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Dean
05-10-2010, 09:18 PM
http://www.nfltouchdown.com/exclusive-nfltouchdowncom%E2%80%99s-interview-with-denver-broncos-running-back-correll-buckhalter/




Exclusive: NFLTouchdown.com’s interview with Denver Broncos running back Correll Buckhalter May 9, 2010 by Rich Kurtzman |

At 6’0” 217 pounds, Buckhalter’s legs are like tree trunks and he is a shifty back with power.

But his biggest asset isn’t his physical ability; it’s his intelligence that he uses to learn about the defense every time he touches the ball.

Buckhalter increased that intelligence at the University of Nebraska where he studied Sociology and unlike nearly every other professional athlete, finished his Bachelor’s Degree before moving on with his life.

Despite not being the starter for the Cornhuskers, he was originally selected in the fourth round of the 2001 draft by the Philadelphia Eagles and spent his next nine years with the team.

After a strong rookie year, Buckhalter tore his ACL in the team’s first mini-camp before the 2002 season but the strong-minded running back wouldn’t let the injury deter him. In 2003, Buckhalter was awarded the Ed Block Courage Award by Eagles’ teammates for team effort and individual performance.

But the adversity didn’t end there, as Buckhalter tore the patella tendon in his right knee in the next two consecutive years (2004-05) and missed both seasons.

Again he came back strong and split series with Brian Westbook, racking up 1,027 yards and eight touchdowns on the ground and another 667 yards and two TDs through the air from 2006-08.

Getting the ball to Buckhalter in Philly was none other than the highly publicized Donavon McNabb. Buckhalter touched on the quarterback’s trade from the Eagles to the division rival, and Mike Shanahan coached Redskins.

“It was a bit of a shocker. Not because they (Philadelphia) were trying to trade him, but what they got for him. It was his 10th year, you know, so it’s kind of different for the Eagles with a new starting quarterback this year. But they’re still going to compete with the team they have.”

Making a transition to a new team after spending nearly a decade in one city is a massive move. Luckily, Buckhalter had an old friend to comfort him in his move to Denver.

Ex-Eagle Brian Dawkins joined the Broncos with Buckhalter last year, and Buckhalter discussed how important Dawkins was to him in that transition.

“Oh it felt great (to be reunited with Dawkins). It helps when you have a teammate that was one of your good teammates from your previous team. It feels good when you have someone you can talk to and you can really trust, that you played with for so long. And for Dawk to come out and not only help our team but be someone I can be able to trust and talk to (is great).

“Brian Dawkins is a great leader and he’s going to be in the Hall of Fame one day.

“It was great to come to this team with another member of the Eagles family.”

A change of scenery is said to help many athletes, and both Buckhalter and Dawkins profited from moving to the Mile High City. In Buckhalter’s case, moving from the hustle-and-bustle of the East Coast to the Rocky Mountain High Life of relaxation in stunning Colorado was a positive change for sure.

“You know, being in Philadelphia for so long and being in that city life, and coming to Denver where it’s quiet, clean, with nice mountain views, it’s a night and day difference.

“They have some great fans man. Mountain people want to watch football and it’s great to go to a city and play for people like that.

“It makes you feel wanted and feel great on Sundays when they come out and support you.”

Broncos’ fans have lots of reasons to love Buckhalter; he played quite well for Denver in 2009 in a backup role. And it wasn’t just the scenic changes that made him better; it was the coaching change as well.

“Josh (McDaniels) allows me to be who I am, running the ball but catching the ball as well. It’s about me using my skill in a variety of ways.

“And McDaniels, I think the guy is a genius and it’s only going to get better.

“You know, it was a learning experience for all of us last year, me trying to get cohesive with guys as well as Josh McDaniels’ first year as a head coach. And I think we have more things figured out and our offense is only going to be better.”

Buckhalter, “The General” as coined by ESPN’s Chris Berman, ran for a career-high 642 yards and a touchdown last season, with an additional 240 yards through the air. Buckhalter is a versatile back, a trait that has become a trend on the Broncos roster under McDaniels.

Another attribute that can be positively associated with the Broncos under McDaniels is strong character—a team-first attitude all the way.

When asked about competing with Knowshon Moreno for the starting running back position in 2009, he spoke about it more as a team effort than a grudge match.

“That’s my guy, that’s my buddy. I talk to him during the season and I try to help him in any way possible.

“I always tell him, ‘If you want to be around the league a while you have to handle your things.’ He listens to me. And I know that he’s not one of those kids that has a hard head or a big head.

“I told him he can be a great back in this league but it’s going to take you a couple years to really get a feel for reads in the NFL and to be patient and take your time.”

The chemistry between backs is strong in the Broncos backfield, a promising sign that may be a microcosm of McDaniels’ blossoming team.

When asked about how Moreno got a majority of the carries on the goal line, despite Buckhalter having a bigger body and seemingly stronger running style he explained a bit of the Broncos offense.

“Me and Knowshon actually had different packages. When we were down on the goal line that was mainly him. Knowshon he really fits that. But at the same time it’s a learning process. He just needs to get all the reads down, it’s a part of the game.

“He’s a strong runner but he’s young and was missing reads and stuff but he will be better this year.”

And Buckhalter followed that explanation of character, with another,

“And if Josh McDaniels wants to put me in short yardage or goal line then I’ll do my best to run it.”

Buckhalter’s not demanding the ball; he’s not even upset that he got half the carries the rookie did in 2009. Not only that, he’s doing his best to teach Moreno the ropes of the NFL game.

When describing his role on the team, Buckhalter continued that attitude, “Doing a lot of that third down stuff, other than that I don’t know that their plans are. But whatever the team’s plan is, I will be productive, whatever role I have on the team because I know the team needs me.”

Buckhalter is exactly the type of player McDaniels has shown he wants to stockpile—he’s selfless, a hard worker and intelligent.

After reminiscing about a decent season last year, “The General” shifted gears and discussed Denver’s upcoming season—starting with the draft, continuing with the changes in the locker room and finishing with expectations for the 2010 Broncos.

He began with his thoughts on the Broncos’ draft three weeks ago, “I’m excited. Especially for the receivers we got and the lineman that we got,” Buckhalter said.

“And with (Tim) Tebow coming in and I think they (Broncos front office) did a good job. We’ll see in about a week when we come in see how they compete and see how they fit on the team.”

Buckhalter on the many personnel changes, most notably the trade of Brandon Marshall, and how they will affect the team.

“I think everybody on the team will be on one accord, there won’t be any distractions. I feel like everybody on the team now knows what the goals are.

“Last year was a rough year with coach McDaniels and Brandon (Marshall).

“When you have guys thinking for themselves instead of the team and have distractions like that it doesn’t help you.”

If anything, Buckhalter knows his fellow teammates and is an optimist. He believes the Broncos will not only be improved with their new players but that they will make the postseason for the first time in five years—ending a streak that hasn’t been as long since the 1960s.

“I feel that way definitely. Last year, coach McDaniels was telling us some things that related back to coach (Andy) Reid, ‘It’s about what you do in the games that you play in November and December to be a good team and go to the playoffs and excel.’

“And we started strong but we didn’t finish strong and we can’t do that. And the guys that we have on the team I think they know that.”
Buckhalter, the seasoned veteran, gets it.

McDaniels’ it is somewhat simple, but something that’s lost in the multi-billion dollar business—the team comes first.

Buckhalter gives the game his all and more. There’s nothing in his contract that says he has to help the rookie Moreno along, but he does so gladly.

The team listens to the coach and his vision because the team can only move forward when they work in unison.

Buckhalter is happy to do whatever McDaniels and the rest of the coaching staff asks of him, looking to turn any opportunity into a positive gain.

