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SoCalImport
05-03-2010, 02:05 PM
Here's a write up from the bleacher report, and it's pretty well rounded (untill they start making lists)
http://bleacherreport.com/articles/227222-what-is-a-franchise-quarterback-exactly

I'd say one thing that make a "Franchise" QB is (same with most other positions) the perception that the franchise (owner/HC/GM/fans) are happy with their guy, and feel no need to upgrade. or make a change anytime soon.

Even if they're not winning any lombardy's yet, if the QB in question fulfills the above requirement, then HE is a "franchise" QB.
IMHO.

Northman
05-03-2010, 02:18 PM
For me:

Potential Franchise QB's

Matt Stafford—Detroit Lions

Brady Quinn—Denver Broncos

Josh Freeman—Tampa Bay Buccaneers

Vince Young—Tennessee Titans

Matt Leinart—Arizona Cardinals

Jay Cutler—Chicago Bears

Matt Schaub—Houston Texans


Franchise QB's

Mark Sanchez—New York Jets

Carson Palmer—Cincinnati Bengals

Joe Flacco—Baltimore Ravens

Drew Brees—New Orleans Saints

Phillip Rivers—San Diego Chargers

Tom Brady—New England Patriots

Eli Manning—New York Giants

Peyton Manning—Indianapolis Colts

Aaron Rodgers—Green Bay Packers

Tony Romo—Dallas Cowboys

Donovan McNabb—Washington Redskins

Ben Roethlisberger—Pittsburgh Steelers

Tned
05-03-2010, 02:26 PM
For me:

Potential Franchise QB's

Matt Stafford—Detroit Lions

Brady Quinn—Denver Broncos

Josh Freeman—Tampa Bay Buccaneers

Vince Young—Tennessee Titans

Matt Leinart—Arizona Cardinals

Jay Cutler—Chicago Bears

Matt Schaub—Houston Texans


Franchise QB's

Mark Sanchez—New York Jets

Carson Palmer—Cincinnati Bengals

Joe Flacco—Baltimore Ravens

Drew Brees—New Orleans Saints

Phillip Rivers—San Diego Chargers

Tom Brady—New England Patriots

Eli Manning—New York Giants

Peyton Manning—Indianapolis Colts

Aaron Rodgers—Green Bay Packers

Tony Romo—Dallas Cowboys

Donovan McNabb—Washington Redskins

Ben Roethlisberger—Pittsburgh Steelers

I would only quibble with a few names.

Quinn hasn't done anything (other than his first round selection) to warrant 'possible' tag, but I hope you're right.

I think Flacco needs more than two years to be a 'franchise' QB, so I would have him in the possible catagory.

Rodgers and Romo have not yet shown the consistency I would like to see to prove they are the answer for their clubs for the next 6, 8 or 10 years, which is what I want from a 'franchise' QB.

Overall, very good list. :2thumbs:

Northman
05-03-2010, 02:30 PM
I would only quibble with a few names.

Quinn hasn't done anything (other than his first round selection) to warrant 'possible' tag, but I hope you're right.

I think Flacco needs more than two years to be a 'franchise' QB, so I would have him in the possible catagory.

Rodgers and Romo have not yet shown the consistency I would like to see to prove they are the answer for their clubs for the next 6, 8 or 10 years, which is what I want from a 'franchise' QB.

Overall, very good list. :2thumbs:

Yea, i just think Quinn hasnt really been in the right situation but i could be totally off there. As for Flacco, Sanchez, Palmer, and such im pretty much giving them the benefit of the doubt because they have at least lead their respectitive teams to the playoffs and won consistently. But by the next couple of years all that could change.

Tned
05-03-2010, 02:36 PM
Yea, i just think Quinn hasnt really been in the right situation but i could be totally off there. As for Flacco, Sanchez, Palmer, and such im pretty much giving them the benefit of the doubt because they have at least lead their respectitive teams to the playoffs and won consistently. But by the next couple of years all that could change.

I missed Sanchez, or is that Sanchise, I would move him to possible as well. Palmer, I put solidly in the now category. He has been slowed by injuries, but when healthy, he's one of the better QBs in the league.

I didn't follow closely, but I thought Quinn had a decent run last year when he got in towards the end. He certainly came into the league with decent marks and many thought (when Cutler was on the trade block) that Denver would trade with Cleveland and get Quinn, because he is expected to do good in this offense (I guess because he ran a similar offense in college -- was it with Weiss?).

TXBRONC
05-03-2010, 02:40 PM
For me:

Potential Franchise QB's

Matt Stafford—Detroit Lions

Brady Quinn—Denver Broncos

Josh Freeman—Tampa Bay Buccaneers

Vince Young—Tennessee Titans

Matt Leinart—Arizona Cardinals

Jay Cutler—Chicago Bears

Matt Schaub—Houston Texans


Franchise QB's

Mark Sanchez—New York Jets

Carson Palmer—Cincinnati Bengals

Joe Flacco—Baltimore Ravens

Drew Brees—New Orleans Saints

Phillip Rivers—San Diego Chargers

Tom Brady—New England Patriots

Eli Manning—New York Giants

Peyton Manning—Indianapolis Colts

Aaron Rodgers—Green Bay Packers

Tony Romo—Dallas Cowboys

Donovan McNabb—Washington Redskins

Ben Roethlisberger—Pittsburgh Steelers

I think an argument could be made to place Matt Ryan on either one of your lists. Personally I would put on the list of franchise quarterbacks.

Tned
05-03-2010, 02:42 PM
I think an argument could be made to place Matt Ryan on either one of your lists. Personally I would put on the list of franchise quarterbacks.

I know he had a real good rookie year, can't remember what kind of year he had last year.

Northman
05-03-2010, 02:43 PM
I think an argument could be made to place Matt Ryan on either one of your lists. Personally I would put on the list of franchise quarterbacks.

