Moreno 10th in tackles broken

[broncobryce]

This is from Peter Kings MMQB:

Sneak Preview of the Must-Have Book Dept.: I always love Football Outsiders Almanac, in which Aaron Schatz and his footballoutsiders.com brethren attack stats and delve into gametape like few others can. (Football Outsiders Almanac 2010 is due in stores in July, by the way.) But the FO crew has just finished its annual breakdown of tackles broken and tackles missed, and two of the numbers that jumped out at me belonged to young turks Percy Harvin and Ray Rice. Harvin led all receivers in 2009 by a wide margin with 25 tackles broken (Wes Welker was next with 16). Here's the top 10 running backs in tackles broken in 2009:

1. Chris Johnson, Tennessee, 61
2. Ray Rice, Baltimore, 57
3. Adrian Peterson, Minnesota, 56.
4. Maurice Jones-Drew, Jacksonville, 52
5. Steven Jackson, St. Louis, 50
6. Jonathan Stewart, Carolina, 46
7. DeAngelo Williams, Carolina, 40
7. Rashard Mendenhall, Pittsburgh, 40
9. Fred Jackson, Buffalo, 35
10. Knowshon Moreno, Denver, 33

A broken tackle, as defined by Football Outsiders, is either a play in which the defender has the ballcarrier wrapped up -- or a play in which the ballcarrier fakes a defender out of his jock. Subjective, but you get the point. It's a good measure of hard runners and elusive runners, at the same time.

Read More: http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2010/writers/peter_king/05/02/offseason/2.html#ixzz0muPCe4l6
Get a free NFL Team Jacket and Tee with SI Subscription

[broncobryce]

And he will be even better next season. COUNT ON IT!

[Italianmobstr7]

Surprised Marshall isn't first in broken tackles for WRs. I hope Knowshon goes for 1500 and 15 tds this year!

[underrated29]

Surprised Marshall isn't first in broken tackles for WRs. I hope Knowshon goes for 1500 and 15 tds this year!


I hope so too, but it will be hard in JMFMD system for ANY RB to do that. I do however, think that knowshon can/will eclipse 2k total yardage.

He technically had 9 tds last year. Although we all know the San diego one the ball clearly crossed the line before it came out. So 10 tds...I think he could easily add 5 to that with the new stronger line and another years worth exp, etc.


Knowshon is plain and simple a stud.

[arapaho2]

I hope so too, but it will be hard in JMFMD system for ANY RB to do that. I do however, think that knowshon can/will eclipse 2k total yardage.

He technically had 9 tds last year. Although we all know the San diego one the ball clearly crossed the line before it came out. So 10 tds...I think he could easily add 5 to that with the new stronger line and another years worth exp, etc.


Knowshon is plain and simple a stud.


or without marshall dragging coverage and being replaced by a poor route running wr who will be single covered where marshall was doubled...and still haveing a shallow pass offense, and clady comeing off injury , and two rookie interior lineman

moreno may find it even harder yet to get going

[Bosco]

I hope so too, but it will be hard in JMFMD system for ANY RB to do that. I do however, think that knowshon can/will eclipse 2k total yardage.

I think you'll be surprised. Corey Dillion ran for 1600 in 2004 when Weis was calling the plays and Josh used him and Maroney heavily in the rare times they were healthy.

Provided that he stays healthy, he's very likely to put up big yardage numbers.

[KyleOrtonArmySoldier#128]

or without marshall dragging coverage and being replaced by a poor route running wr who will be single covered where marshall was doubled...and still haveing a shallow pass offense, and clady comeing off injury , and two rookie interior lineman

moreno may find it even harder yet to get going

You always gotta rain on my parade.

[honz]

I guess our run blocking really was that bad huh?

[rocks]

Surprised Marshall isn't first in broken tackles for WRs. I hope Knowshon goes for 1500 and 15 tds this year!

Harvin has that honor. He's a bi*** to bring down. Was at UF and continued in the NFL.

[LRtagger]

No way. According to the gurus Moreno falls over when a defender breaths on him. This list must be inaccurate.

[T.K.O.]

or without marshall dragging coverage and being replaced by a poor route running wr who will be single covered where marshall was doubled...and still haveing a shallow pass offense, and clady comeing off injury , and two rookie interior lineman

moreno may find it even harder yet to get going

you can always hope.....for the worst !
that does'nt mean we all have to join you !

