PDA

View Full Version : John Lynch trying to disprove skeptics



Ziggy
05-08-2008, 03:40 AM
Lynch trying to disprove skeptics
Lynch believes his play this year will silence detractors
By Lee Rasizer, Rocky Mountain News (Contact)
Thursday, May 8, 2008


John Lynch has found another muse beyond his usual offseason, self-motivation tactics: doubt.

It's not his own misgivings but the skepticism of others that drives the Broncos safety as he goes through three daily workouts, seven days a week.

Lynch is convinced there's a segment in his own organization that believes his time as a full-time player has perhaps come and gone.

And while he has been down this path before, when a neck injury led to his release by the Tampa Bay Buccaneers in 2004, the vibe feels different this time.

Having to take a pay cut in early March just to stay in Denver was one signal about his current standing in the organization's eyes. Even more telling was the cold shoulder he believes he received from some within the organization after his decision to return.

Both, he said, let him know how he's perceived at this juncture of his career.

"I think there's a split among the staff," Lynch said Wednesday after recognizing the academic, athletic and community achievements of young student leaders at his "Salute the Stars" program's annual banquet. "Some were happy for me to come back and some didn't say anything -- which tells you something."

Lynch believes coach Mike Shanahan is in his corner, "but there were some people who probably felt they were better without me" or, more succinctly, that he had become a "situational player."

Lynch, a nine-time Pro Bowl selection, including each of the past four seasons, admitted that running into such resistance was "hard to figure out" and that it "woke me up a little."

But he said he's not blind to his advancing football age, acknowledging that while "there are things you lose," hard work and experience can help combat those deficiencies.

Lynch is combating his skeptics by trying to whip himself into the best shape of his life.

"You don't get your feelings hurt, because if you've been around this long, it's going to happen," he said. "You look at the great players, Hall of Fame players, it's happened to and it's just the nature of the beast in this game. But while your feelings aren't hurt, your pride hurts a little. And I'm going to show them -- that's my attitude."

Lynch, 37 in September, likely will be a starter at a minicamp that begins May 19, but it more reflects his accumulated time on the Broncos roster than his roster standing. Hamza Abdullah, free-agent pickups Marlon McCree and Marquand Manuel and draftee Josh Barrett will get their chances to impress this summer, and the best two will win out.

"I've never been afraid of competition. But it's a little different in that the last 12 years of my career, I've had a job and it was someone's job to come and beat me out," Lynch said, adding he has been assured he'll get a fair shot at a full-time job. "This year, I don't think at this position there are any jobs. There are four or five guys and they're saying, 'Have at it.' It kind of fires me up."
Lynch is working out in San Diego, apart from the Broncos' offseason strength and conditioning program. But he stressed that has more to do with family issues and a comfort level with his longtime personal trainer, Pete Egoscue, than any issues with the team.

Lynch said he has Shanahan's blessing and Broncos strength coach Rich Tuten, whom the safety said he admires, also is on board with his regimen.

"I kind of wanted to get back to my roots," Lynch said.

And the goal of his workouts?

"I'm trying to turn back time. I'm doing everything I can to do that. And while Pro Bowls aren't everything, I have made the last four and it wasn't a fluke. I can still play the game at a high level and am ready to play it at an even higher level this year."

As his charitable foundation extols, life is about striving for extraordinary things. He's taking a page from that philosophy and trying to apply it to his longtime profession.

"For a guy to play at an All-Pro level in his 16th year is uncommon," he said. "But I think I can do it."

Lynch won't put any limitations on his moving forward. There will be no farewell tour because, even if he were to call it quits after this season, which he could, it's his belief it's counterproductive to enter a season with the mind-set the end is coming.

"I'm training to be the best I can be this year and we'll see again next year. I'm not going to make any commitments," he said. "People say all the time, 'This is going to be your last year.' But I don't know that."



Pushing the limits

John Lynch has worked with former Marine Pete Egoscue as his trainer for more than 20 years and they've resumed their partnership this offseason. Core fitness and postural alignment are chief principles toward delivering total-body health under Egoscue's regimen. Among the items on Lynch's to-do list:

* Daily workouts at 5 a.m., 11 a.m. and after dinner.

* A varied approach to fitness, including items such as bear crawls on the beach, running hills, yoga, intensive stretching, obstacle course and barefoot drops in the sand.

* More pull-ups than perhaps he has done in his basement, Rocky-style.

ssgtwc
05-08-2008, 05:14 AM
But it's a little different in that the last 12 years of my career, I've had a job and it was someone's job to come and beat me out," Lynch said, adding he has been assured he'll get a fair shot at a full-time job. "This year, I don't think at this position there are any jobs. There are four or five guys and they're saying, 'Have at it.' It kind of fires me up."

Could this be the year that he sets the record for fines with the hits he has inflicted in the past? j/k :laugh:

Kaylore
05-08-2008, 10:34 AM
John Lynch has worked with former Marine Pete Egoscue as his trainer for more than 20 years and they've resumed their partnership this offseason. Core fitness and postural alignment are chief principles toward delivering total-body health under Egoscue's regimen.

Egoscue is a brilliant man. He can do wonders for your posture and spine health just by following his simple regimen. It's not easy and takes time, but the payoff is huge.

NightTrainLayne
05-08-2008, 10:48 AM
A motivated (and healthy) John Lynch is an asset for our defense.

I'm excited to see his performance.

Davii
05-08-2008, 10:59 AM
I'm excited to see his performance.

You and me both.

BOSSHOGG30
05-08-2008, 12:08 PM
I wish John well, but I'm one of those guys who think his better years are behind him. I think he is a situation type player who is better off mentoring the Broncos younger players and being a team leader on and off the field for the Broncos organization.

NightTrainLayne
05-08-2008, 12:16 PM
I wish John well, but I'm one of those guys who think his better years are behind him. I think he is a situation type player who is better off mentoring the Broncos younger players and being a team leader on and off the field for the Broncos organization.

Boss, you're probably right. However, I have so much respect for Lynch, that I believe that if he puts in the effort, that he has the determination to still perform at a high level.

I could be wrong, and we'll see soon enough after the season starts. Lynch is just someone I pull for no matter what.

oubronco
05-08-2008, 12:21 PM
I wish John well, but I'm one of those guys who think his better years are behind him. I think he is a situation type player who is better off mentoring the Broncos younger players and being a team leader on and off the field for the Broncos organization.

I think that had alot to do with them resigning him

BOSSHOGG30
05-08-2008, 12:23 PM
Boss, you're probably right. However, I have so much respect for Lynch, that I believe that if he puts in the effort, that he has the determination to still perform at a high level.

I could be wrong, and we'll see soon enough after the season starts. Lynch is just someone I pull for no matter what.

I would rather Woodyard or McCree come in and make the move to SS. I think either one of these guys would do a better job.