A team is only as strong as its weakest link, and Correll Buckhalter will never be that

Rich Kurtzman is a Colorado State University Alumnus and a freelance sports journalist. Along with being the Denver Broncos Featured Columnist on NFLTouchdown.com, Kurtzman is the Denver Nuggets FC on bleacherreport.com, the CSU Rams Examiner on examiner.com and a contributor to coloradosportsdesk.com.


Buckhalter must be confused. Everyone knows that Moreno's 3.8 yards per carry was the line's fault.



That ought to get some discussion! : }

Denver Native (Carol)
05-10-2010, 09:31 PM
Great article - thanks for posting

Mr D
05-10-2010, 11:02 PM
McDaniels and Moreno have both talked about Moreno missing reads and the frustrations ... Moreno will be better this year he already talked about how he missed a lot of reads last year.

I'm not entirely sure if that had to do with the zone blocking reads which is supposed to be taken out this year.

I'm confident in Moreno - he's a solid blocker, solid hands, and he's athletic.

honz
05-10-2010, 11:10 PM
http://www.nfltouchdown.com/exclusive-nfltouchdowncom%E2%80%99s-interview-with-denver-broncos-running-back-correll-buckhalter/






Buckhalter must be confused. Everyone knows that Moreno's 3.8 yards per carry was the line's fault.



That ought to get some discussion! : }
Yep, there's now way it was a combination of both.

TiminatorTebow
05-11-2010, 05:56 AM
There was a chef RB back in the 90's named Hill who wore the #27. He was supposed to be the man coming out of Texas A & M but never could read blocks even with Marcus Allen trying to help him. Lets hope Moreno and Buck are not repeating history.

Dean
05-11-2010, 06:23 AM
There was a chef RB back in the 90's named Hill who wore the #27. He was supposed to be the man coming out of Texas A & M but never could read blocks even with Marcus Allen trying to help him. Lets hope Moreno and Buck are not repeating history.

Buck averaged a decent 5.4 yards per carry. He made the correct reads and the rushing offense was effective when he was in the game. Moreno ran with even more impatience as the season progressed.

I am in not way saying that Moreno can't be a premier ball carrier. I am just m:coffee:aking the the "Knowshon can do no wrong" crowd aware that their assertion that the O-line was our problem in reality was only a piece of the problem.

gobroncsnv
05-11-2010, 06:55 AM
Let's just hope that Moreno's rookie season is not his best one, just like with about 95% (understatement) of the RB's who play in this league. Buck's real value to the team will show up this year, now with Bobby Turner gone to DC. In addition to being the guy who not only KNOWS which hole or read to hit, he actually SHOWS how to do it. I think Moreno is smart to listen to the kind of experience that Buck brings to the table.
Now, in conjunction with what should be an improved o-line (get well soon, Ryan Clady), you have the makings of our running game getting better... Moreno learning his reads better will be a major factor, and it will be because Buckhalter showed him the way. Plus, there was a LOT to like when he carried the ball as well. Great addition to the team. Nice read, coach.

broncofaninfla
05-11-2010, 07:40 AM
Good read. Add me to the list of people tired of hearing how bad the oline was. Buck was a very productive RB behind that line when he was healthy. It's clear Buck has the better vision of the two RB's. Hopefully Moreno can and does improve on that this season. I also hope Buck can stay healthy this season as he is still our best running back.

Tned
05-11-2010, 07:53 AM
Good read. Add me to the list of people tired of hearing how bad the oline was. Buck was a very productive RB behind that line when he was healthy. It's clear Buck has the better vision of the two RB's. Hopefully Moreno can and does improve on that this season. I also hope Buck can stay healthy this season as he is still our best running back.

Yep, it was the case I was trying to make in a thread last week or the week before when much of the offensive woes, especially running game, was being blamed on the O-line.

Buckhalter was 12th in the league (out of 49 backs) with 5.4 YPC among backs with at least 100 carries. Compare that with Moreno's 3.8 YPC.

It wasn't just stats. All of us that watched the games could see it on the field as well. When Buckhalter was in, he would easily pick up 3, 5, 10 yard gains, and then in the very next series with Moreno, he would struggle to get 3 or 4 yards.

Now, I wasn't happy with the O-line. Clady had a down year, Hamilton struggled and deserved to be replaced. Harris being out hurt on the right side. There is plenty of room for improvement in the line, but I think it is a mistake to fixate on the O-line as the offense's problem, rather than looking at the average play of Moreno and Orton.

Nomad
05-11-2010, 08:01 AM
Buckhalter won't stay healthy this year, so Moreno will have his chance and the oline won't be blamed so much as long as players aren't getting tackled behind the LOS!

Tned
05-11-2010, 08:07 AM
Buckhalter won't stay healthy this year, so Moreno will have his chance and the oline won't be blamed so much as long as players aren't getting tackled behind the LOS!

Why didn't Buck get tackled behind the LOS?

TXBRONC
05-11-2010, 10:24 AM
Buckhalter won't stay healthy this year, so Moreno will have his chance and the oline won't be blamed so much as long as players aren't getting tackled behind the LOS!

It shouldn't be an automatic assumption that it's the line's fault if a back gets tackled behind the line of scrimmage. It could any number of things, a poor exchange, a misread, a fumble, or maybe the defense sends more people than you have blockers. No offensive line is perfect but every tackle behind the line of scrimmage isn't necessarily a result of poor blocking.

Elevation inc
05-11-2010, 11:07 AM
http://www.nfltouchdown.com/exclusive-nfltouchdowncom%E2%80%99s-interview-with-denver-broncos-running-back-correll-buckhalter/






Buckhalter must be confused. Everyone knows that Moreno's 3.8 yards per carry was the line's fault.



That ought to get some discussion! : }


you posted a good article then set bait with your final line.....any discussion is really a result of your dig more than the article..... :lol:


if you feel the ZBS and 285 lb interior OL and a back-up waste at RT in polumbus had no fault at all last year so be it......i disagree immensely.....i dont disgaree that knowshon was a rookie last year because he was and sometimes rookies make mistakes.....ITS WHY THEY ARE ROOKIES......but hey im just being rational here.....its also funny bucky makes a comment about missing reads when he missed a couple as well that could have got him more than the 1 TD he had last year.......just saying.....for fairness sake and all:D

TXBRONC
05-11-2010, 11:23 AM
you posted a good article then set bait with your final line.....any discussion is really a result of your dig more than the article.....


if you feel the ZBS and 285 lb interior OL and a back-up waste at RT in polumbus had no fault at all last year so be it......i disagree immensely.....i dont disgaree that knowshon was a rookie last year because he was and sometimes rookies make mistakes.....ITS WHY THEY ARE ROOKIES......but hey im just being rational here.....its also funny bucky makes a comment about missing reads when he missed a couple as well that could have got him more than the 1 TD he had last year.......just saying.....for fairness sake and all:D

Dean didn't say that the offensive line was completely innocent and maybe Buckhalter did have a couple misreads but he still managed to have a ypc of 5.4 while Moreno had a 3.8 behind the same offensive line. So it's not fair to put all the blame on the offensive line.