[broncobryce]

or without marshall dragging coverage and being replaced by a poor route running wr who will be single covered where marshall was doubled...and still haveing a shallow pass offense, and clady comeing off injury , and two rookie interior lineman

moreno may find it even harder yet to get going

Don't worry man, your beloved sparklers will do just fine.....

[gobroncsnv]

Perhaps the best move Josh made in the early rounds of the draft was not taking a running back... we've got one. Just gotta give him an oline and a more of a power blocking scheme. I think he'll do better than last year.

[tomjonesrocks]

Hate to say it, but he has the look of a Lawrence Maroney-dead-average RB to me. I'm wholly unimpressed with Moreno thusfar.

Hope I'm proven wrong and he shows something at least *remotely* resembling first-round potential this upcoming year.

[broncofaninfla]

Buck ran just fine behind that same line when he was healthy. I'm not sold on Moreno at all. He reminds me of Peter Warrick. Tons of hype out of college but never lived up to the billing. I hope I'm wrong but I saw nothing special in Moreno last year. He looked like a mid round RB to me at best, certainly not the first RB taken. In his references to his first draft as head coach, Mcd almost appeared to be making excuses for that draft saying he didn't have enough time to prep for that draft, I can't help but think if he was able to do it over would he still take Moreno over Orakpo?

[claymore]

Buck ran just fine behind that same line when he was healthy. I'm not sold on Moreno at all. He reminds me of Peter Warrick. Tons of hype out of college but never lived up to the billing. I hope I'm wrong but I saw nothing special in Moreno last year. He looked like a mid round RB to me at best, certainly not the first RB taken. In his references to his first draft as head coach, Mcd almost appeared to be making excuses for that draft saying he didn't have enough time to prep for that draft, I can't help but think if he was able to do it over would he still take Moreno over Orakpo?

I think if McD looked at the 2009 draft he would do alot of things different. Look at the 2009 draft, and Moreno was the best rookie we had by far.

He is the least of our concerns IMO.

We had 8 very high picks in the last 2 years. I count 1, maybe 2 starters off of that list. And Thomas has a foot injury, he has also never taken a snap in the NFL.

2010
Round 1, Pick 22 (22) WR Demaryius Thomas, Georgia Tech
Round 1, Pick 25 (25) QB Tim Tebow, Florida
Round 2, Pick 13 (45) OL Zane Beadles, Utah
Round 3, Pick 17 (80) C J.D. Walton, Baylor
Round 3, Pick 23 (87) WR Eric Decker, Minnesota
Round 5, Pick 6 (137) CB Perrish Cox, Oklahoma State
Round 6, Pick 14 (183) OL Eric Olsen, Notre Dame
Round 7, Pick 18 (225) CB Syd'Quan Thompson, Cal
Round 7, Pick 25 (232) LB Jammie Kirlew, Indiana

2009
Round 1, Pick (12) RB Knowshon Moreno Georgia
Round 1, Pick (18) DE Robert Ayers Tennessee
Round 2, Pick (37) CB Alphonso Smith Wake Forest
Round 2, Pick (48) FS Darcel McBath Texas Tech
Round 2, Pick (64) TE Richard Quinn N.Carolina
Round 4, Pick (114) FS David Bruton Notre Dame
Round 4, Pick (132) OG Seth Olsen Iowa
Round 5, Pick (141) WR Kenny McKinley S.Carolina
Round 6, Pick (174) QB Tom Brandstater Fresno State
Round 7, Pick (225) C Blake Schleuter TCU

[xzn]

Clay, looking at your list the following will be starters this year, barring injury or an unknown phenomenon emerging out of camp:

Moreno
Ayers

But, also, these guys IMO are likely starters next year:

D. Thomas
J.D. Walton
Zane Beadles

Looking towards the 2011-12 season I think Tebow will be starting by then, if not sooner.

Eric Decker, Seth Olsen, Alphonso Smith, Darcel Mc Bath, David Bruton and Richard Quinn are all players who currently represent depth with upside and could develop into starters as the aging players ahead of them on the depth chart decline, are released, become injured or just move on into retirement.

