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WARHORSE
05-05-2008, 08:53 AM
Good video review of the draft. Talks about a few issues we have discussed here.

http://cbs4denver.com/video/?cid=97

Click the vid titled 'Lombardi, Miller, Legwold Review Broncos Draft'


I thought it was interesting, for all those who would place the draft success of the past few years on Sundquists plate, that Legwold stated that it is Goodman who Shanahan leans on for player evaluation and information on draft day.

lex
05-05-2008, 09:38 AM
Theres a famous Churchhill quote: "Never hold discussions with the monkey when the organ grinder is in the room." The whole Goodman/Sundquist situation had that sort of feel all over it. It confirms what I, among many, have speculated for a long time. It was just too much of a coincidence that we suddenly started taking guys in Goodmans region. Not to mention, that Sundquist has been with the organization for a lot of bad drafts meaning that it would make more sense it was someone other than Sundquist.

Lonestar
05-05-2008, 12:18 PM
Good video review of the draft. Talks about a few issues we have discussed here.

http://cbs4denver.com/video/?cid=97

Click the vid titled 'Lombardi, Miller, Legwold Review Broncos Draft'


I thought it was interesting, for all those who would place the draft success of the past few years on Sundquists plate, that Legwold stated that it is Goodman who Shanahan leans on for player evaluation and information on draft day.

Perhaps but I still feel that Dinger had a lot to do with Jay being the choice two years ago. While Goodman may have scouted in that area Dinger lived in his hometown while he was at Vandy.. Dinger and mikey go back alot farther than Goodman does..

BTW what do you expect them to say he fired the guy he was closet to and depended upon.

I have never thought that TED carried much water in DEN other that coffee. I know he had good contacts with other GM's. But I know that no major decisions are made in that FO without mikey calling the play..

Lonestar
05-05-2008, 12:19 PM
Theres a famous Churchhill quote: "Never hold discussions with the monkey when the organ grinder is in the room." The whole Goodman/Sundquist situation had that sort of feel all over it. It confirms what I, among many, have speculated for a long time. It was just too much of a coincidence that we suddenly started taking guys in Goodmans region. Not to mention, that Sundquist has been with the organization for a lot of bad drafts meaning that it would make more sense it was someone other than Sundquist.

yet this year seemed to be PAC-10 time..

lex
05-05-2008, 12:41 PM
yet this year seemed to be PAC-10 time..

True, although we did take 2 Va Tech guys. Maybe it will be spread out more since Goodmans sector of fire is broader now and not just one region of the country.

MOtorboat
05-05-2008, 01:04 PM
True, although we did take 2 Va Tech guys. Maybe it will be spread out more since Goodmans sector of fire is broader now and not just one region of the country.

...two MAC guys, a WAC guy and an SEC guy...

lex
05-05-2008, 01:23 PM
...two MAC guys, a WAC guy and an SEC guy...

Im not sure what youre getting at.

MOtorboat
05-05-2008, 01:33 PM
Im not sure what youre getting at.

That we drafted guys from all over...

lex
05-05-2008, 01:48 PM
That we drafted guys from all over...

Over the last 3 years: Jay Cutler, Brandon Marshall, Elvis Dumervil, Jarvis Moss, Marcus Thomas, Tim Crowder (?), Eddie Royal, Carlton Powell, Peyton Hillis.

I realize there were others who had input on some of these guys, namely Jay, but still, its apparent that Goodman has had Shanahans ear...and the fact that it was more spread around this year might actually reflect that Goodman is now researching more guys throughout the country since he is no longer responsible for a specific region.

BeefStew25
05-05-2008, 01:56 PM
I actually think Jeff Fisher was our contact in regards to drafting Cutty. He wanted him also, but Bud made him draft VY.

NameUsedBefore
05-05-2008, 02:45 PM
I actually think Jeff Fisher was our contact in regards to drafting Cutty. He wanted him also, but Bud made him draft VY.

I know that has to be really killing Fisher on the inside because he really wanted Cutler but the OC got the call (and then he got fired, IIRC, leaving Fisher with a guy he didn't want).

NightTrainLayne
05-05-2008, 02:53 PM
I know that has to be really killing Fisher on the inside because he really wanted Cutler but the OC got the call (and then he got fired, IIRC, leaving Fisher with a guy he didn't want).

My impression was that Fisher loved VY too, but was also high on JC. I don't get the feeling from Fisher's comments that he feels like they made a mistake. I think he still likes Young's overall athletic ability.

