It's not fair to rip Tebow for his faith

[Denver Native (Carol)]

http://www.denverpost.com/premium/broncos/ci_15011076

On the night of Dec. 13, 2008, as three college undergraduates stood together in the green room at the Nokia Theatre in New York, awaiting the Heisman Trophy award ceremony, they talked about their schools and their teams, the football season, upcoming bowls (two would be playing for the BCS championship), the bright lights and the big city.

Then Tim Tebow, Colt McCoy and Sam Bradford shared their religious convictions and, with heads bowed and hands clasped, a prayer. Tebow, the Heisman recipient the year before, was asked by Bradford how it felt to be selected and what he might say. "Don't forget to thank who was responsible," Tebow replied.

The All-America quarterback trio filed into the big room and Tebow sat in the middle, with Bradford and McCoy on each side.

The Florida QB would receive 309 first-place votes, the Oklahoma QB 300 and the Texas QB 266. Overall, though, Bradford had the most points and was named the winner.

On the podium Bradford said: "First, I need to thank God. I give all the credit to him. I'd be nowhere without him."

McCoy and Tebow nodded and applauded.

None of the three received the trophy last December, but they were drafted into the NFL last month — Bradford No. 1 by the Rams, Tebow 25th by the Broncos and McCoy 85th by the Browns. Their college careers were intertwined; their professional careers will be compared, and their lives, according to each, will be guided by their faith.

They have the same open, outspoken views about Christianity as Kurt Warner, who recently retired after three Super Bowl starts, and Drew Brees, the MVP of Super Bowl XLIV.

Interestingly enough, the Broncos' other offseason quarterback acquisition, Brady Quinn, signs autographs with a Biblical scripture, Philippians 4:13: "I can do all things through him who strengthens me."

Quinn wasn't criticized for his religious principles after joining the Broncos. Warner and Brees weren't made fun of during championships seasons. Nobody in St. Louis or Cleveland seems to care that Bradford or McCoy read the Bible before games.

Yet, Tebow's devout dedication causes a multitude of diverse opinions and reactions.

I've never experienced anything so analogous in sports since former Nuggets guard Mahmoud Abdul-Rauf refused to stand for the national anthem in 1996 because, he said, U.S. policies conflicted with his Islamic beliefs.

Set apart Tebow's ability to play quarterback in the NFL. The extremist responses about him and his Christianity stretch the breadth from Tebow being "a modern-day Jesus who can be a hero to all" to Tebow being "nothing more than a puppet for the religious right and what's wrong in this country."

It's scary both ways.

The other night a man who claimed to be a Broncos season-ticket holder and a doctor wanted to argue, then physically fight, at a public gathering because he believed Tebow to be an evil force and a bad draft pick.

When Craig Morton, the quarterback on the Broncos' first Super Bowl team, proclaimed he had become a "born-again Christian," people shrugged. There were few discouraging words heard where the Buffaloes roam about coach Bill McCartney's religious resoluteness when Colorado won a national championship in football. (Later, when he retired and founded Promise Keepers, there were lots of words.)

Baseball players wear crosses around their necks; boxers make the sign of the cross before a fight; football players talk about "God wanted our team to win"; basketball players praise the Lord and point upward; coaches in all sports lead prayers before and after games; and a local professional team heralds its Christian attitude.

"God Bless America" is sung at major-league ballparks.

But Tebow — who has ministered at prisons instead of spending time in prisons — is scolded. Sure, he appeared with his mother in a controversial Super Bowl television commercial sponsored by the Colorado Springs-based organization Focus on the Family, and he has worn eye black highlighting Biblical verses, and he is the son of Baptist missionaries, and he holds Bible study classes for teammates if they want to attend, and he did ask players at the NFL scouting combine to pray with him and he closes every speech and interview with "God bless," and he's as upfront about his beliefs as Jason Elam and Brian Dawkins, beloved former and current Broncos.

So what?

Those who disagree can pay no attention, and those who agree may say "Hallelujah" to their TV sets. But neither side should turn this into the cause celèbre. Freedom of religion and speech are preciously protected in this country.