So, in my view, that's two starters and three more likely starters THIS YEAR. Plus another seven guys who have starter potential and are quality depth right now.

To me that's not a bad draft haul at all!

[claymore]

Clay, looking at your list the following will be starters this year, barring injury or an unknown phenomenon emerging out of camp:

Moreno
Ayers

But, also, these guys IMO are likely starters next year:

D. Thomas
J.D. Walton
Zane Beadles

Looking towards the 2011-12 season I think Tebow will be starting by then, if not sooner.

Eric Decker, Seth Olsen, Alphonso Smith, Darcel Mc Bath, David Bruton and Richard Quinn are all players who currently represent depth with upside and could develop into starters as the aging players ahead of them on the depth chart decline, are released, become injured or just move on into retirement.

So, in my view, that's two starters and three more likely starters THIS YEAR. Plus another seven guys who have starter potential and are quality depth right now.

To me that's not a bad draft haul at all!

Out of 19 players selected( 8 of which were taken in the first 65 selections of both drafts) we need to have more starters and some damn fine quality depth.

Re-looking the list I see Olsen, Thomas, Ayers, and Moreno as starters.


***edit, I deleted the rest of the post because it was kinda negative!

[Lonestar]

While I didn't see about 8 games last year live and a few more streaming. That said IIRC he was not all that great in breaking tackles and certaianly did not fake anyone out of their jocks.

I also know that the OL was not his "friend". Yes bucky had some nice runs but that was experience at work.

IF clady is ready to rock and roll IMO not likely with the OL size upgrade in the draft the running game should be improved.


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[claymore]

While I didn't see about 8 games last year live and a few more streaming. That said IIRC he was not all that great in breaking tackles and certaianly did not fake anyone out of their jocks.

I also know that the OL was not his "friend". Yes bucky had some nice runs but that was experience at work.

IF clady is ready to rock and roll IMO not likely with the OL size upgrade in the draft the running game should be improved.


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I dont see the size upgrade. Of the 3 lineman we drafted a 310, 305, and 306 pounders. Our lightest guy is Ryan Harris at 300 lbs. If all these guys were to start we may actually have a smaller line than last year. ESPECIALLY if Clady is out.

[shank]

I dont see the size upgrade. Of the 3 lineman we drafted a 310, 305, and 306 pounders. Our lightest guy is Ryan Harris at 300 lbs. If all these guys were to start we may actually have a smaller line than last year. ESPECIALLY if Clady is out.

hamilton and wiegman both played at 285. we got significantly bigger in the middle with these additions, which is where most of our struggles in the running game were last season.

[claymore]

hamilton and wiegman both played at 285. we got significantly bigger in the middle with these additions, which is where most of our struggles in the running game were last season.

Hamilton got benched, but you are correct. I dint consider them cause they arent here any longer.

[shank]

Hamilton got benched, but you are correct. I dint consider them cause they arent here any longer.

and weight isn't the only way to get "bigger." tommy nalen never played like he was 285 because of his demeanor on the field. hamilton, wiegman, and hochstein don't seam to have much nastyness in how they play... but these rooks all play with some fire.

[claymore]

and weight isn't the only way to get "bigger." tommy nalen never played like he was 285 because of his demeanor on the field. hamilton, wiegman, and hochstein don't seam to have much nastyness in how they play... but these rooks all play with some fire.

I sure hope they do. I hope McD's theory works, and his drafting is much better than I think it is.

[underrated29]

JR- go watch the dallas game, the browns game, the giants game and the first chefs game...And once you are done I think you will rescind your "i didnt see him juke anyone out of their socks" statement.



I am not going to say Orakpo sucks, but the guy is playing on a stacked defense! He also had Haynesworth in the middle eating up 2-3 guys every play. Orakpo was not soley a product of the talent around him, but if he were here I think his numbers would not be even close to the 7 or however many sacks he produced. We made the right call, with Knowshon.

[SOCALORADO.]

I sure hope they do. I hope McD's theory works, and his drafting is much better than I think it is.