Requiem / The Dagda
05-05-2008, 02:58 PM
So many fun conspiracy theories out their regarding the players we select and where we scout. . . *whistles*

lex
05-05-2008, 03:01 PM
So many fun conspiracy theories out their regarding the players we select and where we scout. . . *whistles*

Who's conspiring?

Requiem / The Dagda
05-05-2008, 03:02 PM
Who's conspiring?

There seems to be a lot of dart throwing in regards to the Broncos scouts and the emphasis they place on certain conferences, etc.

NameUsedBefore
05-05-2008, 03:07 PM
My impression was that Fisher loved VY too, but was also high on JC. I don't get the feeling from Fisher's comments that he feels like they made a mistake. I think he still likes Young's overall athletic ability.

That or what my friends like to call "buyer's delusion" where you pay a pretty penny for something but it obviously sucks, but since you paid a lot to get it you delude yourself into believing the product is still sound and was worth the purchase (until the delusion falls to ridicule by your peers). It's amusing and IMO Fisher's got the BD.

lex
05-05-2008, 03:08 PM
There seems to be a lot of dart throwing in regards to the Broncos scouts and the emphasis they place on certain conferences, etc.

Its really far from unreasonable.

NightTrainLayne
05-05-2008, 03:18 PM
That or what my friends like to call "buyer's delusion" where you pay a pretty penny for something but it obviously sucks, but since you paid a lot to get it you delude yourself into believing the product is still sound and was worth the purchase (until the delusion falls to ridicule by your peers). It's amusing and IMO Fisher's got the BD.

I think it's hard for us to be objective. I tend to agree with what you are saying, but I am highly biased.

I imagine that if you asked fans of any other teams besides the Broncos or Titans, or even ask the National Pundits, and I think the majority would pick Young over Cutler.

Of course, those that did would be horribly wrong, :D but for now I still think Young wins that battle. In 5 years it will be obvious (I hope) that Cutler was the right choice to all those ne'er-do-wells.

Simple Jaded
05-05-2008, 06:34 PM
Of course he was...:cool:...

TXBRONC
05-05-2008, 07:44 PM
That or what my friends like to call "buyer's delusion" where you pay a pretty penny for something but it obviously sucks, but since you paid a lot to get it you delude yourself into believing the product is still sound and was worth the purchase (until the delusion falls to ridicule by your peers). It's amusing and IMO Fisher's got the BD.

I think its more like this was Bud Adams' pick and not Fishers'.

WARHORSE
05-05-2008, 08:23 PM
Perhaps but I still feel that Dinger had a lot to do with Jay being the choice two years ago. While Goodman may have scouted in that area Dinger lived in his hometown while he was at Vandy.. Dinger and mikey go back alot farther than Goodman does..

BTW what do you expect them to say he fired the guy he was closet to and depended upon.

I have never thought that TED carried much water in DEN other that coffee. I know he had good contacts with other GM's. But I know that no major decisions are made in that FO without mikey calling the play..

To me, the Cutler pick had SHanahan written all over it. The super secrecy, the talk with Coach Jeff, a gameplan that was getting shorter and shorter with teams learning to take the bootleg away from Cutler and force him to go down field in futility, not to mention Cutlers huge arm, toughness and mobility. Do I think that Dinger backed up that plan? Of course. Hes a passing guru not a run monger.

Well, since theyre journalists, I would think they speak what they think or know.

WARHORSE
05-05-2008, 08:25 PM
I know that has to be really killing Fisher on the inside because he really wanted Cutler but the OC got the call (and then he got fired, IIRC, leaving Fisher with a guy he didn't want).

The OC? Chow wanted Leinhart. Leinhart already knew his system.
Its no secret.

WARHORSE
05-05-2008, 08:28 PM
My impression was that Fisher loved VY too, but was also high on JC. I don't get the feeling from Fisher's comments that he feels like they made a mistake. I think he still likes Young's overall athletic ability.

Yeah, but they know they made a mistake. Vince was a very charismatic leader in Texas. The team drew to him like white on rice. But in the pros, the veterans are going to say, 'walk the walk.......then.....talk the talk.'
Vince is getting insecure imo. I never knew him to be an excuse maker in college, but the excuses for his passing have been flowing freely.

WARHORSE
05-05-2008, 08:31 PM
There seems to be a lot of dart throwing in regards to the Broncos scouts and the emphasis they place on certain conferences, etc.