Actually, i thought i had him on there. He would make my list of franchise QB's so good pickup.

TXBRONC
05-03-2010, 02:45 PM
I know he had a real good rookie year, can't remember what kind of year he had last year.

He didn't have as good of year as he did as rookie but still not bad.

TXBRONC
05-03-2010, 02:46 PM
Actually, i thought i had him on there. He would make my list of franchise QB's so good pickup.

You can't always remember everybody.:beer:

SOCALORADO.
05-03-2010, 02:57 PM
I think an argument could be made to place Matt Ryan on either one of your lists. Personally I would put on the list of franchise quarterbacks.

I would put Tony Romo on the potential list myself. But you basically got it.
Romo is just waaay overrated to me. I think this year will be his make or break year.

HORSEPOWER 56
05-03-2010, 02:58 PM
I completely disagree with bleacher report on a lot of what they consider a franchise QB (especially their "lists" of who they think the "franchise" QBs are.

Here's my definition of a "franchise" QB:

1) Most important, LEADERSHIP. This doesn't mean the QB has to have a big mouth or be a rah, rah guy nor is he necessarily a leader because he's a "first in - last out" at practice kind of guy. In this case, leadership is determined by his ability to a) motivate his teammates to elevate their game and b) do so himself in situations where he has to "lead" his team to victory. If a team never feels out of the game because ______ is under center, that's what I'm talking about.

2) He has to have an "it" factor. What the hell do I mean by that? I mean that he has to have something... maybe it's a strong arm or quick release, maybe it's pinpoint accuracy, maybe it's the ability to make plays with his legs, maybe it's his ability to either stand in the pocket with ice-water in his veins and make the throw even if he's going to get blasted or his ability to manipulate the pocket by simply sidestepping the rush... that other teams must specifically game plan for. Something that makes other teams' DCs say "shit we have to play _____ this week and he's so good at ______". He doesn't necessarily have to have all of the above, just something that he does so well that he's tough to stop.

3) He has to be able to make all the throws and be able to make the defense defend every blade of grass. No matter what scheme you run, be it the good old fashioned smash-mouth run game or an air-it-out Coryell approach, the QB must be able to take advantage of mismatches in coverage. If your QB can't reliably make all the throws then defenses will take away the throws he can make. If your QB can't challenge deep (be it arm strength or accuracy), the defense will crowd the box. If the QB isn't accurate, the defense will just play in their lanes and force the receivers to move laterally to come open. If the QB doesn't have a strong arm, the defense will play more aggressive and attempt to jump the underneath routes or won't worry about certain routes in the route tree at all (the 15-20 yd out is one of the hardest throws to make... defenses know this and won't worry about covering it if your QB can't throw it).

These are the things that make up a "franchise QB" In my opinion.


Most QBs in the league have one or two of the above qualities, very few have all three. Having all three is what makes you a "franchise QB" to me.

SOCALORADO.
05-03-2010, 03:04 PM
I completely disagree with bleacher report on a lot of what they consider a franchise QB (especially their "lists" of who they think the "franchise" QBs are.

Here's my definition of a "franchise" QB:

1) Most important, LEADERSHIP. This doesn't mean the QB has to have a big mouth or be a rah, rah guy nor is he necessarily a leader because he's a "first in - last out" at practice kind of guy. In this case, leadership is determined by his ability to a) motivate his teammates to elevate their game and b) do so himself in situations where he has to "lead" his team to victory. If a team never feels out of the game because ______ is under center, that's what I'm talking about.

2) He has to have an "it" factor. What the hell do I mean by that? I mean that he has to have something... maybe it's a strong arm or quick release, maybe it's pinpoint accuracy, maybe it's the ability to make plays with his legs, maybe it's his ability to either stand in the pocket with ice-water in his veins and make the throw even if he's going to get blasted or his ability to manipulate the pocket by simply sidestepping the rush... that other teams must specifically game plan for. Something that makes other teams' DCs say "shit we have to play _____ this week and he's so good at ______". He doesn't necessarily have to have all of the above, just something that he does so well that he's tough to stop.

3) He has to be able to make all the throws and be able to make the defense defend every blade of grass. No matter what scheme you run, be it the good old fashioned smash-mouth run game or an air-it-out Coryell approach, the QB must be able to take advantage of mismatches in coverage. If your QB can't reliably make all the throws then defenses will take away the throws he can make. If your QB can't challenge deep (be it arm strength or accuracy), the defense will crowd the box. If the QB isn't accurate, the defense will just play in their lanes and force the receivers to move laterally to come open. If the QB doesn't have a strong arm, the defense will play more aggressive and attempt to jump the underneath routes or won't worry about certain routes in the route tree at all (the 15-20 yd out is one of the hardest throws to make... defenses know this and won't worry about covering it if your QB can't throw it).

These are the things that make up a "franchise QB" In my opinion.


Most QBs in the league have one or two of the above qualities, very few have all three. Having all three is what makes you a "franchise QB" to me.

Something like this.

But Elway’s career has been about more than just winning. It has been about escaping defeat a half page from the end of the novel, leaping over pits of fire with the microdot hidden in his cigarette lighter. On first down Elway was ‘pretty average,’ his Stanford coach Paul Wiggin once said. But when the elementary school kids are being held hostage and the detonator reads 00:03, who would you rather have clipping the wires than Elway? He may be the only quarterback in history who could stand on his own two-yard line, trailing by five with less than two minutes to play, no timeouts left, windchill –5, and cause the opposing coach to mutter, ‘We’re in trouble.’” --Rick Reilly, Sports Illustrated, qtd. in Austin Murphy’s The Super Bowl: Sports Greatest Championship

LTC Pain
05-03-2010, 03:30 PM
Start with Japorkus the Hutt (Jemarcus Russell), turn 180 degrees and go as fast as you can the other direction :)

Italianmobstr7
05-03-2010, 03:41 PM
I think that a franchise QB is someone who:

1: Makes the other players around him better - A guy that can take over a game, and is most likely the best player on his team.