NEs offensive line isnt really any bigger than DENs right now. No real big leap there.
Connolly 313
Koppen 305
Larsen 306
Kaczur 315
Mankins 310
Light 305
Vollmer 315

[arapaho2]

You always gotta rain on my parade.


soon as you figure out life isnt all parades and parties...the better off you'l be

just keeping it real...for all we know the substractions and addition might not bear a better run game..it could...but it also may be worse

[Lonestar]

I dont see the size upgrade. Of the 3 lineman we drafted a 310, 305, and 306 pounders. Our lightest guy is Ryan Harris at 300 lbs. If all these guys were to start we may actually have a smaller line than last year. ESPECIALLY if Clady is out.


Absolutely there will be a size upgrade. Hamilton played at small 285 and was in the back field almost as much as Orton or Simms was.

Casey without decent help on both side of him frankly was not the same as the year before.

He also was playing at or about 285, the new guys IIRC are all 305 or better, that is 15-20 pounds to FRESH more Muscle than the old fellows had.

Plus IF Harris is back that means Kuper can actually only worry about his interior blocking and not have to help out polumbus.

I do not see Clady being back this year at the level we are accustomed, maybe 2011 and beyond. He maybe in the line up but he will not 100% for 12-18 months.


SO IF all goes at the BEST case scenario we will have much bigger guys with fresher legs than EVER before.

[SOCALORADO.]

Absolutely there will be a size upgrade. Hamilton poled at mauve 285 and was in the back field almost as much as Orton or Simms was. Casey without decent help on both side of him frankly was not the same as the year before.

He also was playing at or about 285, the new guys IIRC are all 305 or better, that is 15-20 pounds to FRESH more Muscle than the old fellows had.

Plus IF Harris is back that means Kuper can actually only worry about his interior blocking and not have to help out polumbus.

I do not see Clady being back this year at the level we are accustomed, maybe 2011 and beyond. He maybe in the line up but he will not 100% for 12-18 months.


SO IF all goes at the BEST case scenario we will have much bigger guys with fresher legs than EVER before.

Gimme your projected starting line up

[Lonestar]

JR- go watch the dallas game, the browns game, the giants game and the first chefs game...And once you are done I think you will rescind your "i didnt see him juke anyone out of their socks" statement.



I am not going to say Orakpo sucks, but the guy is playing on a stacked defense! He also had Haynesworth in the middle eating up 2-3 guys every play. Orakpo was not soley a product of the talent around him, but if he were here I think his numbers would not be even close to the 7 or however many sacks he produced. We made the right call, with Knowshon.

Like I said I did not see it and unfortunately my DVR that I had went tits up. so anything I had on it is history. I will take your word on it as I can not disprove it,

I think he wail be a damned fine RB for years but he is no TD.

[Lonestar]

Gimme your projected starting line up

OLT Harris if clady is indeed out or playing at 80%
OLG Olsen
OC TD Walton
ORG Kuper ONly returning vet to same spot
ORt Beadles. Grooming him for the blind side OT

Polumbus May surprise us not having great coaching last year and being thrown to the wolves early may not have shown him in the best light. Big kid that is real raw.

Hockstein journey man Jack of all trades.

Not even sure who else is out there. Think there is another Rookie OL guy who might beat out Olsen.
i

[SOCALORADO.]

OLT Harris if clady is indeed out or playing at 80%
OLG Olsen
OC TD Walton
ORG Kuper ONly returning vet to same spot
ORt Beadles. Grooming him for the blind side OT

Polumbus May surprise us not having great coaching last year and being thrown to the wolves early may not have shown him in the best light. Big kid that is real raw.

Hockstein journey man Jack of all trades.

Not even sure who else is out there. Think there is another Rookie OL guy who might beat out Olsen.
i

OLT Harris
OLG Olsen
C Walton
ORG Kuper
ORT Beadles

I actually like this line up and think they will be a young, athletic, mean, nasty O-line. I have really high hopes for this line up myself.
Now, they are alot of young guys, so theres going to be some kinks that need to be worked out, but most of these guys are smart, athletic and hard workers.
Question- Who would you like to see at QB with this line up?

[LoyalSoldier]

Um can we actually think about the stats given? That is the total number of broken tackles, but the stat alone is kind of worthless. Why?

How many carries did it take him to break that many tackles?

When we take a look at the carries we see Moreno did less in more carries than some of the others on that list.


