5 MaYBE SIX RFA out of over 200 have gotten deals that is earth shattering.

Yes I guess that Doom is a whipping boy.

Or better yet that I see it clearly that way to many folks on here thought we could never survive not having after mike got fired, Jay as our Qb, or we would never get anything for jay or marhshall after they were castigated by Josh in the press. or that scheduler was TE that could not be given away.

Well, folks mike did not get the job 15 minutes after being released, we had as good a record last year after pretty much a total rebuild as one can do in one season We averaged the same wins as mikes were over last three years.

jay went on to a pretty mediocre season after leaving here, even though we got 2 firsts and third and a pretty fair QB in the deal. KO had his career year in DEN although playing with a impound dislocated Fore finger on his throwing hand for much of the first half of the season, and a high ankle sprain for much of the last half of the season, Not to mention he and the total team were in different schemes all year long. Compounding that is so were all the Coaches other than Josh and Nolan, kind of hard to coach a scheme you do not have down pat..

We got two-seconds for BM, and not even sure what we got for TS. Who is injured again BTW.

We lost a DC that seemed to have his eggs in MIA's basket before he left. While he helped Josh re-fomulate the D last year it was pretty mediocre or in some cases sucked because of his personnel choices. So time will tell if that was nolan or player based.

Now we get to Doom about the last left supposed "super stud" from the old regime.

While there is little doubt that he is a good Pass rusher, he sucks at the other part of being an OLB, he is no longer a DE that only plays during passing downs. He is supposed to be an every down OLB.

When Mr D compared him to other contemporary OLB's he failed at ALL aspects of the game besides sacking the QB

he has the lowest snap count of the listed players. Except Ayers who I added to the list just for jollies.


******Snaps Overall Run D Rush Cov. Penalty # of Pen QB Sk QB Ht QB Pr BP Tks Ass MT Stops
doom 880 4.2 -12.1 21.2 0.1 -5.0 5-1 17 7 31 2 23 6 0 31
ware 1,093 36.8 9.4 27.8 4.1 -4.5 5-1 15 19 61 1 39 13 3 40
matthews 921 20.0 10.5 8.8 2.7 -2.0 2-0 11 14 26 0 30 9 7 31
harrison 1,032 22.7 3.0 21.8 1.9 -4.0 4-0 10 13 34 1 52 9 5 49
ayers 426 1.6 3.0 -1.6 1.2 -1.0 1-0 0 5 17 1 19 0 2 12


BTW
Ayers played half of his snaps still had a better Run defense the same as harrison and better pass coverage as doom. had 17 QB pressures to Dooms 31 and 5 QB hits to dooms 7.

Sorry folks but I see bigger upside to Ayers right now in becoming an overall OLB than Doom does.

As I said in another post just what is a one trick pony really worth? to most of you, it is obviously more than 3.8 million a 7 fold raise over last year.

so what is his worth?

I say he works at becoming more than a one trick pony then we pay him what everyone thinks he is worth.

I say let offer him a incentive laden contract with the 3.8 as a base and let him earn as much money as he can Improve on.

I suspect they can word it in a manner that would allow him to make 6-8 million a year.

And i do not care what other players are getting the fact is until further notice HE is a Bronco through at least 2011 or longer with TAG capabilities. If he wants assume up front money this is the only option I would give him and his agent. Until he proves he can do something besides harass the QB.

He simply is not worth guaranteed money regardless of his outstanding personal traits.

I do not understand why more do not see what I see.


Yeah I guess Doom is my bitch till further notice.

[LoyalSoldier]

Sigh+ did you think that your comparing apples to oranges.

Your examples are hand on the ground DE's that are in 4-3. While those cited by Mr D where indeed OLBs in 3-4 defenses. ****sigh****

When ranked amougst his peers he sucks. Sorry it seems ..........
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Wow you missed the point completely. Because you didn't even address my point instead you just made a generic response.

I can tell you never bothered to look at anyone else's besides Dumervile's stats because AGAIN you are still wrong and in fact it only gets worse when you limit it to OLBs not better.

Ware had 2 sacks against KC, 2 against GB, 1 against Sea, and 1 against Oakland. He had a total of 11 and 6 of them came against terrible teams and terrible O-lines. Why aren't you criticizing him for getting sacks against trash?

I already mentioned Woodly who was Pitt's leading sacker.

Brian Orakpo had 4 sacks against Oakland, 1 against Det, and 1 against KC out of his 11 sacks. Why aren't you on his case?

James Harrison had 3 sacks against Det and one against KC.

If we want to talk about Dumervile's run support, fine there is room for debate. If we want to talk about why Ware is better, fine there is room for debate. But your point about who he got his sacks against is a seriously flawed argument because what you describe is only EVERY SINGLE DE AND OLB IN THE NFL!

[Lonestar]

Wow you missed the point completely. Because you didn't even address my point instead you just made a generic response.

I can tell you never bothered to look at anyone else's besides Dumervile's stats because AGAIN you are still wrong and in fact it only gets worse when you limit it to OLBs not better.

Ware had 2 sacks against KC, 2 against GB, 1 against Sea, and 1 against Oakland. He had a total of 11 and 6 of them came against terrible teams and terrible O-lines. Why aren't you criticizing him for getting sacks against trash?