2: A guy who is a true leader- A guy who others will go to battle for. Someone who when he speaks, others listen and follow.

3: A guy who has all of the physical tools- a guy who can make every throw, and if a play breaks down can make something out of nothing (be it with his feet or arm).

My list of current franchise QB's:
Peyton Manning
Tom Brady
Drew Brees
Philip Rivers
Donovan McNabb
Ben Roethlisberger
Brett Favre
Eli Manning
Carson Palmer
Aaron Rodgers
Matt Ryan
Tony Romo

Possible Franchise QB's
Jay Cutler
Vince Young
Mark Sanchez
Joe Flacco
Matt Stafford
Matt Schaub

Possible future Franchise QB's who haven't really shown anything yet
Matt Leinart
Brady Quinn
Tim Tebow
Sam Bradford
Josh Freeman
Matt Cassell
Chad Henne
Jimmy Clausen
Colt McCoy
Alex Smith
Matt McCoy
Kevin Kolb

The guys in BOLD are the guys I think will be very good in the NFL and will be a Franchise QB sooner rather than later.

Medford Bronco
05-03-2010, 03:55 PM
My definition is to be a Pro Bowler and win some games in the playoffs. You dont have to win a Super Bowl to be a franchise QB

Examples are
Jim Kelley
Dan Marino
Warren Moon

Nomad
05-03-2010, 04:09 PM
What's the time frame you give these guys to earn and prove themselves worthy of being labeled a 'franchise' QB before writing them off....3,4,5 yrs?? A couple yrs is not enough time!!

Tned
05-03-2010, 04:11 PM
What's the time frame you give these guys to earn and prove themselves worthy of being labeled a 'franchise' QB before writing them off....3,4,5 yrs?? A couple yrs is not enough time!!

I think that like entry into the HOF, doint 'it', whatever 'it' is, needs to be done for an extended period of time.

NorthernLights
05-03-2010, 04:43 PM
I would put Tony Romo on the potential list myself. But you basically got it.
Romo is just waaay overrated to me. I think this year will be his make or break year.

If you have Philip Rivers listed, then you should have Romo too. If you look at their stats, they are almost identical. I'm not a big Romo fan but his numbers stack up very well.

He is #4 in career QB passer ratings, .2 behind Rivers. Aaron Rogers is number 1 with Steve Young is #2.

Tned
05-03-2010, 04:45 PM
If you have Philip Rivers listed, then you should have Romo too. If you look at their stats, they are almost identical. I'm not a big Romo fan but his numbers stack up very well.

He is #4 in career QB passer ratings, .2 behind Rivers. Aaron Rogers is number 1 with Steve Young is #2.

I know Romo has a high passer rating, but as much as it pains me to say it, Rivers seems like a more reliable go-to QB, where Romo has had some of his worst games when the team most needed him. However, that may be my anti-Cowboy bias showing through. ;)

T.K.O.
05-03-2010, 04:57 PM
Actually, i thought i had him on there. He would make my list of franchise QB's so good pickup.

if ryan is a "franchise qb" then orton has to qualify as well.here's some #s on a few of your listed qb's last year

qb yds td's ints

palmer 3094 21 13

sanchez 2444 12 20

ryan 2916 22 14

flacco 3613 21 12

delhomme 2015 8 18

mcnabb 3553 22 10

cutler 3666 27 26

quinn 1339 8 7

orton 3802 21 12

SOCALORADO.
05-03-2010, 05:01 PM
If you have Philip Rivers listed, then you should have Romo too. If you look at their stats, they are almost identical. I'm not a big Romo fan but his numbers stack up very well.

He is #4 in career QB passer ratings, .2 behind Rivers. Aaron Rogers is number 1 with Steve Young is #2.

Meh. Rivers wins games in comeback fashion. He has balls, and will find a way to win. No running game, no problem, Rivers finds a way. Passer rating doesnt mean squat, its those comeback wins in INDY or NY, those mean something. And yes, i hate quivers. but even i can see he has ice in his veins and is not to be underestimated.
Romo chokes more times than he brings his team back and wins a game at the end. Romo has alot to prove still. He has benefitted from a very good offense, and hasnt produced. This year will be his make or break year.
I just dont think opposing defenses are weary of Romo the way they are of Rivers.
Its just my 2 cents.

GGMoogly
05-03-2010, 05:04 PM
When it comes to QBs, there is Tebow and there is not-Tebow. On this team we have Tebow, and not-Tebow 1, not-Tebow 2, and not-Tebow 3.

dogfish
05-03-2010, 05:10 PM
What is a Franchise QB?


easiest question i've heard in weeks. . . .



http://img217.imageshack.us/img217/9753/johnelwayphotographc121.jpg (http://img217.imageshack.us/i/johnelwayphotographc121.jpg/)

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GGMoogly
05-03-2010, 05:13 PM
easiest question i've heard in weeks. . . .



http://img217.imageshack.us/img217/9753/johnelwayphotographc121.jpg (http://img217.imageshack.us/i/johnelwayphotographc121.jpg/)

Uploaded with ImageShack.us (http://imageshack.us)

Isn't this also the answer to the most FUN quarterback ever to watch? ;)

FanInAZ
05-03-2010, 07:53 PM
My concept of a franchise player, QB or otherwise, is that he is the one that the entire offense or defense is built around. Such players are believed, whether its true or not, to have the ability to succeed as the focal point of the franchise as long as they have adequate support from his teammate. On offense, the franchise player is usually the QB or "featured" RB. The concept that a WR or TE could be a franchise player seems unlikely to me because they usually average about 5-6 catches a game (which would total 80-96 catches over a 16 game schedule). Marvin Harrison's record setting 143 catch season only averaged out to 8.9 catches per game. That just doesn't seem to be enough touches to me to warrant building an entire offense to suit a WR or TE. By the way, I don't believe that its a coincidence that Harrison had Payton as his franchise QB when he did it.

