Eight Belles (Lets see how long it takes the media

[Superchop 7]

They want to blame the jockey ?

Yeah right.

Look, there are tricks to racing a horse.

To increase stride they mess with the hooves.

Creating an imbalance on the pastern.

I haven't seen a single news article that has it right.

Just thought you should know.

LOOK AT THE GEOMETRY !!!!

[Kapaibro]

The fact is that horses are incredibly delicate creatures.

The ankle is about the thickness of a womans wrist. All that weight impacting through a joint that size.

More horses die from broken limbs whilst in their paddock, doing stupid things on their own, than they ever do during races.

[BeefStew25]

Did Barbaro finally kick the bucket?

[Kapaibro]

Did Barbaro finally kick the bucket?

Barbaro was euthanised in January of last year.

He developed laminitis in his front hooves. This happens because the horse is placing excess weight on the uninjured hoof.

The advances made in treating Barbaro will help many horses worldwide.

[Superchop 7]

Kapi,

If you increase the length of the front of the hoof and decrease the back, it creates a longer stride.

It also puts the weight on the ankle, not the hoof.

If that horse had balanced hooves, one "may" have broken, but not two.

[Kapaibro]

Kapi,

If you increase the length of the front of the hoof and decrease the back, it creates a longer stride.

It also puts the weight on the ankle, not the hoof.

If that horse had balanced hooves, one "may" have broken, but not two.

I am well aware of the tricks used to increase a horses stride.

I have been around racehorses my whole life, worked in stables, and my parents breed and train horses too.

The fact remains that 95% of broken limbs occur off the track because the horse is being silly in the paddock.

A horse is an incredible contradiction in biological engineering. The body weight is supported by such thin legs in ratio to the body.

[MOtorboat]

What does the media have anything to do with this?

[claymore]

What does the media have anything to do with this?

This is your chance to break the story MB. :coffee:

[BeefStew25]

What does the media have anything to do with this?

Because generally when something non-bland is reported, the media types have no idea what they are talking about. Mostly TV people is what I am referring to.

[BigDaddyBronco]

PETA already jumped in and wanted to ban the rider until an "investigation" is done.

Like anyone wanted to destroy such an expensive animal on purpose. :tsk:

[claymore]

Because generally when something non-bland is reported, the media types have no idea what they are talking about. Mostly TV people is what I am referring to.I blame the small town newspaper type's. They never break a relevent story such as this. JMHO.

[BeefStew25]

I blame the small town newspaper type's. They never break a relevent story such as this. JMHO.

Yes, I call it Little Fish Littler Pond Syndrome.

[claymore]

Yes, I call it Little Fish Littler Pond Syndrome.They get so caught up in "Dragon" girls basketball that they forget about the big things. Perfect term for this to.

[BeefStew25]

Getting back on topic, I will state at the risk of getting vilified, at the end of the day, they are just horses. I am not going to lose sleep over a horse turning an ankle. There are plenty of humans that was much worse off.

Plus, we need dog food and glue.

[Kapaibro]

Getting back on topic, I will state at the risk of getting vilified, at the end of the day, they are just horses. I am not going to lose sleep over a horse turning an ankle. There are plenty of humans that was much worse off.

Plus, we need dog food and glue.

Not villifying you, but with horses like Barbaro and Eight Belles, the owners are looking at millions of lost revenue via breeding.

With Thoroughbred racing it is illegal to use artificial insemenation, so the 20 odd years of Stud work that Barbaro was looking at (at about $100,000+ a pop) equals a lot of cash.

[claymore]

Not villifying you, but with horses like Barbaro and Eight Belles, the owners are looking at millions of lost revenue via breeding.

With Thoroughbred racing it is illegal to use artificial insemenation, so the 20 odd years of Stud work that Barbaro was looking at (at about $100,000+ a pop) equals a lot of cash.
Glad you see it from the breeders standpoint. There is allot of horse weirdo's out there. Not that I wish this on any animal.

[BeefStew25]

Not villifying you, but with horses like Barbaro and Eight Belles, the owners are looking at millions of lost revenue via breeding.

With Thoroughbred racing it is illegal to use artificial insemenation, so the 20 odd years of Stud work that Barbaro was looking at (at about $100,000+ a pop) equals a lot of cash.

Plus watching the horses mate is amazing in my opinion.

[Rex]

What does the media have anything to do with this?

Because it will be overblown 10,000x because it happened on the biggest stage on national TV. They dont pay attention to the fact that it happens every day on tracks all across the world or like was mentioned, off the track everyday. Rush Limbaugh is correct when he calls them the drive by media. They are showing it every 30 min now on CNN and just drawing more and more negative attention and ire toward horse racing by uninformed judgmental people....just like everything else.

[Kapaibro]

Glad you see it from the breeders standpoint. There is allot of horse weirdo's out there. Not that I wish this on any animal.

The thing is horses are genetically designed to spend the majority of their life on their feet.