I already mentioned Woodly who was Pitt's leading sacker.

Brian Orakpo had 4 sacks against Oakland, 1 against Det, and 1 against KC out of his 11 sacks. Why aren't you on his case?

James Harrison had 3 sacks against Det and one against KC.

If we want to talk about Dumervile's run support, fine there is room for debate. If we want to talk about why Ware is better, fine there is room for debate. But your point about who he got his sacks against is a seriously flawed argument because what you describe is only EVERY SINGLE DE AND OLB IN THE NFL!

Not catcall of wares because he already has GMAE and a contract. and he is not a bronco.

If you compare Ware to Doom he wins hands down in ALL category except the numb of sacks. He is a completer player that can do more the put his and in the ground and rush the QB.

I made that comment about doom getting a lot of sacks agains poor teams and I stand by it.


4 sacks against CLE.
2 against OAK
2 against DAL
2 @SAN
no show against @CIN, NE, @ BLT, OAK, SAN, @IND, KC

1@ WAS should have been 12 as bad as that OLINE was.
2 @ PHL
1 @KC
2 NYG
he got six of his 17 before the book was out on him in those first few games and then he got a whooping 6 sacks in the last few games.

Sorry but i do not share your love for a guy that is SO ONE dimensional.

I think 3.8 maybe be more than he is worth as a player that had only 80% of the snaps that ware got and only 84% of the defensive snap for us.

Where ware had only one game he missed more than 12 snaps in a game for the most part he missed from 0 to 4 snaps a game (12 games).

so he is the litmus test of OLB both in GAME but in pay. He had one game he was bad in run defense he had more pressure and hits than doom did his pass coverage was hugely better and he had two count them TWO less sacks than doom did.

SOrry but until he accepts a contract that he can earn incentives in he should be happy with a 700% raise.

BTW did you miss that 31 other teams decided he was not worth more money also?

So why should we pay him anymore? Market value seems to have spoken.

BTW he got TWO sacks after week 11. not a closer is he.

[LoyalSoldier]

Not catcall of wares because he already has GMAE and a contract. and he is not a bronco.

If you compare Ware to Doom he wins hands down in ALL category except the numb of sacks. He is a completer player that can do more the put his and in the ground and rush the QB.

I made that comment about doom getting a lot of sacks agains poor teams and I stand by it.

he got six of his 17 before the book was out on him in those first few games and then he got a whooping 6 sacks in the last few games.

Sorry but i do not share your love for a guy that is SO ONE dimensional.

I think 3.8 maybe be more than he is worth as a player that had only 80% of the snaps that ware got and only 84% of the defensive snap for us.

Where ware had only one game he missed more than 12 snaps in a game for the most part he missed from 0 to 4 snaps a game (12 games).

so he is the litmus test of OLB both in GAME but in pay. He had one game he was bad in run defense he had more pressure and hits than doom did his pass coverage was hugely better and he had two count them TWO less sacks than doom did.

SOrry but until he accepts a contract that he can earn incentives in he should be happy with a 700% raise.

BTW did you miss that 31 other teams decided he was not worth more money also?

So why should we pay him anymore? Market value seems to have spoken.

BTW he got TWO sacks after week 11. not a closer is he.

Or in other words if it doesn't fit with your opinion then it is worthless. Because again you blow by my point and make a ton of assumptions of what I think. Sorry all I said was your point was a worthless point because you can make that about everyone. Something you just brushed off and went on your way.

Besides you blew apart your own argument without even knowing it when you said being a DE and an OLB was apples and oranges. How many years has Ware or anyone else been playing OLB and how many years has Dumervile?

Can't have it both ways.

[TXBRONC]

So tell me again who's helping Doom in getting to the QB? All of these guys have help (Harrison and Woodley are each other's help). Maybe if Elvis wasn't always lined up with scrubs like Haggan or rookies like Ayers who provide ZERO pass rush kinda forces him into that exclusive role. Rarely do you ever even see Doom drop into coverage.

Also, only Ware and Matthews (and Doom) did well their first season in the NFL at OLB. Matthews WAS an OLB so there was no learning curve. Harrison and Woodley were backups and got to learn their craft from guys like Joey Porter and DICK LEBEAU before they were expected to make the transition.

If Doom had any other playmaking LBs on the field with him or anybody who could get pressure other than him, maybe he could improve his other skillsets, but when you're your teams ONLY PASS RUSH THREAT, that's what you do. Shit, Elvis plays the run on the way to the QB almost every down. Just like Freeney and Mathis in Indy. Neither of them is worth a darn in the running game but Indy's defense would SUCK without them.

We know for a fact that Elvis does one thing well... rush the QB. Has there EVER been more of a need for a premier pass rusher than there is in today's NFL? We have one, period. You just don't let that get away. Bit player or not.

Guess what, Deion Sanders was a one dimensional CB who couldn't tackle but was a coverage machine. If he was on the team, in his prime (no pun intended), would you not pay him because he wasn't very good against the run? His primary job is to shut down WRs. Elvis' primary job is to pressure QBs and get sacks. All the other stuff is just gravy. Run support/coverage can be left to everyone else on the defense who doesn't get 17 sacks and tons of QB pressures. There are 10 other guys to stop the run and cover folks, ELVIS NEEDS TO BE RUSHING THE QB!!!!

