Should Denver hire a proven/experienced QB coach?

[broncofaninfla]

Should Denver hire a proven/experienced QB coach?

[EMB6903]

Josh Mcdaniels is Tebow's QB coach regardless of Ben's title.

He is much proven.

[Nomad]

Ben's not an experienced QB coach? If not, looks to me he is getting OJT while big brother mentors him and his project is named Tebow!! Josh is the experienced QB coach!!

[MadMax]

I don't know anything about Ben, maybe he knows more than his experience would indicate. But if Josh is the "real" QB coach I'm worried about our HC getting spread thin. He says he's the Head coach, and also takes care of the Offensive Coordinator and QB coach duties? I'm hoping for the best but micromanaging and a refusal to delegate start to set off red flags for me.

[Mr D]

Why? Josh McDaniels is probably going to play one of the most important roles in Tebow's development - and being that he probably has a great relationship with his brother, I'm sure the knowledge will be spread easily amongst them.

Seriously though? Why hire a "proven/experienced" QB coach when we have one of the best QB, if not THE best QB coach, as our HC?

I mean SERIOUSLY - could you even name a QB coach before Josh McDaniels was brought to the helm? Jeremy Bates? Even he didn't have the resume equivalent to Ben McDaniels when he was a positional coach.

Let me quote someone from Omane who hit the topic pretty well


That, and being a D1A QB himself, a graduate assistant at a D1A school football program, and spending several years coaching already.

He's got a better resume than Jeremy Bates and Kyle Shanahan had when they where given positional coaching duties. When they both became QB coaches it wasn't under an offensive coordinator who was also a QB coach either.

But I'm sure its all about nepotism.

[Mr D]

I don't know anything about Ben, maybe he knows more than his experience would indicate. But if Josh is the "real" QB coach I'm worried about our HC getting spread thin. He says he's the Head coach, and also takes care of the Offensive Coordinator and QB coach duties? I'm hoping for the best but micromanaging and a refusal to delegate start to set off red flags for me.

Red flags?

You mean the fact that Sean Payton was the HC/OC for the Saints sets red flags for you? Or how about Rex Ryan being the HC/DC for the jets? Does that set any red flags for you?

Ben and Josh are both going to be working with Tim Tebow. To be honest with you, there is anyone to be working with Tim Tebow it would be best for Josh and someone whose he's comfortable sharing his knowledge with.

[TXBRONC]

Ben's not an experienced QB coach? If not, looks to me he is getting OJT while big brother mentors him and his project is named Tebow!! Josh is the experienced QB coach!!

If you're talking about our offensive coordinator he's was the quarterbacks coach at Carolina.

[Mr D]

Oh, and whose to say that Ben doesn't deserve any credit for Orton's performance last season? No one here knows who helped Orton, who contributed - etc...

It's quite obvious that since he's McDaniels brother people are questioning him.

[Lonestar]

Not sure there is a great QB coach oit there to be had at this point.

As for Josh spreading himself to thin. It is not like last year. Then he had to coach the coaches how he wanted things done.

The things like practicing how the team is supposed to enter the staduim on game day and his expectations are DONE the coaches and vets have it and will show the rookies.
Except Tebow that will watch enough film to have figured it out himself. :laugh:

Josh spent a lot of time last year with the QB's. So nothing is changed. Instead of 3 QB's last year having to be taught everything being new now he has Ben to go over the minutea with them

Same goes for all the other coaches except the ones new to Josh and DEN, he will have more time this year. IMO


Sent from my BlackBerry Smartphone provided by Alltel

[Tned]

I don't know anything about Ben, so it's hard to know for sure. I didn't even know he was the QB coach until I read it in a DP article yesterday.

If Ben is not truly qualified for the job, then I think having him as QB coach is a mistake, regardless of whether not Josh is the main influence on Tebow's development. In case anyone forgot, we have three other QBs and will have at least two others (and possibly one on the practice squad) once the season starts.

McDaniels has not done enough to date to justify putting unqualified people in important roles. So, if Ben is not qualified and wouldn't be hired by Washington, NY (you pick which one), Miami, etc., then he shouldn't be the Broncos QB coach.

Once McDaniels has proven himself to be winner and becomes a marketable commodity himself, then he would have more leeway to hire/promote based on nepotism than he currently has.

[Nomad]

If you're talking about our offensive coordinator he's was the quarterbacks coach at Carolina.

I don't know what you are talkng about! I can honestly say I don't know who the OC is for the BRONCOS (unless I look it up). BRONCOS seems to be the team if you want OJT at the pro level it's the place to be!!