Please, Tebow should be judged as a man and as a player, just as Brandon Marshall was.

[xzn]

This article is so right on!

The same people who criticize T2 don't say one word about Weapon X . . .

I may or may not agree with what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it. The only exception permissible to the otherwise absolute American-democratic society's right to freedom of speech is if someone makes a statement in a public setting which unfustifiably incites panic. E.g. shouting, "Fire!", in a crowded theater has been ruled illegal by the Supreme Court.

[EastCoastBronco]

I have no problems with anybody's faith as long as they don't try to ram it down my throat or blow me up because I don't see it their way.

[KyleOrtonArmySoldier#128]

I don't care if he worships a chicken wing as long as he gets out there and wins some games.

Mmmm, chicken wings!

[T.K.O.]

"Those who disagree can pay no attention, and those who agree may say "Hallelujah" to their TV sets. But neither side should turn this into the cause celèbre. Freedom of religion and speech are preciously protected in this country.

Please, Tebow should be judged as a man and as a player, just as Brandon Marshall was. "

"tis' better to be persecuted than procecuted"
tko 1:1:salute:

[Lonestar]

IMO anyone that critizes the kid only because of his faith is not playing with a full deck.

He has never jammed it down anyones throat.

I find it refreshing that he has Jesus in his life and reconizes it.


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[KyleOrtonArmySoldier#128]

IMO anyone that critizes the kid only because of his faith is not playing with a full deck.

He has never jammed it down anyones throat.

I find it refreshing that he has Jesus in his life and reconizes it.


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Yeah most of the people who complain about him "cramming it down their throat" have never even met the kid....some people just have a bone to pick with organized religion. I don't agree with it but I understand it.

[SOCALORADO.]

IMO anyone that critizes the kid only because of his faith is not playing with a full deck.

He has never jammed it down anyones throat.

I find it refreshing that he has Jesus in his life and reconizes it.


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"I think it's neat. You don't hear that much about god anymore.
I like Christian rock. It's very positive. It's not like those real
musicians who think they're so cool and hip."
-George Costanza

[Northman]

It's scary both ways.

/thread

[KyleOrtonArmySoldier#128]

/thread

Because you said so? :confused:

[Northman]

Because you said so? :confused:

No, because god ordained it.

[KyleOrtonArmySoldier#128]

No, because god ordained it.

I didn't hear Tebow say anything about closing the thread!

:lol:

[guitarj]

I am sure Tebow is well aware of the scripture that says;
"Blessed are those who have been persecuted for the sake of righteousness, for theirs is the kingdom of heaven. "Blessed are you when people insult you and persecute you, and falsely say all kinds of evil against you because of Me.

It may not be fair to rip Tebow, but as long as he is vocal and openly practicing his faith, its going to happen. This has been going on for thousands of years.

[Denver Native (Carol)]

I am sure Tebow is well aware of the scripture that says;
"Blessed are those who have been persecuted for the sake of righteousness, for theirs is the kingdom of heaven. "Blessed are you when people insult you and persecute you, and falsely say all kinds of evil against you because of Me.

It may not be fair to rip Tebow, but as long as he is vocal and openly practicing his faith, its going to happen. This has been going on for thousands of years.

I agree it is not fair, but at the same time, those Bronco fans ripping Tebow, say absolutely NOTHING about Brian Dawkins, who is ever bit as vocal about his faith as Tebow is????????? :confused:

[Thnikkaman]

To borrow a song title from one of my favorite groups, everything is fair.

Tebow vocalizes his faith. Its his right to do so, and its our right as Americans to voice our opinion of that if we want to. Personally, it doesn't bother me.

Now lets actually talk about something more important than weather or not someone we have known shares his religious beliefs with us for quite some time continues to voice his faith.

[WARHORSE]

"Those who disagree can pay no attention, and those who agree may say "Hallelujah" to their TV sets. But neither side should turn this into the cause celèbre. Freedom of religion and speech are preciously protected in this country.