NightTrainLayne
05-08-2008, 12:24 PM
I would rather Woodyard or McCree come in and make the move to SS. I think either one of these guys would do a better job.

If they do, then so be it. At least John will have made them earn it.

Davii
05-08-2008, 12:28 PM
If they do, then so be it. At least John will have made them earn it.

John will earn whatever his place and role on the team turns out to be. If he plays most of the downs then it will be because he has proven himself and earned that right.

I don't think Lynch has been handed anything by our organization.

Timmy!
05-08-2008, 03:59 PM
I'd like to see Lynch play about 60% of the snaps (if he earns the starting job, which, I think, he will). On nickel/dime/quarter packages he shouldn't be on the field because of his speed (lack there of). Great to hear he's motivated though, lets see how he performs in camp and preseason.

jrelway
05-08-2008, 04:25 PM
i'd like to see lynch come in on first down, and first down only.. im thankful for what lynch has contributed to this team, but his time has come..even his teammates know this. its good that shanny supports his veteran players but geez. time to let go.

dogfish
05-08-2008, 04:41 PM
you've gotta have a lot of respect for the passion and intensity lynch brings to the table-- he's a gamer, and this is clearly far more than just a job to him. . . he prepares and plays the game the right way. . .

that said, even the greats can't play forever. . . no matter how good his instincts, reads and positioning, there comes a point when intelligence and determination simply can't compensate for deteriorating physical skills any more. . . i'd love to see him turn back the clock and come back reinvigorated, in the best shape of his career. . . i'll never write off a competitor like lynch, but my gut says he's facing long odds to be more than a situational player this year. . .

he can still be effective in the running game, but i would think having him on the field full time could limit what slowik can do to a degree-- lynch just doesn't have the speed to man up with slot receivers and athletic tight ends any more, and the DC has to protect him from those matchups. . . from what i understand of slowik he likes to blitz, and the more man coverage we play the greater the need for quick-footed safeties (of course we can use lynch himself to blitz, but it does make you a bit more predictable if the offense knows he's going to be in the box most of the time). . .

i still think he has a solid chance to win a starting job out of camp, but my expectation is that one of the younger guys will be starting by the end of the year. . .

Skinny
05-08-2008, 05:20 PM
I'm glad Lynch decided to play another year. His return with the signings of the new guys give us some solid flexibility there, something we have'nt had and desperatly needed ... rather he's starting or not.

And it looks like he'll be playing with a chip on his shoulder, mo better for us and that question riddled defense.

Lonestar
05-08-2008, 06:16 PM
Lets hope that he is indeed still able to play at his normal intense level..

Losing him would be like losing an on field coach, not to mention his leadership qualities..

I'll hope that John will be able to show the new kids especially woodyard If they use him at Safety the tricks of the trade and woodyard by years end has beaten the master out of a job.. I could not think of a more fitting way to go for a class guy like John...

Would love to have him back next year a player/coach or a straight coach if he has indeed lost that step to father time.....

Most of the time that savvy old vet might be a step slower but he knows where he should be playing to make up for it..

Magnificent Seven
05-08-2008, 07:19 PM
John Lynch has found another muse beyond his usual offseason, self-motivation tactics: doubt.

It's not his own misgivings but the skepticism of others that drives the Broncos safety as he goes through three daily workouts, seven days a week.

Lynch is convinced there's a segment in his own organization that believes his time as a full-time player has perhaps come and gone.

And while he has been down this path before, when a neck injury led to his release by the Tampa Bay Buccaneers in 2004, the vibe feels different this time.

Having to take a pay cut in early March just to stay in Denver was one signal about his current standing in the organization's eyes. Even more telling was the cold shoulder he believes he received from some within the organization after his decision to return.

Both, he said, let him know how he's perceived at this juncture of his career.

"I think there's a split among the staff," Lynch said Wednesday after recognizing the academic, athletic and community achievements of young student leaders at his "Salute the Stars" program's annual banquet. "Some were happy for me to come back and some didn't say anything -- which tells you something."

Lynch believes coach Mike Shanahan is in his corner, "but there were some people who probably felt they were better without me" or, more succinctly, that he had become a "situational player."

Lynch, a nine-time Pro Bowl selection, including each of the past four seasons, admitted that running into such resistance was "hard to figure out" and that it "woke me up a little."

But he said he's not blind to his advancing football age, acknowledging that while "there are things you lose," hard work and experience can help combat those deficiencies.

Lynch is combating his skeptics by trying to whip himself into the best shape of his life.

"You don't get your feelings hurt, because if you've been around this long, it's going to happen," he said. "You look at the great players, Hall of Fame players, it's happened to and it's just the nature of the beast in this game. But while your feelings aren't hurt, your pride hurts a little. And I'm going to show them -- that's my attitude."

Lynch, 37 in September, likely will be a starter at a minicamp that begins May 19, but it more reflects his accumulated time on the Broncos roster than his roster standing. Hamza Abdullah, free-agent pickups Marlon McCree and Marquand Manuel and draftee Josh Barrett will get their chances to impress this summer, and the best two will win out.

"I've never been afraid of competition. But it's a little different in that the last 12 years of my career, I've had a job and it was someone's job to come and beat me out," Lynch said, adding he has been assured he'll get a fair shot at a full-time job. "This year, I don't think at this position there are any jobs. There are four or five guys and they're saying, 'Have at it.' It kind of fires me up."

Lynch is working out in San Diego, apart from the Broncos' offseason strength and conditioning program. But he stressed that has more to do with family issues and a comfort level with his longtime personal trainer, Pete Egoscue, than any issues with the team.

Lynch said he has Shanahan's blessing and Broncos strength coach Rich Tuten, whom the safety said he admires, also is on board with his regimen.

"I kind of wanted to get back to my roots," Lynch said.

And the goal of his workouts?

"I'm trying to turn back time. I'm doing everything I can to do that. And while Pro Bowls aren't everything, I have made the last four and it wasn't a fluke. I can still play the game at a high level and am ready to play it at an even higher level this year."

As his charitable foundation extols, life is about striving for extraordinary things. He's taking a page from that philosophy and trying to apply it to his longtime profession.

"For a guy to play at an All-Pro level in his 16th year is uncommon," he said. "But I think I can do it."

Lynch won't put any limitations on his moving forward. There will be no farewell tour because, even if he were to call it quits after this season, which he could, it's his belief it's counterproductive to enter a season with the mind-set the end is coming.

"I'm training to be the best I can be this year and we'll see again next year. I'm not going to make any commitments," he said. "People say all the time, 'This is going to be your last year.' But I don't know that."

Pushing the limits

John Lynch has worked with former Marine Pete Egoscue as his trainer for more than 20 years and they've resumed their partnership this offseason. Core fitness and postural alignment are chief principles toward delivering total-body health under Egoscue's regimen. Among the items on Lynch's to-do list:

* Daily workouts at 5 a.m., 11 a.m. and after dinner.