Elevation inc
05-11-2010, 01:14 PM
Dean didn't say that the offensive line was completely innocent and maybe Buckhalter did have a couple misreads but he still managed to have a ypc of 5.4 while Moreno had a 3.8 behind the same offensive line. So it's not fair to put all the blame on the offensive line.

i rather doubtful in believing that bucky wouldnt have a 3.8 either if he had the carries moreno did against teams like baltimore and pitt...is it moreno's fault bucky was hurt and couldnt carry the rock to get the carries moreno did??? nope.....the fact is YPC is great and all but what about 1 TD from our other better runner people are claiming????that isnt great at all.....what about moreno's 10 TD's thats more from a rookie rusher in denver since what portis????


and i clearly didn't put all the blame on the OL if you read my post...i admit moreno made rookie mistakes(but they are rookie mistakes, its a legit excuse...period when guys like medehall, thomas jones, j stewart, deangleo williams cedric benson fail there rookie year but look at them now)??? if people belive 285 Lb lineman that are cleary worn out and old and a running scheme that hasnt done crap when it really matters (Short and goalline)is not to blame then perhaps i need to just go away because i wont change that blind train of thought...i am a mere couch poster.....


the fault moreno takes here for what he did last year as a rookie is unbelievable.....the dude almost rushed for 1000 yds and scored 10 Td's after missing some pre-season and a rough knee injury and he was a rookie.......im sorry we cant have adrian peterson and chris johnson.....guess we should have drafted Jamal Charles right???? who knew...not haley he kept him on the bench untill he had no choice to play charles becasue of injuries.....:lol:

the last rookie we had in denver to rush for over 900 yds and score 10 Td's there rookie year??????

Clinton Portis....thats 8 years of having no RB gain more than 900 yds or score 10 Td's there rookie year...if you ask me we just progressed.....he may not have the highlights people love to use to judge a player from you tube.....but the guy battled for us last year.....he made mistakes just like many players did all over the team last year, but the OL was a huge reason for fail last year....People just need to realize that.....if the OL wasnt a big deal...we wouldnt have done what we did attempting to rehaul what hasnt worked overall since portis in 2002, we may have had the yds and the no name rushers like andersen and griffin and droughns...but when it mattered playoffs, short situations, goalline we failed every year ........the first year we start going away from the ZBS more and leaning towards a power O....we get our first 900 yd...10 TD runner WITH A ROOKIE!!!!!! since portis and people are bitching?????

really????? just funny to me i guess.....maybe people forget selvin young's 2000 yd proclamation..lets bring him back...:lol:

Elevation inc
05-11-2010, 01:17 PM
Dean didn't say that the offensive line was completely innocent and maybe Buckhalter did have a couple misreads but he still managed to have a ypc of 5.4 while Moreno had a 3.8 behind the same offensive line. So it's not fair to put all the blame on the offensive line.

bucky also only had 1 TD, whats more important YPC or TD's....im pretty sure they dont use YPC to determine who wins....i will take a 3.8 and 10 td's from a rookie any day over a injury prone back who cant stay healthy and proved it so last year and a 5.4 YPC and 1 TD.....bucky is a compliment nothing more.....he is good and i like him but the hate from moreno surrounding his 3.8 as a rookie is juts retarded......

Elevation inc
05-11-2010, 01:19 PM
Buck averaged a decent 5.4 yards per carry. He made the correct reads and the rushing offense was effective when he was in the game. Moreno ran with even more impatience as the season progressed.

I am in not way saying that Moreno can't be a premier ball carrier. I am just m:coffee:aking the the "Knowshon can do no wrong" crowd aware that their assertion that the O-line was our problem in reality was only a piece of the problem.



THIS i a fair point and i agree fully:salute:

but i also hasten knowshon is a rookie, thats a fact of life and he was better than any rookie rusher we had in denver since portis in 2002

Lonestar
05-11-2010, 01:27 PM
Folks I watch the OLINE a lot being an old OG and while the rookie missed some reads, the oline did him NO favors in opening holes.

when they did for the most part he did OK to damned good.

But when they did not while meeting a LB in the backfield is not fun.

I have always been a subscriber that you win and lose games at the LOS and we lost a lot of games last year with failed execution at the LOS on BOTH
sides of it.

As someone said 285 pound interior guys going one on one against someone that is 40 to 80 pounds bigger just does not make for warm and fizzy thoughts of the RB's or QB for that matter.

Yes, Bucky averaged more and had some really good games but without going game for game I'm going to say the circumstances are different.

Again I only saw 8 or so games last year that I could tape and really watch the LOS but I know what I know the OLINE did not help the Offense for parts of the season at all. When harris went down there was just no help from kuper for casey as he was busy watching his ORT and Hamilton has been a liability for along time. You might be able to compensate for one weak link on the OLINE but having 3 at once is a bit much.

WARHORSE
05-11-2010, 04:42 PM
For those who watch and understand running, it was easy to see that Moreno was impatient and running blind many times.

His running, with the exception of I think one game, was impatient and lacking vision. He looked like Tatum Bell running lower with more power.....yet still running where the hole was supposed to be.

This is the NFL. The hole moves, and you have to move with it. :salute:


Terrell Davis was excellent at running patient and reading defenses.....setting up waiting LBers. Moreno doesnt have that as of yet, and its not a sure thing that he will get it.

Personally I think the game hasnt slowed for him yet. In college he showed vision, but college is a little more wide open.

Hes not using his eyes.

Best way to describe his running at this point is like a throroughbred out of the starting gate at the Kentucky Derby.

Other than one game, he ran like that the whole year.

Eyes wide.....nostrils flared.....full speed.....straight ahead.


Hopefully the game will slow for him. If it doesnt...........he will be a bust at the 12th pick.

BigBroncLove
05-11-2010, 05:33 PM
For those who watch and understand running, it was easy to see that Moreno was impatient and running blind many times.

His running, with the exception of I think one game, was impatient and lacking vision. He looked like Tatum Bell running lower with more power.....yet still running where the hole was supposed to be.

This is the NFL. The hole moves, and you have to move with it. :salute:


Terrell Davis was excellent at running patient and reading defenses.....setting up waiting LBers. Moreno doesnt have that as of yet, and its not a sure thing that he will get it.

Personally I think the game hasnt slowed for him yet. In college he showed vision, but college is a little more wide open.

Hes not using his eyes.

Best way to describe his running at this point is like a throroughbred out of the starting gate at the Kentucky Derby.

Other than one game, he ran like that the whole year.

Eyes wide.....nostrils flared.....full speed.....straight ahead.


Hopefully the game will slow for him. If it doesnt...........he will be a bust at the 12th pick.

Well and there is a chance that Moreno isn't your one cut and go type of runner that Bobby Turner teaches. I would add that the Line wasn't exactly pulling their weight, especially for runs up the gut. So its more than just Moreno, but I hear what you're saying. However not every system of running is the one cut run down hill type Bobby Turner teaches and perhaps with the move away from zone blocking and a little more flexibility for Moreno outside of the one cut run style (since Bobby Turner departed) will allow him to make up further ground. Don't take this as a slight against Bobby Turner. I still think he is one of the best RB coaches around, but there are other ways of getting the job done in the NFL then the one cut system he teaches.

I'm hopeful for Moreno. However the real article is about Bucky and I have to say you just love reading what he has to say. Guy is a class act and I hope none of his previous injuries come into play this year. If no new injuries, or old injuries resurface, I think Buckhalter can really help open up the run game in Denver again. Of course its a team sport so hopefully the Broncos can get all cylinders rolling for a ground attack, but this type of article by Buckhalter makes you root for him to succeed.

broncobryce
05-11-2010, 06:30 PM
Buck is awesome, hopefully he can stay healthy. Reason Buck only had 1 TD? Moreno was the short yardage/goal line back. Reason Moreno's YPC was lower? Part of the reason is he was the short yardage/goal line back.