During the offseason, the dart throwing grows to a nice crescendo, while fans hone their football rappin skills................its a part of the life cycle of fans.:confused:

TXBRONC
05-05-2008, 08:41 PM
To me, the Cutler pick had SHanahan written all over it. The super secrecy, the talk with Coach Jeff, a gameplan that was getting shorter and shorter with teams learning to take the bootleg away from Cutler and force him to go down field in futility, not to mention Cutlers huge arm, toughness and mobility. Do I think that Dinger backed up that plan? Of course. Hes a passing guru not a run monger.

Well, since theyre journalists, I would think they speak what they think or know.


Considering that the team had just come off of 13-3 season, a division title, and an appearance in the AFCCG, oh yeah this was Shanahan's pick.

It's kind of funny just three years ago Jr criticized Shanahan for picking Cutler. Now all of the sudden it wasn't Shanahan's pick rather the credit belongs to Dinger. That's laughable.

Scarface
05-06-2008, 07:38 AM
Cutler was Shanny's pick all the way. I don't think he gave a crap what Dinger or anyone else thought he was going to take Cutler.

WARHORSE
05-06-2008, 12:07 PM
Cutler was Shanny's pick all the way. I don't think he gave a crap what Dinger or anyone else thought he was going to take Cutler.


Yerp.

Tru dat.:salute:

Stargazer
05-06-2008, 11:44 PM
The OC? Chow wanted Leinhart. Leinhart already knew his system.
Its no secret.

Yeah, that is what I remember. And I'm sure Chow would'n't have had a big problem with the selection of Cutler.

Now Young, that's an entirely different ballgame when it comes to QB's compared to the other 2.

I'd like to see a college give Norm Chow the HC position. The man deserves a shot at the job. But, he's getting old and probably will never get the chance.

Stargazer
05-07-2008, 12:03 AM
Perhaps but I still feel that Dinger had a lot to do with ay being the choice two years ago.

You can believe what you want, but I will disagree. It's not like Mike was popping popcorn on Saturdays watching college football. And then on Sunday running the Titans offense. In 2005 Mike was in NY running their offense. I've heard it one too many times from HC's who don't know a damn thing of what is going on in the college level during the season, especially in their own town. Sure, they will read that the local college team is doing well. But, their too focused on their current job. And I've heard the same thing from DC/OC's.

Cugel
05-07-2008, 02:33 PM
You can believe what you want, but I will disagree. It's not like Mike was popping popcorn on Saturdays watching college football. And then on Sunday running the Titans offense. In 2005 Mike was in NY running their offense. I've heard it one too many times from HC's who don't know a damn thing of what is going on in the college level during the season, especially in their own town. Sure, they will read that the local college team is doing well. But, their too focused on their current job. And I've heard the same thing from DC/OC's.
Shanahan basically said exactly that in response to implied criticism that he was the puppet master behind all the little puppets during the draft. His excuse was that he is forced to rely on the opinions of others since he's far too busy running the organization to scout college football.

Sure, he has his decisions, but how can he come to know all these hundreds of college players the way that the scouts do, traveling all year and visiting every podunk college to see some guy and get a feel for what he's like.

My take on all this is that they should have fired Ted Sundquist years ago and hired a real GM. Since Shanahan would never permit that, probably the next best thing is to promote some scouts to Assistant GM as they have done, and have Shanahan take their advice.

Notice that this solves a couple of problems.

1. How do you get someone who knows how to really evaluate talent for the NFL, when you can't give this guy autonomy with Shanahan standing right there looking over the guy's shoulders all the time?

No top-notch GM wants to come to Denver because they would have ZERO real power.

2. But, a scout who gets promoted to GM is happy. He's just gotten a big raise. He doesn't mind not having ultimate authority over personnel decisions because he's never had that. He can just give good advice and not worry about the financial decisions regarding player contracts and the like that a GM normally handles.

The Broncos have a "cap-ologist" to handle the salary cap issues, and a guy to negotiate player contracts. And, in addition, they have their scouts.

So, Denver divides up all the responsibilities that normally fall under one GM.

If Shanahan trusts and relies upon his scouts and they are any good, this system could work out.

At the very least, it's the best that Denver can do so long as Shanahan keeps demanding total control over the organization. It all depends for efficiency on Shanahan NOT going off on a tangent and insisting on reaching for some player he likes over and against the advice of his scouting department. If he can remain self-disciplined in the draft for the next few years, he can repair the talent deficit between the Broncos and the elite AFC teams like the Chargers, Steelers, Patriots and Colts.