* A varied approach to fitness, including items such as bear crawls on the beach, running hills, yoga, intensive stretching, obstacle course and barefoot drops in the sand.

* More pull-ups than perhaps he has done in his basement, Rocky-style.

http://www.broncosforums.com/forums/newthread.php?do=newthread&f=3

scott.475
05-08-2008, 07:39 PM
Didn't mention anything about speed work in that article.

Anyway, I sure would like to see him able to contribute and to mentor the knew guys on how to tackle well.

TXBRONC
05-08-2008, 08:19 PM
Lynch's age doesn't bother me but his lack of foot speed is problematic.

Magnificent Seven
05-08-2008, 08:46 PM
Hey Ziggy. How come you stole my thread? I posted it earlier.

Sassy
05-08-2008, 09:21 PM
John Lynch has worked with former Marine Pete Egoscue as his trainer for more than 20 years and they've resumed their partnership this offseason. Core fitness and postural alignment are chief principles toward delivering total-body health under Egoscue's regimen. Among the items on Lynch's to-do list:

* Daily workouts at 5 a.m., 11 a.m. and after dinner.

* A varied approach to fitness, including items such as bear crawls on the beach, running hills, yoga, intensive stretching, obstacle course and barefoot drops in the sand.

* More pull-ups than perhaps he has done in his basement, Rocky-style.

Sweet! That's my man!
He also proved himself after the neck injury...

I Bleed Orange and Blue
05-08-2008, 09:48 PM
John Lynch has worked with former Marine Pete Egoscue as his trainer for more than 20 years and they've resumed their partnership this offseason. Core fitness and postural alignment are chief principles toward delivering total-body health under Egoscue's regimen. Among the items on Lynch's to-do list:

* Daily workouts at 5 a.m., 11 a.m. and after dinner.

* A varied approach to fitness, including items such as bear crawls on the beach, running hills, yoga, intensive stretching, obstacle course and barefoot drops in the sand.

* More pull-ups than perhaps he has done in his basement, Rocky-style.

Sweet! That's my man!
He also proved himself after the neck injury...

UGH that makes me exhausted just thinking about that........

TXBRONC
05-08-2008, 10:48 PM
John Lynch has worked with former Marine Pete Egoscue as his trainer for more than 20 years and they've resumed their partnership this offseason. Core fitness and postural alignment are chief principles toward delivering total-body health under Egoscue's regimen. Among the items on Lynch's to-do list:

* Daily workouts at 5 a.m., 11 a.m. and after dinner.

* A varied approach to fitness, including items such as bear crawls on the beach, running hills, yoga, intensive stretching, obstacle course and barefoot drops in the sand.

* More pull-ups than perhaps he has done in his basement, Rocky-style.

Sweet! That's my man!
He also proved himself after the neck injury...


He's always kept himself in top physical condition.

Stargazer
05-09-2008, 02:21 AM
I hope the new S's come in and supplant John Lynch and move him to the bench. Because, that is where he belongs as of today.

Ziggy
05-09-2008, 08:15 AM
Hey Ziggy. How come you stole my thread? I posted it earlier.

Ummm...no. Look at the times on the posts.

NameUsedBefore
05-09-2008, 08:25 AM
To be completely honest, I can't imagine John Lynch still being a starter at the end of this coming season or even half-way through it.

Ziggy
05-09-2008, 08:28 AM
I like the competition at safety. Going into the offseason it was one of the bigger concerns on this team, behind LT and DT. Bringing in Mcree and Manual obviously lit a fire under Lynch's butt. Maybe he can grab Josh Barrett and mentor him in camp and preseason. With Barrett's athletiscism, if any of Lynch's work ethic and football smarts rubbed off, the kid might just make it. I'm still curious as to whether or not Woodyard is going to be moved to S this season. Either way, we have some depth there now.

Northman
05-09-2008, 08:29 AM
I love his leadership but personally i think he is past his time. Everytime he makes a good hit he gets hit with a fine and he has slowed down tremendously in pass defending. I would of liked it better if he had become a secondary coach or something. I have a feeling he will hurt the team more on the field than help it. IMO

TheReverend
05-09-2008, 08:46 AM
I hope the new S's come in and supplant John Lynch and move him to the bench. Because, that is where he belongs as of today.

Something about counting chickens and hatching?

Premature to say the least, don't you think?

Why you wouldn't be hopeful about a return to playing at a high level instead of being hopeful that he rides the bench is beyond me...

Zweems56
05-09-2008, 08:50 AM
They're not going to put him on the field if he's not the best player available. Maybe in the past, but obviously the front office has shown some disappointment in his play of late. That means he's going to get a shot at camp but by no means is the job his outright. We have competition this year which is going to make ALL of our safeties better. I wouldnt be surprised in the least if this season is the best he's looked since he left tampa.

TheReverend
05-09-2008, 08:54 AM
I love his leadership but personally i think he is past his time. Everytime he makes a good hit he gets hit with a fine and he has slowed down tremendously in pass defending. I would of liked it better if he had become a secondary coach or something. I have a feeling he will hurt the team more on the field than help it. IMO

Are you paying the fine?

Everytime he makes one of those hits, it puts that hesitation into the opposing offense. Every ounce those players have of not wanting to take the hand off and not wanting that catch over the middle makes an undreamt of impact.

The majority of teams are made up this way. One safety who can really lay the wood, another who can play center field. The "elite" safeties rarely have coverage responsibilities anymore... Your Polamalu's, William's, Reed's spend more time playing a robber than doing anything else on the field.

Any detractors from Lynch's on-field impact need to flip back to 2007 and watch some games when he was on the bench.

Northman
05-09-2008, 08:58 AM
Are you paying the fine?

Everytime he makes one of those hits, it puts that hesitation into the opposing offense. Every ounce those players have of not wanting to take the hand off and not wanting that catch over the middle makes an undreamt of impact.

The majority of teams are made up this way. One safety who can really lay the wood, another who can play center field. The "elite" safeties rarely have coverage responsibilities anymore... Your Polamalu's, William's, Reed's spend more time playing a robber than doing anything else on the field.

Any detractors from Lynch's on-field impact need to flip back to 2007 and watch some games when he was on the bench.


Am i paying the fine? No. But that wasnt my point. I for one love a heavy hitting safety as Atwater is one of my alltime favorites. The league has pussified it so much that players cant play anymore. But, even though the Dainty Halls of the league might be scared to go across the middle it also makes John hesitate to hit them like he is used too. No matter how much money he makes i would guarantee he gets sick of paying fines like that on a regular basis. So that would definitely play a part in how he tackles and creates a lot of second guessing on his part. Add in the fact the guy has had some injury issues, some of which could make him paralyzed. Im not real comfortable with that and would hate to see the guy injured the rest of his life.