Italianmobstr7
05-11-2010, 06:45 PM
It definitely was a combination of both. Moreno wasn't the best rookie RB of all time, and our line was far from the 97-98 teams. I think with a new blocking system, bigger O-lineman and a year in this offense Knowshon will have a much better year this time around. I think our O-line is now bigger and stronger than it was. I watched every play last season like most of you did, and you're flat lying to yourself if you think that there wasn't more than a few plays where Knowshon was face to face with a LB right after getting the handoff. On the flip side, Knowshon did miss holes here and there. It's a 2 way street. All that said though, I think Knowshon will improve a lot this season.

Tned
05-11-2010, 07:00 PM
Folks I watch the OLINE a lot being an old OG and while the rookie missed some reads, the oline did him NO favors in opening holes.

when they did for the most part he did OK to damned good.

But when they did not while meeting a LB in the backfield is not fun.

I have always been a subscriber that you win and lose games at the LOS and we lost a lot of games last year with failed execution at the LOS on BOTH
sides of it.

As someone said 285 pound interior guys going one on one against someone that is 40 to 80 pounds bigger just does not make for warm and fizzy thoughts of the RB's or QB for that matter.

Yes, Bucky averaged more and had some really good games but without going game for game I'm going to say the circumstances are different.


RC explained it better than me. So it bears repeating.


For those who watch and understand running, it was easy to see that Moreno was impatient and running blind many times.

His running, with the exception of I think one game, was impatient and lacking vision. He looked like Tatum Bell running lower with more power.....yet still running where the hole was supposed to be.

This is the NFL. The hole moves, and you have to move with it. :salute:

...

snip

....

Other than one game, he ran like that the whole year.

Eyes wide.....nostrils flared.....full speed.....straight ahead.


Hopefully the game will slow for him. If it doesnt...........he will be a bust at the 12th pick.

I like Moreno and think he has potential, but except for a few games/runs, he simply didn't look that good. In the games when Buck and Moreno both played, Buck consistantly outgained him behind the same O-line. Buck both did a better job of finding the holes, and then a better job of exploding once he hit the hole.

dogfish
05-11-2010, 07:14 PM
buckhalter is an easy guy to like, and it's hard not to root for him after what he's fought through in his career. . . he's an effective back as long as you keep him within a limited role-- unfortunately, that role is a lot more limited than you'd like. . . the guy has never topped 130 carries in a season for his career. . . he's a pure change of pace guy, and you're basically not asking for but demanding trouble if you ask any more than that from him. . .

clearly mcD is aware of buck's limitations. . . .

i have to admit, the possiblity of him going down this year worries the hell out of me. . . i hope moreno has been killing the weight room and his conditioning this offseason, because we're probably going to have to run him into the ground. . . our RB depth is beyond pathetic, and it's extrememly disappointing to me that we haven't added another usable back. . . hate to say it, but buck has been tremendously fragile throughout his career. . .

i'm afraid there's a good chance we'll be relying on street free agent types for significant carries by mid-season. . .

Tned
05-11-2010, 07:20 PM
i'm afraid there's a good chance we'll be relying on street free agent types for significant carries by mid-season. . .

Guess you're not counting on 200 carries from Arrington? (I think we signed him again)

dogfish
05-11-2010, 07:30 PM
Guess you're not counting on 200 carries from Arrington? (I think we signed him again)

i wouldn't count on 20 GOOD ones. . . that guy sucks, he's a total waste as a ballcarrier-- 3.6 career yards per carry, and he's so bad at it they basically stopped trying after his rookie year. . .

i haven't the faintest idea what mcdaniels sees in the guy. . . at the very best, he's a serviceable kick returner who can give you a few catches out of the backfield-- and even that was when he had good knees. . . at the "top of his game" he was an end of the roster type. . . after a year out of football, and coming off a knee injury that kept him out all of last year, i question whether he's going to have anything left at all. . .

naturally i hope he proves me wrong, but i didn't like the signing last year, and i like it even less this time around. . . i have serious doubt as to whether he would've even gotten a chance anywhere else if we hadn't signed him. . .

if he has to play any significant number of snaps for us at RB, it's likely to be an unmitigated disaster. . .

broncobryce
05-11-2010, 07:45 PM
i wouldn't count on 20 GOOD ones. . . that guy sucks, he's a total waste as a ballcarrier-- 3.6 career yards per carry, and he's so bad at it they basically stopped trying after his rookie year. . .

i haven't the faintest idea what mcdaniels sees in the guy. . . at the very best, he's a serviceable kick returner who can give you a few catches out of the backfield-- and even that was when he had good knees. . . at the "top of his game" he was an end of the roster type. . . after a year out of football, and coming off a knee injury that kept him out all of last year, i question whether he's going to have anything left at all. . .

naturally i hope he proves me wrong, but i didn't like the signing last year, and i like it even less this time around. . . i have serious doubt as to whether he would've even gotten a chance anywhere else if we hadn't signed him. . .

if he has to play any significant number of snaps for us at RB, it's likely to be an unmitigated disaster. . .

I was wondering too why we didn't pick up a RB somewhere. The undrafted guy is supposedly good, but obviously, he wasn't drafted......
I probably like JJ Arrington more than you do but you are right, he's been out of football and I don't think anyone was beating down his door to sign him. Maybe Tebow will be our 3rd string rb? ;)

TXBRONC
05-11-2010, 11:17 PM
i wouldn't count on 20 GOOD ones. . . that guy sucks, he's a total waste as a ballcarrier-- 3.6 career yards per carry, and he's so bad at it they basically stopped trying after his rookie year. . .

i haven't the faintest idea what mcdaniels sees in the guy. . . at the very best, he's a serviceable kick returner who can give you a few catches out of the backfield-- and even that was when he had good knees. . . at the "top of his game" he was an end of the roster type. . . after a year out of football, and coming off a knee injury that kept him out all of last year, i question whether he's going to have anything left at all. . .

naturally i hope he proves me wrong, but i didn't like the signing last year, and i like it even less this time around. . . i have serious doubt as to whether he would've even gotten a chance anywhere else if we hadn't signed him. . .

if he has to play any significant number of snaps for us at RB, it's likely to be an unmitigated disaster. . .

Arrington is the next Chad Mustard. :heh:

honz
05-11-2010, 11:30 PM
I agree that Buckhalter was the better runner last year, but Moreno being in for 3rd and short and goal line carries where our line would get pushed into the backfield certainly didn't help his YPC average.

WARHORSE
05-12-2010, 12:52 AM
i wouldn't count on 20 GOOD ones. . . that guy sucks, he's a total waste as a ballcarrier-- 3.6 career yards per carry, and he's so bad at it they basically stopped trying after his rookie year. . .

i haven't the faintest idea what mcdaniels sees in the guy. . . at the very best, he's a serviceable kick returner who can give you a few catches out of the backfield-- and even that was when he had good knees. . . at the "top of his game" he was an end of the roster type. . . after a year out of football, and coming off a knee injury that kept him out all of last year, i question whether he's going to have anything left at all. . .

naturally i hope he proves me wrong, but i didn't like the signing last year, and i like it even less this time around. . . i have serious doubt as to whether he would've even gotten a chance anywhere else if we hadn't signed him. . .

if he has to play any significant number of snaps for us at RB, it's likely to be an unmitigated disaster. . .

Arrington is good in space behind the LOS, and he blocks. The reason he was always on the field on third and long at Arizona was because he picks up the blitz, blocks hard, and can catch out of the backfield.

He also can return K.O.s.

Id rather have Arrington than Lamont Jordan. Lets just put it that way. :D

WARHORSE
05-12-2010, 12:56 AM
Well and there is a chance that Moreno isn't your one cut and go type of runner that Bobby Turner teaches. I would add that the Line wasn't exactly pulling their weight, especially for runs up the gut. So its more than just Moreno, but I hear what you're saying. However not every system of running is the one cut run down hill type Bobby Turner teaches and perhaps with the move away from zone blocking and a little more flexibility for Moreno outside of the one cut run style (since Bobby Turner departed) will allow him to make up further ground. Don't take this as a slight against Bobby Turner. I still think he is one of the best RB coaches around, but there are other ways of getting the job done in the NFL then the one cut system he teaches.