A team with a franchise QB would place a higher premium on OL that excel as pass blockers as well as RBs who can pick up blitzes and catch passes out of the back field. They may also want TEs that either excel as pass blockers or play a major part in catching passes down field (depending upon the HC's & OC's offensive philosophy). On the other hand, teams with a franchise RB will put a higher premium on OL that excel as run blockers as well as WRs that block down field. TE's may be used more like OL the receivers. Most will also have a big FB as a lead blocker for the franchise RB. The #1 job of the QB would to not throw INTs. His #2 job is most likely to convert on 3rd and long. The QB's #3 job will be to throw just enough passes to try to get the defenses to stop putting 8 & 9 in the box on every single play.

The problem with both of these formats is that teams that win SBs don't really use either of them. In fact, I don't recall ever hearing anyone referring to a QB that just won a SB as a franchise QB. The only time you hear this term is when your talking about a struggling franchise. The "franchise" term is nothing more then an invention media commentators and teams spokesmen designed to create hype amongst fans of struggling teams.

TXBRONC
05-03-2010, 08:04 PM
if ryan is a "franchise qb" then orton has to qualify as well.here's some #s on a few of your listed qb's last year

qb yds td's ints

palmer 3094 21 13

sanchez 2444 12 20

ryan 2916 22 14

flacco 3613 21 12

delhomme 2015 8 18

mcnabb 3553 22 10

cutler 3666 27 26

quinn 1339 8 7

orton 3802 21 12

I don't think North was basing his idea of a franchise quarterback solely on stats.

dogfish
05-03-2010, 08:11 PM
Isn't this also the answer to the most FUN quarterback ever to watch? ;)

yes. . . yes, it really is. . .

T.K.O.
05-03-2010, 08:17 PM
I don't think North was basing his idea of a franchise quarterback solely on stats.

how does sanchez qualify again?
if its not on stats is it the fact that 2 teams played their backups to let the jets in?
or is it based on college accomplishments?which would put tebow right in the mix as well......:confused:

Shazam!
05-03-2010, 08:20 PM
how does sanchez qualify again?
if its not on stats is it the fact that 2 teams played their backups to let the jets in?
or is it based on college accomplishments?which would put tebow right in the mix as well......

He has perfomed well enough in three playoff games.

TXBRONC
05-03-2010, 08:26 PM
how does sanchez qualify again?
if its not on stats is it the fact that 2 teams played their backups to let the jets in?
or is it based on college accomplishments?which would put tebow right in the mix as well......:confused:

Looking at North's list not all those quarterbacks put up eye popping numbers. We would have to ask him how he came to the conclusions that he did. The only thing I can safely say is that it's not based stat alone because some of those quarterbacks did have a great year statistically.

T.K.O.
05-03-2010, 08:26 PM
He has perfomed well enough in three playoff games.

so a 2-1 record in the playoffs makes you an instant "franchize qb"....gotcha
sorry in my book it takes more than the #1 defense and a "big break" to make the playoffs to get that status.
that means dilfer,johnson and a buttload of other qb's "franchise guys"
i think we have seen the term diminished to a player that HELPED a team get to the playoffs at that point.
so i guess there are 12 "franchise qb's made every season:laugh:

GGMoogly
05-03-2010, 08:34 PM
A better question might be, "With two minutes left, what QB scares you?"

Shazam!
05-03-2010, 08:34 PM
so a 2-1 record in the playoffs makes you an instant "franchize qb"....gotcha
sorry in my book it takes more than the #1 defense and a "big break" to make the playoffs to get that status.
that means dilfer,johnson and a buttload of other qb's "franchise guys"
i think we have seen the term diminished to a player that HELPED a team get to the playoffs at that point.
so i guess there are 12 "franchise qb's made every season.

I believe he was labeled by most here at least as a potential franchise QB. Nobody called him a worldbeater anywhere in this thread. But for a rookie he played well enough winning 2 playoff games.

TXBRONC
05-03-2010, 08:39 PM
I believe he was labeled by most here at least as a potential franchise QB. Nobody called him a worldbeater anywhere in this thread. But for a rookie he played well enough winning 2 playoff games.

Several of those quarterbacks weren't world beaters this past seaon. I think Matt Ryan is a franchise quarterback but his overall numbers were not as good as his rookie season.

Northman
05-03-2010, 08:39 PM
if ryan is a "franchise qb" then orton has to qualify as well.here's some #s on a few of your listed qb's last year

qb yds td's ints

palmer 3094 21 13

sanchez 2444 12 20

ryan 2916 22 14

flacco 3613 21 12

delhomme 2015 8 18

mcnabb 3553 22 10

cutler 3666 27 26

quinn 1339 8 7

orton 3802 21 12

Uh, no he doesnt. My putting certain QB's in that category is based off more than just stats.

horsepig
05-03-2010, 08:56 PM
Here's hoping Tebow comes through. If Vince Young performs like the flashes he produced last season-watch out.

The changing of the guard is coming and at least we have an entry.

T.K.O.
05-03-2010, 09:25 PM
I don't think North was basing his idea of a franchise quarterback solely on stats.

and i repeat...the term is being watered down to almost an insignificant status if we start to include rookies who had dismal stats but the team managed to reach the playoffs.
or include "one hit wonders"
it takes many years to attain what i believe is a "franchise qb" status
guys like peyton manning ,bret favre,john elway etc... are considered
i dont include even guys like mcnabb who have been to 5 nfccg.because as we have just seen their team feels they are expendable.
my point is'nt that guys like orton are "franchise" players but when you start to include the flacco's and the sanchez' of the league ....stats must apply and you then have to apply the same logic to guys like orton etc...

dogfish
05-03-2010, 10:34 PM
just in case you guys forgot. . .