Please, Tebow should be judged as a man and as a player, just as Brandon Marshall was. "

"tis' better to be persecuted than procecuted"
tko 1:1:salute:



It would have been a great retort except for the spelling. Kinda killed your groove.:D



"TIS BETTER TO BE PERSECUTED...THAN PROSECUTED!"

Book of Tebow

[SOCALORADO.]

I agree it is not fair, but at the same time, those Bronco fans ripping Tebow, say absolutely NOTHING about Brian Dawkins, who is ever bit as vocal about his faith as Tebow is????????? :confused:

I brought this up before here about how Dawkins leads prayer for the team, but ive never heard of a player mouthing off to him about it, or making a lewd remark during the prayer. Dawkins also has lead prayers on the field, and i've never seen or heard of fans or an opposing teams players disputing this openly. ever. I have even seen Shanahan get on a knee and participate in prayers in the lockeroom. Not one peep then. No backlash, no articles in the Denver Post criticizing Shanny for being a part of it. Nada.
Also, McCoy and Bradford are also very outspoken about their faith, and yet Tebow gets the negative religious attention. Not them.
Thats what WINNING does. It makes some folks jealous and envious and eventually filled with hate for specific people. Its too bad.
I guess Tebow will just have to continue to win to put them in their place.

[Lonestar]

Yeah most of the people who complain about him "cramming it down their throat" have never even met the kid....some people just have a bone to pick with organized religion. I don't agree with it but I understand it.


mostly because at one time or another they had bad experience with it Or flat out do not understand it.


My middle son got turned off when he was ten we wanted my brother who does not go to church but is the most righteous man I know, to be My daughters God parents. The preacher got on a diatribe about they could not possibly be good enough to do so. It was my mothers church that she had been a member of for 30 years.

Any way he was traumatized by it, and when forced to go to church while in military school fought it hand and foot. HAs not been back on a sunday unless foraged by family.

My brother on the other hand Knows there is a God just does not feel like he has to go to church and Practices the 10 commandments to the letter.

I on the other hand found God again after we put our daughter in a Christian school because the school systems here suck.

[T.K.O.]

It would have been a great retort except for the spelling. Kinda killed your groove.:D



"TIS BETTER TO BE PERSECUTED...THAN PROSECUTED!"

Book of Tebow

i just wanted to be persecuted for my spelling.....thanks;)

[Northman]

I agree it is not fair, but at the same time, those Bronco fans ripping Tebow, say absolutely NOTHING about Brian Dawkins, who is ever bit as vocal about his faith as Tebow is????????? :confused:

Probably because Dawkins doesnt make a spectacle of himself.

[Northman]

To borrow a song title from one of my favorite groups, everything is fair.

Tebow vocalizes his faith. Its his right to do so, and its our right as Americans to voice our opinion of that if we want to. Personally, it doesn't bother me.

Now lets actually talk about something more important than weather or not someone we have known shares his religious beliefs with us for quite some time continues to voice his faith.

Amen

[Denver Native (Carol)]

Probably because Dawkins doesnt make a spectacle of himself.

Guess it's everyone's opinion as to what a spectacle is; however, I have heard Brian, many times, in his next day press conferences referring to his religion, when he has done interviews with sports people here, he does the same thing.

http://www.philly.com/philly/sports/eagles/20091223_Faith___fury__The_contradictions_of_Brian _Dawkins.html?page=1&c=y

Most of Brian Dawkins' Denver Broncos teammates encountered his corner locker before meeting him. What they saw there must have been confusing.

A wooden cross, a Bible, several religious books, and an etched plaque proclaiming, "I Know He's Watching Over Me," shared space with miniatures of Wolverine, the fearsome comic-book superhero whose fingers are gleaming daggers and whose milieu is mayhem.

If that contradictory display initially puzzled them, Denver's players quickly came to understand that it symbolized Dawkins himself, a jumbled mix of faith and ferocity, restraint and rowdiness, the spiritual and the intensely spirited.

Dawkins professes his religious beliefs frequently and fervently, and some say the team's many evangelical Christians are now more openly expressive of their faith than in the past.

