Someone please remind me.. [Archive]

Mr D

05-08-2010, 03:45 AM

He wasn't cut - he was traded w/5th round pick for Quinn.

And please - I can watch a video about Lelie and wonder why he wasn't kept.

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Tebow4Ever

05-08-2010, 03:52 AM

He wasn't cut - he was traded w/5th round pick for Quinn.

And please - I can watch a video about Lelie and wonder why he wasn't kept.

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Same difference when it comes to the value..Cleveland got a steal, hopefully they will utililize him with that amazing :rolleyes: running game they have there.

Mr D

05-08-2010, 03:58 AM

Same difference when it comes to the value..Cleveland got a steal, hopefully they will utililize him with that amazing :rolleyes: running game they have there.

"Hopefully"? Why?

We didn't even play a play-off game with Hillis... not sure why it's a big deal.

Fans seem to fall in love with players while losing sight of the bigger picture.

Tebow4Ever

05-08-2010, 04:10 AM

"Hopefully"? Why?

We didn't even play a play-off game with Hillis... not sure why it's a big deal.

Fans seem to fall in love with players while losing sight of the bigger picture.

Does being a fan mean only enjoying the players and what they do if it's in a playoff game? I dont understand why people say that.. No knock on you Mr D,I just mean that when I see him bowling people over, or being so aware of where his feet are in order to get himself several more yards. THATS a damn good running back and if we HAD kept him..and actually used him to his strengths. We may have been in several more games which in turn..yes, would have possibly won a playoff game with him. That's all.:beer:

LRtagger

05-08-2010, 07:40 AM

Hillis sucks

titan

05-08-2010, 07:58 AM

Mr D

05-08-2010, 08:45 AM

I like Hillis and wish we had kept in. I think the reason he was dealt, though, was that he wasn't the all around type of player McDaniels likes. McD tried using Hillis on special teams but it didnt' work out (he fumbled on one kickoff return, for example) Hillis also wasn't a very good blocker. If you don't contribute on special teams and you aren't a starter on a McD team, you aren't going to be around very long.

Oh Hillis didn't just fumble - he blew coverages on ST and go man handled out of his gaps throughout the season - one that cost us against the Eagles.

Hillis said himself he's a dumbass - so I highly doubt he understood 10% of what was going on in the offense.

MileHighCrew

05-08-2010, 08:56 AM

If Quinn is half as good as reported so far this offseason this trade was a steal for Denver. I don't count what happened with him in Cleveland, I think he can be a very good QB

GEM

05-08-2010, 09:00 AM

Same difference when it comes to the value..Cleveland got a steal, hopefully they will utililize him with that amazing :rolleyes: running game they have there.

Cleveland got a 7th round draft pick who couldn't stay on the field and who couldn't remember snap counts. Quit making him bigger than he was. I LOVE Hillis, but come on...he wasn't being utilized and it was better for him to move on. Should we have kept him on a roster he wasn't going to be used on or should we allow him to move on and hopefully get some playing time elsewhere.

Lonestar

05-08-2010, 09:17 AM

I really liked the kid especially after what he accomplished in 08.

Why he did not click in 09 will forever be a mystery to me.

I wish him well in CLE and look forward to seeing IF he gets it in his second year.
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jrelway

05-08-2010, 09:43 AM

Lonestar

05-08-2010, 10:09 AM

after watching that vid, one things for sure, jake sure knew how to sell that playaction.

After that I guess one could say that Jake made him the "best he could be" cause he sure sucked it up in ATL and SFO. :laugh::laugh::laugh: :laugh::laugh::laugh: :laugh::laugh::laugh::laugh::laugh:

Denver Native (Carol)

05-08-2010, 10:23 AM

WHY Peyton Hillis was "traded". I know he was not used much last year and there was some justification with him going to another team so that he could get some playing time, But after watching this.. Im just again....DUMBFOUNDED

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cSjDe0WDuCg&feature=related

He was traded because it was a decision that was made by the head coach - just like decisions made by ALL head coaches, based on their reasons for doing so.

CoachChaz

05-08-2010, 10:28 AM

The Browns are so enamored with the abilities and potential of Harrison and Hillis that they felt the need to draft another back early. Hardesty will be the starter on that team with Harrison as the backup and Hillis as the fullback that gets spot carries.
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05-08-2010, 11:02 AM

after watching that vid, one things for sure, jake sure knew how to sell that playaction.

No shit. Kinda made me miss him.

Rusty Shackleford

05-08-2010, 11:07 AM

The FB position in football is doomed. Hillis was vastly overrated.