TheReverend
05-09-2008, 09:03 AM
Am i paying the fine? No. But that wasnt my point. I for one love a heavy hitting safety as Atwater is one of my alltime favorites. The league has pussified it so much that players cant play anymore. But, even though the Dainty Halls of the league might be scared to go across the middle it also makes John hesitate to hit them like he is used too. No matter how much money he makes i would guarantee he gets sick of paying fines like that on a regular basis. So that would definitely play a part in how he tackles and creates a lot of second guessing on his part. Add in the fact the guy has had some injury issues, some of which could make him paralyzed. Im not real comfortable with that and would hate to see the guy injured the rest of his life.

The day we have some on-field evidence of any hesitation in that man's body, I'll sign up with ya. Until then, leave the wrecking ball on there as long as he can punish like only he does... even if he's in a damn wheel chair.

Northman
05-09-2008, 09:06 AM
The day we have some on-field evidence of any hesitation in that man's body, I'll sign up with ya. Until then, leave the wrecking ball on there as long as he can punish like only he does... even if he's in a damn wheel chair.

Well, i always hope for the best, we shall see.

SOCALORADO.
05-09-2008, 12:22 PM
Well, i love Lynch as much as the next guy, but he clearly is a liability in coverage. He also cant make it through an entire game without a "neck pincher" or some other issue with his neck, which scares alot of us.
I do however feel that Lynch would be MORE than adequate as the SS.
And apprently i'm not the only one who feels this way, cause theres a guy over at Broncomoronia that drinks beers :beer: with McCree at the local Red Onion, and he says that Marlon TOLD him that Hes playing FS and Lynch is playing SS. As if we really needed the scoop, and we couldnt of just speculated on this possiblity ourselves,hmm?!?!?
Anyways, as we have been speculating for months since the McCree signing, more than likely Lynch at SS in run spport, helping at the line, and a steady, veteran who can still hit like McCree roaming the backfield as the FS, is a possible scenario, and one which many of us like.

I think also that if Barret showes signs of really taking to the defense, and shows the promise i think alot of us feel he capable of, then he will see time as well as the FS depending on the situation or down. Eventually taking over the FS position altogether.
Now as for the SS spot for the future, well thats easy!
Here he is.
Kevin Ellison, SS, USC
Height: 6-1. Weight: 220.
40 Time: 4.56.
Projected Round (2009): 1.
Kevin Ellison started every game as a sophomore for USC, notching 64 tackles and a pick. Knicknamed "Evil" Ellison, this guy scares people. Excellent tackler, BIG HITTER and pretty good in coverage.

http://youtube.com/watch?v=gWHe60faOm8
http://youtube.com/watch?v=sA7iUhVqiEw&feature=related

I know, i know, helmet to helmet, but i just LOVE watching 'ME'sean get his bell rung!
Hopefully with a deep class at safety again, "Evil" will fall to the 2nd and DEN can pick him up.

Lonestar
05-09-2008, 01:21 PM
Unless he has drop another step he will be the Qb of the DBs again this season.. His on the field smarts alone helps the entire group to be better..

God only knows taht we will need every advantage we can get. with all of the new bodies this team is going teo have on it with yet another new DC and scheme this year.. John will rarely get beat on the field by being out of position..

While outright speed is nice it is not everything..

dogfish
05-09-2008, 01:49 PM
I like the competition at safety. Going into the offseason it was one of the bigger concerns on this team, behind LT and DT. Bringing in Mcree and Manual obviously lit a fire under Lynch's butt. Maybe he can grab Josh Barrett and mentor him in camp and preseason. With Barrett's athletiscism, if any of Lynch's work ethic and football smarts rubbed off, the kid might just make it. I'm still curious as to whether or not Woodyard is going to be moved to S this season. Either way, we have some depth there now.

i really hope that barrett or woodyard (or both) work out. . . while i agree that it's nice to have some more options, i'm honestly not enamored with any of them. . . abdullah got badly exposed down the stretch last year, manuel is a journeyman who's best suited as a backup, and mccree isn't getting any younger or faster himself-- and he got benched last year in sandy eggo. . . i don't see any of these vets as anything beyond stopgaps, and the sooner we get some legit young talent plugged in back there the better. . .

Lonestar
05-09-2008, 01:57 PM
i really hope that barrett or woodyard (or both) work out. . . while i agree that it's nice to have some more options, i'm honestly not enamored with any of them. . . abdullah got badly exposed down the stretch last year, manuel is a journeyman who's best suited as a backup, and mccree isn't getting any younger or faster himself-- and he got benched last year in sandy eggo. . . i don't see any of these vets as anything beyond stopgaps, and the sooner we get some legit young talent plugged in back there the better. . .

I agree wholeheartedly I see the Woodyard and Barrett being the new Atwater and Dennis Smith combo that couple be playing as a team for along time..

Time will tell.

Ziggy
05-09-2008, 02:00 PM
i really hope that barrett or woodyard (or both) work out. . . while i agree that it's nice to have some more options, i'm honestly not enamored with any of them. . . abdullah got badly exposed down the stretch last year, manuel is a journeyman who's best suited as a backup, and mccree isn't getting any younger or faster himself-- and he got benched last year in sandy eggo. . . i don't see any of these vets as anything beyond stopgaps, and the sooner we get some legit young talent plugged in back there the better. . .

Yeah, you'll notice I didn't mention Abdullah in my post. He's a backup at best, and I don't expect him to make the final cut. I don't think they consider Manual just a stopgap, which is why they gave him a 3 year contract. I think he can compete for the starting position and at the very least be a quality backup.

BroncoWave
05-09-2008, 02:30 PM
I hope Lynch disproves me this season. I'm not holding my breath though.

SOCALORADO.
05-09-2008, 03:00 PM
Yeah, you'll notice I didn't mention Abdullah in my post. He's a backup at best, and I don't expect him to make the final cut. I don't think they consider Manual just a stopgap, which is why they gave him a 3 year contract. I think he can compete for the starting position and at the very least be a quality backup.

I dont know where the love for Hasbeen Abdullah came from. Desperation i guess, or his STs play wasnt too bad, but i think Barrett is one of the guys that makes a big impression in camp. I also think Abdullah actually will get cut as well.

OMorange&blue
05-09-2008, 03:13 PM
I agree wholeheartedly I see the Woodyard and Barrett being the new Atwater and Dennis Smith combo that couple be playing as a team for along time..

Time will tell.

So nobody is gonna say anything? We're just gonna let that slide?? Really??

turftoad
05-09-2008, 03:13 PM
I agree wholeheartedly I see the Woodyard and Barrett being the new Atwater and Dennis Smith combo that couple be playing as a team for along time..