I'm hopeful for Moreno. However the real article is about Bucky and I have to say you just love reading what he has to say. Guy is a class act and I hope none of his previous injuries come into play this year. If no new injuries, or old injuries resurface, I think Buckhalter can really help open up the run game in Denver again. Of course its a team sport so hopefully the Broncos can get all cylinders rolling for a ground attack, but this type of article by Buckhalter makes you root for him to succeed.

Agreed. But at the same time, there were many runs last year where it wasnt a one cut and downhill for Moreno. A lot of the time he forgot the 'one cut' portion of the run, and just went downhill.

If hes doing that this coming year six games into the season, Im gonna be calling for his carries to go down.:salute:

Elevation inc
05-12-2010, 01:53 AM
so i guess we can all agree the line had fault and moreno was a rookie who needs to improve.....Sounds good....


thanks for the article dean.....

broncosinindy
05-12-2010, 04:02 AM
Dean didn't say that the offensive line was completely innocent and maybe Buckhalter did have a couple misreads but he still managed to have a ypc of 5.4 while Moreno had a 3.8 behind the same offensive line. So it's not fair to put all the blame on the offensive line.
And if you remember even Buck said he had differant assignments exccuse me if it is not the exact same thing he said. Buckhalter ran alot of runs outside and Moreno ran ALOT between the takles.

In the end Moreno didnt always get done what needed to be done and the same thing with the oline.

With another year in the leauge and hopeuflly some better lineman in front of him we should have a better run game this year

TXBRONC
05-12-2010, 10:25 AM
And if you remember even Buck said he had differant assignments exccuse me if it is not the exact same thing he said. Buckhalter ran alot of runs outside and Moreno ran ALOT between the takles.

In the end Moreno didnt always get done what needed to be done and the same thing with the oline.

With another year in the leauge and hopeuflly some better lineman in front of him we should have a better run game this year

There were several reasons that why the Moreno had a tough go of it. Moreno and line share in blame and I think our starting quarterback share in it as well.

arapaho2
05-12-2010, 12:10 PM
And if you remember even Buck said he had differant assignments exccuse me if it is not the exact same thing he said. Buckhalter ran alot of runs outside and Moreno ran ALOT between the takles.

In the end Moreno didnt always get done what needed to be done and the same thing with the oline.

With another year in the leauge and hopeuflly some better lineman in front of him we should have a better run game this year


to be honest to Buck...74% of his attempts came between the tackles

if you wanna get even more technical...35% of bucks attempts came straight up the gut..opposed to 28% of morenos

rcsodak
05-12-2010, 12:56 PM
Why didn't Buck get tackled behind the LOS?

He didn't? :confused:

Tned
05-12-2010, 12:58 PM
He didn't? :confused:

Obviously he did. What I meant was that those saying that all, or most, of the problem with Moreno was the O-line, and that he was routinely tackled behind the LOS, don't explain why Buck ran for almost 2 YPC more than Moreno.

The argument that Moreno was always met in the backfield by defenders doesn't seem to hold water, since Buckhalter routinely found holes.

rcsodak
05-12-2010, 01:06 PM
RC explained it better than me. So it bears repeating.



I like Moreno and think he has potential, but except for a few games/runs, he simply didn't look that good. In the games when Buck and Moreno both played, Buck consistantly outgained him behind the same O-line. Buck both did a better job of finding the holes, and then a better job of exploding once he hit the hole.

:eek:

RC on the brain?

rcsodak
05-12-2010, 01:10 PM
buckhalter is an easy guy to like, and it's hard not to root for him after what he's fought through in his career. . . he's an effective back as long as you keep him within a limited role-- unfortunately, that role is a lot more limited than you'd like. . . the guy has never topped 130 carries in a season for his career. . . he's a pure change of pace guy, and you're basically not asking for but demanding trouble if you ask any more than that from him. . .

clearly mcD is aware of buck's limitations. . . .

i have to admit, the possiblity of him going down this year worries the hell out of me. . . i hope moreno has been killing the weight room and his conditioning this offseason, because we're probably going to have to run him into the ground. . . our RB depth is beyond pathetic, and it's extrememly disappointing to me that we haven't added another usable back. . . hate to say it, but buck has been tremendously fragile throughout his career. . .

i'm afraid there's a good chance we'll be relying on street free agent types for significant carries by mid-season. . .

Dog, I think it's been clearly shown through the history of the league, that rookies hit that "wall". They're coming out of their college season, working out for the combine, at team facility, at their pro days, then into rookie camps, OTA's, summer camp, preseason and then the rigors of the NFL.
I don't think KM's any different than any other rookie, in that now that he (they) has the offseason to rest and realize what he has to work on and improve in.
I'm sure getting bigger and stronger is the first of his priorities.

dogfish
05-12-2010, 01:11 PM
:eek:

RC on the brain?

this is your brain on drugs:

http://img689.imageshack.us/img689/4493/78219643.png (http://img689.imageshack.us/i/78219643.png/)

Uploaded with ImageShack.us (http://imageshack.us)


this is your brain on RC:

http://img192.imageshack.us/img192/1827/pa1a06scrambledeggslg.jpg (http://img192.imageshack.us/i/pa1a06scrambledeggslg.jpg/)

Uploaded with ImageShack.us (http://imageshack.us)


:heh:

rcsodak
05-12-2010, 01:14 PM
to be honest to Buck...74% of his attempts came between the tackles

if you wanna get even more technical...35% of bucks attempts came straight up the gut..opposed to 28% of morenos

Maybe you can check, rap, but how many of those attempts of buck's came AFTER Harris went out?

I'm curious.

dogfish
05-12-2010, 01:14 PM
Dog, I think it's been clearly shown through the history of the league, that rookies hit that "wall". They're coming out of their college season, working out for the combine, at team facility, at their pro days, then into rookie camps, OTA's, summer camp, preseason and then the rigors of the NFL.
I don't think KM's any different than any other rookie, in that now that he (they) has the offseason to rest and realize what he has to work on and improve in.
I'm sure getting bigger and stronger is the first of his priorities.

i certainly hope that's the case. . . my post wasn't meant to criticise the kid-- just noting that i think he's likely going to be asked to shoulder a very heavy workload this year. . . even if buck stays healthy, he's never been good for much more than a hundred carries, and our depth at the position is negligible. . .

rcsodak
05-12-2010, 01:16 PM
this is your brain on drugs:

http://img689.imageshack.us/img689/4493/78219643.png (http://img689.imageshack.us/i/78219643.png/)

Uploaded with ImageShack.us (http://imageshack.us)


this is your brain on RC:

http://img192.imageshack.us/img192/1827/pa1a06scrambledeggslg.jpg (http://img192.imageshack.us/i/pa1a06scrambledeggslg.jpg/)

Uploaded with ImageShack.us (http://imageshack.us)


:heh:


First one looks like boobies :shocked:

rcsodak
05-12-2010, 01:18 PM
i certainly hope that's the case. . . my post wasn't meant to criticise the kid-- just noting that i think he's likely going to be asked to shoulder a very heavy workload this year. . . even if buck stays healthy, he's never been good for much more than a hundred carries, and our depth at the position is negligible. . .

I agree. And that is why he was a 1st rd pick.

I just hope he doesn't suck like Maroney.

Elevation inc
05-12-2010, 01:38 PM
Maybe you can check, rap, but how many of those attempts of buck's came AFTER Harris went out?