It's amazing how Dumervil is getting critcized for doing what he was asked to do and just completely ignoring that he that not only changed schemes he had to change positions. While someone like Orton who didn't have to change positions get's all kinds of excused made for him because he was in a new system. It is also interesting that hear how Orton should improve with another year in the same offense but Dumervil can't? That would be b.s.

[Lonestar]

Or in other words if it doesn't fit with your opinion then it is worthless. Because again you blow by my point and make a ton of assumptions of what I think. Sorry all I said was your point was a worthless point because you can make that about everyone. Something you just brushed off and went on your way.

Besides you blew apart your own argument without even knowing it when you said being a DE and an OLB was apples and oranges. How many years has Ware or anyone else been playing OLB and how many years has Dumervile?

Can't have it both ways.


Where did I say he was worthless as a player?

I said he is not worth more than what he is getting paid. still works out to $223 ,529 per sack IMHO that is a Lot of money.

You were comparing jared Allen who is a DE and someone else was throwing frenneys numbers out acting like they were OLB not DE's

SO that my friend is apples and oranges. IN most peoples minds at least. Lets not try and deflect the main message here that Doom while a splendid person, a great locker rooms person and a lunch pail type player that "usually" comes to work and does his job without complaint and a talented sacker stinks at the rest of his job.

When he can prove he deserves more the about $225 thousand per sack by learning the REST of his job, I say pay the man.

Till then he may even be over paid.

As far as him changing the position he was playing well from what I saw he did not change position other thatn in name only. None of his plays (sacks) were from a true OLB position, they were hand on the dirt rushes from an OLB position.

He was in negagatives in the other two areas that OLBs are responsible for. Was he asked to do more? hell I do not know. DID he do any thing else not that I saw.

So when he learns to be a complete player then and only Then should he be paid like an preimeir OLB that everyone here seems to think he is. HE disappeared in the last 6 games of the season getting only 8 stops one assisted tackle 9 real tackles 3 sacks a zero to a -.4 in pass coverage, his lowest marks in run defense while only playing about 80% of the snaps.

[LoyalSoldier]

Where did I say he was worthless as a player?

I said he is not worth more than what he is getting paid. still works out to $223 ,529 per sack IMHO that is a Lot of money.

You were comparing jared Allen who is a DE ans someone else was throwing frenney numbers out acting like they were OLB not DE's

SO that my friend is apples and oranges. IN most peoples minds at least. Lets not try and deflect the main message here that Doom while a splendid person, a great locker rooms person and a lunch pail type player that "usually" comes to work and does his job without complaint and a talented sacker stinks at the rest of his job.

When he can prove he deserves more the about $225 thousand per sack by learning the REST of his job, I say pay the man.

Till then he may even be over paid.

UM LOL?! Where did I say you said he was a worthless player. Seriously you aren't even reading my posts now. Because I said nothing of the sort.

AND AGAIN! You miss the point. When it comes to sack numbers, your argument can be made for any pass rushing specialist so it is a worthless point. If it applies to everyone in the NFL then it is a meaningless point.

[LordTrychon]

He doe s not have any choice he belongs to the broncos UNTIL they trade him or he completes his 5th year under this CBA. OR longer IF they maintain a Franchise TAG which there is NO doubt in my mind they will have in the contract.


Ok... but if your ENTIRE argument that he MUST be demanding 'Ware-like' money is based on him not showing up... and he's showing up now... then what does that mean to you?

He is not under contract... and he's showing up to a VOLUNTARY work out.

Not showing up for everything is pretty standard while things are being negotiated... but he's coming to a VOLUNTARY (read... not even required in a contract) camp.

So is he staying away because he is demanding huge money? Then why is he in Denver as we speak?

[Lonestar]

Ok... but if your ENTIRE argument that he MUST be demanding 'Ware-like' money is based on him not showing up... and he's showing up now... then what does that mean to you?

He is not under contract... and he's showing up to a VOLUNTARY work out.

Not showing up for everything is pretty standard while things are being negotiated... but he's coming to a VOLUNTARY (read... not even required in a contract) camp.

So is he staying away because he is demanding huge money? Then why is he in Denver as we speak?

Because he sees the hand writing not eh wall.

Unless he improves his game he is not going to get "ware" like money. Whether he is asking for it or not. You do not know nor do I. The only reason I brought it up was an article I read in the DP way back about him wanting to be paid like ware. no I'm not going to find a link. Not that important to me. but s seems like because i brought it up it seems to be the holy grail for some posters.

He is what I believe he may or may not be worth more than $3.8 million this coming year.

To me I think that is enough considering the rate of his PRESENT game, good on sacks piss poor on the other things that OLB are supposed to do, drop back in coverage (enough) to keep the O honest I'm not expecting Safety numbers here, and run defense.

right now all he has done or "Supposedly asked to do" is get after the passer. is it worth $225 thousand per sack Gee that sounds like a lot of money for showing up on pass ing downs. but then that is me.