Time will tell.

I like both if the young guys however, Woodyard is a tweener S/LB that was an undrafted rookie FA and Barrett was an underachieving S that was drafted in the very late rounds.

Not only the Broncos scouts but every other teams scouts didn't think enough of them to draft them higher so comparing them to Atwater and Smith is a little far fetched.

I do like thier upside but like you said, time will tell.

SOCALORADO.
05-09-2008, 03:15 PM
Hey guys remember the "BIG NICKEL"?? Anyone?
This defensive scheme worked really well against SD and KC as well as other teams with big TEs and i cant help but wonder if Shanny intends to bring it back?
Sam Brandon was excellent and had he not injured his knee, i saw him taking over for Fergeson after his own knee injury. Unfortunately, as you all know that didnt pan out, but i was wondering if with a brand spanking new FS like Josh Barrett, wouldnt Shanny implement the "BIG NICKEL" again to combat those damn TEs in the division? Just wondering what you guys think...
Heres some info on Josh Barrett
Good athleticism...Has outstanding size and a solid frame..Very good timed speed with a burst...Reliable tackler who can also deliver the knockout blow...Tough and physical...Decent range when dropping back into coverage...Excellent against the run...Nice instincts and awareness...Good football IQ...Hard worker...Team leader.

Looks like he has the attributes to play the scheme to me.

OMorange&blue
05-09-2008, 03:23 PM
Sam Brandon was awsome against the 2 tonys. Losing him was a bigger deal than Ive heard anyone suggest. I hadn't thought about barret in that role (still hoping he pans out as a legit starter) but you might be right. Something to keep on eye on.

topscribe
05-09-2008, 03:29 PM
Well, i love Lynch as much as the next guy, but he clearly is a liability in coverage. He also cant make it through an entire game without a "neck pincher" or some other issue with his neck, which scares alot of us.
I do however feel that Lynch would be MORE than adequate as the SS.
And apprently i'm not the only one who feels this way, cause theres a guy over at Broncomoronia that drinks beers :beer: with McCree at the local Red Onion, and he says that Marlon TOLD him that Hes playing FS and Lynch is playing SS. As if we really needed the scoop, and we couldnt of just speculated on this possiblity ourselves,hmm?!?!?
Anyways, as we have been speculating for months since the McCree signing, more than likely Lynch at SS in run spport, helping at the line, and a steady, veteran who can still hit like McCree roaming the backfield as the FS, is a possible scenario, and one which many of us like.

I think also that if Barret showes signs of really taking to the defense, and shows the promise i think alot of us feel he capable of, then he will see time as well as the FS depending on the situation or down. Eventually taking over the FS position altogether.
Now as for the SS spot for the future, well thats easy!
Here he is.
Kevin Ellison, SS, USC
Height: 6-1. Weight: 220.
40 Time: 4.56.
Projected Round (2009): 1.
Kevin Ellison started every game as a sophomore for USC, notching 64 tackles and a pick. Knicknamed "Evil" Ellison, this guy scares people. Excellent tackler, BIG HITTER and pretty good in coverage.

http://youtube.com/watch?v=gWHe60faOm8
http://youtube.com/watch?v=sA7iUhVqiEw&feature=related

I know, i know, helmet to helmet, but i just LOVE watching 'ME'sean get his bell rung!
Hopefully with a deep class at safety again, "Evil" will fall to the 2nd and DEN can pick him up.

I don't know how even McCree knows for sure what is going to happen.
Such first-rounders as Cutler and Clady may be essentially handed jobs by
the Broncos, but the players on the team who absolutely know where they
are going to play can be counted on one hand, with change.

If McCree thinks he knows what is going to happen, he ought to stop and
consider it is John Lynch he's talking about . . . you know, the guy who has
gone to the Pro Bowl the last four years straight?

-----

Grover
05-09-2008, 03:33 PM
As far as comparing Woodyard and Barrett to Atwater and Smith....

Atwater was our 20th pick in the first round in 1989 and Smith was our 15th pick in the first round in 1981.

These two players combined for a total of 14 probowls. Although I'm pulling for every current Bronco to do well, I'm having trouble believing a 7th rounder and a free agent will match up well in comparison to two former Bronco superstars.

topscribe
05-09-2008, 04:02 PM
As far as comparing Woodyard and Barrett to Atwater and Smith....

Atwater was our 20th pick in the first round in 1989 and Smith was our 15th pick in the first round in 1981.

These two players combined for a total of 14 probowls. Although I'm pulling for every current Bronco to do well, I'm having trouble believing a 7th rounder and a free agent will match up well in comparison to two former Bronco superstars.

Once again, I am not overly impressed with where a player was drafted. I am
sure TD, Sharpe, Nalen, & Co. weren't all that impressed with it.

That said, it is ludicrous to compare a couple rookies to the likes of Smith
and Atwater. Draft position may not necessarily say much in my mind, but
all those Pro Bowls and seeing those players throughout their respective
careers do.

I may well be wrong, but I will be surprised if either Woodyard or Barrett
ever play to the level of Dennis Smith or Steve Atwater. Not that I doubt
the ability of these rookies . . . it's just that we are talking about a level of
play not many players ever reach.

-----

dogfish
05-09-2008, 04:18 PM
man, you guys are killin' JR here. . . .


:lol:



guy gets hammered every day for being negative, and when he makes his first positive post of the year everybody gives him shit about it. . . :laugh:



sometimes, ya just can't win. . . .






(for the record, i don't think they're the next atwater or smith either-- just sayin')

turftoad
05-09-2008, 04:20 PM
Once again, I am not overly impressed with where a player was drafted. I am
sure TD, Sharpe, Nalen, & Co. weren't all that impressed with it.
That said, it is ludicrous to compare a couple rookies to the likes of Smith
and Atwater. Draft position may not necessarily say much in my mind, but
all those Pro Bowls and seeing those players throughout their respective
careers do.

I may well be wrong, but I will be surprised if either Woodyard or Barrett
ever play to the level of Dennis Smith or Steve Atwater. Not that I doubt
the ability of these rookies . . . it's just that we are talking about a level of
play not many players ever reach.

-----

Ahhh, the old throw out the exceptions to the rules guys. You forgot about Rod Smith Top.

Yes, there are exceptions but not very many of them. As Broncos fans, lets hope that the two young safteys are.

SOCALORADO.
05-09-2008, 04:27 PM
I don't know how even McCree knows for sure what is going to happen.
Such first-rounders as Cutler and Clady may be essentially handed jobs by
the Broncos, but the players on the team who absolutely know where they
are going to play can be counted on one hand, with change.

If McCree thinks he knows what is going to happen, he ought to stop and
consider it is John Lynch he's talking about . . . you know, the guy who has
gone to the Pro Bowl the last four years straight?