Day1BroncoFan

05-08-2010, 11:09 AM

We traded Hillis because McD doesn't think he's the best player fot the job.

Tned

05-08-2010, 11:35 AM

We traded Hillis because McD doesn't think he's the best player fot the job.

This sums it up. I don't remember which game it was, but the game about 2/3 of the way through the season, where Buck got hurt early, and the only backs were Moreno and Hillis. He ran Moreno into the ground, and he got worse and worse throughout the game, gaining nothing, and looking horrible, while I think he put Hillis in for either one series or one play, and I don't think even a single carry.

That made it clear that McDaniels did not see Hillis as capable of carrying the ball, even when his option was a Moreno so tired he could barely walk back to the huddle or Hillis. He chose Moreno in that spot.

It might be that we see Hilis perform if given the chance to carry the ball, or it might be that other head coaches have the same concern about giving Hillis the ball.

Carries aside, Hillis biggest talent is as a receiver out of the backfield. As many of his teammates said, he had the best hands on the team. Other than that one game under Shanahan where he has the 100 yards catching, neither coach really used him as a receiving option. I thought that with our high flying, 3 yard fly route offense, that Hillis might have been a weapon catching out of the backfield, but again he was never used that way in the games he played.

If Quinn shows even a glimpse of his pre-draft potential, then it was clearly a good trade. If not, it still wasn't a bad trade, because McDaniels didn't consider Hillis a player that could produce.

As an aside, don't be surprised that if another factor in getting rid of Hillis was the distraction. Just ask Lindsey Jone or Frank Schwab what percentage of the questions they got from fans were about Hillis, and as a result, how much of the Broncos press conferences were dedicated to a 7th round pick that wasn't getting any playing time.

jhildebrand

05-08-2010, 11:53 AM

He was traded because it was a decision that was made by the head coach - just like decisions made by ALL head coaches, based on their reasons for doing so.

Most HC's don't make those decisions. For most teams, a real GM makes those decisions.

jhildebrand

05-08-2010, 12:03 PM

Hillis sucks

Geez. What do you think of Moreno then? :confused: Hillis never fumbled the ball out of the backfield. Hillis found a way to get a 100 yard game on limited carries.

Seems to me by that logic Moreno must be nothing short of the worst back in the league.

I like Hillis and wish we had kept in. I think the reason he was dealt, though, was that he wasn't the all around type of player McDaniels likes. McD tried using Hillis on special teams but it didnt' work out (he fumbled on one kickoff return, for example) Hillis also wasn't a very good blocker. If you don't contribute on special teams and you aren't a starter on a McD team, you aren't going to be around very long.

I liked Hillis too. I think he would have been a better option at any point than LaMont Jordan. I definitely think there is a reason Jordan got carries before Hillis and it has to do with McDaniels taking Moreno. McDaniels had to defend that pick from day one. If Hillis outshined him even in the slightest, he would have to defend it even more. Not only that, it makes the pick look worse when there was already a capable back on the roster.

As for Hillis not being an all around type player, I am not really sure what you mean. The guy can line up at FB/RB/TE off the line. A coaching staff with plenty of people who have been in the league 30+ years felt he was the best hands they had EVER seen.

Finally, ST's? :confused: Funny, I don't recall Moreno playing ST's. I guess Moreno wont be around long.

I really liked the kid especially after what he accomplished in 08.

Why he did not click in 09 will forever be a mystery to me.

I wish him well in CLE and look forward to seeing IF he gets it in his second year.
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Ultimately, it is a mystery to me as well. I am inclined to believe it has everything to do with taking Moreno. Ultimately, Hillis lack of playing time in 09 has way more to do with McDaniels, as he has admitted, then it does Hillis himself.

I look forward to Hillis being a force in Cleveland and then hearing some of these posters contradict themselves.

Tned

05-08-2010, 12:15 PM

Ultimately, it is a mystery to me as well. I am inclined to believe it has everything to do with taking Moreno. Ultimately, Hillis lack of playing time in 09 has way more to do with McDaniels, as he has admitted, then it does Hillis himself.

I look forward to Hillis being a force in Cleveland and then hearing some of these posters contradict themselves.

I doubt that McDaniels refused to play Hillis so as to not make his Moreno pick look bad. I think McDaniels is too focused on winning for that type of game.

Instead, as you indicated in your post, Hillis was held to a different standard than Moreno. Not only as fans, as you pointed out, but also by McDaniels. Remember, Hillis was given a couple goal line chances early in the season, week 2 I think. He had a false start (hence the not knowing the snap count mentioned earlier) and he failed to convert a 2nd and 3rd and goal. On fourth and goal, Jordan also failed to convert, but that doesn't change the fact that it really comes down to that series that defined Hillis' entire season for some fans.