COnsidering the last couple of teams we played we got the crap bay out of us on the ground, until I know for sure we have addressed that with more than a band aid I want more for my money than getting after the QB and getting to him once every say 63 snaps or so. or 1.6% of the time.

Not a great way to spend money .

Look if he steps up his game and can play the run and do so so while dropping back in coverage pay the guy. until hem he should be happy without eh 3.8 as that is max they could give out to a RFA.


I do know that if he was happy without eh $3.8 he would have signed it and been in EVERY work out and been doing conditioning in DEN like all the other good boys and girls.

HE had no choice but to come back to camp unless he was going to hold out all year and that would not accomplished anything had he been Ware with wares skill s perhaps but he is Doom without Ware skills.

He needs to be in with his coaches watching film, on the field earning how to drop in coverage and how to play the run as a OLB. He can;t do that from ATL or where ever he was.

Hopefully he will catch on and this conversation will be moot in a few months.

[LordTrychon]

It's a voluntary camp... he didn't have to show up... he did, because he is as you say 'a good boy'.

He may want more than 3.8 mil... he may not. As you said... we don't know. He may really just be pushing for a bit more security that is available in a multiple year deal, such as those you offer to players you want to keep. He may want that with more money, or a lot more money. It's all speculation.

It could be that they're in negotiation right now.

We just don't know. Any guesses are just that.

[Lonestar]

It's a voluntary camp... he didn't have to show up... he did, because he is as you say 'a good boy'.

He may want more than 3.8 mil... he may not. As you said... we don't know. He may really just be pushing for a bit more security that is available in a multiple year deal, such as those you offer to players you want to keep. He may want that with more money, or a lot more money. It's all speculation.

It could be that they're in negotiation right now.

We just don't know. Any guesses are just that.


Speculation it is.

BUt why did he stay away?

Knowing that he has no leverage none.

I repeat none because he either plays for DEN or he does not play.

HE can be Tagged the next two years after this one If they wish to play hard ball. So in essence he has zero options as we speak .

If he truly wants "MORE" of whatever, he has to show up and earn it.

There fore it gets back to he has not other options.

IMHO it was dumb of him or his agent (who knows what guidance he got from him) to stay away.

This FO has already shown the door to d bunch of malcontents does anyone debate that fact.

Why even open the door in the slightest of ways by not being here to work out with the team even if he is not required to be here..

Voluntary in the NFL = Not for Long if you do not participate..

Look I like the guy he is everything you want in a player (or was before this stunt) high motor, good attitude, leader in the LR, etc etc etc.

But until he becomes more rounded as a OLB he is not worth more than he is getting, and the only way to become more rounded is to watch film and accept coaching from the staff and to try to do that from afar is plain stupid.

[Denver Native (Carol)]

I think the only thing he has missed is the off season workout program, which Coach McD said he understood why he was not here.

[LordTrychon]

I think the only thing he has missed is the off season workout program, which Coach McD said he understood why he was not here.

Thank you, Carol.

He stayed away because he wants big money, but he's back because he has no leverage?

How did any of that change inbetween?

Perhaps the money/contract was simply not the reason he was staying away... or he'd still be gone. His leverage hasn't changed. I doubt his views on his leverage has either.

[Lonestar]

Thank you, Carol.

He stayed away because he wants big money, but he's back because he has no leverage?

How did any of that change inbetween?

Perhaps the money/contract was simply not the reason he was staying away... or he'd still be gone. His leverage hasn't changed. I doubt his views on his leverage has either.

What do you not understand.

Until the RFA status and him being offered a contract, he never missed a OTA and he worked out in DEN.

Is that a fact or not.

If it is a fact then accept the fact he was voicing his displeasure for not being offered a lomg term contract.

Is that a fair assumption.

So why is he coming back now?

Because he misses DEN so much?

Think about it he has not signed his RFA tender or not?

If he has not that means he is not happy with it.

BUT has figured out that it was all for naught.

Can we agree on this so far.

If so then he figured out he should be here to attend camp and be with his teamates who for the most part have been here all the off season. Interacying with coaches and watching film. A well as training with the conditioning coaches.

Sure offically all he has missed was. The latter but we all know it was more don't we.
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[Lonestar]

Lt I'm guessing you have never negioated labor contracts

You always use leverage IF you have it and in his case he tried to make a statement with staying away from the facilities as well as NOT signing his tender.

Josh I suspect is smart like a fox waiting the OTHER malcontents out and getting MAX value for them.

NOTICE I said other malcontents. Because I do not see Doom as a malcontent YET.
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[TXBRONC]

Thank you, Carol.

He stayed away because he wants big money, but he's back because he has no leverage?

How did any of that change inbetween?

Perhaps the money/contract was simply not the reason he was staying away... or he'd still be gone. His leverage hasn't changed. I doubt his views on his leverage has either.

If Dumervil had no leverage at all why hasn't signed his RFA tender yet?

Large assumptions are being made with nothing substantial to support them.

[Lonestar]

Ok... but if your ENTIRE argument that he MUST be demanding 'Ware-like' money is based on him not showing up... and he's showing up now... then what does that mean to you?