I'm curious.

neitehr runner did well when harris went down...his loss has been so underated...even daniel graham and kuper admitetd as much after the season.....they also had to try and use graham alot more on the right side, so that could be why clady always was on a island and allowed a few more sacks...well that and ortons lack of mobility....:lol:

Lonestar
05-12-2010, 01:45 PM
Obviously he did. What I meant was that those saying that all, or most, of the problem with Moreno was the O-line, and that he was routinely tackled behind the LOS, don't explain why Buck ran for almost 2 YPC more than Moreno.

The argument that Moreno was always met in the backfield by defenders doesn't seem to hold water, since Buckhalter routinely found holes. Once again not quite the true here.

I know of NO one that said Morenos was always met in the back field.

IIRC they said he was tackled behind the LOS on many occasions.

Which he was because the LOS did not make holes for him and HE hesitated

There are NO absolutes in Football other than to start a play the center has to snap the ball or the kicker has to kick the ball.

Beyond that every thing is not absolute.

Of the games I saw Bucky made plays, even if the holes were not pristine as Moreno seemed to need.

But let be factual our LOS OLINe was not a strong point or hamilton and casey would not have been in a sense fired.

They would not have brought in 5-6 OLINE types over the last two years if they thought the OLINE was all that special.

I think it is fair to say that the ONLY two that are worth keeping are Clady and Kuper with the jury still out on Harris. and Maybe even Kuper since he was playing between two weak sister for much of the year, how can you really veal him till he has time to play with some decent folks next to him.

arapaho2
05-12-2010, 02:57 PM
Maybe you can check, rap, but how many of those attempts of buck's came AFTER Harris went out?

I'm curious.

you know that may take some investigation

arapaho2
05-12-2010, 03:25 PM
to get the splits on carries inside or outside seperated by games is more than i'd willing to do


but i will show this

with harris
buck averaged...5.9 ypc
without harris.....4.8

moreno...3.8 with harris
without harris ...3.8

moreno was equally bad whether harris was in or out

and equally average is morenos average to either side
he averaged 3.7 going to the right side...3.7 to the left

all in all moreno was ..pretty average:coffee:

rcsodak
05-12-2010, 10:44 PM
to get the splits on carries inside or outside seperated by games is more than i'd willing to do


but i will show this

with harris
buck averaged...5.9 ypc
without harris.....4.8

moreno...3.8 with harris
without harris ...3.8

moreno was equally bad whether harris was in or out

and equally average is morenos average to either side
he averaged 3.7 going to the right side...3.7 to the left

all in all moreno was ..pretty average:coffee:

:eek:

You mean, a Rookie?!?!?!

:D

thx rap

Mr D
05-13-2010, 12:40 AM
to get the splits on carries inside or outside seperated by games is more than i'd willing to do


but i will show this

with harris
buck averaged...5.9 ypc
without harris.....4.8

moreno...3.8 with harris
without harris ...3.8

moreno was equally bad whether harris was in or out

and equally average is morenos average to either side
he averaged 3.7 going to the right side...3.7 to the left

all in all moreno was ..pretty average:coffee:

Yeah - no one wants to talk about how LT averaged 3.6 YPC in his rookie year.

And 3.9 YPC 3 years later.

Or how Marshall Faulk averaged 4.1 YPC rookie year, then went on to average 3.7 the following year, and 3.0 YPC the next

Nah - let's not talk about all that. :lol:

arapaho2
05-13-2010, 10:13 AM
Yeah - no one wants to talk about how LT averaged 3.6 YPC in his rookie year.

And 3.9 YPC 3 years later.

Or how Marshall Faulk averaged 4.1 YPC rookie year, then went on to average 3.7 the following year, and 3.0 YPC the next

Nah - let's not talk about all that. :lol:

go ahead and talk about it..in fact knock yourself out

because that wasnt the point...the point attempted to be made by some is that the oline caused moreno to be average....the other oft stated point was that moreno faultered without harris

i just showed moreno was average whether harris played, whether he went inside our out, to cladys side or not...just average

another point was buck averaged more yards because he ran more outside and moreno between the tackles so therfore he got less per carry

i only showed IN THAT CONTEXT BUCKHALTER RAN INSIDE A BIGGER % OF HIS CARRIES THAN MORENO, So it wasnt why moreno got a smaller ypc

what do you get out of this?..clearly if buck can produce better with the same oline...inside or outside, with harris or without..then morenos troubles cannot be just stated as blocking problems...and has more to do with

a. being a rookie

or

b. not the back he was hyped to be

Lonestar
05-13-2010, 11:32 AM
Moreno had some nice runs when the blocking was there REGARDLESS of his avgearge.

As did Bucky. But when the holes were NOT there he was met behind the LOS because there was NO Blocking.

Stats are wonderful but only show part of the story.

He and BUCKY have admited that HE did not alaways read the defenses well or made a cut when he should have. That being a ROOKIE he would be better at it this year with the practice and off season to watch tapes

Now IF he is still at 3.8 YPC after the season PERHAPS he was not all that was hyped.

Being a Bronco I'm going to support him and hope the OLINE plus his maturation will shine this coming year.

BTW bucky being 10-12 pounds haervier did not hurt him in breaking tackles either.

FWIW I would never take a RB in the draft scheduled to be the main RB that is less than 220 pounds. I do not care how good he is 220 is my minimium for an every down guy. I would look at a smaller type for a change of pace guy that can also play on STs
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arapaho2
05-13-2010, 12:17 PM
Moreno had some nice runs when the blocking was there REGARDLESS of his avgearge.

As did Bucky. But when the holes were NOT there he was met behind the LOS because there was NO Blocking.

Stats are wonderful but only show part of the story.

He and BUCKY have admited that HE did not alaways read the defenses well or made a cut when he should have. That being a ROOKIE he would be better at it this year with the practice and off season to watch tapes

Now IF he is still at 3.8 YPC after the season PERHAPS he was not all that was hyped.

Being a Bronco I'm going to support him and hope the OLINE plus his maturation will shine this coming year.

BTW bucky being 10-12 pounds haervier did not hurt him in breaking tackles either.

FWIW I would never take a RB in the draft scheduled to be the main RB that is less than 220 pounds. I do not care how good he is 220 is my minimium for an every down guy. I would look at a smaller type for a change of pace guy that can also play on STs
Mobile Post via Mobile.BroncosForums.com/forums

yes and a big part of the story you all tend to forget is the qb and the shallow scheme led to alot of the blocking issues

if your wrs are dragging not only both cbs but both safties deeper...and your TE is dragging a nickle or LBR across the middle...its alot easier to get the edge, or get into the open....then it is if your pass catching te is on the bench therfore the linback is free to make a play...your wrs are running short curls or outs 3-5 yards deep therfore the cbs are still in a position to seal the edge, and your safties can fill the interior gaps

its easier to run in a open field than a tight congested one

ps...hillis had 30 pounds on moreno...just as nimble, better hands and nearly as fast...maybe a fundemental mistake not giving him the ball more in short yardage situations..

Mr D
05-13-2010, 12:22 PM
go ahead and talk about it..in fact knock yourself out

because that wasnt the point...the point attempted to be made by some is that the oline caused moreno to be average....the other oft stated point was that moreno faultered without harris

i just showed moreno was average whether harris played, whether he went inside our out, to cladys side or not...just average

another point was buck averaged more yards because he ran more outside and moreno between the tackles so therfore he got less per carry

i only showed IN THAT CONTEXT BUCKHALTER RAN INSIDE A BIGGER % OF HIS CARRIES THAN MORENO, So it wasnt why moreno got a smaller ypc

what do you get out of this?..clearly if buck can produce better with the same oline...inside or outside, with harris or without..then morenos troubles cannot be just stated as blocking problems...and has more to do with

a. being a rookie

or

b. not the back he was hyped to be
Clearly - it was being a rookie. Buckhalter is a saavy vet whose career experience has allowed him to understand the flow and find the holes/make the reads much better.