-----

I'm being sarcastic to an extent with the McCree stuff. I personally DONT beleive anything the moron poster over at Broncomoronia stated. I think he just made it up to create controversy, and also because theres a good chance that McCree might play FS and Lynch might play SS anyways, making him look like he gets the "dirt" from his freind!
Weve discussed this option already, so its no suprise that some knucklehead is trying to make it a highlight of himself over at the site, which coincidentally just happened to be where the 1st Orangemane refugee camp was being held, till we all couldnt take the absolute stupidity of the site and we all left for this site!

I do however think that playing Barrett as the "Big Nickel " would be an absolutely brilliant idea. He is tall and has good speed with good coverage ability, couple in the fact that he can HIT with the best of em, and hes got all the makings of an excellent TE destroyer!
This would be a good way to acclimate him to the FS position as a whole and get him on the field, and involved in the play. Sort of break him in, instead of asking him to do too much. Alot like what Shanny did with Sam Brandon.
I think he would be a good intimidator as well against those bigger TEs that DEN has to contend with in the division.
Just a thought.

dogfish
05-09-2008, 04:32 PM
I do however think that playing Barrett as the "Big Nickel " would be an absolutely brilliant idea. He is tall and has good speed with good coverage ability, couple in the fact that he can HIT with the best of em, and hes got all the makings of an excellent TE destroyer!
This would be a good way to acclimate him to the FS position as a whole and get him on the field, and involved in the play. Sort of break him in, instead of asking him to do too much. Alot like what Shanny did with Sam Brandon.
I think he would be a good intimidator as well against those bigger TEs that DEN has to contend with in the division.
Just a thought.

ANYTHING would be an upgrade over our "coverage" of tight ends last year, which mostly consisted of waving at them as they headed down the field for a big gain. . .

top, you've seen barrett play a fair amount, right? how is he in man coverage?

Ziggy
05-09-2008, 04:37 PM
I'm being sarcastic to an extent with the McCree stuff. I personally DONT beleive anything the moron poster over at Broncomoronia stated. I think he just made it up to create controversy, and also because theres a good chance that McCree might play FS and Lynch might play SS anyways, making him look like he gets the "dirt" from his freind!
Weve discussed this option already, so its no suprise that some knucklehead is trying to make it a highlight of himself over at the site, which coincidentally just happened to be where the 1st Orangemane refugee camp was being held, till we all couldnt take the absolute stupidity of the site and we all left for this site!

I do however think that playing Barrett as the "Big Nickel " would be an absolutely brilliant idea. He is tall and has good speed with good coverage ability, couple in the fact that he can HIT with the best of em, and hes got all the makings of an excellent TE destroyer!
This would be a good way to acclimate him to the FS position as a whole and get him on the field, and involved in the play. Sort of break him in, instead of asking him to do too much. Alot like what Shanny did with Sam Brandon.
I think he would be a good intimidator as well against those bigger TEs that DEN has to contend with in the division.
Just a thought.


That's a good point SoCal. Brandon was a big factor in our playoff run in 2005.

topscribe
05-09-2008, 04:56 PM
Ahhh, the old throw out the exceptions to the rules guys. You forgot about Rod Smith Top.

Yes, there are exceptions but not very many of them. As Broncos fans, lets hope that the two young safteys are.

No, I didn't forget him. I just didn't mention him, just as I didn't mention Matt
Lepsis, Joe Rizzo, Tyrone Braxton, Karl Mecklenburg . . . well, I could come up
with a list long as my arm. After all, we are talking about only one team here,
not including the other 31.

My point is that I am more impressed with on the field performance than I am
where they were selected, or if they were FAs. I don't know how one can
disagree with that (although some have taken it upon themselves to do so).
It's Football 101 to me. :coffee:

-----

topscribe
05-09-2008, 04:58 PM
ANYTHING would be an upgrade over our "coverage" of tight ends last year, which mostly consisted of waving at them as they headed down the field for a big gain. . .

top, you've seen barrett play a fair amount, right? how is he in man coverage?

You know, I just never paid much attention to ASU's secondary. Their front
seven was so damned good :mad:, it seemed the secondary didn't have to do much.

-----

dogfish
05-09-2008, 05:30 PM
You know, I just never paid much attention to ASU's secondary. Their front
seven was so damned good :mad:, it seemed the secondary didn't have to do much.

-----

in that case, enver's front seven may be a real shock to his system. . . . :frusty:

topscribe
05-09-2008, 05:36 PM
in that case, enver's front seven may be a real shock to his system. . . . :frusty:

You wouldn't be judging Denver's system from last year's would you? I mean,
even after little matters such as the arrival of Boss, Koutouvides, and
Robertson; the return to health of Ekuban and Moss; and D.J. going back to
his natural position?

Barrett is coming in at a wonderful time for him.

-----

turftoad
05-09-2008, 05:37 PM
No, I didn't forget him. I just didn't mention him, just as I didn't mention Matt
Lepsis, Joe Rizzo, Tyrone Braxton, Karl Mecklenburg . . . well, I could come up
with a list long as my arm. After all, we are talking about only one team here,
not including the other 31.

My point is that I am more impressed with on the field performance than I am
where they were selected, or if they were FAs. I don't know how one can
disagree with that (although some have taken it upon themselves to do so).
It's Football 101 to me. :coffee:

-----

I'm as much for seeing the underdog succeed as most people are. That said, I would love to see the late round undrafted FA's do well.

They are still the exception. We are lucky to have had many exceptions as you have pointed out. However, there still aren't that many. The Broncos names you have listed are in about a 20yr span. You have to admit that the higher drafted players have a higher percentage of success.

topscribe
05-09-2008, 05:41 PM
I'm as much for seeing the underdog succeed as most people are. That said, I would love to see the late round undrafted FA's do well.

They are still the exception. We are lucky to have had many exceptions as you have pointed out. However, there still aren't that many. The Broncos names you have listed are in about a 20yr span. You have to admit that the higher drafted players have a higher percentage of success.

Of course, Turf, that's a no-brainer, isn't it?

But I don't want it pulled off my point, which is why I keep responding. That
is, I want to forget about where they were selected when they take the
field. I want to see how they play right there.

That is a more reliable indicator to me than considering where Marcus Nash
or Rod Smith was taken. That's my point. It has nothing to do with what I
want to see. I wanted to see Marcus Nash fulfill his first-round promise and
become a stud for us. What I saw was his performance, or the lack of it, on
the field.

-----

turftoad
05-09-2008, 05:43 PM
Of course, Turf, that's a no-brainer, isn't it?

But I don't want it pulled off my point, which is why I keep responding. That
is, I want to forget about where they were selected when they take the
field. I want to see how they play right there.

That is a more reliable indicator to me than considering where Marcus Nash
or Rod Smith was taken. That's my point.