[KyleOrtonArmySoldier#128]

Guess it's everyone's opinion as to what a spectacle is; however, I have heard Brian, many times, in his next day press conferences referring to his religion, when he has done interviews with sports people here, he does the same thing.

http://www.philly.com/philly/sports/eagles/20091223_Faith___fury__The_contradictions_of_Brian _Dawkins.html?page=1&c=y

Most of Brian Dawkins' Denver Broncos teammates encountered his corner locker before meeting him. What they saw there must have been confusing.

A wooden cross, a Bible, several religious books, and an etched plaque proclaiming, "I Know He's Watching Over Me," shared space with miniatures of Wolverine, the fearsome comic-book superhero whose fingers are gleaming daggers and whose milieu is mayhem.

If that contradictory display initially puzzled them, Denver's players quickly came to understand that it symbolized Dawkins himself, a jumbled mix of faith and ferocity, restraint and rowdiness, the spiritual and the intensely spirited.

Dawkins professes his religious beliefs frequently and fervently, and some say the team's many evangelical Christians are now more openly expressive of their faith than in the past.

Yeah, but Dawkins is a cool black guy that hits people very hard and tebow has the pretty boy look, so people poke fun. They know Tebow won't hunt them down but that Dawkins will. :D

[Lonestar]

Probably because Dawkins doesnt make a spectacle of himself.

So when has Tebow made a spectacle of himself? Not being the Tebow GUR and all just know of him from my daughters boyfriend. I have not seen any.

[Softskull]

As long as Tebow's high gods smite the Raiders, he can pray to monkeys for all I care.

[KyleOrtonArmySoldier#128]

So when has Tebow made a spectacle of himself? Not being the Tebow GUR and all just know of him from my daughters boyfriend. I have not seen any.

For real, if going to 3rd world countries on missionary trips is making a spectacle, then sign me up for the effing circus because I'm all in.

[FanInAZ]

This wouldn't have happened if the had thanked "the Spirit of the White Buffalo" for his success (I had a former neighbor say that she prays to this spirit for protection). The only people who are ever accused of being too religious are Christians. All that they have to do to get this label is to simply acknowledge that they are Christians. This is a fact that I learned 1st hand after I graduated from HS and attend a vocational training school, Phoenix Job Corps. It would take me several paragraphs to illustrate the bigoted attitudes that many of those students had towards us Christians. Some of them actually assumed that that I would be a religious fanatic as soon as they heard that I was a Christian before they even met me in person.

One final thought. Whenever we Christians object to what's on TV, we are told that he are free to change the channel. This works both ways. I change the channel whenever "Pro Wrestling", Jerry Springer, etc comes on. Non-Christians are free to do the same whenever a Christian athlete comes on.

[Northman]

So when has Tebow made a spectacle of himself? Not being the Tebow GUR and all just know of him from my daughters boyfriend. I have not seen any.

Most likely when he speaks out on it. As pointed out earlier, its fine to stand by what you believe but at the same token you have to take the criticism that comes with it. If people cant deal with the criticism thats their problem.

[The Glue Factory]

Why does Tebow get crucified and others (Dawkins, Elam, and others) are left alone? Probably because Tebow was in a commercial sponsored by Focus on the Family and nothing more. There's a pretty good back lash against FotF for taking it's ministry into the political realm.

[Softskull]

The only people who are ever accused of being too religious are Christians. All that they have to do to get this label is to simply acknowledge that they are Christians.

Please! Like the al-Qaeda Christians?

[KyleOrtonArmySoldier#128]

Why does Tebow get crucified and others (Dawkins, Elam, and others) are left alone? Probably because Tebow was in a commercial sponsored by Focus on the Family and nothing more. There's a pretty good back lash against FotF for taking it's ministry into the political realm.

This is true....

[Softskull]

Why does Tebow get crucified and others (Dawkins, Elam, and others) are left alone? Probably because Tebow was in a commercial sponsored by Focus on the Family and nothing more. There's a pretty good back lash against FotF for taking it's ministry into the political realm.

I agree that this is the reason. It's not just the FotF, but his commercial tackled one of the most sensitive of political subjects. His commercial pitted Palin against NOW. They're just killing the messenger. It's not really his religious beliefs, but how they fall into the political arena.