The Oline was an issue - it was getting pushed back at the snap of the ball consistently. I watched every single game and it was clear as day.

Knowshon's performance was due to not ONLY himself but in addition to the oline.

I don't think anyone here is saying that he was oh so great and then oline purely failed him.

Oline blocked poorly, and at times he played poorly.

Between Knowshon not touching a football until pre-season, injurying his MCL at the beginning of the season, and all leading all RB rookies, I think you're hating just a bit.

We ran zone blocking plays and power blocking plays, and combine that with his rookie status, after 2 years of college, he will be fine.

A lot of his problems are obviously rookie problems. To sit here and pound away at statistics pretty much shows me you didn't watch many the games.

If you did - you'd understand why and where people are getting their views of the oline from.

Mr D
05-13-2010, 12:24 PM
yes and a big part of the story you all tend to forget is the qb and the shallow scheme led to alot of the blocking issues

if your wrs are dragging not only both cbs but both safties deeper...and your TE is dragging a nickle or LBR across the middle...its alot easier to get the edge, or get into the open....then it is if your pass catching te is on the bench therfore the linback is free to make a play...your wrs are running short curls or outs 3-5 yards deep therfore the cbs are still in a position to seal the edge, and your safties can fill the interior gaps

its easier to run in a open field than a tight congested one

ps...hillis had 30 pounds on moreno...just as nimble, better hands and nearly as fast...maybe a fundemental mistake not giving him the ball more in short yardage situations..

lol @ just as nimble and nearly as fast.

:lol: yeah, there is a reason why not he didn't end up back with Shanny and he ended up with the Browns.

Ya'll are a joke when it comes to this Hillis love

arapaho2
05-13-2010, 12:42 PM
Clearly - it was being a rookie. Buckhalter is a saavy vet whose career experience has allowed him to understand the flow and find the holes/make the reads much better.

The Oline was an issue - it was getting pushed back at the snap of the ball consistently. I watched every single game and it was clear as day.

Knowshon's performance was due to not ONLY himself but in addition to the oline.

I don't think anyone here is saying that he was oh so great and then oline purely failed him.

Oline blocked poorly, and at times he played poorly.

Between Knowshon not touching a football until pre-season, injurying his MCL at the beginning of the season, and all leading all RB rookies, I think you're hating just a bit.

We ran zone blocking plays and power blocking plays, and combine that with his rookie status, after 2 years of college, he will be fine.

A lot of his problems are obviously rookie problems. To sit here and pound away at statistics pretty much shows me you didn't watch many the games.

If you did - you'd understand why and where people are getting their views of the oline from.

for you to ignore them shows you didnt..i havent missed a game in over a decade...

arapaho2
05-13-2010, 12:42 PM
lol @ just as nimble and nearly as fast.

:lol: yeah, there is a reason why not he didn't end up back with Shanny and he ended up with the Browns.

Ya'll are a joke when it comes to this Hillis love

isnt that because mcd traded him to the browns?:listen:

arapaho2
05-13-2010, 12:47 PM
lol @ just as nimble and nearly as fast.

:lol: yeah, there is a reason why not he didn't end up back with Shanny and he ended up with the Browns.

Ya'll are a joke when it comes to this Hillis love


FYI

morenos combine 40..4.68
hillis combine at 240# 4.57

roomemp
05-13-2010, 01:05 PM
yes and a big part of the story you all tend to forget is the qb and the shallow scheme led to alot of the blocking issues

if your wrs are dragging not only both cbs but both safties deeper...and your TE is dragging a nickle or LBR across the middle...its alot easier to get the edge, or get into the open....then it is if your pass catching te is on the bench therfore the linback is free to make a play...your wrs are running short curls or outs 3-5 yards deep therfore the cbs are still in a position to seal the edge, and your safties can fill the interior gaps

its easier to run in a open field than a tight congested one

ps...hillis had 30 pounds on moreno...just as nimble, better hands and nearly as fast...maybe a fundemental mistake not giving him the ball more in short yardage situations..

Nothing about Hillis's running style was nimble. I thought Hillis was a nice player but I believe he was overhyped. Not because he was a bad player or because I don't think he could be a solid option at some point, but because a group of Broncos fans and sports writers fell in love with his hard nose, not nimble, three game stretch.

Moreno will come into his own. Cut the guy some slck. He was a rook.

roomemp
05-13-2010, 01:09 PM
FYI

morenos combine 40..4.68
hillis combine at 240# 4.57

Speed does not equal nimbleness......Speed is speed.....Nimbleness is nimbleness. Two seperate things.

arapaho2
05-13-2010, 01:12 PM
Nothing about Hillis's running style was nimble. I thought Hillis was a nice player but I believe he was overhyped. Not because he was a bad player or because I don't think he could be a solid option at some point, but because a group of Broncos fans and sports writers fell in love with his hard nose, not nimble, three game stretch.

Moreno will come into his own. Cut the guy some slck. He was a rook.


wrong ...hillis was very nimble...im not saying he shoulda been the rb..im saying when jr states moreno wasnt as big as buck to get those tuff yards..remember we had a guy who could do it

as for nimble...review thier combine numbers in the drills...hillis was every bit as good or nearly so for a fb that outweighed moreno by 30 pounds

i am also not condemming moreno...more like the excuses played out fo him

rcsodak
05-30-2010, 02:16 AM
yes and a big part of the story you all tend to forget is the qb and the shallow scheme led to alot of the blocking issues

if your wrs are dragging not only both cbs but both safties deeper...and your TE is dragging a nickle or LBR across the middle...its alot easier to get the edge, or get into the open....then it is if your pass catching te is on the bench therfore the linback is free to make a play...your wrs are running short curls or outs 3-5 yards deep therfore the cbs are still in a position to seal the edge, and your safties can fill the interior gaps

its easier to run in a open field than a tight congested one

ps...hillis had 30 pounds on moreno...just as nimble, better hands and nearly as fast...maybe a fundemental mistake not giving him the ball more in short yardage situations..

Name me an NFL Head Coach that PURPOSEFULLY doesn't put his BEST players on the field.

This "we would have been better if...." BS concerning Hillis is ridiculous, biased and unfettered nonsense.

I liked him as much, if not more, than the next guy, but for one reason or another, he wasn't getting it done in practice, warranting his MIA status on the field.

underrated29
05-30-2010, 02:58 PM
1. Buck does not have better vision than moreno. Whoever said that. Buck uses it better and is a vet. But Moreno does have better vision than him weather he uses it or not- remaines to be seen.

2. I am not going to slam buck because I like him and since he is a vet, knowshon is a rook, they ran different packages etc. It is really hard to compare the two.


3- MOst importantly!!
I wrote something similar to this on another site, but Knowshon is going to TEAR it up this year. Instead of listing all the reasons why...I invite any and or all of you to do this:
Go back and watch all of Knoshons runs last year.

On almost Every single carry- if he was not hit behind or at the LOS- He would typically cain 6-7 yards consistently!!!!!!! Often times for 8-10.

On the plays he was it at the LOS-i'd say about 65-70% of the time he would plunce forward for about 3-5 yards. Which is not have bad.

The plays that he was hit behind the LOS- Id say about 20% of the time he would turn it into a +1-2 yards. Most of the time he would get back to the LOS.