You could see that Eight Belles was trying to stand up, despite the pain that she was in. This is a biological imperative. Their bodies can not tolerate extended periods lying down, and their hooves contract laminitis(degenerative disease which literally eats the hoof wall) if excess weight is placed on the uninjured hooves.

This is why horses are almost always euthanised when they break something.

We had a horse who after his flat racing career was coming to an end, we got him into jumping(which he loved). His first race (which he came second in) saw another horse fall in front of him, and clip his front tendons with its hooves. Thanks to my mother spending over $300 on Italian jumping boots, the tendons weren't slashed, but were damaged suffciently to end his racing career. Thankfully he did not have to be euthanised, but he could never race again, or jump.

[claymore]

The thing is horses are genetically designed to spend the majority of their life on their feet.

You could see that Eight Belles was trying to stand up, despite the pain that she was in. This is a biological imperative. Their bodies can not tolerate extended periods lying down, and their hooves contract laminitis(degenerative disease which literally eats the hoof wall) if excess weight is placed on the uninjured hooves.

This is why horses are almost always euthanised when they break something.

We had a horse who after his flat racing career was coming to an end, we got him into jumping(which he loved). His first race (which he came second in) saw another horse fall in front of him, and clip his front tendons with its hooves. Thanks to my mother spending over $300 on Italian jumping boots, the tendons weren't slashed, but were damaged suffciently to end his racing career. Thankfully he did not have to be euthanised, but he could never race again, or jump.
Yeah, I had to shoot a horse when I was a kid. He broke his leg while I was hunting. I was so far up in the mountains, that there was nothing else that could be done. Let him eat all the grain I had, and then put him down. I havent been on a horse since.

[Superchop 7]

To re-iterate,

I think it is highly likely (due to two ankle breaks) that the geometry of the hoof was set up for a longer stride. (more likely than freak accident)

The media, is the media, I just wonder how long it will be before they actually do some responsible investigating. (Is everything these days simply sensationalism ?)

I can ask the same question of PETA. (I better "not" get started about their viewpoint)

To those that like horses I salute you.

To those that don't, there's always the Raiders.

[Kapaibro]

Fricking PETA are idiots.

These are the same people who think people shouldn't have pets, and purebred dogs should all be euthanised as they are abominations against nature.

I had some PETA idiot harrass me for wearing fur in London.
I pointed out that I was wearing the fur of an introduced pest from NZ, that destroyed native flora and fauna, and that by supporting the possum fur trade I was protecting the environment. She shut up pretty quick when confronted with her idiocy!

[topscribe]

Not villifying you, but with horses like Barbaro and Eight Belles, the owners are looking at millions of lost revenue via breeding.

With Thoroughbred racing it is illegal to use artificial insemenation, so the 20 odd years of Stud work that Barbaro was looking at (at about $100,000+ a pop) equals a lot of cash.

Well, that goes with the territory.

I'm with Beef on this: I'm concerned about humans, not horses or the finances or fame thereof . . .

-----

[Lonestar]

Fricking PETA are idiots.

These are the same people who think people shouldn't have pets, and purebred dogs should all be euthanised as they are abominations against nature.

I had some PETA idiot harrass me for wearing fur in London.
I pointed out that I was wearing the fur of an introduced pest from NZ, that destroyed native flora and fauna, and that by supporting the possum fur trade I was protecting the environment. She shut up pretty quick when confronted with her idiocy!



most of the fringe groups are idiots..

zealots that have talking points, once your off the reservation they rarely know how to respond..

[Davii]

Not villifying you, but with horses like Barbaro and Eight Belles, the owners are looking at millions of lost revenue via breeding.

With Thoroughbred racing it is illegal to use artificial insemenation, so the 20 odd years of Stud work that Barbaro was looking at (at about $100,000+ a pop) equals a lot of cash.

Wow. I had no idea they got that kind of stud fee, that's definitely a huge revenue loss for the breeder.

To think all this time i've been offering stud service for nothing more than dinner. I should've been born a horse. :tsk:

[BeefStew25]

Wow. I had no idea they got that kind of stud fee, that's definitely a huge revenue loss for the breeder.

To think all this time i've been offering stud service for nothing more than dinner. I should've been born a horse. :tsk:

Your kids are scattered across this fine land, that much is true.

[Kapaibro]

Wow. I had no idea they got that kind of stud fee, that's definitely a huge revenue loss for the breeder.