[Northman]

Oh thats right, he and his mama had that SB commercial. I can see how that would be a lightning rod on his beliefs.

sw7qX1TpdNQ

[Softskull]

Yep. There are areas where religion and politics meet. He jumped right in. I've never heard BDawk or Elam speak in these realms. I dont think it's a we hate Christians crowd. It's a we hate your politics crowd.

[The Glue Factory]

Yep. There are areas where religion and politics meet. He jumped right in. I've never heard BDawk or Elam speak in these realms. I dont think it's a we hate Christians crowd. It's a we hate your politics crowd.

And a lot of misunderstanding of the whole "separation of church and state" clause and Jefferson's comments on the subject in his letter to a baptist church to clarify that clause.

[Softskull]

Yeah, but Tebow not being attacked in the legal realm, he's battling in public opinion. If you take a visible stand in Pro Life/Choice, gay marriage, etc. you've jumped into the fray that's driven by emotions as much as reason. I dont know of any others in the article that have done that. Woody Paige missed it again by labeling this as anti-Tebow cause he's Christian. I do agree, it's not fair to rip Tebow because of his faith, but when his faith interferes with others beliefs, he becomes a target.

[T.K.O.]

Oh thats right, he and his mama had that SB commercial. I can see how that would be a lightning rod on his beliefs.

sw7qX1TpdNQ

this commercial does'nt even mention christianity or GOD...it looks similar to the budweiser commercial with betty white.kinda funny except i didnt know tebow almost died (i guess?) so i really dont see how this is controversial ?
i guess because its sponsered by focus on the family it is somehow cramming religion down our throats....but i dont see any problem with the ad:confused:

[KyleOrtonArmySoldier#128]

this commercial does'nt even mention christianity or GOD...it looks similar to the budweiser commercial with betty white.kinda funny except i didnt know tebow almost died (i guess?) so i really dont see how this is controversial ?
i guess because its sponsered by focus on the family it is somehow cramming religion down our throats....but i dont see any problem with the ad:confused:

I don't think people dislike the ad itself, but many lament focus on the family.

[Softskull]

CBS made them (FotF) soften the ad. They weren't allowed to say the "A" word. Women's groups were all over this weeks before it aired.

[OrangeHoof]

Won't be too long before Tebow will have 70,000 fans at Invesco saying his Savior's name in unison....the first time he gets picked off.

[WARHORSE]

i just wanted to be persecuted for my spelling.....thanks;)


No poblem.







:D

[T.K.O.]

I don't think people dislike the ad itself, but many lament focus on the family.

exactly ...if the sponser of the exact same ad had been...cambell's soup or big jim's beef jerky? no biggie....that's wher predjudice comes into play
nobody wants to hear about God when they are partying for superbowl....but there was no mention of god?
people want to squash an opinion about abortion?
who are the hypocrits again ?:confused:

[LordTrychon]

I think it was an issue with Tebow before that commercial.

I knew of his strong beliefs well before that commercial.

Tell people you're a star QB and a virgin... and people will not believe you and put you under a microscope.

[Lonestar]

Most likely when he speaks out on it. As pointed out earlier, its fine to stand by what you believe but at the same token you have to take the criticism that comes with it. If people cant deal with the criticism thats their problem.

Most folks could care less only the zealots and the press seem to have an issue with it. for the most part the media is liberal to not take up such an issue.

[Lonestar]

Oh thats right, he and his mama had that SB commercial. I can see how that would be a lightning rod on his beliefs.

sw7qX1TpdNQ


When I heard about all of the controversy on this Ad I was really looking forward to it.

Was expecting fire and brimstone raining from the skies the way the media was buzzing about it.

after seeing it I was asking WTF is the issue. Had to rerun it a couple of times to see if I missed something.

God Was not brought up,abortion was not mentioned, the right to schoose was not remotely mentioned. The only thing that was remotely said there was about him not making it into the world.

Unless someone were to go to the link, it was nothing but a great mom and son chit chat.

No worse than seeing a ford commercial and going to their web site to see their product..