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KyleOrtonArmySoldier#128
05-03-2010, 10:56 PM
Certainly, an unproven rookie who hasn't even played preseason yet nor won a starting job is NOT a franchise quarterback, just a development prospect. We'll see if he develops into a franchise quarterback but right now he's just another rookie in the offseason.

Northman
05-03-2010, 11:39 PM
and i repeat...the term is being watered down to almost an insignificant status if we start to include rookies who had dismal stats but the team managed to reach the playoffs.
or include "one hit wonders"

No its not. I take in a lot of considerations. How he played, what he accomplished in that time period and what i believe to be the ceiling of said player. Right now, its easy to see that the ceiling is significantly higher than what Orton demonstrates.


it takes many years to attain what i believe is a "franchise qb" status
guys like peyton manning ,bret favre,john elway etc... are considered
i dont include even guys like mcnabb who have been to 5 nfccg.because as we have just seen their team feels they are expendable.

McNabb is a franchise QB, the fact that Philly never wanted him from the start does not exclude him from that. Donovan is such a rare case where the guy was not even wanted on draft day from the fans tells me there is a problem with the fans, not the player.


my point is'nt that guys like orton are "franchise" players but when you start to include the flacco's and the sanchez' of the league ....stats must apply and you then have to apply the same logic to guys like orton etc...

Again. Ceiling. Orton is maxed out. The other players have already accomplished more than Kyle at this point in their careers. Naturally things could change but we are talking about this point in time, not a crystal ball future.

Lonestar
05-04-2010, 01:39 AM
For me:

Potential Franchise QB's

Matt Stafford—Detroit Lions

Brady Quinn—Denver Broncos

Josh Freeman—Tampa Bay Buccaneers

Vince Young—Tennessee Titans

Matt Leinart—Arizona Cardinals

Jay Cutler—Chicago Bears

Matt Schaub—Houston Texans


Franchise QB's

Mark Sanchez—New York Jets

Carson Palmer—Cincinnati Bengals

Joe Flacco—Baltimore Ravens

Drew Brees—New Orleans Saints

Phillip Rivers—San Diego Chargers

Tom Brady—New England Patriots

Eli Manning—New York Giants

Peyton Manning—Indianapolis Colts

Aaron Rodgers—Green Bay Packers

Tony Romo—Dallas Cowboys

Donovan McNabb—Washington Redskins

Ben Roethlisberger—Pittsburgh Steelers


I note that a few on the list are nearly at the end their FQB cycle does that still mean they are FQB's.

IS Donovan THE FQB for the skins or just a rental till one arrives .

FWIW I hardly think ONE good year in the NFL qualifies flacco and sanchez as REAL FQB's.

Just some food for thought

broncoman
05-04-2010, 03:39 AM
I guess my standards are a bit too high.I'd consider Brees,Rivers,Brady,P Manning,Rogers,Romo,Mcnabb and Roethlisberger as FQB's.I really wrestled with putting Rivers,Romo and Rogers in this catagory as I really think championships are a big part of the equation but I couldn't leave Mcnabb off the list no matter how I looked at it so I included them.

Sanchez,Flacco,Cutler,Young,Schaub,E Manning and Ryan have legitimate shots I think.Eli could go either way but I think the Giants won their SB with Eli kind of along for the ride.He was very good in that game but I dont think Defenses cower in fear of Eli.

GGMoogly
05-04-2010, 04:03 AM
Again I ask, with two minutes left, what QB scares you?

Elevation inc
05-04-2010, 05:30 AM
For me:

Potential Franchise QB's

Matt Stafford—Detroit Lions

Brady Quinn—Denver Broncos

Josh Freeman—Tampa Bay Buccaneers

Vince Young—Tennessee Titans

Matt Leinart—Arizona Cardinals

Jay Cutler—Chicago Bears

Matt Schaub—Houston Texans


Franchise QB's

Mark Sanchez—New York Jets

Carson Palmer—Cincinnati Bengals

Joe Flacco—Baltimore Ravens

Drew Brees—New Orleans Saints

Phillip Rivers—San Diego Chargers

Tom Brady—New England Patriots

Eli Manning—New York Giants

Peyton Manning—Indianapolis Colts

Aaron Rodgers—Green Bay Packers

Tony Romo—Dallas Cowboys

Donovan McNabb—Washington Redskins

Ben Roethlisberger—Pittsburgh Steelers



I dont get this....dude was horrible as a QB last year but he is a proven franchise QB???

he threw 12 TD's to 20 Int's, only threw for 2444 yds, fumbled 10 times lost 3 of them, was sacked 26 times, and had a rating of 63.....

dude rode the coat tails of a awsome Defense, and running game.....he literally was a bust last year.....he got to play in the playoffs not becasue of his ability but because the team carried him.....

MARK SANCHEZ SUCKS AND BAD!!! :lol:

xzn
05-04-2010, 07:41 AM
Here's a write up from the bleacher report, and it's pretty well rounded (untill they start making lists)
http://bleacherreport.com/articles/227222-what-is-a-franchise-quarterback-exactly

I'd say one thing that make a "Franchise" QB is (same with most other positions) the perception that the franchise (owner/HC/GM/fans) are happy with their guy, and feel no need to upgrade. or make a change anytime soon.

Even if they're not winning any lombardy's yet, if the QB in question fulfills the above requirement, then HE is a "franchise" QB.
IMHO.

Thanks for posting the article, I'm glad you did. That said, I don't know that I've ever read a "published" article that had such a lack of minimal grammar.

Also, I agree with you, SoCal, that the lists the author came up with leave one scratching the proverbial head.