Later, he also did fumble a kickoff, but was he the only player to fumble a kick off? Becasue Hillis was a fan favorite, some fans have held him to a much higher standard than other players, not just Moreno.

Back to McDaniels, if you go the route of saying that it was Hillis fumbled kick off and false start on first and goal, then it is hard to understand the defense of Moreno who not only lost several fumbles, but had at least that many handed back to him because of quick whistles, blown calls or penalties on the other side before his fumble.

I like Moreno, and think he is going to be a good back for us, so I am not slamming Moreno, simply agreeing that the Crucifixion of Hillis over two plays is kind of silly considering how poorly Moreno played much of the year.

BroncoWave

05-08-2010, 12:24 PM

I doubt that McDaniels refused to play Hillis so as to not make his Moreno pick look bad. I think McDaniels is too focused on winning for that type of game.

Agreed. That is such a ridiculous and bull-headed opinion to have on this topic. Josh McDaniels has never had a losing season in his life in football. He is all about winning. Do you REALLY think he would sacrifice trying to win games just to justify a draft pick? Sorry but I just don't buy that. That's not how he's wired.

Lonestar

05-08-2010, 12:49 PM

Geez. What do you think of Moreno then? :confused: Hillis never fumbled the ball out of the backfield. Hillis found a way to get a 100 yard game on limited carries.

Seems to me by that logic Moreno must be nothing short of the worst back in the league.

I liked Hillis too. I think he would have been a better option at any point than LaMont Jordan. I definitely think there is a reason Jordan got carries before Hillis and it has to do with McDaniels taking Moreno. McDaniels had to defend that pick from day one. If Hillis outshined him even in the slightest, he would have to defend it even more. Not only that, it makes the pick look worse when there was already a capable back on the roster.

As for Hillis not being an all around type player, I am not really sure what you mean. The guy can line up at FB/RB/TE off the line. A coaching staff with plenty of people who have been in the league 30+ years felt he was the best hands they had EVER seen.

Finally, ST's? :confused: Funny, I don't recall Moreno playing ST's. I guess Moreno wont be around long.

Ultimately, it is a mystery to me as well. I am inclined to believe it has everything to do with taking Moreno. Ultimately, Hillis lack of playing time in 09 has way more to do with McDaniels, as he has admitted, then it does Hillis himself.

I look forward to Hillis being a force in Cleveland and then hearing some of these posters contradict themselves.

Yo make some great points.

Let me say I do not think Josh would sacrifice his "boy" in the race to prove a point?

it boils down to one of tow things either Hillis is dumber that a rock and could not get up to speed with the play book or Josh caught the guy grabing his wifes ass.:laugh::laugh::laugh:

Y'all have to remember that mike and bobby did not play the guy until there was NO ONE left on the team.

there are also rumors that Bobby was the guy that gave the reps to the RB's in practice and told Josh who was ready and up to speed. Therefore it could have been Bobby T both years that held Hillis back.

We will probably Never know for sure what happened.

I thought he was one of those players that tried harder and gave it more than 100% when on the field. a true gamer and that was what baffled me about him not getting playing time.

I always saw Hillis as the Kevin Faulk of this team, the short yardage guy, lots of inside the 2 TD's, that had lots of catches out of the backfield.

josh said on several occasions that HIllis and Eddie were going to see more touches this coming year.

Guess the chance to get QUinn was the deal breaker.

silkamilkamonico

05-08-2010, 12:50 PM

LMAO

The guy was an NFL FB.

Big deal.

LMFAO

nevcraw

05-08-2010, 01:10 PM

WHY Peyton Hillis was "traded"

He loved.. and he cared just too much..

atwater27

05-08-2010, 02:12 PM

Hillis is a perfect example of McDaniels inability to evaluate personell and to use players strengths to our advantage.

Lonestar

05-08-2010, 02:17 PM

Hillis is a perfect example of McDaniels inability to evaluate personell and to use players strengths to our advantage.

IT Maybe and maybe not. Remember that one of the most respected RB coaches in the NFL did not see it either or maybe did and had a woody for him like the year before.

It is way to easy to place all of the blame in Joshes hind pocket when it may not be.

Northman

05-08-2010, 02:18 PM

Agreed. That is such a ridiculous and bull-headed opinion to have on this topic. Josh McDaniels has never had a losing season in his life in football. He is all about winning. Do you REALLY think he would sacrifice trying to win games just to justify a draft pick? Sorry but I just don't buy that. That's not how he's wired.

Agreed. I dont agree with everything McD does but to think he would sit a player just so he could be right about a draft pick is moronic beyond belief. You dont sacrifice your job security just to prove that one player was a solid pick. :lol:

Tempus Fugit

05-08-2010, 02:49 PM

Hillis is a perfect example of McDaniels inability to evaluate personell and to use players strengths to our advantage.

Actually, Hillis is a perfect example of a team getting rid of a player who's not very good and doesn't fit the newly installed system, and getting something for that player in return.

By the way, how many fullbacks do you think the Patriots, with a similar system, carried last season?

Lonestar

05-08-2010, 02:50 PM

Actually, Hillis is a perfect example of a team getting rid of a player who's not very good and doesn't fit the newly installed system, and getting something for that player in return.

By the way, how many fullbacks do you think the Patriots, with a similar system, carried last season?
Kevin Faulk may not be listed as FB but for almost a decade he has been one.

Northman

05-08-2010, 02:53 PM

Kevin Faulk may not be listed as FB but for almost a decade he has been one.

He has?

dogfish

05-08-2010, 02:55 PM

it's all part of the master plan. . .

dogfish

05-08-2010, 02:58 PM

Kevin Faulk may not be listed as FB but for almost a decade he has been one.

no he hasn't. . . . :lol::lol:

he's a 200 pound scat back, he couldn't lead block to save his life. . . he plays out of single back sets on third down and obvious passing situations. . .

silkamilkamonico

05-08-2010, 03:04 PM

Patriots don't use a lead blocker in that system. If they want a blocker in the backfield for short yardage runs, they simply motion a TE into the backfield, or line him up there from the start.

The FB position is a dying one in this day and age.

HORSEPOWER 56

05-08-2010, 03:05 PM

no he hasn't. . . . :lol::lol:

he's a 200 pound scat back, he couldn't lead block to save his life. . . he plays out of single back sets on third down and obvious passing situations. . .

Sammy Morris and Benjarvis Green-Ellis are the closest thing the Pats have to a FB. Both are used to pound the ball. Kevin Faulk is about the farthest thing you can get to a FB.

dogfish

05-08-2010, 03:06 PM

Sammy Morris and Benjarvis Green-Ellis are the closest thing the Pats have to a FB. Both are used to pound the ball. Kevin Faulk is about the farthest thing you can get to a FB.

yep. . . and a couple years back, they used heath evans in that role. . .

LRtagger

05-08-2010, 03:32 PM

We already have a FB on the roster. He's a linebacker and he took Hillis' spot on the depth chart even under Shanahan.

It has nothing to do with McD and Moreno or any other idiotic excuse someone else can come up with. He was a 7th round pick, he was beat out by a rookie linebacker at the FB position, he wasn't given many carries by Mike until he had no other options, he made a lot of dumbass mistakes in 09.

I remember from camp last year under Josh, Hillis was getting a majority of the carries all summer. Josh gave him some opportunities in preseason and also at the beginning of the year. Obviously Hillis didn't impress him. Time to move on.

C'est la vie.

Lonestar

05-08-2010, 04:23 PM

Guess your defintion of FB is different than Mine.

I see the spot as the short yadage specailist that makes the TD close in and picks up those 3rd and shorts to move the chains. Also see that guy as catching balls out of the backfield. All of which Faulk does for the Pats. Even IF they do not call him a FB.
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33 Kevin Faulk RB
Height: 5-8 Weight: 202
Year: 12 Yrs/Pat: 12
Acquired: D2-99 (46th overall)
School: Louisiana State
Major: Kinesiology
Born: Jun 5, 1976 Lafayette Louisiana

almost a human bowling ball

nevcraw

05-08-2010, 04:35 PM

Holmgren who is from the true school of Walsh (even more than Shanny) will look to Hillis to play the Tom Rathman rill in the WCO. Strong running and a even greater pass catcher moreso than a helmet to helmet blocker. If they get good balance on Offense, he will be very efective in that role..
Wish he was here but glad to see him wanted..

scott.475

05-08-2010, 07:00 PM

Do you REALLY think he would sacrifice trying to win games just to justify a draft pick?

I do, absolutely. That is not to say he is going about it in a vindictive way or anything, and I have no doubt he wants to win. I also have no doubt he wants to put HIS stamp on the team, which is understandable. I still don't fully understand why McD has so much sway in personnel decisions, given his youth, but he has it. Frankly, I can't imagine any coach in his same position working to justify his first draft picks as a coach and being so self confident that he can make his picks work that he his willing to give them more opportunities than others who may be a better player.