He is not under contract... and he's showing up to a VOLUNTARY work out.

Not showing up for everything is pretty standard while things are being negotiated... but he's coming to a VOLUNTARY (read... not even required in a contract) camp.

So is he staying away because he is demanding huge money? Then why is he in Denver as we speak?


It's a voluntary camp... he didn't have to show up... he did, because he is as you say 'a good boy'.

He may want more than 3.8 mil... he may not. As you said... we don't know. He may really just be pushing for a bit more security that is available in a multiple year deal, such as those you offer to players you want to keep. He may want that with more money, or a lot more money. It's all speculation.

It could be that they're in negotiation right now.

We just don't know. Any guesses are just that.


Thank you, Carol.

He stayed away because he wants big money, but he's back because he has no leverage?

How did any of that change inbetween?

Perhaps the money/contract was simply not the reason he was staying away... or he'd still be gone. His leverage hasn't changed. I doubt his views on his leverage has either.



Dumervil to make an appearance
By Lindsay H. Jones
The Denver Post
POSTED: 05/14/2010 01:00:00 AM MDT

Elvis Dumervil is set to end his offseason boycott of the Broncos by showing up for the team's first organized team activity Monday morning.

Dumervil is scheduled to return to Denver on Sunday from Miami, where he has been working out since the end of last season. He has skipped the Broncos' voluntary conditioning program that started in March.

It is unclear if Dumervil will participate in the on-field practices because he has not signed his restricted free-agent tender. That he is showing up, though, could be a sign of goodwill between Dumervil and the team.

"I think we'll see Elvis on Sunday, and we're looking forward to that," coach Josh McDaniels said Thursday afternoon after giving the keynote speech at the scholarship luncheon for the John Lynch Foundation at Invesco Field at Mile High.

Dumervil has until June 15 to sign the tender that will guarantee him a salary of $3.168 million in 2010. Dumervil, who led the NFL in sacks and made his first Pro Bowl in 2009, would ordinarily be in line for a large contract, perhaps on par with the $38 million guaranteed Terrell Suggs received from the Ravens before last season, or the contract Julius Peppers signed with Chicago in March, with $41 million guaranteed.

Dumervil is the last of the Broncos' restricted free agents to remain unsigned. Quarterback Kyle Orton and right guard Chris Kuper signed their tenders so they could work out with the team this spring. Brandon Marshall and Tony Scheffler signed their tenders just before they were traded in April.

Lindsay H. Jones: 303-954-1262 or ljones@denverpost.com



I stand corrected I was quoting he would get 3.8 mil when in fact it is a measily $3.168 mil


If he matches his 17 sack total a JUST a $186 thousand a sack. wow how will he be able to survive.

[LordTrychon]

I stand corrected I was quoting he would get 3.8 mil when in fact it is a measily $3.168 mil


If he matches his 17 sack total a JUST a $186 thousand a sack. wow how will he be able to survive.

Ok, wow... you requoted mutiple posts of mine, and then found an article that called him working out on his own (not unusual in the NFL) a 'boycott' and speculation from the same author that said that Dumervil should be in line for a large contract.

Nowhere in that article did it say that Dumervil had demanded that sort of contract.

Awesome stuff, Jr.

I know... poor guy... only 3.1 mil...

I know you think he's not that great, JR... but do you really think he's less than one tenth the player? Yes, I know the difference between signing bonus and salary.

Really, it amounts to Dumervil getting less than one tenth the money if he survives the whole year... whereas other players got 10x as much guaranteed.

I can't see why he'd ask for just a little more.

He sure is unreasonable.

Then again, we don't know what he's asking. :rolleyes:

[TXBRONC]

Ok, wow... you requoted mutiple posts of mine, and then found an article that called him working out on his own (not unusual in the NFL) a 'boycott' and speculation from the same author that said that Dumervil should be in line for a large contract.

Nowhere in that article did it say that Dumervil had demanded that sort of contract.

Awesome stuff, Jr.

I know... poor guy... only 3.1 mil...

I know you think he's not that great, JR... but do you really think he's less than one tenth the player? Yes, I know the difference between signing bonus and salary.

Really, it amounts to Dumervil getting less than one tenth the money if he survives the whole year... whereas other players got 10x as much guaranteed.

I can't see why he'd ask for just a little more.

He sure is unreasonable.

Then again, we don't know what he's asking. :rolleyes:

Exactly it's pure speculation to say he's asking for contract that's comparable to Ware's.

[Lonestar]

Ok, wow... you requoted mutiple posts of mine, and then found an article that called him working out on his own (not unusual in the NFL) a 'boycott' and speculation from the same author that said that Dumervil should be in line for a large contract.

Nowhere in that article did it say that Dumervil had demanded that sort of contract.

Awesome stuff, Jr.

I know... poor guy... only 3.1 mil...

I know you think he's not that great, JR... but do you really think he's less than one tenth the player? Yes, I know the difference between signing bonus and salary.

Really, it amounts to Dumervil getting less than one tenth the money if he survives the whole year... whereas other players got 10x as much guaranteed.

I can't see why he'd ask for just a little more.

He sure is unreasonable.