Tned
05-04-2010, 07:44 AM
Again I ask, with two minutes left, what QB scares you?

Brady, Manning, Big Ben and I hate to say it, Rivers. Palmer in theory, but not in practice of late (injuries and team around him).

SoCalImport
05-04-2010, 09:45 AM
Isn't what defines a "Franchise QB" what he means to his respective franchise?

The way i see it, what other teams/fans think of the player means not much/nothing at all. It's the value and hopes that the QBs fans and organization place on him that makes him "franchise".
Stats are somewhat of a given in that scenario. But ultimately it's the NOW (worth to the team) not the past that makes a Franchise QB.

T.K.O.
05-04-2010, 09:57 AM
Again. Ceiling. Orton is maxed out. The other players have already accomplished more than Kyle at this point in their careers. Naturally things could change but we are talking about this point in time, not a crystal ball future.

so on one hand you say it's about "ceilings and potential"
and then you say your not using a crystal ball?
which is it.....
you have no more idea about what the future holds for sanchez and flacco than you do orton.
and as far as who played the position of qb better last year i would say the 3 were in a dead heat with the edge going to flacco and orton.
give the broncos the #1 rushhing attack and defense last year and i promise orton would have gotten us to the playoffs (without playing teams resting their starters):salute:
but again my point is none of the above have proven to be "franchise qb's NONE !

Northman
05-04-2010, 10:54 AM
FWIW I hardly think ONE good year in the NFL qualifies flacco and sanchez as REAL FQB's.

Just some food for thought

Normally i would agree with you as its a valid case. However, at this given time do you think those respectitive organizations think they are the future or just some travelman going through? I would think that NY and Bmore believe in those QB's enough to classify them as their future franchise QB's. It could all change within a year or maybe 2-3 years but right now its hard to bet against those guys since they are young but have played exceptionally well in the regular and post season games.

Northman
05-04-2010, 10:55 AM
so on one hand you say it's about "ceilings and potential"
and then you say your not using a crystal ball?
which is it.....
you have no more idea about what the future holds for sanchez and flacco than you do orton.
and as far as who played the position of qb better last year i would say the 3 were in a dead heat with the edge going to flacco and orton.
give the broncos the #1 rushhing attack and defense last year and i promise orton would have gotten us to the playoffs (without playing teams resting their starters):salute:
but again my point is none of the above have proven to be "franchise qb's NONE !

And thats your opinion just like its mine. I disagree with you.

Northman
05-04-2010, 10:56 AM
I guess my standards are a bit too high.I'd consider Brees,Rivers,Brady,P Manning,Rogers,Romo,Mcnabb and Roethlisberger as FQB's.I really wrestled with putting Rivers,Romo and Rogers in this catagory as I really think championships are a big part of the equation but I couldn't leave Mcnabb off the list no matter how I looked at it so I included them.



Although it may play a part i simply cannot put Trent Dilfer and Brad Johnson on the franchise QB list.

Northman
05-04-2010, 10:58 AM
I dont get this....dude was horrible as a QB last year but he is a proven franchise QB???

he threw 12 TD's to 20 Int's, only threw for 2444 yds, fumbled 10 times lost 3 of them, was sacked 26 times, and had a rating of 63.....

dude rode the coat tails of a awsome Defense, and running game.....he literally was a bust last year.....he got to play in the playoffs not becasue of his ability but because the team carried him.....

MARK SANCHEZ SUCKS AND BAD!!! :lol:

It takes a "team" to succeed. Every player plays their part and considering it was his rookie year are your really going to be that naive on his stats? How can i even possibly take you seriously here? :lol:

T.K.O.
05-04-2010, 10:59 AM
Although it may play a part i simply cannot put Trent Dilfer and Brad Johnson on the franchise QB list.

both played better than sanchez when they won :confused:

Northman
05-04-2010, 11:01 AM
both played better than sanchez when they won :confused:

Were they rookies? :lol:

Lonestar
05-04-2010, 11:14 AM
Normally i would agree with you as its a valid case. However, at this given time do you think those respectitive organizations think they are the future or just some travelman going through? I would think that NY and Bmore believe in those QB's enough to classify them as their future franchise QB's. It could all change within a year or maybe 2-3 years but right now its hard to bet against those guys since they are young but have played exceptionally well in the regular and post season games.


In the hope and wait portion PERHAPS but IN Sanchez case he had a solid team around him and while he did not stink I think almost any QB could have done as good if not better.

Flacco had a great year as a rookie then we saw the sophomore slump so top speak

There is Perceived FQB and actual FQB and I do not think these two rate the actual tag YET.

We have a FQB in Tebow if that former is the case. Drafting a QB early and spend a ton of money on him doth not make a FQB only a bunch of fans that want him to be.

Remember there have been a bunch of FQB (first round heartbreaks) that did not work out Leaf, George come to mind.

Northman
05-04-2010, 11:26 AM
In the hope and wait portion PERHAPS but IN Sanchez case he had a solid team around him and while he did not stink I think almost any QB could have done as good if not better.

Not really. Just one year before even Favre could not get them to the playoffs.


Flacco had a great year as a rookie then we saw the sophomore slump so top speak

True, he did slump but not much to throw too either.


We have a FQB in Tebow if that former is the case. Drafting a QB early and spend a ton of money on him doth not make a FQB only a bunch of fans that want him to be.

Absolutely not, he has done nothing on the field whatsoever at this point. I certainly dont perceive Tebow as a FQB.


Remember there have been a bunch of FQB (first round heartbreaks) that did not work out Leaf, George come to mind.

Sure, but again im talking about this point in time. Ive already said things can change but at this present moment you cant tell me that those organizations are ready to move on without those QB's at the helm. Someone else mentioned it a few posts ago that its dependent on how the organizations look at those players. Tebow wouldnt fit the bill because he hasnt done anything notable to justify the tag. But sure, if Flacco and Sanchez tank than that tag would most certainly fall off but we talking about the present, not the future.