[Lonestar]

CBS made them (FotF) soften the ad. They weren't allowed to say the "A" word. Women's groups were all over this weeks before it aired.

Sounds to me like a 1st amendment violation, to me.

[Krull]

I'm a Christian, but for arguments sake let's say your not whoever you are. Wouldn't the 10'commandments be a good way to model your life regardless? I'm just saying........

[GGMoogly]

I have no problems with any of this. Even though I no longer consider myself one, I'm very Christian friendly. I have always hoped, though, that at some point, some team would acquire a star QB who is a Hare Krishna. I think that would be awesome to see him thanking Krishna after a win and then go off dancing and singing. :elefant: :dancing2::dancing2::dancing2:

[honz]

I'm a Christian, but for arguments sake let's say your not whoever you are. Wouldn't the 10'commandments be a good way to model your life regardless? I'm just saying........
Certainly. I'm not religious at all and I couldn't tell you what the 10 commandments are (only a couple of them), but I'm positive I follow all of them.

[Thnikkaman]

This wouldn't have happened if the had thanked "the Spirit of the White Buffalo" for his success (I had a former neighbor say that she prays to this spirit for protection). The only people who are ever accused of being too religious are Christians. All that they have to do to get this label is to simply acknowledge that they are Christians. This is a fact that I learned 1st hand after I graduated from HS and attend a vocational training school, Phoenix Job Corps. It would take me several paragraphs to illustrate the bigoted attitudes that many of those students had towards us Christians. Some of them actually assumed that that I would be a religious fanatic as soon as they heard that I was a Christian before they even met me in person.

One final thought. Whenever we Christians object to what's on TV, we are told that he are free to change the channel. This works both ways. I change the channel whenever "Pro Wrestling", Jerry Springer, etc comes on. Non-Christians are free to do the same whenever a Christian athlete comes on.

Really? Christains are more persecuted than Muslims, Mormons, Jews, Jehovah's Witnesses?

No I don't really want to turn this into a religious discussion, but seriously think about the paragraph you just wrote. Sorry you had some bad experiences, but your perception is skewed.

[Dreadnought]

Really? Christains are more persecuted than Muslims, Mormons, Jews, Jehovah's Witnesses?

No I don't really want to turn this into a religious discussion, but seriously think about the paragraph you just wrote. Sorry you had some bad experiences, but your perception is skewed.

Not all that implausible any more - its the bigotry all the Kool Kids get to indulge in after all

[Thnikkaman]

Not all that implausible any more - its the bigotry all the Kool Kids get to indulge in after all

We all get discriminated for one thing or another. Weather its race, religion, weight, social group, political standing, etc...

To say that one group is more persecuted than other is ridiculous. I can see the perception trending towards Christains being persecuted. Look at the shining examples some of the Christian zealots have given us. But in this country, you can walk around without fear of being arrested because you have accepted Jesus. Ask a Muslim if they feel that way.

Its one thing to be mocked by a group of college students that are engaging in herd mentality. Its another to actually be persecuted.

[TXBRONC]

We all get discriminated for one thing or another. Weather its race, religion, weight, social group, political standing, etc...

To say that one group is more persecuted than other is ridiculous. I can see the perception trending towards Christains being persecuted. Look at the shining examples some of the Christian zealots have given us. But in this country, you can walk around without fear of being arrested because you have accepted Jesus. Ask a Muslim if they feel that way.

Its one thing to be mocked by a group of college students that are engaging in herd mentality. Its another to actually be persecuted.

So you're saying on the one hand it's just a perception that Christians are more persecuted yet Muslims can feel they are persecuted in our country therefore they are? Is it illegal to be a Muslim in the U.S.? The simple answer is no it's not. Yet in places like Saudi Arabia and Iran it is illegal to be a Christian.

Being mocked is a form of persecution. Calling it herd mentality doesn't make any less a form of persecution.

[Softskull]

Sounds to me like a 1st amendment violation, to me.