-----
Point taken...................... I agree. :D

dogfish
05-09-2008, 08:38 PM
You wouldn't be judging Denver's system from last year's would you? I mean,
even after little matters such as the arrival of Boss, Koutouvides, and
Robertson; the return to health of Ekuban and Moss; and D.J. going back to
his natural position?

Barrett is coming in at a wonderful time for him.

-----

of course i'm judging them off last year's performance, is there some other, more recent measuring stick to use?


:confused:


yes, we have some new faces, but we're still going to be relying on a lot of the same guys who were here last year, and they were unbelievably terrible-- they get no free pass from me until they earn it! i won't consider ekuban a quality contributor until i see it, because an achilles tendon tear is an even more debilitating injury than an ACL tear-- takeo spikes was a far, far better player than EE, and he hasn't been more than a warm body since he tore his achilles. . . as for the other guys, robertson is the only one who's proven anything in this league-- boss was never anything special in detroit, niko is a career backup, and moss wasn't exactly an impact player before he got hurt. . .

CAN they be better than last year's front seven? sure, absolutely-- there's some talent and potential there. . . but i rarely assume anything, and i won't consider the unit upgraded until they get on the field and show me. . . some may call that a negative attitude, i call it pragmatic. . .

BANJOPICKER1
05-09-2008, 08:51 PM
I would rather Woodyard or McCree come in and make the move to SS. I think either one of these guys would do a better job.
But isnt it like saying that you wished someone would replace Atwater years ago?We were all hurt by him saying goodbye to the Broncos..

I am sure there are better players than Lynch but knowing he is in there getting ready to bash Brady just makes me happy!!:D

GOOOOOOOOO BRONCOS!!!!:defense:

Skinny
05-10-2008, 03:02 PM
I do however think that playing Barrett as the "Big Nickel " would be an absolutely brilliant idea. He is tall and has good speed with good coverage ability, couple in the fact that he can HIT with the best of em, and hes got all the makings of an excellent TE destroyer!
This would be a good way to acclimate him to the FS position as a whole and get him on the field, and involved in the play. Sort of break him in, instead of asking him to do too much. Alot like what Shanny did with Sam Brandon.
I think he would be a good intimidator as well against those bigger TEs that DEN has to contend with in the division.
Just a thought.Personally i'm a little curious if the big nickel will be implemented again now with Bates gone. It was a position that according to Sam Brandon (reading from old denverbroncos.com links) that was brought to light when Bob Slowik was hired to coach the secondary under then D-coord. Larry Coyer.

Now that Slo is the D-coord., there may be a good chance that this is once again a position on defense for those pesky TEs. We'll see.

SOCALORADO.
05-10-2008, 03:37 PM
Personally i'm a little curious if the big nickel will be implemented again now with Bates gone. It was a position that according to Sam Brandon (reading from old denverbroncos.com links) that was brought to light when Bob Slowik was hired to coach the secondary under then D-coord. Larry Coyer.

Now that Slo is the D-coord., there may be a good chance that this is once again a position on defense for those pesky TEs. We'll see.

I just think with the situation on defense, Barrett would be perfect for covering TEs. Guy is 6-3 225, with blazing speed, PLENTY physical to cover Gates or Gonzo. Plus this gets him on the field, and gets his physical skill set out there with all the others, allowing him to play against the run, if the opposing offense ends up running it anyways. Hes a good tackler as well.
I am really hoping that the "Big Nickel" is reimplemented due to its incredible success with Sam Brandon. Brandon was on his way to IMHO becoming one of the starting safeties in DEN, untill the PITT game where he destroyed his knee. I see Barrett taking over this position (hopefully) and getting his time to learn the safety position in DEN with some "on the job training" as the "Big Nickel".
Man, i hope Slo brings it back!!!!
I for one am REALLY getting sick of seeing guys like Gates or Clark running into the end zone untouched for a TD. I just remember last year, that Clark TD in INDY and "fools"GOLD getting smoked in coverage for a TD. And Foxy at the other end looking just lost. I remember thinking, "If we had Brandon, that would'nt of been a TD".......
Bring it back Slo!

Acedude
05-10-2008, 06:40 PM
Denver potentially has a good D in the making. When you have a guy like Elvis that can disrupt passing plays any time the QB drops back, you have a chance to make things happen on D. Elvis opens up a lot of lanes for blitzes, the staff has to take advantage of that. Does the team have LB's that can take advantage of those blitzing lanes? Is the staff smart enough and can they school the the LB's to take advantage of those blitzing lanes? We'll see. Can Denver's DT's put pressure in the middle? We'll see.

I read the League has shifted one of the referees around to specifically look more at holding by the OT's. Since Elvis was held/tackled a lot last year, I'd guess his sack total goes up a couple notches this year.

Lonestar
05-10-2008, 07:07 PM
Denver potentially has a good D in the making. When you have a guy like Elvis that can disrupt passing plays any time the QB drops back, you have a chance to make things happen on D. Elvis opens up a lot of lanes for blitzes, the staff has to take advantage of that. Does the team have LB's that can take advantage of those blitzing lanes? Is the staff smart enough and can they school the the LB's to take advantage of those blitzing lanes? We'll see. Can Denver's DT's put pressure in the middle? We'll see.

I read the League has shifted one of the referees around to specifically look more at holding by the OT's. Since Elvis was held/tackled a lot last year, I'd guess his sack total goes up a couple notches this year.

this team has had a lot of potential for years.. still a very young team with very limited playing experience outside of CB and John Lynch..

Ziggy
05-13-2008, 08:48 AM
Denver potentially has a good D in the making. When you have a guy like Elvis that can disrupt passing plays any time the QB drops back, you have a chance to make things happen on D. Elvis opens up a lot of lanes for blitzes, the staff has to take advantage of that. Does the team have LB's that can take advantage of those blitzing lanes? Is the staff smart enough and can they school the the LB's to take advantage of those blitzing lanes? We'll see. Can Denver's DT's put pressure in the middle? We'll see.

I read the League has shifted one of the referees around to specifically look more at holding by the OT's. Since Elvis was held/tackled a lot last year, I'd guess his sack total goes up a couple notches this year.

I think Elvis takes it up a notch when one of our other D-lineman require a double team. Right now teams can double Doom with no worries from the other 3 lineman. Either Robertson, Thomas, Moss, or (insert surprise D-lineman here) are going to have to raise the level of thier play. Robertson may be the guy in our scheme. Until one of them does though, Doom will get double teamed on every passing down and his numbers will stay pretty much the same. Give him some help though and he can contend for the sack title.