T.K.O.
05-04-2010, 11:41 AM
flacco had 3 picks and 0 td's in the widcard game with a passer rating of 39.4
if we are talking about the "present" he has no business being called a franchise qb.
a true franchise player performs best under pressure and when the season is on the line.
sanchez showed signs of having that ability but again just "signs"
that's also why i dont feel cutler has even come remotely close to the label.

TXBRONC
05-04-2010, 11:45 AM
both played better than sanchez when they won :confused:

Not really. Dilfer's numbers were pedestrian the year he got his ring and that being kind. Johnson's number were better overall but he still threw 21 picks the year he got his ring. The main reason those two guys have rings is because both were supported by fantastic defenses and solid special teams.

Northman
05-04-2010, 11:51 AM
flacco had 3 picks and 0 td's in the widcard game with a passer rating of 39.4
if we are talking about the "present" he has no business being called a franchise qb.
a true franchise player performs best under pressure and when the season is on the line.
sanchez showed signs of having that ability but again just "signs"
that's also why i dont feel cutler has even come remotely close to the label.

Does he have room to grow? Absolutely. But has he shown the leadership ability to help guide his team to the playoffs his first two seasons? Absolutely. Jay on the other hand has failed to show that which is why he is on the bubble for me. But like i said, you have your opinion and i have mine. Right now i have them as franchise QB's.

T.K.O.
05-04-2010, 11:52 AM
Not really. Dilfer's numbers were pedestrian the year he got his ring and that being kind. Johnson's number were better overall but he still threw 21 picks the year he got his ring. The main reason those two guys have rings is because both were supported by fantastic defenses and solid special teams.

exactly....and the same way sanchez even made the playoffs....
thanks for helping to make my point;)

Northman
05-04-2010, 11:53 AM
exactly....and the same way sanchez even made the playoffs....
thanks for helping to make my point;)

Again, were they rookies?

TXBRONC
05-04-2010, 11:58 AM
exactly....and the same way sanchez even made the playoffs....
thanks for helping to make my point;)

You said Johnson and Dilfer played better than Sanchez which isn't true. So how is that making your point? :confused:

T.K.O.
05-04-2010, 11:58 AM
Again, were they rookies?

so being a rookie gives you a "free pass" to being a franchise qb?
then stafford definately goes higher on the list than sanchez.
put sanchez on the lions and would he be a franchise qb?with the same #'s?
i dont think so.
so basically if you have a decent( and i use the term loosely in the case of sanchez because if orton had thrown 12 tds and 20 picks you would be calling for his head) year on a team with tons of talent...poof
your a franchise qb

T.K.O.
05-04-2010, 12:01 PM
You said Johnson and Dilfer played better than Sanchez which isn't true. So how is that making your point? :confused:

the qb play in all 3 scenario's had little to do with the success of the teams.
my point is that none of the 3 should be considered "franchise qb's....and are'nt by most

TXBRONC
05-04-2010, 02:15 PM
the qb play in all 3 scenario's had little to do with the success of the teams.
my point is that none of the 3 should be considered "franchise qb's....and are'nt by most

That's your opinion and that's fine but I think you're wrong. There have been a lot ideas about what a franchise quarterback is but there certain things that have to go into being a franchise quarterback.

1.) Generally it's a guy that has been drafted in the first round. Although that's not always case they can be found in later rounds or brought in through trade, free agency and so forth.

2.) He starting that doesn't mean he wont struggle because many times they do.

3.) The really smart coaches tweak their offensive systems to fit their quarterbacks strengths and try to find the right personnel to compliment their quarterback.

4.) A franchise quarterback is one that you feel you always have chance to win if he's starting. It doesn't mean he'll put eye popping stats but confident you're never out a game that he starts.

5.) This probably should have been first on the list, but organization believes he's the cornerstone who will hopefully lead them to championship. That's why they do the other things that I have listed above.

So if you're going say this doesn't apply to Sanchez, Flacco, and Ryan and also the veterans that have been mentioned then I think you're mistake.

dogfish
05-04-2010, 02:45 PM
http://img248.imageshack.us/img248/3156/johnelwayrunning.jpg (http://img248.imageshack.us/i/johnelwayrunning.jpg/)

Uploaded with ImageShack.us (http://imageshack.us)



just trying to help out. . .

TXBRONC
05-04-2010, 03:12 PM
http://img248.imageshack.us/img248/3156/johnelwayrunning.jpg (http://img248.imageshack.us/i/johnelwayrunning.jpg/)

Uploaded with ImageShack.us (http://imageshack.us)



just trying to help out. . .

And he makes my point perfectly. :beer: :salute:

T.K.O.
05-04-2010, 04:03 PM
http://img248.imageshack.us/img248/3156/johnelwayrunning.jpg (http://img248.imageshack.us/i/johnelwayrunning.jpg/)

Uploaded with ImageShack.us (http://imageshack.us)



just trying to help out. . .

makes my point perfectly....:beer:

Medford Bronco
05-04-2010, 04:25 PM
How about not a franchise QB or QB with good stats but always got hurt and slipped on his dog at times lol

http://s1.hubimg.com/u/574812_f260.jpg

Medford Bronco
05-04-2010, 04:36 PM
One of the most underrated Qbs of all time. way better than Terry I throw it up for grabs and have Lynn Swan and Stallworth rescue me.

http://images.art.com/images/-/Roger-Staubach--C10106056.jpeg

T.K.O.
05-04-2010, 05:07 PM
That's your opinion and that's fine but I think you're wrong. There have been a lot ideas about what a franchise quarterback is but there certain things that have to go into being a franchise quarterback.

1.) Generally it's a guy that has been drafted in the first round. Although that's not always case they can be found in later rounds or brought in through trade, free agency and so forth.

2.) He starting that doesn't mean he wont struggle because many times they do.

3.) The really smart coaches tweak their offensive systems to fit their quarterbacks strengths and try to find the right personnel to compliment their quarterback.

4.) A franchise quarterback is one that you feel you always have chance to win if he's starting. It doesn't mean he'll put eye popping stats but confident you're never out a game that he starts.

5.) This probably should have been first on the list, but organization believes he's the cornerstone who will hopefully lead them to championship. That's why they do the other things that I have listed above.

So if you're going say this doesn't apply to Sanchez, Flacco, and Ryan and also the veterans that have been mentioned then I think you're mistake.

oh....i see now.....like this guy ?

http://thm-a01.yimg.com/nimage/0fe370d82d2966e4

;)

TXBRONC
05-04-2010, 05:25 PM
oh....i see now.....like this guy ?

http://thm-a01.yimg.com/nimage/0fe370d82d2966e4

;)

Actually no you don't see. I never said they couldn't fail and that circumstances couldn't change. Besides that does he meet the criteria of being starter? Nope.

T.K.O.
05-04-2010, 05:37 PM
he was a starter longer than sanchez and yes the raiders put their faith in him as the future of the team....so FRANCHISE !:elefant:

Northman
05-04-2010, 05:59 PM
he was a starter longer than sanchez and yes the raiders put their faith in him as the future of the team....so FRANCHISE !:elefant:

When did Doughboy take Oakland to the playoffs? :confused:

T.K.O.
05-04-2010, 06:14 PM
When did Doughboy take Oakland to the playoffs? :confused:

when did cutler take any team to the playoffs.....is the criteria evolving??

Northman
05-04-2010, 06:21 PM
when did cutler take any team to the playoffs.....is the criteria evolving??

When did i say Cutler was a franchise QB? :lol:

T.K.O.
05-04-2010, 06:26 PM
When did i say Cutler was a franchise QB? :lol:

you have him on the potential list....that pretty much includes all active qb's then i guess.
you win ! russell and cutler and sanchez are all potential franchise qb's:laugh:
it's hard to be wrong when you could qualify almost any qb as potential franchise players.....and again that would have to include a guy like orton who had 21 td's 12 int's and over 3800 yards in his first year with the team and scheme.
so we are back to square one.....my theory is just as good as yours when it comes to a "definition" of a franchise qb....but sanchez,ryan,flacco and cutler for that matter have a loooooooong way to go before i would buy into the "tag on them:salute:

Northman
05-04-2010, 06:27 PM
you have him on the potential list....that pretty much includes all active qb's then i guess.
you win ! russell and cutler and sanchez are all potential franchise qb's:laugh:
it's hard to be wrong when you could qualify almost any qb as potential franchise players.....and again that would have to include a guy like orton who had 21 td's 12 int's and over 3800 yards in his first year with the team and scheme.
so we are back to square one.....my theory is just as good as yours when it comes to a "definition" of a franchise qb....but sanchez,ryan,flacco and cutler for that matter have a loooooooong way to go before i would buy into the "tag on them:salute:

As does Tebow but good debate. :beer:

turftoad
05-04-2010, 06:40 PM
when did cutler take any team to the playoffs.....is the criteria evolving??

Comparing Russell to Cutler? Thats not realistic.

T.K.O.
05-04-2010, 07:04 PM
Comparing Russell to Cutler? Thats not realistic.

neither has made the playoffs...so its fair.
but you missed the debate and i'm spent;):laugh:

TXBRONC
05-04-2010, 07:41 PM
neither has made the playoffs...so its fair.
but you missed the debate and i'm spent;):laugh:

Whose been able to continue starting? Cutler has as I have that is one of the criteria mentioned.

honz
05-04-2010, 08:06 PM
From Webster's Dictionary:

Franchise QB - Timothy Tebow.

T.K.O.
05-04-2010, 08:46 PM
Whose been able to continue starting? Cutler has as I that is one of the criteria mentioned.

if you give up a bounty of picks....even a guy who throws 26 int's and a 7-9 season gets a pass!:laugh:

GGMoogly
05-04-2010, 08:59 PM
How many franchise QBs can dance on the head of a pin? :confused:

TXBRONC
05-04-2010, 10:16 PM
if you give up a bounty of picks....even a guy who throws 26 int's and a 7-9 season gets a pass!:laugh:

This is best answer you can come up with? :lol:

It's more ridiculous to take the stats of a journeyman quarterback and say this show he should qualifies him to be considered a franchise quarterback. :lol:

Even franchise quarterbacks can struggle I did say that earlier. :coffee:

Bosco
05-05-2010, 04:13 AM
Current franchise quarterbacks

Ben Roethlisberger
Peyton Manning
Tom Brady
Philip Rivers
Aaron Rodgers
Drew Brees
Donovan McNabb

Common denominators: Most have rings. All of them except Rodgers and Rivers have been to Super Bowls. Have histories of stepping up their play in clutch and/or playoff situations. For each of their respective teams, upgrades are theoretically impossible unless you take another quarterback who is already on the list.

Elevation inc
05-05-2010, 04:36 AM
It takes a "team" to succeed. Every player plays their part and considering it was his rookie year are your really going to be that naive on his stats? How can i even possibly take you seriously here? :lol:

joe flacco, Matt ryan and even stafford in detroit showed there worth as 1st rd Qb's....sanchez did not.....he cost his team a couple games last year.....

maybe im biased but he sucks as a QB......rookie or not.....

sneakers
05-05-2010, 04:59 AM
When a person says a NFL teams name, and the first thing to pop up in everyone's mind is the quarterback of that team, that is a franchise quaterback.

For example: Colts

Anyone but Payton manning pop in your head?