The last 2 drafts have been very good steps in that direction. Regardless of how this draft turns out, the Broncos had a game plan, and remained focused and disciplined in executing it. They got players in almost every area of need and didn't reach badly for anybody (no obvious Darius Watts or Terry Pierce selections).

You can criticize Eddie Royal and think that he won't be worth the 2nd round pick, but if he's the returner they hope he is, then he was worth the pick. If not, then probably a lot of other teams were wrong in evaluating him too, because he probably would have been a 2nd round pick regardless of whether Denver drafted him or not.

Overall, Denver is seemingly more disciplined in drafting the last 2 years. Hopefully this represents the rise of Goodman inside the organization and the decline of Ted Sundquist's authority. We all have to hope so.

Ziggy
05-07-2008, 02:38 PM
I agree with everything you said Cugel, other than the fact that the Broncos have actually been on the upswing in the draft for 3 years, some would even argue 4.

Lonestar
05-07-2008, 02:59 PM
Shanahan basically said exactly that in response to implied criticism that he was the puppet master behind all the little puppets during the draft. His excuse was that he is forced to rely on the opinions of others since he's far too busy running the organization to scout college football.

Sure, he has his decisions, but how can he come to know all these hundreds of college players the way that the scouts do, traveling all year and visiting every podunk college to see some guy and get a feel for what he's like.

My take on all this is that they should have fired Ted Sundquist years ago and hired a real GM. Since Shanahan would never permit that, probably the next best thing is to promote some scouts to Assistant GM as they have done, and have Shanahan take their advice.

Notice that this solves a couple of problems.

1. How do you get someone who knows how to really evaluate talent for the NFL, when you can't give this guy autonomy with Shanahan standing right there looking over the guy's shoulders all the time?

No top-notch GM wants to come to Denver because they would have ZERO real power.

2. But, a scout who gets promoted to GM is happy. He's just gotten a big raise. He doesn't mind not having ultimate authority over personnel decisions because he's never had that. He can just give good advice and not worry about the financial decisions regarding player contracts and the like that a GM normally handles.

The Broncos have a "cap-ologist" to handle the salary cap issues, and a guy to negotiate player contracts. And, in addition, they have their scouts.

So, Denver divides up all the responsibilities that normally fall under one GM.

If Shanahan trusts and relies upon his scouts and they are any good, this system could work out.

At the very least, it's the best that Denver can do so long as Shanahan keeps demanding total control over the organization. It all depends for efficiency on Shanahan NOT going off on a tangent and insisting on reaching for some player he likes over and against the advice of his scouting department. If he can remain self-disciplined in the draft for the next few years, he can repair the talent deficit between the Broncos and the elite AFC teams like the Chargers, Steelers, Patriots and Colts.

The last 2 drafts have been very good steps in that direction. Regardless of how this draft turns out, the Broncos had a game plan, and remained focused and disciplined in executing it. They got players in almost every area of need and didn't reach badly for anybody (no obvious Darius Watts or Terry Pierce selections).

You can criticize Eddie Royal and think that he won't be worth the 2nd round pick, but if he's the returner they hope he is, then he was worth the pick. If not, then probably a lot of other teams were wrong in evaluating him too, because he probably would have been a 2nd round pick regardless of whether Denver drafted him or not.

Overall, Denver is seemingly more disciplined in drafting the last 2 years. Hopefully this represents the rise of Goodman inside the organization and the decline of Ted Sundquist's authority. We all have to hope so.

I for one never saw that Ted did anything but mikeys bidding.. IMO he had not power and very little influence on the direction of the team.. When his usefulness was over he was cut.. Or the other scenario was mikey saw his influence with Pat being undermined by Ted..
Ted was as respected GM (in name only) in the NFL.. learned alot at Mikeys knee learned the trade but was never the real power in DEN..

I think the reasoning we got religion in the war room was Pat was tired of playing through the nose for players that did not contribute or head case FA's. This year the ultimatum came down NO MORE big name FA's we are going to rebuild this teams via the draft.. That was not mikeys idea that was implanted in his skull by Pat, that you can take to the bank. mikey has run amok for nearly a decade dabbling in the FA market trying to find those "one or two players away from the Superbowl" ..

But your description of promoting and using more yes men reporting to mikey is spot on..

Ziggy
05-07-2008, 03:01 PM
Hopefully the new yes men scout the right folks, and give Shanny the right names to choose from.

Lonestar
05-07-2008, 03:09 PM
Hopefully the new yes men scout the right folks, and give Shanny the right names to choose from.