1. Chris Johnson, Tennessee, 61 in 358 (0.17 tack/att)
2. Ray Rice, Baltimore, 57 in 254 (0.22 tack/att)
3. Adrian Peterson, Minnesota, 56. in 314 (0.18 tack/att)
4. Maurice Jones-Drew, Jacksonville, 52 in 312 (0.17 tack/att)
5. Steven Jackson, St. Louis, 50 in 324 (0.15 tack/att)
6. Jonathan Stewart, Carolina, 46 in 221 (0.21 tack/att)
7. DeAngelo Williams, Carolina, 40 in 216 (0.19 tack/att)
7. Rashard Mendenhall, Pittsburgh, 40 in 242 (0.17 tack/att)
9. Fred Jackson, Buffalo, 35 in 237 (0.15 tack/att)
10. Knowshon Moreno, Denver, 33 in 274 attempts (0.12 tackles/att)

Or in other words, his broken tackle number may have been inflated.

Does it actually mean he was a good runner? Maybe others were better runners because they weren't in a position to be tackled in the first place.


I am sorry, but that stat alone means nothing because it is too narrow of an indicator. I can seriously find a dozen flaws with it. I am not bashing Moreno so much as saying, this is rather inconclusive.

[Softskull]

I did the same thing.
BT ATT
2. Ray Rice, Baltimore, 57 254 22.44%
6. Jonathan Stewart, Carolina, 46 221 20.81%
7. DeAngelo Williams, Carolina, 40 216 18.52%
3. Adrian Peterson, Minnesota, 56 314 17.83%
1. Chris Johnson, Tennessee, 61 358 17.04%
4. Maurice Jones-Drew, Jacksonville 52 312 16.67%
7. Rashard Mendenhall, Pittsburgh, 40 242 16.53%
5. Steven Jackson, St. Louis, 50 324 15.43%
9. Fred Jackson, Buffalo, 35 237 14.77%
10. Knowshon Moreno, Denver, 33 247 13.36%

That's one broken tackle for every 8ish attempts as compared to Ray rice breaking one every 4-5. That same article/spreadsheet has scored Moreno as the 34th best runner of 2009.

[Bosco]

Hate to say it, but he has the look of a Lawrence Maroney-dead-average RB to me. I'm wholly unimpressed with Moreno thusfar. Except that Maroney's struggles come largely as a result of not being able to stay healthy while behind one of the best lines in football.

[Spiritguy]

I hope so too, but it will be hard in JMFMD system for ANY RB to do that. I do however, think that knowshon can/will eclipse 2k total yardage.


Knowshon had 247 attempts last season so he would only need 6.07 yards per attempt to hit 1500. ;) That is if he has that many attempts again. He would only need 8.07 per, for 2000. Heck ya, go for it kid. :D

Edit: so is it 247 or 274? this place (http://www.cbssports.com/nfl/players/playerpage/1114939/knowshon-moreno) has it at 247. if it's 274 that 1500 would be 5.47 and 2000 is 7.29 hmmmmmm

[Lonestar]

OLT Harris
OLG Olsen
C Walton
ORG Kuper
ORT Beadles

I actually like this line up and think they will be a young, athletic, mean, nasty O-line. I have really high hopes for this line up myself.
Now, they are alot of young guys, so theres going to be some kinks that need to be worked out, but most of these guys are smart, athletic and hard workers.
Question- Who would you like to see at QB with this line up? thnikn any the three will be fine this year.

But if we are taking about winning then it is ORton as he has had experience with the Play book , coaches and Players.

I think that Quinn has had a bad rap because of the team , coaches he was with.

I suspect that he will be the starter or Backup in 11 depending on how Tim does.

Orton will have a great contract year and quiet some nimrods in the NFL, press and go to a team that pays the most.

[broncobryce]

All those guys have at least one season under their belt while Moreno does not. I figured someone would downplay it.

[Softskull]

All those guys have at least one season under their belt while Moreno does not. I figured someone would downplay it.

You're right. Moreno will improve with time. I dont have any way to get the stats, but I'll bet Moreno was much better breaking tackles in the first eight games than the latter eight. He really looked worn down in the end. A year of NFL conditioning should improve things.

[honz]

Moreno > Tebow. There, I said it.