Ziggy
05-13-2008, 08:54 AM
Sorry, got off topic there. I'm wondering what Barrett's problem was in college. He has the workout numbers and size to be a first round pick, but no one went for him until the 7th round. That doesn't mean that he won't be a player, but does anyone know what the knock on him is? Lack of instincts? Bad in the locker room? Poor work ethic? Uncoachable? For a safety that is 6'2", 231 pounds and runs a 4.35 40 to drop to the 7th round in today's NFL, there must have been some red flags. Anyone have an inside scoop?

Timmy!
05-13-2008, 08:57 AM
Sorry, got off topic there. I'm wondering what Barrett's problem was in college. He has the workout numbers and size to be a first round pick, but no one went for him until the 7th round. That doesn't mean that he won't be a player, but does anyone know what the knock on him is? Lack of instincts? Bad in the locker room? Poor work ethic? Uncoachable? For a safety that is 6'2", 231 pounds and runs a 4.35 40 to drop to the 7th round in today's NFL, there must have been some red flags. Anyone have an inside scoop?

Don't qoute me on this, but I think he lost his starting job his senior year. Slim would be the one to ask for details.....

Ziggy
05-13-2008, 08:58 AM
Don't qoute me on this, but I think he lost his starting job his senior year. Slim would be the one to ask for details.....

Too late!:laugh:

Davii
05-13-2008, 08:59 AM
Sorry, got off topic there. I'm wondering what Barrett's problem was in college. He has the workout numbers and size to be a first round pick, but no one went for him until the 7th round. That doesn't mean that he won't be a player, but does anyone know what the knock on him is? Lack of instincts? Bad in the locker room? Poor work ethic? Uncoachable? For a safety that is 6'2", 231 pounds and runs a 4.35 40 to drop to the 7th round in today's NFL, there must have been some red flags. Anyone have an inside scoop?

Inconsistent and does not always play up to his measurables...Too aggressive at times...Technique and footwork need refinement...Hips are not real fluid...May lack a fire in his belly..Coming off a lackluster senior campaign...Some durability issues.

Ziggy
05-13-2008, 09:21 AM
Inconsistent and does not always play up to his measurables...Too aggressive at times...Technique and footwork need refinement...Hips are not real fluid...May lack a fire in his belly..Coming off a lackluster senior campaign...Some durability issues.

Out of the things listed, that's the only one that concerns me. The rest can be taken care of.

Davii
05-13-2008, 09:26 AM
Out of the things listed, that's the only one that concerns me. The rest can be taken care of.

Agreed. Everything else can be taught. I don't know about the "hips being fluid", can that be taught, is it really technique? Maybe he should go on Dancing With the Stars.

Ziggy
05-13-2008, 09:30 AM
Here's a scouting report from FFToolbox that states the opposite about Barretts motor.

2008 NFL Draft Prospect - Scouting Report
Barrett is an incredible physical specimen at 6'2", 225 pounds and has great speed for a safety. Barrett is good in press coverage and does a good job using his hands to reroute receivers. He has good range and can cover the deep half of the field. With the size to line up in the box and stuff the run from the safety position, he is aggressive and can make plays at the line of scrimmage. Barrett is a high energy player; coaches will love his motor. He is a reliable open field tackler that flashes the ability to deliver the big hit. Barrett reminds me a lot of Roy Williams of the Cowboys and like Roy Williams, he has a tendency to get beat on the deep ball and by play action. He does a great job of timing blitzes and takes the shortest path to the quarterback. He is a ball hawk and tries to strip the ball when in a trail position. Barrett earned himself as much or more money than any other player at the combine. Barrett ran a 4.35 forty yard dash. He is proving to be the best athlete of this year's safety class. Barrett shows great straight line speed, but has trouble when mirroring receivers. Barrett projects as a likely early second round pick. He needs to show better instincts and with NFL coaching has the athletic ability to do very well in the NFL.

dogfish
05-13-2008, 10:27 AM
Sorry, got off topic there. I'm wondering what Barrett's problem was in college. He has the workout numbers and size to be a first round pick, but no one went for him until the 7th round. That doesn't mean that he won't be a player, but does anyone know what the knock on him is? Lack of instincts? Bad in the locker room? Poor work ethic? Uncoachable? For a safety that is 6'2", 231 pounds and runs a 4.35 40 to drop to the 7th round in today's NFL, there must have been some red flags. Anyone have an inside scoop?

i've read that he was really inconsistent this year after showing flashes of brilliance as a junior-- scouts say that he looked indecisive and scared to hit anything. . . it's possible that some of his weaknesses got exposed on tape-- and it's also possible that he held back because he was afraid of getting hurt and screwing up his draft stock. . . . ahh, the irony! :laugh:

SOCALORADO.
05-13-2008, 08:36 PM
Heres the inside scoop on Barrett.
He was great up until his senior year because of the new HC. Erickson had a new scheme and he used Barret in stupid ways which caused him to not be able to do what he does best, and he got frustrated, Erickson didnt care, and used him in all kinds of different looks against opposing offense's which caused him to play out of position.
After a while, he just as they said, "didnt play with a fire". He just got fed up, and tired of playing out of position for Erickson, who's kinda notorious for treating players like $h!t.
I even heard that Erickson badmouthed Barrett to a couple HCs because of their little dislike, and this was where the problems for Barrett began.
I dont know if these RUMORS are true, but thats what i heard from people close to the players at ASU. I have a couple of freinds, who's younger brothers and sisters go to ASU. Again, this is all heresay, but i did watch Barrett visibly frustrated on the field last year, and alot of us began to ask questions about him, because we knew he was good. Thats where i started hearing all this stuff about the little dislike between them. I dont think either would ever admit it, and its water under the bridge as far as they are concerned, as far as ive heard.

All's Barrett needs is a fresh start, and he'll be fine.

Lonestar
05-13-2008, 08:43 PM
Heres the inside scoop on Barrett.
He was great up until his senior year because of the new HC. Erickson had a new scheme and he used Barret in stupid ways which caused him to not be able to do what he does best, and he got frustrated, Erickson didnt care, and used him in all kinds of different looks against opposing offense's which caused him to play out of position.
After a while, he just as they said, "didnt play with a fire". He just got fed up, and tired of playing out of position for Erickson, who's kinda notorious for treating players like $h!t.
I even heard that Erickson badmouthed Barrett to a couple HCs because of their little dislike, and this was where the problems for Barrett began.
I dont know if these RUMORS are true, but thats what i heard from people close to the players at ASU. I have a couple of freinds, who's younger brothers and sisters go to ASU. Again, this is all heresay, but i did watch Barrett visibly frustrated on the field last year, and alot of us began to ask questions about him, because we knew he was good. Thats where i started hearing all this stuff about the little dislike between them. I dont think either would ever admit it, and its water under the bridge as far as they are concerned, as far as ive heard.

All's Barrett needs is a fresh start, and he'll be fine.

hmmm come to DEN and get near mikeys doghouse not so sure I'd want to be him..

Lets hope he does well and is the player he is supposed to be..