I think they have always given mikey the right guys.. How else could we have done so well in UDFA's or in FA's..

I think mikeys either listened to the position coach to much or saw something int eh film room that made them HAVE to have the player usually 2 rounds to early.. (kid on Christmas morning syndrome, I want this toy NOW)

Not having a clear ranking of players and taking them before it was time to do so....

This is something the great GM'S do know the talent on the team, know the needs of the team, prioritizing the college players as ranked by scouts viewing the players, the combine, and private workouts and visits..

haroldthebarrel
05-07-2008, 03:12 PM
Shanahan basically said exactly that in response to implied criticism that he was the puppet master behind all the little puppets during the draft. His excuse was that he is forced to rely on the opinions of others since he's far too busy running the organization to scout college football.

Sure, he has his decisions, but how can he come to know all these hundreds of college players the way that the scouts do, traveling all year and visiting every podunk college to see some guy and get a feel for what he's like.

My take on all this is that they should have fired Ted Sundquist years ago and hired a real GM. Since Shanahan would never permit that, probably the next best thing is to promote some scouts to Assistant GM as they have done, and have Shanahan take their advice.

Notice that this solves a couple of problems.

1. How do you get someone who knows how to really evaluate talent for the NFL, when you can't give this guy autonomy with Shanahan standing right there looking over the guy's shoulders all the time?

No top-notch GM wants to come to Denver because they would have ZERO real power.

2. But, a scout who gets promoted to GM is happy. He's just gotten a big raise. He doesn't mind not having ultimate authority over personnel decisions because he's never had that. He can just give good advice and not worry about the financial decisions regarding player contracts and the like that a GM normally handles.

The Broncos have a "cap-ologist" to handle the salary cap issues, and a guy to negotiate player contracts. And, in addition, they have their scouts.

So, Denver divides up all the responsibilities that normally fall under one GM.

If Shanahan trusts and relies upon his scouts and they are any good, this system could work out.

At the very least, it's the best that Denver can do so long as Shanahan keeps demanding total control over the organization. It all depends for efficiency on Shanahan NOT going off on a tangent and insisting on reaching for some player he likes over and against the advice of his scouting department. If he can remain self-disciplined in the draft for the next few years, he can repair the talent deficit between the Broncos and the elite AFC teams like the Chargers, Steelers, Patriots and Colts.

The last 2 drafts have been very good steps in that direction. Regardless of how this draft turns out, the Broncos had a game plan, and remained focused and disciplined in executing it. They got players in almost every area of need and didn't reach badly for anybody (no obvious Darius Watts or Terry Pierce selections).

You can criticize Eddie Royal and think that he won't be worth the 2nd round pick, but if he's the returner they hope he is, then he was worth the pick. If not, then probably a lot of other teams were wrong in evaluating him too, because he probably would have been a 2nd round pick regardless of whether Denver drafted him or not.

Overall, Denver is seemingly more disciplined in drafting the last 2 years. Hopefully this represents the rise of Goodman inside the organization and the decline of Ted Sundquist's authority. We all have to hope so.

Great post

I will say that knowing how the run on receiver started in the second round I dont think Royal would have been there in the third in a trade down.
I hated the pick at first, and I am still not sold on him as we could have had Laws or Connor but it wasnt a bad pick as far as need.

Secondly the Pierce pick wasnt a reach. he was projected to go in the second.

Other than that a great post, and another good reason to get rid of swedes with overgrown egos. (the ones with norwegian ancestry should know how we think of swedes:))

Ziggy
05-07-2008, 03:14 PM
I also like the fact that the Broncos are bringing in players that they actually might draft now to see them in person, work them out, get a feel for thier game smarts, and give them physicals. I hope we're done taking first rounders that we have never seen just so that another team won't guess who we might take in the draft.

Cugel
05-07-2008, 06:42 PM
I think they have always given mikey the right guys.. How else could we have done so well in UDFA's or in FA's..

I think mikeys either listened to the position coach to much or saw something int eh film room that made them HAVE to have the player usually 2 rounds to early.. (kid on Christmas morning syndrome, I want this toy NOW)

Not having a clear ranking of players and taking them before it was time to do so....

This is something the great GM'S do know the talent on the team, know the needs of the team, prioritizing the college players as ranked by scouts viewing the players, the combine, and private workouts and visits..

I don't see how it follows at all that if the Broncos can analyze FAs and undrafted players they should be able to properly project talent in the draft. The two have little to do with each other.