[Lonestar]

You're right. Moreno will improve with time. I dont have any way to get the stats, but I'll bet Moreno was much better breaking tackles in the first eight games than the latter eight. He really looked worn down in the end. A year of NFL conditioning should improve things. he definitely hit the rookie wall. we can hope he will be better prepared next year.

[shank]

he definitely hit the rookie wall. we can hope he will be better prepared next year.

it didn't help that McD overplayed him when bucky was hurt.

[LoyalSoldier]

All those guys have at least one season under their belt while Moreno does not. I figured someone would downplay it.

And I knew some would blow it out of proportion. I just put the stats into light. I would do the same thing if he was a 7 year running back because I absolutely hate narrow stats that suggest something we didn't see on the field.

[Lonestar]

it didn't help that McD overplayed him when bucky was hurt.


Absolutely but then we thought going from Club Dove Valley conditioning to CLub Dread the players would be able to with stand late year failings.

They found out it did not so are changing it up again this year.

[Elevation inc]

moreno scored more TD's in the redzone than any back we have had since mike bell.....at least with moreno we are heading upwards.....he may not be there yet, and many of you are impatient expecting chris johnson highlights from him every game.....but the fact is our run game is evolving to where it needs to be....unless you want selvin young and his 700 yds and 2 Td's back as our starter.....and our 285 Lb interior ZBs line back.....yikes!!!!


moreno is tough played through some diffucult injuries, and wore down afrter our OL broke down it happens.....

mendehall, stewart, deangelo williams, cedric benson, those guys are all franchise runners right now....guess what they have in common.....none had a great rookie year......

sometimes you have to be patient with draft picks......we have only 1 surefire bust on thsi team still from a recent draft and thats jarvis moss.....his buddy thomas is almost there as well......but guys like moreno, smith, ayers.....do we wanna see more hell yeah....but sometimes it takes more than the six months they get as rookies....

[broncobryce]

And I knew some would blow it out of proportion. I just put the stats into light. I would do the same thing if he was a 7 year running back because I absolutely hate narrow stats that suggest something we didn't see on the field.

That's cool, but I DID see him breaking tackles on the field. Now, I'm not saying the guy is the second coming of Barry Sanders, but he broke tackles. I was encouraged by what I saw from him last year. Everyone has their opinion I guess.

[BroncoWave]

moreno scored more TD's in the redzone than any back we have had since mike bell.....at least with moreno we are heading upwards.....he may not be there yet, and many of you are impatient expecting chris johnson highlights from him every game.....but the fact is our run game is evolving to where it needs to be....unless you want selvin young and his 700 yds and 2 Td's back as our starter.....and our 285 Lb interior ZBs line back.....yikes!!!!


moreno is tough played through some diffucult injuries, and wore down afrter our OL broke down it happens.....

mendehall, stewart, deangelo williams, cedric benson, those guys are all franchise runners right now....guess what they have in common.....none had a great rookie year......

sometimes you have to be patient with draft picks......we have only 1 surefire bust on thsi team still from a recent draft and thats jarvis moss.....his buddy thomas is almost there as well......but guys like moreno, smith, ayers.....do we wanna see more hell yeah....but sometimes it takes more than the six months they get as rookies....

Excellent post. People already calling some of our players who were rookies last year busts are absolutely laughable. I'm not saying he will be great but anyone who is declaring Moreno a bust after last season is off their rocker IMO. I'm not saying they couldn't wind up being right but it is WAY too early to make that kind of declaration.

[Softskull]

Here's a different groups perspective using "elusive" as the measure.

"Finally a look at the 2009 rookie class. Wells topped the rookies, ending his season in 11th overall in the Elusive Rating with a score of 47.82, some distance ahead of the pack. Donald Brown was in 22nd place, scoring an Elusive Rating of 35.06, and Knowshon Moreno was 34th with a score of 24.44. LeSean McCoy might have impressed Philadelphia coaches with his running skills, but it hasn't translated to a top score in the Elusive Rating. McCoy ranked 40th with a score of 21.44."

http://profootballfocus.com/articles.php?tab=articles&arc=&id=162

[G8trBronc]

Moreno is quality back IMO. I wish there was a way to get Harvin to Mile High. Talk about elusive.