[Denver Native (Carol)]

http://www.cantonrep.com/newsnow/x1920336803/Broncos-Ben-McDaniels-new-QBs-coach

Broncos’ Ben McDaniels new QBs coach

ENGLEWOOD, Colo. —

Former McKinley Bulldogs quarterback Ben McDaniels has been promoted to quarterbacks coach of the Denver Broncos, the team announced Saturday.

McDaniels, younger brother of Denver’s Head Coach Josh McDaniels, was an assistant offensive coach for the Broncos this season. He replaced Mike McCoy, who will continue as Denver’s offensive coordinator.

Ben McDaniels, 30, has been a coach for seven years at the NFL, college and high school levels. In addition to his year in Denver and four seasons as a high school coach, McDaniels served as a graduate assistant at the University of Minnesota for two seasons.

http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/news/story?id=3847662

McCoy named offensive coordinator

McCoy, 36, spent the last nine seasons with the Carolina Panthers, where he's worked as offensive assistant, quarterbacks coach and passing game coordinator.

[Lonestar]

Looks to me that we have lots of cooks to make the broth.

At least THREE guys that can spend time teaching 3 vets and ONE rookie what they want them to learn.

When Ben was annouced as QB's coach I saw more as having someone to buddy with like shanny was when he was named QB's coach way back under Reeves.

IIRC he did nothing in the Pros as a QB and only played a limited time @ QB in college before having an organ removed.

Seems to me that Ben meets at least that job standard.

It is not like he will be the ONLY QB qualified coach this year. Not sure if way back mike had this many guys above him, to report to, when he took the job as buffer between John and Dan.

We do not have to have coaches that have 15 years exprience at every spot NICE to have but not a requirement.


Sent from my BlackBerry Smartphone provided by Alltel

[HORSEPOWER 56]

I don't think anybody really believes that Ben is more than a running mate for the QBs. A guy to help them understand nuances about the playbook and be their link to the HC. Just like I don't think that anyone believes McCoy does more than just help line guys up for plays at practice and helps McDaniels develop the plays for the coming week. He surely isn't calling the plays.

McDaniels keeps the offense under a very watchful eye. There's no way that he isn't constantly "coaching" Orton, Quinn, Tebow, and Brandy, anyway.

QBs are his baby. Much like Shanahan who didn't really start releasing the reigns to his assistants until later on, McDaniels has complete control and oversees pretty much everything in the offense.

[Lonestar]

I don't think anybody really believes that Ben is more than a running mate for the QBs. A guy to help them understand nuances about the playbook and be their link to the HC. Just like I don't think that anyone believes McCoy does more than just help line guys up for plays at practice and helps McDaniels develop the plays for the coming week. He surely isn't calling the plays.

McDaniels keeps the offense under a very watchful eye. There's no way that he isn't constantly "coaching" Orton, Quinn, Tebow, and Brandy, anyway.

QBs are his baby. Much like Shanahan who didn't really start releasing the reigns to his assistants until later on, McDaniels has complete control and oversees pretty much everything in the offense.

I agree with much of this post. to believe that Josh will not be heavily involved on the QB area would be foolish at best .

But I believe that Mccoy will be more involved in the game plan and being more hands on the OC duties I'm sure that was the impetus for putting Ben directly in charge/Buffer of the QB's. allowing him more time to do the planning and therefore allowing Josh more time to oversee the whole shebang.

That is not to say that Mc coy will do it all but under the watchful eye of Josh. After all he will be spending more time watching Wink this year to make sure it is going according to Hoyle. That is more time than he did last year watching Nolan.

[Tned]

When Ben was annouced as QB's coach I saw more as having someone to buddy with like shanny was when he was named QB's coach way back under Reeves.

IIRC he did nothing in the Pros as a QB and only played a limited time @ QB in college before having an organ removed.

Seems to me that Ben meets at least that job standard.

Shanahan was not an inexperienced, one kidney'd brother of the head coach, with virtually no experience, who was hired to 'buddy up' to Elway.

Here are Shanahan's coaching stops after his college career ended:

1975 University of Oklahoma
(Offensive Assistant)

1976-1977 Northern Arizona University
(Running Backs Coach)

1978 Eastern Illinois University
(Offensive Coordinator)

1979 University of Minnesota
(Offensive Coordinator)

1980-1983 University of Florida
(Offensive Coordinator)

1984 Denver Broncos
(Wide Receivers Coach)

1985-1987 Denver Broncos
(Offensive Coordinator)

1988-1989 Los Angeles Raiders
(Head Coach)

1989-1991 Denver Broncos
(Quarterbacks Coach)

1992-1994 San Francisco 49ers
(Offensive Coordinator)

1995-2008 Denver Broncos
(Head Coach)

To try and make the case that McDaniels resume/experience up until being named Broncos QB coach is equivalent to Shanahan's resume/experience when being named the Broncos OC (he came back from the Raiders as the QB coach), is simply ridiculous.