To think all this time i've been offering stud service for nothing more than dinner. I should've been born a horse. :tsk:

Here's an idea of fees:

Top Stallion in NZ/Australia - Zabeel (sired 3 Melbourne Cup winners, including Octagonal, one of Australia's top sires) gets $100,000 NZD per mare.
For him the fee is that LOW because the owner wants to make him affordable for NZ buyers.
You may not pay much for a service, but the mares are selected very carefully, and there is a minimum number of NZ mares. And then the foals go for at least $300,000 NZD as yearlings(without even racing, or knowing if they can race!)
Zabeel (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zabeel)

Storm Cat in the US gets $300,000USD

Rock of Gibraltar who stands at Coolmore in Ireland(and shuttles to Australia) has a private price tag, but rumours have it at about £200,000 ($400K USD)
Rock Of Gibraltar (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rock_of_Gibraltar_%28horse%29)

[Lonestar]

Here's an idea of fees:

Top Stallion in NZ/Australia - Zabeel (sired 3 Melbourne Cup winners, including Octagonal, one of Australia's top sires) gets $100,000 NZD per mare.
For him the fee is that LOW because the owner wants to make him affordable for NZ buyers.
You may not pay much for a service, but the mares are selected very carefully, and there is a minimum number of NZ mares. And then the foals go for at least $300,000 NZD as yearlings(without even racing, or knowing if they can race!)
Zabeel (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zabeel)

Storm Cat in the US gets $300,000USD

Rock of Gibraltar who stands at Coolmore in Ireland(and shuttles to Australia) has a private price tag, but rumours have it at about £200,000 ($400K USD)
Rock Of Gibraltar (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rock_of_Gibraltar_%28horse%29)

MY brother is a rancher and breeds a specialty bovine and some of the really good bull sperm goes for 1k per straw. Some of the national champions 5-6 times that.. year after year after year..

Rarely are those winning bulls at the stock show wind up at Micky D's..

Some of those horse studs live a life of luxury.. The momentary prizes are incidental to what they make after retirement..

[Broncospsycho77]

Horses are a booming business. Just look at the ranches in Dubai and Saudi Arabia. They have thousand-acre ranches devoted to breeding racehorses and selling them to trainers and investors looking for a trophy. Quite frankly, quality racehorses are expendable now; the ones that win the events nowadays are truly the best of the best.

[Superchop 7]

Tidbits


Ummm, these horses are "insured". (Eight Belles owner still gets paid, this is why they elongate the toe for a longer stride, risking injury is no risk to anyone but the horse.)

Although they did great work with Big Brown, (ask a farrier), I don't agree with running him again in two weeks.

Hollywood Park (OK, the girl that has to write up the injury paperwork) reports 75-80% less injuries since they went to an artificial surface.

What Peta needs to get a grasp on is that whipping is "also" used to keep horses from colliding. (Yeah, he didn't need to whip her when it was obvious she wasn't going to win)

Since PETA members don't come from "the reservation" and I do, I will assume you are a racist. (JRWIZ)

[Kapaibro]

Blah, you need to stop assuming that every horse has their hooves trimmed or their shoes weighted.

Sometimes horses do have longer strides, and sometimes horses do break bones.

Your assumption that Eight Belles and Big Brown were both weighted is as bad as PETA's assumption that the jockey is to blame, and the mainstream media's assumption that horse racing is a vile and evil sport.

Give it a break.

[Superchop 7]

Blah, you need to stop assuming that every horse has their hooves trimmed or their shoes weighted.

Sometimes horses do have longer strides, and sometimes horses do break bones.

Your assumption that Eight Belles and Big Brown were both weighted is as bad as PETA's assumption that the jockey is to blame, and the mainstream media's assumption that horse racing is a vile and evil sport.

Give it a break.

__________________________________________________ _______________________________

I'll say what I want, when I want, thank-you.

I guess the truth "horses are insured" and therefore "expendable" hit a nerve,..... so be it,...... it's the truth.

Talk with your farrier, then get back to me.

[Kapaibro]

__________________________________________________ _______________________________

I'll say what I want, when I want, thank-you.

I guess the truth "horses are insured" and therefore "expendable" hit a nerve,..... so be it,...... it's the truth.

Talk with your farrier, then get back to me.

The insurance thing didn't hit a nerve. And it breaks my heart to see any horse hurt, I can't even watch film scenes where horses are 'hurt'.

As someone who has been involved in one way or another with racehorses for over 30 years, and also riding ponies and horses in my childhood, I am well aware of the sorts of things farriers can do to assist a horses gait.

I was merely pointing out that your statements are as inflammatory as those of the media you are lambasting.

As I said, MAYBE there was shaping of the hoof, or shoe weighting, but you have no proof, therefore you should perhaps rein in your assumptions.

[Davii]

I don't really watch a lot of tv when there isn't any football on. I put on the news last night and was pretty amazed to see just how much attention the media is actually paying to this.

Ridiculous!

I felt a little bad for the jockey though, the interview he gave he was almost crying.

[CoachChaz]

I don't really watch a lot of tv when there isn't any football on. I put on the news last night and was pretty amazed to see just how much attention the media is actually paying to this.

Ridiculous!

I felt a little bad for the jockey though, the interview he gave he was almost crying.

You should have seen the trainer...he was a mess.

[Superchop 7]

Kapi,

I have as much love as you for horses.

I know just as much as you.

Truth is, lines have been crossed for years.

And you know it.