I am not going to go through and compare posts, and I really, really hope Tebow works out for us, but I do wonder how many folks who defend McD over the Hillis deal are critical of his Tebow pick?

Again, I am not saying McD does not want to win or anything, I know he does. But I also truly believe he wants to win HIS way and with HIS people. Hillis was sat pretty much the whole season for a couple early season mistakes, Moreno played all year and fumbled a boat load of balls, though not all were lost. McD wants to win with his people and his picks.

BroncoWave

05-08-2010, 08:49 PM

I do, absolutely. That is not to say he is going about it in a vindictive way or anything, and I have no doubt he wants to win. I also have no doubt he wants to put HIS stamp on the team, which is understandable. I still don't fully understand why McD has so much sway in personnel decisions, given his youth, but he has it. Frankly, I can't imagine any coach in his same position working to justify his first draft picks as a coach and being so self confident that he can make his picks work that he his willing to give them more opportunities than others who may be a better player.

I am not going to go through and compare posts, and I really, really hope Tebow works out for us, but I do wonder how many folks who defend McD over the Hillis deal are critical of his Tebow pick?

Again, I am not saying McD does not want to win or anything, I know he does. But I also truly believe he wants to win HIS way and with HIS people. Hillis was sat pretty much the whole season for a couple early season mistakes, Moreno played all year and fumbled a boat load of balls, though not all were lost. McD wants to win with his people and his picks.

If McDaniels TRULY thought Hillis gave them a better chance to win than Moreno, I just don't believe he would have sat him as much as he did. I mean he also picked Ayers in the first round but he didn't give him minutes that should have gone to someone else.

jhildebrand

05-09-2010, 10:34 AM

If McDaniels TRULY thought Hillis gave them a better chance to win than Moreno, I just don't believe he would have sat him as much as he did. I mean he also picked Ayers in the first round but he didn't give him minutes that should have gone to someone else.

In part because nobody else was really there to take over for Ayers.

When it comes to Moreno, there certainly were times where Hillis was TRULY the better player and gave them a better option i.e. late in the season when Moreno was running on a banged up ankle and admittedly against the rookie wall.

At a minimum Hillis was clearly a step up from Jordan and even then he didn't get those carries/snaps.

jhildebrand

05-09-2010, 10:40 AM

You dont sacrifice your job security just to prove that one player was a solid pick. :lol:

Orton, Quinn, and then Tebow show Josh has plenty of security and isn't worried about it.

Shoot, if McD was worried about job security he wouldn't have moved Cutler in the first place. He surely wouldn't have benched Marshall and Scheffler for the last game of the season and for the circumstances that he did.

This has nothing to do with job security. McDaniels has plenty of that!

jhildebrand

05-09-2010, 11:08 AM

it boils down to one of tow things either Hillis is dumber that a rock and could not get up to speed with the play book or Josh caught the guy grabing his wifes ass.:laugh::laugh::laugh:

Well, Shanahan's system is regarded as one of the toughest to learn. Hillis first learned the FB position and spent time there at camp getting reps as FB.

He then quickly learned the play book as a RB. I don't think intelligence is an issue.

Y'all have to remember that mike and bobby did not play the guy until there was NO ONE left on the team.

Hillis saw snaps in the preseason. Hillis impressed early on that is what cause Shanahan to pronounce that Hillis had the best hands on the team and amongst the best he has ever seen.

Broncolingus

05-09-2010, 11:13 AM

I think most people 'liked' Hillis (me included) because he came across as a solid hard working player/person and good role model...and I sincerely wish him luck wherever he goes.

...I think the context of the thread was more meant to question/slam McD because he doesn't know what he's doing and made a mistake in trading Hillis...

Fair enough...

After Hillis' makes the Pro-Bowl 2-3 times consecutively, then I'll conceed it was a mistake to get rid of him...

...until, then, I have faith the coach and organization know more about it then me.

Lonestar

05-09-2010, 02:55 PM

Well, Shanahan's system is regarded as one of the toughest to learn. Hillis first learned the FB position and spent time there at camp getting reps as FB.

He then quickly learned the play book as a RB. I don't think intelligence is an issue.

Hillis saw snaps in the preseason. Hillis impressed early on that is what cause Shanahan to pronounce that Hillis had the best hands on the team and amongst the best he has ever seen.

I just read the other day that Casey commented on JOSHES schema as being the most difficult one he had seen in his football career.