Well, CBS can just not sell you the ad space. If you want the slot, drop the offensive word(s) and pay 1.5 million dollars.:eek:

[CoachChaz]

Try being an Agnostic. Then you'll truly know what it's like to be ignorantly judged for your beliefs and opinions

[Softskull]

I heard that Agnostics have "special" relationships with animals.:elefant:

[honz]

Try being an Agnostic. Then you'll truly know what it's like to be ignorantly judged for your beliefs and opinions
You mean atheist? That means you don't believe in God, right?

/ignorance

[honz]

Not all that implausible any more - its the bigotry all the Kool Kids get to indulge in after all
I don't know the numbers, but I believe Christianity is still the religion of choice for the majority of this country which would mean that the bigotry they face is less than those of other religions. And it's not just non-Christians that "talk down" on Christians...just look what is said about the Mormons by fellow Christians.

[CoachChaz]

I heard that Agnostics have "special" relationships with animals.:elefant:

See what I mean


You mean atheist? That means you don't believe in God, right?

/ignorance

Atheists believe there is no God and come up with weird reasons why. Agnostics just dont believe one way or the other. Agonstics can see a valid argument for the existence AND the non-existence of God. Fence-sitters just waiting on proof one way or the other.

[honz]

See what I mean



Atheists believe there is no God and come up with weird reasons why. Agnostics just dont believe one way or the other. Agonstics can see a valid argument for the existence AND the non-existence of God. Fence-sitters just waiting on proof one way or the other.

It was a joke man!

[CoachChaz]

It was a joke man!

I know...I was just running with it

[KyleOrtonArmySoldier#128]

To be agnostic is not the same as being Atheist, Agnostics are looking for the answers and engaging in a quest for truth, Atheists believe there is no creator. Not the same thing.

[honz]

:tsk:

[Thnikkaman]

So you're saying on the one hand it's just a perception that Christians are more persecuted yet Muslims can feel they are persecuted in our country therefore they are? Is it illegal to be a Muslim in the U.S.? The simple answer is no it's not. Yet in places like Saudi Arabia and Iran it is illegal to be a Christian.

Being mocked is a form of persecution. Calling it herd mentality doesn't make any less a form of persecution.

I'm saying that Christians are not any more persecuted than any other religion. Period.

I'm not saying that it doesn't suck to be picked on based on your beliefs.

I'm not saying that sometimes it is hard to defend your faith when you are being profiled based on someone who has vocally taken your faith and twisted it into something it wasn't intended to be.

I'm not saying that America isn't a great place to live.

And finally, its not any more illegal to be Muslim in the U.S. than it was to be black in this country during the early 20th century.

[DenBronx]

Tim Tebow has been sanctified and filled with the Holy Spirit like Samson and has been blessed with a lazer rocket arm to throw bullets, Rhino legs to run over fools, Cheeta like feet to break ankles, a football brain like Einstien, cat like reflexes and looks like Wolverine.

Can I get an amen up in here?


Can somebody say thankyaaa Jesussssssss

[T.K.O.]

tom cruise thinks this should be moved to p&r
and then we can talk about alien gods:beer:

[LawDog]

Sounds to me like a 1st amendment violation, to me.

Thank God that CBS is not the government (well not officially, being a sychophant doesn't count) and the 1st amendment only prevents government from abridging the freedom of speech. I don't have to let you say whatever you want should you ever be in my living room.

That being said, I'd like a link of some sort demonstrating that CBS "made" them soften the commercial and omit any reference to abortion. Personally, I doubt that occurred.

[Northman]

Tim Tebow has been sanctified and filled with the Holy Spirit like Samson and has been blessed with a lazer rocket arm to throw bullets, Rhino legs to run over fools, Cheeta like feet to break ankles, a football brain like Einstien, cat like reflexes and looks like Wolverine.

Can I get an amen up in here?


Can somebody say thankyaaa Jesussssssss

So basically he is a Liger.

[LawDog]

So basically he is a Liger.

Yeah, a Liger with bowstaff skills. I bet his bike has shocks and pegs...

[KyleOrtonArmySoldier#128]

Yeah, a Liger with bowstaff skills. I bet his bike has shocks and pegs...

I remember pegs on BMX bikes!! :lol: