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omac
05-06-2008, 11:22 PM
(Poll above)

Will Denver make the playoffs?

Here's how I think it will go, with contenders being those that might have a shot at the playoffs .....

AFC East Champs: Patriots. Contenders: Bills
AFC North Champs: Steelers. Contenders: Browns, Ravens
AFC South Champs: Colts. Contenders: Jaguars, Texans
AFC West Champs: Chargers. Contenders: Broncos

Bills: 8-8: Seahawks(L), Jaguars(L), Raiders(W), Rams(W), Cardinals(L), Chargers(L), Dolphins(W), Jets(W), Pats(L), Browns(L), Chiefs(W), 49ers(W), Dolphins(W), Jets(W), Denver(L), Pats(L)

Browns: 8-8: Cowboys(L), Steelers(L), Ravens(L), Bengals(W), Giants(L), Redskins(W), Jaguars(L), Ravens(W), Broncos(L), Bills(W), Texans(L), Colts(L), Titans(W), Eagles(W), Bengals(W), Steelers(W)

Ravens: 7-9: Bengals(W), Texans(L), Browns(W), Steelers(L), Titans(W), Dolphins(W), Colts(L), Raiders(W), Browns(L), Giants(L), Eagles(W), Bengals(L), Redskins(L), Steelers(W), Cowboys(L), Jaguars(W)

Jaguars: 9-7: Titans(W), Bills(W), Colts(L), Texans(W), Steelers(L), Broncos(W), Browns(W), Bengals(W), Lions(W), Titans(W), Vikings(L), Texans(L), Bears(W), Packers(L), Colts(L), Ravens(L)

Texans: 10-6: Steelers(L), Ravens(W), Titans(W), Jaguars(L), Colts(L), Dolphins(W), Lions(W), Vikings(L), Bengals(W), Colts(L), Browns(W), Jaguars(W), Packers(W), Titans(W), Raiders(W), Bears(W)

Broncos: 10-6: Raiders(W), Chargers(L), Saints(W), Chiefs(W), Buccaneers(L), Jaguars(L), Pats(L), Dolphins(W), Browns(W), Falcons(W), Raiders(W), Jets(W), Chiefs(W), Panthers(L), Bills(W), Chargers(L)

Here's a scenario where I can see Denver and Houston taking the 2 wildcard spots. I tried to be objective (hehehe), but reasonable. I had Denver losing all of their games against the Chargers, Pats, Bucs, Jaguars, & Panthers.

With Houston, it's a tough division; I had the Colts owning them, the Jags splitting with them, and them dominating the Titans, who I don't think will be very good this season. I had them losing to the Vikings, whom I think will be great this season, and having the game to beat the Packers ... this season, their defensive line talent should shine, and I'm thinking they'll have Schaub and Johnson the whole season, and Slaton and Brown should be an upgrade over what they had at RB, considering Green was never really healthy.

Stargazer
05-06-2008, 11:28 PM
As of right now I would say no. Need training camp, preseason, and a game or two in the regular season to give a realistic answer.

But, if I was a betting man and I had to make the bet today, the answer is a definite no.

omac
05-06-2008, 11:30 PM
As of right now I would say no. Need training camp, preseason, and a game or two in the regular season to give a realistic answer.

But, if I was a betting man and I had to make the bet today, the answer is a definite no.

So who'd take the 2 wildcard spots?

Requiem / The Dagda
05-06-2008, 11:30 PM
Absolutely not.

honz
05-06-2008, 11:31 PM
The Bronco fan in me says yes, but the realist in me says that it is going to be tough...and probably not.

dogfish
05-06-2008, 11:40 PM
i don't think so. . . as i've said before, we sucked last year (it could have been even worse with a raw kicker), and i'm not convinced we've improved much. . . you never know, though-- that's kinda how i felt in '05, too. . . :lol:



right now i think new england, indy, jacksonville, pittsburgh, cleveland and san diego are all better than us, and probably houston as well. . . tennessee and buffalo are debatable. . . a lot can change between now and september, let alone january, but i think an awful lot will have to fall just right for us if we're going to have a chance to be competitive-- including avoiding the bad luck with injuries and whatnot we've had the past few years. . .

WARHORSE
05-06-2008, 11:51 PM
Of course we are. Any bets?

A month of sig and avy rights.


I'll take on all comers.

dogfish
05-06-2008, 11:56 PM
Of course we are. Any bets?

A month of sig and avy rights.


I'll take on all comers.

no way man, bad bet. . . if you lose, you lose, and if you win it means the broncos don't make the playoffs, so you still lose. . . :lol:

Medford Bronco
05-07-2008, 12:00 AM
I say we have the look of a 8-8 or 9-7 team that will miss the last wild card
spot.

Div winners.....NE, Jax, Pitt, SD
WC...Indy and Cleveland

Tennessee and Houston making a run with us missing out by a game or 2.

If we dont fix our run defense with many many holes. It will be a lot of 34-31 type games IMO

I have been wrong a lot before so we could go 11-5..who knows.

omac
05-07-2008, 12:34 AM
I say we have the look of a 8-8 or 9-7 team that will miss the last wild card
spot.

Div winners.....NE, Jax, Pitt, SD
WC...Indy and Cleveland

Tennessee and Houston making a run with us missing out by a game or 2.

If we dont fix our run defense with many many holes. It will be a lot of 34-31 type games IMO

I have been wrong a lot before so we could go 11-5..who knows.

Wow, you see the Jaguars as the div champs, not the Colts? Bold prediction. :cheers:

The Browns have a really tough schedule this season, and a sub-par defense last season. I don't see them equaling their record last season.

broncosfanscott
05-07-2008, 01:23 AM
The Bronco fan in me says yes, but the realist in me says that it is going to be tough...and probably not.

I am the same way. Until I see some improvement from last year on the run-defense and redzone TDs, I don't see it. Like Stargazer says, I need to see some play first.

Cugel
05-07-2008, 01:25 AM
I would say that the Jaguars will be better than 9-7. They are a very physical team and on the rise in the AFC. This could be the year they supplant the Colts and win the division title. If they do, the Colts will be one of the wild-cards.

As of now, I'll give Denver the other wild-card. Looking at that schedule you have to think it's a pretty easy schedule. Virtually all those teams, with the exception of the Chargers and Patriots, the Broncos could easily win.

That means they start with 3 losses (maybe -- unless they can beat the Chargers at home or something).

Then factor in the improved defense from a year ago.

1. Bate's scheme didn't fit the personnel, there was massive turnover by mid-season with 1/2 the defensive tackles being cut by week 8. This year they are better, more experience and using a scheme that fits the players better. I expect major improvement on defense. They won't be as good as the Chargers say, but still any improvement is a help.

With DeWayne Robertson in the middle it won't be as easy to run on the Broncos as last year. That's a big plus.

Dumervil, Moss, Crowder and Thomas all should be improved this year with more experience. We don't know how good the latter three will be, but they are bound to be better than last season when they were rookies.

We don't know how well the LBs will play, but Ian Gold had a disappointing season, D.J. Williams was learning a new position and struggling at times, and Nate Webster was a scrub, so it could hardly be worse.

Lynch is a year older but he can't get much slower. They brought in a couple of safeties who will be a help, but nothing special. With better DL play, Champ and Bly won't get exposed as much in single coverage. Foxworth and Paymah should be adequate as backup CBs.

So, overall the defense is bound to improve.

Offense:

1. Cutler is entering his third year and his diabetes will be treated. He should be more consistent this season.

2. OL -- With Hamilton back and the addition of Ryan Clady, this unit should be improved over last season. Shanahan pointed out that Matt Lepsis didn't have a good year last year, so even though Clady is a rookie he could be better than that. We'll see. But, the Broncos have decent if not great players all over the OL now, with Montrae Holland getting more experience, Nalen, Chris Kuper, etc. They should benefit from more experience playing together.

Frankly, this is the biggest question mark on the team right now. Will the OL come together and be good, or struggle and get Cutler injured? This will largely determine whether the Broncos are a playoff contender. They can't struggle in the red-zone like last year and still get to the playoffs.

3. WRs. Unless Brandon Marshall's injury hampers him this year the Broncos should be better at WR this season than last. Javon was injured and ineffective most of the year, so a healthy Jackson is bound to be better than that. Royal might make a decent backup, and if not Colbert can be used in spot duty if too much isn't expected of him.

4. RBs -- Henry is injury free and doesn't have any court cases hanging over him. Torain is a nice pickup as a change of pace back and could emerge as the #2 back. Andre Hall and Selvin Young are decent backups as long as neither is expected to carry the load.

Overall, the RBs are better this year than last, when the Broncos didn't know that they had any decent backups to Henry. If he's injured again they could probably get by with RB by committee (Torain, Young, Hall).

5. TEs -- With better OL play, Daniel Graham will get more chances to catch passes, which he does well. We didn't see it last season because he had to stay in to prevent Cutler from being killed on every play. Tony Sheffler has done nothing much, but he did improve late last season and could become a nice weapon in 2 TE sets, which Denver likes to use a lot.

Overall, the team is improved in almost every area and they have what should be a weak schedule. That alone would be worth 2 or 3 games to a decent team.

Whether the Broncos are REALLY improved rather than merely improved on paper remains to be seen. However, given the really bad performance of both the OL and DL last season, it's hard to imagine they would be worse!

The downside risk is that the Broncos were very lucky to win 7 games. At least 3 of those games they could/should have lost -- the Buffalo last second FG, the Raiders game where the Raiders actually had the game-winning FG before Shanahan's Time-out trick, the overtime win against the Vikings, etc.

That team could easily have been 4-12 and probably without a couple of lucky breaks would have been. This years' team might not be so lucky.

So, they might be much improved and still finish 8-8 or something. We'll see. :coffee:

topscribe
05-07-2008, 02:20 AM
We wouldn't be judging this season, based on last, would we? Can anyone say
this is even the same team we saw last year? Let's take a look:

QB: Cutler. Yep, the same, although we'll have a stronger, more experienced Cutler.

RB: All are healthy. New: Torain and (effectively) Henry. Improved.

FB: New: Hillis is an upgrade.

WR: Assuming Marshall recovers, vastly improved with an honest #2. New: Jackson, Colbert, Parker, Fast Eddie.

TE: Scheffler is finally 100%, and he is lethal, and Graham is still a beast. Improved.

OL: Nails and Hamilton back, Clady and Wiegemann added, Kuper and Pears with another year's experience. Harris healthy. Improved.

DL: Moss and Ekuban healthy, Crowder, Dumervil, and Thomas with another year's experience. New: Robertson and Powell. Improved.

LB: Koutouvides and Boss added, D.J. back where he belongs, Webster and Winborn now valuable backups. Improved.

CB: Still the best.

S: Lynch is back, McCree is an upgrade at the other spot. New: McCree and Manuel.

Defensive coach has changed, and defense has shed Bates' disastrous scheme of last year.

Offensive coach is gone, and it is Shanny's offense again.

Add to that a weaker schedule.

The team may struggle a bit early while it gels, but will improve steadily
throughout the season. A couple early losses will end in a 10-6 season and
a wildcard.

-----

ssgtwc
05-07-2008, 05:43 AM
I like topscribe's look at the team we are seeing now....but I just can't make a true prediction until I see a few games played.

TXBRONC
05-07-2008, 05:51 AM
Right now I'm not sure that they will, but I'm not one to write off a entire season before it has begun.

omac
05-07-2008, 06:37 AM
Right now I'm not sure that they will, but I'm not one to write off a entire season before it has begun.

Better than me, I'm likely to keep thinking superbowl before the season's even begun. :D

Tned
05-07-2008, 06:57 AM
I vote yes, but there are many questions. The biggest being Marshall and Cutler. Will Cutler be able to manage his diabetes properly this year, will Marshall come back healthy.

I think if those two pieces are in place and healthy, even if Clady can't win the LT job, the offense has a chance to produce, if the coaching staff sticks to an offensive game plan the O-line can handle. I am not sure, at this point, what that game plan is, but if the O-line is getting overmatched like the last two years, you just can't keep calling the same plays.

On defense, I think we will see a big rebound, so I think there is a solid chance we will be at worst a wild card contender, but we stiill have enough question marks that it is far from a given the team will be in the playoffs.

TXBRONC
05-07-2008, 07:23 AM
Better than me, I'm likely to keep thinking superbowl before the season's even begun. :D

There's nothing wrong with that. :beer:

Mike
05-07-2008, 07:26 AM
"Playoffs? Don't talk about playoffs. Are you kidding me? Playoffs? I just hope we can win a game, another game."

Brand
05-07-2008, 08:55 AM
I voted "yes". Why not?

Poindexter
05-07-2008, 09:12 AM
I think we may. A lot of people have already predicted on speculation the entire outcome of next season. I think it remains to be seen.

Some of the games people have slated us to lose are more manageable than people give the Broncos credit for.

pnbronco
05-07-2008, 09:46 AM
As of today I will say no. There are so many question marks up in the air. I really hope all our guys come back healthy and the mental pain of last year loosing 2 players has healed. I would so like to be surprised and see a team running on all cylinders again.

Davii
05-07-2008, 09:58 AM
"Playoffs? Don't talk about playoffs. Are you kidding me? Playoffs? I just hope we can win a game, another game."

Used to be the best coach quote ever, I think it now belongs to "They are who we thought they were!"

underrated29
05-07-2008, 10:31 AM
cugel nice to see ya hear, and top i like your analysis as well. I agree with both and dont have much to add as you both did a good job of explaining why we will make the playoffs....

But think of it this way. Last year how many redzone trips did we make and end up with 0 or 3 pts?? I would say what, 80%, maybe 75%.

Next question, how many points did we lose by to most teams? (aside from the chargers).

GB-7 in OT, Colts 14? in a letdown, raiders-?? 10 maybe? lions- ugh.??

ok so i cant remember and dont feel like looking it up. But had we been able to punch the ball in the endzone 2x more instead of FG that most likely would have changed the games outcome...

By either us haveing more points and winning, or the other team not running the ball on us like crazy, because they would be down by so many and need to pass.


With a new/better oline, healthy travis and a hard nose FB I dont see how we cant punch the ball in the endzone. Also having a legit #2 and #3 wr will also open up the run some.

We will score a lot more points this year, and it will afford us imo at least 4-5 wins that we missed out on last year.

Without looking at the schedule id say 10-6 for sure and a wildcard!

lex
05-07-2008, 10:50 AM
It really comes down to two things:
1. Jay Cutler
2. How our young guys on the DLine progress

It seems like we're more focused on being a passing team. Im not saying thats bad but its not like we really upgraded in the running game. So the offense seems to be placed more at Jay's feet. And either Thomas, Crowder, Moss, Dumervil, and Robertson are going to get it done or they arent. Its on them now.

broncosaurus
05-07-2008, 11:34 AM
I hope so, but I don't think so. No such thing as an easy schedule in the NFL, and though I think Denver will be improved, I think the Jags and the Browns are both much improved, and I see those two teams getting the wild card spots. The Titans, Texans, and Bills will also push for those spots, though I see them all falling just short, just like the Broncos. I see 8-8 or 9-7 for us this season.

topscribe
05-07-2008, 11:39 AM
It really comes down to two things:
1. Jay Cutler
2. How our young guys on the DLine progress

It seems like we're more focused on being a passing team. Im not saying thats bad but its not like we really upgraded in the running game. So the offense seems to be placed more at Jay's feet. And either Thomas, Crowder, Moss, Dumervil, and Robertson are going to get it done or they arent. Its on them now.

Well, you may have a point there (especially regarding the DL), but I see an
upgrade to the running game, mainly because of the return of Nalen and the
added experience of our very young guys on the OL . . . and their having
played together for a year.

I also like what I see in Hillis. Some real blocking from the FB position would
be dynamite.

-----

Ricky
05-07-2008, 12:07 PM
This year (just like every year at this time) I say the Broncos will go 19 and 0.

lex
05-07-2008, 12:22 PM
Well, you may have a point there (especially regarding the DL), but I see an
upgrade to the running game, mainly because of the return of Nalen and the
added experience of our very young guys on the OL . . . and their having
played together for a year.

I also like what I see in Hillis. Some real blocking from the FB position would
be dynamite.

-----

I think we'd be very fortunate if there wasnt a significant drop off in Nalens play. Hes of such an age. I also think we'd be fortunate if Hamilton lasts a season. Once you have concussion, they become much easier to get. And that doesnt bode well for an offensive linemen. Plus, our line has been getting rag dolled for a while as it is. I see age and injury with no significant upgrade other than perhaps Kuper. Clady might be ok but we chose Clady, the OT who was best equipped to counter the pass rush but not so much in the running game...according to many. If Kuper has to play guard again, we're relying on Harris or Pears at OT.

Ziggy
05-07-2008, 12:26 PM
I'll know after we spend a week with the Dallas Cowboys. They are an upper echelon team that is solid on the LOS on both sides of the ball, and let's face it. That's really where our problems were last year. We couldn't give Cutler time to throw the ball, couldn't open holes in the running game, and Shanny couldn't open up the playbook on offense. On defense, we couldn't stop the run or get to the QB, and our corners were hung out to dry yet again.

The week practicing and playing against Dallas in the preseason will tell us everything we need to know. Just watch the line of scrimmage. When these two teams play and practice, that's where I'll be watching.If we get blown off the ball again on both sides, it's another good draft pick next year. If we hold our own, it's playoff time again in Denver.

BroncoWave
05-07-2008, 12:29 PM
Right now I'm saying no. I almost always overestimate how Denver will do and win up disappointed at the end of the season. I figure this time I'll shoot low and hopefully be pleasantly surprised at the end of the season! :D

Colorado4Life
05-07-2008, 12:38 PM
We'll definitely make the playoffs and unlike the Avalanche, Rockies, and Nuggets we won't get swept.

pnbronco
05-07-2008, 12:57 PM
Right now I'm saying no. I almost always overestimate how Denver will do and win up disappointed at the end of the season. I figure this time I'll shoot low and hopefully be pleasantly surprised at the end of the season! :D

Me too Bailey. I would rather be pleasantly surprised. I think the Dallas workout will tell us a lot. I remember last year thinking, this doesn't look good and it wasn't.

Davii
05-07-2008, 12:58 PM
We'll definitely make the playoffs and unlike the Avalanche, Rockies, and Nuggets we won't get swept.

You do realize they don't play a series of games in the NFL playoffs?

topscribe
05-07-2008, 01:04 PM
You do realize they don't play a series of games in the NFL playoffs?

Well, I guess if we lose a game, we got swept. :D

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BroncoWave
05-07-2008, 01:05 PM
You do realize they don't play a series of games in the NFL playoffs?

I think he's implying that he thinks we will win a playoff game this season, and just using the other colorado teams getting swept for comparison.

topscribe
05-07-2008, 01:07 PM
Me too Bailey. I would rather be pleasantly surprised. I think the Dallas workout will tell us a lot. I remember last year thinking, this doesn't look good and it wasn't.

I don't think the Dallas workout will reveal much. The Broncos will still be
putting a team together at that point, with all the new faces. As I mentioned
previously, I believe they will be well into the season before the team really gels.

-----

dogfish
05-07-2008, 01:14 PM
I don't think the Dallas workout will reveal much. The Broncos will still be
putting a team together at that point, with all the new faces. As I mentioned
previously, I believe they will be well into the season before the team really gels.

-----

i don't know. . . i certainly don't think you can base TOO MUCH on the outcome of preseason games, but last year a few of us were very concerned about the run efense based on our preseason performance. . . everybody else pooh-poohed it-- the ol' "it's just preseason, it doesn't mean anything" routine-- but it turned out to be a glaring weakness that we really never got corrected entirely, and it pretty much ruined our season. . .


if teams are pushing us around in the trenches again, i for one will be very concerned, preseason or not. . .

topscribe
05-07-2008, 01:20 PM
i don't know. . . i certainly don't think you can base TOO MUCH on the outcome of preseason games, but last year a few of us were very concerned about the run efense based on our preseason performance. . . everybody else pooh-poohed it-- the ol' "it's just preseason, it doesn't mean anything" routine-- but it turned out to be a glaring weakness that we really never got corrected entirely, and it pretty much ruined our season. . .


if teams are pushing us around in the trenches again, i for one will be very concerned, preseason or not. . .

I'm just saying let's not panic over the results of the Dallas workouts, Dog.
I fully expect Denver to lose the scrimmage at the LOS because Dallas will
have been working together for a while now, whereas Robertson, Moss,
Ekuban, Nalen, Hamilton, Clady, and Kuper (possibly because of a new
position for him) will be adjusting to new guys working next to them. Throw
in such factors and the LBs behind them adjusting to them, and to each
other, and we just might have a disaster on our hands in the Dallas thing.

But that should not reflect on the season, IMO. It is a matter of gelling, is all.

IMHO.

-----

Ziggy
05-07-2008, 01:24 PM
I don't think the Dallas workout will reveal much. The Broncos will still be
putting a team together at that point, with all the new faces. As I mentioned
previously, I believe they will be well into the season before the team really gels.

-----

In the back of my mind I was hoping that logic would hold true last year. I used the same excuses then. But...we have a new D-coordinator and a new system.....but....we have so many new faces and they haven't had a chance to really work together yet. We got killed on the LOS by Dallas last year. It was a sign of things to come.

Talent is talent. Even though the lineman aren't familiar with a scheme, they can still hold thier own at the point of attack if they have what it takes to be good in the NFL. I'll give Clady a pass, since he's a rook playing in the 2nd hardest position in the offense. The rest of these guys have been there. Nalen, Hamilton, Holland, Kuper, Pears, and even Harris for a few games. In the defensive side of the ball, Thomas, Moss, Crowder, Robertson, Ekuban, Peterson, and the boys have all played. No free passes this year to anyone but rookies. That's just my opinion, and my mindset. You can evaluate talent in a new system with a new scheme and coordinator. That's why the NFL loves games like the senior bowl, North-south game, and those kinds of contests.

dogfish
05-07-2008, 01:37 PM
i agree, ziggy. . . i don't think top's wrong-- it usually does take the lines some time to build chemistry, especially a ZBS OL where guys are working a lot of combo blocks-- but there's never any guarantee. . . last season we talked about gelling all year long, and either it never did happen, or it did and the results didn't improve that much because the talent just wasn't there. . . i'm not going to panic if our line play is poor in the preseason, but i will absolutely be concerned about it. . .

underrated29
05-07-2008, 01:51 PM
Lex, i agree- but moreso i think it comes down to these two factors instead.

1. Scoring tds in the redzone

2. stopping the run.

If we do both of those, we are right back or close to our 13-3 season.

And what did we do in that season- well we stopped the run (4th in run defense?? I think.) and we scored tds in redzone ( 10 or 11th)???

Right now what were we? 31 in run d, and 28 in scoring?

we moved the ball fine, and all we need is 14 pts instead of 6- problem solved.

And defense is loaded with talent, all that need to come together is stopping that run- and everything else will work like its supposed too.

Mike
05-07-2008, 01:59 PM
Lex, i agree- but moreso i think it comes down to these two factors instead.

1. Scoring tds in the redzone

2. stopping the run.

If we do both of those, we are right back or close to our 13-3 season.

And what did we do in that season- well we stopped the run (4th in run defense?? I think.) and we scored tds in redzone ( 10 or 11th)???

Right now what were we? 31 in run d, and 28 in scoring?

we moved the ball fine, and all we need is 14 pts instead of 6- problem solved.

And defense is loaded with talent, all that need to come together is stopping that run- and everything else will work like its supposed too.

I have to think it is more complicated. You don't lose to the teams Denver lost to last year and how they lost to those teams and not have serious issues.

underrated29
05-07-2008, 02:13 PM
I have to think it is more complicated. You don't lose to the teams Denver lost to last year and how they lost to those teams and not have serious issues.


well no doubt, but in all fairness we lost 3/5 of our oline last year to injury. That will kill anyteam. How good do you think the colts,pats, or chargers would be with only 2 starters.

Look at the chefs, half their line retired and now they suck big time up front.

also our defense was horrible, players, scheme, etc. I am still very very worried about it, but with all the moves shanny made to the defense. ( 5 players in FA and another 2 in draft) along with experience and health from our younger guys from last year. I am sitting easier, knowing that if we stop the run, scheme or not the rest of the d should be able to handle anything else.

I am an optimist though.

Lonestar
05-07-2008, 02:24 PM
I see lots of question marks this year some carryovers from last year..

Mostly experience and getting to know each other..

The OLINE will have at least 4 guys playing next to someone new this year perhaps all five..

This is how I see this shake out
clady
Hamilton/Kuper
Nalen
Holland
Harris/Kuper

Hamilton is one head slap away from retirement.. Nalen how much gas does he have left or for that matter desire..

I'd rather see Licthensteiger in his spot learning the slot so we do not have to bite the bullet next year with newbies playing at OLG CENT and ORT (if pears does hang on this year)
This is not going to happen but IMO it should..

We have not clear STUDBUFFALO, thenry maybe if he can remain healthy but so far in his career he has not.. Newbie torain is possible but the lisfranc may take another year before that is completely healed..

TE are the strong point on the O.

If Marshall is 100% he IMO will not be as effective as he was last year.. He will be seeing alot more DC attention than he did last year.. I do not think we can count of another career year from him or better, EVEN if his arm is back to pre horsing around function..

I see no clear #2's none that have even caught a pass from Jay and as it stands have ZERO timing with him and vice versa.. Slot is OK with Stokely and royale as a rookie back up, learning behind a master..

we should have an upgrade @ FB if and when they learn the offense..

Offense should be less effective till mid season IMO only because so many newbies on the team..

ST maybe upgraded with albright as KR but still IMO have a blocking issue.. another big IF..

Kicking game will no doubt be less than we had last year. Losing Elam who IMO won 4 games that we should have lost last year, will cost of several this year.. They only positive I see in losing Elam is we most likely will have to carry one less player in that department this year..

Defense lots of IFs

DL should be instantly upgraded with Robertson, depending on his Knees, I'm hoping that his play will be limited and thus prolong his career in DEN..The guy has the talent for sure.. But that is all other than rookies Crowder and Thomas who got alot of experience in their rookie season they should be better this year if they do not have a sophomore slump like most do.. Moss played so little last year he is still a rookie, although IF he was paying attention watching game film he should be somewhat better than a RAW rookie this year..

LB on paper is upgraded but none of them have played a down next to each other all of them in a "new system" again this year..

DB's CB are some of the best in the league together.. IF we get some heat on the QB. Safety play should be about the same as last year unless we have rookies playing at one of those positions I call the deep one FS, Lynch will function as a 4 LB as he has since he got here no one better at this in the LEAGUE IMO..


Lots of IF on this team overall an upgrade in talent almost across the board, BUT they will take time to figure out where the urinals are, not to mention the playbooks coaching and when to keep their head down when mikey is around..

Off the top of my head I see this team as 6-10 at best as they are going to lose a bunch early before the bye..

Now unless we screw the pooch in the draft next year or most of the draftees from this year get cut 2009 will be the better chance at playoffs..

this year to many IFs, to much NEW in players and schemes to get down early enough to make huge difference.

pnbronco
05-07-2008, 02:25 PM
You do realize they don't play a series of games in the NFL playoffs?

Thanks for making me smile...:laugh: :laugh:

topscribe
05-07-2008, 02:55 PM
In the back of my mind I was hoping that logic would hold true last year. I used the same excuses then. But...we have a new D-coordinator and a new system.....but....we have so many new faces and they haven't had a chance to really work together yet. We got killed on the LOS by Dallas last year. It was a sign of things to come.

Talent is talent. Even though the lineman aren't familiar with a scheme, they can still hold thier own at the point of attack if they have what it takes to be good in the NFL. I'll give Clady a pass, since he's a rook playing in the 2nd hardest position in the offense. The rest of these guys have been there. Nalen, Hamilton, Holland, Kuper, Pears, and even Harris for a few games. In the defensive side of the ball, Thomas, Moss, Crowder, Robertson, Ekuban, Peterson, and the boys have all played. No free passes this year to anyone but rookies. That's just my opinion, and my mindset. You can evaluate talent in a new system with a new scheme and coordinator. That's why the NFL loves games like the senior bowl, North-south game, and those kinds of contests.

Awww, Zig, you just broke my heart.

And here I was using those excuses in advance this time. :tsk:

:D

-----

Ziggy
05-07-2008, 02:59 PM
Speaking of Dallas, is anyone going to be at training camp this year for those practices? If so, please let me know. I don't think I'm going to be able to make it down there. I need a scout with a keen eye. It'll be fun, but the pay sucks. As a matter of fact, there is none. Any takers?

Day1BroncoFan
05-07-2008, 03:01 PM
I vote yes. I say that every year.

Now ask me if they will go to the superbowl. :D











(yes)

haroldthebarrel
05-07-2008, 03:21 PM
Right now Denver is one of those teams with the most question marks going into the season.
The biggest of them all is how Cutler responds to his sickness. I thought he was going to be in the top five before I heard of the diabetes. Now I am just unsure.
A LOT cringes upon how he responds.

Relatively to last season we have improved. There are about 10 young players on the roster who should improve, but needs to take a real big step in order for us to become stable.
It will help to have back Hamilton, Nalen and Henry as far as improving the roster from the end of last year.
Outside of that I think a lot will depend how much our lines are improving. If the d line improves to at least middle there will be a lot of turnover opportunities.
If the O-line improves the touchdowns from running game will come. That is usually the key to how our season looks.
That and the passing game should be better as Cutler hopefully wont be hit as much.

I just say keep our fingers crossed on Cutlers future. We could en with six victories and we could end up with eleven in large part dependent upon how he responds to diabetes, becoming a better player and a better leader.

Broncospsycho77
05-07-2008, 03:29 PM
North: Steelers
South: Indy or Jax
East: New England
West: San Diego
WC: Indy or Jax, Buffalo (insert any surprising team here)

Denver finishes in the 7-9 to 9-7 range... still bit by the inconsistency bug, but with marked improvements in many areas.

Answer still subject to change until after 2nd preseason game :D.

underrated29
05-07-2008, 03:46 PM
maybe i am just ignorant, but how is the diabetes going to affect his game? As long as he takes his insulin before game and during intermissions i really dont think its anything more than someone having/ needing an inhailer.

Still the same guy, still the same talent, now though, he might not live as long and he has to have a ready supply near by just in case.

haroldthebarrel
05-07-2008, 03:56 PM
maybe i am just ignorant, but how is the diabetes going to affect his game? As long as he takes his insulin before game and during intermissions i really dont think its anything more than someone having/ needing an inhailer.

Still the same guy, still the same talent, now though, he might not live as long and he has to have a ready supply near by just in case.

Thats what we all hope. That it shouldnt affect him and maybe even make it better for him in the longer run.
The longer run also says that there arent many top athletes with type 1 diabetes and he will have to break a new road.
Some hits will be deadly to him with diabetes. Some other may affect him such that he will have to leave the game for a test.
However you put it, Cutlers diabetes situation makes him a question mark. And thus putting our season with serious question marks all over.

topscribe
05-07-2008, 04:17 PM
Thats what we all hope. That it shouldnt affect him and maybe even make it better for him in the longer run.
The longer run also says that there arent many top athletes with type 1 diabetes and he will have to break a new road.
Some hits will be deadly to him with diabetes. Some other may affect him such that he will have to leave the game for a test.
However you put it, Cutlers diabetes situation makes him a question mark. And thus putting our season with serious question marks all over.

There are a whole bunch of top athletes with Type 1 diabetes.

And a hit does not jar the sugar level in a body. :lol:

My family has a history of diabetes, on both sides.

This is good . . . :pound:

-----

dogfish
05-07-2008, 05:07 PM
North: Steelers
South: Indy or Jax
East: New England
West: San Diego
WC: Indy or Jax, Buffalo (insert any surprising team here)

Denver finishes in the 7-9 to 9-7 range... still bit by the inconsistency bug, but with marked improvements in many areas.

Answer still subject to change until after 2nd preseason game :D.

i think that's a good point-- given the narrow escapes we had last year that could just as easily have been losses, the team could be noticeably better this season and not improve it's overall record significantly. . .


naturally i want us to make the playoffs, but in all honesty i will be pretty satisfied if i see some sustainable progress that we can build on for the future-- particularly the play of cutler and both of the lines. . .

Timmy!
05-07-2008, 05:53 PM
Yes.

Nature Boy
05-07-2008, 06:21 PM
The Broncos went 7-9 went in 2007 with a broken defense. We should have beat Chicago and Green Bay and went 9-7. With the acquisition of Boss Bailey, Robertson, Clady, Cutler in his 3rd year and Travis Henry coming back healthy and hopefully no more off field distractions, I don't see how the Broncos will not go at least 10-6 and make a wildcard spot.

I'm prediction an 11-5 season.

haroldthebarrel
05-07-2008, 06:33 PM
There are a whole bunch of top athletes with Type 1 diabetes.

And a hit does not jar the sugar level in a body. :lol:

My family has a history of diabetes, on both sides.

This is good . . . :pound:

-----

correct me if i am wrong but isnt a hit to the spleen and/or hits to the liver, arent those possibly fatal for people who has weaknesses in those areas?

I read somewhere at least that hits to the spleen could be fatal, but any docs or guys with knowledge could set the facts straight on that.

Ziggy
05-07-2008, 06:37 PM
correct me if i am wrong but isnt a hit to the spleen and/or hits to the liver, arent those possibly fatal for people who has weaknesses in those areas?

I read somewhere at least that hits to the spleen could be fatal, but any docs or guys with knowledge could set the facts straight on that.

I'm not a doctor, just a paramedic. Cutler won't have any different reaction from a hit to the spleen or liver than any other player. The diabetes will affect him only if he doesn't manage it properly.

haroldthebarrel
05-07-2008, 06:39 PM
I'm not a doctor, just a paramedic. Cutler won't have any different reaction from a hit to the spleen or liver than any other player. The diabetes will affect him only if he doesn't manage it properly.

Well thats good.

I will still wait for a true medical response, but sometimes you just love to be wrong. And on this subject I couldnt be happier if you are right.

People with diseases like that sometimes develop unreal discipline. Lets hope he is one of them. I feel much better now at least, thanks.

topscribe
05-07-2008, 06:50 PM
Well thats good.

I will still wait for a true medical response, but sometimes you just love to be wrong. And on this subject I couldnt be happier if you are right.

People with diseases like that sometimes develop unreal discipline. Lets hope he is one of them. I feel much better now at least, thanks.

The only way the liver or spleen becomes damaged or deficient is if the
diabetes is not treated at a reasonably early stage. Otherwise, it's just like
hitting you or me (although I have a strong aversion to getting hit).

Wade Wilson played QB with Type 1 diabetes for 15 years, and he is still
running around the field as a coach. So that is a good example of how a QB
can live with the disease. As the doctors said, there is no reason Cutler
can't have a successful career as a QB. :smile:

-----

EastCoastBronco
05-07-2008, 09:03 PM
I'll keep it simple and I hope my beloved Broncs will too...If we can get our red zone offense working...and trade all those 3's for 7's we will win at least 5 more games than we did last year and we will make the playoffs.

TXBRONC
05-07-2008, 09:06 PM
I'll keep it simple and I hope my beloved Broncs will to...If we can get our red zone offense working...and trade all those 3's for 7's we will win at least 5 more games than we did last year and we will make the playoffs.

I agree that is possible but it also means the defense has to play a lot better than it did.

EastCoastBronco
05-07-2008, 09:14 PM
I agree that is possible but it also means the defense has to play a lot better than it did.

I'll admit our D sucked but I think a huge part of them sucking was that they were totally disheartened by the O's lack of ability to score touchdowns. It's a hell of a lot easier to defend a 35 point lead than a 15 point lead...

omac
05-07-2008, 09:16 PM
I agree that is possible but it also means the defense has to play a lot better than it did.

I agree and I'll take it further. If our defense played just as well as it did in 06 or before that (pre-Bates), I'm thinking we could've won at least 2 or 3 more games, even with the lack of red zone production. Our defense really gave away games and kept our offense cold on the bench. That puts a lot of pressure on the offense, knowing at the back of their minds that the opposing team will have a relatively easy time marching towards your endzone.

TXBRONC
05-07-2008, 09:22 PM
I agree and I'll take it further. If our defense played just as well as it did in 06 or before that (pre-Bates), I'm thinking we could've won at least 2 or 3 more games, even with the lack of red zone production. Our defense really gave away games and kept our offense cold on the bench. That puts a lot of pressure on the offense, knowing at the back of their minds that the opposing team will have a relatively easy time marching towards your endzone.


Another thing that we really have to have improvement on is battle of field position especially in the return game.

topscribe
05-07-2008, 09:39 PM
I agree that is possible but it also means the defense has to play a lot better than it did.

I am certain the defense will play better than it did last year, when the
Broncos did not have Robertson, Ekuban, Moss, Boss, Koutouvides, MCree, or
D.J. (in the right spot).

But the Broncos did have Bates . . .

-----

TXBRONC
05-07-2008, 09:42 PM
I am certain the defense will play better than it did last year, when the
Broncos did not have Robertson, Ekuban, Moss, Boss, Koutouvides, MCree, or
D.J. (in the right spot).

But the Broncos did have Bates . . .

-----

Yep the guy who thought Gordon was a better fit than Warren.

Tned
05-07-2008, 09:54 PM
I agree and I'll take it further. If our defense played just as well as it did in 06 or before that (pre-Bates), I'm thinking we could've won at least 2 or 3 more games, even with the lack of red zone production. Our defense really gave away games and kept our offense cold on the bench. That puts a lot of pressure on the offense, knowing at the back of their minds that the opposing team will have a relatively easy time marching towards your endzone.

Agreed. If the defense was just as solid as the pre-bates era, we wouldn't have been giving up 170 yards a game on the ground, the offense would have spent more time on the field, and who knows. Due to the idiotic offensive play calling, we still would have struggled, but with Bates and Heimerdinger now gone, there is enough talent on the team, that if it is 'properly' utilized, there is no reason this team can't win 10-12 games.

Will it? Who knows. That's why the actually play the games, rather than looking at the rosters and giving the Lombardi trophy away in August. However, if the team gets back to focusing on utilizing the talent on the field to the best of their abilities (i.e. 13 wins, almost nobody in the pro-bowl) then the team has a chance to surprise a lot of people this season.

broncogirl7
05-07-2008, 09:55 PM
I say we will definately make the playoffs.

TXBRONC
05-07-2008, 10:28 PM
Agreed. If the defense was just as solid as the pre-bates era, we wouldn't have been giving up 170 yards a game on the ground, the offense would have spent more time on the field, and who knows. Due to the idiotic offensive play calling, we still would have struggled, but with Bates and Heimerdinger now gone, there is enough talent on the team, that if it is 'properly' utilized, there is no reason this team can't win 10-12 games.

Will it? Who knows. That's why the actually play the games, rather than looking at the rosters and giving the Lombardi trophy away in August. However, if the team gets back to focusing on utilizing the talent on the field to the best of their abilities (i.e. 13 wins, almost nobody in the pro-bowl) then the team has a chance to surprise a lot of people this season.

I hope you're right that we'll win 10-12 games this year. But as I've said elsewhere we have to have better play in the return game as well.

Dreadnought
05-07-2008, 10:43 PM
The more I think about it the more optimistic I get. It won't take a huge improvement from the D to make us a decent ballclub. We can win some games without having to field the second coming of the Orange Crush. Hell, if we can hold opponents to 4.2 YPC and 120 a game on the ground that would be a huge improvement over the baby's Ass soft Jim Bates Run defense we watched last Year. With those numbers we would still suck on run D, but not catastrophically anymore, and that would be good enough for 10-6 if the offense is half as good as I think it will be.

TXBRONC
05-07-2008, 10:48 PM
The more I think about it the more optimistic I get. It won't take a huge improvement from the D to make us a decent ballclub. We can win some games without having to field the second coming of the Orange Crush. Hell, if we can hold opponents to 4.2 YPC and 120 a game on the ground that would be a huge improvement over the baby's Ass soft Jim Bates Run defense we watched last Year. With those numbers we would still suck on run D, but not catastrophically anymore, and that would be good enough for 10-6 if the offense is half as good as I think it will be.

Just getting better against the run would more than likely give us better chance to get to the playoffs.

Tned
05-07-2008, 11:06 PM
Just getting better against the run would more than likely give us better chance to get to the playoffs.

Look at '06. Even with Heimerdinger's dismantling of the offense, we started off 7-2, because the defense carried the day.

Bates took the D down, like Dinger did the O. While Shanny wouldn't throw his friend Dinger under the bus, he had no problem throwing Bates under the bus and blaming him for the defensive failures.

BCJ
05-09-2008, 07:34 PM
After what happened last year, I will not go with my blinders on. I thought 10 and 6 with 9 and 7 at worse would be the norm for us last year. I like what we have done, but so many new holes doesnt mean playoffs. Remember, it isnt just your team getting better (IYO), but other teams are getting better. I do want to see a winning record. Sweeping Faiders and Chiefs are top priority this year.

Lonestar
05-09-2008, 07:55 PM
After what happened last year, I will not go with my blinders on. I thought 10 and 6 with 9 and 7 at worse would be the norm for us last year. I like what we have done, but so many new holes doesnt mean playoffs. Remember, it isnt just your team getting better (IYO), but other teams are getting better. I do want to see a winning record. Sweeping Faiders and Chiefs are top priority this year.

This is what most folks fail to see.

Last year most thought with Norv the loser taking over for marty that they would be a lesser team.. They actually improved.. kicked our ass not only once but twice..

OAK has a pretty solid team if the owner would stay out of the mix and allow the coach to do his job they might make some noise although the QB there doe not impress me at this time.. a couple of years maybe.. But then again handing off the McFadden might make him an all pro QB..

KC had been building a load with the past few drafts if they can get some QB magic by mid season this team couple spoil a lot of teams dreams.

that folks is 37 % of the games we play each year.. they have all improved on paper perhaps even more than we did.. Time will tell..

omac
05-09-2008, 08:22 PM
This is what most folks fail to see.

Last year most thought with Norv the loser taking over for marty that they would be a lesser team.. They actually improved.. kicked our ass not only once but twice..

OAK has a pretty solid team if the owner would stay out of the mix and allow the coach to do his job they might make some noise although the QB there doe not impress me at this time.. a couple of years maybe.. But then again handing off the McFadden might make him an all pro QB..

KC had been building a load with the past few drafts if they can get some QB magic by mid season this team couple spoil a lot of teams dreams.

that folks is 37 % of the games we play each year.. they have all improved on paper perhaps even more than we did.. Time will tell..

I agree; I was one of those who thought the Chargers would be worse under Norv, and they were early on, but they did get much better.

All 3 teams other teams are getting better, but there are some silver linings.

Despite all the good moves KC did in the draft, they still did not address one of their most suspect spots ... QB. Brodie Croyle hasn't impressed much, and even though it was still his starting job to lose in the preseason, he did lose it out to the veteran.

With Oakland, let's hope Al Davis keeps getting in Lane Kiffin's way. They may have gotten a potentially great RB in McFadden, but they were already I think 6th in rushing. They could've gotten Dorsey, who would've immediately helped their anemic rush defense, plus some say Dorsey was the best player in the draft. Thank you Al. :D

With the Chargers ... well, they can't get much better, can they. :D

Acedude
05-10-2008, 08:32 PM
For posterity's sake, I have to remind people of a classic moment in NFl history. Herman Edwards diving over the line on a kneel-down play trying to cause a fumble when he was a player in the NFL. That was an NFL classic. Herm was one of my favorite players in the NFL long ago, dude was a competitor.

Acedude
05-10-2008, 08:39 PM
Oh yeah, Denver has a good chance to make the playoffs this year. 10 wins usually makes the playoffs, and Denver has a good chance to do that.

nevcraw
05-10-2008, 09:25 PM
10-6 to 12-4 range.

1. Broncos start winning the FP chess match. High hopes for Royal and crew giving them better starting points. which in turn will help the defense have more green behind them when the Broncos don't score.

2. The Diabetes (unlike the deaths of DWill and Nash b/c of the sheer emotional drain) will be a positive tipping point for the team to rally around. If Cutler can suck it up, everyone else will follow.

3. Depth - OL, DL may not be studded yet but atleast their are enough players w/ experience to fill in if starters go down.

4. Speed - team is loaded with speed.

5. Health - time for a an upswing in this department, right??

LoyalSoldier
05-10-2008, 09:42 PM
This team has both the potential to flop into a losing record or get in with a winning record. It has great players and a ton of unknowns.

I think at this point I will say a .500 team considering we have a relatively easy schedule.

TXBRONC
05-11-2008, 10:17 PM
This team has both the potential to flop into a losing record or get in with a winning record. It has great players and a ton of unknowns.

I think at this point I will say a .500 team considering we have a relatively easy schedule.

I agree that at this point I think we'll be .500 team.

Bronco Yoda
05-12-2008, 06:34 PM
Championship!

Mark It Down!

(no i refuse to take my Orange tinted sunglasses off this early :) time to be realistic later on...lol )


Our division will get tougher all around this year. The AFC West will be more respected after this season.

Tned
05-12-2008, 06:57 PM
Championship!

Mark It Down!

(no i refuse to take my Orange tinted sunglasses off this early :) time to be realistic later on...lol )


Our division will get tougher all around this year. The AFC West will be more respected after this season.

I think we will do better than expected, and make a run at the playoffs, but I think it will be a couple years before the west is respected as a tough division again.

TXBRONC
05-12-2008, 08:03 PM
I think we will do better than expected, and make a run at the playoffs, but I think it will be a couple years before the west is respected as a tough division again.

I think we'll finish with something like an 8-8 record at least that's what my gut instinct tells me. However, I don't write off the fact that it is entirely possible that we could make a run at the playoffs if things come together quickly.

SmilinAssasSin27
05-12-2008, 08:05 PM
I'm goin w/ no.

We have to compete w/ Buffalo, Tenn, Hous, Jax/Indy, Clev/Pitt and Bmore. Too mnay people to get past. I'm guessing the WC spots will be among Buffalo, Pitt, Hous and Jax.

slim
05-12-2008, 08:11 PM
I think we will make the playoffs...if we win more games than 5 other teams in the AFC. If we don't win more games than 5 other teams in the AFC, then we won't make the playoffs.

TXBRONC
05-12-2008, 09:12 PM
I'm goin w/ no.

We have to compete w/ Buffalo, Tenn, Hous, Jax/Indy, Clev/Pitt and Bmore. Too mnay people to get past. I'm guessing the WC spots will be among Buffalo, Pitt, Hous and Jax.

Why did you put Baltimore in there?

SmilinAssasSin27
05-12-2008, 09:34 PM
Why did you Baltimore in there?

To be honest...if we are contenders, so are they.

Timmy!
05-13-2008, 06:58 AM
I think we will make the playoffs...if we win more games than 5 other teams in the AFC. If we don't win more games than 5 other teams in the AFC, then we won't make the playoffs.

What Slim said. End of discussion. :D

Acedude
05-13-2008, 05:57 PM
I'm goin w/ no.

We have to compete w/ Buffalo, Tenn, Hous, Jax/Indy, Clev/Pitt and Bmore. Too mnay people to get past. I'm guessing the WC spots will be among Buffalo, Pitt, Hous and Jax.

I won't count Denver out right now as a WC, since they play Buff, Cle, Jets, and Jax. If Denver beats those teams, then that could be the difference between making the playoffs or not.

I'm with all the people that say Denver's D will be improved this year. I think the ST's will be improved this year also. The O is the question mark to me. I think it's a good possibility that Denver makes 10 wins. 10 wins should make the playoffs if Denver beats the right teams, and there's no telling what can happen once you make the playoffs.

Npba900
05-14-2008, 06:23 AM
I would say that the Jaguars will be better than 9-7. They are a very physical team and on the rise in the AFC. This could be the year they supplant the Colts and win the division title. If they do, the Colts will be one of the wild-cards.

As of now, I'll give Denver the other wild-card. Looking at that schedule you have to think it's a pretty easy schedule. Virtually all those teams, with the exception of the Chargers and Patriots, the Broncos could easily win.

That means they start with 3 losses (maybe -- unless they can beat the Chargers at home or something).

Then factor in the improved defense from a year ago.

1. Bate's scheme didn't fit the personnel, there was massive turnover by mid-season with 1/2 the defensive tackles being cut by week 8. This year they are better, more experience and using a scheme that fits the players better. I expect major improvement on defense. They won't be as good as the Chargers say, but still any improvement is a help.

With DeWayne Robertson in the middle it won't be as easy to run on the Broncos as last year. That's a big plus.

Dumervil, Moss, Crowder and Thomas all should be improved this year with more experience. We don't know how good the latter three will be, but they are bound to be better than last season when they were rookies.

We don't know how well the LBs will play, but Ian Gold had a disappointing season, D.J. Williams was learning a new position and struggling at times, and Nate Webster was a scrub, so it could hardly be worse.

Lynch is a year older but he can't get much slower. They brought in a couple of safeties who will be a help, but nothing special. With better DL play, Champ and Bly won't get exposed as much in single coverage. Foxworth and Paymah should be adequate as backup CBs.

So, overall the defense is bound to improve.

Offense:

1. Cutler is entering his third year and his diabetes will be treated. He should be more consistent this season.

2. OL -- With Hamilton back and the addition of Ryan Clady, this unit should be improved over last season. Shanahan pointed out that Matt Lepsis didn't have a good year last year, so even though Clady is a rookie he could be better than that. We'll see. But, the Broncos have decent if not great players all over the OL now, with Montrae Holland getting more experience, Nalen, Chris Kuper, etc. They should benefit from more experience playing together.

Frankly, this is the biggest question mark on the team right now. Will the OL come together and be good, or struggle and get Cutler injured? This will largely determine whether the Broncos are a playoff contender. They can't struggle in the red-zone like last year and still get to the playoffs.

3. WRs. Unless Brandon Marshall's injury hampers him this year the Broncos should be better at WR this season than last. Javon was injured and ineffective most of the year, so a healthy Jackson is bound to be better than that. Royal might make a decent backup, and if not Colbert can be used in spot duty if too much isn't expected of him.

4. RBs -- Henry is injury free and doesn't have any court cases hanging over him. Torain is a nice pickup as a change of pace back and could emerge as the #2 back. Andre Hall and Selvin Young are decent backups as long as neither is expected to carry the load.

Overall, the RBs are better this year than last, when the Broncos didn't know that they had any decent backups to Henry. If he's injured again they could probably get by with RB by committee (Torain, Young, Hall).

5. TEs -- With better OL play, Daniel Graham will get more chances to catch passes, which he does well. We didn't see it last season because he had to stay in to prevent Cutler from being killed on every play. Tony Sheffler has done nothing much, but he did improve late last season and could become a nice weapon in 2 TE sets, which Denver likes to use a lot.

Overall, the team is improved in almost every area and they have what should be a weak schedule. That alone would be worth 2 or 3 games to a decent team.

Whether the Broncos are REALLY improved rather than merely improved on paper remains to be seen. However, given the really bad performance of both the OL and DL last season, it's hard to imagine they would be worse!

The downside risk is that the Broncos were very lucky to win 7 games. At least 3 of those games they could/should have lost -- the Buffalo last second FG, the Raiders game where the Raiders actually had the game-winning FG before Shanahan's Time-out trick, the overtime win against the Vikings, etc.

That team could easily have been 4-12 and probably without a couple of lucky breaks would have been. This years' team might not be so lucky.

So, they might be much improved and still finish 8-8 or something. We'll see. :coffee:

Cug, great analysis. I couldn't agree more. I think this years Broncos could finish btwn 6-10 or 9-7 (injuries not withstanding).

However, next season, I expect the Broncos to have their break out year, mainly b/c Cutler will be entering his 3rd year as a full time starter and the draft classes of 2006 and 2007, and 2008 will have just the right mixture of experience to start making huge impacts.

The Broncos need the 2009 draft where they are picking anywhere from the 12th to 15th spot to solidify their rebuilding movement. The Broncos are really close to returning to the top of the AFC west....just not in 2008.

Be Patient Bronco Faith-full, we are almost there....however, it won't happen in 2008.

I'm impressed with the Broncos draft class of 2006, 2007, and 2008 thus far and we need one more good draft class in 2009, and the Broncos will be ready for 5 or 6 SB runs.

SmilinAssasSin27
05-14-2008, 10:34 PM
I'm done playing the weak schedule card.

We lost to STL and San Fran in 2006.

We lost to Detroit and Green Bay in 2007 (GB was projected as bad team)...and Chicago who WAS a bad team. Also lost to Houston.

We could lose to 3 of the 4 in the NFC South and, pending on Miami's infusion of Parcells and actual talent, all 4 vs the AFC East. Not saying we will, but we never shoulda lost to others either if ya look at pre-season projections.

TXBRONC
05-14-2008, 10:41 PM
I'm done playing the weak schedule card.

We lost to STL and San Fran in 2006.

We lost to Detroit and Green Bay in 2007 (GB was projected as bad team)...and Chicago who WAS a bad team. Also lost to Houston.

We could lose to 3 of the 4 in the NFC South and, pending on Miami's infusion of Parcells and actual talent, all 4 vs the AFC East. Not saying we will, but we never shoulda lost to others either if ya look at pre-season projections.


You can never account for injuries or how well a team will play when they have them.

SmilinAssasSin27
05-14-2008, 10:44 PM
You can never account for injuries or how well a team will play when they have them.

we lost to Miami in week 1 in 2005 and to st louis in week 1 in 2006. No injuries of note for either. We were banged up last year, but we had a few embarassing losses wher injuries didn't play a part.

TXBRONC
05-14-2008, 10:54 PM
we lost to Miami in week 1 in 2005 and to st louis in week 1 in 2006. No injuries of note for either. We were banged up last year, but we had a few embarassing losses wher injuries didn't play a part.

Miami was a road game and so was St. Louis. Also in 2005 we bounced back to have 13-3 season and we had reasonably healthy team that year as well.

Lonestar
05-14-2008, 10:56 PM
Miami was a road game and so was St. Louis. Also in 2005 we bounced back to have 13-3 season and we had reasonably healthy team that year as well.

Most objective fans would also have to say Jake played a relatively mistake free season..

Tned
05-14-2008, 11:01 PM
My cousin goes to Vegas on Labor day. The Broncos typically have horrible odds. Looking forward to this years 40:1 (or more) or so SB odds.

TXBRONC
05-14-2008, 11:02 PM
Most objective fans would also have to say Jake played a relatively mistake free season..

Absolutely 2005 was Jake's best season as a pro.

Stargazer
05-15-2008, 12:33 AM
Most objective fans would also have to say Jake played a relatively mistake free season..

He did have a good 2005 season.

But, I think most objective fans knew something was missing from the QB play. That, eventually the shoe would drop. Unfortunately, Jake Plummer's play was eventually exposed.

Tned
05-15-2008, 06:36 AM
He did have a good 2005 season.

But, I think most objective fans knew something was missing from the QB play. That, eventually the shoe would drop. Unfortunately, Jake Plummer's play was eventually exposed.

No, his play wasn't exposed. He played VERY well in '03, '04 and '05 with Kubiak, with of course '05 being the best. Then, Kubiak leaves, Heimerdinger comes in and decides to implement a pocket passing, shotgun, multi-WR set, and both Jake and Jay failed in that experiement.

TXBRONC
05-15-2008, 07:20 AM
No, his play wasn't exposed. He played VERY well in '03, '04 and '05 with Kubiak, with of course '05 being the best. Then, Kubiak leaves, Heimerdinger comes in and decides to implement a pocket passing, shotgun, multi-WR set, and both Jake and Jay failed in that experiement.


'03 he missed several games because of a broken foot and '04 I would say was mixed bag.

omac
05-15-2008, 09:44 AM
No, his play wasn't exposed. He played VERY well in '03, '04 and '05 with Kubiak, with of course '05 being the best. Then, Kubiak leaves, Heimerdinger comes in and decides to implement a pocket passing, shotgun, multi-WR set, and both Jake and Jay failed in that experiement.

Nah, Jay actually did pretty well, despite the lack of protection from his OL and a bunch of injured offensive starters, both in his rookie year and his 1st full year as a starter. 9 TDs and 5 INTs in 5 games as a rookie, then about 3500 yards and 21(?) TDs his first full season. I hardly call that failing.

haroldthebarrel
05-15-2008, 10:19 AM
Usually when a tragedy happens the team that are involved in it experiences either a very good season or a let down season. We had a let down season after the two deaths.
However the year after, teams often have a break out season.
Just look the Saints two years after the Hurricane.
Of course talent has a lot to do with it, but I wouldnt underestimate the power of psychology in sports. And when we really think about it, we did not play to our talent last year and still ended 7-9.

omac
05-15-2008, 10:21 AM
He did have a good 2005 season.

But, I think most objective fans knew something was missing from the QB play. That, eventually the shoe would drop. Unfortunately, Jake Plummer's play was eventually exposed.

I agree with you, but I'm not sure exposed is the right word. Shanny fully utilized Jake's strengths in his offense, while working around his limitations as a passer. But for me, more than anything, Jake's biggest weakness was his propensity to throw INTs. What made 2005 such a great season for him was that he was making better decisions; Shanny said on tv during that season that he worked hard with Jake on just getting rid of the ball ... throwing it to the stands. In the AFCCG, sportscasters were wondering if he could still maintain his decision making while passing that earned him the nickname no-mistake-jake, or if he'd revert to the QB that had a propensity for throwing INTs. Well, that was that.

(added) On a side note, it makes me think that after that game, maybe Shanny decided that eventually, Jake would play the way he'd want to play, and decided to get a young mind who he could still mold.

Tough to blame Jake about that though; for a long time, he had to force throws in order to make his Arizona Cardinals competitive. Some habbits are hard to break.

Talent-wise, when Walsh was consulted by the 49ers on which QB of the 97 class to take, and Walsh picked Jake. Too bad the 49ers picked Druckenmiller. :D Who knows how much better Jake would've been if he started on a team that knew how to bring up QBs.

Lonestar
05-15-2008, 12:06 PM
He did have a good 2005 season.

But, I think most objective fans knew something was missing from the QB play. That, eventually the shoe would drop. Unfortunately, Jake Plummer's play was eventually exposed.

The OLINES and DL were exposed in that game you speak of Jake was along for the ride..

PITT exposed the Broncos, dismantled the entire team..

With Jake he may have had a missing part, but when he came to DEN he was already a 8 year vet with a limited life span.. IF mikey did not know what he was getting when he brought Jake to town then place the blame in the appropriate pocket..

Lonestar
05-15-2008, 12:09 PM
No, his play wasn't exposed. He played VERY well in '03, '04 and '05 with Kubiak, with of course '05 being the best. Then, Kubiak leaves, Heimerdinger comes in and decides to implement a pocket passing, shotgun, multi-WR set, and both Jake and Jay failed in that experiement.


add the OLINE to that list..

One could also say the WR , TE and RB did not do so well either..

Anyone really wonder why Dinger is gone..

Tired to do stuff we were not capable of doing.. POCKET PASS

sacmar
05-15-2008, 12:51 PM
I proudly say "Yes" we will. And will forgive all of you at the start of the postseason who said no.

lex
05-15-2008, 12:53 PM
The OLINES and DL were exposed in that game you speak of Jake was along for the ride..

PITT exposed the Broncos, dismantled the entire team..

With Jake he may have had a missing part, but when he came to DEN he was already a 8 year vet with a limited life span.. IF mikey did not know what he was getting when he brought Jake to town then place the blame in the appropriate pocket..

That season there were multiple things happening. It was an OLine that had been in a slow state of erosion. It was Jakes limitations as a QB and it was also the fact that Coyer couldnt improvise with live bullets when it was apparent the other team had an answer for his scheming.

SmilinAssasSin27
05-15-2008, 06:48 PM
Miami was a road game and so was St. Louis. Also in 2005 we bounced back to have 13-3 season and we had reasonably healthy team that year as well.

Hardly changes the fact that we lost to CLEARLY inferior teams.

Ray Finkle
05-15-2008, 07:10 PM
Difficult to say, Denver will be fighting for a wildcard spot. Unless the Dolts have some huge injury bug or mental fart, they are one of the top teams in the AFC. That leaves Denver fighting for 2 spots. Can happen but Denver needs a top 15 defense and a healthy Cutler and Marshall. A lot of ifs.....

champbronc2
05-15-2008, 08:53 PM
Yes, we will make the playoffs.

I believe we will regain the consistency we lacked last season.

We showed sparks of greatness last season, and I expect to see only that this season.

TXBRONC
05-15-2008, 10:19 PM
Hardly changes the fact that we lost to CLEARLY inferior teams.

Well yes it because not in most season teams don't win every game and they sometimes lose to teams that on paper they should beat.

SmilinAssasSin27
05-16-2008, 09:58 PM
Well yes it because not in most season teams don't win every game and they sometimes lose to teams that on paper they should beat.

Are you forgetting that my point was that I don't pay attention to "strength of schedule"? It sounds like yer supporting my argument.

But i digress...I agree all teams lose some they shouldn't but the 2 I mentioned, plus a few others were major upsets. Major. Denevr should have dominated Miami and STL. In July of those respective years, all fans chalked those up as wins. Not maybes...wins. Upsets do happen, but we have began a trend of losing to teams that many rate as inferior in the preseason.

Lonestar
05-16-2008, 10:24 PM
Yes, we will make the playoffs.

I believe we will regain the consistency we lacked last season.

We showed sparks of greatness last season, and I expect to see only that this season.

We IMO will be hard pressed to be consistent especially early in the year.. By the bye week we will get better..

I think your optimism is overlooking the youth of this squad, with youth is inconsistency and with so many new kids working next to each other it is compounded..

We had as you said sparks of greatness. But there were also sparks of implosion..

Lonestar
05-16-2008, 10:26 PM
Are you forgetting that my point was that I don't pay attention to "strength of schedule"? It sounds like yer supporting my argument.

But i digress...I agree all teams lose some they shouldn't but the 2 I mentioned, plus a few others were major upsets. Major. Denevr should have dominated Miami and STL. In July of those respective years, all fans chalked those up as wins. Not maybes...wins. Upsets do happen, but we have began a trend of losing to teams that many rate as inferior in the preseason.


Good reasonable post let me add

Nor do they have their asses handed to them by SAN twice nor DET once that truly was not a good team..

champbronc2
05-18-2008, 08:44 AM
Yes, I think we will.

We were close last year but our inconsistency killed us. We had to many games that could have flipped the other way, and taken us to the playoffs. Had we made the playoffs we probably would've got annihilated but we could've made it last year.

We have gotten better this off-season and I think it will take us over the hump. I think the main problem was the team not gelling together.

With Boss and Champ together, and DJ, Bly, and Lynch already used to the crew I think gelling shouldn't be much of a problem. Hopefully they all stay on the same page.

I think if all goes well 10-6 is our record.

Divinelegion
05-18-2008, 11:37 AM
I think we will be alot better this season, in 05 both of our lines were good and we had the skill players to take over games. Last season our lines were terrible but we had awsome skill players who couldent be utilized because of our crappy line play. We saw flashs of what was to come on offense and Defense when we went up against teams with inferior lines to each respectivly. If Clady makes an imediate impact on this team we will see a diffrent Offense all together, Jays rating outside the pocket was 125.3 for the better part of last season before his health realy declined, because he had more time to throw. Imagine if we can acctualy protect Jay and give him a servicable pocket. If he gets the time to thow like Manning, and Brady get week in and week out hes going to dominate.

Our D-line is on its way, it takes a full season of development for a D-linemen to adjust to the NFL. Crowder looked good last season and I am realy high on his intangables and Motor. Moss is so fast hes going to suprise alot of people this season with how good the kid realy is, plus he had all that down time he was injured to bulk up. Dumervil has been a pass rushing monster since the day he stepped onto the Grid Iron. Marcus Thomas will probably show the biggest strides because he got a full season as a starter and will have a better supporting cast with D-Rob beside him. After season of development and adding players like Powel and Robertson our line should generate enough pressure to help our secondary shine the way its supposed to.

champbronc2
05-18-2008, 09:30 PM
We IMO will be hard pressed to be consistent especially early in the year.. By the bye week we will get better..

I think your optimism is overlooking the youth of this squad, with youth is inconsistency and with so many new kids working next to each other it is compounded..

We had as you said sparks of greatness. But there were also sparks of implosion..
I am such a homer....

I never even glanced at the opposite end of the spectrum.

omac
05-18-2008, 10:17 PM
Good reasonable post let me add

Nor do they have their asses handed to them by SAN twice nor DET once that truly was not a good team..

SD and Detroit have 2 things in common; 1st, they're both excellent teams at sacking the QB, so that puts a lot of pressure on both our makeshift OL, as well as our QB, who won't have time to do much with the ball.

2nd, both teams have very average run defenses, so since we could'nt protect our QBs that way, the only other way to ease that pressure should've been through our run game. Our RBs (with the help of our OL) performed very poorly during those games. If our RBs could've had good output running, that would give more leeway for the passing game, and it could've been a very different game. But Travis Henry, because of his earlier injuries, was not much of a factor the rest of the season.

If our number one RB can be solid and healthy the whole season, then we will be able to be competitive with SD. Either that or our OL suddenly becomes elite in pass protection immediately after the offseason. :D

Lonestar
05-18-2008, 10:59 PM
SD and Detroit have 2 things in common; 1st, they're both excellent teams at sacking the QB, so that puts a lot of pressure on both our makeshift OL, as well as our QB, who won't have time to do much with the ball.

2nd, both teams have very average run defenses, so since we could'nt protect our QBs that way, the only other way to ease that pressure should've been through our run game. Our RBs (with the help of our OL) performed very poorly during those games. If our RBs could've had good output running, that would give more leeway for the passing game, and it could've been a very different game. But Travis Henry, because of his earlier injuries, was not much of a factor the rest of the season.

If our number one RB can be solid and healthy the whole season, then we will be able to be competitive with SD. Either that or our OL suddenly becomes elite in pass protection immediately after the offseason. :D


Normally I agree with alot of your football ideas but, I think your living in a pipe dream on this until they lose some talent off of the front 7 we will always struggle with them.. We have had issues with every 3-4 defense with decent talent, for as long as I can remember..

This OLINE will have to be mega improved to be able to run on them.. That is unlikely in year one with the OT positions being new..

omac
05-18-2008, 11:13 PM
Normally I agree with alot of your football ideas but, I think your living in a pipe dream on this until they lose some talent off of the front 7 we will always struggle with them.. We have had issues with every 3-4 defense with decent talent, for as long as I can remember..

This OLINE will have to be mega improved to be able to run on them.. That is unlikely in year one with the OT positions being new..

... except maybe NE; just kidding. :D

If our offense can win the time of possesion battle with a slow grinding running game against their rush defense that is ranked 16, that gives us a chance. Although after last season, it seems more likely that our defense will be the one that could make us lose the TOP battle. I agree, though, that the OL won't suddenly transform into an elite one overnight.

Lonestar
05-18-2008, 11:21 PM
... except maybe NE; just kidding. :D

If our offense can win the time of possesion battle with a slow grinding running game against their rush defense that is ranked 16, that gives us a chance. Although after last season, it seems more likely that our defense will be the one that could make us lose the TOP battle. I agree, though, that the OL won't suddenly transform into an elite one overnight.

I do not think that as long as Nalen and Hamilton are starting the next couple of years it will become elite..

I'm sure no one will agree with this but I rather get the heirs apparent on the field along with clady and start building cohesiveness day one.. SO we suck it up a bit early in the year we do not have to do it again next year and the year after when Nalen retires and Hamilton is disabled..


BTW while we have beat NE most of the time the past few years I'd guess it may not happen for a few more years.. Just like out owning OAK for years that also has stopped..

Acedude
05-19-2008, 12:00 AM
... except maybe NE; just kidding. :D

If our offense can win the time of possesion battle with a slow grinding running game against their rush defense that is ranked 16, that gives us a chance. Although after last season, it seems more likely that our defense will be the one that could make us lose the TOP battle. I agree, though, that the OL won't suddenly transform into an elite one overnight.

Denver's O back in 96-98 was superb, you can't duplicate that. That O ran like a clock. It's hard to duplicate that. It was a great team all around, on O and D and ST's. Heck, Denver hasn't had a returner better than Darrien Gordon in all this time. Denver hasn't had better safeties than Atwater and Tyrone Braxton in all this time. Denver's linebackers have been scrubs, these LB's have four INT's since 2000? This guy Bly is one of the weakest tacklers I've ever seen in the NFL, dude is just pathetic.

I went onto a rant there, but the O I think has potential to score 30 a game.

Lonestar
05-19-2008, 02:15 AM
Denver's O back in 96-98 was superb, you can't duplicate that. That O ran like a clock. It's hard to duplicate that. It was a great team all around, on O and D and ST's. Heck, Denver hasn't had a returner better than Darrien Gordon in all this time. Denver hasn't had better safeties than Atwater and Tyrone Braxton in all this time. Denver's linebackers have been scrubs, these LB's have four INT's since 2000? This guy Bly is one of the weakest tacklers I've ever seen in the NFL, dude is just pathetic.

I went onto a rant there, but the O I think has potential to score 30 a game.


The SB years had a great Offense 3 HOF players not counting TD.. You do not see that many HOF players on one team at the same very often..