Then again, we don't know what he's asking. :rolleyes:

Was not "another article" but the orginal thread starter.
I have never said he was not great. I have said consistently for a player that has played IIRC almost 85% of the defensive snaps he is a liability when they run the ball or if God forbid he has to drop back in coverage.

These are basic skills of an OLB in any defensive scheme. GRANTED it is a NEW position for him and there should be a learning curve.

But even as a DE he stunk it up covring running plays.

IIRC from the list of acheivments at that site he had 31 total stops. He had 17 sacks therefore simple math tells me that he only had 14 other stops.

So if that is not great I guess you are correct.

Why does anyone believe it is the holy grail that a player should get upwards of 30 millon guaranteed is beyond me.

If you do the math 3.168 mil is a SIX fold increase in pay for someone that has not proven anything past getting after the QB ONLY and then only when he starts with his hand in the dirt.

That key means the TE or RB that he should cover is going to be WIDE open past the LOS until they would get into safety coverage.

If they only play him in obvious passing situations. Like they should be thenthe 3.168 is probbaly over paying him.

As for what he was BOYCOTTING for we do not know for sure.

But the way the 30 million numbers are throw out by everyone including YOURSELF tells me that it must be pretty close to the bone.

I've said it many times he is a great kid othr than this "BOYCOTT" all you want in a player,that can get after the QB. But he is still a one trick pony no more no less as we speak.

He has NO leverage in this negioation none. Never did and outside of holding out has no other cards to play. That is IF Josh et al wish to play hard ball or just have decided that until the CBA is fixed thay are not going sign huge contracts.

Since ther have been almost no other of the 200 RFAs extended. It is reasonable to BELIEVE that is the owners leverage.

Next year there will be another 200 plus players that are RFAs. That equates to cheap labor. And the pressure shifts to the PA to get something done. LEVERAGE folks.
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[LordTrychon]

Was not "another article" but the orginal thread starter.
I have never said he was not great. I have said consistently for a player that has played IIRC almost 85% of the defensive snaps he is a liability when they run the ball or if God forbid he has to drop back in coverage.

These are basic skills of an OLB in any defensive scheme. GRANTED it is a NEW position for him and there should be a learning curve.

But even as a DE he stunk it up covring running plays.

IIRC from the list of acheivments at that site he had 31 total stops. He had 17 sacks therefore simple math tells me that he only had 14 other stops.

So if that is not great I guess you are correct.

Why does anyone believe it is the holy grail that a player should get upwards of 30 millon guaranteed is beyond me.

If you do the math 3.168 mil is a SIX fold increase in pay for someone that has not proven anything past getting after the QB ONLY and then only when he starts with his hand in the dirt.

That key means the TE or RB that he should cover is going to be WIDE open past the LOS until they would get into safety coverage.

If they only play him in obvious passing situations. Like they should be thenthe 3.168 is probbaly over paying him.

As for what he was BOYCOTTING for we do not know for sure.

But the way the 30 million numbers are throw out by everyone including YOURSELF tells me that it must be pretty close to the bone.

I've said it many times he is a great kid othr than this "BOYCOTT" all you want in a player,that can get after the QB. But he is still a one trick pony no more no less as we speak.

He has NO leverage in this negioation none. Never did and outside of holding out has no other cards to play. That is IF Josh et al wish to play hard ball or just have decided that until the CBA is fixed thay are not going sign huge contracts.

Since ther have been almost no other of the 200 RFAs extended. It is reasonable to BELIEVE that is the owners leverage.

Next year there will be another 200 plus players that are RFAs. That equates to cheap labor. And the pressure shifts to the PA to get something done. LEVERAGE folks.
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It's a six fold increase for someone who was underpaid for his production.

I didn't throw out those numbers. You threw out those numbers and I used them since they were on the table. :rolleyes:

http://web1.denverbroncos.com/page.php?id=349&videoID=3837&type=broncosTV&year=&month=

Here you can see Dumervil and Mcdaniels fighting about 40 seconds in.

You can go on and on about how he has no leverage other than to hold out, and you talk about how wonderful it is for the organization to exert its leverage, but you're upset that he missed a voluntary workout that had nothing to do with xs and os.

He's not even holding out, and you're upset because you think he may want more money.

Do you want more money than what you make, JR? If you were the very best at whatever it is that you do well, would you like making a 10th as much as other people in your field? Or would you be ok with a small raise while others got very large ones?

I know I'd like more money.

[TXBRONC]

Ok, wow... you requoted mutiple posts of mine, and then found an article that called him working out on his own (not unusual in the NFL) a 'boycott' and speculation from the same author that said that Dumervil should be in line for a large contract.

Nowhere in that article did it say that Dumervil had demanded that sort of contract.

Awesome stuff, Jr.

I know... poor guy... only 3.1 mil...

I know you think he's not that great, JR... but do you really think he's less than one tenth the player? Yes, I know the difference between signing bonus and salary.

Really, it amounts to Dumervil getting less than one tenth the money if he survives the whole year... whereas other players got 10x as much guaranteed.

I can't see why he'd ask for just a little more.

He sure is unreasonable.

Then again, we don't know what he's asking. :rolleyes:

I thought you might find this interesting.


http://sports.yahoo.com/nfl/news?slug=ap-broncos-dumervil

Dumervil participates in Broncos’ workouts
By ARNIE STAPLETON, AP Sports Writer
34 minutes ago

ENGLEWOOD, Colo. (AP)—Elvis Dumervil(notes) is taking part in the Denver Broncos’ passing camp, the first time he’s worked out with the team since last season.

The Broncos’ star outside linebacker, who led the NFL with 17 sacks last season, is a restricted free agent who has skipped the team’s offseason conditioning program while working out on his own in Miami.

Dumervil hasn’t signed his $3.168 million tender or a contract extension. It’s believed he signed a waiver so that he could participate in the three days of workouts at Dove Valley this week.

Among those skipping the camp are offensive linemen Ryan Clady(notes), Ryan Harris(notes) and Russ Hochstein(notes), all of whom are coming off surgeries.

That really doesn't sound like someone who is looking to be paid like DeMarcus Ware.

[LordTrychon]

I thought you might find this interesting.



That really doesn't sound like someone who is looking to be paid like DeMarcus Ware.

*gasp*

A guy who's been nothing but class his whole career is being a class act again? Who knew?!

:rolleyes:

:laugh:

He better not get hurt. :fight:

[TXBRONC]

*gasp*

A guy who's been nothing but class his whole career is being a class act again? Who knew?!

:rolleyes:

:laugh:

He better not get hurt. :fight:

Yeah he such a malcontent that he signed a release so he could practice.
Darn you Dumervil! :tsk:

[LordTrychon]

Look, I can quote me too! :laugh:


It's a voluntary camp... he didn't have to show up... he did, because he is as you say 'a good boy'.

He may want more than 3.8 mil... he may not. As you said... we don't know. He may really just be pushing for a bit more security that is available in a multiple year deal, such as those you offer to players you want to keep. He may want that with more money, or a lot more money. It's all speculation.

It could be that they're in negotiation right now.

We just don't know. Any guesses are just that.

From the tweets from OTAs thread.



fs3142 McD says the team is "working" with Elvis' agent on a long-term deal. Sounds optimistic it will happen

[Lonestar]

It's a six fold increase for someone who was underpaid for his production.

I didn't throw out those numbers. You threw out those numbers and I used them since they were on the table. :rolleyes:

http://web1.denverbroncos.com/page.php?id=349&videoID=3837&type=broncosTV&year=&month=

Here you can see Dumervil and Mcdaniels fighting about 40 seconds in.

You can go on and on about how he has no leverage other than to hold out, and you talk about how wonderful it is for the organization to exert its leverage, but you're upset that he missed a voluntary workout that had nothing to do with xs and os.

He's not even holding out, and you're upset because you think he may want more money.

Do you want more money than what you make, JR? If you were the very best at whatever it is that you do well, would you like making a 10th as much as other people in your field? Or would you be ok with a small raise while others got very large ones?

I know I'd like more money.


the bottom line is as RFA he got the MAX raise they could give him without redoing the contract. is that right or wrong.

it is a given that everyone wants more.

But when is enough enough a six fold raise for most folks is one hell of a raise. considering it was the most they could do.

after hearing from after the OTAs today it sounds like they are going to try and get a long term deal done.

I just have to wonder had he been here all along if it may have been done already. Only the Shadow knows for sure.

[Poet]

Real world does not apply to NFL players.

Real world folks' minimum wage is even friggin close to what these guys make.

Then again, most folks don't have to deal with the media like these guys do, and they (typically) get banged up as much as these guys do.

It's not comparing apples and oranges; it's like comparing a toy tonka trunk to an airplane.

Twice in his career Dumervil hit 10 plus sacks. That almost guarantees him a larger contract.

Does he deserve a new one? Yeah, he does. Teams often try to resign guys in the middle of their deals when they think that they're about to breakout, that way if they do they won't have to pay as much. A real good example of that right now is Chris Johnson. On a sidenote, I think that situation could really get ugly.

Your defense was solid with a bunch of no name players minus Champ, Dawkins and Dumvervil. Other than those three no one else on that defense is really proven. The first guy is still a really good but aging corner. The next guy on that list is a safety who has two years in him max, and that's me being generous.

The next guy on that list in his FIRST year in the 3-4 just led the NFL in sacks.

Who is supposed to be the face of your defense? Who is going to rush the passer? You HAVE to have guys in that 3-4 who can do it, if you don't there's no point in running the 3-4. It's the better pass rushing system, but you have to have the players.

I'm not running smack on your team, but your defense isn't exactly undertalented. You guys aren't like Pittsburgh or Baltimore, either. I don't have much faith in you guys being able to just plug people in and get production. You don't have a Dick LeBeau or a Rex Ryan. You don't even have a Cam Cameron, either.

You guys need players. Dumervil is a young player who can produce.

Also, it goes beyond sacks, too. All of those elite pass rushers are guys who pressure the QB often, sack or no sack. That impacts plays and leads to turnovers as well, but it doesn't really show up in the stat column barring 'hurries'.

You guys got rid of players who didn't appear to buy into the team first mentality. That is a good way to run a franchise, but you have to have great players to win, and great players cost money.

Everyone is at risk for injury. Dumvervil isn't known as a soft and oft-injured player.

Sack men aren't a dime-a-dozen like running backs and wide receivers. If you don't pay him someone will.

[Lonestar]

Real world does not apply to NFL players.

Real world folks' minimum wage is even friggin close to what these guys make.

Then again, most folks don't have to deal with the media like these guys do, and they (typically) get banged up as much as these guys do.

It's not comparing apples and oranges; it's like comparing a toy tonka trunk to an airplane.

Twice in his career Dumervil hit 10 plus sacks. That almost guarantees him a larger contract.

Does he deserve a new one? Yeah, he does. Teams often try to resign guys in the middle of their deals when they think that they're about to breakout, that way if they do they won't have to pay as much. A real good example of that right now is Chris Johnson. On a sidenote, I think that situation could really get ugly.

Your defense was solid with a bunch of no name players minus Champ, Dawkins and Dumvervil. Other than those three no one else on that defense is really proven. The first guy is still a really good but aging corner. The next guy on that list is a safety who has two years in him max, and that's me being generous.

The next guy on that list in his FIRST year in the 3-4 just led the NFL in sacks.

Who is supposed to be the face of your defense? Who is going to rush the passer? You HAVE to have guys in that 3-4 who can do it, if you don't there's no point in running the 3-4. It's the better pass rushing system, but you have to have the players.

I'm not running smack on your team, but your defense isn't exactly undertalented. You guys aren't like Pittsburgh or Baltimore, either. I don't have much faith in you guys being able to just plug people in and get production. You don't have a Dick LeBeau or a Rex Ryan. You don't even have a Cam Cameron, either.

You guys need players. Dumervil is a young player who can produce.

Also, it goes beyond sacks, too. All of those elite pass rushers are guys who pressure the QB often, sack or no sack. That impacts plays and leads to turnovers as well, but it doesn't really show up in the stat column barring 'hurries'.

You guys got rid of players who didn't appear to buy into the team first mentality. That is a good way to run a franchise, but you have to have great players to win, and great players cost money.

Everyone is at risk for injury. Dumvervil isn't known as a soft and oft-injured player.

Sack men aren't a dime-a-dozen like running backs and wide receivers. If you don't pay him someone will.

I understand what you are saying and did not get a bit of smack out of it.

I believe that the players we sign to mega deals have to be more than 33% of the job requirements for the position they are filling.

If he was good at something OTHER than pressuring and sacking the QB and he was not playing some 85% of the snaps then I would be all over giving him a good contract.

But many feel that he is a God and therefore sohould be given what ever he wants .

I say give him a strong contract that uncertified him to become more than a sack specialist as the QB will key on his spot when all they ever see him doing is coming on a rush the player he is supposed to cover or spot he is supposed to defend is going to be wide open.

he is a liability to the defense IF he does not improve the other parts of his game.

I know it was his first year as AN OLB, that fact did not escape me.

But what escapes everyone else is he is atrocious in the other two thirds of his job description.

He can not expect nor can the fans that he deserves a mega deal. Unless he is willing to take incentives for those other areas. If he improves then he and everyone is happier.

That is not to unreasonable to ask for is it?

[Thnikkaman]

Broncos discussing long-term deal with Dumervil
Comments 0 | Recommend 0
May 17, 2010 1:22 PM
FRANK SCHWAB
THE GAZETTE

http://www.gazette.com/sports/long-98906-broncos-term.html

ENGLEWOOD – Elvis Dumervil was on the practice field for the Denver Broncos, and both sides seemed optimistic about a long-term contract extension getting done soon.

Dumervil said he signed an injury waiver to practice today during the first day of the team’s passing camp, the first time the team has practiced together. Dumervil is a restricted free agent who hasn’t yet signed his tender.

Broncos coach Josh McDaniels and Dumervil said that the outside linebacker’s representatives and the team have had talks on a long-term deal.

“Nothing imminent, but we’re working together on the thing to make sure he’s a Bronco for a long time,” McDaniels said. "He deserves it.”

Dumervil didn’t seem too bothered by not getting his extension already. He led the NFL in sacks last year.

“I know it’s a work in progress,” Dumervil said. “I know everything will take care of itself.

“It’s the business side of football, we all know that. For the most part I’m just happy to be out here and be with the team. At the end of the day, I’m going to be a Bronco in 2010."

[Tned]

the bottom line is as RFA he got the MAX raise they could give him without redoing the contract. is that right or wrong.

it is a given that everyone wants more.

But when is enough enough a six fold raise for most folks is one hell of a raise. considering it was the most they could do.

after hearing from after the OTAs today it sounds like they are going to try and get a long term deal done.

I just have to wonder had he been here all along if it may have been done already. Only the Shadow knows for sure.

NFL stars are not 'most folks'. When a guy leads the league in sacks and is among the league leader in sacks over three years, he doesn't expect and shouldn't be paid $3.8 million. "Most folks" don't have a career span that will likely be less than 10 years, and even shorter if he takes one bad hit or fall.

If the Broncos continue to NOT reward players that WAY out perform their expectations and contracts, then they are never going to build a winning team.