[Lonestar]

I agree with much of this post. to believe that Josh will not be heavily involved on the QB area would be foolish at best .

But I believe that Mccoy will be more involved in the game plan and being more hands on the OC duties I'm sure that was the impetus for putting Ben directly in charge/Buffer of the QB's. allowing him more time to do the planning and therefore allowing Josh more time to oversee the whole shebang.

That is not to say that Mc coy will do it all but under the watchful eye of Josh. After all he will be spending more time watching Wink this year to make sure it is going according to Hoyle. That is more time than he did last year watching Nolan.


Once again, you find a way to take a subtle (yes, this really is one of the RARE cases where your shots are subtle) shots at Shanahan.

Shanahan was not an inexperienced, one kidney'd brother of the head coach, with virtually no experience, who was hired to 'buddy up' to Elway.

Here are Shanahan's coaching stops after his college career ended:

1975 University of Oklahoma
(Offensive Assistant)

1976-1977 Northern Arizona University
(Running Backs Coach)

1978 Eastern Illinois University
(Offensive Coordinator)

1979 University of Minnesota
(Offensive Coordinator)

1980-1983 University of Florida
(Offensive Coordinator)

1984 Denver Broncos
(Wide Receivers Coach)

1985-1987 Denver Broncos
(Offensive Coordinator)

1988-1989 Los Angeles Raiders
(Head Coach)

1989-1991 Denver Broncos
(Quarterbacks Coach)

1992-1994 San Francisco 49ers
(Offensive Coordinator)

1995-2008 Denver Broncos
(Head Coach)

To try and make any case that McDaniels resume/experience up until being named Broncos QB coach is equivalent to Shanahan's resume/experienc when being named the Broncos OC (he came back from the Raiders as the QB coach), is simply ridiculous.

While I used the MIKE, JOHN and DAN analogy as simple MIKE was hired to be the buffer between John and Dan becuase of the almost hate relationship between the two. You have to read into it much more than was intended.

Ben has as much Pro coaching experience as mike did when promoted to QB coach or in Mikes case of OC one year of being on a pro team.

It was not meant as a negative like you seemed to take it as a "shots at Shanahan.".

It was a simple analogy of how Ben got promoted.

How you seem to twist everything into the I hate mike is well beyond me.

Thanks for laying out the chronology of mike illustrious career. But I think you forgot some graduate assistant stuff at his alma mater and IIRC the U of Minnesota. but then I could be wrong.

here is wilipedias stuff on mike.


Early career

Shanahan played high school football at East Leyden High School, Franklin Park, Illinois where he played wishbone quarterback. He had the single-game rushing record until 1976 when it was broken by Dennis Cascio. The record is now held by Ricky Emery. Shanahan was an undersized quarterback at Eastern Illinois University in the 1970s before a hard hit on the practice field ruptured one of his kidneys, stopping his heart for thirty seconds and nearly killing him. A priest was summoned to read Shanahan, a Roman Catholic, his last rites.[1]
With his playing career abruptly ended, Shanahan entered coaching. After graduation, he served as an assistant coach at Northern Arizona University and the University of Oklahoma. He then returned to his alma mater as offensive coordinator and helped his school win the Division II football championship. Before making the jump to the NFL, Shanahan worked at the University of Minnesota for a year before heading to Florida in the early 1980s to help establish them as an offensive powerhouse.
[edit]NFL career

Shanahan served as a quarterbacks coach and later offensive coordinator for the Broncos under Dan Reeves in the 1980s and had a brief stint as the head coach of the Los Angeles Raiders in 1988–89. He went 8–12 with the Raiders in less than two seasons before being fired and returning to the Broncos as an offensive assistant again under Reeves. Shanahan was later fired by Reeves after finding himself in the middle of a growing feud between Reeves and quarterback John Elway.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mike_Shanahan#Accomplishments

from a WSJ article.

Shanahan lost a kidney, recovered, petitioned unsuccessfully to rejoin the football team and began his coaching career upon graduation. He took a job as a resident assistant in a dormitory at Oklahoma and ingratiated himself with the football staff, eventually ferrying recruits to and from the airport and analyzing game film. Oklahoma won a national championship his first season there. By age 25, he was the offensive coordinator at his alma mater, which won a Division II championship. He took the same job at Minnesota, then Florida, where he rose to assistant head coach. In 1984, at 31, he joined the Broncos as a receivers coach. A year later, he was the offensive coordinator. The next two years, the Broncos reached (and lost) the Super Bowl. At 35, he was hired as head coach of Oakland.
http://online.wsj.com/article/SB121477975676614277.html.html?mod=sports&mg=com-wsj

Now I know that it is only as good as the information put in to it this was how I remembered his career in DEN.