Now obviously, he has to stop tripping himself up, read the holes better, etc etc etc. He is far from perfect. But he is off the charts in pretty much every cateogry except Chris Johnson speed. He is by far and away my fav player on the broncos besides 19. And while I was disappointed with his rookie year. I can see the package he brings to the table (not in a ghey way) and am fairly certain that all the haters will switch fences quickly. Esp after week 8.

Dean
05-30-2010, 04:48 PM
1. Buck does not have better vision than moreno. Whoever said that. Buck uses it better and is a vet. But Moreno does have better vision than him weather he uses it or not- remaines to be seen.

Knowshon has better vision but he just chooses not to use it? Is that what you are saying?????


2. I am not going to slam buck because I like him and since he is a vet, knowshon is a rook, they ran different packages etc. It is really hard to compare the two.


So. . . . .Buckhalter was just running the more successful package???



3- MOst importantly!!
I wrote something similar to this on another site, but Knowshon is going to TEAR it up this year. Instead of listing all the reasons why...I invite any and or all of you to do this:
Go back and watch all of Knoshons runs last year.

I guess I had better do that because that isn't what I saw.


On almost Every single carry- if he was not hit behind or at the LOS- He would typically cain 6-7 yards consistently!!!!!!! Often times for 8-10.

On the plays he was it at the LOS-i'd say about 65-70% of the time he would plunce forward for about 3-5 yards. Which is not have bad.

The plays that he was hit behind the LOS- Id say about 20% of the time he would turn it into a +1-2 yards. Most of the time he would get back to the LOS.

If that were really the case, how do you explain the 3.8 yards per carry average? He was not hit at or behind the line of scrimmage every single play.



Now obviously, he has to stop tripping himself up, read the holes better, etc etc etc. He is far from perfect. But he is off the charts in pretty much every cateogry except Chris Johnson speed. He is by far and away my fav player on the broncos besides 19. And while I was disappointed with his rookie year. I can see the package he brings to the table (not in a ghey way) and am fairly certain that all the haters will switch fences quickly. Esp after week 8.

Your first sentence in this paragraph explains Knowshon's ineffectiveness. Now, having said that, I do hope that he improves after having a year of experience. I don't want a rerun of last year. The haters as you call them just want the production from the running game that the Broncos had been known for.

rcsodak
05-30-2010, 05:09 PM
1. Buck does not have better vision than moreno. Whoever said that. Buck uses it better and is a vet. But Moreno does have better vision than him weather he uses it or not- remaines to be seen.

2. I am not going to slam buck because I like him and since he is a vet, knowshon is a rook, they ran different packages etc. It is really hard to compare the two.


3- MOst importantly!!
I wrote something similar to this on another site, but Knowshon is going to TEAR it up this year. Instead of listing all the reasons why...I invite any and or all of you to do this:
Go back and watch all of Knoshons runs last year.

On almost Every single carry- if he was not hit behind or at the LOS- He would typically cain 6-7 yards consistently!!!!!!! Often times for 8-10.

On the plays he was it at the LOS-i'd say about 65-70% of the time he would plunce forward for about 3-5 yards. Which is not have bad.

The plays that he was hit behind the LOS- Id say about 20% of the time he would turn it into a +1-2 yards. Most of the time he would get back to the LOS.



Now obviously, he has to stop tripping himself up, read the holes better, etc etc etc. He is far from perfect. But he is off the charts in pretty much every cateogry except Chris Johnson speed. He is by far and away my fav player on the broncos besides 19. And while I was disappointed with his rookie year. I can see the package he brings to the table (not in a ghey way) and am fairly certain that all the haters will switch fences quickly. Esp after week 8.

LMAO!

Does KM wear Fruit of the Looms or BVD's?

If you take everything you just stated at face value, he'd have a HELL of alot higher ypc average than he did.

:lol:

TXBRONC
05-30-2010, 06:37 PM
Knowshon has better vision but he just chooses not to use it? Is that what you are saying?????

That left me scratching my head as well.

Under I don't want pile on but saying that Knowshon has better vision than Buckhalter but might be choosing not to use it doesn't make any sense.

I like Moreno and was not in anyway disappointed that we drafted him but come on Under he did struggle. That doesn't mean he can't or wont get better but it is a fair criticism to say that he struggled.

underrated29
05-31-2010, 04:18 PM
umm. I am not sure what the hell I was saying. I do not even remember typing in this thread. I must have been wasted or something....? I dont understand..

Please ignore as I do not want to decipher the post.

rcsodak
05-31-2010, 10:34 PM
umm. I am not sure what the hell I was saying. I do not even remember typing in this thread. I must have been wasted or something....? I dont understand..

Please ignore as I do not want to decipher the post.

Just admitting you're wrong makes better sense. :tsk:













:lol:

Maybe we should be allowed to hand out TWI/TUI citations

underrated29
05-31-2010, 10:57 PM
Just admitting you're wrong makes better sense. :tsk:


:lol:

Maybe we should be allowed to hand out TWI/TUI citations









I could do that too. BUt honestly I am not sure that it was me.....But I have had a long weird weekend so anything is possible. Still need to figure out how to post pics from my camera phone.

GGMoogly
05-31-2010, 11:11 PM
As goes Buckhalter, so go the Broncos...:coffee:

Dean
06-01-2010, 07:29 AM
Name me an NFL Head Coach that PURPOSEFULLY doesn't put his BEST players on the field.

This "we would have been better if...." BS concerning Hillis is ridiculous, biased and unfettered nonsense.

I liked him as much, if not more, than the next guy, but for one reason or another, he wasn't getting it done in practice, warranting his MIA status on the field.

IMO and from personal experience coaches do on occasion not play the most talented player. It may be a discipline issue, a lack of technique, a lack of knowledge. or any number of other issues. I think the last game is an indication of McD doing just that. Having not been at practice we don't know what the reason(s) were but we did see Hillis highly effective the year before and in the midseason game in which was given carries.

Coaches do have personal egos. Sometimes a player gets more or less playing time based upon those personal biases.

IMO the "we would be better if" statements have a basis in the reality from the previous year and are far from unfettered BS.

TXBRONC
06-01-2010, 09:35 AM
IMO and from personal experience coaches do on occasion not play the most talented player. It may be a discipline issue, a lack of technique, a lack of knowledge. or any number of other issues. I think the last game is an indication of McD doing just that. Having not been at practice we don't know what the reason(s) were but we did see Hillis highly effective the year before and in the midseason game in which was given carries.

Coaches do have personal egos. Sometimes a player gets more or less playing time based upon those personal biases.

IMO the the "we would be better if" statements have a basis in the reality from the previous year and are far from unfettered BS.

Jimmy Johnson intentionally didn't play the best players after the Herschel Walker trade. He admitted readily that the players that he got from Minnesota were better than players he had starting but he didn't play them so that he could exercise his option to get all those Minnesota draft picks that formed the nucleus to the team that 3 Super Bowls in four years.

TXBRONC
06-01-2010, 09:37 AM
As goes Buckhalter, so go the Broncos...:coffee:

Are you kidding? When Tim Tebow was drafted the team's heart beat became one with his. :D

arapaho2
06-01-2010, 02:57 PM
Name me an NFL Head Coach that PURPOSEFULLY doesn't put his BEST players on the field.

This "we would have been better if...." BS concerning Hillis is ridiculous, biased and unfettered nonsense.

I liked him as much, if not more, than the next guy, but for one reason or another, he wasn't getting it done in practice, warranting his MIA status on the field.


raiders with marcus allen ring a bell?

i said hillis was just as fast..just as nimble and outweighed moreno by 30 pounds and that may have been a fundemental mistake not giving him the ball more in situations

and i never said hillis was the best player did i?..exxaggerate much