FAs are easy to evaluate because they have a track record in the NFL. About the only thing to consider is how they would fit into the scheme and player mix already on the team. Well, Shanahan himself knows as much about this as anybody. He sees many of these players in person, and hears about the rest -- all those hours of breaking down game film assure that.

But, he can't look at college players -- he has to rely on his scouts and Assistant GM to advise him. Well, everybody in the NFL respected Ted Sundquist as a trade partner, but nobody has ever thought that he was an especially astute judge of talent.

The proof of the pudding is in the eating. Where are all the teams lined up to offer him a job? None that I can see. :coffee:

He was NEVER a very good GM. You can blame Shanahan for all the horrible drafts, especially between 2001-05, but he certainly wasn't the only culprit.

My point was that as long as Shanahan stays in Denver he's going to have total control over the team. That means the best that can happen is to promote some talent from within the organization so that the new Assistant GM will be glad of a job and not try to exert control over Shanahan's turf -- which will only cause Shanahan to fire him.

As for talent evaluation, a long-term scout knows that inside and out. Many GMs were formerly team scouts, Ted Sundquist was one himself. IF Shanahan will trust his scouting department and draft who they recommend, then that's about the best that can be hoped for.

In that case the Broncos can continue to act in a disciplined manner and not reach for talent. If that continues for 2 or 3 more years with solid drafts -- by which I mean getting useful players in the later rounds, then Denver will have the depth of talent to compete with the other elite AFC teams.

TXBRONC
05-07-2008, 08:04 PM
I also like the fact that the Broncos are bringing in players that they actually might draft now to see them in person, work them out, get a feel for thier game smarts, and give them physicals. I hope we're done taking first rounders that we have never seen just so that another team won't guess who we might take in the draft.

Part of that boldness of bringing in potential draftees may have been due to the fact that we had the 12th overall pick in the draft.

Lonestar
05-08-2008, 12:36 AM
I don't see how it follows at all that if the Broncos can analyze FAs and undrafted players they should be able to properly project talent in the draft. The two have little to do with each other.

FAs are easy to evaluate because they have a track record in the NFL. About the only thing to consider is how they would fit into the scheme and player mix already on the team. Well, Shanahan himself knows as much about this as anybody. He sees many of these players in person, and hears about the rest -- all those hours of breaking down game film assure that.

But, he can't look at college players -- he has to rely on his scouts and Assistant GM to advise him. Well, everybody in the NFL respected Ted Sundquist as a trade partner, but nobody has ever thought that he was an especially astute judge of talent.

The proof of the pudding is in the eating. Where are all the teams lined up to offer him a job? None that I can see. :coffee:

He was NEVER a very good GM. You can blame Shanahan for all the horrible drafts, especially between 2001-05, but he certainly wasn't the only culprit.

My point was that as long as Shanahan stays in Denver he's going to have total control over the team. That means the best that can happen is to promote some talent from within the organization so that the new Assistant GM will be glad of a job and not try to exert control over Shanahan's turf -- which will only cause Shanahan to fire him.

As for talent evaluation, a long-term scout knows that inside and out. Many GMs were formerly team scouts, Ted Sundquist was one himself. IF Shanahan will trust his scouting department and draft who they recommend, then that's about the best that can be hoped for.

In that case the Broncos can continue to act in a disciplined manner and not reach for talent. If that continues for 2 or 3 more years with solid drafts -- by which I mean getting useful players in the later rounds, then Denver will have the depth of talent to compete with the other elite AFC teams.


Fair enough post but we still have had a lot of UDFA that the scouting department had to have seen.. some good some PS and some TC fodder..

Time will tell about Ted getting another job in the NFL it is not like he was on the market during the time teams were looking to hire one.. Two weeks or so before the draft is not prime time to be hired..

your correct about mikey not giving up that control over personnel but his hand may be forced over the next few years if he does not come out smelling like a rose with this years choices. IMO Pat lowered the boom this year.. Gave mikey all the rope he needs to hang himself with.. not many more scapegoats on the payroll anymore..

Kaylore
05-08-2008, 12:22 PM
I know that has to be really killing Fisher on the inside because he really wanted Cutler but the OC got the call (and then he got fired, IIRC, leaving Fisher with a guy he didn't want).

No Chow wanted Leinert because he coached him at USC. The GM thought Young was the way to go.

elsid13
05-09-2008, 06:54 PM
this is what some of the mane insiders (a proven sources) kinda eluded to in public at begin of last season. I think people would be surprised how messed up the GM was.