[TXBRONC]

I don't know what you are talkng about! I can honestly say I don't know who the OC is for the BRONCOS (unless I look it up). BRONCOS seems to be the team if you want OJT at the pro level it's the place to be!!

His name is Mike McCoy and last season he was the offensive coordinator and the quarterbacks coach IIRC. I just went looked up the staff and see Ben McDaniels is the the quarterbacks coach. However I'm reasonable sure he joined the staff last season as assistant but not as an assistant coach.

[Tned]

While I used the MIKE, JOHN and DAN analogy as simple MIKE was hired to be the buffer between John and Dan becuase of the almost hate relationship between the two. You have to read into it much more than was intended.

Ben has as much Pro coaching experience as mike did when promoted to QB coach or in Mikes case of OC one year of being on a pro team.

It was not meant as a negative like you seemed to take it as a "shots at Shanahan.".

It was a simple analogy of how Ben got promoted.

How you seem to twist everything into the I hate mike is well beyond me.

Thanks for laying out the chronology of mike illustrious career. But I think you forgot some graduate assistant stuff at his alma mater and IIRC the U of Minnesota. but then I could be wrong.

here is wilipedias stuff on mike.


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mike_Shanahan#Accomplishments

from a WSJ article.

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB121477975676614277.html.html?mod=sports&mg=com-wsj

Now I know that it is only as good as the information put in to it this was how I remembered his career in DEN.

I had actually removed the "shots at Shanahan" comment very shortly after posting it and almost 10 minutes before this post of yours, but apparently you had already started responding before I edited it out. My comment was completely accurate, but I had decided to remove it, because while it pointed out the habitual bashing and jabs that you take at Shanahan that get very tiresome to read, it provided no real contribution to this thread.

Clearly, you take shots at Shanahan whenever possible, and in this thrad GREATLY diminished his coaching experience prior to coming to the Broncos, and you even mixed up his pre and post Oakland roles, to fit the point you were trying to make ----- Shanahan bad -- McDaniels God's gift to Broncos' fans.

Your hatred for Shanahan temporarily put aside. Do you honestly believe that Ben McDaniels has the same level coaching experience that Shanahan had when he came to the Broncos?

[broncobryce]

There is no way Josh is not holding Tebow's hand through this. If Tebow does not succeed, there is a good chance Josh's job is in huge jeopardy. Josh has to do everything in his power to make sure Tebow makes it big. I don't see him letting little brother or anyone else do the work.

[TXBRONC]

Wikipedia missed more than half of Shanahan's coaching career. He had ton more experience as both a quarterback's coach and as an offensive coordinator.

Ben McDaniels:

Quarterbacks; born June 6, 1980, Barberton, Ohio. Quarterback Kent State 1999-2002. No pro playing experience. College coach: Minnesota 2004-05. Pro coach: Joined Broncos in 2009.

[Lonestar]

I had actually removed the "shots at Shanahan" comment very shortly after posting it and almost 10 minutes before this post of yours, but apparently you had already started responding before I edited it out. My comment was completely accurate, but I had decided to remove it, because while it pointed out the habitual bashing and jabs that you take at Shanahan that get very tiresome to read, it provided no real contribution to this thread.

Clearly, you take shots at Shanahan whenever possible, and in this thrad GREATLY diminished his coaching experience prior to coming to the Broncos, and you even mixed up his pre and post Oakland roles, to fit the point you were trying to make ----- Shanahan bad -- McDaniels God's gift to Broncos' fans.

Your hatred for Shanahan temporarily put aside. Do you honestly believe that Ben McDaniels has the same level coaching experience that Shanahan had when he came to the Broncos?

Who cares if he did or did not have more experience. On the college or pro level.

it is not like he is not LIKE every other coach some where getting OJT. When mike joined the Broncos as QB/WR coach it was not like he was under a Great offensive mind in Dan.

Now say what you will about Josh I think MOST everyone will agree he is a tad more innovative that Dan could every hope to be.

Plus I would say that Mike growing up in a household of an electrician is a bit less football intensive, as growing up a House with dad the football coach. And older brother that as very successful QB in HS, in the hot bed of Football Canton. Just a bit less virtual experience.

Mike is a brilliant offensive mind, much of which he picked up under Walsh in SF. After his stint in DEN as QB coach IIRC

MY only problem with Mike was his ineffectual personnel moves he made as a HC and his almost total lack of regard for anything not OFFENSE. He was GREAT OC in DEN till about two years ago when things got stale.

Hopefully the year off will have allowed him to see that football is a TEAM sport consisting of three distinctive parts, that all have to contribute to being a winning TEAM.

I realize that only some folks see my point of view, I believe that many more will grasp it as the years go by and the luster of two Lombardi's from way back fade as they see a new TEAM win more of them.

You see it as hate, I see it with a clear vision of what could have been. Had he not maxed the cap each year with many failed FA acquisitions, causing dead money.

[Tned]

Who cares if he did or did not have more experience. On the college or pro level.

it is not like he is not LIKE every other coach some where getting OJT. When mike joined the Broncos as QB/WR coach it was not like he was under a Great offensive mind in Dan.

Now say what you will about Josh I think MOST everyone will agree he is a tad more innovative that Dan could every hope to be.

Plus I would say that Mike growing up in a household of an electrician is a bit less football intensive, as growing up a House with dad the football coach. And older brother that as very successful QB in HS, in the hot bed of Football Canton. Just a bit less virtual experience.



Just to be clear, YOU made the comparison Ben being a graduate assistant and high school coach to being just like when Shanahan became QB coach in Denver. The two coaches were nothing like each other, which is what I documented.


Mike is a brilliant offensive mind, much of which he picked up under Walsh in SF. After his stint in DEN as QB coach IIRC

MY only problem with Mike was his ineffectual personnel moves he made as a HC and his almost total lack of regard for anything not OFFENSE. He was GREAT OC in DEN till about two years ago when things got stale.

Hopefully the year off will have allowed him to see that football is a TEAM sport consisting of three distinctive parts, that all have to contribute to being a winning TEAM.

I realize that only some folks see my point of view, I believe that many more will grasp it as the years go by and the luster of two Lombardi's from way back fade as they see a new TEAM win more of them.

You see it as hate, I see it with a clear vision of what could have been. Had he not maxed the cap each year with many failed FA acquisitions, causing dead money.

And we're back.... :tsk:

[Northman]

Isnt Josh a Qb maker? Why would he have to hire a proven guy when that is his speciality? or supposedly his speciality.

[Lonestar]

There is no way Josh is not holding Tebow's hand through this. If Tebow does not succeed, there is a good chance Josh's job is in huge jeopardy. Josh has to do everything in his power to make sure Tebow makes it big. I don't see him letting little brother or anyone else do the work.


I agree that Josh has a vested interest in see that Tebow thrives.

But he is not going ONLY deal with Tebow, Josh is I SUSPECT going to teach both Ben and all of the QB's what he wants done along with Tebow. You can add Mc Coy into that mix also. Then Mc Coy and Ben are going to Practice it with the QB's including Tim until it meets with Joshes satisfaction. Practice, practice, practice While Josh oversees what is going on on DEFENSE.

It has been said by many "experts that Making Tebow into a NFL QB is not going to be a 2 day OTA project but as many as 3 years.

I doubt that he is going to allow anyone to fail if he has anything say about it.

After all Quinn has value as a QB to us IF he can be coached up to be more trade bait IF not Back up to TEBOW in 11 when Orton becomes an UFA.


WHo Knows maybe even TB will draw some picks down the road. Y'all realize that is the end game to develop all of the players as best you can and IF they are not going to contribute in DEN then TRY to get something for them when they leave.

[Tned]

I agree that Josh has a vested interest in see that Tebow thrives.

But he is not going ONLY deal with Tebow, Josh is I SUSPECT going to teach both Ben and all of the QB's what he wants done along with Tebow. You can add Mc Coy into that mix also. Then Mc Coy and Ben are going to Practice it with the QB's including Tim until it meets with Joshes satisfaction. Practice, practice, practice While Josh oversees what is going on on DEFENSE.


Ok, let me get this straight. Josh is going to delegate the development of the offense to his kid brother and McCoy, following a pathetic offensive season, while Josh focuses on the defense??? :confused:

[TXBRONC]

Ok, let me get this straight. Josh is going to delegate the development of the offense to his kid brother and McCoy, following a pathetic offensive season, while Josh focuses on the defense??? :confused:

If that's what McDaniels does he'll end having his ass in crack just like Nolan did in San Francisco.

[OrangeHoof]

To me, this is a no-brainer. Josh cannot wet nurse Tebow and also run the ballclub. Tebow is going to need a MAJOR overhaul to be NFL-ready and the current coaches are going to need to put most of their attention on Orton and Quinn for 2010, both of them also need a great deal of coaching up. McCoy also has to focus on establishing an offense which has lost some key parts.

I think a Tebow Coach will be needed to get the most out of Tebow on the timetable you'd expect of a first-round draft choice. They can't afford to feed Tebow scraps like they did Brandstater. His draft position means there will be a significant financial commitment in making him a starting quarterback by September 2011. They need to get started now and since there's no salary cap on coaches, the Broncos need to sign an experienced guy whose only job is tearing down and rebuilding Tim Tebow.

[Lonestar]

Just to be clear, YOU made the comparison Ben being a graduate assistant and high school coach to being just like when Shanahan became QB coach in Denver. The two coaches were nothing like each other, which is what I documented.



And we're back.... :tsk:


I said WHO cares mike grew up in I'd guess a LESS thatn Football intensive home environment. Ben and Brother grew up living and breathing Football since the age they could walk and help their dad. They were involved in Football at the table

Now I do not know if Mike and his dad got that involved, but frankly it does not matter.

All that matters is Ben is not going to be the buffer between Dan reeves and John. He is not going to be teaching John like Mike did under a less than innovating guy like Dan reeves. What did he teach John in those first years who the hell know as most folks point out Jay had better stats than John did in his first 4 years which would be whle mike was over him acording to you


1984 Denver Broncos
(Wide Receivers Coach)

1985-1987 Denver Broncos
(Offensive Coordinator)


Ben is going to be the QB in DEN with an experienced QB coach and OC he reports to, was well as an Experienced QB and OC and now Head coach.

He is not going to be allowed to teach him BENS way, but the way that Josh wants, while being supervised by the OC and Josh.


Like I said WTH cares what the supposed differences are in their coaching backgrounds are.

If anyone else wants to reply fine. I think I have stated my case.

[Lonestar]

To me, this is a no-brainer. Josh cannot wet nurse Tebow and also run the ballclub. Tebow is going to need a MAJOR overhaul to be NFL-ready and the current coaches are going to need to put most of their attention on Orton and Quinn for 2010, both of them also need a great deal of coaching up. McCoy also has to focus on establishing an offense which has lost some key parts.

I think a Tebow Coach will be needed to get the most out of Tebow on the timetable you'd expect of a first-round draft choice. They can't afford to feed Tebow scraps like they did Brandstater. His draft position means there will be a significant financial commitment in making him a starting quarterback by September 2011. They need to get started now and since there's no salary cap on coaches, the Broncos need to sign an experienced guy whose only job is tearing down and rebuilding Tim Tebow.


There is no one in the NFL that is expecting Tebow to be a NFL ready QB till God knows when .

It is only a few zealot fans that seem to think anyone in the first round HAVE to start day one.

FWIW there has never been Cap on coaching salaries.

OK which coach would you recommend?

[OrangeHoof]

There is no one in the NFL that is expecting Tebow to be a NFL ready QB till God knows when .

It is only a few zealot fans that seem to think anyone in the first round HAVE to start day one.

Read my post again, I said starting by September 2011.

That's the typical gestation time for a QB drafted in the first round (Aaron Rodgers and Matt Leinart notwithstanding). No owner is going to willingly pay first round money to a player and then let him sit around for a few years before he starts.


OK which coach would you recommend?

I honestly don't have a name in mind but there are dozens of quarterback coaches in retirement or semi-retirement who would probably enjoy the challenge of coming in and working with Tebow. Jerry Rhome comes to mind but there are many more like him that are probably younger.

[atwater27]

Should Denver hire a proven/experienced QB coach?

No, but they should have hired a proven/experienced head coach.

[gobroncsnv]

You mean like Whisenhunt (Cardinals) and Tomlin (Steelers)... Neither had experience as a head coach before... If I recall, both did fairly well in their early years...
There's 2 ways to go with this thread. You can say we need experience at this job, and yet some of the most miserable failures at coaching are some of the former head coaches become retreads... There are certainly first time coaches who flail miserably in their first year. There are some who go 8-8 while trying to rebuild a team, pretty much from the wheels up.
You gotta be honest, we didn't have much going the past few years, got to the AFC championship game, and to me, THAT was where Shanny lost his job, NOBODY did well for the Broncos in that game. Went downhill since that game. Steadily.
So Bowlen brings in new blood, just like Gruden got his shot, Tomlin his, Whisenhunt his, etc, etc. I don't think you were hoping Bowlen would have brought in Rich Kotite, even though he did have experience.
So I'm ok with Josh being here.
Now, BACK to the thread, I don't have a problem with Ben being at his position... I am darn sure that i want the QB, HC, OC, and QB coach being on the same page. Much chaos happens when there's any kind of breakdown among that foursome with any team.

[BroncoJoe]

Ben McDaniels is left handed.

[claymore]

Didnt read the whole thread because I am trying to remain positive and this is one of my biggest complaints. :D

I say no to bringing in a proven QB coach.

1. Because it is to late.
2. Because any QB coach that is worth a damn is under contract and would only leave team x to be a OC.

I think both McDaniels brothers are unproven. This is their year to shine. If they suck, hopefully Bowlen drops the hammer fast so Tebow's development doesnt get ****** up.

[Lonestar]

Read my post again, I said starting by September 2011.

That's the typical gestation time for a QB drafted in the first round (Aaron Rodgers and Matt Leinart notwithstanding). No owner is going to willingly pay first round money to a player and then let him sit around for a few years before he starts.



I honestly don't have a name in mind but there are dozens of quarterback coaches in retirement or semi-retirement who would probably enjoy the challenge of coming in and working with Tebow. Jerry Rhome comes to mind but there are many more like him that are probably younger.

When I said zealot fans it was not directed at you in particular. Sorry if you took it that way . There are MAny that do feel that way. I think your probably correct about 11. But will see time this year also.


As for him setting I think Pat knew before they took him it is a LONG term investment and he had to be brought up to speed. ANd YES they would not have Drafted Tebow without Pat agreeing to it.

I'm guessing that Tim gets a 5 year or longer contract with lots of incentives built into it to hasten his arrival. Had he been a 2nd round I believe thy are limited to 4 years.

Jerry Rhome does not do it for me the game has changed a BUNCH since he played.

[GGMoogly]

Hasn't he already been working with experienced coaches? Zeke Bratkowski comes to mind.

[Lonestar]

You mean like Whisenhunt (Cardinals) and Tomlin (Steelers)... Neither had experience as a head coach before... If I recall, both did fairly well in their early years...
There's 2 ways to go with this thread. You can say we need experience at this job, and yet some of the most miserable failures at coaching are some of the former head coaches become retreads... There are certainly first time coaches who flail miserably in their first year. There are some who go 8-8 while trying to rebuild a team, pretty much from the wheels up.
You gotta be honest, we didn't have much going the past few years, got to the AFC championship game, and to me, THAT was where Shanny lost his job, NOBODY did well for the Broncos in that game. Went downhill since that game. Steadily.
So Bowlen brings in new blood, just like Gruden got his shot, Tomlin his, Whisenhunt his, etc, etc. I don't think you were hoping Bowlen would have brought in Rich Kotite, even though he did have experience.
So I'm ok with Josh being here.
Now, BACK to the thread, I don't have a problem with Ben being at his position... I am darn sure that i want the QB, HC, OC, and QB coach being on the same page. Much chaos happens when there's any kind of breakdown among that foursome with any team.


Damned fine post.
The part about them being on the same page. Is a truism if I ever heard one.

[TXBRONC]

Read my post again, I said starting by September 2011.

That's the typical gestation time for a QB drafted in the first round (Aaron Rodgers and Matt Leinart notwithstanding). No owner is going to willingly pay first round money to a player and then let him sit around for a few years before he starts.



I honestly don't have a name in mind but there are dozens of quarterback coaches in retirement or semi-retirement who would probably enjoy the challenge of coming in and working with Tebow. Jerry Rhome comes to mind but there are many more like him that are probably younger.

If Tebow isn't starting within a season maybe two then I would be concerned. Because unlike Green Bay Tebow is not sitting behind a future Hall of Fame quarterback.

[TimTebow15MVP]

Come on dude Josh McDaniels is the QB coach of every QB on tis roster. Ben knows a thing or two im sure if hes anything like hisbrother but josh has a hand on approach with his QBs. hes gonna spend as much time as the qb coach does with the QB.

And as others have said hes proven enough working with QBs

[TXBRONC]

Come on dude Josh McDaniels is the QB coach of every QB on tis roster. Ben knows a thing or two im sure if hes anything like hisbrother but josh has a hand on approach with his QBs. hes gonna spend as much time as the qb coach does with the QB.

And as others have said hes proven enough working with QBs

I don't think it's necessarily a good thing to have to much of hands on approach. It's important for him oversee but he has o.c. who is an experienced quarterbacks coach and his kid brother. let do what he pays them to do.

[gobroncsnv]

So does anyone on here think that Shanny is going to stay out of how the Redskins work with McNabb? Norv Turner leaves it all up to his position coaches? I mean, C'MON already!!! These guys have position coaches in place to work with QB's, but they keep a REALLY close eye on the process because they know just where, how, and by who the bread gets buttered. I'm thinking that what's going on here in Denver is fairly typical. There aren't many head coaches in the league who would be willing to just hope for the best, and stay hands off. They stay pretty involved.

[Elevation inc]

no.....not needed at all....if anyone can coach up tebow its MCD....now its just a matter of if tebow takes the coaching well....

[LTC Pain]

no.....not needed at all....if anyone can coach up tebow its MCD....now its just a matter of if tebow takes the coaching well....

What Elevation said.

[Ravage!!!]

You mean like Whisenhunt (Cardinals) and Tomlin (Steelers)... Neither had experience as a head coach before... If I recall, both did fairly well in their early years...



What did these two coaches have in place when taking over the team? The most important position on the field. Wisenhunt had and succeeded with Warner, and Tomlin had Rothlesburger.

[Ravage!!!]

If Tebow isn't starting within a season maybe two then I would be concerned. Because unlike Green Bay Tebow is not sitting behind a future Hall of Fame quarterback.

I would bet a pretty high stake on Tebow playing in week one, and by mid-season...he's starting for the Broncos. No way we use that many picks on Tebow to have him simply "watch" from the bench and only getting in on a few plays.

Tebow starts before this season is over....easily.

[KyleOrtonArmySoldier#128]

Too bad we didn't draft Clausen.

[TiminatorTebow]

I think Tebow starts in week 1. It can't be to hard to beat out Orton and Quinn when Tebow already knows over half the offense and can run the whole playbook with his arm strength.

[Lonestar]

There is a huge diiference in KNOWING the playbook and being able to develope the timing needed to make it work, as well as dealing with the speed of play in the NFL, the length of the season and last but not least reading the depth of deception of the defenses in the NFL.

I have faith that he is the long term answer for the replacement og the DUKE in DEN. But to rush his rise to starter will ulTIMatly hurt the team as well as his delevopement long term.

I'm hoping that Josh will limit his play this year, allow him to get some exprience while seeing the game from the sidelines and in the film room. Thus prepping him for full time day one 11.

I also think unless the playbook and play calling does not change to favor a more mobile (read a scrambling QB) orton is going to be hard to unseat. That is IF the oline does not crash and burn when Clady does not make an entrance til after he comes off the PUP list after the season starts.

If given the time and a better running game KO will be playing lites out in his contract year auditioning for his next team.

Now if the the OL is for crap the Tebonator may be the answer to put the defenses off guard.

Let's hope the upgraded OL will jell quickly.


Sent from my BlackBerry Smartphone provided by Alltel.

[OrangeHoof]

I wouldn't be surprised at all to see Tebow in some wildcat formations and gimmick plays this fall but he's not going to be starting from the get-go. I can see him starting this fall once its clear we have no playoff chance left. But as for starting a game this year that means anything? Only if the injury bug strikes Orton and Quinn.

[TimTebow15MVP]

I don't think it's necessarily a good thing to have to much of hands on approach. It's important for him oversee but he has o.c. who is an experienced quarterbacks coach and his kid brother. let do what he pays them to do.

but josh mcdaniels is the offensive coordinator. he calls the plays on gameday... he has to have a one on one relationship with the QB

[gobroncsnv]

What did these two coaches have in place when taking over the team? The most important position on the field. Wisenhunt had and succeeded with Warner, and Tomlin had Rothlesburger.

Agreed that Tomlin had a decent team in place with Pitt, but I don't think the Cards could have held a candle to anything prior to Whisenhunt being there. And keeping in mind that you're responding about my response to our head coach's lack of experience in his job, Josh had Brady (I guess he's ok), and did a pretty fine job with Cassel. Based on where others have come from, Josh had similar measures of success, and was deserving of a shot at a head coach spot as much as the other 2, if you are looking at their success in their respective coordinator roles.

[TXBRONC]

but josh mcdaniels is the offensive coordinator. he calls the plays on gameday... he has to have a one on one relationship with the QB

No he's not offensive coordinator. Mike McCoy is the offensive coordinator. If he micromanages it can be a problem.

[Bosco]

We have...

Josh McDaniels - Made his bones working with Brady and Cassel.

Mike McCoy - Spent years coaching QB's in Carolina with some notable success.

Ben McDaniels - Played QB at the college and high school levels.

I think we pretty much got it covered.

[Bosco]

No he's not offensive coordinator. Mike McCoy is the offensive coordinator. If he micromanages it can be a problem.

McCoy is the offensive coordinator in title, but he's really just McDaniels' highly qualified wingman. Josh is very involved with the game-planning and calls all the offensive plays.

[TXBRONC]

McCoy is the offensive coordinator in title, but he's really just McDaniels' highly qualified wingman. Josh is very involved with the game-planning and calls all the offensive plays.

Apparently you didn't follow the conversation. I responsed to a post that stated we do not have offensive coordinator. Fact is we do. And nowhere did I even suggest that McDaniels isn't very involved the game planning nor did I say he doesn't call playing. I already knew that because I watched his introductory news conference where he said that very thing.

[Bosco]

Apparently you didn't follow the conversation. I responsed to a post that stated we do not have offensive coordinator. Fact is we do. And nowhere did I even suggest that McDaniels isn't very involved the game planning nor did I say he doesn't call playing. I already knew that because I watched his introductory news conference where he said that very thing.

And I was clarifying your point. Glad to see you already knew that though.